I built this without the artifact subtheme because I couldn't stomach how bad Thopter Engineer is in a vaccuum. I also wasn't pressuring ramp hard enough.
Vessel of Volatility has a subtle synergy with Sea Gate Wreckage. Some draws you just hit so much mana that you empty your hand on turn 5. Warping Wail, Matter Reshaper, and Hedron Crawler all can provide extra mana. Our lands let us use it.
This is IMO the ideal Sin Prodder deck. We really appreciate cards in hand, but there's enough high-CC cards that he puts real pressure on their life total. Akoum Firebird is currently being tested as another cute little interaction.
Hangarback Walker is amazing but it hates both Sin Prodder and Matter Reshaper. Haven't actually tested it though.
Sideboard is very much a work in progress. It's the worst part of the deck. There just aren't a lot of ways to hate out common strategies. The colors have no access to efficient exile effects or any sort of life gain. On the other hand, this deck is also hard for them to hate out.
A ton I disagree with here. Also, important to note Matter Reshaper "put onto battlefield" is a may ability, so even if you reveal Hangarback you can just put it in your hand.
Thopter Engineer is an amazing card. Getting two cards for one and a haste 1/1 artifact is excellent. You're running 2 Abbeys, but you don't want to produce more tokens? Tons of questionable choices all over the place here.
Starting point IMO should be very similar to the current Mono R Eldrazi decks putting up results in tournaments, replacing Tomb of Spirit Dragons that rotated out with Abbeys. Something like:
I did start there. Why don't you try to understand the advantages of my build instead of dismissing it. For one, I can beat ramp and you can't. For 2, I have a better nut draw because I have a potential t3 Reality Smasher.
This is false. I've beaten Ramp with ~ the stock R Eldrazi list from the prior format -- and I haven't even played the deck that much. I'm sure a more experienced pilot would have an easier time.
For 2, I have a better nut draw because I have a potential t3 Reality Smasher.
Sure. You have a better nut draw but the former R Eldrazi list is much better vs. removal in general -- thopters and eldrazi turn off removal. Whereas you just have the Eldrazi package -- and one that takes an entire turn to deploy an enchantment that doesn't effect the board the turn it comes into play. Reality Smasher a turn earlier will often be relevant but so can taking an entire turn off to deploy a t2 Vessel.
Are Crumbles even going to be good in this upcoming meta? It's sorcery speed, so Abbey decks can just hold onto the land until they can go off with it. Other than that, we're back to 2-3 color decks, so I'm not sure Crumble deserves slots in the SB.
I also rarely find myself out of cards with this deck because of the high curve, so 3 Sea Gate seems excessive, especially at the cost of removing a Foundry.
Otherwise I like your build so far. Seems very much along the lines of what I'm testing with it.
I've been playing against a lot of Esper and Mardu, and it(Sea Gate) seems darn near essential in those match-ups. Crumble is mainly for Ramp and other Abbey's but 1 might be the right number.
I've been playing against a lot of Esper and Mardu, and it(Sea Gate) seems darn near essential in those match-ups. Crumble is mainly for Ramp and other Abbey's but 1 might be the right number.
The main point about the Sea Gates - I think it is a mistake not cutting it down to 1 or 2 to make room for 4 Foundry which does a lot more for this deck's gameplan. About Crumble: vs Abbey's, sorcery speed makes it less appealing. vs Ramp, we are hoping to hit a Sanctum but taking off our Turn 4 to do that doesn't seem so great (Shrine is far less valuable now without Ugin - it really is only there to make an earlier Ulamog, typically run as 1-2 of). We need to provide some early pressure to get in some damage before they start throwing out their haymakers with DL Atarka, Worldbreaker, and all. Then we bring in our Eldrazi Obligators to steal their one big beater to finish them off. I originally was planning on running Crumbles sideboard, but I'm thinking they just will not be that good this upcoming meta. Maybe 1 of, but I can easily see cutting it entirely.
