I'd say maindecking lifebane and ultimate price are a good choice right now. Anytime a powerhouse like lifebane is good in more than 50 percent of your game 1 matchups, it is a going to be a huge advantage.
5% difference in consistancy is actually high if your only palying 61 cards... adding a 61th card only decreases the probability of drawing any one card by no more than 1%. (while having a more dramatic effect on your mana).
That may be right, I was just reading through a lot of the stats people were talking about in this thread and another. I think it may have been the 25/26 land numbers I was thinking of when I put 5%. But whatever the numbers are the point is the same - you will have to play a lot of games before it becomes noticeable, but it will cost you some games; and if enough of those games are in tournaments then it can cost you money.
I suppose I understand- I'll have to see how he performs against the expected field, but if he doesn't work, I'll have to leave the big guy behind. That being said, I might go up to 26 lands, cut the demon, and still run 61; less because I want to, more because I don't know what to cut. There are just too many good cards for black right now.
Question, for control, any idea on how Sanguimancy could perform? I keep looking at the card, wanting it to be good, but idk.
As for Pack Rats, I don't know. Sometimes going down makes sense, but he's just such a house that I think we need 4. Tbh though, I was never a big fan of just running the rat out on T2, and then going all in. It just never seemed like the best play to me. If I T1 thoughtseize, and they've got nothing, then I can see it. But I rarely have a T1 thoughtseize into rat.
Any deck that runs det.sph. and sup. ver. are going to be a problem. Any time I see "turn 3 ;play island, pass" I start to rethink my strategy. I personally find that most control decks don't really have an answer to whip that sticks.
Would it make sense to move one Rat to the board, perhaps bringing in a Lifebane? With G/R and control variants being so popular right now, along with Bile Blight being a thing, Pack Rat feels less good than it used to be in a lot of the most common matchups. Lifebane is great against GR naturally, a solid evasive threat against control that gives information and doesn't make you commit more resources, and obviously good against any random GW decks that may show up.
A single Lifebane will not do the trick, I feel that putting all the rats to the board and bringing in all lifebane's would be better. Yet that decision should only be made if you feel that R/G/x is going to be the main deck in what ever tournament your in.
I'm not saying it will make a huge difference, it's just a little push to help with what I feel to be a rough matchup. Really, though, the point is just looking for something to swap from the board for one Rat since I'd like to run just three main deck. Lifebane just seemed like a good choice because it's generally good against the same major decks that Pack Rat isn't so good.
So, I've been messing around with my list and I want to get your guys' opinion on this one. Keep in mind, this is going to be the list I intend to run at a PTQ this weekend; and I'm betting there is going to be a ton of G/r Devotion decks, because that seems to be the deck right now.
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
1 Pack Rat
2 Bile Blight
2 Erebos
3 Duress
1 Drown in Sorrow
I really expect RG Monstrous will have a big showing. So, I wanted to start out a little presided in and its not like most of the cards are really ever a dead card. If nothing else the zombie gets to look at a hand for free to make me not waste a thoughtsieze a few turns in. I just have really not like the performance of pack rats for me lately. Really like how its been performing so far
Four Drown in Sorrow feels like way too much. It's only good against a few decks, most of which are not tier 1.
It may be too much. It's really only at 4 because of G/R devotion and how it can just hose their board sometimes. I'm terrified of that deck. I feel like we have a 30% win chance. At least, that's how all of my matches against it have played out. I might drop down to 3 again.
So, I've been messing around with my list and I want to get your guys' opinion on this one. Keep in mind, this is going to be the list I intend to run at a PTQ this weekend; and I'm betting there is going to be a ton of G/r Devotion decks, because that seems to be the deck right now.
With the recent meta shift, Bile Blight is a much more effective card, I find. It hits harder against more decks, often 2-for-1'ing, whereas Devour Flesh rarely hits the creature I want it to. The only reason I even run it is for Blood Baron, whom I've seen once in my past 10 matches or so.
With the recent meta shift, Bile Blight is a much more effective card, I find. It hits harder against more decks, often 2-for-1'ing, whereas Devour Flesh rarely hits the creature I want it to. The only reason I even run it is for Blood Baron, whom I've seen once in my past 10 matches or so.
~X
Isn't the meta shifting to GR? Bile is terrible VS GR.
Bile is much better than Devour Flesh. Say they have turn two BTE,BTE,BTE, Nykthos into whatever. Well, with Bile Blight, as soon as the third one hits I respond with BB, and 3-for-1 (this has happened multiple times to me) whereas DF they can just sac a Mystic. Devour Flesh is probably our worst card against GR. I don't know why you would say Blight is terrible, as I find it to be a key card against them, often 2-for-1 or 3-for-1'ing them.
Bile is much better than Devour Flesh. Say they have turn two BTE,BTE,BTE, Nykthos into whatever. Well, with Bile Blight, as soon as the third one hits I respond with BB, and 3-for-1 (this has happened multiple times to me) whereas DF they can just sac a Mystic. Devour Flesh is probably our worst card against GR. I don't know why you would say Blight is terrible, as I find it to be a key card against them, often 2-for-1 or 3-for-1'ing them.
~X
Thats not GR monsters though. GR Monsters does not typically run BTE.
Honestly, I haven't run across a GR monsters list at my local store, so I've forgotten about the deck. Does it give us a hard time? What's the difference between the two deck (Monsters/Devotion) and what is Monsters line of play?
Honestly, I haven't run across a GR monsters list at my local store, so I've forgotten about the deck. Does it give us a hard time? What's the difference between the two deck (Monsters/Devotion) and what is Monsters line of play?
~X
You can check star city games for the St. Louis Open Top 8 Deck list. A vast majority of the top 8 was GR monsters.
The Monster's line of play is big creatures. The only creature they play with toughness less than 3/3 is mana dorks (although some of the new lists run the 3/3 fanatic)
Bile is much better than Devour Flesh. Say they have turn two BTE,BTE,BTE, Nykthos into whatever. Well, with Bile Blight, as soon as the third one hits I respond with BB, and 3-for-1 (this has happened multiple times to me) whereas DF they can just sac a Mystic. Devour Flesh is probably our worst card against GR. I don't know why you would say Blight is terrible, as I find it to be a key card against them, often 2-for-1 or 3-for-1'ing them.
~X
Thats not GR monsters though. GR Monsters does not typically run BTE.
But Devour Flesh is still worse than Bile Blight against G/R Monsters. They'll still just sac a mana dork or Mutavult. I've successfully used Bile Blight to nail two attacking Stormbreath Dragons; you'll side it out G2, but it's more effective G1 than Devour Flesh. And try playing Devour Flesh against MUD, which is seeing a resurgence at my local meta. Absolute junk. The only reason I run 2 in my 75 is out of respect for BBoV, and I have a feeling that's going to change.
Honestly, I haven't run across a GR monsters list at my local store, so I've forgotten about the deck. Does it give us a hard time? What's the difference between the two deck (Monsters/Devotion) and what is Monsters line of play?
~X
You can check star city games for the St. Louis Open Top 8 Deck list. A vast majority of the top 8 was GR monsters.
The Monster's line of play is big creatures. The only creature they play with toughness less than 3/3 is mana dorks (although some of the new lists run the 3/3 fanatic)
Either one should be a good matchup for us. We have as much disruption & removal as they have threats. The key is to keep Domri off the board, and focus on the big threats. Xenagod isn't very good unless he's active or has something to pump, so he can actually be largely ignored. Lifebane Zombie is a house in this MU, ripping their hand apart AND backstabbing PW's. It's not unusual for him to be a 3-for-1 or better. Nightveil is almost as good, and blocks Satyr tokens.
As R/G has been gaining steam lately, I've begun to maindeck Doom Blade instead of Devour Flesh. (Restart 2-cmc removal debate . . . now.)
Bile is much better than Devour Flesh. Say they have turn two BTE,BTE,BTE, Nykthos into whatever. Well, with Bile Blight, as soon as the third one hits I respond with BB, and 3-for-1 (this has happened multiple times to me) whereas DF they can just sac a Mystic. Devour Flesh is probably our worst card against GR. I don't know why you would say Blight is terrible, as I find it to be a key card against them, often 2-for-1 or 3-for-1'ing them.
~X
Thats not GR monsters though. GR Monsters does not typically run BTE.
But Devour Flesh is still worse than Bile Blight against G/R Monsters. They'll still just sac a mana dork or Mutavult. I've successfully used Bile Blight to nail two attacking Stormbreath Dragons; you'll side it out G2, but it's more effective G1 than Devour Flesh. And try playing Devour Flesh against MUD, which is seeing a resurgence at my local meta. Absolute junk. The only reason I run 2 in my 75 is out of respect for BBoV, and I have a feeling that's going to change.
Honestly, I haven't run across a GR monsters list at my local store, so I've forgotten about the deck. Does it give us a hard time? What's the difference between the two deck (Monsters/Devotion) and what is Monsters line of play?
~X
You can check star city games for the St. Louis Open Top 8 Deck list. A vast majority of the top 8 was GR monsters.
The Monster's line of play is big creatures. The only creature they play with toughness less than 3/3 is mana dorks (although some of the new lists run the 3/3 fanatic)
The difference is that Monsters skips the BTE, Nykthos, Voyaging Satyr, and maindeck Arbor Colossus that you'll see in Devotion, and instead runs Mortars, Stormbreath Dragon, Courser of Kruphix, and a few other 3-4 cmc threats. Basically, Devotion is capable of outrageous amounts of mana, but Monsters is more consistent and poses earlier midrange threats.
Either one should be a good matchup for us. We have as much disruption & removal as they have threats. The key is to keep Domri off the board, and focus on the big threats. Xenagod isn't very good unless he's active or has something to pump, so he can actually be largely ignored. Lifebane Zombie is a house in this MU, ripping their hand apart AND backstabbing PW's. It's not unusual for him to be a 3-for-1 or better. Nightveil is almost as good, and blocks Satyr tokens.
As R/G has been gaining steam lately, I've begun to maindeck Doom Blade instead of Devour Flesh. (Restart 2-cmc removal debate . . . now.)
I'll start the 2 CMC removal debate again ;P
I actually agree with you. However in my local meta MBD is still a thing. It's for that reason I prefer MD x4 devour flesh and SB doom blades. Devour flesh isn't terrible vs gr monsters. It hits caryatid which can be huge.
I actually like devour vs MUD. Not as much bile, but it kills the one drop flyer or owl allowing for a turn 3 infest.
Essentially, its the same list I posted last page, but -1 Drown in Sorrow, +1 Doom Blade in SideBoard. Or do you think I go down to 2 Devour Flesh, and put in an additional Doom Blade, thus running a full 4 in the 75.
Essentially, its the same list I posted last page, but -1 Drown in Sorrow, +1 Doom Blade in SideBoard. Or do you think I go down to 2 Devour Flesh, and put in an additional Doom Blade, thus running a full 4 in the 75.
~X
Personally I'm a huge fan of devour flesh. I can't see myself going below 4. Here is my deck list.
That may be right, I was just reading through a lot of the stats people were talking about in this thread and another. I think it may have been the 25/26 land numbers I was thinking of when I put 5%. But whatever the numbers are the point is the same - you will have to play a lot of games before it becomes noticeable, but it will cost you some games; and if enough of those games are in tournaments then it can cost you money.
I have found that x3 pack rats is most likely the best number to have.
The problem I've ran into: pack rats appears medoicer vs control and GR monsters. Both decks are extremly popular at the moment.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Question, for control, any idea on how Sanguimancy could perform? I keep looking at the card, wanting it to be good, but idk.
As for Pack Rats, I don't know. Sometimes going down makes sense, but he's just such a house that I think we need 4. Tbh though, I was never a big fan of just running the rat out on T2, and then going all in. It just never seemed like the best play to me. If I T1 thoughtseize, and they've got nothing, then I can see it. But I rarely have a T1 thoughtseize into rat.
~X
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
Main Deck
Creatures: (17)
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Instants: (10)
2 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Bile Blight
Other: (8)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underworld Connections
Lands: (25)
17 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Sideboard: (15)
1 Pack Rat
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Devour Flesh
3 Duress
4 Drown In Sorrow
Thoughts?
~X
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
running it with
2 pack rats
3 lifebane zombie
4 nightveil specter
4 desecration demon
4 gary
4 thoughtsieze
2 bile blight
4 devour flesh
4 underworld connection
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Silence
17 Swamp
Sideboard
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
1 Pack Rat
2 Bile Blight
2 Erebos
3 Duress
1 Drown in Sorrow
I really expect RG Monstrous will have a big showing. So, I wanted to start out a little presided in and its not like most of the cards are really ever a dead card. If nothing else the zombie gets to look at a hand for free to make me not waste a thoughtsieze a few turns in. I just have really not like the performance of pack rats for me lately. Really like how its been performing so far
Does Pithing Needle really help though? Don't they board in Destructive Revelry? Its worth a look at, but I'm not really sold on the idea.
It may be too much. It's really only at 4 because of G/R devotion and how it can just hose their board sometimes. I'm terrified of that deck. I feel like we have a 30% win chance. At least, that's how all of my matches against it have played out. I might drop down to 3 again.
~X
I personally do not like x4 biles and prefer x4 devour flesh, x2 bile.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
~X
Isn't the meta shifting to GR? Bile is terrible VS GR.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
~X
Thats not GR monsters though. GR Monsters does not typically run BTE.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
~X
You can check star city games for the St. Louis Open Top 8 Deck list. A vast majority of the top 8 was GR monsters.
The Monster's line of play is big creatures. The only creature they play with toughness less than 3/3 is mana dorks (although some of the new lists run the 3/3 fanatic)
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
GR Monsters
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
But Devour Flesh is still worse than Bile Blight against G/R Monsters. They'll still just sac a mana dork or Mutavult. I've successfully used Bile Blight to nail two attacking Stormbreath Dragons; you'll side it out G2, but it's more effective G1 than Devour Flesh. And try playing Devour Flesh against MUD, which is seeing a resurgence at my local meta. Absolute junk. The only reason I run 2 in my 75 is out of respect for BBoV, and I have a feeling that's going to change.
The difference is that Monsters skips the BTE, Nykthos, Voyaging Satyr, and maindeck Arbor Colossus that you'll see in Devotion, and instead runs Mortars, Stormbreath Dragon, Courser of Kruphix, and usually 4-6 total between Ghor-Clan Rampager, Boon Satyr, and Fanatic of Xenagos. Basically, Devotion is capable of outrageous amounts of mana, but Monsters is more consistent and poses earlier midrange threats.
Either one should be a good matchup for us. We have as much disruption & removal as they have threats. The key is to keep Domri off the board, and focus on the big threats. Xenagod isn't very good unless he's active or has something to pump, so he can actually be largely ignored. Lifebane Zombie is a house in this MU, ripping their hand apart AND backstabbing PW's. It's not unusual for him to be a 3-for-1 or better. Nightveil is almost as good, and blocks Satyr tokens.
As R/G has been gaining steam lately, I've begun to maindeck Doom Blade instead of Devour Flesh. (Restart 2-cmc removal debate . . . now.)
I'll start the 2 CMC removal debate again ;P
I actually agree with you. However in my local meta MBD is still a thing. It's for that reason I prefer MD x4 devour flesh and SB doom blades. Devour flesh isn't terrible vs gr monsters. It hits caryatid which can be huge.
I actually like devour vs MUD. Not as much bile, but it kills the one drop flyer or owl allowing for a turn 3 infest.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Main Deck
Creatures: (17)
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Instants: (10)
2 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Bile Blight
Other: (8)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underworld Connections
Lands: (25)
17 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Sideboard: (15)
1 Doom Blade
1 Pack Rat
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Devour Flesh
3 Duress
3 Drown In Sorrow
Essentially, its the same list I posted last page, but -1 Drown in Sorrow, +1 Doom Blade in SideBoard. Or do you think I go down to 2 Devour Flesh, and put in an additional Doom Blade, thus running a full 4 in the 75.
~X
Personally I'm a huge fan of devour flesh. I can't see myself going below 4. Here is my deck list.
Main Deck
Creatures: (15)
3 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Instants: (10)
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
4 devour flesh
Other: (10)
4 Thoughtseize
3 Underworld Connections
2 Ashiok
1 whip of erebos
Lands: (25)
10 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
3 island
4 Mutavault
Sideboard: (15)
2 Doom Blade
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Duress
2 Drown In Sorrow
2 Notion Thief
1 underworld connections
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA