I'd personally flip the Ongoing and Fleeting numbers. Milling can happen so fast with two Fleeting on the board. Hell even with one and 15 clues its GG.
I've been playing a W/B fleeting list the last couple of days. But green has the best investigator in Tireless Tracker so I might try this out.
It may not be the most competitive and its kind of slow/grindy but once you get the Journal combos set up and going it is SO satisfying to get a win with.
I think its possible to drop one land and trade the Press for Answers for more Scrutiny's. Confront the Unknown could be added, but honestly I sort of prefer Scrutiny instead.
I think you could also drop a Second Harvest and one Journal as well but I don't really know what you would put in all these empty slots.
Here's another build I found. It goes heavy on the artifact synergies. The main game plan seems to be stall with little guys until your clue synergies take over.
As far as I can figure, Tamiyo's Journal is the only available tutor, right? Still, I'm loving these crazy ideas. I've actually been contemplating to sell my Collected Companies (they rotate in 5 months), get a $100, and this collection of decks might fill me. I'll have to start by trying Blidblid's deck. Then I definitely want to try the Tragic Arrogance combo deck.
Blidblid, I take it your idea is Journal, tap, fetch Collected Company, cast that at instant speed? Then loop back. That's neat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I've been messing around with clues to see if they can work out in standard, and I have a list that's a bit similar. The idea is to do what Season's Past decks are doing at instant speed. Nissa's Renewal + Tracker = Tutor = Season's Past = Nissa's Renewal + Tracker and so on.
If it all gets rolling, Displacer is a terrific mana sink after a few Nissa's Renewal. I've played with it online a bit and it's a blast.
I tried a very similar build with the following changes:
+4 Thalia's Lieutenant (there's a lot of humans around, and she's worth it.)
-2 Eldrazi Displacer, -1 Lambholt Pacifist, -1 Nissa Vastwood Seer (something has to give way)
+2 Bygone Bishop, -1 Thraben Inspector, -1 Sylvan Advocate
+1 Tragic Arrogance, (1 more in side) +1 Ulvenwald Mysteries (2 more in side)
+2 Dromoka's Command (1 more side), +1 Confront the Unknown (2 more in side)
The resulting games were very interesting. I scored a loss to RBU dragons (poor draws, but it didn't look promising), loss to GW tokens (when all your draws are lands or Thraben Inspectors who fetch lands, not much can be done.), win over RG ramp, win over BUW control, draw against RB vampires (slow play). I missed a ton of triggers and play possibilities.
My conclusions from all this:
The Coco side of the deck is very strong, though I sided it out against GW tokens for more of the clue side of things.
I missed *way* too many triggers related to investigating and cracking clues, and would surely have scored better if I just remembered them all.
The main deck gathers a healthy number of clues that serve to keep you going most of the time, but barely enough to enable Tamiyo's Journal
The main deck doesn't have enough good targets for Journal. I want something higher impact but don't know what.
Is paying 5 for Journal, saccing 3 clues, searching for Coco, paying 4 to coco, is that any better than not having Journal and paying 6 to draw 3 cards off of the clues? I'm thinking not.
I *really* like Mysteries against a lot of things, but especially control.
I had 4 mill cards in side, but couldn't figure a time I wanted to try them.
In summation, I think there's something powerful here, but it's tricky to get the right build. In the end, here's the killer combo I want to pursue:
Ulvenwald Mysteries (especially good against control)
Tireless Tracker and/or Thalia's Lieutenant
Whirler Rogue
Pile up the clues, tap them to Whirler Rogue to make Tracker and/or Lieutenant unblockable, sac a bunch to make a bunch of humans. Saccing pumps tracker, and humans pump Lieutenant. Now for redundancy, we can also go huge with Confront the Unknown, use Den Protector to sneak past instead of Whirler Rogue.
This leaves unresolved questions of Tragic Arrogance, Tamiyo's Journal which might be vital to the clue-saccing plan but I feel like aren't always good enough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I built this list for FNM because I felt bad about taking a tier 1 deck to a free event marketed to casual players. It was really fun!
The goal of the deck is to generate a lot of artifact tokens (Thopters and Clues, mainly Clues) and then resolve Tamiyo's Journal to assemble a 2-card combo that beats most creature decks in the format -- Ghirapur Æther Grid and Willbreaker. Æther Grid gives you a 0-mana method of targeting opponents' creatures, and Willbreaker converts those targets into a massive payoff.
Against controlling decks, you have another "combo" of sorts that will win the game eventually -- Thopter Spy Network + Clues. The deck also plays >20 creatures and has Sylvan Advocate with six manlands so you can also win a more conventional fight that way as needed.
Anybody besides me still on this deck? I'm looking at all variety of builds whether WUG or RUG, but I can't decide what will be most effective. I have a strong pull towards Thopter Spy Network, which gives a very powerful long-range winning strategy, likewise with Ongoing Investigation or Ulvenwald Mysteries. These cards provide long-range advantage, which leads me to a more controlling midrange build.
I've been playing with Clue decks since the set came out. Fleeting Memories with a Journal and a Tracker out is nuts. I started out running with The Great Aurora and using clues to draw lots of cards to finish with Gaea's Revenge. Changing up to Fleeting Memories and Startled Awake has been rather smooth. With the deck below the best play is turn 3 Fleeting, turn four Tracker with an Evolving Wilds which gets you to 3 clues. Turn 5 Play a land and Journal, you're at 4 tokens. Activate Journal mill for 9 and 3 +1 counters on the tracker and fetch a Startled Awake. Next turn clue from Journal and a land, activate Journal mill for 9 buff the Tracker and cast Startled awake to mill for 13. That's half the deck milled right there. Engulf the Shore helps against the human decks running around and Altered Ego can copy anything a buffed Tracker cant handle.
I'm taking this to FNM this week and taking out the Reflector Mages. They are good but dropping White seems to smooth the deck out more. They are being replaced with Press for Answers.
As far as sideboard, I will probably move the White in there or maybe add Black
Ongoing Investigation ranges from bad to amazing. The amazing part is in the late game when it gets you more and more clues and catches you up on life totals.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Well, yes the decks are completely different. The only overlap is Tireless Tracker and Confront the Unknown. But consider the cards I'm running: Thraben Inspector, Pilgrim's Eye, Thopter Spy Network. These are not fast cards, and they aren't going to end any game quickly. What they do is give me a longterm advantage, and in some of these games a source of life gain is invaluable to getting there.
Of course I've also built clue decks on the other end of the spectrum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Yeah, so anyway I can't get Hangarbacks anywhere, so I decided to try the mill combo deck. That was fun. I believe Graf Mole is a key to it working out, but other than that I'm wide open to suggestions.
EDIT 6/25: revised to be hardcore mill. but still with the ability to win by creatures. really, just following the clues!
A previous version with only 4 mill cards turned out to only beat 2 decks and failed agains a bunch of others. The the deck was very good at not losing, but not very good at winning. Every game I won took a long time, and only a few were by milling. Losses came quick before I could stabilize, or slow, overcoming my durdliness.
EDIT: Played a bunch more and here's my answer: +4 Sphinx's Tutelage.
It feels so much better. It's still weak to aggressive flyers, but it is fast enough now that it isn't just a loss.
Having 8 mill cards really works. With 1 Tutelage and 1 Fleeting Memories out, we can simply sac a clue, draw a card and mill for approximately 3+4. And you still get the beginning-of-turn draw that triggers Tutelage. When you get Tamiyo's Journal, you sac 3 for free and trigger only Fleeting Memories but for 9, but you can fetch something else that makes more clues and/or answers their board.
1 Tragic Arrogance is great when everything is together and you win. It's fine when you are way behind and struggling to catch up. Every other time it's not what you want. You're destroying your own enchantment and clue collection.
