I'm a predominately Red player playing Standard and Modern my average rating ranges from 1750-1850.
So what does this mean? It means that I win, quite a lot and get to play magic for free because I'm making a profit My ranking also places me in the "Able to win PTQs" level in accordance too this SCG article
- - - - - -
What make my videos different from the other "PRO" videos? Well to put it simply: I'm actually not that good! I often misplay and I only consider myself an average player which places me on the same level as most of you guys. So if I'm not that good how on earth do I manage to post such consistently good results? With careful planning and preparation, including keeping a close eye on the MTGO meta game and tweaking my deck and SB plan accordingly. This is something that YOU can do too! In my videos I share all of my lists, sideboarding plans and meta tweaks and explain my spell sequencing stages.
If you enjoy these videos let me know, by subbing and comments
@gypsyhummus: On the play with 22 lands you have 53.9% of hitting 4-lands by turn 4 and 36.7% by turn 5... you will need either more lands or 2-3 drops, if your looking for something to cut I suggest cutting some of your pump spells - 8 pumps spells is a bit much with only 12-18 creatures (esp. if almost half those creatures are 3cc+).
@Zhakad: If possible could you use the edit button to merge those 4-post together (in most forums double posting is frowned on)?
@Kahmos: Dragon Tribal won a grinder at GP NY (though its not an aggro deck so I won't post it here).
the pilot, Raymond Tan, ended up top 24, which is not too shabby, considering arounnd 3400 people joined, from what i've read.
Nice pickup. It's unfortunate that they only published top 16 in the results decklists for that GP, as it would get a bit more exposure that way. Either way, top 32 at a GP level I think is Rx best finish so far.
@MDU: oops. sorry about that. fixed. nice videos, btw, and i have already subscribed to your YT channel some time ago. your latest deck interests me and should work nicely vs my local meta. also, i have started playing at MTGO myself and made an Insolent Red deck by Saffron Olive to test and get the hang of things.
@Nevelo: it has its own deck tech article, though, which is nice. i thought Wizards is trying to erase R/x Aggro's existence from tournaments.
Deck tech is good for sure. I guess I doesn't get the punch of 'success' when it isn't obvious that it finished well.
I don't know that WoTC wants to erase red. But they certainly want to nerf our reach, which to me kinda misses the point of the whole archetype (trade off of worse aggro creatures for reach).
Deck tech is good for sure. I guess I doesn't get the punch of 'success' when it isn't obvious that it finished well.
I don't know that WoTC wants to erase red. But they certainly want to nerf our reach, which to me kinda misses the point of the whole archetype (trade off of worse aggro creatures for reach).
well, we'll just have to live through Wizard's decisions. hopefully, we'll get better cards next set. a simple Lightning Strike reprint would greatly help.
I am however, thinking of maybe replacing some or all of the Lightning Berserkers for Falkenrath Gorger, to basically get in an extra point of damage or two, a la Jackal Pup.
I reached the opposite conclusion after playing with each for a while. Gorger was a good T1 play against slower decks and as an early surge enabler for Reckless Bushwhacker, but generally isn't something I wanted to see mid/late game. No haste and/or evasion really hurts.
Berserker sometimes gives up a point or two of damage vs. Gorger early on but he's useful at all stages of the game and helps keep the deck going in the late game if things don't go to plan.
Doesn't Atarka's Command prohibit healing? Should green be in the deck for B/G Aristocrats?
Good idea. I'll try to grab a playset this week and sleeve it up. Green opens up Clip Wings for the SB too, which will hopefully help with Abbey wrecking my face.
is it consensus that four dragons and four draconic roars is a good pairing? Are they always consistent?
I'd be interested to hear people's experiences with Regent/Roar as well. I want Roar but haven't been able to convince myself to commit to the change in my curve yet.
I played a deck with 4 Roar and 4 Thunderbreak to a top 8 of a 120+ GP side event (last year during BFZ format). The added bonus on Roar isn't super consistent, but it felt a bit broken when I did get it. I think with 4 Dragons its only 60%. Mainly Roar was just an early removal spell, which is what most Lightning Strikes will be anyway.
Deck tech is good for sure. I guess I doesn't get the punch of 'success' when it isn't obvious that it finished well.
I don't know that WoTC wants to erase red. But they certainly want to nerf our reach, which to me kinda misses the point of the whole archetype (trade off of worse aggro creatures for reach).
Agreed. Im pretty sure that there is always supposed to be a red deck in the standard format, as it is a relatively good color for budget players and brings people into events (if there wasn't a viable 20-30$ red deck, I certainly wouldn't be playing standard). Some seasons it will be a tier 1 deck, as we saw in khans block, other seasons it will be a tier two or even tier 3. Though I will say, a good pilot for a red deck could always probably have a shot at winning/going 4-0 at FNM, no matter the format. As long as there is some semblance of burn.
@Gypsyhummus: Doubleposting, provided it isn't spam, is allowed (yeah I had to check the rules on this one) but its considered poor internet etiquette - if possible could you merge the post with the edit button?
Now for your question: I think Skin Invasion is solid if you have decent blockers and your meta is Aristocrats heavy - that said I don't think you should be purposely killing your own cards just to flip the skin, its better used as a 2-for-1 (to force opp. creature into bad trades or as sweeper protection - though it can be dodgy if your opp. resolve a lifelinker after you set it up).
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Its also much easier to sell/trade cards and boosters to go inf. (though with the token system its now harder to build a bank then it was back in the day).
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How is Insolent Red? I think the original state list is better (not by much though) it seem like it scoops to Humans, Bant Coco and GW Tokens.
Its also much easier to sell/trade cards and boosters to go inf. (though with the token system its now harder to build a bank then it was back in the day).
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How is Insolent Red? I think the original state list is better (not by much though) it seem like it scopes to Humans, Bant Coco and GW Tokens.
i started with the ultra budget version of Insolent Red first just to familiarize myself with MTGO (i used to play Magic Duels). i plan to buy upgrades for the deck soon.
the deck's been doing good so far. i was able to beat W/u humans, G/B Rites (? unsure of the my opponent's deck), Mono Blue Brains and a few other decks. so i am quite happy with it. so much so that i just went to the nearby LGS and bought the paper pieces i am missing. alas, there's no Skin Invasion so i'll have to look elsewhere.
what do you mean by "it scopes to Humans, Bant Coco and GW Tokens?"
That is me failing to type (as per usual) - auto-correct changed my spelling of scoops into scopes
Anyhow it seems to lack the reach, evasion and removals to get past a swarm, I'm not sure if you recall or not but I did play MonoR Madness very early on with SOI release (we chatted about it on the RB madness thread) the list was very similar except I didn't value Skins or Mad Vampires at the time and that was my experience.
That is me failing to type (as per usual) - auto-correct changed my spelling of scoops into scopes
Anyhow it seems to lack the reach and removals to get past a swarm, I'm not sure if you recall or not but I did play MonoR Madness very early on with SOI release (we chatted about it on the RB madness thread) the list was very similar except I didn't value Skins or Mad Vampires at the time and that was my experience.
ah. yes, i remember that.
if the meta shifts to being more control-oriented, then mono red aggro may get a chance to shine again. that's what the Atarka Red guy at GP Tokyo counted on and he ended up top 24. so if my local meta shifts similarly, i wanna have a deck that's ready for them.
I think Skin Invasion is solid if you have decent blockers and your meta is Aristocrats heavy - that said I don't think you should be purposely killing your own cards just to flip the skin, its better used as a 2-for-1 (to force opp. creature into bad trades or as sweeper protection - though it can be dodgy if your opp. resolve a lifelinker after you set it up).
Pretty much my experience with Skin Invasion as well. The Skin/Neonate interaction is cute, but there's a lot more utility beyond that. I've been putting it on my opponents creatures a lot more often than my own.
Hey guys. Please take a look at our MTGS Rules -- specifically the section discussing "spam".
Instead of double posting, please take the time to either edit your previous post or to merge your post (if you need help, ask me and I'll help you out). It'll save every one time and -- for the members who are subscribed to this thread -- it'll save everyone pointless notifications.
So I have been working on this deck for the past couple of weeks and can't get any advice (being ignored for having red in my build) on the "Humans" thread. The last iteration got me 3rd place at my LGS weekly standard tournament going 3-1. Since it is Red and White I was hoping to post here for some input (as MDU and Nevelo always chime in when help is needed) if this is the wrong place I apologize. Here is the latest build:
Previously I had two more Dragonmaster Outcast in the deck but multiples in hand were not working out. I also had a Rending Volley main deck but took it out.
Interesting article by SaffronOlive on MTGGoldfish as part of his budget Magic series. This time he runs a deck that's been talked about (sort of) on here, that uses Devil's Playground and Dance with the Devils, but he combines them with Pyromancer's Goggles and Descent of the Dragons to make them all 4/4 Dragons (and obviously they still deal damage as they die). The write up is here, and I've posted the initial version below. While the ultra-budget version probably sucks without Westvale Abbey and Goggles, the non-budget version basically just adds more Westvale Abbeys (he also adds a couple of Chandras, but then says that "they can wait"). I'm actually kind of interested in running this, but could it be worth thinking about adding cards that were suggested before - Embermaw Hellion or Flameblade Angel in place of the Descents?
Aggro deck is a Magic: The Gathering term for an agressive deck which attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing. Usually these decks will use small, hard-hitting creatures to win the game. - Aggro deck - MTG Salvation Wiki
Devil goggles really shouldn't be post here (I actually think a thread on it would be quite popular here on MTGS much like Brain in the Shore).
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I agree with your definition MDU, but in the last rotation (with KTK/FRF/DTK/BFZ/OGW), we did begin to discuss the idea of a more "medium-Red" idea. Also, with the absence of anything good to deal quick damage early, I'm not sure how strict we can really be right now in following it. One more thing - the deck kind of does have persistent damage dealing. Impact Tremors, Fiery Temper, Fiery Impulse, Dragon Fodder are all quick and early threats that need to be answered. The more medium range stuff is just an adaptation of the deck to be able to cope with a more controlling meta at the moment.
Do you have any particular use in mind for Nahiri? She tops your curve but doesn't seem to do anything to advance your plan.
As this deck moves forward my thought on Nahari, the Harbinger was to use Stern Constable in place of the the Thraben Inspector. Tap their creature with the Constable and exile it with Nahiri. Perhaps I want to do too much and I should make her the other Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. The deck can be explosive on the aggro side and can move into a longer game. I beat Esper Control last night 2-0, game one was quick, but game two I had a slow start and had to kill Narset, Ob Nixilus, Jace, and Sorin before I could get him dead. Depending on board state and the right cards drawn you can flip Kytheon as soon as turn 3 with a Reckless Bushwacker. The Bushwacker and Lightning Berserker are MVP's in this deck. Dashing the Lightning Berserker to build up Thalia's Lieutenant or get Clues from Bygone Bishop is sweet (and helped my beat Esper Control game 2).
@Drummadude: The Wx Human thread should provide you with more sound advice since they actually play with Wx Humans, but here is my theory based 2-cents.
I see idea behind the deck - your throwing away consistency in favour for more outs vs Control (which I think is a decent idea).
Here is what I think:
1) Play 3-4x Gryff's Boon MD its decent vs everything and is pretty much the ONLY way you stand a chance vs Aristocrats, GW Tokens and the Mirror.
2) Your running 4-Drops with only 21 lands (which gives you just over 49% chance of hitting 4-lands on curve) so you should run 4x Knight of the White Orchid.
3) Nahiri, the Harbinger doesn't seem great.
EDIT: You should continue to ask for advice on the Wx thread - but if that doesn't help you can PM me and I'll try my best.
@JonInWherever: My main issues with including builds with massive numbers of 5-6 drops (which are midrange/control/ramp) is the question of where does it stop? If we accept devil goggle should we also talk about MonoR Eldrazi, RU Goggle, RU Flash Dragons, Rx Ramp, Jund, BR Control/midrange, RW Goggles and all the other list which happen to play red?
I think it could become really messy...
EDIT: I'm aware of the hypocrisy of my post considering I'm talking about a Wr deck ;).
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I've been testing 4x Dragon Whisperer and I can say I've been really impressed.
Player background:
I'm a predominately Red player playing Standard and Modern my average rating ranges from 1750-1850.
So what does this mean? It means that I win, quite a lot and get to play magic for free because I'm making a profit My ranking also places me in the "Able to win PTQs" level in accordance too this SCG article
- - - - - -
What make my videos different from the other "PRO" videos? Well to put it simply: I'm actually not that good! I often misplay and I only consider myself an average player which places me on the same level as most of you guys. So if I'm not that good how on earth do I manage to post such consistently good results? With careful planning and preparation, including keeping a close eye on the MTGO meta game and tweaking my deck and SB plan accordingly. This is something that YOU can do too! In my videos I share all of my lists, sideboarding plans and meta tweaks and explain my spell sequencing stages.
If you enjoy these videos let me know, by subbing and comments
21 Mountain
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
Spells 14
4 Draconic Roar
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Titan's Strength
2 Roast
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
2 Avaricious Dragon
3 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Village Messenger
3 Zurgo Bellstriker
3 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
1 Lose Calm
1 Tears of Valakut
1 Fiery Impulse
1 Devour in Flames
1 Avaricious Dragon
3 Twin Bolt
3 Rending Volley
4 Goldnight Castigator
G1 Naya Superfriends vs Red Dragons Standard LE 7
G2 RG Landfall vs Red Dragons Standard LE 7
G3 UR Flash Dragons vs Red Dragons Standard LE 7
G4 GW Tokens vs Red Dragons Standard LE 7
G5 BG Delirium vs Red Dragons Standard LE
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@gypsyhummus: On the play with 22 lands you have 53.9% of hitting 4-lands by turn 4 and 36.7% by turn 5... you will need either more lands or 2-3 drops, if your looking for something to cut I suggest cutting some of your pump spells - 8 pumps spells is a bit much with only 12-18 creatures (esp. if almost half those creatures are 3cc+).
@Zhakad: If possible could you use the edit button to merge those 4-post together (in most forums double posting is frowned on)?
@Kahmos: Dragon Tribal won a grinder at GP NY (though its not an aggro deck so I won't post it here).
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Nice pickup. It's unfortunate that they only published top 16 in the results decklists for that GP, as it would get a bit more exposure that way. Either way, top 32 at a GP level I think is Rx best finish so far.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
@Nevelo: it has its own deck tech article, though, which is nice. i thought Wizards is trying to erase R/x Aggro's existence from tournaments.
I don't know that WoTC wants to erase red. But they certainly want to nerf our reach, which to me kinda misses the point of the whole archetype (trade off of worse aggro creatures for reach).
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
well, we'll just have to live through Wizard's decisions. hopefully, we'll get better cards next set. a simple Lightning Strike reprint would greatly help.
I reached the opposite conclusion after playing with each for a while. Gorger was a good T1 play against slower decks and as an early surge enabler for Reckless Bushwhacker, but generally isn't something I wanted to see mid/late game. No haste and/or evasion really hurts.
Berserker sometimes gives up a point or two of damage vs. Gorger early on but he's useful at all stages of the game and helps keep the deck going in the late game if things don't go to plan.
Good idea. I'll try to grab a playset this week and sleeve it up. Green opens up Clip Wings for the SB too, which will hopefully help with Abbey wrecking my face.
I'd be interested to hear people's experiences with Regent/Roar as well. I want Roar but haven't been able to convince myself to commit to the change in my curve yet.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Agreed. Im pretty sure that there is always supposed to be a red deck in the standard format, as it is a relatively good color for budget players and brings people into events (if there wasn't a viable 20-30$ red deck, I certainly wouldn't be playing standard). Some seasons it will be a tier 1 deck, as we saw in khans block, other seasons it will be a tier two or even tier 3. Though I will say, a good pilot for a red deck could always probably have a shot at winning/going 4-0 at FNM, no matter the format. As long as there is some semblance of burn.
Now for your question: I think Skin Invasion is solid if you have decent blockers and your meta is Aristocrats heavy - that said I don't think you should be purposely killing your own cards just to flip the skin, its better used as a 2-for-1 (to force opp. creature into bad trades or as sweeper protection - though it can be dodgy if your opp. resolve a lifelinker after you set it up).
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Skin Invasion has been great for Insolent Red deck which i play in MTGO in beginner matches (yeah i just signed up for MTGO).
can't say it will be good in a meta filled with Declaration in Stone and Reflector Mage, though.
Its also much easier to sell/trade cards and boosters to go inf. (though with the token system its now harder to build a bank then it was back in the day).
- - - -
How is Insolent Red? I think the original state list is better (not by much though) it seem like it scoops to Humans, Bant Coco and GW Tokens.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
i started with the ultra budget version of Insolent Red first just to familiarize myself with MTGO (i used to play Magic Duels). i plan to buy upgrades for the deck soon.
the deck's been doing good so far. i was able to beat W/u humans, G/B Rites (? unsure of the my opponent's deck), Mono Blue Brains and a few other decks. so i am quite happy with it. so much so that i just went to the nearby LGS and bought the paper pieces i am missing. alas, there's no Skin Invasion so i'll have to look elsewhere.
what do you mean by "it scopes to Humans, Bant Coco and GW Tokens?"
Anyhow it seems to lack the reach, evasion and removals to get past a swarm, I'm not sure if you recall or not but I did play MonoR Madness very early on with SOI release (we chatted about it on the RB madness thread) the list was very similar except I didn't value Skins or Mad Vampires at the time and that was my experience.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
ah. yes, i remember that.
if the meta shifts to being more control-oriented, then mono red aggro may get a chance to shine again. that's what the Atarka Red guy at GP Tokyo counted on and he ended up top 24. so if my local meta shifts similarly, i wanna have a deck that's ready for them.
Pretty much my experience with Skin Invasion as well. The Skin/Neonate interaction is cute, but there's a lot more utility beyond that. I've been putting it on my opponents creatures a lot more often than my own.
Instead of double posting, please take the time to either edit your previous post or to merge your post (if you need help, ask me and I'll help you out). It'll save every one time and -- for the members who are subscribed to this thread -- it'll save everyone pointless notifications.
Thanks!
--Lugger
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
3 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Lightning Berserker
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
4 Thraben Inspector
1 Bygone Bishop
2 Anointer of Champions
4 Declaration in Stone
1 Gryff's Boon
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
8 Plains
2 Mountain
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Needle Spires
2 Stone Quarry
1 Westvale Abbey
3 Dragon Hunter
1 Silkwrap
2 Stasis Snare
2 Rending Volley
2 Hallowed Moonlight
3 Impact Tremors
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Previously I had two more Dragonmaster Outcast in the deck but multiples in hand were not working out. I also had a Rending Volley main deck but took it out.
4 Thopter Engineer
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Spells (31)
2 Fall of the Titans
4 Fiery Impulse
4 Magmatic Insight
4 Dragon Fodder
4 Tormenting Voice
4 Dance with Devils
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
2 Descent of the Dragons
4 Devils' Playground
4 Foundry of the Consuls
16 Mountain
2 Spawning Bed
2 Westvale Abbey
2 Rending Volley
4 Impact Tremors
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vessel of Volatility
4 Fiery Temper
Watched him copy a Devils' Playground with Goggles, then do it again next turn.
His decklist is here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102798
20 Mountain
3 Drownyard Temple
1 Foundry of the Consuls
2 Westvale Abbey
Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Spells
4 Impact Tremors
4 Dance with Devils
2 Fall of the Titans
2 Fiery Impulse
3 Fiery Temper
3 Lightning Axe
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
2 Devils' Playground
4 Dragon Fodder
2 Magmatic Insight
3 Tormenting Voice
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Sin Prodder
2 Fiery Impulse
2 Rending Volley
2 Twin Bolt
1 Exquisite Firecraft
1 Roast
1 Structural Distortion
Aggro deck is a Magic: The Gathering term for an agressive deck which attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing. Usually these decks will use small, hard-hitting creatures to win the game. - Aggro deck - MTG Salvation Wiki
Devil goggles really shouldn't be post here (I actually think a thread on it would be quite popular here on MTGS much like Brain in the Shore).
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
At least, that's my opinion...
As this deck moves forward my thought on Nahari, the Harbinger was to use Stern Constable in place of the the Thraben Inspector. Tap their creature with the Constable and exile it with Nahiri. Perhaps I want to do too much and I should make her the other Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. The deck can be explosive on the aggro side and can move into a longer game. I beat Esper Control last night 2-0, game one was quick, but game two I had a slow start and had to kill Narset, Ob Nixilus, Jace, and Sorin before I could get him dead. Depending on board state and the right cards drawn you can flip Kytheon as soon as turn 3 with a Reckless Bushwacker. The Bushwacker and Lightning Berserker are MVP's in this deck. Dashing the Lightning Berserker to build up Thalia's Lieutenant or get Clues from Bygone Bishop is sweet (and helped my beat Esper Control game 2).
I see idea behind the deck - your throwing away consistency in favour for more outs vs Control (which I think is a decent idea).
Here is what I think:
1) Play 3-4x Gryff's Boon MD its decent vs everything and is pretty much the ONLY way you stand a chance vs Aristocrats, GW Tokens and the Mirror.
2) Your running 4-Drops with only 21 lands (which gives you just over 49% chance of hitting 4-lands on curve) so you should run 4x Knight of the White Orchid.
3) Nahiri, the Harbinger doesn't seem great.
EDIT: You should continue to ask for advice on the Wx thread - but if that doesn't help you can PM me and I'll try my best.
@JonInWherever: My main issues with including builds with massive numbers of 5-6 drops (which are midrange/control/ramp) is the question of where does it stop? If we accept devil goggle should we also talk about MonoR Eldrazi, RU Goggle, RU Flash Dragons, Rx Ramp, Jund, BR Control/midrange, RW Goggles and all the other list which happen to play red?
I think it could become really messy...
EDIT: I'm aware of the hypocrisy of my post considering I'm talking about a Wr deck ;).
- - - -
I've been testing 4x Dragon Whisperer and I can say I've been really impressed.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here