Flipdipple already knows this but I like this style deck too. If not for D Roar, I think the dragons, while good, are just a hair shy of other red and or black threats but being able to consistent kill a creature and bolt to the face is amazing value. Then recast T5 with GDD.
Not saying Dragons is the only way to go but right now, but all the testing is done without major tournament support, which means all the spikes who only play what the pros do aren't testing it, so we have to rely on MTGO and local reports until the pros realize how good R/B is situated in the meta right now.
Right now, our way around Ormendhal is to just not let him get summoned. If he is, the 9 point life swing alone basically ends the game against any R/B deck. If life gain starts dominating the meta tho, tainted remedy is a wicked hate card which basically negates their ormendhal or lantern scout.
I have most of the pieces for the R/B deck and am just waiting for Kalitas Online to come back down to earth in price. Online prices tendy to be extremely swingy, whereas paper, he has been increasing in price for about 3 months solid.
I wouldn't mind merging/collaborating with the other thread. To me it's all B/R midrange or control since people define things differently. Scg had states results come up and I found 2 Rakdos decks containing the same 75 but different sideboards and placed 2nd in each of those. There was another Rakdos deck but it was vastly different. He are the two links to those decks from Starcitygames and a list view of one of them. List posted is of Reza Soulati.
Good point. If their main win con is abbey, that will def put a hamper on it. Most lists don't use abbey as a main win con, but as a threat to keep mind of.
Good point. If their main win con is abbey, that will def put a hamper on it. Most lists don't use abbey as a main win con, but as a threat to keep mind of.
Kozilek's Return is probably the best way to stop it from happening. So far as I can tell, the easiest way to get it off the board when it does flip in our colors is Oblivion Strike or Burn from Within and both are sorcery speed. Tainted Remedy is definitely an interesting option to consider especially having game against their Zulaport Cutthroat/Nantuko Husk win-con. This is going to be an interesting dilemma for us going forward as to how to deal with Indestructible creatures.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
Yeah, Remedy is a wicked hate card for life gainers and almost shuts off B/G Aristocrats because they bascially can't flip ormendal or cast zulaport(unless they are way ahead on life). It also shuts off ormendal for G/W tokens.
Agree that Koz return is good for GW Tokens. Some of the tokens will likely be 3 power at that point, not not likely all of them and if you can kill even one while they go for the ormendal alpha strike, they likely have lost the game.
Virulent Plague is the better dedicated hate card for tokens but with Drom Command, it's also much easier to kill. Still, while it's out there, it completely shuts down their game plan.
What we really would love is anger of the gods. That card would be so sweet but may make us too good and basically kill any chance for wide decks, which we don't want, for diversity sake and people would just go control which is a weak area for us.
What would you think some good sideboard cards are against ramp besides infinite obliteration? I'm packing 2 Transgress the Mind mainboard and 1 in the side, possible 3 duress and 2 infinite obliterations. This deck can't seem to beat Ormendal or Ulamog.
If you really need a removal for them, then the 2 easiest to exercise would be Oblivion Strike or Burn from Within. The easiest way to pull off a BfW kill is to just ping it and then Price or Path it, Ormendal is a black creature. Sacrifice effects can be tricky to maneuver with all the wide strats that use Ormendal as an alt win. Ulamog is a little easier to get a sac off as they don't generally run many creatures. Unfortunately we are going to have to usually take a hit or chump an Ormendal before we can control it thus giving them 9 life. Unless your on the Tainted Remedy plan, which I think I'm going to try as it punishes a few other things running around in the Tier 1 ranks. Ulamog, for the time being is not that big of an issue right now. I think we should be favored with the amount of hand disruption we run and Infinite Obliteration still wrecks Ramp strats, especially once we start to replay them with GDD's.
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Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
Flipdipple already knows this but I like this style deck too. If not for D Roar, I think the dragons, while good, are just a hair shy of other red and or black threats but being able to consistent kill a creature and bolt to the face is amazing value. Then recast T5 with GDD.
Not saying Dragons is the only way to go but right now, but all the testing is done without major tournament support, which means all the spikes who only play what the pros do aren't testing it, so we have to rely on MTGO and local reports until the pros realize how good R/B is situated in the meta right now.
Right now, our way around Ormendhal is to just not let him get summoned. If he is, the 9 point life swing alone basically ends the game against any R/B deck. If life gain starts dominating the meta tho, tainted remedy is a wicked hate card which basically negates their ormendhal or lantern scout.
I have most of the pieces for the R/B deck and am just waiting for Kalitas Online to come back down to earth in price. Online prices tendy to be extremely swingy, whereas paper, he has been increasing in price for about 3 months solid.
I wouldn't mind merging/collaborating with the other thread. To me it's all B/R midrange or control since people define things differently. Scg had states results come up and I found 2 Rakdos decks containing the same 75 but different sideboards and placed 2nd in each of those. There was another Rakdos deck but it was vastly different. He are the two links to those decks from Starcitygames and a list view of one of them. List posted is of Reza Soulati.
What would you think some good sideboard cards are against ramp besides infinite obliteration? I'm packing 2 Transgress the Mind mainboard and 1 in the side, possible 3 duress and 2 infinite obliterations. This deck can't seem to beat Ormendal or Ulamog.
Goldnight Castigator. They won't be dealing any damage to you. If you can curve olivia, regent, castigator, should be set.
But yeah, duress, transgress, and foul toungue/to the slaughter all deal with ramp.
That said, R/B midrange/control is weak to ramp naturally, so it'll never be a good matchup. It's funny. I've prolly played 20 matches plus in the tourny practice room on mtgo and have yet to play against bant company. Played again WW a couple times and can't believe I got 0-2 to r/w equipment allies but the rest were either b/g sac or some blue or black control. Over all, I think R/B midrange/control is a darn good deck and very competitive. We lost KSF so we're not going the turn 5 burst damage 12 power in the air plan. With GDD(who im telling you, is one of the best cards in standard right now), we grind out a little more, which is
I did play against ramp and it just depends on the draw. If I draw into my hand disruption/removal, i beat them...if not, they do. Another thing is we don't have a clean answer to DL Atarka main. Sideboard we could bring in foul tongue but ult price doesnt hit him and would need two grasps to kill him. Basically when he drops, unless you kill him that turn, it's GG. But again, mid range/control is supposed to struggle against ramp/control, much like ramp/control struggles against aggro and aggro struggles against mid range.
I think for Gameday I'll try Burn from within. Worst case it's a fireball at their face if we have dealt a lot of damage to them already. I've almost considered something too cute like act of treason but I'm not going to waste a sideboard spot. I'll post my 75 later this week with my FNM matches and matches from gameday.
Building a deck around these creatures and planeswalkers has me interested.
I've been playing a (for now) budget version without Chandra or Kalitas and I can tell you, the deck can win without Chandra but she makes a great 1x to drop her then DL Kolaghan. As Flipdipple said, D Roar is just so much value right now and 3 damage is the sweet spot. It hits everything you want to hit with a 2 mana burn spell and being able to take out a creature and PW with one 2 mana spell, revealing a dragon, is value town. Then rebuying it with GDD...good stuff.
I'm playing B/R control in GP Toronto everyone wish me luck! I'm playing the control version, main win conditions are 2 kalitas, 2 Chandra, 4 GDD, and 1 dragonmaster outcast who is surprisingly good. And then just a bunch of removal and discard and a little bit of draw including a spicy 1 of tormenting voice.
Also as an out to ormendahl I have 1 grip of desolation in the board. I know it costs 6 mana, but its an instant and can either remove westvale abbey or ormendahl and its also decent in the ramp matchup.
I'm playing B/R control in GP Toronto everyone wish me luck! I'm playing the control version, main win conditions are 2 kalitas, 2 Chandra, 4 GDD, and 1 dragonmaster outcast who is surprisingly good. And then just a bunch of removal and discard and a little bit of draw including a spicy 1 of tormenting voice.
Also as an out to ormendahl I have 1 grip of desolation in the board. I know it costs 6 mana, but its an instant and can either remove westvale abbey or ormendahl and its also decent in the ramp matchup.
Played in two game days and won both and all my matches. Sideboard was a little different but main deck was the same as I posted it with two links to starcitygames. I can post sideboard and match results later on tonight.
bugmage95
: Good stuff dude. Did you have a deck list? Also which matchups felt good and which not so much?
Also, even though I'm running the dragon variant, I can tell you, Chandra is just a beast. If you're able to follow up with anything else to protect her, she's 10x better. There's no board state where she's not good. I have to admit I thought at 6 mana, she would be a tough sell pre release but having played her...I dare say she is close to Elspeth level good.