I like the idea of incorporating Thunderbreak Regents and Draconic Roar into mono R eldrazi. Seems like a much better choice than roast in the new meta and is usually a better spatial contortion. What are the thopter's eyes for though? Seems like Vile Aggregate, hangarback walker or exquisite firecrafts are better options
Interesting build. Could you go into your thoughts behind this? Seems like a mix between wanting to go for a Dragons build but with only Thunderbreak, Draconic, and Haven, and then something more along the lines of a typical mono-red eldrazi build. If you're going this deep into dragons with 4 Roars and 4 Havens I feel like the build should be more focused on dragons all around.
Boiling Earth being sorcery speed is my main issue with it. We are going to face a good amount of decks generating tokens at instant speed with cards like Secure the Wastes, saccing Foundry with Thopter Engineer in play to give them haste, and the likes. I think Kozilek's Return is a better fit for instant speed, but I could be wrong since it does kill a good amount of our stuff too. Then again, if I'm casting K-return I'm doing it because I need to at that gamestate, so I'm willing to lose some creatures for it. Also I run Hangarbacks still in my list so killing them isn't so bad - just gives me thopters!
Good call on the Thunderbreak/Draconic Roar setup. I would like to see 2x PKN somewhere in the list. But I also see you have opted out of Vile Aggregate.
If you are replacing vile aggregate then I think Goldnight Castigator would be better. The format is slowing down and I don't think you will see a lot of red based aggro deck. Curving Thopter Engineer into Castigator into Reality Smasher is devastating to anyone. You can replace Draconic roar with Exquisite Firecraft for the finishing blow.
Interesting build. Could you go into your thoughts behind this? Seems like a mix between wanting to go for a Dragons build but with only Thunderbreak, Draconic, and Haven, and then something more along the lines of a typical mono-red eldrazi build. If you're going this deep into dragons with 4 Roars and 4 Havens I feel like the build should be more focused on dragons all around.
Boiling Earth being sorcery speed is my main issue with it. We are going to face a good amount of decks generating tokens at instant speed with cards like Secure the Wastes, saccing Foundry with Thopter Engineer in play to give them haste, and the likes. I think Kozilek's Return is a better fit for instant speed, but I could be wrong since it does kill a good amount of our stuff too. Then again, if I'm casting K-return I'm doing it because I need to at that gamestate, so I'm willing to lose some creatures for it. Also I run Hangarbacks still in my list so killing them isn't so bad - just gives me thopters!
I think Thunderbreak is just a better card when you're running Chandra defensively (-2 or -3 are very real plays). However, this cuts back on the P&Ks you can run, which in turn makes cards like HBW worse. So the build is compensating for that.
Haven of the Spirit Dragon is a colorless land that will sometimes draw you a TBR. I like it better than Sea Gate Wreckage. It's also an extra red source for your RR dragon spell -- for which you only have 16 sources otherwise. I tried working G or B into the lists but they always ended up clunky. Nothing like curving out.
You're right. Kozilek's Return is better and it'll find it's way into my SB.
____________________________________________
This is a big mana deck, so I wanted Pilgrim's Eye to make sure I hit my 4th and 5th land drop. It's a Borderland Ranger for this deck. While we're not using Ghor-Clan Rampager to push through damage with it's measly body like people were with Ranger, having a tad of evasive flying isn't the worst thing. We're already playing a card that gives us a flying 1/1 and a 1/3 -- why not a flying 1/1 and a land?
This deck only struggles when it has a tough time curving out. The best cards in your deck are 4, 5, and 6cmc. I want to play them on time.
____________________________________________
Goldnight Castigator is pretty sick. Though it's bad against decks that are pushing back. It also dies to removal spells the same as all your other threats -- whereas you could play something like P&K. I'm debating running P&K over Firebird in the SB just for the spot removal MUs.
Not sure why the original list differs so massively from the proven version of the deck.
Only 1 card has rotated from the deck ofc changes for new meta but adding things like Vessel and Akoum I cannot get behind.
