Lands:
The lands shown in the sample list are what most lists should use, with some potential *small* tweaks for preference. One thing to note is that if you wish to go a more token based route with Floorboards/Secure, then a singleton (not more, we need the colored mana too much) Westvale Abbey//Ormendahl, Profane Prince has the potential to be good.
Sheltered Aerie: Strictly worse than wood. Run 0. Weirding Wood: Ramps you, fixes mana, and draws a card at some point down the line. Run 3-4. Oath of Nissa: Digs for a threat or another land, fixes your mana, only costs 1, and multiples enable delirium easily. Run 4. Oath of Gideon: Helps you stall for a turn vs aggro, gives you a couple of creatures to protect your walkers. The added loyalty counter makes all of your walkers much, much more threatening. Run 1-3. Oath of Chandra: Some nice early removal, and the 2 damage ability will deal alot (8-12) of damage if the game goes long. Run 1-2 main and 1-2 SB depending on how much you see small creatures.
::These are what make the four colors so achievable. They also make turning on delirium much easier::
Nissa, Vastwood Seer//Nissa, Sage Animist: She ensures you hit your land drops, can chump, and flips into a reasonable threat in the lategame. Run 1-2. Dragonlord Atarka: A massive threat, especially punishing with an Arlinn +1. However, she's also 7 mana and usually won't come down in time to save you vs aggro. Run 0-1. Archangel Avacyn//Avacyn, the Purifier: Excellent at both attacking and blocking, she also stonewalls most aggro decks and will generally act as a removal spell the turn you cast her. Run 0-1. Linvala, the Preserver: The best card for stabilizing at low life (other than perhaps Sorin or Chandra), she is also a reasonable threat without the triggers. Run 0-1. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet: Beats the creap out of relentless dead, and running him into boardwipe vs aggro wins on the spot. Run 0-1. Goblin Dark-Dwellers: Rebuying 2 spells (after you recast next turn) and getting in for 4 damage is great. However, GDD doesn't have the "I win now" potential of the others, and has a horrible interaction with truths and RadFlames. Run 0-1 if you go more spell based.
::You don't want too many, as OON does not fix for these. However, having something you can actually hit with Nahiri is nice, and they all win the game if left unchecked::
Arlinn Kord//Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon: If you have a threat (creature or manland if lategame) on board, her unflipped +1 will end games very fast. On the flip side (hah), if you go the token heavy route, her 2nd +1 is brutal. If neither fits the bill, she's rather clunky, and has one of the harder requirements without wood/oath. Run 0-2. Nahiri, The Harbinger: Good on both an empty board and one where your opponent has creatures (though the enchant/artifact removal MD occasionally gets used). Some decks will just ignore her, believing you have no creatures (yes, this does happen, but don't expect it vs very good players). Run 1-2. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: Provides an endless stream of blockers, and both the emblem (esp with needle spires) and his 5/5 body are excellent at closing games quickly. Run 2-4 depending on token synergies and aggressiveness. Ob Nixilis, Reignited: Removal and Pyrexian Arena all together in a nice package, with a very brutal ultimate. 5 mana and double black can be though without Oath or Wood though. Run 1-3. Sorin, Grim Nemesis: Yes, the art is atrocious. No, the body is not. One of the best ways to stabilize, his +1 will also close games quite quickly. However, 6 mana is alot. Run 1-2. Chandra, Flamecaller: Boardwipe, a +1 that wins in 2-3 turns, and if you really need something, the 0 will find it for you. Again, 6 mana is alot (but landing her often forces a concession on the spot, so....). Run 3-4. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: Her +1 gives chumps galore, but Nissa really wants a go-wide strategy (or at least some good creatures) to use her well. Run 0-1 if you have lots of tokens.
::The bread and butter of the deck, and the whole reason to be in four colors::
Behold the Beyond: This card is nuts. If you get to untap, you usually win about on the spot. Only run 1 however because A) it's expensive, and B) multiples are really, really bad. Anguished Unmaking: Kills everything but manlands. The lifeloss hurts, especially since we don't usually do a whole lot of blocking early game. Run 2-4. Ruinous Path: Hits creatures, walkers, is generally painless. The awaken is a very real aspect of the card, which you should be aware of. Run 1-3. Declaration in Stone: Great vs token strategies, kills Ulamog, stops stupid GY shenanigans. Letting them draw does hurt, though. Run 1-3. To the Slaughter: Good where you expect hexproof, walkers, and indestructible. Mediocre elsewhere. Run 1 main if you see the mirror, esper, or ramp alot. Run 1-2 SB depending on meta. Grasp of Darkness: Hitting double black early in the game, where this shines, is rare. Run 0. Fiery Impulse: We really don't care all that much about the creatures this will kill. If you find yourself wanting to use impulse, flames will be better almost all of the time. Run 0. Duress: Strips removal, Walkers, disruption, and ramp. Also lets you know what to play around. Run 0-4 main and 0-4 side. Transgress the Mind: Can't hit cheap stuff, but hits all the relevant threats duress can, and more (the exile is a nice bonus). Costing 2 sucks, but is workable. Run 0-4 Main and 0-4 Side. Secure the Wastes: Generates alot of tokens, works well with Gideon emblem and a flipped Arlinn +1. Run 0-3 depending on preference (though this will impact the effectiveness of your sweepers). From Under the Floorboards: We can occasionally get madness off of a Nahiri +1, but that will be rare. The front end is quite good though, and works well with the same things as STW. Lifegain is also great. Run 0-3 depending on preference. Painful Truths: 3 cards is great, but there will be plenty of times where you end up paying 4+ life for this (painlands). In addition, we would really like to hit certain things at certain times, so RTB will often be a better option. Run 0-2 depending on preference, 0-1 in SB. Read the Bones: The life loss isn't irrelevant, but 2 life is much better than 3-4, esp when combined with Unmaking. The scry is excellent too. Run 0-2 main, 0-1 SB.
*Note: try to avoid running Truths and RTB in the same deck.
::Support cards, mostly removal of some sort::
Radiant Flames: Good vs Aggro. Kozilek's Return: Similar to Tendrils, but doesn't exile (though instant speed is nice). Only run this if you don't need exile but use GDD. Flaying Tendrils: Generally worse than Flames vs aggro, and early BB is tough. Only use this if the exile effect is needed for several decks. Languish: Good vs Aggro, decent vs Midrangey decks. Tragic Arrogance: Mainly good in the mirror match. Run 0, but could upgrade if the mirror becomes popular. Descend Upon the Sinful: 6 is alot, but this handles everything and will usually net you a 4/4 angel to boot.
*Note: Chandra also counts as a sweeper, but not a dedicated one. For every 2 copies MD, you can add 1 to your sweeper count.
::In general, you should have at least 2-3 MD and several in the board (or flip-flopped), but how many and which ones are a meta call::
General Tips
Wierding Wood gives the land an extra ability, not give you mana whenever the land is tapped (like most do). This means that throwing it on a copy of Wilds or a Painland is often correct.
As with Ugin vs Silumgar, sometimes you will want to -x sorin on something to avoid the opponent being able play a theft effect and 3for1 you. (Kill 2 of your walkers and land a threat).
Before you tap your mana, if you are going to draw things, either draw first or think about what you can draw that you can cast in that situation (or manland activations). If you don't, getting shut off a color of mana can (and will) kill you.
Behold the Beyond
This is such a unique card, it deserves its own section. In general, the situations you should cast it are: Your hand is terrible (ie full of lands/dead cards), you know (or suspect very highly) your opponent will play a very large threat you don't have an answer for in hand, or you are in (or very close to) topdeck mode. If you cast Behold because of the threat, you should obviously get something to answer said item. Outside of that, these are your general piles:
This group is for when the board is about even or you are slightly ahead. Chandra, Flamecaller: Our premier closer. Descend upon the Sinful: In case they start to make a comeback, or to clear the board for your guys to get in.
*Note: this can be a less powerful spell, like Path or Descend, if you don't want to either hold up 6 mana or you don't think it will be relevant Sorin, Grim Nemesis or Ob Nixilis Reignited: Both give you some nice removal options.
This is for when you are either very far ahead or very far behind. Descend Upon the Sinful: Either ensures creatures don't show up or removes the ones that are threatening. Transgress the Mind: Gets some nasty cards out of the opponent's hand. Ruinous Path: This could be an unmaking if the life loss wasn't relevant or you needed to hit something like Starfield of Nyx
Use this for example if you know your opponent can play an couple Ulamogs in 2 or so turns and you need to kill them beforehand. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar Arlinn Kord Chandra, Flamecaller
The correct way to sequence here is:
Gideon, 0. Arlinn, 0. Next turn play Chandra, +1 her and Gideon, then +1 Kord. (21 trample damage)
Matchups
Will be updated as the meta is figured out.
BR Vamps: 70/30. A sweeper or one of our creatures is very good there, but they are incredibly fast, and many lists will play copies of Voice/Waltz. Theyre also the only list with actual burn.
In: Languish, Radiant Flames, 1-2 mana removal, Kalitas, Linvala
Out: 1-2 Unmaking, 1 Arlinn or Gideon, expensive non-walkers
Bant Company: 60/40. If you draw a sweeper, you will almost always win. If not, whether or not you do will depend on how many companies they get and what said companies hit (also Avacyn. She's annoying unless languish/descend are your sweepers of choice).
In: Sweepers, Cheap Removal, Hand Disruption, Linvala
Out: Durdly cards (behold, seasons past, etc), arlinn, random others
R/G Ramp: 55/45 to 60/40. We are favored, but not by much. The key to winning here is to get out either Gideon or Chandra (or your creature of choice) and beat down. In general this will come down to a topdeck war, while our spells are on average better, they have a higher ceiling.
In: Hand Disruption
Out: Cheap removal
Wx Humans: 70/30 to 50/50. Land a sweeper, and you will just about always win. They are significantly faster than us, however, so don't keep hands with no plays that impact the board (or discard) before t4.
In: Languish, RadFlames, Cheap Removal, Kalitas/Linvala
Out: 1 Unmaking, Durdly stuff, other life loss cards.
Grixis: 65/35 to 70/40. They have very little effective removal here, though several MD ruinous paths are annoying.
In: Seasons Past, draw, slower items
Out: RadFlames/Cheap removal
BWr: 60/40. Better finishers and Anguished Unmaking make this a bit worse than grixis, but on the whole follow the same pattern.
In: Seasons Past, draw, slower items
Out: Cheap removal/RadFlames
Rites (w/combo): 60/40. This would be higher, but the combo is an actual threat (plus westvale abbey can very much hurt).
In: Sweepers
Out: Whatever you can find. This will depend mostly on the individual list.
Rites (w/o combo): 70/30. The same vulnerability to languish, not an especially fast clock.
In: Sweepers
Out: see above. Arlinn is a good candidate here.
BG Petition: 65/35. We are much grindier than they are. In order to win, BG has to establish the loop with relevant removal and not just be dead to random topdecks. That said, running into The Great Aurora is not fun.
In: Seasons Past, Disruption, Draw
Out: most removal (leave in unmaking, path, and a decstone).
GW tokens: 60/40. They don't really have a nut draw that can beat us very well (though something like inspector>HBW>Nissa>Gideon>Avacyn wouldn't be bad at all), and they lose hard to both Languish and Chandra.
In: Sweepers, Removal, disruption
Out: Arlinn, others as needed.
Sideboard Guide
(note: this only covers the cards not mentioned in the maindeck section) Self-Inflicted Wound: Nice against Bant, Esper, and random G/W decks. Run 1-2. Surge of Righteousness: Good vs r/b aggro. Run 1-2. Roast: Decent if something like anafenza or rhino come back, but we have better removal and it missing fliers is very relevant. Run 0. Lightning Axe: We can't afford losing a card. Run 0. Infinite Obliteration: Stripping your opponents biggest threat and seeing their hand is great. It is awkward if you whiff though, and you only get rid of 1 of their threats. Exile is great though. Run 0-2. Pick the Brain: This card sucks. You will rarely have delirium to enable this early, and their threat won't always even be in their hand. Run 0. Display of Dominance: Hits things like tutelage, pact, and ob nixilis. It is also okay to board in vs non-white removal heavy decks. Run 0-1. Naturalize: Relevant hits include: goggles, tutelage, pact, oath cycle. Run 0-2. Natural State: The 1 mana cost can be relevant in the first few turns, but usually naturalize is better. Run 0-1 if not using naturalize. Clip Wings: Kills the Dragonlords, Avacyn, random fliers, and Ormendahl. Meta dependent, but very good when you would want it. Run 0-2. Weaknesses
The list of cards you do not want to see across the table looks like:
Duress/Transgress, other hand disruption. >> These are very not-fun to play against, but they aren't the end of the world. Losing your only threat sucks, though.
Negate/Other counterspells >> Negate is the worst, as it is cheap and hits just about every one of your non-land cards. The good thing is that landing a walker gets you off to a nice advantage and makes it easier to get others.
Removal that can actually hit walkers >> There isn't alot of this (mostly sac effects on gideon, path, slaughter, and unmaking), but what there is hurts.
Manlands >> The list of removal we have that can actually one is limited to To the Slaugher. The best way to fight back is either having a manland of your own out, a gideon (yay for chumps), or drawing your one creature.
Dragonlord Silumgar >> Stealing one of your walkers (esp chandra, sorin, or an ultable gideon) sucks. Alot.
Tragic Arrogance >> The only "board wipe" that can hit walkers, it will do an excellent job at dropping our board down to a state that is much less unfavorable to us.
Came in 2nd in an 8man earlier.
R1>2-0 vs Jund Company.
g1 a pair of chandras cleaned up with some sorin backup. g2 chandra, radflames, and sorin stabilized me at 1 life, and gideon won from there.
R2>2-1 vs Esper Dragons
g1 I got stuck on 2 lands and conceded turn 4, g2 chandra beats down and transgress takes OJT. g3 he actually kept in OJ commands (despite seeing no creatures), and brought in plague. eventually I killed plague with nahiri and got an ob to ult status (mostly we were staring at an empty board all game), he stole w/silumgar+ulted on me. descend+chandra took him out and I won 2 turns later at 3 life
R3> 0-2 vs Bant Company
g1 I got shut off red with double chandras in hand (1st time I've been shut off a color, ever). g2 radflames stalled for a couple turns with avacyn/linvala, but he played 4 companies in 2 turns.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
How do people feel about Behold the Beyond in these lists? It seems like this list would have less of a disadvantadge than most because we don't fully take our turns off due to having planeswalkers. A typical pile would probably look like: Chandra, Sorin, ultility spell.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I don't think you need Behold the Beyond... ...if you survive until turn 7, you should be fine or one of your planeswalker should already do crazy stuff. It would be to late to search for a solution.
Here's what my testing has said: if you cast Behold and get to untap next turn, you pretty much win. However, as I mentioned, it is expensive and the discard is (sometimes) a real cost. Behold is probably one of the most win-more cards ever. It also decides topdeck wars. Overall, I would say if you have a spare slot, you could do alot worse than throwing a singleton in, but it's not worth going to extra trouble to throw in.
How good is your mana for 4 colors? I am thinking about a 4c superfriends deck too, but I'd prefer blue over red, since I like Narset, Transcendant and Oath of Jace should be really good here. Or we can do 5 color because of "we be fancy" and Sarkhan Unbroken had so little love.
I am a bit skeptical about cutting red, as chandra is probably the best walker overall, and her and arlinn are very good at closing out games. Narset is really nice as well, esp since over 1/2 of our deck hits on her, I just don't see cutting the premier win-cons and anti-aggro cards out is a good idea. A 5c deck would be interesting, with a small splash for sarkhan and narset probably being quite doable (even with only a couple of blue lands), as OON and wood do such a good job of manafixing. I'm just not really sure what to cut for them, though I will definitely look into it.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
@GH0UL
I have done some testing, here is what I have found:
Sarkhan is really, really, good.
Narset is meh. Sure, the +1 is nice, but we have alot of card draw already, and she doesn't always hit. The -2 is okay, but we don't really want to spend our time casting sorcery speed I/S. Her ult is devastating against some decks, but it A) is an ult, and B) isn't good enough to make up for the 1st 2.
OOJ is difficult to cast. I think it would be rather powerful if you could reliably get it out on t3, but the way I built it there were not alot of blue sources to do so. If you wanted to drop a color for blue, you are probably best dropping Ob for Jace, sorin for more chandra/sarkhan, and playing more sweepers MD.
On a different note, after seeing several new decks show up (not-garbage gw midrange, more streamlined vamps decks, and W/x token lists (usually with Ormendahl)), adding Languish is becoming a better and better option as it is cheap enough to cast in aggro and not be embarassing, while able to kill premier threats like Avacyn and Thunderbreak.
@unkai
that depends on the build. the lower to the ground the weenie build goes, the better we get. in general, resolving a sweeper with a walker in hand or on the BF wins the game on the spot. the worst i've seen against either are the builds that end up curving always watching into big threats (esp on the play) when we have a slow hand without much interaction. in general, aggroish decks are a great MU post-board (lots of sweepers and removal), and good preboard (removal+gideon is good. who knew?).
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
For those asking about the viability of a 4C deck, think about this: Once you get Oath of Nissa out, it doesn't matter what lands you have to play your walkers. You can tap any of them to pay their manna cost. I played a 3C walker deck last night at FNM and it played VERY well.
Here is a color summary for the manabase used in the decklist:
*Note: I am counting Weirding Wood as 4 sources of each non-green color and 2 sources of green (as it needs green mana to start with, but gives 2 mana of that color once out). Also, if one wanted to substitute an island for one of the mountains (perhaps to splash for Sarkhan Unbroken), that would give you 9 blue sources, plus OON.
With only the lands, we end up with:
10 green sources, 13 white sources, 12 black sources, and 10 red sources
After adding Wierding Wood, we get: 12 green sources, 17 white sources, 16 black sources, and 14 red sources
OON is a tricky one to factor in, because it gives (sort of) infinite sources of each color, but only if you a) have green mana, and b) it is in your hand. Assuming we are on the play, never mulligan, prioritize oath+green mana before any other plays, and don't take into account whether the land is tapped (these 2 would only decrease the margin of us having one out on t5 by a few percentage points), we can determine that the odds of you getting an Oath out are: Turn-----Have Oath-----Have Green Mana-----Able to play Oath
1--------------40%-----------------74%----------------------30%
2--------------45%-----------------79%----------------------36%
3--------------49%-----------------83%----------------------41%
4--------------53%-----------------86%----------------------46%
5--------------57%-----------------89%----------------------50%
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
So I've been doing some more testing. Languish has had its stock go up due to the prevalence of avacyn and other humans decks. Tragic arrogance is also good against those lists, though you are usually better off staying away due to wanting to keep walkers around
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I don't have a ton to add here, although I've done a fair bit of testing against the U/R Goggles deck in the last couple of days with great success. I feel as though U/W control would be a rough match-up however.
Control is an okay matchup. Once you land a walker, the list of cards you lose to is generally restricted to DL Silumgar or OJT. Your strategy from what I've seen should be to bring in draw, bring out things like OOG and OOC, Declaration etc (path is good vs flipped jace though). To the slaughter is also very nice at killing Ojutai. Your early turns should be setup (discard+draw), then you just want to jam as many walkers as you can until they run out of counterspells or one resolves (at that point, your chances of winning go way up). Goggles is an interesting deck, I haven't lost to it in my testing but I haven't done a ton vs them either.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
In my local meta surge really had no place in the board, Clip is an obvious answer to the U/W or Esper Dragons Match-up (local meta), and as you mentioned with the white weenie hordes Languish puts in serious work.
Match 1 - UR Rise from the Tides Brew
He was running Brain in a Jar to try and pop that out instant speed at end step. After I caught the rise in his hand from a transgress I had a pretty good idea of what he was up to, so unmakinged the brain for an easy game 1 win. Game two, he never got a chance to drop the brain and went full on with getting as much into his yard for a 13 zombie rise, I topdecked Declaration in Stone and that was game. He's putting in Impact Tremors for his next go around, was a really fun match-up and a really neat brew.
Match 2 - GB Delirium
Game 1 he rolled in a Mindwrack into Mindwrack into Mindwrack into a traverse for another Mindwrack, couldn't keep up with life loss at that point. Boarded in a lot of my removal for game 2, kept his board empty the entire game and +1 on Sorin with Gideon on the field carried the game. Game 3 was very similar, he just didn't have answers for the planeswalkers and ended up dying to a +1 Sorin into Sorin number 2.
Match 3 - White Weenie
Game 1 he flooded out and just could not establish a board state and scooped it up after his 4th land draw in a row. Game two was a different story, a few early threats and an Always Watching had me in down to 4 by turn 4, I lucked into a Languish in my opening hand and the land to cast. After my Languish he refilled his board the next turn, not realizing I had Radiant Flames in hand. After the second sweep he was hellbent and a +1 Arlinn on Shambling Vent carried me to victory.
Match 4 - RB Vampire Madness
Younger kid, was 11 o clock, about 3 turns in he had to scoop and leave. No clue what was in his hand but I had a decent draw and was set for a turn 4 Gideon, 5 Ob, 6 Chandra play.
I gotta say I am loving the deck overall, and it's really throwing people off a lot just by virtue of the amount of planeswalkers being played. No one so far at my local meta has come up with a response, and in play-testing it just tears through the common stuff out there. I'm considering Kozilek's Return somewhere as I feel that may be the best Secure or CoCo response. I almost want to jam a Sarkhan Unbroken into the deck as I think it could be amusing, but not sure what to remove or even if it's a good idea.
@arglebargles
--the problem with return against coco is that most of their hits have 3+ toughness, but it does work wonders against secure lol.
--Sarkhan is very good, I've had the same problems with what to cut as well. Aside from that, there aren't any blue walkers that are good enough (narset is just meh overall, and jace is a worse ob nixilis).
--Sooner or later someone might bring in a tragic arrogance, as that is very good at setting the boardstate back to a more even playing field. It also stops our more broken draws (the gideon into ob into chandra etc ones).
--Also, clip is also a very nice answer to Ormendahl
Went 4-0 in a tournament earlier.
Match 1 (2-0 vs Jeskai Something):
He had a couple counterspells and TITI both games, but Chandra killed him to fast for me to really figure out the rest of his deck.
Match 2 (2-1 vs BWc Midrange):
G1 I ended up with only 1 black mana and couldn't cast the pair of Obs that would have saved me (or at least slowed the clock by several turns). G2 we went back and forth until I topdecked Behold the Beyond and snowballed from there. Game 3 I flooded and he had 3 copies of Avacyn to deal with my pair of Sorins. In the end Chandra and Ob just raced him though.
Match 3 (2-0 vs RB Vampires):
G1 he gets me to 2 life before a topdeck Descend wipes him, and he never recovers. G2 Languish, Surge, and Sorin easily put the game out of reach.
Match 3 (RW Eldrazi):
This was by far the toughest MU of the night. G1 Transgress took his Smasher then Gideon+Spires clocked him to 4 where his Pia was met with a Descend Upon the Sinful and Gid swung for lethal. G2 Transgress stole a TKS, Chandra wiped away the tokens for his Abbey (I had to wipe him 3 more times in the game) before he was stuck with a pair of manlands to my 3 walkers.
Overall the deck is performing wonderfully, but if I keep seeing these sorts of lists I'm going to drop some stuff so I can add Clip Wings to the sideboard.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I've thought about it, but we can almost always cast our removal (1/2 of it is in the form of walkers anyways), there isn't really alot we can cut, and most of our i/s are at the 3drop slot so we don't really get any advantage out of the cost reduction.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
The 2 mana spells are mostly meta-based. Mine has more midrangey lists, so transgress is usually better against what I see. DecStone is certainly something I could see more of, but it doesn't do enough against what I see (the sorcery speed is a real ding). If your meta is different, by all means go ahead.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
So I proxied the list up, and tested a couple games with it:
First of all, this list is amazingly fun. Very good job on that. It does feel quite strong as well.
Couple of thoughts:
1) Sarkhan is not worth it. I have yet to come in a situation where I would not prefer new Jace over him. His -2 just gives them a target for their removal they don't feel bad about, and his +1 ramp never mattered. New Jace on the other hand does more for this deck (expecially since Ob occasionally comes at a point where plusing him puts you in burn range.)
2) Mana seems very solid - even with 1-2 blue walkers in, I never had any trouble casting the walkers.
3) The only card that I was frequently unhappy to see was Transgress the Mind. It whiffed occasionally, and very rarely hit anything I cared about. I can see why it'd be important in the ramp matchup, but it feels as though it should be more of a SB card. On the other hand, oath of chandra and decleration in stone do enough to warrant more then one MD imho.
Would you mind posting any changes you made to accommodate the blue 'walkers? I'm also thinking about using Jace if the mana supports him. Thanks!
@Lithuasil-> Thanks for the notes! Def going to test both with and w/o Jace. Just need a handful of cards to get the core put together as well for FNM. Looking forward to this one.
The deck plays a lot like Tron in Modern if you've ever played that deck. You spend your early turns digging for good stuff with Oath of Nissa, Nissa herself (since she replaces herself with a land) and wiping the board of early plays with Radiant Flames.
Around turn 4, the deck really turns on with Nahiri, typically coming down and exiling a creature, giving you immediate card advantage since she's now likely a 2-for-1. Every turn after that you can keep rolling out game-ending cards that also trade and generate card advantage. Avacyn offers free blocks and often eats a creature when she does, Planar Outburst can clear an entire board and also double as a wincon if the awaken effect is used, Ob Nixilis effectively reads - "Destroy Target creature, then start drawing free cards if your opponent doesn't stop you" Sorin largely does the same except he damages your opponent sometimes while drawing those free cards, Chandra offers board wipes 8-11 along with being a fairly large threat to end the game on her own, and 11 manlands let us turn mana-heavy hands into creatures as desired.
The sideboard needs help, but isn't a huge concern as the parade of planeswalkers can win most games regardless of what the opponent is doing.
The worst MU I've noticed is UR Goggles, which is why I have the Transgress the Minds and I probably need to include Reclaiming Vines as the most relevant cards our opponent plays in that MU are Fevered Visions and Goggles, they really can't keep up without at least 1 of those in play. I think it's important to mention that this deck is positive vs both white weenies and bant company, the 2 decks that are making up 90% of relevant tournament results currently.
Feel free to adjust the SB as desired, but the MD is pretty tuned already. Give it a run on XMage or proxy it out and let me know what you guys think.
Because I run such a walker-dense deck (19 in total) I don't think my list is capable of consistently going under... well... anyone.
I haven't faced UR Goggles since I reworked my SB to account for them, but by far the biggest issue was with goggles enabling multiplicative value on their cards and Visions nuking my walkers at the end of every turn. I simply couldn't get out from under them and figured the best way to address both of those effects would be 1) snagging them out of my opponents hand with Transgress and 2) putting more ways to remove enchants and artifacts directly in the SB. I haven't had much time to test this week though so let me tinker with the SB a bit more and I will come up with something else.
I seriously think something akin to my list is secretly the best deck in Standard right now. I don't feel lost against any deck I play against. The two biggest issues with the deck are the cost ($600 for a standard deck is ridiculous) and my personal lack of experience when it comes to performing major tuning to a sideboard. I am well-accustomed with adjusting individual cards to keep up with meta changes from week to week, but I am feeling pretty lost in general right now as the meta is still new and I'm still trying to figure out what I do and do not need to adjust for.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see someone with a 4c walker list at the pro tour this coming weekend though.
So I've spent a good chunk of today testing vs the PT decks and here is what I found out:
Languish is really, really good. It matches up very well against just about every deck that did anything today (excepting blue and ramp decks). Radflames is similar, but it does lose to avacyn and kytheon (plus 4 is alot easier to get to than 5).
There is not a single bad MU that showed up today. However, with this in mind I think it makes sense to go up to 3 and 2 Languish/Flames across the board. It also seems prudent to drop at least one copy of surge of righteousness, as I can count on one hand the number of times I've cast it on a non-manland creature.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Hi, are you guys still playing this deck? Is green necessary? Or can you get away with three color and go mardu BRW?
I'm still running it. The main reasons for green are this: Ponder, Ramp, Nissa, and Arlinn. Oath of Nissa and Wierding Wood do alot to both help you accelerate out walkers and to find threats. Nissa is just all around great, ensures we hit land drops, and lets Nahiri fetch up a walker. Arlinn applies excellent pressure and usually will at least trade, if not get 2 creatures with her bolt ability. Lastly, Seasons past. That card is absolutely backbreaking in our lists as we have cards all across the curve. Usually it ends up being a draw 5, but I've seen a few draw 6 and draw 4's off of it too. You could just play mardu (perhaps adding in things like HBW and dragonmaster), but the green splash is generally more consistent, plus its more spicy and enjoyable than running only 3 colors (the feeling when you beat people after they trash your manabase is also great).
[Note]--Major update planned for primer with details on all the PT decks and how to beat them. Will likely be up by the end of the week.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
4C Planeswalkers
--==The King of Midrange==--
Decklist
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Archangel Avacyn
Instants
3 Anguished Unmaking
Sorceries
2 Read the Bones
1 Ruinous Path
1 Declaration in Stone
3 Transgress the Mind
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
Enchantments
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Wierding Wood
2 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Chandra
Planeswalkers
1 Arlinn Kord
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Canopy Vista
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Hissing Quagmire
2 Shambling Vent
2 Needle Spires
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Linvala, the Preserver
2 Rending Volley
1 Read the Bones
1 To the Slaughter
1 Clip Wings
1 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Languish
1 Radiant Flames
1 Surge of Righteousness
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Descend upon the Sinful
2 Oath of Chandra
Card Choices
Lands:
The lands shown in the sample list are what most lists should use, with some potential *small* tweaks for preference. One thing to note is that if you wish to go a more token based route with Floorboards/Secure, then a singleton (not more, we need the colored mana too much) Westvale Abbey//Ormendahl, Profane Prince has the potential to be good.
Sheltered Aerie: Strictly worse than wood. Run 0.Weirding Wood: Ramps you, fixes mana, and draws a card at some point down the line. Run 3-4.
Oath of Nissa: Digs for a threat or another land, fixes your mana, only costs 1, and multiples enable delirium easily. Run 4.
Oath of Gideon: Helps you stall for a turn vs aggro, gives you a couple of creatures to protect your walkers. The added loyalty counter makes all of your walkers much, much more threatening. Run 1-3.
Oath of Chandra: Some nice early removal, and the 2 damage ability will deal alot (8-12) of damage if the game goes long. Run 1-2 main and 1-2 SB depending on how much you see small creatures.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer//Nissa, Sage Animist: She ensures you hit your land drops, can chump, and flips into a reasonable threat in the lategame. Run 1-2.
Dragonlord Atarka: A massive threat, especially punishing with an Arlinn +1. However, she's also 7 mana and usually won't come down in time to save you vs aggro. Run 0-1.
Archangel Avacyn//Avacyn, the Purifier: Excellent at both attacking and blocking, she also stonewalls most aggro decks and will generally act as a removal spell the turn you cast her. Run 0-1.
Linvala, the Preserver: The best card for stabilizing at low life (other than perhaps Sorin or Chandra), she is also a reasonable threat without the triggers. Run 0-1.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet: Beats the creap out of relentless dead, and running him into boardwipe vs aggro wins on the spot. Run 0-1.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers: Rebuying 2 spells (after you recast next turn) and getting in for 4 damage is great. However, GDD doesn't have the "I win now" potential of the others, and has a horrible interaction with truths and RadFlames. Run 0-1 if you go more spell based.
Arlinn Kord//Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon: If you have a threat (creature or manland if lategame) on board, her unflipped +1 will end games very fast. On the flip side (hah), if you go the token heavy route, her 2nd +1 is brutal. If neither fits the bill, she's rather clunky, and has one of the harder requirements without wood/oath. Run 0-2.
Nahiri, The Harbinger: Good on both an empty board and one where your opponent has creatures (though the enchant/artifact removal MD occasionally gets used). Some decks will just ignore her, believing you have no creatures (yes, this does happen, but don't expect it vs very good players). Run 1-2.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: Provides an endless stream of blockers, and both the emblem (esp with needle spires) and his 5/5 body are excellent at closing games quickly. Run 2-4 depending on token synergies and aggressiveness.
Ob Nixilis, Reignited: Removal and Pyrexian Arena all together in a nice package, with a very brutal ultimate. 5 mana and double black can be though without Oath or Wood though. Run 1-3.
Sorin, Grim Nemesis: Yes, the art is atrocious. No, the body is not. One of the best ways to stabilize, his +1 will also close games quite quickly. However, 6 mana is alot. Run 1-2.
Chandra, Flamecaller: Boardwipe, a +1 that wins in 2-3 turns, and if you really need something, the 0 will find it for you. Again, 6 mana is alot (but landing her often forces a concession on the spot, so....). Run 3-4.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: Her +1 gives chumps galore, but Nissa really wants a go-wide strategy (or at least some good creatures) to use her well. Run 0-1 if you have lots of tokens.
Behold the Beyond: This card is nuts. If you get to untap, you usually win about on the spot. Only run 1 however because A) it's expensive, and B) multiples are really, really bad.
Anguished Unmaking: Kills everything but manlands. The lifeloss hurts, especially since we don't usually do a whole lot of blocking early game. Run 2-4.
Ruinous Path: Hits creatures, walkers, is generally painless. The awaken is a very real aspect of the card, which you should be aware of. Run 1-3.
Declaration in Stone: Great vs token strategies, kills Ulamog, stops stupid GY shenanigans. Letting them draw does hurt, though. Run 1-3.
To the Slaughter: Good where you expect hexproof, walkers, and indestructible. Mediocre elsewhere. Run 1 main if you see the mirror, esper, or ramp alot. Run 1-2 SB depending on meta.
Grasp of Darkness: Hitting double black early in the game, where this shines, is rare. Run 0.
Fiery Impulse: We really don't care all that much about the creatures this will kill. If you find yourself wanting to use impulse, flames will be better almost all of the time. Run 0.
Duress: Strips removal, Walkers, disruption, and ramp. Also lets you know what to play around. Run 0-4 main and 0-4 side.
Transgress the Mind: Can't hit cheap stuff, but hits all the relevant threats duress can, and more (the exile is a nice bonus). Costing 2 sucks, but is workable. Run 0-4 Main and 0-4 Side.
Secure the Wastes: Generates alot of tokens, works well with Gideon emblem and a flipped Arlinn +1. Run 0-3 depending on preference (though this will impact the effectiveness of your sweepers).
From Under the Floorboards: We can occasionally get madness off of a Nahiri +1, but that will be rare. The front end is quite good though, and works well with the same things as STW. Lifegain is also great. Run 0-3 depending on preference.
Painful Truths: 3 cards is great, but there will be plenty of times where you end up paying 4+ life for this (painlands). In addition, we would really like to hit certain things at certain times, so RTB will often be a better option. Run 0-2 depending on preference, 0-1 in SB.
Read the Bones: The life loss isn't irrelevant, but 2 life is much better than 3-4, esp when combined with Unmaking. The scry is excellent too. Run 0-2 main, 0-1 SB.
*Note: try to avoid running Truths and RTB in the same deck.
Radiant Flames: Good vs Aggro.
Kozilek's Return: Similar to Tendrils, but doesn't exile (though instant speed is nice). Only run this if you don't need exile but use GDD.
Flaying Tendrils: Generally worse than Flames vs aggro, and early BB is tough. Only use this if the exile effect is needed for several decks.
Languish: Good vs Aggro, decent vs Midrangey decks.
Tragic Arrogance: Mainly good in the mirror match. Run 0, but could upgrade if the mirror becomes popular.
Descend Upon the Sinful: 6 is alot, but this handles everything and will usually net you a 4/4 angel to boot.
*Note: Chandra also counts as a sweeper, but not a dedicated one. For every 2 copies MD, you can add 1 to your sweeper count.
General Tips
Wierding Wood gives the land an extra ability, not give you mana whenever the land is tapped (like most do). This means that throwing it on a copy of Wilds or a Painland is often correct.
As with Ugin vs Silumgar, sometimes you will want to -x sorin on something to avoid the opponent being able play a theft effect and 3for1 you. (Kill 2 of your walkers and land a threat).
Before you tap your mana, if you are going to draw things, either draw first or think about what you can draw that you can cast in that situation (or manland activations). If you don't, getting shut off a color of mana can (and will) kill you.
Behold the Beyond
This is such a unique card, it deserves its own section. In general, the situations you should cast it are: Your hand is terrible (ie full of lands/dead cards), you know (or suspect very highly) your opponent will play a very large threat you don't have an answer for in hand, or you are in (or very close to) topdeck mode. If you cast Behold because of the threat, you should obviously get something to answer said item. Outside of that, these are your general piles:
This group is for when the board is about even or you are slightly ahead.
Chandra, Flamecaller: Our premier closer.
Descend upon the Sinful: In case they start to make a comeback, or to clear the board for your guys to get in.
*Note: this can be a less powerful spell, like Path or Descend, if you don't want to either hold up 6 mana or you don't think it will be relevant
Sorin, Grim Nemesis or Ob Nixilis Reignited: Both give you some nice removal options.
This is for when you are either very far ahead or very far behind.
Descend Upon the Sinful: Either ensures creatures don't show up or removes the ones that are threatening.
Transgress the Mind: Gets some nasty cards out of the opponent's hand.
Ruinous Path: This could be an unmaking if the life loss wasn't relevant or you needed to hit something like Starfield of Nyx
Use this for example if you know your opponent can play an couple Ulamogs in 2 or so turns and you need to kill them beforehand.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Arlinn Kord
Chandra, Flamecaller
The correct way to sequence here is:
Gideon, 0. Arlinn, 0. Next turn play Chandra, +1 her and Gideon, then +1 Kord. (21 trample damage)
Matchups
Will be updated as the meta is figured out.
BR Vamps: 70/30. A sweeper or one of our creatures is very good there, but they are incredibly fast, and many lists will play copies of Voice/Waltz. Theyre also the only list with actual burn.
In: Languish, Radiant Flames, 1-2 mana removal, Kalitas, Linvala
Out: 1-2 Unmaking, 1 Arlinn or Gideon, expensive non-walkers
Bant Company: 60/40. If you draw a sweeper, you will almost always win. If not, whether or not you do will depend on how many companies they get and what said companies hit (also Avacyn. She's annoying unless languish/descend are your sweepers of choice).
In: Sweepers, Cheap Removal, Hand Disruption, Linvala
Out: Durdly cards (behold, seasons past, etc), arlinn, random others
R/G Ramp: 55/45 to 60/40. We are favored, but not by much. The key to winning here is to get out either Gideon or Chandra (or your creature of choice) and beat down. In general this will come down to a topdeck war, while our spells are on average better, they have a higher ceiling.
In: Hand Disruption
Out: Cheap removal
Wx Humans: 70/30 to 50/50. Land a sweeper, and you will just about always win. They are significantly faster than us, however, so don't keep hands with no plays that impact the board (or discard) before t4.
In: Languish, RadFlames, Cheap Removal, Kalitas/Linvala
Out: 1 Unmaking, Durdly stuff, other life loss cards.
Grixis: 65/35 to 70/40. They have very little effective removal here, though several MD ruinous paths are annoying.
In: Seasons Past, draw, slower items
Out: RadFlames/Cheap removal
BWr: 60/40. Better finishers and Anguished Unmaking make this a bit worse than grixis, but on the whole follow the same pattern.
In: Seasons Past, draw, slower items
Out: Cheap removal/RadFlames
Rites (w/combo): 60/40. This would be higher, but the combo is an actual threat (plus westvale abbey can very much hurt).
In: Sweepers
Out: Whatever you can find. This will depend mostly on the individual list.
Rites (w/o combo): 70/30. The same vulnerability to languish, not an especially fast clock.
In: Sweepers
Out: see above. Arlinn is a good candidate here.
BG Petition: 65/35. We are much grindier than they are. In order to win, BG has to establish the loop with relevant removal and not just be dead to random topdecks. That said, running into The Great Aurora is not fun.
In: Seasons Past, Disruption, Draw
Out: most removal (leave in unmaking, path, and a decstone).
GW tokens: 60/40. They don't really have a nut draw that can beat us very well (though something like inspector>HBW>Nissa>Gideon>Avacyn wouldn't be bad at all), and they lose hard to both Languish and Chandra.
In: Sweepers, Removal, disruption
Out: Arlinn, others as needed.
Sideboard Guide
(note: this only covers the cards not mentioned in the maindeck section)
Self-Inflicted Wound: Nice against Bant, Esper, and random G/W decks. Run 1-2.
Surge of Righteousness: Good vs r/b aggro. Run 1-2.
Roast: Decent if something like anafenza or rhino come back, but we have better removal and it missing fliers is very relevant. Run 0.
Lightning Axe: We can't afford losing a card. Run 0.
Infinite Obliteration: Stripping your opponents biggest threat and seeing their hand is great. It is awkward if you whiff though, and you only get rid of 1 of their threats. Exile is great though. Run 0-2.
Pick the Brain: This card sucks. You will rarely have delirium to enable this early, and their threat won't always even be in their hand. Run 0.
Display of Dominance: Hits things like tutelage, pact, and ob nixilis. It is also okay to board in vs non-white removal heavy decks. Run 0-1.
Naturalize: Relevant hits include: goggles, tutelage, pact, oath cycle. Run 0-2.
Natural State: The 1 mana cost can be relevant in the first few turns, but usually naturalize is better. Run 0-1 if not using naturalize.
Clip Wings: Kills the Dragonlords, Avacyn, random fliers, and Ormendahl. Meta dependent, but very good when you would want it. Run 0-2.
Weaknesses
The list of cards you do not want to see across the table looks like:
Duress/Transgress, other hand disruption. >> These are very not-fun to play against, but they aren't the end of the world. Losing your only threat sucks, though.
Negate/Other counterspells >> Negate is the worst, as it is cheap and hits just about every one of your non-land cards. The good thing is that landing a walker gets you off to a nice advantage and makes it easier to get others.
Removal that can actually hit walkers >> There isn't alot of this (mostly sac effects on gideon, path, slaughter, and unmaking), but what there is hurts.
Manlands >> The list of removal we have that can actually one is limited to To the Slaugher. The best way to fight back is either having a manland of your own out, a gideon (yay for chumps), or drawing your one creature.
Dragonlord Silumgar >> Stealing one of your walkers (esp chandra, sorin, or an ultable gideon) sucks. Alot.
Tragic Arrogance >> The only "board wipe" that can hit walkers, it will do an excellent job at dropping our board down to a state that is much less unfavorable to us.
Primers
4C Walkers
R1>2-0 vs Jund Company.
g1 a pair of chandras cleaned up with some sorin backup. g2 chandra, radflames, and sorin stabilized me at 1 life, and gideon won from there.
R2>2-1 vs Esper Dragons
g1 I got stuck on 2 lands and conceded turn 4, g2 chandra beats down and transgress takes OJT. g3 he actually kept in OJ commands (despite seeing no creatures), and brought in plague. eventually I killed plague with nahiri and got an ob to ult status (mostly we were staring at an empty board all game), he stole w/silumgar+ulted on me. descend+chandra took him out and I won 2 turns later at 3 life
R3> 0-2 vs Bant Company
g1 I got shut off red with double chandras in hand (1st time I've been shut off a color, ever). g2 radflames stalled for a couple turns with avacyn/linvala, but he played 4 companies in 2 turns.
Primers
4C Walkers
Primers
4C Walkers
Here's what my testing has said: if you cast Behold and get to untap next turn, you pretty much win. However, as I mentioned, it is expensive and the discard is (sometimes) a real cost. Behold is probably one of the most win-more cards ever. It also decides topdeck wars. Overall, I would say if you have a spare slot, you could do alot worse than throwing a singleton in, but it's not worth going to extra trouble to throw in.
I am a bit skeptical about cutting red, as chandra is probably the best walker overall, and her and arlinn are very good at closing out games. Narset is really nice as well, esp since over 1/2 of our deck hits on her, I just don't see cutting the premier win-cons and anti-aggro cards out is a good idea. A 5c deck would be interesting, with a small splash for sarkhan and narset probably being quite doable (even with only a couple of blue lands), as OON and wood do such a good job of manafixing. I'm just not really sure what to cut for them, though I will definitely look into it.
Primers
4C Walkers
I have done some testing, here is what I have found:
Sarkhan is really, really, good.
Narset is meh. Sure, the +1 is nice, but we have alot of card draw already, and she doesn't always hit. The -2 is okay, but we don't really want to spend our time casting sorcery speed I/S. Her ult is devastating against some decks, but it A) is an ult, and B) isn't good enough to make up for the 1st 2.
OOJ is difficult to cast. I think it would be rather powerful if you could reliably get it out on t3, but the way I built it there were not alot of blue sources to do so. If you wanted to drop a color for blue, you are probably best dropping Ob for Jace, sorin for more chandra/sarkhan, and playing more sweepers MD.
On a different note, after seeing several new decks show up (not-garbage gw midrange, more streamlined vamps decks, and W/x token lists (usually with Ormendahl)), adding Languish is becoming a better and better option as it is cheap enough to cast in aggro and not be embarassing, while able to kill premier threats like Avacyn and Thunderbreak.
Primers
4C Walkers
that depends on the build. the lower to the ground the weenie build goes, the better we get. in general, resolving a sweeper with a walker in hand or on the BF wins the game on the spot. the worst i've seen against either are the builds that end up curving always watching into big threats (esp on the play) when we have a slow hand without much interaction. in general, aggroish decks are a great MU post-board (lots of sweepers and removal), and good preboard (removal+gideon is good. who knew?).
Primers
4C Walkers
*Note: I am counting Weirding Wood as 4 sources of each non-green color and 2 sources of green (as it needs green mana to start with, but gives 2 mana of that color once out). Also, if one wanted to substitute an island for one of the mountains (perhaps to splash for Sarkhan Unbroken), that would give you 9 blue sources, plus OON.
With only the lands, we end up with:
10 green sources, 13 white sources, 12 black sources, and 10 red sources
After adding Wierding Wood, we get: 12 green sources, 17 white sources, 16 black sources, and 14 red sources
OON is a tricky one to factor in, because it gives (sort of) infinite sources of each color, but only if you a) have green mana, and b) it is in your hand. Assuming we are on the play, never mulligan, prioritize oath+green mana before any other plays, and don't take into account whether the land is tapped (these 2 would only decrease the margin of us having one out on t5 by a few percentage points), we can determine that the odds of you getting an Oath out are:
Turn-----Have Oath-----Have Green Mana-----Able to play Oath
1--------------40%-----------------74%----------------------30%
2--------------45%-----------------79%----------------------36%
3--------------49%-----------------83%----------------------41%
4--------------53%-----------------86%----------------------46%
5--------------57%-----------------89%----------------------50%
Primers
4C Walkers
Primers
4C Walkers
Primers
4C Walkers
1x Linvala, the Preserver
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Oath of Chandra
1x Transgress the Mind
2x To the Slaughter
2x Radiant Flames
2x Clip Wings
2x Ultimate Price
2x Languish
In my local meta surge really had no place in the board, Clip is an obvious answer to the U/W or Esper Dragons Match-up (local meta), and as you mentioned with the white weenie hordes Languish puts in serious work.
Match 1 - UR Rise from the Tides Brew
He was running Brain in a Jar to try and pop that out instant speed at end step. After I caught the rise in his hand from a transgress I had a pretty good idea of what he was up to, so unmakinged the brain for an easy game 1 win. Game two, he never got a chance to drop the brain and went full on with getting as much into his yard for a 13 zombie rise, I topdecked Declaration in Stone and that was game. He's putting in Impact Tremors for his next go around, was a really fun match-up and a really neat brew.
Match 2 - GB Delirium
Game 1 he rolled in a Mindwrack into Mindwrack into Mindwrack into a traverse for another Mindwrack, couldn't keep up with life loss at that point. Boarded in a lot of my removal for game 2, kept his board empty the entire game and +1 on Sorin with Gideon on the field carried the game. Game 3 was very similar, he just didn't have answers for the planeswalkers and ended up dying to a +1 Sorin into Sorin number 2.
Match 3 - White Weenie
Game 1 he flooded out and just could not establish a board state and scooped it up after his 4th land draw in a row. Game two was a different story, a few early threats and an Always Watching had me in down to 4 by turn 4, I lucked into a Languish in my opening hand and the land to cast. After my Languish he refilled his board the next turn, not realizing I had Radiant Flames in hand. After the second sweep he was hellbent and a +1 Arlinn on Shambling Vent carried me to victory.
Match 4 - RB Vampire Madness
Younger kid, was 11 o clock, about 3 turns in he had to scoop and leave. No clue what was in his hand but I had a decent draw and was set for a turn 4 Gideon, 5 Ob, 6 Chandra play.
I gotta say I am loving the deck overall, and it's really throwing people off a lot just by virtue of the amount of planeswalkers being played. No one so far at my local meta has come up with a response, and in play-testing it just tears through the common stuff out there. I'm considering Kozilek's Return somewhere as I feel that may be the best Secure or CoCo response. I almost want to jam a Sarkhan Unbroken into the deck as I think it could be amusing, but not sure what to remove or even if it's a good idea.
--the problem with return against coco is that most of their hits have 3+ toughness, but it does work wonders against secure lol.
--Sarkhan is very good, I've had the same problems with what to cut as well. Aside from that, there aren't any blue walkers that are good enough (narset is just meh overall, and jace is a worse ob nixilis).
--Sooner or later someone might bring in a tragic arrogance, as that is very good at setting the boardstate back to a more even playing field. It also stops our more broken draws (the gideon into ob into chandra etc ones).
--Also, clip is also a very nice answer to Ormendahl
Primers
4C Walkers
Match 1 (2-0 vs Jeskai Something):
He had a couple counterspells and TITI both games, but Chandra killed him to fast for me to really figure out the rest of his deck.
Match 2 (2-1 vs BWc Midrange):
G1 I ended up with only 1 black mana and couldn't cast the pair of Obs that would have saved me (or at least slowed the clock by several turns). G2 we went back and forth until I topdecked Behold the Beyond and snowballed from there. Game 3 I flooded and he had 3 copies of Avacyn to deal with my pair of Sorins. In the end Chandra and Ob just raced him though.
Match 3 (2-0 vs RB Vampires):
G1 he gets me to 2 life before a topdeck Descend wipes him, and he never recovers. G2 Languish, Surge, and Sorin easily put the game out of reach.
Match 3 (RW Eldrazi):
This was by far the toughest MU of the night. G1 Transgress took his Smasher then Gideon+Spires clocked him to 4 where his Pia was met with a Descend Upon the Sinful and Gid swung for lethal. G2 Transgress stole a TKS, Chandra wiped away the tokens for his Abbey (I had to wipe him 3 more times in the game) before he was stuck with a pair of manlands to my 3 walkers.
Overall the deck is performing wonderfully, but if I keep seeing these sorts of lists I'm going to drop some stuff so I can add Clip Wings to the sideboard.
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Would you mind posting any changes you made to accommodate the blue 'walkers? I'm also thinking about using Jace if the mana supports him. Thanks!
2x Canopy Vista
2x Cinder Glade
5x Forest
3x Hissing Quagmire
3x Mountain
4x Needle Spires
4x Shambling Vent
2x Smoldering Marsh
Planeswalker (15)
4x Chandra, Flamecaller
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
3x Ob Nixilis Reignited
4x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3x Archangel Avacyn
2x Dragonlord Atarka
4x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Enchantment (4)
4x Oath of Nissa
Sorcery (7)
3x Planar Outburst
4x Radiant Flames
3x Clip Wings
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Infinite Obliteration
2x Rending Volley
3x Transgress the Mind
2x Virulent Plague
The deck plays a lot like Tron in Modern if you've ever played that deck. You spend your early turns digging for good stuff with Oath of Nissa, Nissa herself (since she replaces herself with a land) and wiping the board of early plays with Radiant Flames.
Around turn 4, the deck really turns on with Nahiri, typically coming down and exiling a creature, giving you immediate card advantage since she's now likely a 2-for-1. Every turn after that you can keep rolling out game-ending cards that also trade and generate card advantage. Avacyn offers free blocks and often eats a creature when she does, Planar Outburst can clear an entire board and also double as a wincon if the awaken effect is used, Ob Nixilis effectively reads - "Destroy Target creature, then start drawing free cards if your opponent doesn't stop you" Sorin largely does the same except he damages your opponent sometimes while drawing those free cards, Chandra offers board wipes 8-11 along with being a fairly large threat to end the game on her own, and 11 manlands let us turn mana-heavy hands into creatures as desired.
The sideboard needs help, but isn't a huge concern as the parade of planeswalkers can win most games regardless of what the opponent is doing.
The worst MU I've noticed is UR Goggles, which is why I have the Transgress the Minds and I probably need to include Reclaiming Vines as the most relevant cards our opponent plays in that MU are Fevered Visions and Goggles, they really can't keep up without at least 1 of those in play. I think it's important to mention that this deck is positive vs both white weenies and bant company, the 2 decks that are making up 90% of relevant tournament results currently.
Feel free to adjust the SB as desired, but the MD is pretty tuned already. Give it a run on XMage or proxy it out and let me know what you guys think.
I haven't faced UR Goggles since I reworked my SB to account for them, but by far the biggest issue was with goggles enabling multiplicative value on their cards and Visions nuking my walkers at the end of every turn. I simply couldn't get out from under them and figured the best way to address both of those effects would be 1) snagging them out of my opponents hand with Transgress and 2) putting more ways to remove enchants and artifacts directly in the SB. I haven't had much time to test this week though so let me tinker with the SB a bit more and I will come up with something else.
I seriously think something akin to my list is secretly the best deck in Standard right now. I don't feel lost against any deck I play against. The two biggest issues with the deck are the cost ($600 for a standard deck is ridiculous) and my personal lack of experience when it comes to performing major tuning to a sideboard. I am well-accustomed with adjusting individual cards to keep up with meta changes from week to week, but I am feeling pretty lost in general right now as the meta is still new and I'm still trying to figure out what I do and do not need to adjust for.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see someone with a 4c walker list at the pro tour this coming weekend though.
Languish is really, really good. It matches up very well against just about every deck that did anything today (excepting blue and ramp decks). Radflames is similar, but it does lose to avacyn and kytheon (plus 4 is alot easier to get to than 5).
There is not a single bad MU that showed up today. However, with this in mind I think it makes sense to go up to 3 and 2 Languish/Flames across the board. It also seems prudent to drop at least one copy of surge of righteousness, as I can count on one hand the number of times I've cast it on a non-manland creature.
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C Long Live Eldrazi C
I'm still running it. The main reasons for green are this: Ponder, Ramp, Nissa, and Arlinn. Oath of Nissa and Wierding Wood do alot to both help you accelerate out walkers and to find threats. Nissa is just all around great, ensures we hit land drops, and lets Nahiri fetch up a walker. Arlinn applies excellent pressure and usually will at least trade, if not get 2 creatures with her bolt ability. Lastly, Seasons past. That card is absolutely backbreaking in our lists as we have cards all across the curve. Usually it ends up being a draw 5, but I've seen a few draw 6 and draw 4's off of it too. You could just play mardu (perhaps adding in things like HBW and dragonmaster), but the green splash is generally more consistent, plus its more spicy and enjoyable than running only 3 colors (the feeling when you beat people after they trash your manabase is also great).
[Note]--Major update planned for primer with details on all the PT decks and how to beat them. Will likely be up by the end of the week.
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