On a side note, the new Sorin is also very good in the W/B deck. I can tell you, I think W/B is our toughest matchup. I haven't played against Esper Dragons but I have played against other control variants and W/B is by far the worst. Being able to buy back K command or Exq Firecraft with GDD is awesome.
I think it's because I'm playing the more creature heavy dragon build(15 creatures main, remove 3 when going against other creature decks) as opposed to pure R/B Control with less than 10 creatures because they just removal everything you put out there(w/b has the best removal in the game period) then drop sorin or gideon and it's like GG dude. Our only hope is heavy discard package in duress and transgress. This is a matchup where Rakdos's return would be insanely good.
bugmage95
: Good stuff dude. Did you have a deck list? Also which matchups felt good and which not so much?
Also, even though I'm running the dragon variant, I can tell you, Chandra is just a beast. If you're able to follow up with anything else to protect her, she's 10x better. There's no board state where she's not good. I have to admit I thought at 6 mana, she would be a tough sell pre release but having played her...I dare say she is close to Elspeth level good.
On a side note, the new Sorin is also very good in the W/B deck. I can tell you, I think W/B is our toughest matchup. I haven't played against Esper Dragons but I have played against other control variants and W/B is by far the worst. Being able to buy back K command or Exq Firecraft with GDD is awesome.
I think it's because I'm playing the more creature heavy dragon build(15 creatures main, remove 3 when going against other creature decks) as opposed to pure R/B Control with less than 10 creatures because they just removal everything you put out there(w/b has the best removal in the game period) then drop sorin or gideon and it's like GG dude. Our only hope is heavy discard package in duress and transgress. This is a matchup where Rakdos's return would be insanely good.
I will post the decklist and matchups for both gamedays later tonight. I think Ramp would be our hardest matchup or the g/b seasons past deck. Gideon might seem like a problem but it can easily be dealt with from transgress the mind, ruinous path, or duress from the sideboard.
Here is my decklist that I played for Gameday last weekend. I ended up changing the sideboard from Friday since I noticed some cards were not being boarded in and that others might seem useful. From this I took out both kozilek's return and a second Ob Nixilis.
Gameday- 8 Players
Match 1: 2-1 Against Monocle Eldrazi
Game 1: I lost on a mulligan and didn't draw the enough removal to deal with a ThoughtKnot Seer and then he placed a Whirler Rogue and I died not being able to black. I believe if I had another turn or 2 I could have stabilized. LOST
Game 2: He mulled and in short order he couldn't handle a kolaghan command on his hedron crawler followed by GDD and Chandra. He stumbled on land this and the next game.
Game 3: He could not answer any of my threats and the game was quickly over after Chandra came down and he had no board state.
Overall this matchup seemed easy. Boarded in Dark Petition, Infinite Obliteration, and a languish and took out Ob Nixilis and 2 Ultimate Price.
Match 2: 2-1 Against G/B Seasons Past
Game 1: I got steamrolled by the loop of Dark Petition into Seasons Past and conceded. This matchup seems difficult after testing with one of my other friends who plays the deck. LOST.
Game 2: I drew enough hand disruption and won the game off of Chandra and a couple awakened lands from Ruinous path.
Game 3: We both stumble on 2 lands but I drew the third and that led into Read the Bones to find more lands. He started making his land drops and misplayed a couple of times that ensured me the win.
Match 3: 2-1 Against Jeskai Midrange
Game1: This game goes long and after exchanging resources, Ob Nixilis and Chandra were too much to overcome. Kalitas was super important here. After he managed the first one from a Dec. in Stone, I landed a second one which he couldn't handle.
Game 2: He drew really well from Nahiri, into Dragonlord Ojutai and into Chandra. This game dragged out but ended quickly as I couldn't deal with too many walkers. LOST.
Game 3: This game went long and on the back of GDD for recursion and disruption. Transgress the mind and duress were key to strip away his Gideon and Nahiri. The board state ended with him having a needle spires, GDD, Dragonlord Ojutai with me having Ob, GDD, a couple thopter tokens and Kalitas just being Exquisite Firecrafted. I drew into Chandra and another GDD at 5 health and Ob was at -3 with fear of uptickinyg into being dead the next turn by a GDD or another Exquisite Firecraft. Chandra came down and upticked that helped win the game and Match. Boarded in 3 duress, Transgress the mind, Dark Petition, Dragonmaster Outcast. Took out 1 Read the bones, 3 Fiery Impulse, 1 Kolaghan's command, 1 Languish.