Also the thopter + P&K package is one of the best parts of the deck.
As a base objective we need to test out what utility land will be played now that the lifegain one is gone and evolve the deck from there as the meta becomes clearer.
Completely agreed. I think Westvale Abbey, though functionally very different from Tomb, can take its slots very easily to provide this deck an additional wincon. Akoum Firebird I can see in the sideboard to take the slots that previously were Ashcloud Phoenix. Not sure what is functionally equivalent to Outpost Siege in the side for grindier matchups. Sin Prodder in the side perhaps?
My current version is still very much in the spirit of the proven versions:
Not sure if this is the best place to post this list I have been brewing but there are quite a few overlap in cards so I thought why not? The deck is a midrange mono red list that focuses on deploying annoying threats quickly, as well as having removal to deal with their threats.
Ramp is a tough match - as is the case for any midrange deck that cannot apply significant pressure or disruption early, but not much worse than 40/60, maybe 50/50. It largely hedges on drawing your Thought-Knot Seers early to disrupt some of their ramp. Warping Wail helps here as well to counter their sorcery ramp spells (Pilgrimmage and Vegetation). You need to apply pressure as well vs ramp so side in any earlier threats you have. Scab-clan Berserker, and Akoum Firebird are some options there. Hangarback is too slow vs them, so I tend to side them out (along with all our dead removal spells). Bring in Eldrazi Obligators to steal their big fatties and alpha strike for the win many times is the game plan. The Abbey gameplan is difficult to pull off since you need to make land drops, but want to hold onto Abbey until you can flip it due to their Worldbreaker chaining (which also sets back being able to afford to use it). If they land multiple fatties and clear out board with Chandra, we're just running into walls of Atarkas and Worldbreakers which just stonewall this deck. It's very difficult to win from that state.
Vs control decks this deck is decent. Both spot removal and non-exiling wraths aren't too devastating vs this deck. Thought-knot seers, Akoum Firebird (or other recurring threats), and Endbringer all serve well here in disruption and constant damage. Scab-clan beserker might be an option for more pressure early on. We're probably slightly favored vs control. (I speak a lot more about ramp since I also play that deck)
I picked up this deck before rotation and I'm glad to see that it still has a lot to say. Here are some random observation of cards I've tried that I see posted around here, beyond the core ones:
- Goldnight Castigator as a sideboard card has impressed me from day 1. 4 flying damage with haste in this new kind of slower Standard is an awesome rate. It's great against the Nissa / Gideon Decks and ramp, or decks that use spot removal instead of damage. It is still off people's radar, they'll gum up the ground with durdly tokens and you just one shot their walker or even just swing for 4 unblockable turn 3. Castigator into Smasher is also just ridiculous. Note that the drawback only affects Castigator and you, all your other creatures receive regular damage. It also replaces TKS nicely against Stasis Snare and Declaration in Stone, with the upside that removing the Castigator doesn't really affect our strategy of going wide with synergistic creatures. It's something they have to answer while you build your real game plan.
- I think at least 1 Hedron Archive belongs in the main. I've shaved a Crawler for it since Crawler is terrible after Turn 3-4. The Hedron is almost never a dead card: on one hand it fits nicely in the ramp progression this deck has with Crawler on 2 to hit 4 mana turn 3, on the other you can play it later on and tap it right away to make up for excess mana. I've never played it on curve, but sometimes it slid in my sequencing nicely by powering out an Engineer, Aggregate or Hangarback right away. I feel like sometimes between playing 2 threats or 1 threat and some 'stability' this deck would rather do the second. There is also the tiny advantage of interacting favorably with P&K, although it's never come up for me.