So my game plan is to just keep advancing my board. If the opponent is aggro, minimize the damage using whatever tools, incidentally building up clues, drawing cards to expand the mana base, and then use Tamiyo's Journal to search up the ideal silver bullet to each turn's biggest problem. Once things are under control, ride home to the win, typically by milling, combined with life gain.
If the opponent is midrange or control, creatures are used to keep planeswalkers under control, and to minimize damage against you. Otherwise, set up your mill plan. Attack where it's desirable, and if the opportunity arises, cash in with a giant attack. The key is, let those clues accumulate if you aren't in need of cards. Then Confront the Unknown can be like +6, 2 of them +13, and saccing clues to Journal (preferrably after Confront)gives your Tracker +3 counters.
We'll see next week if it works out in further matches. Numbers of each spell are still very much in doubt.
First of all, sorry if my english isn't great. It's my second language. I have an idea about clue deck:
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Port Town
4 Fortified Village
4 Forest
4 Plains
4 Island
Creatures (16)
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Erdwal Illuminator
4 Tireless Tracker
3 Bygone Bishop
1 Graf Mole
4 Confront the Unknown
4 Expose Evil
3 Tragic Arrogance
3 Ulvenwald Mysteries
3 Ongoing Investigation
2 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Fleeting Memories
3 Negate
2 Dispel
3 Fleeting Memories
1 Ulvenwald Mysteries
2 Bound by Moonsilver
2 Plummet
2 Graf Mole
The combo is Tragic Arrogance + Ulvenwald Mysteries/Fleeting Memories/Tireless Tracker + clues. So, we sacrifice all our clues with Tragic Arrogance and we have tons of counters on Tireless Tracker, tons of tokens with Mysteries or empty opponent's library with Fleeting Memories. On the other hand, we can just one shot our opponent with something like Erdwal Illuminator + Confront the Unknown if we have enough clues.
What do you think about it?
I've been playing a W/B fleeting list the last couple of days. But green has the best investigator in Tireless Tracker so I might try this out.
Thx mang.
4 Erdwal Illuminator
4 Graf Mole
4 Tireless Tracker
Spells (17)
2 Jace's Scrutiny
2 Press for Answers
1 Ghirapur Æther Grid
3 Ulvenwald Mysteries
4 Weirding Wood
3 Second Harvest
2 Confirm Suspicions
4 Tamiyo's Journal
Lands (27)
2 Cinder Glade
4 Evolving Wilds
6 Forest
10 Island
1 Mountain
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Dispel
2 Clip Wings
2 Naturalize
2 Fleeting Memories
3 Radiant Flames
1 Thopter Spy Network
2 Confirm Suspicions
1 The Great Aurora
It may not be the most competitive and its kind of slow/grindy but once you get the Journal combos set up and going it is SO satisfying to get a win with.
I think its possible to drop one land and trade the Press for Answers for more Scrutiny's. Confront the Unknown could be added, but honestly I sort of prefer Scrutiny instead.
I think you could also drop a Second Harvest and one Journal as well but I don't really know what you would put in all these empty slots.
Tappedout.net Temur Cluestorm
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Blidblid, I take it your idea is Journal, tap, fetch Collected Company, cast that at instant speed? Then loop back. That's neat.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I tried a very similar build with the following changes:
+4 Thalia's Lieutenant (there's a lot of humans around, and she's worth it.)
-2 Eldrazi Displacer, -1 Lambholt Pacifist, -1 Nissa Vastwood Seer (something has to give way)
+2 Bygone Bishop, -1 Thraben Inspector, -1 Sylvan Advocate
+1 Tragic Arrogance, (1 more in side) +1 Ulvenwald Mysteries (2 more in side)
+2 Dromoka's Command (1 more side), +1 Confront the Unknown (2 more in side)
-2 Tamiyo's Journal (1 main, 2 in side), -1 Ongoing Investigation
-1 Season's Past, -1 Nissa's Renewal
The resulting games were very interesting. I scored a loss to RBU dragons (poor draws, but it didn't look promising), loss to GW tokens (when all your draws are lands or Thraben Inspectors who fetch lands, not much can be done.), win over RG ramp, win over BUW control, draw against RB vampires (slow play). I missed a ton of triggers and play possibilities.
