I would think Psychic Strike, despite being 1 more to cast, would just be straight up better and actually has seen MB play in winning 4-0 daily lists. As for Bile Blight, the UWx decks DO play Mutavault, so having an out to that and Elspeth tokens should not be overlooked so quickly, besides you're boarding out plenty removal in that MU as it is, at least leave in the one with extra utility.
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Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
See, I'm just not a big fan of the splash. I have been playing this deck for 6-7 weeks, and have had only one really bad week. Before I made the switch, I was strictly playing Golgari or "The Rock" archetypes, most notably "Fear the Reaper" builds. I found way too many time not having the correct mana when I need it, or a mana dork getting killed, so I couldn't play my Demon T3. I know mono builds get hated out easier, but 2-3 colors or a splash are just greedy IMO. I mean, your playing 1 negate, so what really are the odds your going to see it when you really need it? MBD has really no way to dig, except for the scry lands, and that is only 1 deep. We don't run Read the Bones so So far JOU isn't looking to promising.
I still stand by this, wrong or right:
There are way better options than Negate.
After SB, you could possibly have 12 discard spells (3 or 4 Duress from the board) and 4 LBZ (unless their main) and your 4x Seize. Add a needle or 2 and most match-ups shouldn't be an issue.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I was playing a G/B Rock build for a while too, and I had the same issues with the mana even with a very small splash. I think once the B/G Scry land is out I'm going to try the green splash again. I like Abrupt Decay too much to not give it a chance.
im thinking with all the white might be time I revisit building w/b aggro, god oblivion ring lol and god kill, black and white seems be shaping nicely.
-MH
OK, whats going on here? No posts in the last 65+ hours. Are we all done crying about the JOU spoiler and how MBD got no serious love?
So far the only change I make (and I don't want to, but I gotta evolve) is adding the B/G scrylands and adding Abrupt Decay.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I have been thinking about dropping the dd and swapping them for motf. I know that it will clog up the 3 drop, but I think it will serve better in the long run
OK, whats going on here? No posts in the last 65+ hours. Are we all done crying about the JOU spoiler and how MBD got no serious love?
So far the only change I make (and I don't want to, but I gotta evolve) is adding the B/G scrylands and adding Abrupt Decay.
I agree, ill be adding the G/B scry lands as well.
but for abrupt decay, golgari charms in the side and maybe a vraska
What purpose can Vraska serve? A 5 drop (where you want to really drop a Gary) that removes a permanent? We already have cards for that. IDK, I really don't want to splash but AD and Charms seem the way to go. Now, the question in G2 what comes out? And, the only answers we have for Aetherling are Seize and Needle, and seize needs to be played by T3 or it gets countered. I personally only run 2 Needle in the board. I really want to find a way to squeeze in at least 2 Read the Bones. We need to dig/set up draws. I find myself topdecking land when I need an answer.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
What purpose can Vraska serve? A 5 drop (where you want to really drop a Gary) that removes a permanent? We already have cards for that. IDK, I really don't want to splash but AD and Charms seem the way to go. Now, the question in G2 what comes out? And, the only answers we have for Aetherling are Seize and Needle, and seize needs to be played by T3 or it gets countered. I personally only run 2 Needle in the board. I really want to find a way to squeeze in at least 2 Read the Bones. We need to dig/set up draws. I find myself topdecking land when I need an answer.
whoa there relax it is just a suggestion. our major problem with this deck is the lack of answers to enchantments adding green helps . even though in theory merchant is a better play we only possess 4 hero's downfalls to remove any kind of walker and i feel that vraska being able to target ny nonland permanat is value worth the 5 mana.
I would think Psychic Strike, despite being 1 more to cast, would just be straight up better and actually has seen MB play in winning 4-0 daily lists.
I hadn't even considered Psychic Strike, but it's definitely a better surprise counter than Negate. I'm probably gonna cut the splash though, since I'd rather not run a counterspell than play Watery Graves (they would know not to walk a Revelation into a counter/Notion Thief)
JOU cards that have caught my eye so far: (not what I plan to play, but what I could see playing post-JOU)
Brain Maggot could be discard effect 9-12. Silence the Believers iff bestow.dek beccomes a thing Extinguish All Hope 6 mana's a lot but I could see running 1-2 in my 75 Dictate of Erebos really slow and doesn't do anything by itself, but the effect is really powerful against creature decks. Worst Fears Probably not, but I'm tempted to run 1 in the SB just so I can Sphinx's for 0/Use their counterspells on their spells/Revoke Existence their Dspheres
whoa there relax it is just a suggestion. our major problem with this deck is the lack of answers to enchantments adding green helps . even though in theory merchant is a better play we only possess 4 hero's downfalls to remove any kind of walker and i feel that vraska being able to target ny nonland permanat is value worth the 5 mana.
I am relaxed. I didn't mean to come off like that. We are all running the same deck, and I was just trying to get an explanation for Vraska. I guess the only way we will know is through testing.
Oh, and thanks for the explanation.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Vraska is definitely worth a spot. I know it seems like a 5-mana Vindicate, but she's so much better than that. By the time you're dropping her, especially in this deck, you'll be able to protect her for at least a couple turns and you get to destroy another permanent. If she eats a Downfall or Sphere before that, then she destroyed something and protected your other threats. Sometimes you even get to keep her around for several turns to destroy everything the opponent plays. And all along the way the opponent has to treat her as a threat capable of ending the game, because she can do that too. It's rare to actually win with her tokens, but just once is worth it.
That said, she's still just a one-of since she costs five and all. I considered a second in the sideboard at times but never got around to testing that.
Vraska is definitely worth a spot. I know it seems like a 5-mana Vindicate, but she's so much better than that. By the time you're dropping her, especially in this deck, you'll be able to protect her for at least a couple turns and you get to destroy another permanent. If she eats a Downfall or Sphere before that, then she destroyed something and protected your other threats. Sometimes you even get to keep her around for several turns to destroy everything the opponent plays. And all along the way the opponent has to treat her as a threat capable of ending the game, because she can do that too. It's rare to actually win with her tokens, but just once is worth it.
That said, she's still just a one-of since she costs five and all. I considered a second in the sideboard at times but never got around to testing that.
the 2nd vraska wouldnt happen in my list, but i really feel that MBD splash green will be very welled position against all these new and current enchanments.
@mirroredhearts
I agree white would be totally worth running. Infact white might run away with the crown once people start brainstorming with their options.
As far as MotF I think he could actually take nightveil's (or split with) spot with a split on lifebane also.
A: to quicken the clock
B: to offer devotion
He is actually pretty insane if you ask me and the only match you wouldn't want him I. Is against a U/x deck where they are looking for disruption or win con.
Ive been looking at this list alot as its been poping up alot on mTGO and ive tested although I feel the 2nd whip isnt needed its still a great card that provides u with outreaching your opp.
It's bad and has never appeared in a successful tournament deck. It's a 1/1 against control. Even against more creature-heavy decks, it will be something like a 3/3 in the average case and that just isn't good enough. Pack Rat is much better in most situations.
If you're not familiar with the competitive metagame, you may want to post in Standard Deck Creation for the time being.
I have been thinking about dropping the dd and swapping them for motf. I know that it will clog up the 3 drop, but I think it will serve better in the long run
Keep the Desecration Demon. I may be crazy here, but Master of the Feast seems bonkers. It is a card that will pull you way ahead and murder aggressive decks if out early. How powerful is T3 Master, T4 Desecration Demon, T5 Gray Merchant? The fact that it only gives your opponent the card only on your turn forces your opponent to keep up instant speed removal if they want to get an advantage out of it, if not, its still a 1 for 1.
I think Green may be the best splash to go because it has maindeck removal to D-Sphere and Banishing Light, Abrupt Decay is also good against Aggressive strategies. I recommend a 3-3 split between MOTF and lifebane.
If MOTF really gets good, I can see it replacing lifebane and making it only the 3 drop creature on the list. But it is too early to tell.
It will never be the only 3 drop. You gotta make Rats somehow
Seriously, I like the card AND I'm going to test it before I make any decisions, but it seems like it would fit better in a MB Aggro build.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I have been thinking about dropping the dd and swapping them for motf. I know that it will clog up the 3 drop, but I think it will serve better in the long run
Keep the Desecration Demon. I may be crazy here, but Master of the Feast seems bonkers. It is a card that will pull you way ahead and murder aggressive decks if out early. How powerful is T3 Master, T4 Desecration Demon, T5 Gray Merchant? The fact that it only gives your opponent the card only on your turn forces your opponent to keep up instant speed removal if they want to get an advantage out of it, if not, its still a 1 for 1.
I Like the play of T3 Master, T4 (hit 5) Underworld draw 1, T5 (hit 5)Gary (for 6).
As you all know I'm not a big supporter of splashing, but what would you say if you were able to get a Desecration Demon out on T3?
Splash and add Sylvan Caryatid or Elvish mystic and it can be a reality.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
As you all know I'm not a big supporter of splashing, but what would you say if you were able to get a Desecration Demon out on T3?
Splash and add Sylvan Caryatid or Elvish mystic and it can be a reality.
T3 DD have happened before (any one remember "The Rock")
You can't play Elvish Mystic in this deck without a bunch of basic forests, which then makes it a whole different deck really.
Caryatid isn't great here either. Turn two for mono-black should consist of either disrupting the opponent or dropping a Pack Rat. Ramping isn't necessary because the deck's curve is already built to have a plan for every turn.
Further, I don't think a turn three Demon is actually that big a deal for this deck. You're not playing aggro, so it's probably your only (real) creature and just sitting out as removal bait. You should be spending the early game picking off the opponent's cards, and don't bother with killing them until they can't do anything about it. If you had to play a scry land turn one to cast the Caryatid on two and Demon on three, you've spent your first three turns not interacting with your opponent. That's a very bad start for mono-black.
Not that I'm against green; I'm a big fan of splashing for Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm, and maybe a couple other things. I just don't think mana dorks do anything this deck is interested in.
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I still stand by this, wrong or right:
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
So far the only change I make (and I don't want to, but I gotta evolve) is adding the B/G scrylands and adding Abrupt Decay.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
I agree, ill be adding the G/B scry lands as well.
but for abrupt decay, golgari charms in the side and maybe a vraska
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
whoa there relax it is just a suggestion. our major problem with this deck is the lack of answers to enchantments adding green helps . even though in theory merchant is a better play we only possess 4 hero's downfalls to remove any kind of walker and i feel that vraska being able to target ny nonland permanat is value worth the 5 mana.
JOU cards that have caught my eye so far: (not what I plan to play, but what I could see playing post-JOU)
Brain Maggot could be discard effect 9-12.
Silence the Believers iff bestow.dek beccomes a thing
Extinguish All Hope 6 mana's a lot but I could see running 1-2 in my 75
Dictate of Erebos really slow and doesn't do anything by itself, but the effect is really powerful against creature decks.
Worst Fears Probably not, but I'm tempted to run 1 in the SB just so I can Sphinx's for 0/Use their counterspells on their spells/Revoke Existence their Dspheres
BBB Mono Black (standard)
I am relaxed. I didn't mean to come off like that. We are all running the same deck, and I was just trying to get an explanation for Vraska. I guess the only way we will know is through testing.
Oh, and thanks for the explanation.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
That said, she's still just a one-of since she costs five and all. I considered a second in the sideboard at times but never got around to testing that.
the 2nd vraska wouldnt happen in my list, but i really feel that MBD splash green will be very welled position against all these new and current enchanments.
MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
I agree white would be totally worth running. Infact white might run away with the crown once people start brainstorming with their options.
As far as MotF I think he could actually take nightveil's (or split with) spot with a split on lifebane also.
A: to quicken the clock
B: to offer devotion
He is actually pretty insane if you ask me and the only match you wouldn't want him I. Is against a U/x deck where they are looking for disruption or win con.
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
4 Squelching Leeches
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Spells- 25
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
3 Doom Blade
3 Pharika's Cure
2 Bile Blight
2 Mind Rot
4 Hero's Downfall
23 Swamp
4 Cremate
4 Pithing Needle
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Mind Rot
1 Pharika's Cure
1 Whip of Erebos
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Pack Rat
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Underworld Connections
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Bile Blight
4 Thoughtseize
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Mutavault
21 Swamp
2 Pharika's Cure
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Duress
1 Devour Flesh
4 Dark Betrayal
2 Child of Night
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
What do you guys think of Wight of Precinct Six?
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
If you're not familiar with the competitive metagame, you may want to post in Standard Deck Creation for the time being.
Keep the Desecration Demon. I may be crazy here, but Master of the Feast seems bonkers. It is a card that will pull you way ahead and murder aggressive decks if out early. How powerful is T3 Master, T4 Desecration Demon, T5 Gray Merchant? The fact that it only gives your opponent the card only on your turn forces your opponent to keep up instant speed removal if they want to get an advantage out of it, if not, its still a 1 for 1.
I think Green may be the best splash to go because it has maindeck removal to D-Sphere and Banishing Light, Abrupt Decay is also good against Aggressive strategies. I recommend a 3-3 split between MOTF and lifebane.
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Mutavault
2 Mana Convergence
11 Swamp
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Master of the Feast
4 Desecration Demon
4 Pack Rat
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Underworld Connections
3 Duress
2 Doom Blade
2 Nightveil Specter
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Bile Blight
1 Golgari Charm
1 Unravel the Aether
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Dark Betrayal
If MOTF really gets good, I can see it replacing lifebane and making it only the 3 drop creature on the list. But it is too early to tell.
It will never be the only 3 drop. You gotta make Rats somehow
Seriously, I like the card AND I'm going to test it before I make any decisions, but it seems like it would fit better in a MB Aggro build.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I Like the play of T3 Master, T4 (hit 5) Underworld draw 1, T5 (hit 5)Gary (for 6).
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
Splash and add Sylvan Caryatid or Elvish mystic and it can be a reality.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
T3 DD have happened before (any one remember "The Rock")
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
Caryatid isn't great here either. Turn two for mono-black should consist of either disrupting the opponent or dropping a Pack Rat. Ramping isn't necessary because the deck's curve is already built to have a plan for every turn.
Further, I don't think a turn three Demon is actually that big a deal for this deck. You're not playing aggro, so it's probably your only (real) creature and just sitting out as removal bait. You should be spending the early game picking off the opponent's cards, and don't bother with killing them until they can't do anything about it. If you had to play a scry land turn one to cast the Caryatid on two and Demon on three, you've spent your first three turns not interacting with your opponent. That's a very bad start for mono-black.
Not that I'm against green; I'm a big fan of splashing for Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm, and maybe a couple other things. I just don't think mana dorks do anything this deck is interested in.