I'm playing this or G/R ramp this weekend, have you guys/gals tried moving the 4th Drowner in the Main 60? I feel like this deck could run on 27 lands...but I have noticed just how important it is for this deck to make it's lands drops.
I've seen some lists do it. I've personally been finding myself siding in the fourth Drowner more often than not, so I think it might be correct. I honestly can't think of a matchup where drawing more Drowners is bad.
Unlike G/R Ramp, the Grixis control match up didn't feel as easy, in fact after practicing numerous SB games against a friend I felt slightly unfavored. This may be due to the deck being slower then Ramp, and not having the ability to Chain World Breaker's and Ulamogs. Maybe that's just my observation, Grixis is a cake walk for G/R, but didn't seem like it with this version.
The loss of Worldbreakers is likely the reason for this. Honestly, I feel the deck has more okay matchups and fewer great ones. That said, the biggest draw the deck has over G/R ramp is two fold: First, it has few truly terrible match ups, and it also has significantly better consistency due to no needing to run 15 or so truly useless cards if topdecked. I feel the biggest reason for this is Anticipate, which is the perfect card at any point in the game.
I like it a lot. I think a 2/2 split of fumarole and lumbering falls is better and I think spawning bed needs to go back in there since it's amazing with drowner of hope. Speaking of drowner, I think you should play 3 or 4 main deck. You can cut 2 spell shrivel or void shatter.
I was also considering this just some hours before I saw the list.I was sending myself an e-mail with the needed cards and modifications and we actually came to the same conclusions. We have the mana , we need a triggering eldrazi for Kozilek's Return and this just seems perfect! But it might hurt our early game a bit more...
It could actually work but I guess that it will be harder to tune that our current UR list. Speaking of which, Artificer's Epiphany looks amazing to keep digging and most of the time it won't have any downside. I will definitely test it tonight.
I think the 2-3 split of Drowner/Worldbreaker is somewhat wrong. Drowners are just far more important to the deck's functionality being your means of Ramping, getting extra bodies out, and locking out attackers/blockers. Equally, without the ramp spells you simply won't have an abundance of lands to sac to get the breakers back. While I think there is room for the green splash, it seems that dropping drowners to 2 isn't the right way of going about it (Particularly if you are doing so to increase your curve by adding more 7+cost spells).
Going for a third color splash also heavily incentives you to always have Anticipate on hand, as well. To be frank I don't think the straight U/R builds can afford to go less than a full four, and a three color build needs it more to find the lands it needs. Having 4 Void Shatters and 2 Spell Shrivels is two too many; while I won't say which is correct (As they both have their merits), I will say that you probably want to cut it down to a total of 4 in some combination (And replace them with 2 more Anticipates; I *am* going to beat this dead horse constantly as I feel it is one of the best things going for the deck and its consistency).
On the subject of a splash, however, I am wondering what a white splash would do for Displacer (As I don't think you can make the mana work for Gideons or Avacyn's without serious reworks). Being able to blink a Drowner seems extremely strong, and locking out attackers and having some decent game against tokens could be useful. Not sure what the mana base would look like, or the list.
Are the 28 lands necessary? im on 6 islands and cut a mage ring network to get it to 27. 4 drowner/3 ulamogs as well though i've seen some cut an ulamog to the SB
Heya, does anyone have SCG Premium? Brad Nelson and Todd Anderson posted a VS article and Todd is playing U/R Eldrazi. Would like to see his decklist. I just ordered the couple lands and spells I need to convert my G/R ramp into this for something new and interactive. Thanks to anyone who can help!
Sadly after many many many games of testing I've found that G/W Tokens and Humans give the deck a harder time that I originally thought.It's not a bad deck, but unlike the last 2 decks mentioned, this one isn't as consistent and a resolved walker like Gideon is a beating. That said it's not completely hopeless sometimes you do really crush, and other times your counterspells look bad off curve.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Thanks for the reply; I gave in and got Premium for a week so I could watch the match on my break.
Todd was using the initial U/R decklist with the 3/3 split of Ulamogs and Drowners. And yeah, the games were very lopsided. As I watched them, I kept thinking of how the games would have played if Todd had access to World Breaker for the Hangarbacks and as an extra way to trigger Kozilek's return. Since Brad's deck was running minimal interaction, World Breaker's def would have made a difference.
Still looking forward to trying the updated list out; my LGS isn't big on G/W tokens, so games will be better.
Thanks for the reply; I gave in and got Premium for a week so I could watch the match on my break.
Todd was using the initial U/R decklist with the 3/3 split of Ulamogs and Drowners. And yeah, the games were very lopsided. As I watched them, I kept thinking of how the games would have played if Todd had access to World Breaker for the Hangarbacks and as an extra way to trigger Kozilek's return. Since Brad's deck was running minimal interaction, World Breaker's def would have made a difference.
Still looking forward to trying the updated list out; my LGS isn't big on G/W tokens, so games will be better.
I think Todd sideboarded horrendously in those matches. He definitely should not have sideboarded out the Drowner, if anything he should have brought in the 4th one. From my own experience the G/W tokens match up is definitely not favorable but not too terrible either it's pretty close to 50/50 actually. The key here is not to let them resolve gideon and Avacyn. Nissa can be ignored as a matter of fact I've won some games where they ultimate Nissa. If you have to choose between countering a Nissa or wait for a Gideon always hold your counterspell. If G/W is big at your LGS swapping some or all of the spatial contortion with Roast could be a good move to counter advocate and pacifist.
The worst match up (IMHO almost unwinnable) for this deck is actually G/x ramp. That match up is worse than miserable.
I think Todd sideboarded horrendously in those matches. He definitely should not have sideboarded out the Drowner, if anything he should have brought in the 4th one. From my own experience the G/W tokens match up is definitely not favorable but not too terrible either it's pretty close to 50/50 actually. The key here is not to let them resolve gideon and Avacyn. Nissa can be ignored as a matter of fact I've won some games where they ultimate Nissa. If you have to choose between countering a Nissa or wait for a Gideon always hold your counterspell. If G/W is big at your LGS swapping some or all of the spatial contortion with Roast could be a good move to counter advocate and pacifist.
Yeah, I've never found myself boarding out the third Drowner. That is always a mistake. I can't imagine a reasoning behind it.
Frankly, I still don't see how G/W tokens is anywhere near a fair matchup. I've been destroyed every bloody game against it. They have that right mix of early ground pounders with late game relevance coupled with highpowered must-answer mid game threats that just makes it almost impossible to beat. You simply cannot afford to miss a beat against them, and a single bad draw (Let alone a series of them, which this deck can have) will leave you very dead very fast.
The worst match up (IMHO almost unwinnable) for this deck is actually G/x ramp. That match up is worse than miserable.
Now this I have to disagree with. It's not a phenomenal match-up, but you I have yet to have serious problem against it. The important cards in the matchup are Counterspells, Anticipate, Mage-Ring, and Ulamog. Literally nothing else matters. Counterspells can grind them to a complete hault, and you should be concerned with *only* hitting their ramp spells. Every ramp spell should be countered when possible. So long as you don't miss land drops, you will get to your needed land drops for Ulamog before they do due to a naturally higher land count, Anticipate, and Mage-Ring. That said, you *really* need to be the first person to cast an Ulamog. If you are, it's pretty much a cake-walk from there.
Frankly, I've found that taking out both Chandras in the match-up is often correct. You won't be racing them down much at all with her. The regular 3 drowners are left in just for incidental ramping/tapdown if need be.
It's a manageable match up from my experience, and you only really will lose it if they natural draw the lands they need. You really should be aggressively mulliganing hands without disruption.
I think Todd sideboarded horrendously in those matches. He definitely should not have sideboarded out the Drowner, if anything he should have brought in the 4th one. From my own experience the G/W tokens match up is definitely not favorable but not too terrible either it's pretty close to 50/50 actually. The key here is not to let them resolve gideon and Avacyn. Nissa can be ignored as a matter of fact I've won some games where they ultimate Nissa. If you have to choose between countering a Nissa or wait for a Gideon always hold your counterspell. If G/W is big at your LGS swapping some or all of the spatial contortion with Roast could be a good move to counter advocate and pacifist.
Yeah, I've never found myself boarding out the third Drowner. That is always a mistake. I can't imagine a reasoning behind it.
Frankly, I still don't see how G/W tokens is anywhere near a fair matchup. I've been destroyed every bloody game against it. They have that right mix of early ground pounders with late game relevance coupled with highpowered must-answer mid game threats that just makes it almost impossible to beat. You simply cannot afford to miss a beat against them, and a single bad draw (Let alone a series of them, which this deck can have) will leave you very dead very fast.
The worst match up (IMHO almost unwinnable) for this deck is actually G/x ramp. That match up is worse than miserable.
Now this I have to disagree with. It's not a phenomenal match-up, but you I have yet to have serious problem against it. The important cards in the matchup are Counterspells, Anticipate, Mage-Ring, and Ulamog. Literally nothing else matters. Counterspells can grind them to a complete hault, and you should be concerned with *only* hitting their ramp spells. Every ramp spell should be countered when possible. So long as you don't miss land drops, you will get to your needed land drops for Ulamog before they do due to a naturally higher land count, Anticipate, and Mage-Ring. That said, you *really* need to be the first person to cast an Ulamog. If you are, it's pretty much a cake-walk from there.
Frankly, I've found that taking out both Chandras in the match-up is often correct. You won't be racing them down much at all with her. The regular 3 drowners are left in just for incidental ramping/tapdown if need be.
It's a manageable match up from my experience, and you only really will lose it if they natural draw the lands they need. You really should be aggressively mulliganing hands without disruption.
My experience with ramp is it just doesn't matter if you counter their ramp because they have Worldbreaker on turn 7 that will set us back from Ulamog and if they trigger sanctum it's just lights out. I'm going to practice more against ramp but to me it's just a miserable match up. I'd rather face G/W tokens than ramp any day.
I think Todd sideboarded horrendously in those matches. He definitely should not have sideboarded out the Drowner, if anything he should have brought in the 4th one. From my own experience the G/W tokens match up is definitely not favorable but not too terrible either it's pretty close to 50/50 actually. The key here is not to let them resolve gideon and Avacyn. Nissa can be ignored as a matter of fact I've won some games where they ultimate Nissa. If you have to choose between countering a Nissa or wait for a Gideon always hold your counterspell. If G/W is big at your LGS swapping some or all of the spatial contortion with Roast could be a good move to counter advocate and pacifist.
Yeah, I've never found myself boarding out the third Drowner. That is always a mistake. I can't imagine a reasoning behind it.
Frankly, I still don't see how G/W tokens is anywhere near a fair matchup. I've been destroyed every bloody game against it. They have that right mix of early ground pounders with late game relevance coupled with highpowered must-answer mid game threats that just makes it almost impossible to beat. You simply cannot afford to miss a beat against them, and a single bad draw (Let alone a series of them, which this deck can have) will leave you very dead very fast.
The worst match up (IMHO almost unwinnable) for this deck is actually G/x ramp. That match up is worse than miserable.
Now this I have to disagree with. It's not a phenomenal match-up, but you I have yet to have serious problem against it. The important cards in the matchup are Counterspells, Anticipate, Mage-Ring, and Ulamog. Literally nothing else matters. Counterspells can grind them to a complete hault, and you should be concerned with *only* hitting their ramp spells. Every ramp spell should be countered when possible. So long as you don't miss land drops, you will get to your needed land drops for Ulamog before they do due to a naturally higher land count, Anticipate, and Mage-Ring. That said, you *really* need to be the first person to cast an Ulamog. If you are, it's pretty much a cake-walk from there.
Frankly, I've found that taking out both Chandras in the match-up is often correct. You won't be racing them down much at all with her. The regular 3 drowners are left in just for incidental ramping/tapdown if need be.
It's a manageable match up from my experience, and you only really will lose it if they natural draw the lands they need. You really should be aggressively mulliganing hands without disruption.
My experience with ramp is it just doesn't matter if you counter their ramp because they have Worldbreaker on turn 7 that will set us back from Ulamog and if they trigger sanctum it's just lights out. I'm going to practice more against ramp but to me it's just a miserable match up. I'd rather face G/W tokens than ramp any day.
The thing is that we will get to our Ulamog before they get to their Worldbreaker if you focus down their ramp. The reason being that G/R ramp typically runs a few fewer land than we do, and don't run an extra 4 ramping lands in the turn of Mage Ring network. They can't stop us from casting our Archives or ticking up Mage Ring, and they only have about a 20% chance to hit their 7th land on turn 7, whereas we have closer to 25%. Couple this with having access to Anticipate to ensure we can get what we need when we need it, and it's a tad more favorable for us to get to 10 mana before they get to 7 (Due to Temples, Mage Rings, and Archives all being met with no resistance). Even if they *do* get to 7 for the Worldbreaker, we can still ramp through it with Drowners.
If you focus down their Ramp early, you can keep them completely out of the game with Ulamogs. Like I said, the only cards that we care about doing anything about in the MU is the Ramp. If we can slow them down to a reasonable clip we can get to just as much mana just as quickly as they will, with the caveat that we will be more consistent at doing so. The only cards that matter in our deck is the Countermagic, Anticipate, ramp (Either through lands or archives, with drowners being useful as well), and Ulamog. Everything else? Doesn't matter. I would suggest boarding out at least 1 of Chandra and Jace, and likely both Chandras to be honest. She's not a hard enough clock to beat the deck, and doesn't actively stop them. Jace can be useful, so leaving one in might not be bad. Still, I would rather have all the negates and Thought-Knots I can get my hand on.
Hey guys, what do you think of the new Emrakul for this deck? Seems like EM would be good as a way to buy time, gain info on OPs hand, and run their biggest threat into EM on the controlled turn. Also, since EM has cost reduction, we'd potentially be able to cast EM with counter mana up for the OPs extra turn.
How much of a discount do you think we can reliably get? Anything less than 4 and its probably better to play Ulamog, imo.
Yeah, I posted in G/R ramp after this and looking between the two decks, G/R would be better at the cost reduction than U/R. This deck favors instants, while G/R has a bit of everything. G/R can even do enchantments better due to Oath of Nissa.
Maybe a U/R variant with the Pyromancer's Goggles engine would be better suited? Gonna need to test things out.
Edit: Overzealous in wanting to discuss EM. I'll patiently wait for the full set.
Yeah, I'm not saying we rule anything out. A 13/13 flying trample is still no joke, it just depends on how well you can screw your opponent over before they get their extra turn.
I think Todd sideboarded horrendously in those matches. He definitely should not have sideboarded out the Drowner, if anything he should have brought in the 4th one. From my own experience the G/W tokens match up is definitely not favorable but not too terrible either it's pretty close to 50/50 actually. The key here is not to let them resolve gideon and Avacyn. Nissa can be ignored as a matter of fact I've won some games where they ultimate Nissa. If you have to choose between countering a Nissa or wait for a Gideon always hold your counterspell. If G/W is big at your LGS swapping some or all of the spatial contortion with Roast could be a good move to counter advocate and pacifist.
Yeah, I've never found myself boarding out the third Drowner. That is always a mistake. I can't imagine a reasoning behind it.
Frankly, I still don't see how G/W tokens is anywhere near a fair matchup. I've been destroyed every bloody game against it. They have that right mix of early ground pounders with late game relevance coupled with highpowered must-answer mid game threats that just makes it almost impossible to beat. You simply cannot afford to miss a beat against them, and a single bad draw (Let alone a series of them, which this deck can have) will leave you very dead very fast.
The worst match up (IMHO almost unwinnable) for this deck is actually G/x ramp. That match up is worse than miserable.
Now this I have to disagree with. It's not a phenomenal match-up, but you I have yet to have serious problem against it. The important cards in the matchup are Counterspells, Anticipate, Mage-Ring, and Ulamog. Literally nothing else matters. Counterspells can grind them to a complete hault, and you should be concerned with *only* hitting their ramp spells. Every ramp spell should be countered when possible. So long as you don't miss land drops, you will get to your needed land drops for Ulamog before they do due to a naturally higher land count, Anticipate, and Mage-Ring. That said, you *really* need to be the first person to cast an Ulamog. If you are, it's pretty much a cake-walk from there.
Frankly, I've found that taking out both Chandras in the match-up is often correct. You won't be racing them down much at all with her. The regular 3 drowners are left in just for incidental ramping/tapdown if need be.
It's a manageable match up from my experience, and you only really will lose it if they natural draw the lands they need. You really should be aggressively mulliganing hands without disruption.
My experience with ramp is it just doesn't matter if you counter their ramp because they have Worldbreaker on turn 7 that will set us back from Ulamog and if they trigger sanctum it's just lights out. I'm going to practice more against ramp but to me it's just a miserable match up. I'd rather face G/W tokens than ramp any day.
The thing is that we will get to our Ulamog before they get to their Worldbreaker if you focus down their ramp. The reason being that G/R ramp typically runs a few fewer land than we do, and don't run an extra 4 ramping lands in the turn of Mage Ring network. They can't stop us from casting our Archives or ticking up Mage Ring, and they only have about a 20% chance to hit their 7th land on turn 7, whereas we have closer to 25%. Couple this with having access to Anticipate to ensure we can get what we need when we need it, and it's a tad more favorable for us to get to 10 mana before they get to 7 (Due to Temples, Mage Rings, and Archives all being met with no resistance). Even if they *do* get to 7 for the Worldbreaker, we can still ramp through it with Drowners.
If you focus down their Ramp early, you can keep them completely out of the game with Ulamogs. Like I said, the only cards that we care about doing anything about in the MU is the Ramp. If we can slow them down to a reasonable clip we can get to just as much mana just as quickly as they will, with the caveat that we will be more consistent at doing so. The only cards that matter in our deck is the Countermagic, Anticipate, ramp (Either through lands or archives, with drowners being useful as well), and Ulamog. Everything else? Doesn't matter. I would suggest boarding out at least 1 of Chandra and Jace, and likely both Chandras to be honest. She's not a hard enough clock to beat the deck, and doesn't actively stop them. Jace can be useful, so leaving one in might not be bad. Still, I would rather have all the negates and Thought-Knots I can get my hand on.
I've played as GR ramp vs the UR list, and I have never felt like it was a bad match-up. The guy who's been piloting it used to be a GR ramp player, so he knows what needs to be countered etc etc. It's a still a bad matchup. Most GR lists have 26 lands to the 27-28 lands in the UR list. If you keep a land heavy hand with 1-2 big eldrazi, it doesn't matter because worldbreaker comes down before ulamog, and even if you counter-exile the breaker or ulamog, there goes your lands. Sure against an opponent that keeps the 2-3 lander with some ramp spells and a threat, counter magic and making land drops will win, but then you're also probably playing against a less skilled opponent, so you're already favored. G1 favors GR and it just gets better after sideboard because I can side out all the cards are worthless in the MU for more low-cost threats.
That's cool! And cements me into straight U/R. I ran URg last night and the mana is just so awkward. The additional tapped lands of Lumbering Falls was the tipping point, always felt a mana short due to ETB tapped lands. Going to run U/R from here.
I've seen some lists do it. I've personally been finding myself siding in the fourth Drowner more often than not, so I think it might be correct. I honestly can't think of a matchup where drawing more Drowners is bad.
The loss of Worldbreakers is likely the reason for this. Honestly, I feel the deck has more okay matchups and fewer great ones. That said, the biggest draw the deck has over G/R ramp is two fold: First, it has few truly terrible match ups, and it also has significantly better consistency due to no needing to run 15 or so truly useless cards if topdecked. I feel the biggest reason for this is Anticipate, which is the perfect card at any point in the game.
what do this deck's matchups look like?
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/428844#online
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
It just went 4-3 in a recent PTQ : http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/429812#online
It could actually work but I guess that it will be harder to tune that our current UR list. Speaking of which, Artificer's Epiphany looks amazing to keep digging and most of the time it won't have any downside. I will definitely test it tonight.
Going for a third color splash also heavily incentives you to always have Anticipate on hand, as well. To be frank I don't think the straight U/R builds can afford to go less than a full four, and a three color build needs it more to find the lands it needs. Having 4 Void Shatters and 2 Spell Shrivels is two too many; while I won't say which is correct (As they both have their merits), I will say that you probably want to cut it down to a total of 4 in some combination (And replace them with 2 more Anticipates; I *am* going to beat this dead horse constantly as I feel it is one of the best things going for the deck and its consistency).
On the subject of a splash, however, I am wondering what a white splash would do for Displacer (As I don't think you can make the mana work for Gideons or Avacyn's without serious reworks). Being able to blink a Drowner seems extremely strong, and locking out attackers and having some decent game against tokens could be useful. Not sure what the mana base would look like, or the list.
Sadly after many many many games of testing I've found that G/W Tokens and Humans give the deck a harder time that I originally thought.It's not a bad deck, but unlike the last 2 decks mentioned, this one isn't as consistent and a resolved walker like Gideon is a beating. That said it's not completely hopeless sometimes you do really crush, and other times your counterspells look bad off curve.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Todd was using the initial U/R decklist with the 3/3 split of Ulamogs and Drowners. And yeah, the games were very lopsided. As I watched them, I kept thinking of how the games would have played if Todd had access to World Breaker for the Hangarbacks and as an extra way to trigger Kozilek's return. Since Brad's deck was running minimal interaction, World Breaker's def would have made a difference.
Still looking forward to trying the updated list out; my LGS isn't big on G/W tokens, so games will be better.
The worst match up (IMHO almost unwinnable) for this deck is actually G/x ramp. That match up is worse than miserable.
Yeah, I've never found myself boarding out the third Drowner. That is always a mistake. I can't imagine a reasoning behind it.
Frankly, I still don't see how G/W tokens is anywhere near a fair matchup. I've been destroyed every bloody game against it. They have that right mix of early ground pounders with late game relevance coupled with highpowered must-answer mid game threats that just makes it almost impossible to beat. You simply cannot afford to miss a beat against them, and a single bad draw (Let alone a series of them, which this deck can have) will leave you very dead very fast.
Now this I have to disagree with. It's not a phenomenal match-up, but you I have yet to have serious problem against it. The important cards in the matchup are Counterspells, Anticipate, Mage-Ring, and Ulamog. Literally nothing else matters. Counterspells can grind them to a complete hault, and you should be concerned with *only* hitting their ramp spells. Every ramp spell should be countered when possible. So long as you don't miss land drops, you will get to your needed land drops for Ulamog before they do due to a naturally higher land count, Anticipate, and Mage-Ring. That said, you *really* need to be the first person to cast an Ulamog. If you are, it's pretty much a cake-walk from there.
Frankly, I've found that taking out both Chandras in the match-up is often correct. You won't be racing them down much at all with her. The regular 3 drowners are left in just for incidental ramping/tapdown if need be.
It's a manageable match up from my experience, and you only really will lose it if they natural draw the lands they need. You really should be aggressively mulliganing hands without disruption.
The thing is that we will get to our Ulamog before they get to their Worldbreaker if you focus down their ramp. The reason being that G/R ramp typically runs a few fewer land than we do, and don't run an extra 4 ramping lands in the turn of Mage Ring network. They can't stop us from casting our Archives or ticking up Mage Ring, and they only have about a 20% chance to hit their 7th land on turn 7, whereas we have closer to 25%. Couple this with having access to Anticipate to ensure we can get what we need when we need it, and it's a tad more favorable for us to get to 10 mana before they get to 7 (Due to Temples, Mage Rings, and Archives all being met with no resistance). Even if they *do* get to 7 for the Worldbreaker, we can still ramp through it with Drowners.
If you focus down their Ramp early, you can keep them completely out of the game with Ulamogs. Like I said, the only cards that we care about doing anything about in the MU is the Ramp. If we can slow them down to a reasonable clip we can get to just as much mana just as quickly as they will, with the caveat that we will be more consistent at doing so. The only cards that matter in our deck is the Countermagic, Anticipate, ramp (Either through lands or archives, with drowners being useful as well), and Ulamog. Everything else? Doesn't matter. I would suggest boarding out at least 1 of Chandra and Jace, and likely both Chandras to be honest. She's not a hard enough clock to beat the deck, and doesn't actively stop them. Jace can be useful, so leaving one in might not be bad. Still, I would rather have all the negates and Thought-Knots I can get my hand on.
Hey guys, what do you think of the new Emrakul for this deck? Seems like EM would be good as a way to buy time, gain info on OPs hand, and run their biggest threat into EM on the controlled turn. Also, since EM has cost reduction, we'd potentially be able to cast EM with counter mana up for the OPs extra turn.
How much of a discount do you think we can reliably get? Anything less than 4 and its probably better to play Ulamog, imo.Yeah, I posted in G/R ramp after this and looking between the two decks, G/R would be better at the cost reduction than U/R. This deck favors instants, while G/R has a bit of everything. G/R can even do enchantments better due to Oath of Nissa.
Maybe a U/R variant with the Pyromancer's Goggles engine would be better suited? Gonna need to test things out.
Edit: Overzealous in wanting to discuss EM. I'll patiently wait for the full set.
Yeah, I'm not saying we rule anything out. A 13/13 flying trample is still no joke, it just depends on how well you can screw your opponent over before they get their extra turn.Sorry, forgot the new card discussion rules!
I've played as GR ramp vs the UR list, and I have never felt like it was a bad match-up. The guy who's been piloting it used to be a GR ramp player, so he knows what needs to be countered etc etc. It's a still a bad matchup. Most GR lists have 26 lands to the 27-28 lands in the UR list. If you keep a land heavy hand with 1-2 big eldrazi, it doesn't matter because worldbreaker comes down before ulamog, and even if you counter-exile the breaker or ulamog, there goes your lands. Sure against an opponent that keeps the 2-3 lander with some ramp spells and a threat, counter magic and making land drops will win, but then you're also probably playing against a less skilled opponent, so you're already favored. G1 favors GR and it just gets better after sideboard because I can side out all the cards are worthless in the MU for more low-cost threats.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/wmcq-top-8-decklists/Philippines-June-2016