I think 2 is minimum but 3 is correct in my opinion. Most games it feels like you're just digging frantically for Goggles and then once you find them you turn a corner and it's like you can't lose.
Why is crush of tentacles not in the deck it seems strong enough and easy enough to trigger surge. Has anyone tested it, and if so how was it?
As mentioned, Crush of Tentacles is rather slow, and oftentimes will affect your more than it affects your opponent. The card is appealing, considering it can destroy Clue tokens.
I am looking to build a Jeskai version of this for Radiant flames, (2MD 1SB), Nahiri (2), Dec in stone (1-2), Linvala and Planar outburst in the sideboard. What cards are the least vital to diluting the game plan, for me to take out?
So what's everyone thinking about on splashing a third color? Me personally ally I think black is the way to go. Gsin hard removal and threats interaction between goggles and kcommand seems insane.
Here's something I've tested along with a jund build that utilizes alot of the same type of removal and draw effects ur control does
Well as far as splashing is concerned apparently green for Atarka's command is a bad idea. So, after going back to the drawing board I realized that since we are already running 7-9 colorless sources the most realistic splash is colorless for eldrazi spells, specifically for me Matter Reshaper. It's additional card draw on a stick that sometimes gives you your Jace, TitI or Jori En for free. I'm going to start out with 2 and see how that goes. Any thoughts on this?
I know this discussion was had a couple pages back sort of, but what's the obsession with the one Anticipate. I love the card, but to me it either fits or it doesn't. It just seems weird to me that so many people think it's fine to play 1 but nobody plays more? It may be personal preference but I hate playing 1 of anything in my decks. It seems so inconsistent and if you care so little that you draw it shouldn't something else be in it's place?
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I know this discussion was had a couple pages back sort of, but what's the obsession with the one Anticipate. I love the card, but to me it either fits or it doesn't. It just seems weird to me that so many people think it's fine to play 1 but nobody plays more? It may be personal preference but I hate playing 1 of anything in my decks. It seems so inconsistent and if you care so little that you draw it shouldn't something else be in it's place?
1 Anticipate singlehandedly gives the Deck ability to keep otherwise mulliganable hands, going to 5 - 6 cards is better when you have 1 Anticipate in hand and 1 Scry.
Not 2 Anticipates, because Anticipating and ever seeing another Anticipate, is lackluster.
Also, Anticipate enables Surge well, and often comes in the Clutch finding crucial cards.
Well as far as splashing is concerned apparently green for Atarka's command is a bad idea. So, after going back to the drawing board I realized that since we are already running 7-9 colorless sources the most realistic splash is colorless for eldrazi spells, specifically for me Matter Reshaper. It's additional card draw on a stick that sometimes gives you your Jace, TitI or Jori En for free. I'm going to start out with 2 and see how that goes. Any thoughts on this?
I'd look at colorless spells before I looked at creatures, maybe Warping Wail as removal for cards like opposing Thing in the Ice and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (as well as a lot of the white weenie creatures) and to counter sweepers and sorcery speed removal (which is everywhere because of Declaration in Stone being insane). I don't think Matter Reshaper really does much, and what do we cut for it? Sure, it draws us a card and might put something cheap into play... Or it could just be another card draw effect or removal spell which furthers the deck's game plan a lot more than a 3/2 body does. With Jace, Goggles and Thing in the Ice as the core of the deck and what we're building around, an instant or sorcery will almost always be better. In addition, Reshaper costing three is a lot to pay considering we're paying a max of two mana for all our other spells aside from Goggles and our fireballs. Playing more creatures sort of takes the deck in another direction entirely.
The only color I can see us splashing (other than "colorless") to any effect is white for Ojutai's Command, which we can use to recur our threats and draw more cards. The downside is we can't copy it with Goggles, so I don't think the splash is worth it. I don't really like Nahiri (in any deck, not just this one; I think she's garbage) and I don't think Declaration in Stone is something we want. Every option for adding a third color just makes the deck so much less consistent and considerably worse, in my opinion. I just don't see the need. I think our time is better spent finely tuning the spells we do play and in what numbers rather than trying to force a third color in. As I said, though, that's just my opinion and I can see potential for the colorless splash above anything else, though I still don't think it's worth it as far as the main deck goes.
Yeah, I don't see what Matter Reshaper does for us; it's just a guy that cantrips.
White definitely seems like the best color to splash. I'm still worried about the mana, but Joe made a decent case for it (and you don't need white until turn 4). I may try a variation of his list.
Can't help but feel like the introduction of a splash color would mean too many tapped lands entering the battlefield. If the deck is looking to have more game against fast decks (like W/x humans), I don't see a manabase built on Evolving Wilds as the way to do it.
Maybe there's a build that leans a little heavier on blue, and that opens up Prairie Stream and/or Port Town as ways to splash white "for free," but then you have to balance enough red sources to cast your burn and Voices/Insights in a timely manner. The mana really needs to be pinpoint.
Can't help but feel like the introduction of a splash color would mean too many tapped lands entering the battlefield. If the deck is looking to have more game against fast decks (like W/x humans), I don't see a manabase built on Evolving Wilds as the way to do it.
Maybe there's a build that leans a little heavier on blue, and that opens up Prairie Stream and/or Port Town as ways to splash white "for free," but then you have to balance enough red sources to cast your burn and Voices/Insights in a timely manner. The mana really needs to be pinpoint.
There are the same number of tapped lands in Joe's build as in Todd's (7). The Prairie Streams are conditional, of course.
In order to splash you have to cut down on drownyard temples, which means in the slower midrange matchups and agaisnt coco you lost the ability to t4 goggles or t5 chandra as consistantly, which in those matchups having a t4 goggles is backbreaking, I dont think we get enough from the splash to remove that interaction alone, however, playing some eldrazi or coloroess spells out of the board or something could be a sweet gotcha plan for this weekend or something. I just wish there were more great copyable red spells.
I have replaced the single Jori En, Ruin Diver with a single Oath of Jace since I am playing the white splash. Nahiri along with Jace and Chandra means it's not uncommon when I see it that I get to use the scry and it's another deck thinner. Jori also doesn't play very well with a Radiant Flames for 3. I don't think I would play more but I have liked it as a substitute.
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Warping wail is 150% on my list of cards to try this upcoming FNM, if i make it. Dont forget, you can cycle it for a scion as pseudo ramp as well. when i splashed white, i removed the drownyard temples, and it felt fine, i cant remember feeling strained on mana. But i also ran to Battlefield Forge. I like the idea of wail, but i also think that not playing 2 or 3 copies of impulse in the main is foolish.
cutting some durdle and adding three impulse main was the first thing I did when I picked up the deck, wouldnt go back now, card is to good right now, and with goggles out it pretty much kills anything
haven't been around much this week to post here or do much testing but I'm glad to see the thread is still going. I will be playing in an event on Saturday and will write another report afterward.
as I was celebrating the holiday yesterday, the thought of commune with lava crossed my mind. what do we think of this card? could dig for massive amounts of cards on the opponents endstep with goggles in play if you really need to hit something nice. also seems like it would ensure a flip of thing in the ice if you see more than 4 cards. I might convince myself to use 1 on Saturday along with a few other odds and ends, geistblast being another singleton I am interested in seeing in action.
haven't been around much this week to post here or do much testing but I'm glad to see the thread is still going. I will be playing in an event on Saturday and will write another report afterward.
as I was celebrating the holiday yesterday, the thought of commune with lava crossed my mind. what do we think of this card? could dig for massive amounts of cards on the opponents endstep with goggles in play if you really need to hit something nice. also seems like it would ensure a flip of thing in the ice if you see more than 4 cards. I might convince myself to use 1 on Saturday along with a few other odds and ends, geistblast being another singleton I am interested in seeing in action.
I can't speak to the effectiveness of Commune with Lava, but I did have a miser's Geistblast in my list for some of my testing. I never seemed to have 2U sitting around to copy something impactful, and the spell itself was also lackluster in its efficiency. I eventually cut it for a Fiery Impulse.
Noah Walker — Dedicated to mill. Oath of Jace triggers Sphinx's Tutelage, fuels Jace flip, and enables Madness.
No Fall of the Titans, or Goggles in the deck.
Geoff Mullin — A Dragons variant. Thunderbreak is strong, Draconic Roar can kill and burn a creature, syncs well with Goggles.
No Thing in the Ice in the 75.
Two lists from Todd Anderson today over on SCG Premium. He took his deck through a Standard League on MTGO and then followed up with a list with suggested changes. Haven't watched the videos yet, so no idea what his record is BUT here's his lists:
4 Island
7 Mountain
4 Drownyard Temple
3 Highland Lake
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wandering Fumarole
Creatures (9)
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Jori En, Ruin Diver
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Spells (23)
2 Fall of the Titans
1 Fiery Impulse
4 Fiery Temper
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Lightning Axe
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
3 Magmatic Insight
4 Tormenting Voice
4 Fevered Visions
2 Dispel
4 Negate
3 Rending Volley
1 Jori En, Ruin Diver
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32780_The-Return-To-Normalcy.html
So the only change from Todd's Friday article was -1 Anticipate +1 Impulse
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
As mentioned, Crush of Tentacles is rather slow, and oftentimes will affect your more than it affects your opponent. The card is appealing, considering it can destroy Clue tokens.
Here's something I've tested along with a jund build that utilizes alot of the same type of removal and draw effects ur control does
4 Thing in the Ice
1 Jori en, ruin diver
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Fiery Temper
3 Lightning Axe
2 Kolaghan's command
2 Fall of the Titans
2 Fiery Impulse
4 Tormenting Voice
2 Magmatic Insight
1 Radiant Flames
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Wandering Furmoale
3 Shivan Reef
3 Smoldering Marsh
2 Foreboding Ruins
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Choked Estuary
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Mountain
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Roast
2 Radiant flames
2 Tears of Valakut
2 From Under the floorboard
3 Negate
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Battlefield Forge
3 Drownyard Temple
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Island
6 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Prairie Stream
3 Shivan Reef
3 Wandering Fumarole
Creatures (8)
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Spells (22)
1 Anticipate
2 Fall of the Titans
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Axe
3 Magmatic Insight
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
1 Radiant Flames
4 Tormenting Voice
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Dispel
4 Fevered Visions
2 Negate
1 Ojutai's Command
1 Radiant Flames
2 Rending Volley
2 Void Shatter
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
1 Anticipate singlehandedly gives the Deck ability to keep otherwise mulliganable hands, going to 5 - 6 cards is better when you have 1 Anticipate in hand and 1 Scry.
Not 2 Anticipates, because Anticipating and ever seeing another Anticipate, is lackluster.
Also, Anticipate enables Surge well, and often comes in the Clutch finding crucial cards.
I'd look at colorless spells before I looked at creatures, maybe Warping Wail as removal for cards like opposing Thing in the Ice and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (as well as a lot of the white weenie creatures) and to counter sweepers and sorcery speed removal (which is everywhere because of Declaration in Stone being insane). I don't think Matter Reshaper really does much, and what do we cut for it? Sure, it draws us a card and might put something cheap into play... Or it could just be another card draw effect or removal spell which furthers the deck's game plan a lot more than a 3/2 body does. With Jace, Goggles and Thing in the Ice as the core of the deck and what we're building around, an instant or sorcery will almost always be better. In addition, Reshaper costing three is a lot to pay considering we're paying a max of two mana for all our other spells aside from Goggles and our fireballs. Playing more creatures sort of takes the deck in another direction entirely.
The only color I can see us splashing (other than "colorless") to any effect is white for Ojutai's Command, which we can use to recur our threats and draw more cards. The downside is we can't copy it with Goggles, so I don't think the splash is worth it. I don't really like Nahiri (in any deck, not just this one; I think she's garbage) and I don't think Declaration in Stone is something we want. Every option for adding a third color just makes the deck so much less consistent and considerably worse, in my opinion. I just don't see the need. I think our time is better spent finely tuning the spells we do play and in what numbers rather than trying to force a third color in. As I said, though, that's just my opinion and I can see potential for the colorless splash above anything else, though I still don't think it's worth it as far as the main deck goes.
White definitely seems like the best color to splash. I'm still worried about the mana, but Joe made a decent case for it (and you don't need white until turn 4). I may try a variation of his list.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Maybe there's a build that leans a little heavier on blue, and that opens up Prairie Stream and/or Port Town as ways to splash white "for free," but then you have to balance enough red sources to cast your burn and Voices/Insights in a timely manner. The mana really needs to be pinpoint.
There are the same number of tapped lands in Joe's build as in Todd's (7). The Prairie Streams are conditional, of course.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
We will rebuild.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
We will rebuild.
as I was celebrating the holiday yesterday, the thought of commune with lava crossed my mind. what do we think of this card? could dig for massive amounts of cards on the opponents endstep with goggles in play if you really need to hit something nice. also seems like it would ensure a flip of thing in the ice if you see more than 4 cards. I might convince myself to use 1 on Saturday along with a few other odds and ends, geistblast being another singleton I am interested in seeing in action.
I can't speak to the effectiveness of Commune with Lava, but I did have a miser's Geistblast in my list for some of my testing. I never seemed to have 2U sitting around to copy something impactful, and the spell itself was also lackluster in its efficiency. I eventually cut it for a Fiery Impulse.
Noah Walker — Dedicated to mill. Oath of Jace triggers Sphinx's Tutelage, fuels Jace flip, and enables Madness.
No Fall of the Titans, or Goggles in the deck.
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Fiery Impulse
3 Fiery Temper
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Lightning Axe
3 Magmatic Insight
4 Oath of Jace
2 Send to Sleep
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Highland Lake
6 Island
6 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wandering Fumarole
2 Dispel
3 Fevered Visions
1 Just the Wind
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Negate
1 Send to Sleep
4 Thing in the Ice
Geoff Mullin — A Dragons variant. Thunderbreak is strong, Draconic Roar can kill and burn a creature, syncs well with Goggles.
No Thing in the Ice in the 75.
1 Jori En, Ruin Diver
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Draconic Roar
2 Fall of the Titans
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Axe
3 Magmatic Insight
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
4 Tormenting Voice
2 Highland Lake
4 Island
7 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Disciple of the Ring
2 Dispel
4 Fevered Visions
4 Negate
3 Rending Volley
John Penick — Stock U/R Goggles List.
1 Jori En, Ruin Diver
4 Thing in the Ice
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Anticipate
2 Fall of the Titans
4 Fiery Temper
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Lightning Axe
3 Magmatic Insight
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Highland Lake
4 Island
7 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Dispel
4 Fevered Visions
1 Jori En, Ruin Diver
4 Negate
3 Rending Volley
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
Lands (26)
3 Island
7 Mountain
4 Drownyard Temple
3 Highland Lake
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Yavimaya Coast
2 Fall of the Titans
3 Fiery Impulse
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Axe
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
3 Magmatic Insight
4 Tormenting Voice
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Fevered Visions
2 Dispel
4 Negate
1 Rending Volley
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Jori En, Ruin Diver
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Lands (26)
4 Island
7 Mountain
4 Drownyard Temple
3 Highland Lake
4 Shivan Reef
4 Wandering Fumarole
2 Fall of the Titans
2 Fiery Impulse
4 Fiery Temper
4 Lightning Axe
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
3 Magmatic Insight
4 Tormenting Voice
4 Fevered Visions
2 Dispel
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Negate
2 Rending Volley
1 Chandra, Flamecaller