1) 2-1 Against Grixis Burn
2) 2-0 Against B/R Control
3) 2-0 Against R/B Aggro
Overall the deck did pretty well, i never boarded out Torrential Gearhulk because the card IS the deck. I was not impressed that much with Dead Weight, might cut 1 and replace it with maybe Deadlock Trap.
I'v been considering the 3/1 Gearhulk split as well, so good to know that you like it. I may try it the next outing. I've also been back and forward with Trap, so I may slide that it over my third Anticipate. Gonti is also an interesting one. I have one right now, but I think I see it as an alternative win-con. Like most of the decks in this thread, I am wanting to stay very reactive, with the draw-go mentality. Maybe I'll try to get a second and put them in the side as alternatives.
Do you (or anyone else here) ever side out the Gearhulks for any matchups?
EDIT: No consideration of Mind's Dilation for control mirrors? If they try to cast anything to counter, draw or remove our stuff, then there's a chance that we could reveal a counter off their own library, or get draw spells, etc... Or better yet, reveal one of their walkers or Gearhulks.
I think Metalurgic Summonings is the better card in the context of an enchantment that generates value over time and it's difficult to answer. It's cheaper (5 is a lot less than 7) and you play around your cards, not your opponents.
Grats on the 3-0 run, yeah I'd have to agree, metallurgic is a better option than minds dilation since you always get value of the instans and sorceries that you play in reaction to an opponent playing something.
Was watching protour kld a while ago and was watching shota yasooka's match. He was piloting a grixis control deck which main boarded ceremonius rejection, negate, and thing in the ice. He won against a metalwork colossus deck in 3 games and I think for the meta he made a good decision running those cards, miht be something we want to look into as well moving forward, since aggro seems to be everywhere and the two counterspells does answer many problem cards in the format.
If you guys are interested, i think there's a list of his deck floating around at the mtg fish site, but its still a guess as to the other components at this time.
1) 2-1 Against Grixis Burn
2) 2-0 Against B/R Control
3) 2-0 Against R/B Aggro
Overall the deck did pretty well, i never boarded out Torrential Gearhulk because the card IS the deck. I was not impressed that much with Dead Weight, might cut 1 and replace it with maybe Deadlock Trap.
I'v been considering the 3/1 Gearhulk split as well, so good to know that you like it. I may try it the next outing. I've also been back and forward with Trap, so I may slide that it over my third Anticipate. Gonti is also an interesting one. I have one right now, but I think I see it as an alternative win-con. Like most of the decks in this thread, I am wanting to stay very reactive, with the draw-go mentality. Maybe I'll try to get a second and put them in the side as alternatives.
Do you (or anyone else here) ever side out the Gearhulks for any matchups?
EDIT: No consideration of Mind's Dilation for control mirrors? If they try to cast anything to counter, draw or remove our stuff, then there's a chance that we could reveal a counter off their own library, or get draw spells, etc... Or better yet, reveal one of their walkers or Gearhulks.
I think Metalurgic Summonings is the better card in the context of an enchantment that generates value over time and it's difficult to answer. It's cheaper (5 is a lot less than 7) and you play around your cards, not your opponents.
Grats on the 3-0 run, yeah I'd have to agree, metallurgic is a better option than minds dilation since you always get value of the instans and sorceries that you play in reaction to an opponent playing something.
Was watching protour kld a while ago and was watching shota yasooka's match. He was piloting a grixis control deck which main boarded ceremonius rejection, negate, and thing in the ice. He won against a metalwork colossus deck in 3 games and I think for the meta he made a good decision running those cards, miht be something we want to look into as well moving forward, since aggro seems to be everywhere and the two counterspells does answer many problem cards in the format.
If you guys are interested, i think there's a list of his deck floating around at the mtg fish site, but its still a guess as to the other components at this time.
Shota Yasooka's deck is sick and it's core is pretty similar to what we have built so far. I think going grixis might be the right decision, i tried to stay at 2 colours, but getting acces to manlands (Wandering Fumarole), more efficient removal ( Galvanic Bombardment and Harnessed Lightning) because Grasp of Darkness is our only 2 mana removal in UB (i don't count Aether Meltdown), and more sideboard options such as Weaver of Lightning and Fevered Visions might push the deck even further to achieve a top tier position.
I tried to avoid creatures that could get destroyed easily with the standard removal of the meta, but right now only Grasp of Darkness is able to answer Thing in the ice without any extra help, and as we know, it's great against aggro, so it might be a pretty decent main deck option right now. Shota's deck is URb though(Black splash), so we lose easy acces to Liliana, the Last Hope, Ruinous Path, etc.
We shall wait and see what the pro tour teaches us so we can polish UBx Control even more. (still not sure about the "x", i'd like to keep only 2 colours if i can).
Oh harnessed lightning can kill bthing in the ice, believe me i've seen people stock up on energy just to bolt a gearhulk to cinders haha. Seems he really did go with 4 copies of thing in the main, which would leave bout 2-3 copies of torrential perhaps. I'm sure we can find a way to slip in copies of liliana in there haha
Another option is saheeli to copy gearhulks but then again i'm not 100% sure how something like that will go. Hehe can't wait to see the results of the protour. Rolfcopter might not be the real star of the set alfter all
Oh harnessed lightning can kill bthing in the ice, believe me i've seen people stock up on energy just to bolt a gearhulk to cinders haha. Seems he really did go with 4 copies of thing in the main, which would leave bout 2-3 copies of torrential perhaps. I'm sure we can find a way to slip in copies of liliana in there haha
Another option is saheeli to copy gearhulks but then again i'm not 100% sure how something like that will go. Hehe can't wait to see the results of the protour. Rolfcopter might not be the real star of the set alfter all
With "extra" help i meant Aether Hub and other energy producer cards (including Harnessed Lightning itself), but the real upside is that Thing in the ice won't be killed on curve most of the time, and that extra turn or two it gives us might be enough to control our opponent and win the game (obviously if it goes unanswered we will win with it eventually). I'm not sure how the manabase of Shota's deck is so i don't know if Liliana, the Last Hope is playable (we need to be able to play her turn 3). Saheeli Rai is a bad card in my opinion, i would not waste a card slot with her.
Oh harnessed lightning can kill bthing in the ice, believe me i've seen people stock up on energy just to bolt a gearhulk to cinders haha. Seems he really did go with 4 copies of thing in the main, which would leave bout 2-3 copies of torrential perhaps. I'm sure we can find a way to slip in copies of liliana in there haha
Another option is saheeli to copy gearhulks but then again i'm not 100% sure how something like that will go. Hehe can't wait to see the results of the protour. Rolfcopter might not be the real star of the set alfter all
With "extra" help i meant Aether Hub and other energy producer cards (including Harnessed Lightning itself), but the real upside is that Thing in the ice won't be killed on curve most of the time, and that extra turn or two it gives us might be enough to control our opponent and win the game (obviously if it goes unanswered we will win with it eventually). I'm not sure how the manabase of Shota's deck is so i don't know if Liliana, the Last Hope is playable (we need to be able to play her turn 3). Saheeli Rai is a bad card in my opinion, i would not waste a card slot with her.
Okay so shota's deck has been spoiled and I got to say it's on the budget friendly side. His mana base isn't greedy at all. No aether hubs, just evolving wilds for mana fixing. It really leans tiwards blue and red, with 3 smoldering marsh and 4 sunken hollow. I must admit I really like it. As for walkers its just 1 Jace and 1 in the side, so it's really budget friendly.
Yeah I think this kinda deck ain't what sahili is meant for haha
I'm at a point where Shota's grixis list is attractive because of the much lower curve. I'm leaning more towards going with grixis; even if that means losing easy access to Liliana. ( )
I think the most attractive aspect of going Grixis or Jeskai is having acces to Wandering Fumarole and/or Needle Spires and the Harnessed Lightning + Glimmer of Genius "combo". I still think that the U/B Control list is viable and strong but probably one step behind Grixis Control and Jeskai Control. I think i'll try how U/B stands against them first, i actually think we might have a better matchup against these other control builds thanks to Transgress the Mind and Liliana, the Last Hope, and we are fine against the other decks of the kaladesh meta. We can also put Thing in the Ice in the maindeck and get an even better matchup against aggro, probably moving Transgress the Mind to the sideboard to open some slots. Thing in the Ice won't be as effective as in the grixis list, just because it has a lower curve (maybe it's not even right to put it in the deck at all).
PD1: Ceremonious Rejection might push Scatter to the Winds above Void Shatter, even though the exile effect of the card is so relevant in the current meta, we might need to make the replacement if we start getting flooded with the one mana counter.
so Shota Yasooka just won the PTKLD with his grixis control against a jeskai control. I watched the matches and it was absolutely a "draw-go" game and more on waiting for one big counter battle. Just some observations.
If more people are gonna adopt the void shatter over scatter to the winds, the I think we really do need to consider ceremonious rejection main as it now serves as a utility counter spell which hits opposing torrential gearhulk (which is about to break the $40 barrier) and other problematic artifacts such as copters, marvel works and even colossi.
Jace, unraveller of secrets vs. Ob nixilis, reignited: It's not that the manabase can't support double black planeswalkers, it's more of a utility choice I think. jace can bounce enemy creatures to clear the way or he can bounce back torrential gearhulk to recast something in the graveyard. this also holds true for the 4 thing in the ice in the main. it's a psuedo board sweeper, demands an answer unless the opponent is risking a very fast clock, and it bounces back torrential gearhulk back to our hand.
About Liliana, the last hope: I must say this card is a pet peeve of mine, so I try to incorporate it to any control deck I use for the utility late game or the possible ultimate at the beginning. that being said the list might not really be conducive to her, but I'll still be using her in place of a third copy of anticipate
As for the sideboard I understand weaver of lightning is at times a 2 for 1 deal against tiny critters, but with all the removal the deck is packing I think we can use these 3 spots for other things.
Still no Kalitas, traitor to ghet in a field full of aggro, I must say I'm very happy to see such a deck brew from one of the best control players.
So, Grixis took down the PT, with Jeskai coming in second, awesome day for control players!
My take aways from Shota's deck:
I love how he identified that the meta was aggressive, and he planned for it with a super cheap mana curve: only 5 copies of spells with cmc 4 or bigger! Not only does this help starting to play 2 spells a turn, but it also helps flip thing in the ice, which acts like a sweeper/wincon. He gives up alot of power by not having more gearhulks, glimmers, and other expensive spells, but the takeaway is that sometimes a low mana curve is better than raw power.
At least in this standard, control decks can deal with Walkers by attacking. Who needs a cluncky sorcery speed removal spell when you can bash in with a 5/6 or a 7/8? This result probably puts to bed the whole "to ruinous path or not ruinous path discussion". Shota played vs many Gideons this tournaments, and attackign them seems like a legit plan (burning them with unlicensed disintegration ia reasonable plan b, but its plan b, not a)
I think this deck was a great meta call, but will the meta for the upcoming GP remain stable? If people expect more marvel combo, they'll present more control lists (specially now that control proved itself), and that means less vehicle aggro (especially if those control lists have galvanic bombardments and harnessed lightnings). Is shota's deck really a favorite in the control mirror? He did win the finals, but that might be due to him being a fantastic pilot, not so much about the deck being favoured.
That Jeskai deck felt favored IMO. It has as many counters and more powerful cards but Carlos never forced Shota into a fight, it was always Shota who initiated the fight when he was ready for a good exchange. THeir were times when Carlos had favorable positions but he never took a shot like Shota did. I think he just got outplayed.
Almost won the game day today: (was a short tournament though)
4-0 to get to the top 4:
- 2-0 Against a W/R Control
- 2-1 Against R/B Aggro
- 2-0 Against Collosus Deck
- 2-1 Against W/R Vehicles
Semifinal:
- 2-0 Against R/B Aggro
Final:
- 0-2 Against W/R Vehicles (Double mana screw, always unlucky BabyRage)
Good Thing: opened a Sol Ring in my 2nd place prize boosters.
Did some small updates to the deck:
- Maindeck: Remains the same.
- Sideboard: one Flaying Tendrils out, one more Negate in. The 4th Flaying Tendrils was too much (3 is the right amount); Negate is great right now so having acces to a third copy is pretty good.
- Thinking about going from 2 copies of Ob Nixilis Reignited to 1 in the maindeck, not sure if i want to remove it from the 75 and replace it with "new" card, or just replace it with a card from the sideboard and keep the second copy in the 75.
- moved 2 Flaying Tendrils to the maindeck replacing one copy of Liliana, The Last Hope (wich is removed from the 75) and one of Ob Nixilis Reignited (wich is replaced by Jace, Unraveler of Secrets in the sideboard). With the upcoming prevalence of W/U Flash and Mardu Vehicles Flaying Tendrils seems like a must main deck card at least as a one of so we can fight better against this aggro strategies, against Mardu Vehicles is an all star, it kills almost all of their creatures and it also exiles them (im looking at you Scrapheap Scrounger). Against W/U flash is not as good as VS Mardu Vehicles but it's a good card to have in situations when the opponents floods the board with their little creatures.
- the maindeck Ceremonious Rejection is moved to the sideboard, beign replaced by a 4th Anticipate. I feel that we need 4 copies of it, it finds the lands and answers we need in the early game wich is very important ina fast format like the one we have right now. Ceremonious Rejection maindeck is still a good option against vehicles but i feel it's less attractive because of the downfall of the Aetherwork Marvel and Colossus Decks getting out of the metagame and we already have decent options against vehicles, such as Negate, Grasp of Darkness and Murder in the maindeck. Also i'm keeping in the Void Shatter > Scatter to the Winds team, beacuse i think Ceremonious Rejection will descrease in amount the following weeks.
This is my first attempt at control. Traditionally I have been aggro. But thought it was time to broaden my horizon. Here is the list of I have been testing:
Harsh Scrutiny - Great at seeing the opponent's hand to set up your next plays and fixes your next draw.
Sphinx of the Final Word - This creature was chosen over Torrential Gearhulk for testing purposes. I want to make sure I like the deck before I invest. Liliana, is not budget either but I already had 2 of those. Flying and hexproof make Sphinx difficult to deal with.
Evolving wilds - becuase we scry to the bottom a lot, we can shuffle those cards back into the mix
After a lot of testing and playing tournaments i got to the following list:
- Removed Evolving Wilds for Submerged Boneyard, shuffling the deck is nice but better mana is better.
- Liliana, The Last Hope is one of the best cards in the current metagame and we need to play at least 3 copies in the maindeck.
- Replaced Ob Nixilis Reignited for Jace, Unraveler of Secrets.
- Modified the maindeck removal package to adjust as efficient as possible with the current metagame (this will probably change all the time), might 2-2 split Essence Extraction and Murder if we need more hard removal instead of the extra life (would require to remove the 4th copy of Essence Extraction from the 75).
- Added a 4th copy of Glimmer of Genius, this card makes the deck go rolling together with Anticipate so we want it as much as possible at turn 4 (had to remove one Ruinous Path from the 75 to make this change).
- Added Sphinx of The Final Word to the sideboard, it's the best trump card against all other blue control decks.
- Moves all 4 copies of Transgress the Mind to the sideboard, it's still good at maindeck but i think that i'd rather have other cards and board them in against matchups where they shine.
- Removed Ceremonious Rejection from the 75.
- Added the full 4 copies of Negate to the 75 (2 main 2 side), it's the best answer against planeswalker the aggro matchups board in and it's also great against Control and Combo matchups.
You have both stumbled onto the removal ratio of 4x Grasp of Darkness, 3x Essence Extraction, 1x Murder, and 2x Ruinous Path. Would you mind explaining what lead to this split? Obviously the grasps are an auto four-of. But I am very intrigued by the other ones, as Shaheen Soorani favours 3x Ruinous Path and 3x Murder maindeck, putting Essence Extraction in the board.
I like the addition of Dead Weight. I have tried Harsh Scrutiny in the 1-mana slot, with mostly decent results. Have you tried this card?
I have many other questions, as there are so many permutations to try, so many land configurations, and so many sideboard slots, but I will leave it here for now.
You have both stumbled onto the removal ratio of 4x Grasp of Darkness, 3x Essence Extraction, 1x Murder, and 2x Ruinous Path. Would you mind explaining what lead to this split? Obviously the grasps are an auto four-of. But I am very intrigued by the other ones, as Shaheen Soorani favours 3x Ruinous Path and 3x Murder maindeck, putting Essence Extraction in the board.
I like the addition of Dead Weight. I have tried Harsh Scrutiny in the 1-mana slot, with mostly decent results. Have you tried this card?
I have many other questions, as there are so many permutations to try, so many land configurations, and so many sideboard slots, but I will leave it here for now.
- I can see why he would use the 9th Swamp over the Blighted Fen, because in some matches having the Blighted Fen in the opening hand trolls out our mana a bit, but i still think it's worth having it in the deck (especially against Sphinx of The Final Word).
- The 1 of Revolutionary Rebuff sounds very good actually, i tried the card as a 4 of and it was terrible, but as a 1 of it might be very good in the maindeck (instead of 1 Dead Weight maybe).
- Grasp of Drakness is the only 2 cmc good black removal we have in the format, but i think it's not enough to battle the early game threats, so the 2 copies of Dead Weight are the way we have of interacting earlier in the game for cheap mana, later in the game it's decent enough killing relevant creatures as Selfless Spirit for just one mana and it can also kill 3 thoughnes creatures with Liliana, The Last Hope +1 and 5 thougness creatures with Essence Extraction.
- Honestly, the removal ratio depends very much on the metagame you are facing, and the current meta is currently W/U Flash, RW/Mardu Vehicles and GB Delirium. Essence Extraction is the best card against the RW/Mardu Vehicles, but i think Muder is better against WU Flash (Because of Archangel Avacyn) and GB Delirum, so in the end the split we use will depend in what decks you think you will be facing. That's why i was thinking of changing to a 2-2 split with Essence Extraction and Murder.
- I think the 3rd copy of Ruinous Path was not that good in the maindeck, especially because most decks in the current meta board planeswalkers instead of having them maindeck, so i'd rather board the 3rd copy later that having it in the maindeck (This might change if GB Delirium with 4 maindeck Liliana, The Last Hope becomes more prevalent, wich will probably happen). The 1 maindeck copy of Revolutionary Rebuff could be an answer to this issue though.
- I have not tried Harsh Scrutiny so i can't really tell if it's good enough. I think i prefer Dead Weight though.
So the first thing to see is that I'm using 25 lands over 26. I felt like I was getting flooded so much with 26 lands. With 25 lands I fell like I am still comfortably hitting them all on time, especially with the full four copies of Anticipate in the deck. Secondly, using the playset of Aether Hub and going down to two copies of Submerged Boneyard gives me untapped mana more regularly. Using these lands, you have the 20 black sources needed to cast Grasp of Darkness on turn 2, and the 19 blue sources needed to cast Void Shatter on turn 3. Now, obviously people are scared that they will run out of energy with Aether Hub. In addition to four copies of Glimmer of Genius, I have been combining it with two copies of Aether Meltdown, and I honestly can't remember the last game where powering the hub has been an issue for me. Speaking of Aether Meltdown, I feel like people are sleeping on this card. It has been an all-star in several situations for me. It actually stops a Scrapheap Scrounger or Prized Amalgam, whereas other removal will just delay them for a while. I know it has its downsides, but I would encourage you guys to give it a try as a 2-of or 3-of. Early interaction against aggro is obviously very important, and three mana removal spells can sometimes feel painfully slow. This one is cheap, and also helps power Aether Hub. I think it's at least worth a try.
im currently running this list for about 2 weeks now. so i need some opinion of my take on the ub control deck. im still getting myself familiar with this deck.
matchup wise, i have no trouble going against those control decks.
most of the time i had a 50-50 chance against aggro decks.
but i did badly against GB Delirium and zombies deck.
Creatures
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Thing In The Ice
Planes walker (4)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Sorcery (2)
2 Flaying Tendrils
Instant (20)
3 Anticipate
3 Murder
3 Grasp of Darkness
3 Scatter to the Winds
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Void Shatter
2 Negate
1 Summary Dismissal
Sideboard
3 Trangress The Mind
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Ruinous Path
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sphinx Of The Final Word
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Demon Of Dark Schemes
2 Essence Extraction
Respectful suggestion to all posters in this thread. Could we maybe try and merge this with the other, more generic, Esper/UB Control thread, and let this one fade off the page? There's no sense in running two threads for the same deck.
So the first thing to see is that I'm using 25 lands over 26. I felt like I was getting flooded so much with 26 lands. With 25 lands I fell like I am still comfortably hitting them all on time, especially with the full four copies of Anticipate in the deck. Secondly, using the playset of Aether Hub and going down to two copies of Submerged Boneyard gives me untapped mana more regularly. Using these lands, you have the 20 black sources needed to cast Grasp of Darkness on turn 2, and the 19 blue sources needed to cast Void Shatter on turn 3. Now, obviously people are scared that they will run out of energy with Aether Hub. In addition to four copies of Glimmer of Genius, I have been combining it with two copies of Aether Meltdown, and I honestly can't remember the last game where powering the hub has been an issue for me. Speaking of Aether Meltdown, I feel like people are sleeping on this card. It has been an all-star in several situations for me. It actually stops a Scrapheap Scrounger or Prized Amalgam, whereas other removal will just delay them for a while. I know it has its downsides, but I would encourage you guys to give it a try as a 2-of or 3-of. Early interaction against aggro is obviously very important, and three mana removal spells can sometimes feel painfully slow. This one is cheap, and also helps power Aether Hub. I think it's at least worth a try.
One friend of mine told me i could go down to 25 lands because of the 4 Anticipe maindeck , haven't tries this yet (busy days lately). Not sure about Aether Hub, it would require us to use Aether Meltdown wich i don't like very much (might be wrong). Honestly i would have to test with it to have a better opinion on this. The current land base i'm using has been working just fine so i don't know if changing it is necessary, the only change i might like to do would be moving to 25 lands maindeck.
I think that UB Control is going to be the next big thing in standard do to the number of the new powerful blue and black spells recently released on Kaladesh. With so many aggressive decks currently in standard this is the perfect deck against them. With Liliana, The Last Hope dominating in the current meta, you can easily take care of most aggressive decks out there by utilizing its +1 ability to take care most of their creatures. Essence Extraction is one of the best card for taking out those Smuggler's Copters. Lost Legacy is another great card for taking care of decks that utilize Ulrog and Emrakul, The Promised End. I am confident that this deck will be seen in the next tournament in standard.
UB control is already posting results (as well as Esper). That's why there's actually a thread in the Established Decks section of this forum for further discussions.
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Grats on the 3-0 run, yeah I'd have to agree, metallurgic is a better option than minds dilation since you always get value of the instans and sorceries that you play in reaction to an opponent playing something.
Was watching protour kld a while ago and was watching shota yasooka's match. He was piloting a grixis control deck which main boarded ceremonius rejection, negate, and thing in the ice. He won against a metalwork colossus deck in 3 games and I think for the meta he made a good decision running those cards, miht be something we want to look into as well moving forward, since aggro seems to be everywhere and the two counterspells does answer many problem cards in the format.
If you guys are interested, i think there's a list of his deck floating around at the mtg fish site, but its still a guess as to the other components at this time.
Shota Yasooka's deck is sick and it's core is pretty similar to what we have built so far. I think going grixis might be the right decision, i tried to stay at 2 colours, but getting acces to manlands (Wandering Fumarole), more efficient removal ( Galvanic Bombardment and Harnessed Lightning) because Grasp of Darkness is our only 2 mana removal in UB (i don't count Aether Meltdown), and more sideboard options such as Weaver of Lightning and Fevered Visions might push the deck even further to achieve a top tier position.
I tried to avoid creatures that could get destroyed easily with the standard removal of the meta, but right now only Grasp of Darkness is able to answer Thing in the ice without any extra help, and as we know, it's great against aggro, so it might be a pretty decent main deck option right now. Shota's deck is URb though(Black splash), so we lose easy acces to Liliana, the Last Hope, Ruinous Path, etc.
We shall wait and see what the pro tour teaches us so we can polish UBx Control even more. (still not sure about the "x", i'd like to keep only 2 colours if i can).
Another option is saheeli to copy gearhulks but then again i'm not 100% sure how something like that will go. Hehe can't wait to see the results of the protour. Rolfcopter might not be the real star of the set alfter all
With "extra" help i meant Aether Hub and other energy producer cards (including Harnessed Lightning itself), but the real upside is that Thing in the ice won't be killed on curve most of the time, and that extra turn or two it gives us might be enough to control our opponent and win the game (obviously if it goes unanswered we will win with it eventually). I'm not sure how the manabase of Shota's deck is so i don't know if Liliana, the Last Hope is playable (we need to be able to play her turn 3). Saheeli Rai is a bad card in my opinion, i would not waste a card slot with her.
Okay so shota's deck has been spoiled and I got to say it's on the budget friendly side. His mana base isn't greedy at all. No aether hubs, just evolving wilds for mana fixing. It really leans tiwards blue and red, with 3 smoldering marsh and 4 sunken hollow. I must admit I really like it. As for walkers its just 1 Jace and 1 in the side, so it's really budget friendly.
Yeah I think this kinda deck ain't what sahili is meant for haha
Anyone else in this position as well? Thoughts?
PD1: Ceremonious Rejection might push Scatter to the Winds above Void Shatter, even though the exile effect of the card is so relevant in the current meta, we might need to make the replacement if we start getting flooded with the one mana counter.
PD2: Made a small update to the current list.
- Moved one Transgress the Mind from the mainboard to the sideboard to put one more Anticipate in the mainboard.
- Removed both Dead Weight from the sideboard: one slot replaced by the Transgress the Mind moved to the sideboard, the other slot replaced by a 4th Flaying Tendrils.
- Removed Metallurgic Summonings, even though it has been great, at how control is shaping i think i'd prefer Ceremonious Rejection wich is so good in the current meta, also the maindeck Summary Dismissal will be moved to the sideboard for one of the copies of Ceremonious Rejection.
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Transgress the Mind
3 Anticipate
2 Negate
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
4 Void Shatter
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
3 Essence Extraction
4 Flaying Tendrils
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Ceremonious Rejection
If more people are gonna adopt the void shatter over scatter to the winds, the I think we really do need to consider ceremonious rejection main as it now serves as a utility counter spell which hits opposing torrential gearhulk (which is about to break the $40 barrier) and other problematic artifacts such as copters, marvel works and even colossi.
Jace, unraveller of secrets vs. Ob nixilis, reignited: It's not that the manabase can't support double black planeswalkers, it's more of a utility choice I think. jace can bounce enemy creatures to clear the way or he can bounce back torrential gearhulk to recast something in the graveyard. this also holds true for the 4 thing in the ice in the main. it's a psuedo board sweeper, demands an answer unless the opponent is risking a very fast clock, and it bounces back torrential gearhulk back to our hand.
About Liliana, the last hope: I must say this card is a pet peeve of mine, so I try to incorporate it to any control deck I use for the utility late game or the possible ultimate at the beginning. that being said the list might not really be conducive to her, but I'll still be using her in place of a third copy of anticipate
As for the sideboard I understand weaver of lightning is at times a 2 for 1 deal against tiny critters, but with all the removal the deck is packing I think we can use these 3 spots for other things.
Still no Kalitas, traitor to ghet in a field full of aggro, I must say I'm very happy to see such a deck brew from one of the best control players.
We should probably get an admin to merge the threads, if at all possible.
My take aways from Shota's deck:
Oh yeah its considered a blue card too. Thanks for that mate
4-0 to get to the top 4:
- 2-0 Against a W/R Control
- 2-1 Against R/B Aggro
- 2-0 Against Collosus Deck
- 2-1 Against W/R Vehicles
Semifinal:
- 2-0 Against R/B Aggro
Final:
- 0-2 Against W/R Vehicles (Double mana screw, always unlucky BabyRage)
Good Thing: opened a Sol Ring in my 2nd place prize boosters.
Did some small updates to the deck:
- Maindeck: Remains the same.
- Sideboard: one Flaying Tendrils out, one more Negate in. The 4th Flaying Tendrils was too much (3 is the right amount); Negate is great right now so having acces to a third copy is pretty good.
- Thinking about going from 2 copies of Ob Nixilis Reignited to 1 in the maindeck, not sure if i want to remove it from the 75 and replace it with "new" card, or just replace it with a card from the sideboard and keep the second copy in the 75.
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Negate
4 Void Shatter
3 Anticipate
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
3 Essence Extraction
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Negate
1 Ceremonious Rejection
PD: Shaheen Soorani wrote an article (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33892_The-Control-Renaissance.html) with his lastest UB Control list wich is very similar with the one we have here:
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
4 Submerged Boneyard
6 Swamp
3 Island
3 Aether Hub
2 Blighted Fen
Creatures (5)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Khalitas, traitor of ghet
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Jace, Unraveler of secrets
3 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
4 Scatter to the winds
1 Summary Dismissal
4 Anticipate
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Confirmed Suspicions
1 Summary Dismissal
2 To the Slaughter
2 Essence Extraction
2 Lost Legacy
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Negate
- moved 2 Flaying Tendrils to the maindeck replacing one copy of Liliana, The Last Hope (wich is removed from the 75) and one of Ob Nixilis Reignited (wich is replaced by Jace, Unraveler of Secrets in the sideboard). With the upcoming prevalence of W/U Flash and Mardu Vehicles Flaying Tendrils seems like a must main deck card at least as a one of so we can fight better against this aggro strategies, against Mardu Vehicles is an all star, it kills almost all of their creatures and it also exiles them (im looking at you Scrapheap Scrounger). Against W/U flash is not as good as VS Mardu Vehicles but it's a good card to have in situations when the opponents floods the board with their little creatures.
- the maindeck Ceremonious Rejection is moved to the sideboard, beign replaced by a 4th Anticipate. I feel that we need 4 copies of it, it finds the lands and answers we need in the early game wich is very important ina fast format like the one we have right now. Ceremonious Rejection maindeck is still a good option against vehicles but i feel it's less attractive because of the downfall of the Aetherwork Marvel and Colossus Decks getting out of the metagame and we already have decent options against vehicles, such as Negate, Grasp of Darkness and Murder in the maindeck. Also i'm keeping in the Void Shatter > Scatter to the Winds team, beacuse i think Ceremonious Rejection will descrease in amount the following weeks.
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
2 Negate
4 Void Shatter
4 Anticipate
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
3 Essence Extraction
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
This is my first attempt at control. Traditionally I have been aggro. But thought it was time to broaden my horizon. Here is the list of I have been testing:
2 Harsh Scrutiny
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 murder
2 Ruinous Path
2 Flaying Tendrils
4 Anticipate
2 Negate
4 Horribly Awry
3 Void Shatter
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Liliana, the last hope
1 ob nixilis reignited
1 jace, unraveler of secrets
Creatures 2
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
Land 26
4 evolving wilds
4 sunken hollow
4 Choked Estuary
7 swamp
7 island
Horribly Awry - This card has been working great. Stops creatures that create multi threats and big threats such as Pia Nalaar, Veteran Motorist, Sylvan Advocate, Blistering Hydra, Lathnu Hellion, and all those pesky spirits. This card is easily sided out for Transgress in appropriate matches.
Harsh Scrutiny - Great at seeing the opponent's hand to set up your next plays and fixes your next draw.
Sphinx of the Final Word - This creature was chosen over Torrential Gearhulk for testing purposes. I want to make sure I like the deck before I invest. Liliana, is not budget either but I already had 2 of those. Flying and hexproof make Sphinx difficult to deal with.
Evolving wilds - becuase we scry to the bottom a lot, we can shuffle those cards back into the mix
C Long Live Eldrazi C
After a lot of testing and playing tournaments i got to the following list:
- Removed Evolving Wilds for Submerged Boneyard, shuffling the deck is nice but better mana is better.
- Liliana, The Last Hope is one of the best cards in the current metagame and we need to play at least 3 copies in the maindeck.
- Replaced Ob Nixilis Reignited for Jace, Unraveler of Secrets.
- Modified the maindeck removal package to adjust as efficient as possible with the current metagame (this will probably change all the time), might 2-2 split Essence Extraction and Murder if we need more hard removal instead of the extra life (would require to remove the 4th copy of Essence Extraction from the 75).
- Added a 4th copy of Glimmer of Genius, this card makes the deck go rolling together with Anticipate so we want it as much as possible at turn 4 (had to remove one Ruinous Path from the 75 to make this change).
- Added Sphinx of The Final Word to the sideboard, it's the best trump card against all other blue control decks.
- Moves all 4 copies of Transgress the Mind to the sideboard, it's still good at maindeck but i think that i'd rather have other cards and board them in against matchups where they shine.
- Removed Ceremonious Rejection from the 75.
- Added the full 4 copies of Negate to the 75 (2 main 2 side), it's the best answer against planeswalker the aggro matchups board in and it's also great against Control and Combo matchups.
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
4 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Dead Weight
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Essence Extraction
1 Murder
2 Ruinous Path
2 Negate
4 Void Shatter
4 Anticipate
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
1 Essence Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Negate
Your list has a lot in common with the 9th place finisher Nicolas de Nicola at GP Santiago. Check out his list at the top of this page http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsan16/9-64-decklists-2016-10-30
Your main decks differ in the following ways:
He runs the 9th swamp instead of Blighted Fen.
He has no Dead Weight, but runs a 2nd Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and 1 copy of Revolutionary Rebuff.
You have both stumbled onto the removal ratio of 4x Grasp of Darkness, 3x Essence Extraction, 1x Murder, and 2x Ruinous Path. Would you mind explaining what lead to this split? Obviously the grasps are an auto four-of. But I am very intrigued by the other ones, as Shaheen Soorani favours 3x Ruinous Path and 3x Murder maindeck, putting Essence Extraction in the board.
I like the addition of Dead Weight. I have tried Harsh Scrutiny in the 1-mana slot, with mostly decent results. Have you tried this card?
I have many other questions, as there are so many permutations to try, so many land configurations, and so many sideboard slots, but I will leave it here for now.
- I can see why he would use the 9th Swamp over the Blighted Fen, because in some matches having the Blighted Fen in the opening hand trolls out our mana a bit, but i still think it's worth having it in the deck (especially against Sphinx of The Final Word).
- The 1 of Revolutionary Rebuff sounds very good actually, i tried the card as a 4 of and it was terrible, but as a 1 of it might be very good in the maindeck (instead of 1 Dead Weight maybe).
- Grasp of Drakness is the only 2 cmc good black removal we have in the format, but i think it's not enough to battle the early game threats, so the 2 copies of Dead Weight are the way we have of interacting earlier in the game for cheap mana, later in the game it's decent enough killing relevant creatures as Selfless Spirit for just one mana and it can also kill 3 thoughnes creatures with Liliana, The Last Hope +1 and 5 thougness creatures with Essence Extraction.
- Honestly, the removal ratio depends very much on the metagame you are facing, and the current meta is currently W/U Flash, RW/Mardu Vehicles and GB Delirium. Essence Extraction is the best card against the RW/Mardu Vehicles, but i think Muder is better against WU Flash (Because of Archangel Avacyn) and GB Delirum, so in the end the split we use will depend in what decks you think you will be facing. That's why i was thinking of changing to a 2-2 split with Essence Extraction and Murder.
- I think the 3rd copy of Ruinous Path was not that good in the maindeck, especially because most decks in the current meta board planeswalkers instead of having them maindeck, so i'd rather board the 3rd copy later that having it in the maindeck (This might change if GB Delirium with 4 maindeck Liliana, The Last Hope becomes more prevalent, wich will probably happen). The 1 maindeck copy of Revolutionary Rebuff could be an answer to this issue though.
- I have not tried Harsh Scrutiny so i can't really tell if it's good enough. I think i prefer Dead Weight though.
This is the mana base I'm using at the moment.
4 Aether Hub
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
6 Swamp
5 Island
So the first thing to see is that I'm using 25 lands over 26. I felt like I was getting flooded so much with 26 lands. With 25 lands I fell like I am still comfortably hitting them all on time, especially with the full four copies of Anticipate in the deck. Secondly, using the playset of Aether Hub and going down to two copies of Submerged Boneyard gives me untapped mana more regularly. Using these lands, you have the 20 black sources needed to cast Grasp of Darkness on turn 2, and the 19 blue sources needed to cast Void Shatter on turn 3. Now, obviously people are scared that they will run out of energy with Aether Hub. In addition to four copies of Glimmer of Genius, I have been combining it with two copies of Aether Meltdown, and I honestly can't remember the last game where powering the hub has been an issue for me. Speaking of Aether Meltdown, I feel like people are sleeping on this card. It has been an all-star in several situations for me. It actually stops a Scrapheap Scrounger or Prized Amalgam, whereas other removal will just delay them for a while. I know it has its downsides, but I would encourage you guys to give it a try as a 2-of or 3-of. Early interaction against aggro is obviously very important, and three mana removal spells can sometimes feel painfully slow. This one is cheap, and also helps power Aether Hub. I think it's at least worth a try.
im currently running this list for about 2 weeks now. so i need some opinion of my take on the ub control deck. im still getting myself familiar with this deck.
matchup wise, i have no trouble going against those control decks.
most of the time i had a 50-50 chance against aggro decks.
but i did badly against GB Delirium and zombies deck.
Creatures
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Thing In The Ice
Planes walker (4)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Sorcery (2)
2 Flaying Tendrils
Instant (20)
3 Anticipate
3 Murder
3 Grasp of Darkness
3 Scatter to the Winds
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Void Shatter
2 Negate
1 Summary Dismissal
Lands (25)
3 Choked Estuary
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Sunken Hollow
10 Swamp
6 Island
Sideboard
3 Trangress The Mind
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Ruinous Path
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sphinx Of The Final Word
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Demon Of Dark Schemes
2 Essence Extraction
One friend of mine told me i could go down to 25 lands because of the 4 Anticipe maindeck , haven't tries this yet (busy days lately). Not sure about Aether Hub, it would require us to use Aether Meltdown wich i don't like very much (might be wrong). Honestly i would have to test with it to have a better opinion on this. The current land base i'm using has been working just fine so i don't know if changing it is necessary, the only change i might like to do would be moving to 25 lands maindeck.