Second Gameday- 14 Players
Match 1: 2-0 against W/B Midrange
Game 1: This was a grindy game and GDD just out 2-1 the opponent and as he answered my threats I was stripping his away with Transgress the mind. He landed a sorin and downticked to handle Kalitas. Next Turn I awakened Ruinous path and smacked him for 4. We both ended up in top deck but recursion from Kolaghan's Command and GDD won the game.
Game 2: He stumbled on 2 lands and I curved out with Hangarback on 1, Transgressed into pump hangar back, Turn 4 Kalitas, Turn 5 GDD with Transgress, and Chandra for the Win. Boarded in 3 Duress, Transgress, Dark Petition, Dragonmaster Outcast, and Dragonlord Kolaghan. Boarded out 3 Fiery Impulse, 2 Languish, 2 Ultimate Price.
Match 2: 2-0 GB Sacrifice
Game 1: Languish killed his whole board and kalitas into another Languish helped win this game followed by Chandra.
Game 2: He flooded the board and I am at 8 life waiting for him to draw Westvale Abbey. I took a chance and played Kalitas once again with Languish in hand and he drew a land but it wasn't abbey. I languished next turn and ended up with 3 Zombies and 7 Thopters from Hangarback. One was at 4, the other at 4. He had nothing in hand and that was the match.
Boarded in Crumble to Dust, Languish, Transgress the mind,
Boarded out: 2 ultimate price, Read the Bones.
Match 3: 2-1 GB Aristocrats
Game 1: I died to Ormendahl but I learned something new. I swung in for 4 with GDD and then tried to Grasp of Darkness it to kill it. This does not work as damage is slightly different from a Grasp. I lost due to not having an answer for that.
Game 2: It led on some removal spells and a Kalitas which he couldn't answer and that won the game after GDD for more removal and Chandra.
Game 3: It was a close game as he Infinite Obliterated naming Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. I had tons of removal and GDD to help for the value and we both got down to 3 life and I killed a guy with K-command and bought back a GDD to shock him and buy back another Creature. Then Dragonlord Kolaghan came down and closed it out.
Boarded in Crumble to Dust, Languish, Transgress the mind, Dragonlord Kolghan
Boarded out: 2 ultimate price, Read the Bones, Kolaghan's Command
Match 4: 2-0 Jeskai Midrange (same as round 3)
Game 1: GDD and Chandra helped clear the way and won and quick fashion.
Game 2: He got stuck on two lands for 2 turns with 3 Dragonloard Ojutais in hand. I think this was a bad keep on his part and he didn't draw a third land until 2 turns later which came into play tapped. He was too slow and lost in quick fashion. Overall this matchup Ive played tons of times and managed to barely beat him but knocking him out twice in the finals in convincing fashion felt great.
Overall, This deck won both gamedays and didn't feel like it didn't have a chance to win a match. I believe ramp is difficult and luckily I avoided it in the second Gameday. Feel free to ask me questions about the matches or any feedback you may have. Thanks!
Finally able to get some FNM fun in tonight and went 3-1. Beat Jeskai Dragons-Walkers?? 2-1, B/R Control 2-1 using Erebos's Titan as the main beat stick and Mono R Eldrazi 2-1 {another DLK Kill off a 2nd Chandra attempt } only loss was to G/W tokens 2-0.
My current list.
Kozilek's Return felt lackluster in the match I tried to bring it in against G/W Tokens and I feel it isn't that good against Humans as 2 is a little low with most being x/3 by the time I can play it, I think its better suited for the G/B Aristocrats match-up as the instant speed can be relevant. Still trying to solve the Ormendahl, Profane Prince, just didn't draw any answers I have to combat it. Still considering dropping my 2 drop creature for sweeps and a few more removal/discard. Relentless Dead didn't do all that bad tonight, wasn't able to really abuse its buyback ability but it did present some early game issues for opponents and was actually really good against my B/R Erebos's Titan match-up being able to keep it on board to kill off the Titan was huge. Playing in a Super IQ tomorrow so we will see how it goes.
Finished 4th at a SCG Super IQ 35ppl I think. Went 3-1-ID in swiss and lost in the Semi's to Mardu.
Swiss matches
Round 1 2-0 Esper Walker's : Spent most of game one controlling his walkers before they got out of control and then got beats going, RtB was great at refilling the hand especially off of GDD late game. Game 2 straight beats as he stumbled.
