Need HELP against BW Control!! I think the match is pretty bad, and almost make me drop the grixis train. How do you win this match in game one, and post sideboard? Thank you!
I have 3 Fevered Visions SB for them post board. Don't take out Grasp or Ruinous Path as they bring in Thought-Knot and sometimes Reality Smasher. Silumgar, Silumgar's Command, and Negate comes in against them. Other good options can be Grip of Desolation to hit Westvale Abbey before a flip. Its tought but not completely unwinable.
What does everyone think of replacing the mainboard Dragonlord Silumgar with Pia and Kiran Nalaar? I feel Silumgar was good when Esper was big with planeswalkers and dragons but I never see those decks anymore and I never want to cast him and always want board him out game 2. After seeing LSV's list I run two P&K in the side and everytime they either decided the game or created enough blockers for me to live against humans decks till I could dig for answers. Late game is insane as well being able to swing for 4 damage alone and throw 2 thopters for 4 more damage is great, and that's not counting if you don't already have a GDD on the field.
Had P&K in my sideboard for a bit. Absolute garbage every time, so I couldn't disagree more.
I have 3 Fevered Visions SB for them post board. Don't take out Grasp or Ruinous Path as they bring in Thought-Knot and sometimes Reality Smasher. Silumgar, Silumgar's Command, and Negate comes in against them. Other good options can be Grip of Desolation to hit Westvale Abbey before a flip. Its tought but not completely unwinable.
I've also been struggling with BW Control, but this is sage advice. A friend also suggested we should be choosing to be on the draw when possible, not the play. Thoughts?
Could this deck become Grixis Madness Control with the release of the upcoming set? Already we have Jace, Lightning Axe, Tormenting Voice as outlets, we have the 4/4 for Madness 3, we have Fiery Temper, we could run Curious Homuncullus as a cheap beater and allows us to play everything cheaper. Is this a new direction for the deck potentially or is it too gimmicky?
Hey guys, been giving it a long thought, and I just might sideline my MU prison for a bit since I already have most of the cards for this deck, just missing JVP's, Kcommand and at least 1 kalitas. How Important would you say JVP is? The problem with him is, most people that got him, got him for almost double the current price, so they're VERY reluctant to sell/trade, which is driving up the prices again, at least locally. I can't really order a playset online, since most sites won't ship where I live
Would new Liliana, the Last Hope be a decent replacement? I mean, her +1 is better than JVP, her -2 is arguably worse, and it doesn't take that long to hit a game winning ult, and she's another delirium enabler, in case we wanna run some of those cards later.
Edit: Also Bedlam Reveler looks like a sick addition to the archetype. No good bolts at the moment, but a nice beater.
Anyways, looking forward to contributing to the thread.
I'm a bit of a sucker for toolboxes. My sideboard chenges from week to week, and my most recent iteration has a ton of 1-of's to try out, plus an extra Dark Petition to find them.
I was excited to try out Bedlam Reveler because I've been a little leery of casting and re-casting Read the Bones for card draw. He's a great threat to play after you've spent all your removal on their early guys, and keeps everything in the bin to be re-used by Jace and Dark-Dwellers.
I have had a chance to refine this over several fmn's and I top 8'd a small local gpt over the weekend. I was able to ult lili several times, once against a bant coco player. It was very satisfying, the card is amazing.
I realize this is away from what is current main stream thinking but so far I am liking it as a control deck instead of a Jund deck that plays blue cards. I also think Jace is just not very good in the current format. I admit that it looks like a lot of 1 and two ofs but the concentration density of cards that do a thing is maintained and the variance between the cards adds flexability and some of them overlap in utility between slot types.
I tried to work with a density of less than 8 spells that move me through the deck and at 7 I can still stall out. I wish I could net a few more cards but the available spells are just not super optimal for the moment. I also wanted to keep as much instant speed interaction as possible to force the tempo players to play on my terms.
The spells in the deck are also partly chosen for curve vs mana base development speed. You may not always get to 3 on curve but you still have relevant plays. Also woth noting, the Sanitarium has been amazing despite the symetrical effect.
maybe you should try it with self mill zombies and Mindwrack Demon. I think you'll miss having Ishkanah, Grafwidow in your deck since you're running grixis, but you can definitely fill the GY fast in black and blue.
Anyone running a list like the SOI one but tailored for post PTEMN meta? As far as I can tell we were well positioned against Bant abd Humans with our removal but nothing touches the larger Eldrazi except Path.
Anyone running a list like the SOI one but tailored for post PTEMN meta? As far as I can tell we were well positioned against Bant abd Humans with our removal but nothing touches the larger Eldrazi except Path.
This is actually a problem I've been thinking of as well. Aside from lightning axe and roast, we don't have any burn spells that would effectively deal with big emerge creatures like elder deep fiend. Would bouncing those kinds of things be better via unsubstantiate? Also acts as a psuedo counterspell.
Anyone running a list like the SOI one but tailored for post PTEMN meta? As far as I can tell we were well positioned against Bant abd Humans with our removal but nothing touches the larger Eldrazi except Path.
This is actually a problem I've been thinking of as well. Aside from lightning axe and roast, we don't have any burn spells that would effectively deal with big emerge creatures like elder deep fiend. Would bouncing those kinds of things be better via unsubstantiate? Also acts as a psuedo counterspell.
bouncing EDF sounds downright stupid. just use Murder.
I came in second place at my 22-person Game Day yesterday with this list. Keep in mind that I came in second because of pilot error--the last match was with someone playing BG delirium I had beaten 2-0 in swiss round 2, but in my infinite wisdom I kept a dodgy hand for the last game.
I added a single Learn From the Past at the last minute as super-secret tech against graveyard degeneracy. I had it at the ready at one point, but didn't need to cast it before I had run away with the game.
What does everyone think about replacing Fiery Impulse and/or Galvanic Bombardment with Incendiary Flow? It's not an instant, but it hits for 3 and exiles creatures in a format where nothing wants to stay dead. I'm definitely at least going to try it out next FNM.
I think 2 incendiary flow can be used from the side or maybe 1 main depending on how many matter reshapers/zombies lists you anticipate facing. at the end of the day it is still a 2 mana sorcery and that hurts it a little if you are playing with counter spells.
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I made some moves to attack the Token Monster..
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Olivia, Mobilized for War
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Ultimate Price
2 Read the Bones
3 Grasp of Darkness
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Radiant Flames
3 Ruinous Path
2 Transgress the Mind
3 Shivan Reef
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Island
4 Mountain
6 Swamp
2 Sunken Hollow
3 Smoldering Marsh
3 Foreboding Ruins
Side Board
2 Dragonmaster Outcast
3 Duress
2 Virulent Plague
1 Dark Petition
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Languish
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Radiant Flames
2 Crumble to Dust
With out Thing in the Ice I was hitting 5/5. But I was thinking with Ice we have a early blocker and once flip it will become a board wipe.
P.s Vampires will rule plus alot of flyers helps too.
Crumble to dust will do the job also
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Had P&K in my sideboard for a bit. Absolute garbage every time, so I couldn't disagree more.
I've also been struggling with BW Control, but this is sage advice. A friend also suggested we should be choosing to be on the draw when possible, not the play. Thoughts?
Would new Liliana, the Last Hope be a decent replacement? I mean, her +1 is better than JVP, her -2 is arguably worse, and it doesn't take that long to hit a game winning ult, and she's another delirium enabler, in case we wanna run some of those cards later.
Edit: Also Bedlam Reveler looks like a sick addition to the archetype. No good bolts at the moment, but a nice beater.
Anyways, looking forward to contributing to the thread.
Cheers!
4 Evolving Wilds
6 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Island
3 Foreboding Ruins
3 Smoldering Marsh
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Choked Estuary
2 Shivan Reef
3 Wandering Fumarole
Creatures (13)
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Bedlam Reveler
1 Fathom Feeder
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
3 Duress
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Mind Rot
1 Radiant Flames
2 Ruinous Path
1 Dark Petition
1 Burn from Within
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Invasive Surgery
1 To the Slaughter
1 Dark Petition
1 Radiant Flames
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Silumgar's Command
1 Crumble to Dust
3 Negate
2 Virulent Plague
I'm a bit of a sucker for toolboxes. My sideboard chenges from week to week, and my most recent iteration has a ton of 1-of's to try out, plus an extra Dark Petition to find them.
I was excited to try out Bedlam Reveler because I've been a little leery of casting and re-casting Read the Bones for card draw. He's a great threat to play after you've spent all your removal on their early guys, and keeps everything in the bin to be re-used by Jace and Dark-Dwellers.
I like the list, very close to ground with lots of cheap removal
Youtube Channel
I realize this is away from what is current main stream thinking but so far I am liking it as a control deck instead of a Jund deck that plays blue cards. I also think Jace is just not very good in the current format. I admit that it looks like a lot of 1 and two ofs but the concentration density of cards that do a thing is maintained and the variance between the cards adds flexability and some of them overlap in utility between slot types.
4 walkers
3 creatures
8 spot removal
2 sweepers
5 counterspells
8 card draw
3 Hand disruption
I tried to work with a density of less than 8 spells that move me through the deck and at 7 I can still stall out. I wish I could net a few more cards but the available spells are just not super optimal for the moment. I also wanted to keep as much instant speed interaction as possible to force the tempo players to play on my terms.
The spells in the deck are also partly chosen for curve vs mana base development speed. You may not always get to 3 on curve but you still have relevant plays. Also woth noting, the Sanitarium has been amazing despite the symetrical effect.
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
Creatures 3
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Spells 26
2 Fiery Impulse
2 Grasp of Darkness
1 Ultimate Price
2 Ruinous Path
1 Murder
2 Languish
1 Duress
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Negate
1 Horribly Awry
2 Void Shatter
1 Silumgar's Command
4 Anticipate
1 Succumb to Temptation
1 Artificer's Epiphany
2 Pore over the Pages
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
4 Wandering Fumarole
3 Smoldering Marsh
2 Foreboding Ruins
3 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Shivan Reef
1 Mage-Ring Network
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rending Volley
1 Learn From the Past
1 To the Slaughter
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Infinite Obliteration
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Radiant Flames
4 Eternal Scourge
Long Live Bolas...
Yep tried it with contingency plan & oath of jace. Result was kinda underwhelming.
This is actually a problem I've been thinking of as well. Aside from lightning axe and roast, we don't have any burn spells that would effectively deal with big emerge creatures like elder deep fiend. Would bouncing those kinds of things be better via unsubstantiate? Also acts as a psuedo counterspell.
bouncing EDF sounds downright stupid. just use Murder.
Youtube Channel
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
Instants (7)
3 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Ultimate Price
2 Grasp of Darkness
1 Kolaghan's Command
Sorceries (11)
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Read the Bones
3 Ruinous Path
2 Radiant Flames
1 Languish
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Lands (26)
1 Island
1 Shivan Reef
1 Sunken Hollow
2 Choked Estuary
2 Wandering Fumarole
3 Evolving Wilds
3 Foreboding Ruins
3 Mountain
3 Smoldering Marsh
7 Swamp
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Ultimate Price
2 Negate
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Murder
1 Pick the Brain
1 Radiant Flames
1 Learn From the Past
2 Languish
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Silumgar's Command
I added a single Learn From the Past at the last minute as super-secret tech against graveyard degeneracy. I had it at the ready at one point, but didn't need to cast it before I had run away with the game.
What does everyone think about replacing Fiery Impulse and/or Galvanic Bombardment with Incendiary Flow? It's not an instant, but it hits for 3 and exiles creatures in a format where nothing wants to stay dead. I'm definitely at least going to try it out next FNM.