Never really tried anything with Hermit, and I think he's a good sideboard against control decks... I suggest you replace him with Geier Reach Bandit. As for Arlinn, stick to a 1-of. Your wolves will do all right without her if you don't draw her. Other than that, your deck looks completely solid.
Just to let you know that as a brewer of the old Jund Werewolf deck that got to tier 1 back in the first Innistrad extension, I am still very determined to help you brew the deck to top levels. I did that already with Slivers (thanks to the clever addition of Athreos in an otherwise mono Slivers deck), and just succeeded again with Allies, winning the first place (7-0-0) in the Super Sunday Series at Grand Prix Toronto 2016 (100+ players, single Elimination) :
But... Despite your enthusiasm with the tribe, I think you really should wait for the next extension before investing more time and money in an incomplete tribe (just remember what Wolfir Avenger did to the deck when Avacyn was released). When the next set will be released, it is a lot more likely that we will be able to put together a tier 1 Werewolf deck. Until then, I don't think the deck can win more than 50% of the games in the current meta. 2-2 may get you in the top 8 of a 15 players FNM, but myself, I would aim at 4-0 and no less than 3-1. I know I will fail at first (as I did with Werewolves, Slivers and Allies before brewing the best tribal deck in the meta), but with time, Werewolves will shine. Don't lose hope, but be patient!
Deck is usually RG Stompy but we live in a world with Hangarback Walker and Avacyn, so you have to know when to pump the brakes. Sometimes your clock just isn't fast enough. Here, evasion and mana dumps are key. Evasion puts you over board stalls (some decks in the format are actually engineered to achieve board stalls -- then push over the top with walkers. Imagine that!) Mana dumps allow you to go over the top of other board stall decks.
4 Village Messenger
2 Kessig Forgemaster
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Silverfur Partisan
3 Scourge Wolf
4 Geier Reach Bandit
4 Ember-Eye Wolf
2 pack guardian
2 breakneckrider
Planeswalker
2 Arlinn Kord
Enchantment
3 Howlpack Resurgence
Instants
3 Atarka's command
2 Collected Company
I just added two PG and with 27 creatures CoCo hits more than wiffs. I did notice if I pass a turn to flip my creatures then I give the momentum to my opponent which gives them the chance to mount an offense instead of dealing with my growing board presence. So to flip my wolves I wait for them to not cast any spells. when i side board CoCo leaves a couple of wolves leave and i bring in act of treason, moonlight hunt, clip wings
How do we feel about Nissa and oath of nissa? I really think oath should be a 2 of for its searching
Oath of Nissa is tempo negative if you're playing 1 drops. You can just run more threats.
Oath is fine when you're running a bunch of tokens and look for specific walkers to push damage through. Less good when you're playing a bunch of grizzly bears.
I'm not a werewolf player, but I'd love to get in this discussion.
So, I skimmed through the thread, and I have to ask why not use Cryptolith Rite? It can be used to speed into the bigger, beefier howlers or it can be used to throw the smaller ones out even faster. Not to mention being a great way to feed Duskwatch Recruiter. This is the basis of something I might like.
All anthems. Even if you slow down a turn to play Cryptolith Rite, this deck is full of anthems to turn your weenies into beefies! I particularly like Always Watching for the way it interacts with Cryptolith.
It's true the deck is light on lands, but with the exception of Collected Company, the deck tops out at 3 mana. Cryptolith and even Shaman of Forgotten Ways can smooth out any mana issues.
Between Darkwatch Recruiter, CoCo and Vessel of Nascency you should be able to dig deep into the deck.
The final surprise in this deck is the combo finisher with Shaman. When you have enough mana thanks to Cryptolith, you can use this card to surprise finish. When I imagine using it, it's with Always Watching out. Then I can declare the attack, adjust their life total and trample my way to victory. I have him in because he can pull double duty as early mana fixing and late combo finishing.
Interesting take...I do think you're going to have problems with only 18 lands and three colors, however...what if we just forwent red and when with green/white? We still have access to some good werewolves (or wolves), we have white for removal and anthems, and we can now run dromoka's command...I tried this deck and found arlinn kord to be a bit underwhelming...anyways...anyone ever considered this route?
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
I'm not a werewolf player, but I'd love to get in this discussion.
So, I skimmed through the thread, and I have to ask why not use Cryptolith Rite? It can be used to speed into the bigger, beefier howlers or it can be used to throw the smaller ones out even faster. Not to mention being a great way to feed Duskwatch Recruiter. This is the basis of something I might like.
All anthems. Even if you slow down a turn to play Cryptolith Rite, this deck is full of anthems to turn your weenies into beefies! I particularly like Always Watching for the way it interacts with Cryptolith.
It's true the deck is light on lands, but with the exception of Collected Company, the deck tops out at 3 mana. Cryptolith and even Shaman of Forgotten Ways can smooth out any mana issues.
Between Darkwatch Recruiter, CoCo and Vessel of Nascency you should be able to dig deep into the deck.
The final surprise in this deck is the combo finisher with Shaman. When you have enough mana thanks to Cryptolith, you can use this card to surprise finish. When I imagine using it, it's with Always Watching out. Then I can declare the attack, adjust their life total and trample my way to victory. I have him in because he can pull double duty as early mana fixing and late combo finishing.
I'm not a werewolf player, but I'd love to get in this discussion.
So, I skimmed through the thread, and I have to ask why not use Cryptolith Rite? It can be used to speed into the bigger, beefier howlers or it can be used to throw the smaller ones out even faster. Not to mention being a great way to feed Duskwatch Recruiter. This is the basis of something I might like.
All anthems. Even if you slow down a turn to play Cryptolith Rite, this deck is full of anthems to turn your weenies into beefies! I particularly like Always Watching for the way it interacts with Cryptolith.
It's true the deck is light on lands, but with the exception of Collected Company, the deck tops out at 3 mana. Cryptolith and even Shaman of Forgotten Ways can smooth out any mana issues.
Between Darkwatch Recruiter, CoCo and Vessel of Nascency you should be able to dig deep into the deck.
The final surprise in this deck is the combo finisher with Shaman. When you have enough mana thanks to Cryptolith, you can use this card to surprise finish. When I imagine using it, it's with Always Watching out. Then I can declare the attack, adjust their life total and trample my way to victory. I have him in because he can pull double duty as early mana fixing and late combo finishing.
Roast, Twin Bolt, and Fiery Impulse are all secondary to this. Lightning Axe puts you down a card. Fiery Temper is clunky. Sarkhan's Rage has been on my radar recently -- though it doesn't solve the problem of needing to nail a D-Command fighting one of your guys on turn 3-4.
I need more instant speed removal, specifically things I can cast on my opponent's turn. RG, basic build, nothing special. Any suggestions?
Edit: If you're having trouble interacting with other midrange/aggro decks, just try being bigger.
A little easier said than done sadly. I just don't like four drops in decks with no library manipulation. The increase in variance is rarely worth the potential payoff in my experience, (I just hate bad draws, 4 drops are great.)
I guess there are other ways of going bigger. Has any considered our old friend Infectious Bloodlust? With there being so few good removal spells in standard it sticks out more. Maybe even it's lesser known brother, Call of the Full Moon?
I never thought I would miss shock.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
I'm not a werewolf player, but I'd love to get in this discussion.
So, I skimmed through the thread, and I have to ask why not use Cryptolith Rite? It can be used to speed into the bigger, beefier howlers or it can be used to throw the smaller ones out even faster. Not to mention being a great way to feed Duskwatch Recruiter. This is the basis of something I might like.
All anthems. Even if you slow down a turn to play Cryptolith Rite, this deck is full of anthems to turn your weenies into beefies! I particularly like Always Watching for the way it interacts with Cryptolith.
It's true the deck is light on lands, but with the exception of Collected Company, the deck tops out at 3 mana. Cryptolith and even Shaman of Forgotten Ways can smooth out any mana issues.
Between Darkwatch Recruiter, CoCo and Vessel of Nascency you should be able to dig deep into the deck.
The final surprise in this deck is the combo finisher with Shaman. When you have enough mana thanks to Cryptolith, you can use this card to surprise finish. When I imagine using it, it's with Always Watching out. Then I can declare the attack, adjust their life total and trample my way to victory. I have him in because he can pull double duty as early mana fixing and late combo finishing.
I haven't put the cards together, but I have taken some simulated hands/draws through my Magic app, and the lands hasn't been a problem. I know 1 hand isn't a trend, but opening my app and doing 1 hand I get:
Turn 1: Game Trail (revealing forest), Village Messenger, attack for 1
Turn 2: Forest, Cryptolith Rite, Tap Village Messenger for 1 mana, Village Messenger, attack for 1 if there's no blocker
Turn 3: Battlefield Forge, (If still no blockers) Thalia's Lieutenant. If there are blockers, Duskwatch Recruiter and use the ability to sift the top 3
So with this draw I'm looking at 3 lands and 4 creatures on turn 4 which can either be used aggressively for damage or passively to get more creatures in hand and build towards using the Shaman of Forgotten ways. Which you bring up his 11 mana ability, that's not all that hard to achieve with Cryptolith and a high creature count. I'm already sitting at 7 mana and a way to spend it.
Now, I know it's not typical to draw 2 of the 4 1 drop creatures in the opening hand, and that's a place the deck could see change. Even though it's not a human or werewolf, I could see possibly adding in Cliffside Lookout as another 1 drop and another anthem, and mana outlet.
Either way, like I said in the original post, I think the low curve + Cryptolith Rite + Shaman of Forgotten Ways addresses the light land load. If you feel different, there're plenty of places you can cut to add in more lands. So far the deck is just theoretical, it's not at all set in stone.
I am curious about your opinion of Cryptolith Rite in the deck, though. I think it could be a real power boost for the deck. Especially when combined with Always Watching. It also gives the deck Turn 3 Collected Company which is nothing to sneeze at.
I guess there are other ways of going bigger. Has any considered our old friend Infectious Bloodlust? With there being so few good removal spells in standard it sticks out more. Maybe even it's lesser known brother, Call of the Full Moon?
I think Bloodlust is probably just SB material until exile takes a backseat.
Dromoka's Command being a usable card in Bant Company and GW Tokens also gives these ideas a hard time. If your meta is light on these decks, suiting Village Messenger up with a 2cmc enchanment is probably great.
On the budget forum, there's a UG Flash deck thread and a late iteration towards the end of the thread happens to be wolf/werewolf heavy. This is what they're currently running.
Keeping in mind it's a budget deck, it looks like it could be tweaked in a way that fits what we're looking for. By playing Flash creatures, we can in good conscience pass our turn to let our werewolves transform. Going to blue also adds in access to counterspells, bounce, card draw, and tapping blockers. Might not be a bad idea to go that way.
I guess there are other ways of going bigger. Has any considered our old friend Infectious Bloodlust? With there being so few good removal spells in standard it sticks out more. Maybe even it's lesser known brother, Call of the Full Moon?
I think Bloodlust is probably just SB material until exile takes a backseat.
Dromoka's Command being a usable card in Bant Company and GW Tokens also gives these ideas a hard time. If your meta is light on these decks, suiting Village Messenger up with a 2cmc enchanment is probably great.
I play a set of heirloom. It's been very good to me, often offering me a free win, but usually giving control of the board if nothing else. That and Moonlight Hunt are how I usually deal with humans game one, but I'd like more. Humans is so cheap and easy to build I see a lot of it. Just did another search, and maybe [card[Unnatural Aggression[/card]? Instant speed, fight for three. Pass turn to flip, then smite something with our now large creature. Beat D Command on the draw if you properly predict it as well. Obvious problem being that it's a semi-conditionl three mana removal spell.
I only play casually at FNM these days, so it really doesn't matter. I enjoy the design of the werewolf tribe, so I was hoping it could hold it's own.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Why is no one using Timberpack wolf at start it is just a 2/2 for 2. But it can pump itself upto 5/5 with all other 3 wolves on the play.
In my game I got an average of 2 timberpack which is a sweet 3/3 for 2mana. Give it a howlpack resurgence and a 4/4 with trample.
Its also very easy to swarm the board with a 2/2 wolf tokens.
And for RG werewolves, we still have atarka command for additional INSANE boost of dmg. We have collected company to fill up the board after mass removal.
I found what I believe is a sideboard gem for the R/G werewolf deck. It's a boardwipe that doesn't completely wipe all of your progress. Chandra's ignition. Yes, it's a sorcery, so not perfect. And yes, 5 mana is a lot, but this deck can keep the ground mucked up against other aggro decks, but we can't win those races, I don't believe. So we have to be somewhat conservative, and almost become the control in those matchups. So still keep a few copies of Kozilek's Return in the SB as well, but in those matches where their aggro board has been Nissa'd or Always Watching'd a few times, and I believe Ignition just fits the bill better there. It's kind of amazing against Company decks.
I've been playing this tribe for a little while now. We need another turn 1 threat, and a quality instant speed burn spell. Every deck here is just finding ways to patch those problems, but it isn't enough.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Standard: Larkblue's Competitive Mono Red Aggro
Just to let you know that as a brewer of the old Jund Werewolf deck that got to tier 1 back in the first Innistrad extension, I am still very determined to help you brew the deck to top levels. I did that already with Slivers (thanks to the clever addition of Athreos in an otherwise mono Slivers deck), and just succeeded again with Allies, winning the first place (7-0-0) in the Super Sunday Series at Grand Prix Toronto 2016 (100+ players, single Elimination) :
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/692552-primer-rabzan-ally-1st-at-sss-gp-toronto
But... Despite your enthusiasm with the tribe, I think you really should wait for the next extension before investing more time and money in an incomplete tribe (just remember what Wolfir Avenger did to the deck when Avacyn was released). When the next set will be released, it is a lot more likely that we will be able to put together a tier 1 Werewolf deck. Until then, I don't think the deck can win more than 50% of the games in the current meta. 2-2 may get you in the top 8 of a 15 players FNM, but myself, I would aim at 4-0 and no less than 3-1. I know I will fail at first (as I did with Werewolves, Slivers and Allies before brewing the best tribal deck in the meta), but with time, Werewolves will shine. Don't lose hope, but be patient!
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
4 Hinterland Logger
4 Lambholt Pacifist
3 Geier Reach Bandit
3 Hermit of the Natterknolls
4 Blisterpod
4 Atarka's Command
4 Swell of Growth
4 Neglected Heirloom
4 Collected Company
14 Forest
4 Cinder Glade
4 Game Trail
Being an aggro deck, stacking the pump+land drop spells seems to have a good synergy, why not go full speed on the floor.
4x Village Messenger
2x Zurgo Bellstriker
4x Kessig Forgemaster
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Dragon Whisperer
4x Geier Reach Bandit
2x Breakneck Rider
3x Akoum Firebird
3x Arlinn Kord
Instants and Sorceries: (6)
4x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Rush of Adrenaline
Lands: (24)
4x Cinder Glade
4x Game Trail
1x Timber Gorge
10x Mountain
5x Forest
2x Twin Bolt
3x Rending Volley
1x Naturalize
1x Clip Wings
2x Ulvenwald Mysteries
2x Act of Treason
2x Goblin War Paint
2x Goldnight Castigator
Where we are as of 5/2.
Deck has much better mana dumps now.
Deck is usually RG Stompy but we live in a world with Hangarback Walker and Avacyn, so you have to know when to pump the brakes. Sometimes your clock just isn't fast enough. Here, evasion and mana dumps are key. Evasion puts you over board stalls (some decks in the format are actually engineered to achieve board stalls -- then push over the top with walkers. Imagine that!) Mana dumps allow you to go over the top of other board stall decks.
6 Forest
9 Mountain
4 Game Trail
4 Cinder Glade
Creatures
4 Village Messenger
2 Kessig Forgemaster
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Silverfur Partisan
3 Scourge Wolf
4 Geier Reach Bandit
4 Ember-Eye Wolf
2 pack guardian
2 breakneckrider
Planeswalker
2 Arlinn Kord
Enchantment
3 Howlpack Resurgence
Instants
3 Atarka's command
2 Collected Company
I just added two PG and with 27 creatures CoCo hits more than wiffs. I did notice if I pass a turn to flip my creatures then I give the momentum to my opponent which gives them the chance to mount an offense instead of dealing with my growing board presence. So to flip my wolves I wait for them to not cast any spells. when i side board CoCo leaves a couple of wolves leave and i bring in act of treason, moonlight hunt, clip wings
Oath of Nissa is tempo negative if you're playing 1 drops. You can just run more threats.
Oath is fine when you're running a bunch of tokens and look for specific walkers to push damage through. Less good when you're playing a bunch of grizzly bears.
So, I skimmed through the thread, and I have to ask why not use Cryptolith Rite? It can be used to speed into the bigger, beefier howlers or it can be used to throw the smaller ones out even faster. Not to mention being a great way to feed Duskwatch Recruiter. This is the basis of something I might like.
4 Kessig Forgemaster
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Lambholt Pacifist
4 Village Messenger
3 Breakneck Rider
3 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Collected Company
Enchantments 12
3 Always Watching
4 Cryptolith Rite
2 Howlpack Resurgence
3 Vessel of Nascency
18 Lands
All anthems. Even if you slow down a turn to play Cryptolith Rite, this deck is full of anthems to turn your weenies into beefies! I particularly like Always Watching for the way it interacts with Cryptolith.
It's true the deck is light on lands, but with the exception of Collected Company, the deck tops out at 3 mana. Cryptolith and even Shaman of Forgotten Ways can smooth out any mana issues.
Between Darkwatch Recruiter, CoCo and Vessel of Nascency you should be able to dig deep into the deck.
The final surprise in this deck is the combo finisher with Shaman. When you have enough mana thanks to Cryptolith, you can use this card to surprise finish. When I imagine using it, it's with Always Watching out. Then I can declare the attack, adjust their life total and trample my way to victory. I have him in because he can pull double duty as early mana fixing and late combo finishing.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Shaman of Forgotten Ways activation is 11 mana.
That's not feasible.
Nor is 18 lands.
anything is possible to them who believe
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
They're mostly bad.
My impressions are such:
Exquisite Firecraft is clunky but it's the best at being flexible at:
Nuking Gideon.
Nuking Nissa.
Nuking Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet.
Nuking your opponent's face.
Roast, Twin Bolt, and Fiery Impulse are all secondary to this. Lightning Axe puts you down a card. Fiery Temper is clunky. Sarkhan's Rage has been on my radar recently -- though it doesn't solve the problem of needing to nail a D-Command fighting one of your guys on turn 3-4.
If you want to work in Thunderbreak Regents, Draconic Roar is a good card.
Edit: If you're having trouble interacting with other midrange/aggro decks, just try being bigger.
A little easier said than done sadly. I just don't like four drops in decks with no library manipulation. The increase in variance is rarely worth the potential payoff in my experience, (I just hate bad draws, 4 drops are great.)
I guess there are other ways of going bigger. Has any considered our old friend Infectious Bloodlust? With there being so few good removal spells in standard it sticks out more. Maybe even it's lesser known brother, Call of the Full Moon?
I never thought I would miss shock.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
2 Village Messenger
1 Forest
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Thalia's Lieutenant
1 Cryptolith Rite
1 Game Trail
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Turn 3
1 Battlefield Forge
Turn 4
1 Lambholt Pacifist
Turn 1: Game Trail (revealing forest), Village Messenger, attack for 1
Turn 2: Forest, Cryptolith Rite, Tap Village Messenger for 1 mana, Village Messenger, attack for 1 if there's no blocker
Turn 3: Battlefield Forge, (If still no blockers) Thalia's Lieutenant. If there are blockers, Duskwatch Recruiter and use the ability to sift the top 3
So with this draw I'm looking at 3 lands and 4 creatures on turn 4 which can either be used aggressively for damage or passively to get more creatures in hand and build towards using the Shaman of Forgotten ways. Which you bring up his 11 mana ability, that's not all that hard to achieve with Cryptolith and a high creature count. I'm already sitting at 7 mana and a way to spend it.
Now, I know it's not typical to draw 2 of the 4 1 drop creatures in the opening hand, and that's a place the deck could see change. Even though it's not a human or werewolf, I could see possibly adding in Cliffside Lookout as another 1 drop and another anthem, and mana outlet.
Either way, like I said in the original post, I think the low curve + Cryptolith Rite + Shaman of Forgotten Ways addresses the light land load. If you feel different, there're plenty of places you can cut to add in more lands. So far the deck is just theoretical, it's not at all set in stone.
I am curious about your opinion of Cryptolith Rite in the deck, though. I think it could be a real power boost for the deck. Especially when combined with Always Watching. It also gives the deck Turn 3 Collected Company which is nothing to sneeze at.
If you don't get salty when your opponent uses Declaration in Stone on your Infectious Bloodlusted creature then good on you.
I think Bloodlust is probably just SB material until exile takes a backseat.
Dromoka's Command being a usable card in Bant Company and GW Tokens also gives these ideas a hard time. If your meta is light on these decks, suiting Village Messenger up with a 2cmc enchanment is probably great.
Have you thought about Neglected Heirloom?
4x Duskwatch Recruiter
2x Lambholt Pacifist
4x Dimensional Infiltrator
4x Rattlechains
4x Bounding Krasis
4x Pack Guardian
3x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
7x Forest
6x Island
4x Lumbering Falls
4x Woodland Stream
4x Yavimaya Coast
Instant (10)
4x Clash of Wills
3x Disperse
3x Turn to Frog
3x Clip Wings
2x Displacement Wave
2x Natural State
2x Negate
2x Profaner of the Dead
2x Pulse of Murasa
1x ????
1x ????
Keeping in mind it's a budget deck, it looks like it could be tweaked in a way that fits what we're looking for. By playing Flash creatures, we can in good conscience pass our turn to let our werewolves transform. Going to blue also adds in access to counterspells, bounce, card draw, and tapping blockers. Might not be a bad idea to go that way.
I play a set of heirloom. It's been very good to me, often offering me a free win, but usually giving control of the board if nothing else. That and Moonlight Hunt are how I usually deal with humans game one, but I'd like more. Humans is so cheap and easy to build I see a lot of it. Just did another search, and maybe [card[Unnatural Aggression[/card]? Instant speed, fight for three. Pass turn to flip, then smite something with our now large creature. Beat D Command on the draw if you properly predict it as well. Obvious problem being that it's a semi-conditionl three mana removal spell.
I only play casually at FNM these days, so it really doesn't matter. I enjoy the design of the werewolf tribe, so I was hoping it could hold it's own.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
In my game I got an average of 2 timberpack which is a sweet 3/3 for 2mana. Give it a howlpack resurgence and a 4/4 with trample.
Its also very easy to swarm the board with a 2/2 wolf tokens.
And for RG werewolves, we still have atarka command for additional INSANE boost of dmg. We have collected company to fill up the board after mass removal.
4x Village Messenger
4x Dragon Whisperer
4x Scourge Wolf
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Geier Reach Bandit
2x Breakneck Rider
3x Akoum Firebird
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Arlinn Kord
Instants and Sorceries: (7)
4x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Rush of Adrenaline
1x Roast
Lands: (24)
4x Cinder Glade
4x Game Trail
1x Evolving Wilds
5x Forest
10x Mountain
1x Roast
3x Rending Volley
2x Act of Treason
2x Clip Wings
1x Naturalize
2x Neglected Heirloom
2x Den Protector
2x Silverfur Partisan
5/7
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)