- Westvale Abbey feels like a Plan Z with the density of threats we run. You'll almost always have to sac a good creature if you're in a rush to flip it and by the time we have 5 creatures on board the game should be over in a few turns anyway. This deck isn't making 0/1 plants here, so the actual gain of a 9/8 flying lifelink most of the time is negligible, you'll be giving up some good synergy when saccing your board. If that's not the case, you are probably saccing mana producers to it and you're low on the land count. I've been running 2 but sometimes I even forget I have them, they're that relevant. It also fights with Foundry sometimes, again with the synergies we run even making just 2 extra Thopters can represent the same amount of damage, with the upside that they can keep you alive an extra turn to alpha strike and win.
- Warping Wail has been underperforming for me, none of the modes are particularly powerful when you consider the alternatives we have in this deck. The removal is nice but Contortion and Roast deal with so much more. The Scion token doesn't seem like enough either. I can see the sorcery counter being relevant, but I still feel like that's not enough. Outnumber seems solid, I like that it can hit flyers which are a huge problem for us. 4-5 damage to a flying creature aren't uncommon and that's almost exactly what we're looking for. With Siege Rhino gone I think Roast is gonna play less of a part in the format and I've found myself wishing it could hit flying creatures (hence the Tears of Valakut in the side).
- I already miss Outpost Siege so much. Chandra 0 is the best we have now ;_;
got a chandra, got the walkers, got the roasts got a pia/kiran, so i have a starting point.
The deck not too exspensive in terms of money, but exspensive enough yes.
someone in the comments suggested abbey, of which i have 1, so that helps a bit, but i expect it to drop heavily in price soon.
is there anything in SOI that will be playable in this sort of deck? Prefered upgrades would be in the newer sets (bfz block) so i can keep the deck for longer
Never played RDW before, but from what i can gather is that it is a face is the place race deck. seems like alot of fun.
Yeah, I also want to reduce the number of Westvale Abbey in my deck. I've reduced it from 3 down to 2. I was thinking I will flip it with the thopter tokens, but instead end up sacrificing a couple of non-token creatures.
I'm also looking to adding a couple of white cards, since I usually have 3-4 battlefield forge in the main. Finally, I'm running w/o thunderbreak, though I want to test it in the deck, just not sure what to take out.
I like Thunderbreak out of the SB since people usually bring in Virulent Plague, Radiant Flames, ect against us, or it's just good vs opposing Chandra's. Kinda a transitional sideboard and taking out some token producers. I guess Goldnight might just be better though.
4 Crumbling Vestige
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Westvale Abbey
1 Ruins of Oran Rief
4 Warping Wail
3 Vessel of Volatility
2 Spatial Contortion
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Sin Prodder
1 Akoum Firebird
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Thunderbreak Regent (BR Aggro)
2 Rending Volley (hasn't come in yet. Avacyn, I guess)
2 Scab-Clan Berserker (ramp, superfriends)
2 Eldrazi Displacer (ramp)
4 Kozilek's Return (coco, tokens, and aggro)
1 Hangarback Walker (insurance for "sacrifice a creature")
I built this without the artifact subtheme because I couldn't stomach how bad Thopter Engineer is in a vaccuum. I also wasn't pressuring ramp hard enough.
Vessel of Volatility has a subtle synergy with Sea Gate Wreckage. Some draws you just hit so much mana that you empty your hand on turn 5. Warping Wail, Matter Reshaper, and Hedron Crawler all can provide extra mana. Our lands let us use it.
This is IMO the ideal Sin Prodder deck. We really appreciate cards in hand, but there's enough high-CC cards that he puts real pressure on their life total. Akoum Firebird is currently being tested as another cute little interaction.
Hangarback Walker is amazing but it hates both Sin Prodder and Matter Reshaper. Haven't actually tested it though.
Sideboard is very much a work in progress. It's the worst part of the deck. There just aren't a lot of ways to hate out common strategies. The colors have no access to efficient exile effects or any sort of life gain. On the other hand, this deck is also hard for them to hate out.
Thopter Engineer is an amazing card. Getting two cards for one and a haste 1/1 artifact is excellent. You're running 2 Abbeys, but you don't want to produce more tokens? Tons of questionable choices all over the place here.
Starting point IMO should be very similar to the current Mono R Eldrazi decks putting up results in tournaments, replacing Tomb of Spirit Dragons that rotated out with Abbeys. Something like:
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Hedron Crawler
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Vile Aggregate
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
PLANESWALKERS
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Warping Wail
LANDS
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
4 Foundry of the Consuls
10 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Westvale Abbey
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Spatial Contortion
3 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Roast
1 Rending Volley
3 Kozilek's Return
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Tears of Valakut
1 Endbringer
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
This is false. I've beaten Ramp with ~ the stock R Eldrazi list from the prior format -- and I haven't even played the deck that much. I'm sure a more experienced pilot would have an easier time.
Sure. You have a better nut draw but the former R Eldrazi list is much better vs. removal in general -- thopters and eldrazi turn off removal. Whereas you just have the Eldrazi package -- and one that takes an entire turn to deploy an enchantment that doesn't effect the board the turn it comes into play. Reality Smasher a turn earlier will often be relevant but so can taking an entire turn off to deploy a t2 Vessel.
x Thopter Engineer
x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Here is my list though
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Hedron Crawler
4 Vile Aggregate
4 Thopter Engineer
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
PLANESWALKERS
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Roast
LANDS
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
3 Foundry of the Consuls
10 Mountain
2 Shivan Reef
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Westvale Abbey
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Spatial Contortion
3 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Roast
2 Rending Volley
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Akoum Firebird
1 Endbringer
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
I also rarely find myself out of cards with this deck because of the high curve, so 3 Sea Gate seems excessive, especially at the cost of removing a Foundry.
Otherwise I like your build so far. Seems very much along the lines of what I'm testing with it.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
4x Hedron Crawler
4x Thopter Engineer
4x Sin Prodder
2x Pilgrim's Eye
4x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
Planeswalkers: (4)
4x Chandra, Flamecaller
4x Draconic Roar
2x Roast
Lands: (25)
10x Mountain
4x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4x Foundry of the Consuls
4x Battlefield Forge
2x Shivan Reef
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
2x Boiling Earth
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Akoum Firebird
2x Rending Volley
1x Tears of Valakut
2x Fiery Impulse
3x Eldrazi Obligator
1x Oblivion Sower
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
The main point about the Sea Gates - I think it is a mistake not cutting it down to 1 or 2 to make room for 4 Foundry which does a lot more for this deck's gameplan. About Crumble: vs Abbey's, sorcery speed makes it less appealing. vs Ramp, we are hoping to hit a Sanctum but taking off our Turn 4 to do that doesn't seem so great (Shrine is far less valuable now without Ugin - it really is only there to make an earlier Ulamog, typically run as 1-2 of). We need to provide some early pressure to get in some damage before they start throwing out their haymakers with DL Atarka, Worldbreaker, and all. Then we bring in our Eldrazi Obligators to steal their one big beater to finish them off. I originally was planning on running Crumbles sideboard, but I'm thinking they just will not be that good this upcoming meta. Maybe 1 of, but I can easily see cutting it entirely.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I like the idea of incorporating Thunderbreak Regents and Draconic Roar into mono R eldrazi. Seems like a much better choice than roast in the new meta and is usually a better spatial contortion. What are the thopter's eyes for though? Seems like Vile Aggregate, hangarback walker or exquisite firecrafts are better options
Interesting build. Could you go into your thoughts behind this? Seems like a mix between wanting to go for a Dragons build but with only Thunderbreak, Draconic, and Haven, and then something more along the lines of a typical mono-red eldrazi build. If you're going this deep into dragons with 4 Roars and 4 Havens I feel like the build should be more focused on dragons all around.
Boiling Earth being sorcery speed is my main issue with it. We are going to face a good amount of decks generating tokens at instant speed with cards like Secure the Wastes, saccing Foundry with Thopter Engineer in play to give them haste, and the likes. I think Kozilek's Return is a better fit for instant speed, but I could be wrong since it does kill a good amount of our stuff too. Then again, if I'm casting K-return I'm doing it because I need to at that gamestate, so I'm willing to lose some creatures for it. Also I run Hangarbacks still in my list so killing them isn't so bad - just gives me thopters!
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I think Thunderbreak is just a better card when you're running Chandra defensively (-2 or -3 are very real plays). However, this cuts back on the P&Ks you can run, which in turn makes cards like HBW worse. So the build is compensating for that.
Haven of the Spirit Dragon is a colorless land that will sometimes draw you a TBR. I like it better than Sea Gate Wreckage. It's also an extra red source for your RR dragon spell -- for which you only have 16 sources otherwise. I tried working G or B into the lists but they always ended up clunky. Nothing like curving out.
You're right. Kozilek's Return is better and it'll find it's way into my SB.
____________________________________________
This is a big mana deck, so I wanted Pilgrim's Eye to make sure I hit my 4th and 5th land drop. It's a Borderland Ranger for this deck. While we're not using Ghor-Clan Rampager to push through damage with it's measly body like people were with Ranger, having a tad of evasive flying isn't the worst thing. We're already playing a card that gives us a flying 1/1 and a 1/3 -- why not a flying 1/1 and a land?
This deck only struggles when it has a tough time curving out. The best cards in your deck are 4, 5, and 6cmc. I want to play them on time.
____________________________________________
Goldnight Castigator is pretty sick. Though it's bad against decks that are pushing back. It also dies to removal spells the same as all your other threats -- whereas you could play something like P&K. I'm debating running P&K over Firebird in the SB just for the spot removal MUs.
Completely agreed. I think Westvale Abbey, though functionally very different from Tomb, can take its slots very easily to provide this deck an additional wincon. Akoum Firebird I can see in the sideboard to take the slots that previously were Ashcloud Phoenix. Not sure what is functionally equivalent to Outpost Siege in the side for grindier matchups. Sin Prodder in the side perhaps?
My current version is still very much in the spirit of the proven versions:
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Hedron Crawler
4 Thopter Engineer
4 Vile Aggregate
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
UTILITY / REMOVAL
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Warping Wail
1 Roast
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
4 Foundry of the Consuls
10 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Westvale Abbey
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Spatial Contortion
3 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Roast
1 Rending Volley
3 Kozilek's Return
1 Tears of Valakut
2 Akoum Firebird
1 Endbringer
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32705_The-Decks-To-Beat-At-SCGBALT.html
Outnumber is an interesting consideration.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
4x Hedron Crawler
4x Thopter Engineer
2x Sin Prodder
4x Thunderbreak Regent
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
4x Draconic Roar
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Roast
2x Hedron Archive
Planeswalker (3)
3x Chandra, Flamecaller
Lands (25)
12x Mountain
4x Battlefield Forge
4x Foundry of the Consuls
2x Sea Gate Wreckage
2x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1x Shivan Reef
-Cards to Consider-
Vs control decks this deck is decent. Both spot removal and non-exiling wraths aren't too devastating vs this deck. Thought-knot seers, Akoum Firebird (or other recurring threats), and Endbringer all serve well here in disruption and constant damage. Scab-clan beserker might be an option for more pressure early on. We're probably slightly favored vs control. (I speak a lot more about ramp since I also play that deck)
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
4x Battlefield Forge
1x Caves of Koilos
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
2x Declaration in Stone
2x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Foundry of the Consuls
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4x Hangarback Walker
3x Hedron Crawler
6x Mountain
2x Nahiri, the Harbinger
2x Needle Spires
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Plains
4x Reality Smasher
1x Ruins of Oran-Rief
1x Shivan Reef
2x Spatial Contortion
4x Thopter Engineer
3x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Westvale Abbey
1x Angelic Purge
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Declaration in Stone
3x Eldrazi Obligator
3x Kozilek's Return
3x Outnumber
2x Sin Prodder
1x Thought-Knot Seer
- Goldnight Castigator as a sideboard card has impressed me from day 1. 4 flying damage with haste in this new kind of slower Standard is an awesome rate. It's great against the Nissa / Gideon Decks and ramp, or decks that use spot removal instead of damage. It is still off people's radar, they'll gum up the ground with durdly tokens and you just one shot their walker or even just swing for 4 unblockable turn 3. Castigator into Smasher is also just ridiculous. Note that the drawback only affects Castigator and you, all your other creatures receive regular damage. It also replaces TKS nicely against Stasis Snare and Declaration in Stone, with the upside that removing the Castigator doesn't really affect our strategy of going wide with synergistic creatures. It's something they have to answer while you build your real game plan.
- I think at least 1 Hedron Archive belongs in the main. I've shaved a Crawler for it since Crawler is terrible after Turn 3-4. The Hedron is almost never a dead card: on one hand it fits nicely in the ramp progression this deck has with Crawler on 2 to hit 4 mana turn 3, on the other you can play it later on and tap it right away to make up for excess mana. I've never played it on curve, but sometimes it slid in my sequencing nicely by powering out an Engineer, Aggregate or Hangarback right away. I feel like sometimes between playing 2 threats or 1 threat and some 'stability' this deck would rather do the second. There is also the tiny advantage of interacting favorably with P&K, although it's never come up for me.
- Westvale Abbey feels like a Plan Z with the density of threats we run. You'll almost always have to sac a good creature if you're in a rush to flip it and by the time we have 5 creatures on board the game should be over in a few turns anyway. This deck isn't making 0/1 plants here, so the actual gain of a 9/8 flying lifelink most of the time is negligible, you'll be giving up some good synergy when saccing your board. If that's not the case, you are probably saccing mana producers to it and you're low on the land count. I've been running 2 but sometimes I even forget I have them, they're that relevant. It also fights with Foundry sometimes, again with the synergies we run even making just 2 extra Thopters can represent the same amount of damage, with the upside that they can keep you alive an extra turn to alpha strike and win.
- Warping Wail has been underperforming for me, none of the modes are particularly powerful when you consider the alternatives we have in this deck. The removal is nice but Contortion and Roast deal with so much more. The Scion token doesn't seem like enough either. I can see the sorcery counter being relevant, but I still feel like that's not enough. Outnumber seems solid, I like that it can hit flyers which are a huge problem for us. 4-5 damage to a flying creature aren't uncommon and that's almost exactly what we're looking for. With Siege Rhino gone I think Roast is gonna play less of a part in the format and I've found myself wishing it could hit flying creatures (hence the Tears of Valakut in the side).
- I already miss Outpost Siege so much. Chandra 0 is the best we have now ;_;
My latest list, for reference:
3 Hedron Crawler
4 Vile Aggregate
4 Thopter Engineer
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Outnumber
1 Roast
1 Hedron Archive
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Foundry of the Consuls
3 Shivan Reef
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
3 Battlefield Forge
2 Westvale Abbey
10 Mountain
1 Oblivion Sower
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Tears of Valakut
1 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Rending Volley
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Boiling Earth
2 Goldnight Castigator
1 Roast
Modern
Mono-U Tron
Zombie Loam
Infect
Legacy
Delver
TES
been looking at this build.
got a chandra, got the walkers, got the roasts got a pia/kiran, so i have a starting point.
The deck not too exspensive in terms of money, but exspensive enough yes.
someone in the comments suggested abbey, of which i have 1, so that helps a bit, but i expect it to drop heavily in price soon.
is there anything in SOI that will be playable in this sort of deck? Prefered upgrades would be in the newer sets (bfz block) so i can keep the deck for longer
Never played RDW before, but from what i can gather is that it is a face is the place race deck. seems like alot of fun.
I'm also looking to adding a couple of white cards, since I usually have 3-4 battlefield forge in the main. Finally, I'm running w/o thunderbreak, though I want to test it in the deck, just not sure what to take out.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW