MTG Salvation

Chandra, Pyromaster or Garruk, Caller of Beasts? The 3rd place deck at SCG Open Nashville featured a 1 of Chandra main deck and 0 Garruk, while a deck that recently 4-0'd on MTGO featured 2 Garruk and 0 Chandra. None of the G/R decks at the Nashville Open had any Garruks main deck in fact. Have his days as a staple of G/R gone by? I've heard that control decks dislike Garruk and it can be house if it sticks. Yet in a very control heavy meta it was a sb card. Thoughts? Trying to decide on a list for an upcoming PTQ, appreciate the input.

Quote from phoenixdrakenfire

Chandra, Pyromaster or Garruk, Caller of Beasts? The 3rd place deck at SCG Open Nashville featured a 1 of Chandra main deck and 0 Garruk, while a deck that recently 4-0'd on MTGO featured 2 Garruk and 0 Chandra. None of the G/R decks at the Nashville Open had any Garruks main deck in fact. Have his days as a staple of G/R gone by? I've heard that control decks dislike Garruk and it can be house if it sticks. Yet in a very control heavy meta it was a sb card. Thoughts? Trying to decide on a list for an upcoming PTQ, appreciate the input.

I run 1 in the sideboard for the control matchup. Not sure if it should be ruric thar though.

Chandra is really good with the new courser. Garruk is still really good. But we dont really need anymore pressure with the addition of Xenagod.

To start with, I'd just like to suggest that the gods fit into the 'planeswalker' category somewhat, since they are durable value threats that are hard for the opponent to remove.

And of course the other three core 'planewalkers' are Domri Rade, Xenagos, the Reveler and Nylea, God of the Hunt.

Garruk *was* run prior to Born of the Gods, but quite frankly I think that Garruk has been supplanted by Xenagos, God of Revels. He is a more impactful card, plus he plays better with our other creatures vs wrath decks (giving the top-decked fatty haste) plus he's cheaper. He's slightly worse when it comes to drawing cards, but quite frankly Garruk was always a little bit 'win-more' by providing lots of card draw at the top end of the curve, plus Courser of Kruphix gives us some cheaper card advantage to offset the loss.

tbh I think that Chandra doesn't get a look in due to her red intensive nature.

Chandra and its not close, With Courser from BNG Chandra is just that much better. She can also help you push through damage which is amazing against basically any deck.

I think Chandra is the better planeswalker in this build, but in a Nykthos type deck I would rather have Garruk for the more explosive potential.

But honestly, I'm not even sure that Chandra is all that necessary anymore. Between Courser and Domri, that usually is enough to overwhelm most other decks with CA. That said, being able to provide more versatile threats against limited modes of removal (Detention Sphere can only answer so many things) is the best way to beat some decks. But then you run into the issue of not having enough creatures to make Domri have full value.

I'm not currently utilizing her in my side board, but I will probably be testing her as a one-of for the control matchup.

Quote from solarsion

I'm running a one-of Chandra in my mainboard and i LOVE her.

So how many do you think is the right number? What did you cut to fit her in?

I would be wary of running out to many threats like all my Planeswalkers against UW control, they are starting to play Fated Retribution, could be a huge blowout overextending like that.

Quote from sslater

I would be wary of running out to many threats against UW control, they are starting to play Fated Retribution, could be a huge blowout overextending like that.

Unless your threats are indestructible, right?

Quote from magicmerl

Quote from sslater

I would be wary of running out to many threats against UW control, they are starting to play Fated Retribution, could be a huge blowout overextending like that.

Unless your threats are indestructible, right?

And how are you going to do that in GR?

Quote from magicmerl

Quote from solarsion

I'm running a one-of Chandra in my mainboard and i LOVE her.

So how many do you think is the right number? What did you cut to fit her in?

I personally run 2 copies of Chandra mainboard, and have had good success so far (6-2 at recent PTQ and have won every other tournament I've played in since Born ot the Gods came out. I cut Xenagos, the Reveler down to one copy and don't play Flesh//Blood mainboard for the two copies. I am also thinking of cutting the other copy of Xenagos, the Reveler and throwing in a singleton Garruk... Maybe its just me, but I haven't been very impressed with The Reveler.

Quote from sslater

Quote from magicmerl

Quote from sslater

I would be wary of running out to many threats against UW control, they are starting to play Fated Retribution, could be a huge blowout overextending like that.

Unless your threats are indestructible, right?

And how are you going to do that in GR?

Nylea, God of the Hunt

Xenagos, God of Revels

So two cards that don't do anything on their own? And one of them doesn't see play in the deck that is posting results.

Anyway, I was referring to the post about someone saying that they like to have all 3 or 4 Planeswalkers out in play against control, wasn't talking about Gods (which they will just answer with Detention Sphere or counter it).

All that said, when I was watching the games this weekend on SCG Live, I wasn't impressed with Chandra, Pyromaster. Like Patrick Sullivan said, she may draw you cards, but she doesn't apply pressure like Xenagos, the Reveler does or have an ultimate ability that you want to build towards like Domri Rade (which happens to draw cards at the same time).

She's a solid card, but I'm conflicted about her in this style of deck. The reason being is that yes, she allows you to play more cards, but then that plays into their game plan of using sweepers to gain CA, so she can be hurtful just as much as she can be beneficial. The difference with Xenagos, the Reveler is that he creates tokens, so he is a single threat that must be answered, allowing you to keep building resources (cards in hand). Domri Rade has a similar effect by building resources (drawing cards) while building towards a game ending ultimate. Chandra, Pyromaster doesn't actually help you build resources as you have to play the card that turn or lose it for the rest of the game. I think she would be better in a more burn style deck.

Quote from sslater

So two cards that don't do anything on their own?

Ok, so what you want is a card that is a threat that's good on it's own, and survives Fated Retribution? Let me know what you come up with. Nylea in particulary is good because she turns our late game mana dorks into contributors and with trample cen get around Elspeth.

Quote from sslater

She's a solid card, but I'm conflicted about her in this style of deck. The reason being is that yes, she allows you to play more cards, but then that plays into their game plan of using sweepers to gain CA, so she can be hurtful just as much as she can be beneficial. The difference with Xenagos, the Reveler is that he creates tokens, so he is a single threat that must be answered, allowing you to keep building resources (cards in hand). Domri Rade has a similar effect by building resources (drawing cards) while building towards a game ending ultimate. Chandra, Pyromaster doesn't actually help you build resources as you have to play the card that turn or lose it for the rest of the game. I think she would be better in a more burn style deck.

I still think Chandra is worth testing at least just to feel out the potential interaction with Courser of Kuphrix and Domri Rade. I guess there's a danger that you get all carried away with card advantage and forget to actually kill the opponent, but I suspect not.

I never said that I want something that is a must answer threat and that survives a sweeper, I said I wouldn't overextend into it.

But how is playing a god overextending?

Who said anything about the Gods? I said that I wouldn't play out 4 Planeswalkers.

I think with GR Monsters shines post BNG that runs all 4 RG planeswalkers Domri Rade, Chandra, Pyromaster, Garruk, Caller of Beasts and Xenagos, the Reveler, I think U/W/x definitely going to have 1-2 Fated Retribution as another copy of Supreme Verdict. Later when the meta changes, I believe running the two RG Gods may be a thing. Of course Nylea, God of the Hunt and Xenagos, God of Revels can't do anything on their own, but it makes every creature drop lethal. Unless there's an instant speed removal each turn, there's no way to deal with it except to deal with the Gods first.

What are you going to cut for Nylea, God of the Hunt? The four slot is already full with Polukranos, World Eater, Ghor-Clan Rampager, and Xenagos, the Reveler. I love her in the devotion build, but I don't think she fits into the GR Monsters deck. Xenagos, God of Revels does everything we need it to, it makes threats bigger and faster with no further investment needed. The best thing she does is provide Trample, but Ghor-Clan Rampager does that as well. The benefits of Ghor-Clan Rampager though are that it can be a threat on an empty board where Nylea, God of the Hunt requires other stuff on the board because of devotion, and if you draw multiples of Ghor-Clan Rampager you actually like that where multiples of Nylea, God of the Hunt makes you a sad panda.

As far as using all 4 Planeswalkers, what are you going to cut for them? The only cards worth cutting are Polukranos, World Eater and Mizzium Mortars (I personally like keeping Courser of Kruphix in the deck against control, usually draws several lands or get's removed quickly, keeping pressure of my game winners) and I like siding in Boon Satyr and Mistcutter Hydra against control, which I prefer over Chandra, Pyromaster and Garruk, Caller of Beasts. Against the mirror I've been siding out Courser of Kruphix and Mizzium Mortars for Boon Satyr, and the 2-ofs Arbor Colossus and Shock, which I would prefer over Chandra, Pyromaster and Garruk, Caller of Beasts.

The only deck I could see wanting Chandra, Pyromaster and Garruk, Caller of Beasts against would be MBD/Jund/random midrange good stuff to try and overload their Hero's Downfalls and Dreadbores, which Mizzium Mortars is the only really weak card in the matchup.

This is what I'm using for the sideboard right now:



I really like Mistcutter Hydra for the Control and MUD Matchups; Arbor Colossus for MBD and the mirror; Boon Satyr for Control and the mirror; Anger of the Gods against MBD, MUD (where others have been using Gruul Charm) and random agro decks; and Shock against the mirror, MBD, MUD, and random agro decks. I think that my sideboard is pretty tight right now.

Quote from sslater

What are you going to cut for Nylea, God of the Hunt? The four slot is already full with Polukranos, World Eater, Ghor-Clan Rampager, and Xenagos, the Reveler. I love her in the devotion build, but I don't think she fits into the GR Monsters deck.

This makes sense to me, because you already have the trample option covered with the Rampager in Monsters.

Quote from sslater

As far as using all 4 Planeswalkers, what are you going to cut for them? The only cards worth cutting are Polukranos, World Eater and Mizzium Mortars

I don't think cutting Polukranos is right. So by a process of elimination....

Quote from sslater

I like siding in Boon Satyr against control

Really? Do you think bestow is that good?

Quote from sslater

3 Anger of the Gods

How has that been working out for you? Don't you hurt your own manabase too much?

Boon Satyr has been testing very well. In the mirror, it makes my creatures bigger which is the best way to win the match. Against Control, it's either a 4/2 EOT to give it "haste" or another variant of Ghor-Clan Rampager. It's been testing very well.

As for Anger of the Gods, if I'm in a position where I need to cast it, then I'm usually behind board wise and don't care about my mana dorks.

That said, I have changed up my sideboard a little bit because I have moved two of the Boon Satyrs to the main deck.