My conclusions from all this:
In summation, I think there's something powerful here, but it's tricky to get the right build. In the end, here's the killer combo I want to pursue:
Ulvenwald Mysteries (especially good against control)
Tireless Tracker and/or Thalia's Lieutenant
Whirler Rogue
Pile up the clues, tap them to Whirler Rogue to make Tracker and/or Lieutenant unblockable, sac a bunch to make a bunch of humans. Saccing pumps tracker, and humans pump Lieutenant. Now for redundancy, we can also go huge with Confront the Unknown, use Den Protector to sneak past instead of Whirler Rogue.
This leaves unresolved questions of Tragic Arrogance, Tamiyo's Journal which might be vital to the clue-saccing plan but I feel like aren't always good enough.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
The goal of the deck is to generate a lot of artifact tokens (Thopters and Clues, mainly Clues) and then resolve Tamiyo's Journal to assemble a 2-card combo that beats most creature decks in the format -- Ghirapur Æther Grid and Willbreaker. Æther Grid gives you a 0-mana method of targeting opponents' creatures, and Willbreaker converts those targets into a massive payoff.
Against controlling decks, you have another "combo" of sorts that will win the game eventually -- Thopter Spy Network + Clues. The deck also plays >20 creatures and has Sylvan Advocate with six manlands so you can also win a more conventional fight that way as needed.
4 Erdwal Illuminator
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Thopter Engineer
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Willbreaker
Enchantments & Artifacts (13)
4 Tamiyo's Journal
3 Ghirapur Æther Grid
3 Ongoing Investigation
3 Thopter Spy Network
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Lumbering Falls
4 Shivan Reef
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Cinder Glade
2 Wandering Fumarole
3 Forest
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Graf Mole
4 Fevered Visions
1 Display of Dominance
2 Negate
4 Radiant Flames
2 Root Out
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Whirler Rogue
4 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Graf Mole
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Tragic Arrogance
4 Expose Evil
1 Declaration in Stone
4 Confront the Unknown
1 Natural State
2 Tamiyo's Journal
2 Ongoing Investigation
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Island
3 Plains
3 Prairie Stream
2 Forest
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Canopy Vista
1 Natural State
2 Quarantine Field
3 Declaration in Stone
2 Planar Outburst
3 Graf Mole
2 Negate
2 Den Protector
I think this makes a lot of sense, but it needs to be tuned.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Graf Mole is a good idea, one I missed. Natural State is one I should sub in instead of Naturalize
I'm personally loving Skyrider Elf, but it requires you to splash sources for all 5 colours to make shine (although it's decent with 3 colours)
How are you finding Ongoing Investigation? I've been considering it but it feels a little weak and I'm already running too many enchantments.
I'm also more than a little surprised every clue deck here is missing Reclaim. Instant speed fetch from graveyard with a clue sac? Yes please!
3x Fleeting Memories
3x Engulf the Shore
1x Nissa's Renewal
2x Clash of Wills
3x Spell Shrivel
1x Seasons Past
4x Reflector Mage
3x Graf Mole
2x Altered Ego
3x Tamiyo's Journal
3x Oath of Nissa
25 Lands
I'm taking this to FNM this week and taking out the Reflector Mages. They are good but dropping White seems to smooth the deck out more. They are being replaced with Press for Answers.
As far as sideboard, I will probably move the White in there or maybe add Black
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I'm usually leading in damage but suffer late game as my opponent gains a foothold. I'm hoping that Slip Through Space will help me in that situation.
Here is the version I'm currently running. I need a few more cards to make multiples of stuff, though.
1 Fertile Thicket
1 Fortified Village
4 Forest
1 Foul Orchard
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Shivan Reef
1 Timber Gorge
1 Unknown Shores
4 Warped Landscape
2 Woodland Stream
1 Yavimaya Coast
Creatures
1 Altered Ego
1 Matter Reshaper
2 Reclusive Artificer
4 Skyrider Elf
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Anticipate
4 Confront the Unknown
2 Dispel
2 Geistblast
4 Reclaim
Enchantments
4 Trail of Evidence
2 Ulvenwald Mysteries
1 Ghirapur Æther Grid
Other
4 Slip Through Space
1 Tamiyo's Journal
3 Naturalize
1 Bounding Krasis
3 Negate
3 Anchor to the Æther
2 Bonds of Mortality
1 Second Harvest
1 Engulf the Shore
Of course I've also built clue decks on the other end of the spectrum.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Dimensional Infiltrator
4 Rattlechains
4 Bygone Bishop
4 Reflector Mage
Spells (16)
2 Clash of Wills
2 Negate
2 Ongoing Investigation
1 Scatter to the Winds
3 Stasis Snare
3 Ojutai's Command
3 Thopter Spy Network
1 Foundry of the Consuls
7 Island
7 Plains
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
1 Westvale Abbey
2 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Negate
2 Silkwrap
2 Eerie Interlude
1 Scatter to the Winds
1 Stasis Snare
2 Void Shatter
3 Planar Outburst
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
EDIT 6/25: revised to be hardcore mill. but still with the ability to win by creatures. really, just following the clues!
4x Canopy Vista
4x Evolving Wilds
3x Forest
3x Island
2x Lumbering Falls
4x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
Instant (7)
3x Confront the Unknown
2x Expose Evil
2x Negate
4x Fleeting Memories
2x Ongoing Investigation
4x Sphinx's Tutelage
1x Stasis Snare
Creature (14)
4x Erdwal Illuminator
4x Graf Mole
4x Thraben Inspector
2x Tireless Tracker
Sorcery (1)
1x Tragic Arrogance
Artifact (3)
3x Tamiyo's Journal
2x Bygone Bishop
2x Clash of Wills
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Natural State
1x Planar Cleansing
1x Quarantine Field
2x Reflector Mage
2x Thopter Spy Network
A previous version with only 4 mill cards turned out to only beat 2 decks and failed agains a bunch of others. The the deck was very good at not losing, but not very good at winning. Every game I won took a long time, and only a few were by milling. Losses came quick before I could stabilize, or slow, overcoming my durdliness.
EDIT: Played a bunch more and here's my answer: +4 Sphinx's Tutelage.
It feels so much better. It's still weak to aggressive flyers, but it is fast enough now that it isn't just a loss.
Having 8 mill cards really works. With 1 Tutelage and 1 Fleeting Memories out, we can simply sac a clue, draw a card and mill for approximately 3+4. And you still get the beginning-of-turn draw that triggers Tutelage. When you get Tamiyo's Journal, you sac 3 for free and trigger only Fleeting Memories but for 9, but you can fetch something else that makes more clues and/or answers their board.
1 Tragic Arrogance is great when everything is together and you win. It's fine when you are way behind and struggling to catch up. Every other time it's not what you want. You're destroying your own enchantment and clue collection.
So my game plan is to just keep advancing my board. If the opponent is aggro, minimize the damage using whatever tools, incidentally building up clues, drawing cards to expand the mana base, and then use Tamiyo's Journal to search up the ideal silver bullet to each turn's biggest problem. Once things are under control, ride home to the win, typically by milling, combined with life gain.
If the opponent is midrange or control, creatures are used to keep planeswalkers under control, and to minimize damage against you. Otherwise, set up your mill plan. Attack where it's desirable, and if the opportunity arises, cash in with a giant attack. The key is, let those clues accumulate if you aren't in need of cards. Then Confront the Unknown can be like +6, 2 of them +13, and saccing clues to Journal (preferrably after Confront)gives your Tracker +3 counters.
We'll see next week if it works out in further matches. Numbers of each spell are still very much in doubt.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG