It provides us with a solid 3 drop curve I felt was lacking from the deck.
I read that article as well, it seems pretty good, but I really see no reason to run 4 transgress...im gonna stick with Gideon and Kalitas. I havent had any trouble beating most of the likely deck lists, so I see no reason to change. let me know how your games go!
No where did I state that I won't be running Gideon or Kalitas, on the contrary, I'm still running 3 and 2 respectively. I think that combination is too good to pass up and fits into our game plan. If we can hit any 1 or 2 drop with Wasteland strangler it's a guaranteed 2 for 1.
Would you mind posting your list? Curious to know what ur dropping to fit the stranglers and transgress, if you feel like sharing.
If the Wasteland Strangler plan turns out to not be effective in this meta, I'll simply be going up to 4 Gideon and add more Secure the Wastes and some other filler spell.
I'm not sure why you would play Silkwrap over Declaration in Stone. Is it a budgetary thing, or do you have Delerium spells to turn on in your SB?
-Silk give me early removal and not lose Card Advantage (D.Stone is really dead card in control because make you use one card but give one extra card to oponent) also fit good with Trangress7Wasteland and make me keep umaking in hand for real problems.
While Declaration in Stone does give them a clue (which they can use to draw a card, but that then locks up mana) it also semi board wipes(especially against tokens, which don't give clues to the opp.) and can hit any CC of creature. It also goes good with Wasteland Strangler because the creature is exiled and it doesn't have the drawback of if the opp. is packing Dromoka's Command they can get their guy back.
The clue token should prove(in the majority of games) to be negligible compared to what you exile. Think you it like Thoughtknot Seer, yes you exile a card form their hand, but if they kill your Thoughtknot Seer they get to draw a card to replace the one you exiled. Why do you still play the creature then? Because you would rather them have to gamble on their deck then you have to deal with the card you exiled form their hand. Same thing with Declaration in Stone, you are having the opp. gamble that they draw something to replace what you got rid of and they have to pay mana to do it.
I went 3-1 tonight, losing to Mono Blue Eldrazi in the finals.
Some notes:
- Curving out Transgress the Mind or Declaration in Stone into Wasteland Strangler is a very strong line.
- Kalitas is a good magic card (who knew).
- This decks late game is powerful and can lean on manlands and Abbey to close out games where you flood.
- Declaration in Stone is the TRUTH.
- Linvala was excellent all night helping me stabilize and close out games.
- The eldrazi matchup is not easy. Thoughtnot Seer into Reality Smasher is a very real threat we'll be facing for the duration of their Standard existence.
Match ups felt okay..there WAS ALOT of bant,,,CoCo, humans, everywhere! My meta has a lot of aggro which is partially why my sideboard is so weird. I think I will probably try the Wasteland Strangler route as well, or something...im not 100% sure yet. I like the feel of the deck, but it was missing something tonight primarily because Eldrazi is an uphill battle.
of the 14 people there tonight: 5 bant, 4 eldrazi, 1 b/w control, 1 aritocrats brew, 1 r/g ramp, 2 B/R Vampires. I think I will also add back in Grasp of Darkness, the instant speed is a real plus here.
Brain in a Jar + Day's Undoing + Ob Nixilis Reignited (with Emblem) is 28 instant damage to the opponent's face... This seems like it would be a powerful finisher within a control skeleton. You would not even need to play blue sources of mana as Brain in a Jar pays it for the tap cost. Brains also allows you to Languish in response to an Avacyn trigger as well as playing other sorceries like Declaration in Stone as an instant.
With control being as little of the meta as usual, I think that makes Declaration in Stone mainboard material. You're bringing in hand disruption spells against them anyways right?
A side note, I think your list is far more Midrange/Aggro than Control. It looks to me like your list loses pretty hard to a single Languish unless you have 1 of your 3 creatures with greater toughness, or a Hangarback. No Kalitas in the mainboard seems wrong imo, since dropping him with 9 mana is just game over against most decks. Might want to make some changes to correct those things, since I'm pretty sure most lists in this thread would crush the decklist you just posted.
I played in a small FNM last night and went 4-0 to win. My meta was 1 x white weenie, 1 mirror, 1 BR Dragons and 1 UBW control. The mirror was the final round.
My creature suite is:
4 x Hangarbacks
2 x Ayli
3 x Kalitas
1 x Linvala
I'm also running 2 x Archangel of Tithes in the SB and they were invaluable against Weenie onslaught.
After this tournament I feel that the creature suite is about right. It means I have early threats against control that use up lots of resources and reduce the opponent's hand size. This helps me to feel more confident, when I have the wastes/planeswalker finish in hand, that I can push through the lethal damage. It also makes the deck more resilient to the fast aggro onslaught.
Ayli in particular has been golden. People are reluctant to block her or attack into her. Kalitas on the other hand, while full of great abilities and value, is a total removal magnet. He gets shot on sight. Against the hangarbacks, opponents just seem resigned to having to whittle them down with multiple spells and all the while I'm getting the time to build up my mana for a huge secure the wastes.
Another reason to use a number of non token creatures is virulent plague. People will get wise to an all token strategy, so some level of diversity of threat seems the way forward.
Would like some feedback on this list. Been back and forth with it, definitely a very successful archetype. Initially built it heavily against aggro. Have Tweaked it to also hold up to G/R ramp and to have more PW hate.
SB is still a work in progress by far.
There seems to be a lot of weenie pumping. Always watching is a beating. Maindeck Transgress hopefully hits it or Felidar cub
I played in a small FNM last night and went 4-0 to win. My meta was 1 x white weenie, 1 mirror, 1 BR Dragons and 1 UBW control. The mirror was the final round.
My creature suite is:
4 x Hangarbacks
2 x Ayli
3 x Kalitas
1 x Linvala
I'm also running 2 x Archangel of Tithes in the SB and they were invaluable against Weenie onslaught.
After this tournament I feel that the creature suite is about right. It means I have early threats against control that use up lots of resources and reduce the opponent's hand size. This helps me to feel more confident, when I have the wastes/planeswalker finish in hand, that I can push through the lethal damage. It also makes the deck more resilient to the fast aggro onslaught.
Ayli in particular has been golden. People are reluctant to block her or attack into her. Kalitas on the other hand, while full of great abilities and value, is a total removal magnet. He gets shot on sight. Against the hangarbacks, opponents just seem resigned to having to whittle them down with multiple spells and all the while I'm getting the time to build up my mana for a huge secure the wastes.
Another reason to use a number of non token creatures is virulent plague. People will get wise to an all token strategy, so some level of diversity of threat seems the way forward.
Is there a reason there is no Avacyn in this deck?
So since I have not seen anyone else put anything up I wanted to mention this. During some grind testing yesterday i ran accross esper walkers (yeah still a thing aparently), it beats us bloody every time. I played 10 games against it and never beat it once. I am attributing a couple of those games to simply playing a new deck and making silly mistakes but the reason i wanted to mention it is that i think we might need to have some extra ruinous path in the side. I run 1 in the main with 3 to the slaughter and still couldn't deal with the walkers.
So since I have not seen anyone else put anything up I wanted to mention this. During some grind testing yesterday i ran accross esper walkers (yeah still a thing aparently), it beats us bloody every time. I played 10 games against it and never beat it once. I am attributing a couple of those games to simply playing a new deck and making silly mistakes but the reason i wanted to mention it is that i think we might need to have some extra ruinous path in the side. I run 1 in the main with 3 to the slaughter and still couldn't deal with the walkers.
Well running 3 To the Slaughter is incorrect int he first place IMO. With Sorin, Anguished Unmaking and discard spells you should have a fair time against Esper. I'm not saying it will be a walk in the park, but if you board correctly then it shouldn't be a landslide. I also haven't seen a competitive control list yet besides B/W so I have no basis for side boarding in my local meta against it.
So since I have not seen anyone else put anything up I wanted to mention this. During some grind testing yesterday i ran accross esper walkers (yeah still a thing aparently), it beats us bloody every time. I played 10 games against it and never beat it once. I am attributing a couple of those games to simply playing a new deck and making silly mistakes but the reason i wanted to mention it is that i think we might need to have some extra ruinous path in the side. I run 1 in the main with 3 to the slaughter and still couldn't deal with the walkers.
Well running 3 To the Slaughter is incorrect int he first place IMO. With Sorin, Anguished Unmaking and discard spells you should have a fair time against Esper. I'm not saying it will be a walk in the park, but if you board correctly then it shouldn't be a landslide. I also haven't seen a competitive control list yet besides B/W so I have no basis for side boarding in my local meta against it.
This^ Against control matchups our discard is very strong; and we can handle Jace and TITI with ease. Aggro isn't hard either; barring a nut draw we can shut them down before they get out of hand.
My question is, what do we bring in against the mid-range/ramp decks? Seems like anything running eldrazi smokes me and I can never stabilize.
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:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
So since I have not seen anyone else put anything up I wanted to mention this. During some grind testing yesterday i ran accross esper walkers (yeah still a thing aparently), it beats us bloody every time. I played 10 games against it and never beat it once. I am attributing a couple of those games to simply playing a new deck and making silly mistakes but the reason i wanted to mention it is that i think we might need to have some extra ruinous path in the side. I run 1 in the main with 3 to the slaughter and still couldn't deal with the walkers.
Well running 3 To the Slaughter is incorrect int he first place IMO. With Sorin, Anguished Unmaking and discard spells you should have a fair time against Esper. I'm not saying it will be a walk in the park, but if you board correctly then it shouldn't be a landslide. I also haven't seen a competitive control list yet besides B/W so I have no basis for side boarding in my local meta against it.
I think i understand what you are saying. However i would like to give a little more context so that actual advice can be discussed. The list I ran against would probably be weird for most other walker type decks but it ran gideon, sorin, ob nixilis, new jace, and narset. Plus counterspells and board wipe. i don't think you can have enough discard, unmaking, and sorin in hand to deal with a board like this. Lets say I take a hand that would be acceptable, two or three lands, a transgress, a duress, and a anguished. OK so nobody does anything until later in the game right? So this mean that even though you can pplay a turn two transgress, they are still going to draw other cards in the mean time until the turn four or five when most things happen. Even if you attempt to trade one for one with the walkers, they have counterspells to back them up as well as simply letting you do it and waiting until you attempt to play any kind of board presence to counter. I'm not trying to whine or say it is an unbeatable matchup but at the same time it is certainly a weakness and pretty much all of our creature kill is completely useless. What I am trying to figure out is what can we have in the side to make a matchup like this more winnable? Like it or not they will have counterspells and we do not so unless they are a horrible control player they will wait until we try to do something or wait until they can play something and protect it. Ob, Narset, Sorin, and jace all pretty much say +1 draw a acard so oncce a walker is down the odds become increasingly stacked with each turn.
Now, I know that the list I played against might end up being a rogue deck you only see rarely but at the same time walker control is thing and we need to have options beyond attempting to lose three life and exile a single card. Discard is a good options we can do it earlier than they can reasonably counter, but I'm not sure if duress and trasngress is enough. Are there other hand control options that would allow us to disrupt them effectively?
So since I have not seen anyone else put anything up I wanted to mention this. During some grind testing yesterday i ran accross esper walkers (yeah still a thing aparently), it beats us bloody every time. I played 10 games against it and never beat it once. I am attributing a couple of those games to simply playing a new deck and making silly mistakes but the reason i wanted to mention it is that i think we might need to have some extra ruinous path in the side. I run 1 in the main with 3 to the slaughter and still couldn't deal with the walkers.
Well running 3 To the Slaughter is incorrect int he first place IMO. With Sorin, Anguished Unmaking and discard spells you should have a fair time against Esper. I'm not saying it will be a walk in the park, but if you board correctly then it shouldn't be a landslide. I also haven't seen a competitive control list yet besides B/W so I have no basis for side boarding in my local meta against it.
I think i understand what you are saying. However i would like to give a little more context so that actual advice can be discussed. The list I ran against would probably be weird for most other walker type decks but it ran gideon, sorin, ob nixilis, new jace, and narset. Plus counterspells and board wipe. i don't think you can have enough discard, unmaking, and sorin in hand to deal with a board like this. Lets say I take a hand that would be acceptable, two or three lands, a transgress, a duress, and a anguished. OK so nobody does anything until later in the game right? So this mean that even though you can pplay a turn two transgress, they are still going to draw other cards in the mean time until the turn four or five when most things happen. Even if you attempt to trade one for one with the walkers, they have counterspells to back them up as well as simply letting you do it and waiting until you attempt to play any kind of board presence to counter. I'm not trying to whine or say it is an unbeatable matchup but at the same time it is certainly a weakness and pretty much all of our creature kill is completely useless. What I am trying to figure out is what can we have in the side to make a matchup like this more winnable? Like it or not they will have counterspells and we do not so unless they are a horrible control player they will wait until we try to do something or wait until they can play something and protect it. Ob, Narset, Sorin, and jace all pretty much say +1 draw a acard so oncce a walker is down the odds become increasingly stacked with each turn.
Now, I know that the list I played against might end up being a rogue deck you only see rarely but at the same time walker control is thing and we need to have options beyond attempting to lose three life and exile a single card. Discard is a good options we can do it earlier than they can reasonably counter, but I'm not sure if duress and trasngress is enough. Are there other hand control options that would allow us to disrupt them effectively?
This is just me speaking from the experiences I've had with the deck. In a role like that, your creatures are going to do the heavy lifting. They can't counter everything; simply impossible. Just like how you can't remove everything. I don't know how your main is set up, but games 2 and 3 you should slide in as much discard as possible. If you're REALLY having issues, then just delay your turn and then hit them with duress/transgress and when they counter that, follow up with your removal. I can't say I've ever had an issue with control, but I haven't played superfriends so I might be wrong. Also games 2/3 you should probably focus more on your pw removal and ditch some of your creature removal (not all, but you know what I mean.) That's all the advice I know how to give.
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Standard Decks:
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
Looks like a BW Midrange list made it to the top 8 piloted by Blake Conti. Can't find a list yet though
SCG has decklists up now for the top 64. I would say about 12-16 of the top 64 were BW variants, ranging from control to midrange to eldrazi. I'm curious to see how we organize this thread because running no creatures, a lot of creatures, and running Eldrazi creates different removal needs.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Is there any specific reason why pure BW control is completely gone?
It seems super powerful.
It's not really gone. It's just the beginning of the set and midrange and aggro is easier to test the waters and see how the meta shakes out. You will definitely see more "control" lists come up eventually. Midrange is just a lot safer right now.
I played numerous w/x humans decks over the past week and had no trouble beating them with a control suite; however, eldrazi- particularly TKS into Reality Smasher was a huge problem. I think eventually a more "control" style will edge out midrange, but for now go with what works
Is there any specific reason why pure BW control is completely gone?
It seems super powerful.
It's not really gone. It's just the beginning of the set and midrange and aggro is easier to test the waters and see how the meta shakes out. You will definitely see more "control" lists come up eventually. Midrange is just a lot safer right now.
I played numerous w/x humans decks over the past week and had no trouble beating them with a control suite; however, eldrazi- particularly TKS into Reality Smasher was a huge problem. I think eventually a more "control" style will edge out midrange, but for now go with what works
That's a fair point. Control is much more meta-dependent.
I will say this: secure the waste into abby does not feel fair
Is there any specific reason why pure BW control is completely gone?
It seems super powerful.
It's not really gone. It's just the beginning of the set and midrange and aggro is easier to test the waters and see how the meta shakes out. You will definitely see more "control" lists come up eventually. Midrange is just a lot safer right now.
I played numerous w/x humans decks over the past week and had no trouble beating them with a control suite; however, eldrazi- particularly TKS into Reality Smasher was a huge problem. I think eventually a more "control" style will edge out midrange, but for now go with what works
That's a fair point. Control is much more meta-dependent.
I will say this: secure the waste into abby does not feel fair
I really like that control deck above...although imo -1 Gideon +1 Sorin (he's THAT good) imo...keen to get back to the LGS for some testing!!!
I am partial to Ob coming down earlier but perhaps Sorin is the right swap. Also not convinced by Descend, the exile seems rarely needed and Delirium rarely triggers. Plus more Declaration before Silkwraps. I don't know about running Ruinous Path and Stasis Snare. Does U.Price hit consistently enough that it's worth running over Grasp of Darkness not sure what Grasp misses that U.Price doesn't. The double black leads me to want to cut the double white spells but maybe Snare is that good that you just go for it.
I'm not sure what that removal package in the board is trying to hit... Maybe you keep Quarantine Field out of it, but the risk seems too risky for me.
-1 Quarantine Field
-1 Silkwrap
-1 Stasis Snare
-1 Ultimate Price
-1 Declaration
Here's what I'm playing tonight:
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Wasteland Strangler
1x Linvala, the Preserver
Planeswalkers
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Instants / Sorceries
4x Declaration in Stone
4x Transgress the Mind
2x Ultimate Price
1x Ruinous Path
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Languish
2x Read the Bones
2x Secure the Wastes
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Shambling Vent
4x Forsaken Sanctuary
2x Westvale Abbey
8x Swamp
4x Plains
4x Surge of Righteousness
1x Languish
1x Planar Outburst
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Linvala, the Preserver
1x Read the Bones
1x Felidar Cub
2x Risen Executioner
2x Duress
1x Anguished Unmaking
If the Wasteland Strangler plan turns out to not be effective in this meta, I'll simply be going up to 4 Gideon and add more Secure the Wastes and some other filler spell.
While Declaration in Stone does give them a clue (which they can use to draw a card, but that then locks up mana) it also semi board wipes(especially against tokens, which don't give clues to the opp.) and can hit any CC of creature. It also goes good with Wasteland Strangler because the creature is exiled and it doesn't have the drawback of if the opp. is packing Dromoka's Command they can get their guy back.
The clue token should prove(in the majority of games) to be negligible compared to what you exile. Think you it like Thoughtknot Seer, yes you exile a card form their hand, but if they kill your Thoughtknot Seer they get to draw a card to replace the one you exiled. Why do you still play the creature then? Because you would rather them have to gamble on their deck then you have to deal with the card you exiled form their hand. Same thing with Declaration in Stone, you are having the opp. gamble that they draw something to replace what you got rid of and they have to pay mana to do it.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Some notes:
- Curving out Transgress the Mind or Declaration in Stone into Wasteland Strangler is a very strong line.
- Kalitas is a good magic card (who knew).
- This decks late game is powerful and can lean on manlands and Abbey to close out games where you flood.
- Declaration in Stone is the TRUTH.
- Linvala was excellent all night helping me stabilize and close out games.
- The eldrazi matchup is not easy. Thoughtnot Seer into Reality Smasher is a very real threat we'll be facing for the duration of their Standard existence.
Changes to my list:
Mainboard
-2 Ultimate Price
+2 Grasp of Darkness
-1 Swamp
+1 Blighted Fen
Sideboard
-4 Surge of Righteousness
+2 Stasis Snare
+2 Planar Outburst
These changes are to help with the Eldrazi archetype.
- Superseed
2-1 vs R/G Ramp
2-0 over B/R madness vampies.
My loses were to blue eldrazi and to Bant CoCo-I guess you would call it.
I played:
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
4 Shambling Vent
4 Caves of Koilos
6 Swamp
2 Westvale Abbey // Ormendahl, Profane Prince
5 plains
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (2)
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells (26)
4 Read the Bones
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Duress
3 Ruinous Path
4 Declaration in Stone
4 Secure the Wastes
1 Planar Outburst
2 Languish
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Dead Weight
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Archangel Avacyn Flip
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
2 Infinite Obliteration
2 Languish
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Match ups felt okay..there WAS ALOT of bant,,,CoCo, humans, everywhere! My meta has a lot of aggro which is partially why my sideboard is so weird. I think I will probably try the Wasteland Strangler route as well, or something...im not 100% sure yet. I like the feel of the deck, but it was missing something tonight primarily because Eldrazi is an uphill battle.
of the 14 people there tonight: 5 bant, 4 eldrazi, 1 b/w control, 1 aritocrats brew, 1 r/g ramp, 2 B/R Vampires. I think I will also add back in Grasp of Darkness, the instant speed is a real plus here.
A side note, I think your list is far more Midrange/Aggro than Control. It looks to me like your list loses pretty hard to a single Languish unless you have 1 of your 3 creatures with greater toughness, or a Hangarback. No Kalitas in the mainboard seems wrong imo, since dropping him with 9 mana is just game over against most decks. Might want to make some changes to correct those things, since I'm pretty sure most lists in this thread would crush the decklist you just posted.
My creature suite is:
4 x Hangarbacks
2 x Ayli
3 x Kalitas
1 x Linvala
I'm also running 2 x Archangel of Tithes in the SB and they were invaluable against Weenie onslaught.
After this tournament I feel that the creature suite is about right. It means I have early threats against control that use up lots of resources and reduce the opponent's hand size. This helps me to feel more confident, when I have the wastes/planeswalker finish in hand, that I can push through the lethal damage. It also makes the deck more resilient to the fast aggro onslaught.
Ayli in particular has been golden. People are reluctant to block her or attack into her. Kalitas on the other hand, while full of great abilities and value, is a total removal magnet. He gets shot on sight. Against the hangarbacks, opponents just seem resigned to having to whittle them down with multiple spells and all the while I'm getting the time to build up my mana for a huge secure the wastes.
Another reason to use a number of non token creatures is virulent plague. People will get wise to an all token strategy, so some level of diversity of threat seems the way forward.
SB is still a work in progress by far.
There seems to be a lot of weenie pumping. Always watching is a beating. Maindeck Transgress hopefully hits it or Felidar cub
2 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Forsaken Sanctuary
6 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
6 Swamp
2 Westvale Abbey
Spells
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Stasis Snare
4 Transgress the Mind
1 Ob Nixilis, Reignited
3 Gideon Ally of Zendikar
2 Archangel Avacyn
2 Anguished Unmaking
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Declaration in Stone
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Ruinous Path
2 Languish
3 Read the Bones
3 Secure the Wastes
2 Felidar Cub
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Linvala, The Preserver
2 Duress
1 Planar Outburst
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Infinite Obliteration
3 Hallowed Moonlight
Is there a reason there is no Avacyn in this deck?
Well running 3 To the Slaughter is incorrect int he first place IMO. With Sorin, Anguished Unmaking and discard spells you should have a fair time against Esper. I'm not saying it will be a walk in the park, but if you board correctly then it shouldn't be a landslide. I also haven't seen a competitive control list yet besides B/W so I have no basis for side boarding in my local meta against it.
This^ Against control matchups our discard is very strong; and we can handle Jace and TITI with ease. Aggro isn't hard either; barring a nut draw we can shut them down before they get out of hand.
My question is, what do we bring in against the mid-range/ramp decks? Seems like anything running eldrazi smokes me and I can never stabilize.
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
I think i understand what you are saying. However i would like to give a little more context so that actual advice can be discussed. The list I ran against would probably be weird for most other walker type decks but it ran gideon, sorin, ob nixilis, new jace, and narset. Plus counterspells and board wipe. i don't think you can have enough discard, unmaking, and sorin in hand to deal with a board like this. Lets say I take a hand that would be acceptable, two or three lands, a transgress, a duress, and a anguished. OK so nobody does anything until later in the game right? So this mean that even though you can pplay a turn two transgress, they are still going to draw other cards in the mean time until the turn four or five when most things happen. Even if you attempt to trade one for one with the walkers, they have counterspells to back them up as well as simply letting you do it and waiting until you attempt to play any kind of board presence to counter. I'm not trying to whine or say it is an unbeatable matchup but at the same time it is certainly a weakness and pretty much all of our creature kill is completely useless. What I am trying to figure out is what can we have in the side to make a matchup like this more winnable? Like it or not they will have counterspells and we do not so unless they are a horrible control player they will wait until we try to do something or wait until they can play something and protect it. Ob, Narset, Sorin, and jace all pretty much say +1 draw a acard so oncce a walker is down the odds become increasingly stacked with each turn.
Now, I know that the list I played against might end up being a rogue deck you only see rarely but at the same time walker control is thing and we need to have options beyond attempting to lose three life and exile a single card. Discard is a good options we can do it earlier than they can reasonably counter, but I'm not sure if duress and trasngress is enough. Are there other hand control options that would allow us to disrupt them effectively?
This is just me speaking from the experiences I've had with the deck. In a role like that, your creatures are going to do the heavy lifting. They can't counter everything; simply impossible. Just like how you can't remove everything. I don't know how your main is set up, but games 2 and 3 you should slide in as much discard as possible. If you're REALLY having issues, then just delay your turn and then hit them with duress/transgress and when they counter that, follow up with your removal. I can't say I've ever had an issue with control, but I haven't played superfriends so I might be wrong. Also games 2/3 you should probably focus more on your pw removal and ditch some of your creature removal (not all, but you know what I mean.) That's all the advice I know how to give.
:symw::symw:W/u Humans (No Geist!):symw::symu:
Record: 22-3-0
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Wasteland Strangler
3 Archangel Avacyn
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
8 Plains
5 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Forsaken Sanctuary
4 Shambling Vent
2 Westvale Abbey
2 Stasis Snare
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Secure the Wastes
3 Declaration in Stone
3 Read the Bones
1 Ruinous Path
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis, Reignited
2 Duress
3 Flaying Tendrils
1 Planar Outburst
4 Transgress the Mind
It seems super powerful.
It's not really gone. It's just the beginning of the set and midrange and aggro is easier to test the waters and see how the meta shakes out. You will definitely see more "control" lists come up eventually. Midrange is just a lot safer right now.
I played numerous w/x humans decks over the past week and had no trouble beating them with a control suite; however, eldrazi- particularly TKS into Reality Smasher was a huge problem. I think eventually a more "control" style will edge out midrange, but for now go with what works
That's a fair point. Control is much more meta-dependent.
I will say this: secure the waste into abby does not feel fair
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Plains
6 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Forsaken Sanctuary
4 Shambling Vent
3 Westvale Abbey
2 Silkwrap
2 Stasis Snare
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Grasp of Darkness
3 Secure the Wastes
2 Ultimate Price
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Descend upon the Sinful
2 Languish
3 Read the Bones
2 Ruinous Path
3 Transgress the Mind
1 Quarantine Field
1 Silkwrap
1 Stasis Snare
1 Ultimate Price
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Linvala, the Preserver
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Declaration in Stone
3 Duress
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Languish
1 Ruinous Path
1 Transgress the Mind
-1 Gideon
-2 Silkwrap
-2 Descend
-1 Price
+1 Sorin/Ob
+2 Declaration
+1 Languish
+1 Planar Outburst
+1 Gasp of Darkness
I'm not sure what that removal package in the board is trying to hit... Maybe you keep Quarantine Field out of it, but the risk seems too risky for me.
-1 Quarantine Field
-1 Silkwrap
-1 Stasis Snare
-1 Ultimate Price
-1 Declaration
+2 Flaying Tendrils
+1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
+2 Hallowed Moonlight