I dunno. It's probably better than I think, but Endurance seems a little bit low impact and tricky to use effectively. From what I can see, there will be a fair bit of exiling removal in the format too, so Regenerate is a lot less relevant. If you mean playing it over Contortion, I don't like that idea. Contortion kills early drops like Advocate and Ayli. That's its primary purpose for being in the deck. The pump is one of those things you do to get value if there are no good targets (or to clear out your hand for Sea Gate). So they are two different cards really. One is straight removal, the other is a combat trick or counter for destroy/damage removal. Cut rotating opened up a couple slots, so it could maybe fill in there, but I generally think Warping Wail is a more effective card there.
I dunno. It's probably better than I think, but Endurance seems a little bit low impact and tricky to use effectively. From what I can see, there will be a fair bit of exiling removal in the format too, so Regenerate is a lot less relevant. If you mean playing it over Contortion, I don't like that idea. Contortion kills early drops like Advocate and Ayli. That's its primary purpose for being in the deck. The pump is one of those things you do to get value if there are no good targets (or to clear out your hand for Sea Gate). So they are two different cards really. One is straight removal, the other is a combat trick or counter for destroy/damage removal. Cut rotating opened up a couple slots, so it could maybe fill in there, but I generally think Warping Wail is a more effective card there.
good points. i still think this deck is its infancy stage and needs more rigorous testing..
I guess. The shell has been around the fringes of competitive play in Oath Standard and 95% of the deck stays intact with rotation. Truely we only lose Tomb and Murderous Cut. I haven't really seen Endurance get play in Oath Standard anywhere, so I'm skeptical that it's worth the slot.
I'm brewing a B/W version of this deck. I think the white splash gives us a lot of things we want, and I don't think it matters that we play a bunch of ETB tapped lands, since this deck really doesn't have a 1-drop. I'm quite fine playing 4 Shambling Vents and 3 Evolving Wilds.
White gives us:
1. Silkwrap and Declaration in Stone - stuff that helps exile creatures for Wasteland Strangler (a card I've seen in few lists). There are going to be a lot of pesky Humans running around in this format. Being able to go t2 Silkwrap into t3 Wasteland Strangler is going to hurt them badly.
2. Anguished Unmaking - our answer to Westvale Abbey, Archangel Avacyn, and Planeswalkers.
3. Sorin - Sorin's +1 ability is awesome in a deck with a lot of decently-costed cards. +1 Sorin into Reality Smasher is going to be huge.
4. Eldrazi Displacer - our answer to Reflector Mage and removal.
5. Archangel Avacyn - this card is busted, and even though she's not an Eldrazi, she fits well into this deck. We don't even care that she kills our own Hangarbacks and Matter Reshapers - we get value out of them anyways.
Nice deck fellow withe splasher
I agree, Shambling Vent has been a lot of value and it's cheap to activate. It's also good to have man lands if the board gets wiped, Shambling has saved me from a tight spot more then once in the later games.
Silkwrap are a bit "slow", even tho Silkwarp, on the paper, has a nice synergy with both Matter Reshaper and Wasteland Strangler. I used to go with them earlier but I found out I would much rather run instant spells and other creatures, often I was sitting with my strangler not being able to throw it with it's ability even tho I ran more exile cards then you, if I would run them I would go with less then 4.
Declaration in Stone is an awesome card tho, I've added a couple of them myself.
totally. A lot of our creatures become other creatures when they die.
However, If I were to run a third mana source, in addition to B and C, it would be R all the way.
Forerunner of slaughter is badass. Both FoS and Thopter Engineer look real good coming off of Matter Reshaper.
Although I am not certain the mana fixing can be as good in this deck as CBW would be.
Yeah, Caves of Koilos is basically a tri-land in a B/W deck, B/R wouldn't have that option which would make the mana a lot worse.
I think you choose the color combination you want to play based upon whether or not you want to be aggro Eldrazi, midrange Eldrazi, or ramp Eldrazi. I think the Mono B and B/W builds of Eldrazi are definitely midrange by nature. You have good midsize value creatures, good removal/discard/draw spells, and a lot of decent but not super favorable or unfavorable matchups. B/R, U/R, and W/R Eldrazi are all aggro builds (basically anything with Vile Aggregate is going to want to be aggressive).
This is also the reasoning behind why I put Seer's Lantern in my list over Hedron Crawler. Midrange matchups often boil down to a top-deck war, and the one with the Seer's Lantern is going to win that war.
Silkwrap are a bit "slow", even tho Silkwarp, on the paper, has a nice synergy with both Matter Reshaper and Wasteland Strangler. I used to go with them earlier but I found out I would much rather run instant spells and other creatures, often I was sitting with my strangler not being able to throw it with it's ability even tho I ran more exile cards then you, if I would run them I would go with less then 4.
My guess is that the Silkwraps in my list should just be Declaration in Stones. Agree on the Stranglers if the meta ends up being less creature-heavy than I think. Again, I expect a lot of Humans and maybe even Vampires out
of the gate. It's just so much value though, I can't see a good reason not to run 4. At worst, it's a 3/2 for 3.
totally. A lot of our creatures become other creatures when they die.
However, If I were to run a third mana source, in addition to B and C, it would be R all the way.
Forerunner of slaughter is badass. Both FoS and Thopter Engineer look real good coming off of Matter Reshaper.
Although I am not certain the mana fixing can be as good in this deck as CBW would be.
Yeah, Caves of Koilos is basically a tri-land in a B/W deck, B/R wouldn't have that option which would make the mana a lot worse.
I think you choose the color combination you want to play based upon whether or not you want to be aggro Eldrazi, midrange Eldrazi, or ramp Eldrazi. I think the Mono B and B/W builds of Eldrazi are definitely midrange by nature. You have good midsize value creatures, good removal/discard/draw spells, and a lot of decent but not super favorable or unfavorable matchups. B/R, U/R, and W/R Eldrazi are all aggro builds (basically anything with Vile Aggregate is going to want to be aggressive).
This is also the reasoning behind why I put Seer's Lantern in my list over Hedron Crawler. Midrange matchups often boil down to a top-deck war, and the one with the Seer's Lantern is going to win that war.
Silkwrap are a bit "slow", even tho Silkwarp, on the paper, has a nice synergy with both Matter Reshaper and Wasteland Strangler. I used to go with them earlier but I found out I would much rather run instant spells and other creatures, often I was sitting with my strangler not being able to throw it with it's ability even tho I ran more exile cards then you, if I would run them I would go with less then 4.
My guess is that the Silkwraps in my list should just be Declaration in Stones. Agree on the Stranglers if the meta ends up being less creature-heavy than I think. Again, I expect a lot of Humans and maybe even Vampires out
of the gate. It's just so much value though, I can't see a good reason not to run 4. At worst, it's a 3/2 for 3.
There are definitely BR Vampire lists flying around. It's the new aggro king in this meta. This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
I definitely considered it, and if Vampires really is king then it's definitely the right move I think. Not so concerned about Humans because Humans don't fly and we can block them with our Eldrazi
This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
I definitely considered it, and if Vampires really is king then it's definitely the right move I think. Not so concerned about Humans because Humans don't fly and we can block them with our Eldrazi
totally. A lot of our creatures become other creatures when they die.
However, If I were to run a third mana source, in addition to B and C, it would be R all the way.
Forerunner of slaughter is badass. Both FoS and Thopter Engineer look real good coming off of Matter Reshaper.
Although I am not certain the mana fixing can be as good in this deck as CBW would be.
Yeah, Caves of Koilos is basically a tri-land in a B/W deck, B/R wouldn't have that option which would make the mana a lot worse.
I think you choose the color combination you want to play based upon whether or not you want to be aggro Eldrazi, midrange Eldrazi, or ramp Eldrazi. I think the Mono B and B/W builds of Eldrazi are definitely midrange by nature. You have good midsize value creatures, good removal/discard/draw spells, and a lot of decent but not super favorable or unfavorable matchups. B/R, U/R, and W/R Eldrazi are all aggro builds (basically anything with Vile Aggregate is going to want to be aggressive).
This is also the reasoning behind why I put Seer's Lantern in my list over Hedron Crawler. Midrange matchups often boil down to a top-deck war, and the one with the Seer's Lantern is going to win that war.
Silkwrap are a bit "slow", even tho Silkwarp, on the paper, has a nice synergy with both Matter Reshaper and Wasteland Strangler. I used to go with them earlier but I found out I would much rather run instant spells and other creatures, often I was sitting with my strangler not being able to throw it with it's ability even tho I ran more exile cards then you, if I would run them I would go with less then 4.
My guess is that the Silkwraps in my list should just be Declaration in Stones. Agree on the Stranglers if the meta ends up being less creature-heavy than I think. Again, I expect a lot of Humans and maybe even Vampires out
of the gate. It's just so much value though, I can't see a good reason not to run 4. At worst, it's a 3/2 for 3.
There are definitely BR Vampire lists flying around. It's the new aggro king in this meta. This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
I think w/x humans is going to be better than the b/r vampire
This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
I definitely considered it, and if Vampires really is king then it's definitely the right move I think. Not so concerned about Humans because Humans don't fly and we can block them with our Eldrazi
This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
I definitely considered it, and if Vampires really is king then it's definitely the right move I think. Not so concerned about Humans because Humans don't fly and we can block them with our Eldrazi
They are and we have at least 8 removal spells and 7 removal "abilities", blighted fen and bearer, mb. But they are a "go-wide" kinda deck which doesn't only depends on those 2 for the kill. With the counter triggers from olivia and indulgent aristocrat being a major worry if we don't kill them as soon as they're on the board. A mb boardwipe would be great for tempo too.
They are and we have at least 8 removal spells and 7 removal "abilities", blighted fen and bearer, mb
Bearer is not in any way good against aggro. It costs 4 mana to get the sacrifice effect and then it can't block on top of that. I wouldn't recommend playing it IMHO.
They are and we have at least 8 removal spells and 7 removal "abilities", blighted fen and bearer, mb
Bearer is not in any way good against aggro. It costs 4 mana to get the sacrifice effect and then it can't block on top of that. I wouldn't recommend playing it IMHO.
They are and we have at least 8 removal spells and 7 removal "abilities", blighted fen and bearer, mb
Bearer is not in any way good against aggro. It costs 4 mana to get the sacrifice effect and then it can't block on top of that. I wouldn't recommend playing it IMHO.
Flaying Tendrils
Works well with Matter Reshaper. Potentially a T3 boardwipe, that exiles all creatures instead of just killing them. With alot of graveyard shenannigans in the coming set, this might just turn out to be our ace in the hole.
If I'm not mistaken, Flaying Tendrils and Matter Reshaper is a nonbo, because Tendrils replaces dying with exile, which prevents the Reshaper from activating.
Flaying Tendrils
Works well with Matter Reshaper. Potentially a T3 boardwipe, that exiles all creatures instead of just killing them. With alot of graveyard shenannigans in the coming set, this might just turn out to be our ace in the hole.
If I'm not mistaken, Flaying Tendrils and Matter Reshaper is a nonbo, because Tendrils replaces dying with exile, which prevents the Reshaper from activating.
I've thought about trying a more midrange version of this, similar to what the OP said about Modern Jund. (Post SOI)
Basically a HUGEdiscardsuite, followed by TKS and Reality Smasher. Throw in some removal and have a field day. IF you get the curve, they're pretty much guaranteed to not have any removal left for TKS and Reality Smasher, making them much better imo. It also leaves pretty much only top-decked board wipes or edicts left for Reality Smasher, which usually are taken care of by Warping Wail.
Lastly, because I'm a (whatever personality for MTG that loves bad cards and tricks), and love lifegain, I'd probably add in Grotesque Mutation, or maybe even go with Alms of the Vein.
The more I look at this format, the more I fear decks going wide against us, whether it be Westvale Abbey decks or mono-red/vampires. I've decided I'm going to main deck Flaying Tendrils at SCGBALT this weekend. This necessitated some changes to the deck which I think work out nicely. I replaced the Matter Reshapers with Eldrazi Displacers, which are better against Westvale Abbey. I also took out the Avacyn and just went with the fourth Smasher.
Sideboard is interesting. The more I think about Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, the more I am in love with the idea. She sacrifices the Hangarbacks before they can be exiled, gains life against aggro decks, and her second ability can be relevant against control (especially if you do make a lot of Thopters and/or they keep removing your creatures). Virulent Plague is a bit of a nombo with the Thopter tokens but I expect it to be good enough against most decks with a lot of tokens to not really care.
Last, but not least, Essence Depleter. I think this card is actually Standard playable as a 1 or 2 of. In a long grindy game, if you can stick this guy with a couple of Displacers to protect him then he'll win the game pretty quickly. Against aggro he too can gain life. I'm going to give him a whirl.
Can we define the shell of this Primer? Is it midrange or aggro? Dark Eldrazi or 3c Eldrazi? Wpuld rather not see this thread going in all different directions. Thanks
This deck seems awesome, could anyone give me a rundown on the ins and outs? How do the different colorless lands compare? Like how does blighted fen perform compared to mirrorpool or ruins of oran rief? Does the deck work better running more aggro two-drops or as a midrange deck using duress and transgress the mind in the early turns? It seems like standard is going to be very aggressive compared to before, so maybe running fewer low drops and more board wipes pre-board might be better? What are some of the deck's best and worst matchups?
Has anyone tried playing with Asylum Visitor in place of the other two drops? It seems like it could do more than Mimic, and a lot less useless later on than Crawler. What about Kalitas as a sideboard option against aggro? I play strictly on MTGO, so I can't test for a while and would love to have the deck more tuned for when SOI hits.
Mirrorpool looks powerful, but I've found it was just win more, and more often just annoying that it enters tapped.
I think Sea-Gate is probably our best land by far. I would have put Tomb on the top if it was still legal, with a close second to Wreckage. Refuellinng in the grinder games (which the Black build is apt to have) is so important.
Consuls is better at giving you some board presence than other options. The Thopters flying is big. I've ranked that a bit higher than I personally rank it for the Black build, just because it is quite good in the Mono-Red version.
Ruins is surprisingly useful at making random Thopters better, plays really well with Hangarback, makes Mimic a bit better too, and otherwise makes Seer and Smasher trump most other creatures that they otherwise might not.
Fen and Steppe both have a lot of potential, I think, though haven't gotten a heap of play thus far.
That's about where I'd cut off the inclusions, as you only have mayb 10 lands you can devote to full colorless in the single color build (less if you splash another color).
Edit: Concerning Mimic. It depends on your build, but I've found him to be excellent.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
good points. i still think this deck is its infancy stage and needs more rigorous testing..
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Nice deck fellow withe splasher
I agree, Shambling Vent has been a lot of value and it's cheap to activate. It's also good to have man lands if the board gets wiped, Shambling has saved me from a tight spot more then once in the later games.
I would absolutely play Archangel Avacyn and Sorin, Grim Nemesis if I could get my hands on them!
Silkwrap are a bit "slow", even tho Silkwarp, on the paper, has a nice synergy with both Matter Reshaper and Wasteland Strangler. I used to go with them earlier but I found out I would much rather run instant spells and other creatures, often I was sitting with my strangler not being able to throw it with it's ability even tho I ran more exile cards then you, if I would run them I would go with less then 4.
Declaration in Stone is an awesome card tho, I've added a couple of them myself.
Restore Balance
Green Devotion x
Restore Balance
Green Devotion x
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Yeah, Caves of Koilos is basically a tri-land in a B/W deck, B/R wouldn't have that option which would make the mana a lot worse.
I think you choose the color combination you want to play based upon whether or not you want to be aggro Eldrazi, midrange Eldrazi, or ramp Eldrazi. I think the Mono B and B/W builds of Eldrazi are definitely midrange by nature. You have good midsize value creatures, good removal/discard/draw spells, and a lot of decent but not super favorable or unfavorable matchups. B/R, U/R, and W/R Eldrazi are all aggro builds (basically anything with Vile Aggregate is going to want to be aggressive).
This is also the reasoning behind why I put Seer's Lantern in my list over Hedron Crawler. Midrange matchups often boil down to a top-deck war, and the one with the Seer's Lantern is going to win that war.
My guess is that the Silkwraps in my list should just be Declaration in Stones. Agree on the Stranglers if the meta ends up being less creature-heavy than I think. Again, I expect a lot of Humans and maybe even Vampires out
of the gate. It's just so much value though, I can't see a good reason not to run 4. At worst, it's a 3/2 for 3.
There are definitely BR Vampire lists flying around. It's the new aggro king in this meta. This build definitely needs to mb some board wipes.
I definitely considered it, and if Vampires really is king then it's definitely the right move I think. Not so concerned about Humans because Humans don't fly and we can block them with our Eldrazi
2 Self-inflicted Wound
2 Virulent plague
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Ruinous Path
2 Languish
2 Warping Wail
3 Infinite Obliteration
Current non-creature spell list is
4 Ultimate Price
4 grasp of darkness
2 duress
2 transgress the mind
Considering replacing 2x Grasp of Darkness with 1 or 2x of Ruinous Path and/or Languish. My list has so many 2cmc cards
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I've been testing this buld against BR Vampire, if they get olivia, mobilized for war and Drana, liberator of malakir out, it's easily gg.
I think w/x humans is going to be better than the b/r vampire
C Long Live Eldrazi C
They are and we have at least 8 removal spells and 7 removal "abilities", blighted fen and bearer, mb. But they are a "go-wide" kinda deck which doesn't only depends on those 2 for the kill. With the counter triggers from olivia and indulgent aristocrat being a major worry if we don't kill them as soon as they're on the board. A mb boardwipe would be great for tempo too.
This deck gets outta control really quick..
Bearer is not in any way good against aggro. It costs 4 mana to get the sacrifice effect and then it can't block on top of that. I wouldn't recommend playing it IMHO.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I will have to give Carroer Thrall a try.
If I'm not mistaken, Flaying Tendrils and Matter Reshaper is a nonbo, because Tendrils replaces dying with exile, which prevents the Reshaper from activating.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Basically a HUGE discard suite, followed by TKS and Reality Smasher. Throw in some removal and have a field day. IF you get the curve, they're pretty much guaranteed to not have any removal left for TKS and Reality Smasher, making them much better imo. It also leaves pretty much only top-decked board wipes or edicts left for Reality Smasher, which usually are taken care of by Warping Wail.
Finally add in a splash of Pulse of Murasa, using Llanowar Wastes and Crumbling Vestige, which gives you lifegain, and even more inevitability from your card=Thought-Knot Seer]TKS[/card] and Reality Smashers.
Lastly, because I'm a (whatever personality for MTG that loves bad cards and tricks), and love lifegain, I'd probably add in Grotesque Mutation, or maybe even go with Alms of the Vein.
Sideboard is interesting. The more I think about Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, the more I am in love with the idea. She sacrifices the Hangarbacks before they can be exiled, gains life against aggro decks, and her second ability can be relevant against control (especially if you do make a lot of Thopters and/or they keep removing your creatures). Virulent Plague is a bit of a nombo with the Thopter tokens but I expect it to be good enough against most decks with a lot of tokens to not really care.
Last, but not least, Essence Depleter. I think this card is actually Standard playable as a 1 or 2 of. In a long grindy game, if you can stick this guy with a couple of Displacers to protect him then he'll win the game pretty quickly. Against aggro he too can gain life. I'm going to give him a whirl.
3x Hangarback Walker
1x Endless One
2x Wasteland Strangler
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
Spells
3x Declaration in Stone
3x Flaying Tendrils
4x Transgress the Mind
2x Seer's Lantern
3x Anguished Unmaking
2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Evolving Wilds
1x Wastes
3x Plains
2x Sea-Gate Wreckage
1x Corrupted Crossroads
3x Blighted Fen
4x Swamp
4x Shambling Vent
1x Ruinous Path
1x Virulent Plague
2x Dead Weight
2x Surge of Righteousness
2x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2x Warping Wail
2x Read the Bones
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Essence Depleter
1x Anguished Unmaking
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Has anyone tried playing with Asylum Visitor in place of the other two drops? It seems like it could do more than Mimic, and a lot less useless later on than Crawler. What about Kalitas as a sideboard option against aggro? I play strictly on MTGO, so I can't test for a while and would love to have the deck more tuned for when SOI hits.
Mirrorpool looks powerful, but I've found it was just win more, and more often just annoying that it enters tapped.
I think Sea-Gate is probably our best land by far. I would have put Tomb on the top if it was still legal, with a close second to Wreckage. Refuellinng in the grinder games (which the Black build is apt to have) is so important.
Consuls is better at giving you some board presence than other options. The Thopters flying is big. I've ranked that a bit higher than I personally rank it for the Black build, just because it is quite good in the Mono-Red version.
Ruins is surprisingly useful at making random Thopters better, plays really well with Hangarback, makes Mimic a bit better too, and otherwise makes Seer and Smasher trump most other creatures that they otherwise might not.
Fen and Steppe both have a lot of potential, I think, though haven't gotten a heap of play thus far.
That's about where I'd cut off the inclusions, as you only have mayb 10 lands you can devote to full colorless in the single color build (less if you splash another color).
Edit: Concerning Mimic. It depends on your build, but I've found him to be excellent.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
That's the plan.. Still trying to iron a few kinks.