I'm going to test the Copter in my build, I think it is at least a sideboard creature. I would absolutely play it over Bygone Bishop for instance.
On another note, I think we'll have to worry about Chandra's Pyrohelix... do you guys think this card will make an appearance as a board card?
Always watching is a must play with spirits.
Always watching is completely dependant on the build. Aggro spirits was a thing in the old meta, but they aren't as strong as other aggro deck options now that we've literally entered the world of aggro with the power ups available. Heck, spirits wasn't really competitive in the meta thanks to Bant company, which thankfully has rotated so other decks now have a chance to breath. My suggestion is definitely play more towards mid-control and take advantage of all the new tech we get from white and blue.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Thought I'd also pop in to clarify a few things on my standpoint with spirits. I think spirits is going to be one of the big decks going forward because it's well established and has gained more than it has lost from the rotation compared to other decks. The challenge is just figuring out how to sideboard and play against the new field of decks going forward.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm dubious. Well established second class deck doesn't mean it will do well going forward. Sure it didn't lose much, but I don't think it gained much either. I'm of the opinion a tempo deck is going to have some success, but it might not be heavy on spirits themselves.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
We gained very, very few cards, and nothing that can really replace Ojutai's Command or Clash of Wills. Smuggler's Copter is the best card we have gained; unfortunately, so has every other creature based deck. Green has gained a very strong flyer removal card in Take Down, Red still has Weaver of Lightning and Black still has Lili.
For the first few weeks, I think the two big decks will be BG Delirium and UR Fevered Visions, which are tough decks to beat. Linear aggro decks, from experience, are easy targets for us.
How do you guys feel about Smuggler's Copter as a good turn 2 play to be crewed by, say, Mausoleum Wanderer and adjust our hand a bit? I think it's a great card to pair with Always Watching too, since you get to choose if you draw-discard when you attack and or block.
I have the opposite question. How does a spirit deck deal with Smuggler's Copter?
How do you guys feel about Smuggler's Copter as a good turn 2 play to be crewed by, say, Mausoleum Wanderer and adjust our hand a bit? I think it's a great card to pair with Always Watching too, since you get to choose if you draw-discard when you attack and or block.
I have the opposite question. How does a spirit deck deal with Smuggler's Copter?
Evil is boring. The universe is friendly. Life is on your side. Joy is your birthright. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is a bad habit. Despair is lazy. In fact, all of creation wants you to succeed. Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to be. . . Life always gives you exactly what you need, exactly when you need it.
Thought I'd also pop in to clarify a few things on my standpoint with spirits. I think spirits is going to be one of the big decks going forward because it's well established and has gained more than it has lost from the rotation compared to other decks. The challenge is just figuring out how to sideboard and play against the new field of decks going forward.
I want to agree, but I also think that we'll have to splash to get to the top. Like going Jeskai for removal.
Question for you Spirits deckbuilders, is anyone considering running Elder Deep-Fiend? I figure any turn 3 creature followed by him on their turn, ostensibly holding spell queller, flash spirits, countermagic, essence flux, they'll play around, but then you sacrifice the creature at the end of their turn and tap them out, start your turn you untap holding whatever you have to defend it and just attack for five four turns in a row.
This is what I'm thinking anyway, possibly the best turn 4 spirits has.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
Question for you Spirits deckbuilders, is anyone considering running Elder Deep-Fiend? I figure any turn 3 creature followed by him on their turn, ostensibly holding spell queller, flash spirits, countermagic, essence flux, they'll play around, but then you sacrifice the creature at the end of their turn and tap them out, start your turn you untap holding whatever you have to defend it and just attack for five four turns in a row.
This is what I'm thinking anyway, possibly the best turn 4 spirits has.
That question is largely dependant on the kind of spirits build someone is doing. There's basically two builds of spirits with the first being a more aggressive mid-range tempo deck and the later being more mid-range / control. The build that uses Elder Deep-Fiend is the aggressive build. I personally play a more control oriented build now that makes use of Archangel Avacyn and Stasis Snare as the primary forms of removal, since both myself and seemingly Todd Stevens at SCG came to the same conclusion that Stasis Snare is bonkers good (It stops Emrakul, the promised End at instant speed).
I've play tested with it in old standard and found it not to my liking, but others might have more experience than I do with it. Personally, I sort of want to test Metallurgic Summonings to see how much abuse I can get out of it late game. One problem the deck has is that it doesn't have a lot of creatures to work with and late game things get rough against other mid-range decks. Landing that turn 5 and casting 4 cmc spells can be a pretty potent combo. Unfortunately, Stasis Snare is a non-bo with it.
However, for card draw options I like Glimmer of Genius more than Smuggler's Copter in the spirits deck. I feel like BR makes the best use of copter since it can recur the threats discarded by copter or make use of the discard effect via madness synergy. I also like the idea of having sideboard Confiscation Coup as the ultimate in removal action for "Going big" strategies, since we can steal things like Verdurous Gearhulk or a Skysovereign, Consul Flagship quite easily with 6 energy. Even if we don't hit 6 we can still use it to steal a key piece such as Aetherworks Marvel.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Opponents were B/G Delirium, RG Werewolves, Mono U artifacts, U/W Midrange Flicker, BR Aggro (Swiss and Finals)
Main points to get across is that you should be playing 4 Smuggler's Copters. Unsubstantiate was awesome all night. The deck is difficult to pilot, but I feel if you make the correct plays and sideboard choices, every match is winnable.
Opponents were B/G Delirium, RG Werewolves, Mono U artifacts, U/W Midrange Flicker, BR Aggro (Swiss and Finals)
Main points to get across is that you should be playing 4 Smuggler's Copters. Unsubstantiate was awesome all night. The deck is difficult to pilot, but I feel if you make the correct plays and sideboard choices, every match is winnable.
What was your list?
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Opponents were B/G Delirium, RG Werewolves, Mono U artifacts, U/W Midrange Flicker, BR Aggro (Swiss and Finals)
Main points to get across is that you should be playing 4 Smuggler's Copters. Unsubstantiate was awesome all night. The deck is difficult to pilot, but I feel if you make the correct plays and sideboard choices, every match is winnable.
Yeah, I'd love to see it if you got it up. I'm not going to be able to do FNM for a bit until all my cards arrive from TCGPlayer, so I'll be sitting pretty for a bit, quietly plotting Aether Meltdown, Glimmer of Genius, Confiscation Coup hilarity.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I went 4-0 at my local FNM, never dropping a single game. The stars had to be Smuggler's Copter and the single Stitcher's Graft. That last one made all my spirits relevant and hard to kill, even Topplegeist. A Mausoleum Wanderer equipped with it meant the control deck I faced was unable to ever land a Fumigate. Here's the decklist, and a more detailed report is available on tappedout:
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't know if it's worth it messing with the mana base just to play harnessed lightening. If it could deal da,age to players as well maybe, but just creatures...meh. The point is that he wants to play glimmer of genius, because scary two draw two at instant is good, but then he has 2 energies "wasted". So he's playing harnessed lightening just to do something with those energies...I'm not sure if it's enough to justify it.
On the other hand I've tested a bit with smuggler copter and it's great!
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I don't know if it's worth it messing with the mana base just to play harnessed lightening. If it could deal da,age to players as well maybe, but just creatures...meh. The point is that he wants to play glimmer of genius, because scary two draw two at instant is good, but then he has 2 energies "wasted". So he's playing harnessed lightening just to do something with those energies...I'm not sure if it's enough to justify it.
On the other hand I've tested a bit with smuggler copter and it's great!
Yeah, smugglers seems pretty good and I'm playing with the idea of using Confiscation Coup in some match ups to steal the enemy bomb if the game goes too long. It's an interesting play to steal someones Verdurous Gearhulk, but I really wish it wasn't bound by energy costs.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yes! Both. I think it's great favoring removal. American Spirit is a great deck name too (I'm not from the States)
Ha, yeah the name just sort of came to me. I'm wanting to build it since I only lack the requisite Fumuroles and probably the new UR fast land. The rest I probably own already thanks to having cards pre-ordered for WR vehicles and burn.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What about fevered visions? Seems like it would give the deck much needed card draw. The additional damage would also help with a faster clock ? Or is smugglers copter just better here. It's odd stretching the mana base for one card and a man land. Unless the board has other red spells, I'm not sold just yet on the splash.
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Always watching is completely dependant on the build. Aggro spirits was a thing in the old meta, but they aren't as strong as other aggro deck options now that we've literally entered the world of aggro with the power ups available. Heck, spirits wasn't really competitive in the meta thanks to Bant company, which thankfully has rotated so other decks now have a chance to breath. My suggestion is definitely play more towards mid-control and take advantage of all the new tech we get from white and blue.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
For the first few weeks, I think the two big decks will be BG Delirium and UR Fevered Visions, which are tough decks to beat. Linear aggro decks, from experience, are easy targets for us.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
I have the opposite question. How does a spirit deck deal with Smuggler's Copter?
Always Watching, Stasis Snare, Skywhaler's Shot, Thalia...
I want to agree, but I also think that we'll have to splash to get to the top. Like going Jeskai for removal.
CREATURES (17)
4 Archangel Avacyn
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
1 Torrential Gearhulk
SPELLS (17)
4 Glimmer Of Genius
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Revolutionary Rebuff
2 Fumigate
4 Stasis Snare
LAND (26)
3 Aether Hub
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Plains
1 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
4 Wandering Fumarole
That's one option^
This is what I'm thinking anyway, possibly the best turn 4 spirits has.
That question is largely dependant on the kind of spirits build someone is doing. There's basically two builds of spirits with the first being a more aggressive mid-range tempo deck and the later being more mid-range / control. The build that uses Elder Deep-Fiend is the aggressive build. I personally play a more control oriented build now that makes use of Archangel Avacyn and Stasis Snare as the primary forms of removal, since both myself and seemingly Todd Stevens at SCG came to the same conclusion that Stasis Snare is bonkers good (It stops Emrakul, the promised End at instant speed).
I've play tested with it in old standard and found it not to my liking, but others might have more experience than I do with it. Personally, I sort of want to test Metallurgic Summonings to see how much abuse I can get out of it late game. One problem the deck has is that it doesn't have a lot of creatures to work with and late game things get rough against other mid-range decks. Landing that turn 5 and casting 4 cmc spells can be a pretty potent combo. Unfortunately, Stasis Snare is a non-bo with it.
However, for card draw options I like Glimmer of Genius more than Smuggler's Copter in the spirits deck. I feel like BR makes the best use of copter since it can recur the threats discarded by copter or make use of the discard effect via madness synergy. I also like the idea of having sideboard Confiscation Coup as the ultimate in removal action for "Going big" strategies, since we can steal things like Verdurous Gearhulk or a Skysovereign, Consul Flagship quite easily with 6 energy. Even if we don't hit 6 we can still use it to steal a key piece such as Aetherworks Marvel.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Opponents were B/G Delirium, RG Werewolves, Mono U artifacts, U/W Midrange Flicker, BR Aggro (Swiss and Finals)
Main points to get across is that you should be playing 4 Smuggler's Copters. Unsubstantiate was awesome all night. The deck is difficult to pilot, but I feel if you make the correct plays and sideboard choices, every match is winnable.
What was your list?
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Yeah, I'd love to see it if you got it up. I'm not going to be able to do FNM for a bit until all my cards arrive from TCGPlayer, so I'll be sitting pretty for a bit, quietly plotting Aether Meltdown, Glimmer of Genius, Confiscation Coup hilarity.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4x Rattlechains
4x Selfless Spirits
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Spell Queller
4x Reflector Mage
3x Nebelhelm Ghast
4x Essence Flux
4x Unsubstantiate
3x Always Watching
22 Lands
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream
7x Island
7x Plains
Sideboard
4x Negate
4x Declaration in Stone
2x Repel the Abominable
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Collective Effort
2x Archangel Avacyn
2x Bygone Bishop
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Nebelgast Herald
4x Rattlechains
2x Reflector Mage
4x Selfless Spirit
4x Spell Queller
2x Topplegeist
6x Island
9x Plains
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream
Artifact (3)
2x Smuggler's Copter
1x Stitcher's Graft
Instant (2)
2x Essence Flux
Enchantment (2)
2x Always Watching
Sorcery (2)
2x Declaration in Stone
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Fragmentize
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4x Negate
2x Planar Outburst
2x Summary Dismissal
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Jeff is 6-0 right now and SCG Indianapolis with jeskai flash which is basically Spirits + Harnessed Lightning.
I went 3-1 with UW Spirits last night, my list:
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirits
4 Spell Queller
3 Archangel Avacyn
4 Stasis Snare
2 Fumigate
4 Revolutionary Rebuff
4 Anticipate
For matches against eneRGy I subbed in 3 Nebelgast Herald for 1 Selfless Spirits, 1 Mausoleum Wanderer and 1 Anticipate. The only defeat was against Jund Delirium.
Modern: UW Spirits
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
On the other hand I've tested a bit with smuggler copter and it's great!
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Yeah, smugglers seems pretty good and I'm playing with the idea of using Confiscation Coup in some match ups to steal the enemy bomb if the game goes too long. It's an interesting play to steal someones Verdurous Gearhulk, but I really wish it wasn't bound by energy costs.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yes! Both. I think it's great favoring removal. American Spirit is a great deck name too (I'm not from the States)
Ha, yeah the name just sort of came to me. I'm wanting to build it since I only lack the requisite Fumuroles and probably the new UR fast land. The rest I probably own already thanks to having cards pre-ordered for WR vehicles and burn.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern: UW Spirits