Round 2 2-0 Sultai Control/Ramp : Game 1 he stumbles and I slowly eat away while keeping what he can get down off the board. Game 2 I get the early beats and T-Breaks finish it fast.
Round 3 2-1 R/W Nahiri Eldrazi : Game 1 he gets the Smasher beats as I stumble. Game 2 3 Roar w/ reveal gets a big chink of lfe while keeping mana ramp off the board, T-Break's and GDD finish. Game 3 he stumbles and I don't, Dual T-Break's FTW.
Round 4 0-2 U/R Mage-Ring Ramp/Control : Game 1 I got nothing for his ramp and he counters all my early stuff while getting a T5 Chandra and I get no answer. Game 2 I get a little more game but in the end his counter/removal pkg and Chandra's do me in'
Round 5 ID
Top 8
2-1 seaded 5th and have to play the kid I ID'd with and I know he is on G/B Aristocrats and we get the Feature Match (my first ever BTW) : Game 1 he combo's off as I pull up short on removals. Games 2 and 3 I get Kalatias and removals and he just folds to him. Also, the commentator in game 3 is pretty high on my opponents deck and was pretty confident he had game 3 in the bag at one point, you could almost hear the disbelief in his voice as I proceed to devastate my opponents board not once but twice, GDD and some K-Return action with Kalitas in play, get Rekt! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K13cELk0Fv8 My Feature match starts at the 5:07:00 mark.
Semi-Finals 0-2 Mardu Control : Game 1 I get him to 5 but he gets the timely removal and gets the win. Game 2 I keep a borderline hand of 2x GDD, 1 T-Break, 1 Read, 1 Price, SMarsh and a Mountain. Didn't get my 3rd land till T6
All in all I was really happy with the deck and felt I had answers for all my match-ups. I did find myself boarding out both Olivia and the Dead more often than not and thus have decided to drop them in place of some other options. I really wanted a MD sweeper all day, especially Game 1's so I have gone to 2 Languish, I also picked up a couple Chandra's and have snap dropped them into the deck as well.
Nice - this is getting pretty close to that BR Control list that saw play at the PT. Any thoughts on why you prefer going the dragons/roar route vs. the hangarback/pia and kiran/fiery impulse route?
The problem I see though is that languish is a big thing in the format. Sure you get an occasional bolt to someone but I'm still not sure if the package is worth it after testing. Yes it has bigger flyers than P&K but they play either a one or two of so its hard to compare it to that.
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I wouldn't mind merging/collaborating with the other thread. To me it's all B/R midrange or control since people define things differently. Scg had states results come up and I found 2 Rakdos decks containing the same 75 but different sideboards and placed 2nd in each of those. There was another Rakdos deck but it was vastly different. He are the two links to those decks from Starcitygames and a list view of one of them. List posted is of Reza Soulati.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102084 By Ray Tautic 4/23 States VA
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=101825 By Reza Soulati 4/23 States WI
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Lands (26)
6 Mountain
7 Swamp
2 Blighted Fen
3 Cinder Barrens
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ultimate Price
2 Languish
3 Read the Bones
3 Ruinous Path
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Virulent Plague
2 Rending Volley
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Dark Petition
1 Duress
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Languish
2 Roast
2 Transgress the Mind
Good point. If their main win con is abbey, that will def put a hamper on it. Most lists don't use abbey as a main win con, but as a threat to keep mind of.
The problem with Westvale Abbey is it is often held until they play an end of turn Secure the Wastes. Crumble to Dust, at sorcery speed, isn't really a great answer. I Kozilek's Return is probably better.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Agree that Koz return is good for GW Tokens. Some of the tokens will likely be 3 power at that point, not not likely all of them and if you can kill even one while they go for the ormendal alpha strike, they likely have lost the game.
Virulent Plague is the better dedicated hate card for tokens but with Drom Command, it's also much easier to kill. Still, while it's out there, it completely shuts down their game plan.
What we really would love is anger of the gods. That card would be so sweet but may make us too good and basically kill any chance for wide decks, which we don't want, for diversity sake and people would just go control which is a weak area for us.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Goldnight Castigator. They won't be dealing any damage to you. If you can curve olivia, regent, castigator, should be set.
But yeah, duress, transgress, and foul toungue/to the slaughter all deal with ramp.
That said, R/B midrange/control is weak to ramp naturally, so it'll never be a good matchup. It's funny. I've prolly played 20 matches plus in the tourny practice room on mtgo and have yet to play against bant company. Played again WW a couple times and can't believe I got 0-2 to r/w equipment allies but the rest were either b/g sac or some blue or black control. Over all, I think R/B midrange/control is a darn good deck and very competitive. We lost KSF so we're not going the turn 5 burst damage 12 power in the air plan. With GDD(who im telling you, is one of the best cards in standard right now), we grind out a little more, which is
I did play against ramp and it just depends on the draw. If I draw into my hand disruption/removal, i beat them...if not, they do. Another thing is we don't have a clean answer to DL Atarka main. Sideboard we could bring in foul tongue but ult price doesnt hit him and would need two grasps to kill him. Basically when he drops, unless you kill him that turn, it's GG. But again, mid range/control is supposed to struggle against ramp/control, much like ramp/control struggles against aggro and aggro struggles against mid range.
4 Goblin Dark-dwellers
2 Dragonlord Kolaghan
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Chandra, flamecaller
Building a deck around these creatures and planeswalkers has me interested.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I've been playing a (for now) budget version without Chandra or Kalitas and I can tell you, the deck can win without Chandra but she makes a great 1x to drop her then DL Kolaghan. As Flipdipple said, D Roar is just so much value right now and 3 damage is the sweet spot. It hits everything you want to hit with a 2 mana burn spell and being able to take out a creature and PW with one 2 mana spell, revealing a dragon, is value town. Then rebuying it with GDD...good stuff.
Also as an out to ormendahl I have 1 grip of desolation in the board. I know it costs 6 mana, but its an instant and can either remove westvale abbey or ormendahl and its also decent in the ramp matchup.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
: Good stuff dude. Did you have a deck list? Also which matchups felt good and which not so much?
Also, even though I'm running the dragon variant, I can tell you, Chandra is just a beast. If you're able to follow up with anything else to protect her, she's 10x better. There's no board state where she's not good. I have to admit I thought at 6 mana, she would be a tough sell pre release but having played her...I dare say she is close to Elspeth level good.
On a side note, the new Sorin is also very good in the W/B deck. I can tell you, I think W/B is our toughest matchup. I haven't played against Esper Dragons but I have played against other control variants and W/B is by far the worst. Being able to buy back K command or Exq Firecraft with GDD is awesome.
I think it's because I'm playing the more creature heavy dragon build(15 creatures main, remove 3 when going against other creature decks) as opposed to pure R/B Control with less than 10 creatures because they just removal everything you put out there(w/b has the best removal in the game period) then drop sorin or gideon and it's like GG dude. Our only hope is heavy discard package in duress and transgress. This is a matchup where Rakdos's return would be insanely good.
I will post the decklist and matchups for both gamedays later tonight. I think Ramp would be our hardest matchup or the g/b seasons past deck. Gideon might seem like a problem but it can easily be dealt with from transgress the mind, ruinous path, or duress from the sideboard.
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Lands (26)
6 Mountain
7 Swamp
2 Blighted Fen
3 Cinder Barrens
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ultimate Price
2 Languish
3 Read the Bones
3 Ruinous Path
2 Transgress the Mind
3 Duress
3 Pitiless Horde
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Languish
1 Dark Petition
1 Malevolent Whispers
1 Crumble to Dust
Gameday- 8 Players
Match 1: 2-1 Against Monocle Eldrazi
Game 1: I lost on a mulligan and didn't draw the enough removal to deal with a ThoughtKnot Seer and then he placed a Whirler Rogue and I died not being able to black. I believe if I had another turn or 2 I could have stabilized. LOST
Game 2: He mulled and in short order he couldn't handle a kolaghan command on his hedron crawler followed by GDD and Chandra. He stumbled on land this and the next game.
Game 3: He could not answer any of my threats and the game was quickly over after Chandra came down and he had no board state.
Overall this matchup seemed easy. Boarded in Dark Petition, Infinite Obliteration, and a languish and took out Ob Nixilis and 2 Ultimate Price.
Match 2: 2-1 Against G/B Seasons Past
Game 1: I got steamrolled by the loop of Dark Petition into Seasons Past and conceded. This matchup seems difficult after testing with one of my other friends who plays the deck. LOST.
Game 2: I drew enough hand disruption and won the game off of Chandra and a couple awakened lands from Ruinous path.
Game 3: We both stumble on 2 lands but I drew the third and that led into Read the Bones to find more lands. He started making his land drops and misplayed a couple of times that ensured me the win.
Match 3: 2-1 Against Jeskai Midrange
Game1: This game goes long and after exchanging resources, Ob Nixilis and Chandra were too much to overcome. Kalitas was super important here. After he managed the first one from a Dec. in Stone, I landed a second one which he couldn't handle.
Game 2: He drew really well from Nahiri, into Dragonlord Ojutai and into Chandra. This game dragged out but ended quickly as I couldn't deal with too many walkers. LOST.
Game 3: This game went long and on the back of GDD for recursion and disruption. Transgress the mind and duress were key to strip away his Gideon and Nahiri. The board state ended with him having a needle spires, GDD, Dragonlord Ojutai with me having Ob, GDD, a couple thopter tokens and Kalitas just being Exquisite Firecrafted. I drew into Chandra and another GDD at 5 health and Ob was at -3 with fear of uptickinyg into being dead the next turn by a GDD or another Exquisite Firecraft. Chandra came down and upticked that helped win the game and Match. Boarded in 3 duress, Transgress the mind, Dark Petition, Dragonmaster Outcast. Took out 1 Read the bones, 3 Fiery Impulse, 1 Kolaghan's command, 1 Languish.
Second Gameday- 14 Players
Match 1: 2-0 against W/B Midrange
Game 1: This was a grindy game and GDD just out 2-1 the opponent and as he answered my threats I was stripping his away with Transgress the mind. He landed a sorin and downticked to handle Kalitas. Next Turn I awakened Ruinous path and smacked him for 4. We both ended up in top deck but recursion from Kolaghan's Command and GDD won the game.
Game 2: He stumbled on 2 lands and I curved out with Hangarback on 1, Transgressed into pump hangar back, Turn 4 Kalitas, Turn 5 GDD with Transgress, and Chandra for the Win. Boarded in 3 Duress, Transgress, Dark Petition, Dragonmaster Outcast, and Dragonlord Kolaghan. Boarded out 3 Fiery Impulse, 2 Languish, 2 Ultimate Price.
Match 2: 2-0 GB Sacrifice
Game 1: Languish killed his whole board and kalitas into another Languish helped win this game followed by Chandra.
Game 2: He flooded the board and I am at 8 life waiting for him to draw Westvale Abbey. I took a chance and played Kalitas once again with Languish in hand and he drew a land but it wasn't abbey. I languished next turn and ended up with 3 Zombies and 7 Thopters from Hangarback. One was at 4, the other at 4. He had nothing in hand and that was the match.
Boarded in Crumble to Dust, Languish, Transgress the mind,
Boarded out: 2 ultimate price, Read the Bones.
Match 3: 2-1 GB Aristocrats
Game 1: I died to Ormendahl but I learned something new. I swung in for 4 with GDD and then tried to Grasp of Darkness it to kill it. This does not work as damage is slightly different from a Grasp. I lost due to not having an answer for that.
Game 2: It led on some removal spells and a Kalitas which he couldn't answer and that won the game after GDD for more removal and Chandra.
Game 3: It was a close game as he Infinite Obliterated naming Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. I had tons of removal and GDD to help for the value and we both got down to 3 life and I killed a guy with K-command and bought back a GDD to shock him and buy back another Creature. Then Dragonlord Kolaghan came down and closed it out.
Boarded in Crumble to Dust, Languish, Transgress the mind, Dragonlord Kolghan
Boarded out: 2 ultimate price, Read the Bones, Kolaghan's Command
Match 4: 2-0 Jeskai Midrange (same as round 3)
Game 1: GDD and Chandra helped clear the way and won and quick fashion.
Game 2: He got stuck on two lands for 2 turns with 3 Dragonloard Ojutais in hand. I think this was a bad keep on his part and he didn't draw a third land until 2 turns later which came into play tapped. He was too slow and lost in quick fashion. Overall this matchup Ive played tons of times and managed to barely beat him but knocking him out twice in the finals in convincing fashion felt great.
Overall, This deck won both gamedays and didn't feel like it didn't have a chance to win a match. I believe ramp is difficult and luckily I avoided it in the second Gameday. Feel free to ask me questions about the matches or any feedback you may have. Thanks!
My current list.
3x Cinder Barrens
4x Foreboding Ruins
2x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
5x Mountain
4x Smoldering Marsh
7x Swamp
2x Duress
3x Read the Bones
2x Ruinous Path
Creature (17)
2x Dragonlord Kolaghan
4x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3x Olivia, Mobilized for War
4x Relentless Dead
4x Thunderbreak Regent
4x Draconic Roar
2x Grasp of Darkness
3x Kolaghan's Command
2x Ultimate Price
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Kozilek's Return
3x Languish
2x Tainted Remedy
2x To the Slaughter
2x Transgress the Mind
1x Virulent Plague
Changes going forward include dropping Cinder Barrens for Evolving Wilds to help enable Delirium for To the Slaughter out of the sb and a revamped sb.
1x Crumble to Dust
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Kozilek's Return
3x Languish
2x Tainted Remedy
2x To the Slaughter
4x Transgress the Mind
Kozilek's Return felt lackluster in the match I tried to bring it in against G/W Tokens and I feel it isn't that good against Humans as 2 is a little low with most being x/3 by the time I can play it, I think its better suited for the G/B Aristocrats match-up as the instant speed can be relevant. Still trying to solve the Ormendahl, Profane Prince, just didn't draw any answers I have to combat it. Still considering dropping my 2 drop creature for sweeps and a few more removal/discard. Relentless Dead didn't do all that bad tonight, wasn't able to really abuse its buyback ability but it did present some early game issues for opponents and was actually really good against my B/R Erebos's Titan match-up being able to keep it on board to kill off the Titan was huge. Playing in a Super IQ tomorrow so we will see how it goes.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Swiss matches
Round 1 2-0 Esper Walker's : Spent most of game one controlling his walkers before they got out of control and then got beats going, RtB was great at refilling the hand especially off of GDD late game. Game 2 straight beats as he stumbled.
Round 2 2-0 Sultai Control/Ramp : Game 1 he stumbles and I slowly eat away while keeping what he can get down off the board. Game 2 I get the early beats and T-Breaks finish it fast.
Round 3 2-1 R/W Nahiri Eldrazi : Game 1 he gets the Smasher beats as I stumble. Game 2 3 Roar w/ reveal gets a big chink of lfe while keeping mana ramp off the board, T-Break's and GDD finish. Game 3 he stumbles and I don't, Dual T-Break's FTW.
Round 4 0-2 U/R Mage-Ring Ramp/Control : Game 1 I got nothing for his ramp and he counters all my early stuff while getting a T5 Chandra and I get no answer. Game 2 I get a little more game but in the end his counter/removal pkg and Chandra's do me in'
Round 5 ID
Top 8
2-1 seaded 5th and have to play the kid I ID'd with and I know he is on G/B Aristocrats and we get the Feature Match (my first ever BTW) : Game 1 he combo's off as I pull up short on removals. Games 2 and 3 I get Kalatias and removals and he just folds to him. Also, the commentator in game 3 is pretty high on my opponents deck and was pretty confident he had game 3 in the bag at one point, you could almost hear the disbelief in his voice as I proceed to devastate my opponents board not once but twice, GDD and some K-Return action with Kalitas in play, get Rekt!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K13cELk0Fv8 My Feature match starts at the 5:07:00 mark.
Semi-Finals 0-2 Mardu Control : Game 1 I get him to 5 but he gets the timely removal and gets the win. Game 2 I keep a borderline hand of 2x GDD, 1 T-Break, 1 Read, 1 Price, SMarsh and a Mountain. Didn't get my 3rd land till T6
All in all I was really happy with the deck and felt I had answers for all my match-ups. I did find myself boarding out both Olivia and the Dead more often than not and thus have decided to drop them in place of some other options. I really wanted a MD sweeper all day, especially Game 1's so I have gone to 2 Languish, I also picked up a couple Chandra's and have snap dropped them into the deck as well.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
3x Evolving Wilds
4x Foreboding Ruins
2x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
6x Mountain
4x Smoldering Marsh
6x Swamp
Creature (12)
2x Dragonlord Kolaghan
4x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Thunderbreak Regent
4x Draconic Roar
2x Grasp of Darkness
3x Kolaghan's Command
2x Ultimate Price
Sorcery (10)
2x Languish
3x Read the Bones
3x Ruinous Path
2x Transgress the Mind
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Crumble to Dust
3x Duress
2x Infinite Obliteration
2x Kozilek's Return
1x Languish
2x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Pick the Brain
2x To the Slaughter
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Nice - this is getting pretty close to that BR Control list that saw play at the PT. Any thoughts on why you prefer going the dragons/roar route vs. the hangarback/pia and kiran/fiery impulse route?
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG