vs. Monsters
-2 Bident of Thassa
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
+2 Rapid Hybridization
+1 Cyclonic Rift
I agree with most of your sideboard plans but I was wondering about your plan vs monsters. I haven't yet tried the syncopates main and have been playing 3 rapids 2 rifts 2 bident 1 jace main as my non-creatures. Typically in RG I don't find bident to be bad since we need to make up for the card advantage they gain with Domri / courser, so I tend to not cut it at all or just cut 1. What I do cut is Jace and Judge's Familiar (since it cannot block dragon) and board in 2 negate and curse of the swine. Since you have syncopates main I guess that plays the role of negate to counter their overloaded mortars, but do you really find bident to be that bad against them? They don't typically have much in the way of reach creatures to block our fliers.
I'm not sure Negate is good against Monsters, because most of their threats are creatures. It does counter Dormi Rade, which is nice, but I think it will be a dead card in many matches against Monsters (which we win by smothering them in CA anyway). Syncopate is much better in that matchup. As for keeping in Bident, I think it's a decent strategy, as most games against them I win by pushing aggro across and taking out bident is better for a game plan in which we're leaving most of our creatures back to block, which isn't monsters. I tend to only side out Jaces and as many Judge's Familiars as needed against them.
Also, I really like the idea of Jace, Memory Adept in the sideboard for control. If you can mill out their Elixir of Immortality, Jace basically wins you the game against them (so long as you get it out before they stick an AEtherling and can kill it easily).
Jace seems like he would be good versus control, but he also just dies to d-sphere, and then the 0 did you nothing...
Not quite nothing - taking out a sixth of their library can put pressure on them and force them to be careful with Sphinx's Revelations, and as I said if you mill out (or they're not playing) Elixir of Immortality, those decks tend to be very low on win-cons and it's very possible to simply deprive them of their win condition. And you saying that it dies to D-sphere is like saying Tarmagoyf is bad because it dies to Doom Blade - IF they have D-sphere, then you've gotten rid of their D-sphere and milled them for 10, so that's plenty of value from Jace. And Jace dodges most non-D-sphere removal. And it's not like they'd be turned off otherwise - they can simply use D-sphere on something else. So all in all, Big Jace does quite a bit vs control.
EDIT: Using Holiday's list in testing, has been VERY good right now. Very happy with the current list, and will be playing this version for a little while.
If you wanna play mono-blue, I would recommend this.
Basically its the same list except its -2 Syncopate, +1 Nykthos +1 Rapid, and -1 Jace +1 Domestication
His reasoning is as follows (im assuming). Having access to a land thats a spell is sometimes relevant, and having access to Nykthos sometimes just gives you free wins. Its honestly either that or another Rapid/Counterspell main, and the counterspell is good however not as a 1 of. In all honesty its either 2 Counters, 4 Rapids, or 1 Rapid 1 Nykthos. Thats what those flex slots belong to.
As for the Jace vs. Domestication, you are already badly matched up vs. Control. Might as well run a better card vs. Mono-Black, Aggro, and a card that is better than Jace vs Monsters (Marginally, but it is better). It makes sense, and after seeing a list and following the reasoning (He didnt personally tell me this, but I'm assuming this is the case), it makes perfect sense.
Sideboard plans:
vs. Control
-1 Domestication
-3 Rapid Hybridization
-4 Cloudfin Raptor
-4 Master of Waves
+2 Jace, Memory Adept
+2 Negate
+2 Dispel
+2 Dissolve
+3 Gainsay
+1 Prognostic Sphinx
vs. Monsters
-2 Bident of Thassa
+1 Rapid Hybridization
+1 Cyclonic Rift
vs. Mirror
-4 Frostburn Weird
-4 Judge's Familiar
+2 Dispel
+1 Prognostic Sphinx
+1 Domestication
+1 Rapid Hybridization
+3 Gainsay
(could also see adding the cyclonic rift, not sure yet)
vs. Mono-Black
-1 Tidebinder Mage
-1 Master of Waves
-1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
+1 Cyclonic Rift
+1 Prognostic Sphinx
+1 Domestication
(has VASTLY improved the matchup)
vs. Black/White (no Brimaz)
Needs Testing
Needs Testing
vs. Black/Red (E-Fro list)
Needs Testing
Needs Testing
vs Hexproof
-2 Bident of Thassa
-3 Rapid Hybridization
+2 Negate
+2 Dissolve
+1 Cyclonic Rift
vs. White Aggro
-2 Bident of Thassa
+1 Domestication
+1 Rapid Hybridization
vs. Creature Mono-Red
-2 Bident of Thassa
-1 Cyclonic Rift
+1 Domestication
+1 Rapid Hybridization
+1 Prognostic Sphinx
vs. Mono-Black Aggro
-2 Bident of Thassa
-1 Cyclonic Rift
+1 Rapid Hybridization
+1 Domestication
+1 Prognostic Sphinx
(havent played this matchup much, seems good in theory)
vs. GB Dredge
-2 Bident of Thassa
-1 Domestication
+1 Rapid Hybridization
+2 Dissolve
Current Testing Results:
vs. Mono-Black Game 1: 7-1
vs. Mono-Black Postboard: 4-2
How is zero Jace AOTs working for you, DXI? I'm still attached to him, but his best matchups - creature-based aggro - are the ones we're already very good against, so I can see how taking him out entirely could be helpful. Still, he just provides so much value that I can't see dumping him entirely. As you said, our worst matchup is control, and while Jace isn't the best against control, he's certainly better than Domestication, as at least he can -2 twice to keep our hand stocked.
How is zero Jace AOTs working for you, DXI? I'm still attached to him, but his best matchups - creature-based aggro - are the ones we're already very good against, so I can see how taking him out entirely could be helpful. Still, he just provides so much value that I can't see dumping him entirely. As you said, our worst matchup is control, and while Jace isn't the best against control, he's certainly better than Domestication, as at least he can -2 twice to keep our hand stocked.
Jace MA and Prognostic sphinx with counter back up are good enough threats against control. When we tap AND are able to jam a spell, we want it to be a good one. Not something that can simply give us 2 lands and a crappy creature and then wait to die etc. As valuable as card advantage is when we put no pressure on control it's a lot easier for that card advantage to be negligible because the raw power of their cards trumps like 90% of the cards in our deck. You can be up a card or two but those cards can easily be a land and a judge's familiar or what have you.
Jace seems like he would be good versus control, but he also just dies to d-sphere, and then the 0 did you nothing...
Generally when you land a Jace, MA. You more often then not ALWAYS +1 first to draw a card so if they do have a sphere, you didn't lose CA or go neutral. And then if you get to untap with it you can protect it and mill away without having to commit to the board and having counter back up etc.
Yeah, I was thinking more about in game 1, before Jace MA and Sphinx are a factor. Domestication is entirely dead, Jace AOT is at least not that. Both are automatic side-outs vs control, obviously, but at least Jace does something. Including, by the way, being a devotion source that survives Verdict.
Jace seems like he would be good versus control, but he also just dies to d-sphere, and then the 0 did you nothing...
Generally when you land a Jace, MA. You more often then not ALWAYS +1 first to draw a card so if they do have a sphere, you didn't lose CA or go neutral. And then if you get to untap with it you can protect it and mill away without having to commit to the board and having counter back up etc.
Really?
If i tap out and have no mana up and have no other threats, then I plus. Most of the time I go to the 0 plan just because most of the control decks I'm playing against have Archangel in them.
Now that Journey Into Nyx has been fully spoiled and we can talk about it, what new cards do you think we get? I don't think we got a whole lot:
Dictate of Kruphix: This is the card most likely to see play. It's a Howling Mine on a flashy, 2 devotion enchantment. The symmetry is broken in our favor so I think this is a solid card especially in the matchups where Bident of Thassa isn't likely to be giving us cards, though it certainly isn't a must play or a format definer.
Hypnotic Siren: 1 mana flyers are a big part of our deck. I think the common ones, Cloudfin Raptor and Judge's Familiar, are both better than Siren, but comparing it to Galerider Sliver, which some lists are playing as one-ofs, it might be better. Sliver offers the upside of flying Mutavaults, while this offers the upside of potentially stealing a creature later in the game. I think Galerider is probably better, and I think that I'd run 4 Raptors and 4 Familiars before I'd run one Siren, but it's an interesting card nonetheless.
Dakra Mystic: Instead of flying, this one drop could potentially draw some cards. If it didn't cost one mana to use every time, it might be worth playing. As it is, though, it simply slows us down too much. As well, it provides no actual card advantage except for the advantage of always getting the better end of the 1 for 1 deal.
Polymorphous Rush: This is a neat little combat trick that really only has one solid target in our deck: Master of Waves. Turning two of our own guys into Master clones and pumping our elementals is a play that can steal wins. If an opponent waits to remove Master with instant-speed removal, casting this can keep your elementals alive for one attack, which can turn the game. Alternately, you can turn your creatures into copies of opposing fatties to sneak that extra damage past. It seems to be too conditional to me, but we'll see if it sees play at all.
Hour of Need: The other strive card that might see play in mono-blue. Turning your dudes into sphinxes gives us some resiliency against control or mono-black, but it doesn't help against a Verdict and it seems too mana-intensive to be any good to me.
Battlefield Thaumaturge: Doesn't seem great to me, but if you're playing the previous two cards he might help you out. Also, he makes Cyclonic Rift slightly cheaper if you're not overloading, which is a thing I guess. I highly doubt he'll be played in anything but a deck centered around him, which would not be MUD.
Keranos, God of Storms/Kruphix, God of Horizons: Keranos might be worth the splash, but there isn't anything else red worth playing. Kruphix is garbage in MUD, though I'm already making a homebrew RUG Kruphix/Prophet of Kruphix/Volcanic Geyser deck, which is going to be so cool and so much mana and he's so great for EDH and his art is so awesome- AHEM, excuse me. Garbage.
I think the only card of these that will see mainboard play is Dictate of Kruphix. U/w players did get a neat piece of SB tech in Deicide. While we didn't get much help, we did get some meta help. Decks built around Athreos, God of Passage are probably going to take a big bite out of control, while being very winnable matchups for us and our plethora of 2/3s that block their 2/1s and 2/2s all day. We do need to watch out for Eidolon of Blossoms decks, though - they can out CA us, and a Sphere of Safety with multiple enchantments on the field can be GG.
Yeah, that's probably one I missed. It isn't quite as good with master as you think, because unless we have 7 mana up, they won't let us attack with elementals, which means they'll have removal up the next turn (so it isn't likely to save your elemental tokens). (or, of course, just play it t3 and then Master t4, but then you would be getting many elementals...) The main problem with it is that it's a 3 drop that adds absolutely no devotion. It might be worth running one, but I can't see running more than that.
I think as a deck, blue devotion needs a way to rely a little less on Thassa due to all the god hate in Journey. I really like Hall of Triumph here for that reason. 2 copies seems like big game when white decks are gripping Deicide while a Master with 3-4 tokens sits across the board. Last Breath is turned off for the most part with a Hall on board.
A card I would like to discuss is Thassa's Ire. It can provide a buffer against creatures, especially Aetherling which is how I lost g2 and 3 recently against U/W control. It's obviously bad against aggro but against other midrange decks, it's not bad after attrition battles. Plus, it provides a bit of devotion. Just food for though.
Not gonna lie, Hour of Need feels like big game for us. A 4/4 flier at instant speed is nothing to scoff at and using this in response to removal seems backbreaking. Off of Nykthos, it feels unfair. In the most desperate situations, it can be used as a bad removal spell and can still be ignored by Thassa.
I think as a deck, blue devotion needs a way to rely a little less on Thassa due to all the god hate in Journey. I really like Hall of Triumph here for that reason. 2 copies seems like big game when white decks are gripping Deicide while a Master with 3-4 tokens sits across the board. Last Breath is turned off for the most part with a Hall on board.
A card I would like to discuss is Thassa's Ire. It can provide a buffer against creatures, especially Aetherling which is how I lost g2 and 3 recently against U/W control. It's obviously bad against aggro but against other midrange decks, it's not bad after attrition battles. Plus, it provides a bit of devotion. Just food for though.
Not gonna lie, Hour of Need feels like big game for us. A 4/4 flier at instant speed is nothing to scoff at and using this in response to removal seems backbreaking. Off of Nykthos, it feels unfair. In the most desperate situations, it can be used as a bad removal spell and can still be ignored by Thassa.
Thassa's Ire seems really good against AEtherling and really bad against, well, everything else. Against mono-black, the only creature worth tapping down is Desecration Demon, which we can usually do anyway with Master tokens or cheap fliers. As for control, I can count the games I've lost to AEtherling on one hand. I lose much more often to Elspeth than AEtherling.
I'm still unsure about Hour of Need. I've tested it in the sideboard vs removal-heavy decks (only on cockatrice) but haven't yet actually cast it yet. I feel like it might be worth playing, especially since it can also be used in desperation as spot removal, making it more versatile, and this deck lives on versatile, high-value cards.
Now that Journey Into Nyx has been fully spoiled and we can talk about it, what new cards do you think we get? I don't think we got a whole lot:
Dictate of Kruphix: This is the card most likely to see play. It's a Howling Mine on a flashy, 2 devotion enchantment. The symmetry is broken in our favor so I think this is a solid card especially in the matchups where Bident of Thassa isn't likely to be giving us cards, though it certainly isn't a must play or a format definer.
Hypnotic Siren: 1 mana flyers are a big part of our deck. I think the common ones, Cloudfin Raptor and Judge's Familiar, are both better than Siren, but comparing it to Galerider Sliver, which some lists are playing as one-ofs, it might be better. Sliver offers the upside of flying Mutavaults, while this offers the upside of potentially stealing a creature later in the game. I think Galerider is probably better, and I think that I'd run 4 Raptors and 4 Familiars before I'd run one Siren, but it's an interesting card nonetheless.
Dakra Mystic: Instead of flying, this one drop could potentially draw some cards. If it didn't cost one mana to use every time, it might be worth playing. As it is, though, it simply slows us down too much. As well, it provides no actual card advantage except for the advantage of always getting the better end of the 1 for 1 deal.
Polymorphous Rush: This is a neat little combat trick that really only has one solid target in our deck: Master of Waves. Turning two of our own guys into Master clones and pumping our elementals is a play that can steal wins. If an opponent waits to remove Master with instant-speed removal, casting this can keep your elementals alive for one attack, which can turn the game. Alternately, you can turn your creatures into copies of opposing fatties to sneak that extra damage past. It seems to be too conditional to me, but we'll see if it sees play at all.
Hour of Need: The other strive card that might see play in mono-blue. Turning your dudes into sphinxes gives us some resiliency against control or mono-black, but it doesn't help against a Verdict and it seems too mana-intensive to be any good to me.
Battlefield Thaumaturge: Doesn't seem great to me, but if you're playing the previous two cards he might help you out. Also, he makes Cyclonic Rift slightly cheaper if you're not overloading, which is a thing I guess. I highly doubt he'll be played in anything but a deck centered around him, which would not be MUD.
Keranos, God of Storms/Kruphix, God of Horizons: Keranos might be worth the splash, but there isn't anything else red worth playing. Kruphix is garbage in MUD, though I'm already making a homebrew RUG Kruphix/Prophet of Kruphix/Volcanic Geyser deck, which is going to be so cool and so much mana and he's so great for EDH and his art is so awesome- AHEM, excuse me. Garbage.
I think the only card of these that will see mainboard play is Dictate of Kruphix. U/w players did get a neat piece of SB tech in Deicide. While we didn't get much help, we did get some meta help. Decks built around Athreos, God of Passage are probably going to take a big bite out of control, while being very winnable matchups for us and our plethora of 2/3s that block their 2/1s and 2/2s all day. We do need to watch out for Eidolon of Blossoms decks, though - they can out CA us, and a Sphere of Safety with multiple enchantments on the field can be GG.
Agree with all of this, although I want to try 1 Siren for 1 Cloudfin Raptor, as I hate top-decking a Raptor late game. Mostly useless.
Could Dictate replace the Bident? It does cost 1 less and doesn't require us to deal damage.
I don't think Dictate is a Bident replacement, because it's symmetrical and only gives us one card per turn. Bident is great because it turns any creature into a threat and because it can lead to blowouts, Dictate does neither of these things. I don't think Bident needs to be, or should be, replaced - it makes me happy almost every time I see one (except for against super-fast aggro). Dictate is only better in matchups where we're less likely to be drawing cards with Bident. Agree about Hall of Triumph, though I don't think we can safely run any more than 1 or maaaaaaaaybe 2. The main thing it's good for is letting Master's tokens survive by themselves.
vs Control:
+2 Ætherling
+1 Hall of Triumph
+1 Dispel
+3 Gainsay
+2 Negate
-4 Tidebinder Mage
-3 Cloudfin Raptor
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
-1 Cyclonic Rift
vs Mono-Black:
+2 Domestication
+1 Hall of Triumph
+1 Dispel
+2 Negate
+1 Rapid Hybridization
-4 Tidebinder Mage
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
-2 Cloudfin Raptor
vs Aggro:
+1 Dictate of Kruphix
+2 Domestication
+1 Hall of Triumph
+2 Jace, Architect of Thought
-4 Tidebinder Mage (if not Red or Green)
-4 Judge's Familiar (if Red or Green)
-2 Rapid Hybridization
vs RG Monsters:
+2 Domestication
+2 Negate
+1 Rapid Hybridization
-3 Judge's Familiar
-1 Hall of Triumph
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
vs Boros Burn:
+2 Domestication
+1 Dispel
+2 Jace, Architect of Thought
-4 Cloudfin Raptor
-1 Hall of Triumph
vs Enchantments:
+2 Domestication
+2 Negate
+1 Dictate of Kruphix
-2 Bident of Thassa
-3 Judge's Familiar
vs Mirror:
+2 Domestication
+3 Gainsay
+2 Jace, Architect of Thought
+1 Hall of Triumph
-4 Judge's Familiar
-4 Tidebinder Mage
I think the biggest thing we get in JOU is, somewhat ironically, Athreos, God of Passage. We can handle Athreos decks, while they'll take a big chunk out of control, our worst MU. I'm very scared of things like Master of the Feast, though.
You're probably right about Dictate against aggro - I really can't think of any matchup where it's that good - but I do think I want Hall of Triumph in that matchup. We still run 24 creatures against aggro, and while Hall doesn't do anything by itself to defend us, it does make pretty much all of our dudes bigger than their dudes, so instead of trading or just blocking with no one dying with Frostburn, we can really start killing their little guys with whatever creature we happen to have. I'd certainly rather have it in the deck than an extra bear or 1/1 flyer. As for mono-black, the main reason I like Hall vs them is that when they can't remove his tokens, casting Master of Waves for any amount more than, say, 3 is GG since they have nothing which can get past him (plentiful tokens to sac to Desecration Demon, and the rest of their attackers are ground forces) unless they start running Master of the Feast. Given the amount of removal they pack vs us, Hall is excellent in keeping Master's tokens alive, and while it really doesn't do much else for us against MBC, that might be enough. I may be giving it too much credit because it literally won me a game like that in playtesting.
It does sound good in theory, so maybe I'm also wrong about that.
But I always also consider the worst case scenario which would be the point where we have a Hall of Triumph already and draw another one.
Mono Black doesn't have anything to remove the Hall, so the second one will simply get stuck in our hand - and I don't think we can afford to have a dead card in our hand (which might already happen with multiple Thassas against MBD).
I have to test it though once the new set is out. Maybe the advantages of more reliably drawing Hall of Triumph outweighs the danger to draw two of them.
We have 4 Thassa's which MBD cannot deal with either. Quite often I'll get another one in my hand. It's unfortunate, but it happens.
Also, the Hall would only be a 1-of. MAYBE 2, as we've said before (not trying to sound snarky, just reassuring you that we aren't trying to screw up an already good deck ). I would personally only run 1. I don't think we have that many flexible slots in the build.
We have 4 Thassa's which MBD cannot deal with either. Quite often I'll get another one in my hand. It's unfortunate, but it happens.
Also, the Hall would only be a 1-of. MAYBE 2, as we've said before (not trying to sound snarky, just reassuring you that we aren't trying to screw up an already good deck ). I would personally only run 1. I don't think we have that many flexible slots in the build.
Yeah, that's what I meant. We already have 4 Thassas and it already sometimes happens that one of her is on the board while one is in our hand. I'm not sure if we want the risk of that also happening with Hall of Triumpf (more potential death draw is bad).
That's why I'd rather test out the Hall as a 1-of and am not sure if it's worth boarding in a second one, as CardGamesOnMotorcycles suggested.
But maybe boarding another one increases our chances of winning, so... yeah, have to test it out.
I'm also slightly worried that we don't really get (or at least it seems that way) any particularly meaningful new cards. It does save us some money I guess since there aren't many expensive cards to get from the new set, but it feels like other decks get cards to improve while we stay more or less the same.
You could go the UW route and add Mana Confluence to quicken the deck. I believe that was the major drawback for splashing white: tempo loss. I consistently beat my friend with mono blue while he played the splash version. I was just always a turn ahead of him.
You could go the UW route and add Mana Confluence to quicken the deck. I believe that was the major drawback for splashing white: tempo loss. I consistently beat my friend with mono blue while he played the splash version. I was just always a turn ahead of him.
Actually, I am playing the Uw Devotion variant (so Mana Confluence is definitely one of the few cards I'd like to have from Journey into Nyx), but so far I didn't have any trouble against pure Mono Blue Devotion decks.
Scrylands might cause a tempo loss, but then again, it's not like Mono Blue always curves out perfectly, so it all depends on what both draw.
What exactly did your friend add for Uw though, if I might ask? As for me, it's just a set of both Shocklands and Scrylands, a playset of Detention Sphere and a single Ephara. I think this way the core of Mono Blue stays just the same, but the Detention Spheres provide a good way to get troublesome cards off the board, add a bit of devotion and punish for example MBD for a Pack Rat-heavy play.
He was running 3 Ephara, but the rest was the same. Maybe he just had bad draws/I curved out well every time. It just seemed a bit slower every game.
Anyway, I'm curious as to how many Mana Confluences you are planning on running, and if they will replace any of the other lands?
I think the biggest thing we get in JOU is, somewhat ironically, Athreos, God of Passage. We can handle Athreos decks, while they'll take a big chunk out of control, our worst MU. I'm very scared of things like Master of the Feast, though.
Master of the Feast is scary but if that card ever becomes popular, we dust out Claustrophobia and make the game real awkward for the opponent when the stars align.
Against white aggro, I feel as though siding out two Thassa is a thing that will be happening soon. Then again, I still plan on playing with U/w Devotion and bringing in a playset of Glare of Heresy for those matchups because people place way too much faith in their new O-Ring and the other shiny new white cards.
You'd side out Thassa against them? I'm not as sure about that, as an active Thassa is very tough to deal with for them (They might bring in Deicide postboard but it's worth the risk) and one thing they might do is hold back to try and force favorable trades with Xathrid Necromancer or Athreos, and Thassa can help break through that. Why would you side her out?
Anyway, I'm starting to think that post-JOU, U/w will be the better (and more popular) build. Mana Confluence helps it a lot, and it actually gets at least one new card from JOU for the sideboard (Deicide). One interesting thing about Mana Confluence is that it makes casting things off Nightveil Specter a lot easier, so now you don't have to connect at least twice and pick up a land to steal cards from them!
My Sideboard plan is a bit more unclear since I haven't playtested this yet. I'll probably change some things up, get some testing in, and see how it goes.
I think I would. Not all of them but at least one or two copies. I think you would be able to find better cards for the matchup than the fourth or even the third Thassa. Even the most aggressive decks bring removal in against U-Devotion so Thassa won't be as active as you'd wish and softening the blow from Deicide is a plan.
Thassa stays in against white midrange but I'm willing to remove a copy or two in white aggressive matchups. I have to see how bad losing the most powerful cards in your deck is during a game. Lobotomy-effects tend to increase the amount of lands you draw and losing Thassa prevents you from scrying away lands in the mid-to-late game. This is the main reason why I like 2 Hall of Triumph so much since it makes your creatures less embarrassing and turns Master into a robust threat.
I'm not sure Negate is good against Monsters, because most of their threats are creatures. It does counter Dormi Rade, which is nice, but I think it will be a dead card in many matches against Monsters (which we win by smothering them in CA anyway). Syncopate is much better in that matchup. As for keeping in Bident, I think it's a decent strategy, as most games against them I win by pushing aggro across and taking out bident is better for a game plan in which we're leaving most of our creatures back to block, which isn't monsters. I tend to only side out Jaces and as many Judge's Familiars as needed against them.
Also, I really like the idea of Jace, Memory Adept in the sideboard for control. If you can mill out their Elixir of Immortality, Jace basically wins you the game against them (so long as you get it out before they stick an AEtherling and can kill it easily).
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Not quite nothing - taking out a sixth of their library can put pressure on them and force them to be careful with Sphinx's Revelations, and as I said if you mill out (or they're not playing) Elixir of Immortality, those decks tend to be very low on win-cons and it's very possible to simply deprive them of their win condition. And you saying that it dies to D-sphere is like saying Tarmagoyf is bad because it dies to Doom Blade - IF they have D-sphere, then you've gotten rid of their D-sphere and milled them for 10, so that's plenty of value from Jace. And Jace dodges most non-D-sphere removal. And it's not like they'd be turned off otherwise - they can simply use D-sphere on something else. So all in all, Big Jace does quite a bit vs control.
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Update, read above as it has changed
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Jace MA and Prognostic sphinx with counter back up are good enough threats against control. When we tap AND are able to jam a spell, we want it to be a good one. Not something that can simply give us 2 lands and a crappy creature and then wait to die etc. As valuable as card advantage is when we put no pressure on control it's a lot easier for that card advantage to be negligible because the raw power of their cards trumps like 90% of the cards in our deck. You can be up a card or two but those cards can easily be a land and a judge's familiar or what have you.
Generally when you land a Jace, MA. You more often then not ALWAYS +1 first to draw a card so if they do have a sphere, you didn't lose CA or go neutral. And then if you get to untap with it you can protect it and mill away without having to commit to the board and having counter back up etc.
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Really?
If i tap out and have no mana up and have no other threats, then I plus. Most of the time I go to the 0 plan just because most of the control decks I'm playing against have Archangel in them.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Dictate of Kruphix: This is the card most likely to see play. It's a Howling Mine on a flashy, 2 devotion enchantment. The symmetry is broken in our favor so I think this is a solid card especially in the matchups where Bident of Thassa isn't likely to be giving us cards, though it certainly isn't a must play or a format definer.
Hypnotic Siren: 1 mana flyers are a big part of our deck. I think the common ones, Cloudfin Raptor and Judge's Familiar, are both better than Siren, but comparing it to Galerider Sliver, which some lists are playing as one-ofs, it might be better. Sliver offers the upside of flying Mutavaults, while this offers the upside of potentially stealing a creature later in the game. I think Galerider is probably better, and I think that I'd run 4 Raptors and 4 Familiars before I'd run one Siren, but it's an interesting card nonetheless.
Dakra Mystic: Instead of flying, this one drop could potentially draw some cards. If it didn't cost one mana to use every time, it might be worth playing. As it is, though, it simply slows us down too much. As well, it provides no actual card advantage except for the advantage of always getting the better end of the 1 for 1 deal.
Polymorphous Rush: This is a neat little combat trick that really only has one solid target in our deck: Master of Waves. Turning two of our own guys into Master clones and pumping our elementals is a play that can steal wins. If an opponent waits to remove Master with instant-speed removal, casting this can keep your elementals alive for one attack, which can turn the game. Alternately, you can turn your creatures into copies of opposing fatties to sneak that extra damage past. It seems to be too conditional to me, but we'll see if it sees play at all.
Hour of Need: The other strive card that might see play in mono-blue. Turning your dudes into sphinxes gives us some resiliency against control or mono-black, but it doesn't help against a Verdict and it seems too mana-intensive to be any good to me.
Battlefield Thaumaturge: Doesn't seem great to me, but if you're playing the previous two cards he might help you out. Also, he makes Cyclonic Rift slightly cheaper if you're not overloading, which is a thing I guess. I highly doubt he'll be played in anything but a deck centered around him, which would not be MUD.
Keranos, God of Storms/Kruphix, God of Horizons: Keranos might be worth the splash, but there isn't anything else red worth playing. Kruphix is garbage in MUD, though I'm already making a homebrew RUG Kruphix/Prophet of Kruphix/Volcanic Geyser deck, which is going to be so cool and so much mana and he's so great for EDH and his art is so awesome- AHEM, excuse me. Garbage.
I think the only card of these that will see mainboard play is Dictate of Kruphix. U/w players did get a neat piece of SB tech in Deicide. While we didn't get much help, we did get some meta help. Decks built around Athreos, God of Passage are probably going to take a big bite out of control, while being very winnable matchups for us and our plethora of 2/3s that block their 2/1s and 2/2s all day. We do need to watch out for Eidolon of Blossoms decks, though - they can out CA us, and a Sphere of Safety with multiple enchantments on the field can be GG.
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!It isn't quite as good with master as you think, because unless we have 7 mana up, they won't let us attack with elementals, which means they'll have removal up the next turn (so it isn't likely to save your elemental tokens).(or, of course, just play it t3 and then Master t4, but then you would be getting many elementals...) The main problem with it is that it's a 3 drop that adds absolutely no devotion. It might be worth running one, but I can't see running more than that.Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!A card I would like to discuss is Thassa's Ire. It can provide a buffer against creatures, especially Aetherling which is how I lost g2 and 3 recently against U/W control. It's obviously bad against aggro but against other midrange decks, it's not bad after attrition battles. Plus, it provides a bit of devotion. Just food for though.
Not gonna lie, Hour of Need feels like big game for us. A 4/4 flier at instant speed is nothing to scoff at and using this in response to removal seems backbreaking. Off of Nykthos, it feels unfair. In the most desperate situations, it can be used as a bad removal spell and can still be ignored by Thassa.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Thassa's Ire seems really good against AEtherling and really bad against, well, everything else. Against mono-black, the only creature worth tapping down is Desecration Demon, which we can usually do anyway with Master tokens or cheap fliers. As for control, I can count the games I've lost to AEtherling on one hand. I lose much more often to Elspeth than AEtherling.
I'm still unsure about Hour of Need. I've tested it in the sideboard vs removal-heavy decks (only on cockatrice) but haven't yet actually cast it yet. I feel like it might be worth playing, especially since it can also be used in desperation as spot removal, making it more versatile, and this deck lives on versatile, high-value cards.
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Agree with all of this, although I want to try 1 Siren for 1 Cloudfin Raptor, as I hate top-decking a Raptor late game. Mostly useless.
Could Dictate replace the Bident? It does cost 1 less and doesn't require us to deal damage.
Also, Hall of Triumph seems legit.
This is my tentative list post-JOU:
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Tidebinder Mage
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Master of Waves
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Bident of Thassa
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
19 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Ætherling
1 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Domestication
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Dispel
3 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Rapid Hybridization
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
My Sideboard plan:
vs Control:
+2 Ætherling
+1 Hall of Triumph
+1 Dispel
+3 Gainsay
+2 Negate
-4 Tidebinder Mage
-3 Cloudfin Raptor
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
-1 Cyclonic Rift
vs Mono-Black:
+2 Domestication
+1 Hall of Triumph
+1 Dispel
+2 Negate
+1 Rapid Hybridization
-4 Tidebinder Mage
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
-2 Cloudfin Raptor
vs Aggro:
+1 Dictate of Kruphix
+2 Domestication
+1 Hall of Triumph
+2 Jace, Architect of Thought
-4 Tidebinder Mage (if not Red or Green)
-4 Judge's Familiar (if Red or Green)
-2 Rapid Hybridization
vs RG Monsters:
+2 Domestication
+2 Negate
+1 Rapid Hybridization
-3 Judge's Familiar
-1 Hall of Triumph
-1 Jace, Architect of Thought
vs Boros Burn:
+2 Domestication
+1 Dispel
+2 Jace, Architect of Thought
-4 Cloudfin Raptor
-1 Hall of Triumph
vs Enchantments:
+2 Domestication
+2 Negate
+1 Dictate of Kruphix
-2 Bident of Thassa
-3 Judge's Familiar
vs Mirror:
+2 Domestication
+3 Gainsay
+2 Jace, Architect of Thought
+1 Hall of Triumph
-4 Judge's Familiar
-4 Tidebinder Mage
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!We have 4 Thassa's which MBD cannot deal with either. Quite often I'll get another one in my hand. It's unfortunate, but it happens.
Also, the Hall would only be a 1-of. MAYBE 2, as we've said before (not trying to sound snarky, just reassuring you that we aren't trying to screw up an already good deck ). I would personally only run 1. I don't think we have that many flexible slots in the build.
You could go the UW route and add Mana Confluence to quicken the deck. I believe that was the major drawback for splashing white: tempo loss. I consistently beat my friend with mono blue while he played the splash version. I was just always a turn ahead of him.
He was running 3 Ephara, but the rest was the same. Maybe he just had bad draws/I curved out well every time. It just seemed a bit slower every game.
Anyway, I'm curious as to how many Mana Confluences you are planning on running, and if they will replace any of the other lands?
Master of the Feast is scary but if that card ever becomes popular, we dust out Claustrophobia and make the game real awkward for the opponent when the stars align.
Against white aggro, I feel as though siding out two Thassa is a thing that will be happening soon. Then again, I still plan on playing with U/w Devotion and bringing in a playset of Glare of Heresy for those matchups because people place way too much faith in their new O-Ring and the other shiny new white cards.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Anyway, I'm starting to think that post-JOU, U/w will be the better (and more popular) build. Mana Confluence helps it a lot, and it actually gets at least one new card from JOU for the sideboard (Deicide). One interesting thing about Mana Confluence is that it makes casting things off Nightveil Specter a lot easier, so now you don't have to connect at least twice and pick up a land to steal cards from them!
Let me take a stab at a U/w list:
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Tidebinder Mage
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Master of Waves
2 Rapid Hybridization
4 Detention Sphere
1 Hall of Triumph
11 Island
4 Mutavault
3 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mana Confluence
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Deicide
2 Ætherling
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Hall of Triumph
My Sideboard plan is a bit more unclear since I haven't playtested this yet. I'll probably change some things up, get some testing in, and see how it goes.
Standard: UUMono Blue DevotionUU
Modern:
RRBurnRRLooking for something new!Thassa stays in against white midrange but I'm willing to remove a copy or two in white aggressive matchups. I have to see how bad losing the most powerful cards in your deck is during a game. Lobotomy-effects tend to increase the amount of lands you draw and losing Thassa prevents you from scrying away lands in the mid-to-late game. This is the main reason why I like 2 Hall of Triumph so much since it makes your creatures less embarrassing and turns Master into a robust threat.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"