I won a PTQ to go to my first Pro Tour in Portland for M15. I am a limited only player these days but they make you play with 60 card decks too at the PT, so I need to learn Standard. I do follow the meta and have the following MBD deck built online and have been getting to know the format and various matches:
So do you guys see this as still being the best deck with the addition of M15? Any changes you would make besides adding one Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth? I have tried it with G and U splashes too, but so far prefer the simple straight B version that Owen recommends.
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Top MTGO Limited Rating: 1968
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
I won a PTQ to go to my first Pro Tour in Portland for M15. I am a limited only player these days but they make you play with 60 card decks too at the PT, so I need to learn Standard. I do follow the meta and have the following MBD deck built online and have been getting to know the format and various matches:
So do you guys see this as still being the best deck with the addition of M15? Any changes you would make besides adding one Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth? I have tried it with G and U splashes too, but so far prefer the simple straight B version that Owen recommends.
Liliana Vess has been proving to be decent. it strongly enables you to go toeto toe with the control decks, where you would flounder a little a times. Bile blight is a 4 of imo. but thats just my opinion
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top 100 SCG Sacramento
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
persoanlly i agree with you right now about no splashes, but i would do some testing, especially with green, with the m15 pain lands. i like urborg as a 2 of, i think it provides enough upside with mutavault. of course, it would provide greater upside with painlands
im not sure how i feel about specter over zombie, its close but right now i would go with zombie. i don't think MBD can afford to give 4 slots to each, although it worked at GP Chicago that deck was very heavily skewed to the expected metagame.
i think whips best place is in the sideboard, main deck you want to be as streamlined as possible. i would replace it with a third bile blight or a ultimate price (im not a huge fan of bile blight. my current removal suite is 4 downfall/ 4 devour/1 bile blight/ 1 ultimate price).
besides the aforementioned green splash and Urborg, i think lilliana is the only stand out playable from m15. although preventing life gain is important, in general i expect her to be better then erebos.
in general i like your idea of taking turtenwald's list and just trying to adjust it for m15. he is one of the best players in the game right now and this deck was his idea, i think its extremely bold for people to think they can build it better than he can.
Surprisingly it wasn't mentioned, but congrats on your first PT. I personally like the deck where you have it now in terms of Spectre over Lifebane in the main. Lifebane is added security over BBoV, but that is only part of the meta, while Spectre hits home to everything else.
zombie is also very good against white weenie, GW aggro, green ramp, naya tokens, jund monsters, rg monsters, and even has some upside against control as it can kill an elspeth in three turns through their tokens as well as taking archangels post board
also, your right i forgot to mention it. congrats on your first pro tour!
I will modify it as needed before the PT, but wanted to have the cards as I am on vacation for the next two weeks. I have been putting up good results online with this in 8-mans. Won 2 and went 1-1 in two. Only 2 loses were to green based decks and have a 5-0 match win stats vs Mono U. I like that because I expect to see Mono U at the PT too.
i like this list a lot. your 5-0 record against mono blue and worse games against green decks is probably because of your choice of specters over lifebanes, as specter is extremely good against mono blue while lifebane is extremely good against mono green. i ran the opposite last Friday and had the opposite effects, with my only loss coming against a friend playing mono blue while i completely destroyed white and green decks. whats your sideboard plan look like against the green decks? i know pretty much what comes in but im interested in hearing what you pull out.
Against Jund Monsters of Mono G devotion I would put in 4 Lifebane, 4 Doomblade and take out 4 Nightveil, 2 Bile Blight, 1 Underworld Connection, and 1 Swamp. One of my loses to green was against a weird GRU control deck with Keranos and Kiora. I put in the Duresses as well and took out the Demons. This did not workout as I had to much discard stuck in hand and not enough threats.
Against Mono-U I put in 4 Doom Blades and take out 1 Swamp and 1 Underworld Connections and 2 Demons. Not sure if this is the normal SB plan but seems to work.
Edit: Sorry, again Mono-G devotion I leave the 2 Bile Blights in and take out 2 more Underworld Connections, but above is correct for Jund Monsters.
against straight midrange decks like the GRU, i would be hesitant to remove demon as they dont have much fodder to sacrifice and he can profitably block most of their threats.
against mono blue it may be right to bring in some number of duress. sometimes they run upwards of 10 counterspells in their sideboard, and try to play a tempo game of landing a few threats and countering everything else of relevance.
im not a huge fan of bile blight against mono green, aside from a mana dork what targets to you have for them?
iverall though i feel those are solid sideboard plans
As for Duress against Mono-U. I have not tried it but have not had problems with counter spells. To me the game comes down to killing as many of their guys and going all in with Pack Rat and that usually comes out before counter magic is online.
My other major SB plan is in the Mirror I take out 1 Swamp and 2 Thoughtseize for 2 Erebos and 1 Dark Betrayal on the draw and take out 3 Thoughtseize on the play. I know some people like Thoughtseize in the match and even bring in some Duresses, but I find it comes down to top deck to often and then discard is terrible.
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Top MTGO Limited Rating: 1968
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
while the match usually comes down to top decks, thats usually because monoblack decks rip each others hands apart with discard spells. not having access to them is okay as long as you have a high density of kill spells post board, otherwise they'll just clear the way with disruption and beat down with a pack rat after all your answers have been taken. the only time i ever beat unchecked pack rats in the mirror was when i topdecked running desecration demons and he had already discarded his kill spells to the rat army.
Dont like the specter atm. While it has its uses against the mirror its not something I want to play against monoblue its gonna be Domesticated. As well it makes the board have to be crowded with Lifebane Zombies. Lifebane Zombie is just to strong not to play 4 in the 75.
Devour Flesh lifegain is a huge drawback when so many matchups are a pure race. Prefair Bile Blight / Ultimate Price main or Doom Blade / Pharicka's Cure in the board. Devour Flesh isnt a reliable removal for baron. Duress, thoughtseize, sin collector and ofc other creatures / mutavaults on the battlefeild just make the removal into a joke. Found the best way to beat baron is with snatching it from the hand with thoughtseize / lifebane or race with Whip / Erebos. While Bile Blight is lackluster against monogreen Devour flesh is even worse. With 8 mana creatures + bts Flesh isnt gonna hit anything useful. While bileblight can hit double mana elf draws or the BTS explosive draws.
Found the worst matchup to be GW with Voice. Selesnya Charm ruins Desecrator Demon and makes blocks miserable. Greymerchant and pack rat are slow and bad in the opening hand but at the same time they are most of the time the way to victory. Without maindeck Lifebane zombies I dont see how you really can beat it in game 1 ever. Specter gets outclassed so fast by flash / trampler 5/5 for 4, 4/4 for 3, 3/3 for 2 or pro multicolored for 1. This matchup is a race. They are more heavy on threat then you and have a lower curve with high power creatures.
For the mirror match there are a couple of keycards to the matchup in Underworld Connection, Pack Rat, Grey Merchant, Erebos and even Liliana Vess and Soul of Innistrad has show great promise in the mirror.
Against monoblue there is really only 3 important cards you need to get rid of asap Domestication (if playing specters), Thassa, Master of waves and Bident. Both Waves and Bident can pretty much be a loss on the spot. Geting your specter domesticated is about the worst thing that can happend in the matchup. Its either instant 2 for 1 or 5 extra devotion and card engine, ye thats very bad. You are the control most of the time in this matchup. If you get to be the aggro its pretty much a win.
Jund Monsters: You are the aggressor in this matchup, its just a matter of time before their planeswalkers, polukranos or dragons takes over the game. Lifebane and Desecration Demon shines in this matchup. Just as many other matchup packrat can end it quickly, just not often the turn 2 rat. After board monsters tend to put in alot of removal and walkers so Duress gets very strong in the matchup. They also tend to board out rampager to make lifebane bit worse.
Against uw-x duress effects, erebos, underworld connection leads to many victories. Most of the time geting them caugh out of responces to lategame packrat with mutas have won most of my matches againt them. Leaving in Bile Blights after the board its one of the way to beat Elspeth. Lifebane also gets by elspeth tokens and mutavuals and can remove archangel of thune that some uw players might board in. Planacleansing matchup is alot easier to beat then the Detetion Sphere version. Pack Rat punish the cleansing one alot.
Against R-w burn Pharicka's Cure and Greymerchants are your best friend, while thoughtseize might see as a liability remember Skullcrack does way more damage then the 2 lifeloss. Against boss sligh you need to have opening hands filled with removal and hopefully a drown in sorrow. Atm my version Im able to board into 14 removal: 4 Hero's Downfall, 3 Bileblight, 1 Ulitmate Price, 3 Doomblade and 3 Pharicka's Cure. The Red matchups you really need alot of removal and are most of the time won by Grey Merchants and Whip of Erebos. Neither Lifebane zombie or Specter is any good in the matchup. Both Enable Searing Blood.
First and foremost, congratulations on getting to the Pro Tour! Second, here is my $0.02 on Monoblack Devotion.
This past weekend, I ran an updated version of MBD with the only two cards from M15 being Sign in Blood and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I went to FNM and went 4-0. Here was the list I ran:
Overall, the deck ran well, but there were a few changes that I wanted to make. First and foremost, Lifebane Zombie needs to be in the main deck rather than relegated to the side. There are too many decks with green creatures running around (not as worried about white creatures right now) such as Green Devotion, Monsters (G/r, Jund, and Naya), and in my local meta, even a few cheeky Simic decks. By taking out the Nightveils and moving the Zombies to main, that cleared up 4 sideboard slots. To fill in the gaps, I brought in an extra 2 Bile Blights, a third Dark Betrayal, and 1 Drown in Sorrow.
With the changes made, I went to another FNM-style event at my store on Saturday and again, went 4-0. Even though the Urborgs made it easier to cast Nightveil, I was so much happier drawing Lifebane in my first games of each match, even if only to get information from an opponent's hand. The intimidate ability also came into play a lot, as I only played one deck both nights that played black.
One card in my main that I am still iffy on is Pharika's Cure. It's mostly there to take out weenie creatures, but it can also help offset the life lost from Underworld Connections and Sign in Blood. Unless I was playing an aggro deck, I generally ended up siding it out. When I did get to use it though, I really was glad I had it (Naya Aggro).
Sign in Blood is absolutely amazing. I played it in Standard a couple years ago and loved it then. Most of the time, it's a 2-for-1 Underworld Connections, but I love it when I Sign in Blood my opponent who is at 1 or 2 life. The look on their face is priceless.
Finally, I would recommend having 2 Urborgs over 1, maybe even up to 3. Being able to cast a Hero's Downfall with only 2 Mutavaults open but still be able to cast Bile Blight is awesome.
Again, congratulations on making to the Pro Tour, and good luck to you in it!
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
3 Devour Flesh
2 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Underworld Connections
1 Whip of Erebos
22 Swamp
1 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
4 Duress
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Lifebane Zombie
2 Pharika's Cure
So do you guys see this as still being the best deck with the addition of M15? Any changes you would make besides adding one Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth? I have tried it with G and U splashes too, but so far prefer the simple straight B version that Owen recommends.
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Liliana Vess has been proving to be decent. it strongly enables you to go toeto toe with the control decks, where you would flounder a little a times. Bile blight is a 4 of imo. but thats just my opinion
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
im not sure how i feel about specter over zombie, its close but right now i would go with zombie. i don't think MBD can afford to give 4 slots to each, although it worked at GP Chicago that deck was very heavily skewed to the expected metagame.
i think whips best place is in the sideboard, main deck you want to be as streamlined as possible. i would replace it with a third bile blight or a ultimate price (im not a huge fan of bile blight. my current removal suite is 4 downfall/ 4 devour/1 bile blight/ 1 ultimate price).
besides the aforementioned green splash and Urborg, i think lilliana is the only stand out playable from m15. although preventing life gain is important, in general i expect her to be better then erebos.
in general i like your idea of taking turtenwald's list and just trying to adjust it for m15. he is one of the best players in the game right now and this deck was his idea, i think its extremely bold for people to think they can build it better than he can.
Standard:
UR Control
also, your right i forgot to mention it. congrats on your first pro tour!
I just bought the above list plus 1 Devour Flesh, 2 Doom Blade, 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, 2 Drown in Sorrow, and 1 Liliana Vess. I play only online so had almost no new paper cards. Traded 2 Polluted Delta, 1 Flooded Strand and some random stuff from my PTQ decks and Journey box I won for the deck and sleeves.
This is the updated deck I have been playing online:
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
4 Devour Flesh
2 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Underworld Connections
22 Swamp
1 Dark Betrayal
4 Doom Blade
4 Duress
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Lifebane Zombie
I will modify it as needed before the PT, but wanted to have the cards as I am on vacation for the next two weeks. I have been putting up good results online with this in 8-mans. Won 2 and went 1-1 in two. Only 2 loses were to green based decks and have a 5-0 match win stats vs Mono U. I like that because I expect to see Mono U at the PT too.
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Against Mono-U I put in 4 Doom Blades and take out 1 Swamp and 1 Underworld Connections and 2 Demons. Not sure if this is the normal SB plan but seems to work.
Edit: Sorry, again Mono-G devotion I leave the 2 Bile Blights in and take out 2 more Underworld Connections, but above is correct for Jund Monsters.
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
against mono blue it may be right to bring in some number of duress. sometimes they run upwards of 10 counterspells in their sideboard, and try to play a tempo game of landing a few threats and countering everything else of relevance.
im not a huge fan of bile blight against mono green, aside from a mana dork what targets to you have for them?
iverall though i feel those are solid sideboard plans
As for Duress against Mono-U. I have not tried it but have not had problems with counter spells. To me the game comes down to killing as many of their guys and going all in with Pack Rat and that usually comes out before counter magic is online.
My other major SB plan is in the Mirror I take out 1 Swamp and 2 Thoughtseize for 2 Erebos and 1 Dark Betrayal on the draw and take out 3 Thoughtseize on the play. I know some people like Thoughtseize in the match and even bring in some Duresses, but I find it comes down to top deck to often and then discard is terrible.
2nd place behind Paulo after round 3 of Pro Tour M15
(finished 8-8, but beat Alexander Hayne and Ben Stark)
Will you share your MD and SB?
This past weekend, I ran an updated version of MBD with the only two cards from M15 being Sign in Blood and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I went to FNM and went 4-0. Here was the list I ran:
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
3 Underworld Connections
2 Sign in Blood
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Ultimate Price
1 Doom Blade
2 Bile Blight
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
19 Swamp
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Doom Blade
3 Duress
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Lifebane Zomebie
2 Pithing Needle
1 Whip of Erebos
Overall, the deck ran well, but there were a few changes that I wanted to make. First and foremost, Lifebane Zombie needs to be in the main deck rather than relegated to the side. There are too many decks with green creatures running around (not as worried about white creatures right now) such as Green Devotion, Monsters (G/r, Jund, and Naya), and in my local meta, even a few cheeky Simic decks. By taking out the Nightveils and moving the Zombies to main, that cleared up 4 sideboard slots. To fill in the gaps, I brought in an extra 2 Bile Blights, a third Dark Betrayal, and 1 Drown in Sorrow.
With the changes made, I went to another FNM-style event at my store on Saturday and again, went 4-0. Even though the Urborgs made it easier to cast Nightveil, I was so much happier drawing Lifebane in my first games of each match, even if only to get information from an opponent's hand. The intimidate ability also came into play a lot, as I only played one deck both nights that played black.
One card in my main that I am still iffy on is Pharika's Cure. It's mostly there to take out weenie creatures, but it can also help offset the life lost from Underworld Connections and Sign in Blood. Unless I was playing an aggro deck, I generally ended up siding it out. When I did get to use it though, I really was glad I had it (Naya Aggro).
Sign in Blood is absolutely amazing. I played it in Standard a couple years ago and loved it then. Most of the time, it's a 2-for-1 Underworld Connections, but I love it when I Sign in Blood my opponent who is at 1 or 2 life. The look on their face is priceless.
Finally, I would recommend having 2 Urborgs over 1, maybe even up to 3. Being able to cast a Hero's Downfall with only 2 Mutavaults open but still be able to cast Bile Blight is awesome.
Again, congratulations on making to the Pro Tour, and good luck to you in it!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=576454