MTG Salvation

There are only the enemy painlands and the deck is base GR. This means you don't have the luxury of dropping Scry lands to keep the number of Green and Red Sources up. The biggest benefit is this makes it easier to play more black and it gains us the ability to play one additional untapped Red source on T2.

Basically the mana bases probably look like this:

4 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Forest/Llanowar Wastes

This lets us play up to 12 Sources, but unless we plan on playing more black spells I think all it means is a 2/2 split rounding out the black sources at 10, and getting that critical 9th untapped red for T2 Domri. Realistically it would be nice to have like 10-12 of them but this is a small improvement to the mana. Mind you it's also sort of uninteresting since it doesn't change much. The Enemy Wedges have a much more insteresting choice since they could replace some number of Shocks with Painlands which actually are often less Painful. RUG is the only combination that really benefits for this out of the monsters builds. But Junk is also interesting.

However, for Jund I'm not sure much actually changes. This is just a small incremental improvement which removes the desire to say play a Mana Confluence (like Brad Nelson was advocating). There is absolutely no reason to play Confluence now that we have Llanowar Wastes, but it wasn't like we were exactly trying to splash for Hero's Downfall or Desecration. It's possible now if we wanted to be more greedy, but I'm not sure it's even needed. More realistically we can now play a black single cost creature on time but it wasn't like this deck was looking for Reaper of the Wilds or Exava.

EDIT: There is one other possibility. If life is a concern we do have the option of now of trading Blood Crypts for Mountains. Or Overgrown Tombs for Llanowar Wastes

4 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Llanowar Wastes

A manabase like above might actually be less painful.

CVM played the following list on a versus video:



While I appreciate how successful CVM has been with the deck, I found myself underwhelmed while watching the video and respectfully disagreeing with his update.

Quote from ryansolid »

.... you don't have the luxury of dropping Scry lands to keep the number of Green and Red Sources up. The biggest benefit is this makes it easier to play more black and it gains us the ability to play one additional untapped Red source on T2.

Basically the mana bases probably look like this:

4 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Forest/Llanowar Wastes

This lets us play up to 12 Sources, but unless we plan on playing more black spells I think all it means is a 2/2 split rounding out the black sources at 10, and getting that critical 9th untapped red for T2 Domri. Realistically it would be nice to have like 10-12 of them but this is a small improvement to the mana. Mind you it's also sort of uninteresting since it doesn't change much. ...

However, for Jund I'm not sure much actually changes. This is just a small incremental improvement which removes the desire to say play a Mana Confluence (like Brad Nelson was advocating). There is absolutely no reason to play Confluence now that we have Llanowar Wastes, but it wasn't like we were exactly trying to splash for Hero's Downfall or Desecration. It's possible now if we wanted to be more greedy, but I'm not sure it's even needed. ... If life is a concern we do have the option of now of trading Blood Crypts for Mountains. Or Overgrown Tombs for Llanowar Wastes

4 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Llanowar Wastes

A manabase like above might actually be less painful.

I would generally defer to ryansolid on manabase issues, but I found his post interesting as I came in here to post the version I have been tinkering with today:



Of course, a lot could change as the metagame adjusts to the influx of M15 cards - but this is where I am tempted to begin my efforts for Jund Monsters. As ryansolid would point out, it is a very greedy/painful manabase and has lost a few red sources; maybe he can fix it for me!

I think that's about as good as that base gets. The numbers check out quite well. Our standard base would be fine cutting a tapped red source or 2 I've mentioned before, but I think it's probably worth playing the Temples. That decks red is probably fine as really it can play Domri T2 as readily as any list (9 T2 untapped sources after T1 Green). It is very similar to the lists I was trying in the fall and again right after Confluence was printed. I think this deck might have been fine about a month ago. I was playing something equally as greedy (Naya splash blue). However unlike that deck, this deck probably can't beat Boss Sligh. Like not remotely. It seems strong but takes more pain off the lands, and it ignores all the changes from the past few weeks. There is a reason for the uptick in Ultimate Prices and Abrupt Decay main and I think this deck is significantly worse there. I think it's very good in midrange matchups like the mirror, just that much higher threat density. But when I was playing Demon in Monster like builds against Control it was as awkward as Polukranos and I think in general I suspect the pain pushes this out. It's a lot of pain just to play Demon who while good, probably isn't that good. It hasn't been that good actually in the past set or so. In the Fall I'd be all over it, now it's harder sell.

It's probably worth trying again but given that base is as painful as playing Naya (requires 2 Confluence to get the critical white for T2 Voice unless you want to play 5+ Temples) I'm very skeptical. I see Demon as more Polukranos and I'm not sure that is actual as relevant and for me the mana in Naya was too brutal on the life (I tried to play to it get a bigger benefit out of it), but I think the painlands give us the way of escaping that path rather than walk into it.

What does everyone think of CVM's current build for M15?



I'm not too sure about the Reclamation Sages in the board. Seem meh at best... at least to me.

I think it looks pretty good (@Mootown for some reason I just missed the CVM link in your post, and I hadn't seen it when I wrote my previous posts). Interesting choice in that reducing the pain is so important he actually did not up his black count at all, and he still is playing the 5 temples. I honestly wasn't quite expecting that, but I shouldn't be surprised. He clearly has been playing with 9 black this whole time and is content and similarly with 5 temples which I've always felt was 1-2 too many. But it even further shows what I was talking about with the painlands replacing shocklands. I easily can see this being the right choice. The more I play with the painlands, the more I like the less life. My current RUG list plays 6. That's 2 less than even CVM's Jund list. If I want to mirror his build I could go down to 4, it's worth investigating. The thing to get with this is even if you want to improve the mana a bit, the cost in life is significant. Like I cut Nylea's Disciple from my sideboard in RUG because I found with the new land setup I was doing on average 3-4 less damage to myself with lands and was playing less lands tapped. So maybe that's the thing. Temples don't feel as bad in that quantity when you don't feel bad since you have to play your shocks tapped. Still I mean it's hard not to be tempted to just up the numbers a bit.. like the 10th black source maybe, maybe the 5th Temple is one too many. Maybe T2 Domri isn't very important. I think there is some room for tweaking but I will take the Tomb -> Wastes update as the baseline. It's significant change for life loss.

Other interesting thing is he went down to 12 red sources, and still only 8 untapped for Domri off an Elf. That confirms the room I was talking about and with Domri down to 3 maybe that's ok, but maybe the 17th green source is better. I was playing 17 in my Naya list for a while and I have to say I liked it a lot, so I definitely think it could be worth looking at but when you play less Temples, it becomes more tempting to play more red since playing early Dragon is more likely.

Reclaimation Sage has been something I've been seriously debating. Part of me wonders if it isn't better just to run something like Back to Nature given that we really only have the 3 Coursers. Is less pinpoint for the bad matchups where we want our Coursers but it seems so good when we don't have one in play. Easily a 2 for 1. Jund mind you has Golgari Charm which makes it maybe less necessary since you already have good slots with enchantment removal tagged on and Reclaimation Sage continues giving that versatility. Like maybe you just bring it in where Domri is bad to get more 3 drop creatures. In the non-black Monsters decks I think Back to Nature might be better though since without Charm you can effectively merge all those slots into like 2. I think it's the type of card you have to try. Especially if artifacts are a thing. It being ETB and not requiring any fiddling is huge. The immediate impact for tempo is such a big thing in this format since nothing ETB's. But this is the type of deck that needs every card to just be earth shattering. Reclaimation Sage isn't in a lot of matchups. I think it's generally a pass, but I can see why you'd consider it.

Quote from Naugh-Tay »

What does everyone think of CVM's current build for M15?

Somadelnocha's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures: 26 4 Elvish Mystic 3 Scavenging Ooze 4 Sylvan Caryatid 3 Courser of Kruphix 4 Polukranos, World Eater 4 Ghor-Clan Rampager 4 Stormbreath Dragon Planeswalkers: 6 3 Domri Rade 3 Xenagos, the Reveler	Other Spells: 5 2 Mizzium Mortars 2 Ultimate Price 1 Golgari Charm Lands: 23 4 Blood Crypt 4 Stomping Ground 4 Llanowar Wastes 4 Temple of Abandon 1 Temple of Malady 4 Forest 2 Mutavault	Side board: 15 3 Mistcutter Hydra 2 Nylea's Disciple 2 Reclamation Sage 2 Rakdos's Return 2 Golgari Charm 2 Putrefy 1 Doom Blade 1 Vraska the Unseen

I'm not too sure about the Reclamation Sages in the board. Seem meh at best... at least to me.

If you're already playing Putrefy + Golgari Charm, you probably don't need Reclamation Sage, and those slots could be better used on other things. Besides, isn't Unravel the Æther the superior option if you're looking for one? I'd play Nature's Claim if it were legal and could deal with Gods.

Quote from Somadelnocha »

If you're already playing Putrefy + Golgari Charm, you probably don't need Reclamation Sage, and those slots could be better used on other things.

inclined to agree with this in what had been the metagame - also Abrupt Decay - however, it is nice to have the effect on a body and could see it seeing some play ... I was wishing we still had Borderland Ranger the other day actually ...

Borderland Ranger =/= Reclamation Sage. Different effects obviously factor into different situations, and yes, BLR would be sweet, Reclamation Sage, not so much.

BONUS DECKLIST! This is a spicy one I've been trying out in the new format, feels pretty redonkulous sometimes (both good and bad). Not sure how I feel about it, but thought I would gauge others' responses to it.

Quote from Grungedude42 »

Thought I'd test out the Genesis Hydras in place of 3 Ghor-Clans and one Ooze.
I dont face a lot of UW control at my store, and way more point removal. Getting the extra value out of the Hydra in the form of extra butts on the battlefield seems like a winning plan.

I would try 2 in place of one Scavenging Ooze and one Polukranos, World Eater - I can see trimming a copy of Ghor-Clan Rampager for a 3rd Genesis Hydra if you really want to go for it, but I would still want some number of GCR in there

Jund Monsters was at its best when it was a fringe deck that was one of the most aggressive decks in the metagame - with a resurgence in monoblue and red based aggressive strategies becoming more common (burn then weenie), the deck has been caught in an awkward spot; UWx control has been in decline for a while now ...

we may be at a point in the metagame where Jeff Hoogland is on to something with his smash-up that he won an IQ with ...



I might try something more along these lines if I play tonight, but I think I'll get the Gruul planeswalkers in there. It will be a very low creature count but am going to try Domri Rade in the Underworld Connections slots as it seems better against weenie aggro and just jam 2 Xenagos, the Reveler and something else for Nightveil Specter as I don't own any of those right now. Liliana Vess and Chandra, Pyromaster could also be good in something like this ... Jund Walkers more so than Monsters could be the next iteration ... Definitely might worth trying something like this at FNM for now as it will be a while before I get a chance to play at a more serious event - the upcoming Pro Tour might actually shake things up by then.

EDIT: for clarity, Hoogland's list I posted is actually the slightly updated version - not the actual list that won the IQ - he added Evolving Wilds to the manabase and tweaked a few sideboard cards according to the article

top 4 at FNM (3-1-1) with this list:



more of a midrange list using some elements from Hoogland's list than a traditional monsters list - but I did want to share it with everyone in this thread



EDIT: also meant to mention that the (2 Devour Flesh or 2 Bile Blight) in the sideboard might need to be 2 Drown in Sorrow? guess you have to decide what to fear and what to try to dodge between Hexproof, Pack Rat, and weenie hordes...

Right after the pro tour I think that Monsters is still better positioned then the walker deck. The only matchups were I believe the walker deck is better are Orzhov Midrange and Mono Blue. BW is already being a good matchup and Mono Blue most likely being under represented at the upcoming WMCQ's (despite probably being a good meta call due to the increase in Planar Cleansing in UWx). Monsters would also have less of a target on it's head going into the WMCQ's because of the popularity of the Planeswalker deck. With that in mind here's the list I'm taking to the WMCQ in a couple weeks (and to a lesser extent, the game days)

It's atleast been my observation online. The whole play UW without Detention Sphere thing has been going on for a while, but with Monsters I found the matchup much easier than typical UW. Because of the added speed, the ability to hold up Charm for Cleansing at 6 much easier, that matchup is considerably better for Monsters. The opponent tapping out T3 for Divination gives such a huge opening. GW can be pesky but Dragon is better than most of their deck other than Advent of the Wurm but we matchup similarly on threat density. As for Monsters versus Planeswalkers, I'd take Monsters day head to head. The planeswalker build is a bit slower so it might be able to grind a bit but it's a bit like playing the black matchup. Chaining threats or getting something like Domri going earlier can pull a big enough tempo advantage. That being said, a timely Return is pretty bad. Mind you would rather be them or us getting hit by a Return.

That being said there is a reason for Planeswalker deck. Most aggro decks have gotten more efficient, and quicker. It puts Monsters at a harder place if it isn't going to play the threshold of removal. Jund for instance still loses a lot of life to it's lands and playing more than 5-6 Temples gets in the way of curving too much. Planeswalkers higher removal count and ability to curve better on Scrylands give it a genuine advantage here. Being less tempo relient can give it better consistency against midrange decks that want to grind, and gives more powerful midgame options. The fact that in the process it reduces some of the land life loss is what makes the clunkier version less clunky than those attempts at the same thing with Naya a few months back.

The most interesting thing to really be talking about is the mana. It's interesting the top 8 decks have remained mostly unchanged here. The balance of finding the least pain of shocks versus painlands I think huge for this archetype. Possibly the most important thing M15 brings. Saving a couple life while maintaining the untapped ratio is huge given the tempo of Monsters. Not to say the situation isn't tricky now that we have planeswalkers a touch bigger than us, and aggro just that much more efficient. But all it means is the deck needs to find a way to be more efficient itself, probably more aggressive without losing points to aggro. That's tricky admittedly, so maybe that requires a few pointers from GB. But for Monsters to survive right now and leverage it's ability against the very top decks it needs to slim out those issues against the other decks that are hovering.

Quote from SpiritOfTheDawn »

Reaper is soo much better than the demon! In a meta where spot removal is played a lot, the Reaper truly shines. But I still need to learn when to play it with or without untapped mana. Chandra saw an appearance in the first round, but wasn't needed since I had an Underworld Connections going with 2 Coursers in play.

I've tried Reaper of the Wilds in the deck as a two-of functional six drop in the past. I was trying to make something with Desecration Demon work but had already decided I was really just looking forward to Reaper hopefully being great in the slot (instead of just okay) post-rotation. I think opposing Lifebane Zombie is still a good argument to play Demon now as I used to lost quite a few to exile while I was waiting to get up to six mana to try and protect it with its ability; however, being easier to cast as a four drop due to casting cost and providing additional scry triggers without playing Temple of Malice or Temple of Malady are good arguments for just going ahead and jamming it now.

I was working on a hybrid aggressive Jund Midrange deck - not quite Monsters that can board into not quite Walkers. Ghor-Clan Rampager is noticeably absent - I suppose the Demons could just go back to being those if you don't really want to play the control role very often.



Questions I have that I would like to hear others' thoughts on ...

Anyone else trying/liking Hoogland's Evolving Wilds package with success? I actually really like it thus far. Yeah, it's cute ... and I get even cuter with the Primeval Bounty in the sideboard.

I've cut the Putrefy in the sideboard for my own copies of Lifebane Zombie - the extra body is nice given that I'm down quite a few creatures in the main compared to traditional Monsters. Does this seem sound?

Related, should the Chandra, Pyromaster in the main be another removal spell to help bridge the gap from the early game against faster aggro decks? Or is the possibility of picking off multiple x/1s in addition to other utility to good to pass up?

Curious to see how variations on Jund do in the next few weeks in metagames other than the Pro Tour ... I may or may not get to do anything soon including Game Day (taking my kids to their cousin's birthday party!)

@mootown: I like that maindeck list (other than Garruk Maybe).. it has the right mix of Removal walkers and creature threats. I'm especially impressed with the the decision to not go too crazy with removal or cards like Return. Your creature count for Domri is finally back in reasonable territory. The board is pretty good balance of proactive and reactive spells too. Stuff like Lifebane Zombie is exactly what you are looking for. The ability to go up in threat density is key here and makes your use of slots that much better. This seems much more balanced. The deck is definitely 4 drop heavy but I think it's the right sort of greedy gamble. Evolving Wilds seems reasonable with Urborg. I mean the card is never bad T1 when you don't have a play and you will find your slot on the curve. Scry is slightly better and with 2 pulling a land out of your deck isn't that much of an impact, but having it still be able to tap for mana with Urborg midgame when needed along with shuffling with Courser or Domri seems enough plus.

All things aside this is a type of list I could definitely play. It seems like a natural successor to what I played in the Fall right after Theros came out except the Mana is way better now (my Demon, Polukranos, Dragon deck from back then was pretty hard on mana, I think I had one Shimmering Grotto and 24 lands and like 8 temples). As I said I think the balance is just about right. I still think the mana is pretty painful and if I was in the market for that much pain Naya is much quicker way to end games (Boros Charm, or Ajani Caller of the Pride + Ghor Clan for the quick win, plus Voice+ Xenagos to neutralize any D Demon, and tons of removal decks). I think short of the card advantage potential Black is very overrated right now.

----------------------------------------

Brad Nelson and Brian Kibler's recent articles on SCG Premium have been very good and if you have it you should read them. I do want to share a couple quites I've been very vocal about my opposition to Rakdos' Return and claiming that people don't know how to play Monsters currently in that they don't understand it's a Tempo deck (my prime motivation for trading my black cards for blue). This is something I think every monsters player should consider:

Quote from Brad Nelson »

Personally, I was working on Jund Monsters. Outside of the Season Two Invitational, Jund Monsters is a deck I have never been thrilled to be sleeving up for an event, but it was almost always a dependable deck choice. The problem with Jund Monsters for me is that it's a ramp strategy. You always need your acceleration if you expect to win a game. Polukranos, World Eater, Xenagos, the Reveler, and Stormbreath Dragon are all reasonably impressive threats, but never when you're behind. At the time, I wasn't going to be sad about playing the deck, but I didn't expect the deck choice to give me the wins I needed to make Platinum.

They can't break serve!

I started to think back to what my major problems were when playing Jund Monsters and Naya Tokens and all of them were when I was on the draw. Everything my opponents were beating me with were non-issues when I was on the play but barely beatable on the draw.

Now every deck in the format has a higher win percentage when on the play. That isn't groundbreaking information. Wizards has started making cards so powerful that seven cards and twenty life points is just not enough to always turn the tide. The player with initiative will always have the option to play a potentially game winning threat if they have one. This puts a ton of strain on the opponent to make a decision of either dealing with the threat or deploy one of their own. It will sometimes be correct to dispatch the opposing threat and other times to try to trump it with their own. One wrong move from the player on the draw can spell game over.

.....

"Jund Monsters is the slowest your deck can get without being dedicated to removal," was the only thing my mind kept saying. It wasn't even a voluntary thought, but it was just something my brain kept screaming to me. I decided to take this as gospel and formulate a strategy based on this assumption.

So how does Jund Monsters break serve? I guess one key is in timing of removal spells. Having instant speed answers over Sorcery Speed, and having cheap answers is very relevant. I started putting this in context of something Brian Kibler said:

Quote from Brian Kibler »

Perhaps the biggest advantage of G/W though, is Selesnya Charm. In G/B, you have to play dedicated removal spells. I found myself playing Hero's Downfall and Abrupt Decay the most, since they were the most flexible, but even with these it was easy to end up with draws that were glutted with removal and unable to really apply pressure effectively.

Charm, on the other hand, acts as a removal spell for the creature you're most concerned with - Desecration Demon - while also serving as a threat in a pinch. Additionally, the combat trick mode allows you to keep the pressure on against opposing blockers that could otherwise stop you in your tracks, and can finish off a troublesome planeswalker (or a troublesome opponent) with a burst of trample damage. Basically, the card does just about everything an aggro deck could possibly want, which made me question why I was trying to build one without it.

Obviously in GW you don't have access to Mortars which gives you potential X for 1 advantage that allows you to be more specialized in your removal choices, but it still sort of stands. What if the problem with Jund breaking serve is the lack of flexibility of the non-proactive spells. I mean the non-proactive spells are pretty flexible especially like Golgari Charm, but Golgari Charm while flexible doesn't address a fundamental enough weakness for the archetype that other spells do. Abrupt Decay's narrow use might be still more useful generally. Even consider Hero's Downfall or Putrefy, or Ultimate Price, or even Dreadbore. Do these cards let you best leverage Tempo advantage. Can they effectively put you on the play instead of the draw, or prevent your opponent from taking initiative. Monsters decks are all about initiative. Mortars is one of the few cards that immediately takes back initiative. Dragon can be another, but usually only in combination with Ghor Clan. Under that lens how do you build Monsters to better compete?

There are a few options. I have to admit I'm pretty attracted to MooTown's brute force with bigger threats method above. But there might be less variable ways that don't get you stuck occasionally with this opener: Mountain, Mana Confluence, Wilds, Demon, Demon, Chandra, Dragon.

Quote from ryansolid »

There are a few options. I have to admit I'm pretty attracted to MooTown's brute force with bigger threats method above. But there might be less variable ways that don't get you stuck occasionally with this opener: Mountain, Mana Confluence, Wilds, Demon, Demon, Chandra, Dragon.

Thanks - I had read both Kibler's and Nelson's articles, but both excerpts are definitely worth copying into here (especially the ideas of breaking serve and Selesnya Charm acting as pump or removal -
Strong argument for GCR???) No Jund of any flavor in the top 16 of SCG Syracuse, but I did not watch any coverage either. I actually do better with the deck when others are abandoning it so could be good for me ...

As for your sample hand, part of playing this deck is rough mulligan decisiôns - that is a snap mulligan in my opinion. I resubmit the hand that cost me a finals appearance at SCG States a couple months ago. Game 3 on draw against Azorious control: mulligan to six is 2 Abrupt Decay, Xenagos, three lands (all three colors of mana - 2 shock lands and a forest). I did not like it but went to 5 as I felt like that hand in that matchup is a trap. Two friends there with me disagreed when we talked it over; two other friends with experience with the deck agreed with the decision when presented to them later.

All in all something like this is what I want to play; as always, I just have to keep tinkering the build.

Quote from mootown2 »

Quote from ryansolid »

There are a few options. I have to admit I'm pretty attracted to MooTown's brute force with bigger threats method above. But there might be less variable ways that don't get you stuck occasionally with this opener: Mountain, Mana Confluence, Wilds, Demon, Demon, Chandra, Dragon.

Thanks - I had read both Kibler's and Nelson's articles, but both excerpts are definitely worth copying into here (especially the ideas of breaking serve and Selesnya Charm acting as pump or removal -
Strong argument for GCR???) No Jund of any flavor in the top 16 of SCG Syracuse, but I did not watch any coverage either. I actually do better with the deck when others are abandoning it so could be good for me ...

As for your sample hand, part of playing this deck is rough mulligan decisiôns - that is a snap mulligan in my opinion. I resubmit the hand that cost me a finals appearance at SCG States a couple months ago. Game 3 on draw against Azorious control: mulligan to six is 2 Abrupt Decay, Xenagos, three lands (all three colors of mana - 2 shock lands and a forest). I did not like it but went to 5 as I felt like that hand in that matchup is a trap. Two friends there with me disagreed when we talked it over; two other friends with experience with the deck agreed with the decision when presented to them later.

All in all something like this is what I want to play; as always, I just have to keep tinkering the build.

The thing I got from the Kibler quote was more of the way he was looking at what the deck needed he felt, and how he could optimize slots for it. It wasn't just saying hey I need a removal spell. He was consciously working out what he needed to make his deck function. With black it's often too easy to just opt for the Hero's Downfall and call it. He recognized other ways to overcome shortcomings.

I don't take away anything incredibly bad by my sample hand example. You just mulligan and get on with your life. Mind the mulligan variability is pretty bad too. There are definitely closer ones. It was more of that's the gamble. I've played that deck, the one that mulligans like that on several occasions (including this past Standard Season). It's always a conscious decision. It's the way I usually approach things as well. If the payout is good enough go a touch greedier and hope to get a little lucky, or that the opponent gets a bit unlucky and I will time to overpower them. Monsters already is a deck like that, and this approach just is that tiny bit more emphasized. The question is if it's the only way viable way to move forward post m15?

As for your mulligan example, that's really hard. That is a terrible hand against control almost a mulligan to 5 on it's own as the 2nd Decay is pretty much useless. No play to T4 is just brutal. I'm not sure which 5 card hands are better. 2 Lands, Elf/Courser, Domri or Courser, something. Yeah that is really hard I'm not sure. I want to say I'd mulligan. But depending on how the player plays.. how aggressive they are with their removal and spells versus how they hold up permission, I might consider keeping it and hope to draw 1-3 drop in the first few turns.

@Strawberry.. few thoughts

I don't think Genesis Hydra is where you want to be. It's potentially value, but with expectation of playing it as a 6 drop or so, why not play a better 5 or 6 drop. Maybe there isn't one, but I'm sort of doubting that. I mean it isn't a great curve smoother as the deck is chalk full of 4 drops and probably already has enough 5's. As a 3 drop it's not worth it. It is definitely a potential over the top card in that it's so hard to get value right now, but it seems to be pretty variable for it's payout. Mind you it's probably better than the Soul. One of the characteristics of this format on a whole is that lack of immediate Oomph around the non-walker finishers.

I don't think you have enough black for Drown in Sorrow. Ideally you'd have 16 to support that cost and with Caryatid maybe we can count decently, but minimally I'd want 2 more black sources. I think it's perfectly achievable but it definitely a matter of how much is it worth. Upping the black count does help the likelihood of T2 Decay too so maybe that is a bonus across the board for those matchups depending on how you line it up. That being said, I generally find you take the first couple hits in that matchup to setup your board because keeping up on one for ones won't work. So maybe you have enough time to find your black before you are pulling the trigger on those spells. Still Drown seems reason enough to find a couple more.

I remember back a couple months when we all had 2 Thoughtseize's in our board and it sort of faded out of fashion. Mostly I think it was the awkwardness of early black mana. I played a list for a while that was more GBr rather than GRb and Thoughtseize was more reasonable to play (although generally the wrong tempo outside of the right matchups). Llanowar Wastes fixes that some so I'm interested in seeing how effective that is as a board plan.

Now that I live in Syracuse, I was excited to be in town for the SCG Open. I made sure months in advance to get the Saturday off. Going into the tournament, I was trying to decide between the Jund Planeswalkers or the Jund Monsters decks. I have a whole lot of experience with Monsters, but the Planeswalker deck seemed pretty good too. In the end, I made a quick decision to play what I was familiar with rather than just the deck of the moment.

Here's my list:



Round 1 vs. Benjamin K. (Mono-Blue Devotion) 2-0
I won the dice roll and was off to a good start, even with a mull-to-6. I saw the Turn 1 Cloudfin Raptor, I knew not to drop my Turn 1 Elvish Mystic. I just played removal and Sylvan Caryatid until I was sure he wasn't holding a Tidebinder Mage anymore. After that point, my Scavenging Ooze came down and began eating up his graveyard. I shut Thassa down and put him to bed. In Game 2 it was a lot of the same. I kept a very greedy hand with 3 removal spells, 1 land, 2 Caryatid, and an Ooze. I drew a land on my first turn and knew I was okay. My removal was enough to keep him off Nightveil Specter and Master of Waves, even though I was rather limited on mana at first. Polukranos and Mistcutter Hydra came down as finishers, and that was that.

Round 2 vs. Brian H. (Generator Jund) 2-1
I found myself playing against another Syracuse local, someone who I'd played at FNM a few weeks prior. He was on a Generator Servant sort of deck, which ramped out very quickly. He'd talked about it before and had mentioned Underworld Cerberus, so I knew it was an issue. He took Game 1 pretty solidly off of a Stormbreath Dragon. Game 2, however, ended with me ramping into Polukranos and 2 consecutive Rakdos's Return (for 2 and 3). All he had left were Caryatids, and my Hydra proved superior. Game 3 really wasn't a game. He was forced to mulligan to 3, and that was really all it took.

Round 3 vs. Timothy D. (Rabble-Red) 2-0
This was my first experience playing against the Rabble Red deck. I knew I had to rely on things like Sylvan Caryatid, Scavenging Ooze, Courser of Kruphix, and Polukranos if I was going to win. Both games boiled down to the Ooze and the Courser. In the second game, my opponent knocked me to 1 life 3 times! But because of my plethora of removal, there were lots of creatures in the graveyard for me to eat. Eidolon of the Great Revel almost cost me the match, but I was able to kill it with Polukranos before it forced me to take too much damage. At the end of game 2 I was at 4 life and he was left with only a Rabblemaster on the field against my Poly, Courser, Ooze, and Caryatid. I had considered killing the rabblemaster with an Ultimate Price on my turn, but I decided to leave mana up for one last Ooze activation. It's a good thing I did, because he ripped a Stoke the Flames off the top. I scrambled and used my ooze once more to survive at 1! And that was all she wrote.

Round 4 vs. Jared Boettcher (B/u Devotion) 2-0 [FEATURE MATCH]
This round was probably my favorite round of magic I've ever played, for a number of reasons. One, it was my first feature match and round on camera. Two, I was 4-0 and playing against the Pro Tour Rookie of the Year in Jared. Three, I got to represent TCGplayer.com (who I work for) wearing the bright blue. Four, I and all my friend watching had an absolute blast. Five: I won. I'm not going to post the details of the match here. Instead I'll just link to the coverage video of it.

Round 5 vs. Paolo C. (UW Cleansing Control) 2-0
Neither of the games were very difficult for me. A lot of fighting against UW (especially the Cleansing route) is simply not running all your threats into a sweeper. In game 1, I attacked with Oozes, Mutavaults, and Satyrs, and finally Bloodrushed for exactly lethal. Game 2 was a lot more of the same, with me holding back threats until I could protect them with Golgari Charm. Even when my board was wiped, I managed to snag a Stormbreath Dragon off the top and finish him off.

Round 6 vs. Jeremy S. (Mono-Black Devotion) 1-2
My first loss of the night was not a fun one. I took the first game pretty handily, but games 2 and 3 were much more difficult. And I found myself dying to combinations of Pack Rats and Grey Merchant.

Round 7 vs. Jacob B. (BW Midrange) 1-2
As with the last round, I took the first game pretty handily. Though Game 2 ended with me being beaten down by an Obzedat. Game 3 might have ended differently if I'd drawn a red source, but I was a bit stuck on mana for quite some time, and I drew all my Polukranos, leaving me with cards stranded in hand and Pack Rats bearing down.

Round 8 vs. Scott C. (Mono-Black Devotion) 2-1
Finally I got my vindication. As with the other rounds, I took the first game without much difficulty. Grey Merchant got me in the second game, but Dragons and continuous pressure let me take the second game without much difficulty at all.

Round 9 vs. Andrew Y. (Naya Hexproof) 0-2
These were some of the fastest games of Magic I've ever played, and my opponent clobbered me. Without a way to deal with his hexproof creatures, I was overrun in game 1. In game 2, I was stuck on 1 mana for too long and was unable to get my defenses going.

Round 10 vs. Michael G. (GW Aggro) 2-1
I put up a valiant struggle game 1, but a quick Advent of the Wurm and Selesnya Char sealed it for him. In games 2 and 3, double Stormbreath Dragons made short work of whatever he tried to send my way. The best part about this match, however, wasn't that I won. It was the fact that my opponent said he'd been following my progress throughout the day. That was insane. It felt great.

There were some standout all-stars for the day. Stormbreath Dragon, Scavenging Ooze, and Golgari Charm were the real deal, as expected. Xenagos is fantastic, obvi. I never actually got to play Vraska or Garruk, so I can't really comment there. Though I imagine there are better options for me over big daddy-G. In the future, I'd like to try and play some number of Nissa, Worldwaker or Liliana Vess in the deck, and I think Devour Flesh really shores up a miserable hexproof match for me. I'm not sure what else I could play (other than Glaring Spotlight), but devoting whole sideboard slots for JUST that matchup seems bad.

In the end though, I finished 37th, high enough to cash $50. I got to be on SCGLive and represent TCGplayer.com (the company I work for), and I beat the Pro-Tour Rookie of the Year on camera. All in all, it was a pretty awesome weekend.

Quote from Strawberry »

Great report Kamotz, and well tuned list. The plays were quite good too, as far as I saw. There was one point where I noticed you could/should've attacked with Mutavault (which the streamers pointed out), but I'll give you props for the uncommon line of Monstrous:ing a Pack Rat to force a Mutavault activation.

All in all your performance seems to prove Jund M is not yet dead. I think Nissa is not only a great card, but also improves important matchups (black, blue, uw) quite a bit when she hits.

Myself I'm considering if I can keep on not using Ultimate Price main deck (I only run 2 Golgari Charm/2 Mizzium Mortars at the moment) in favor of squeezing in an extra planeswalker (3 Domri/3 Xena/1 Chandra/1 Nissa). Maybe if I add the third Ghor-Clan Rampager (seeing as Desecration Demon is the creature I'm most eager to kill anyway).

I think if you want to kill the demon, Ultimate Price/Dreadbore is the way to go. Too often, they simply kill your bloodrushed creature, and then you're out of luck. Demon is the one creature that Black-based decks have over us. A pack rat can run over us if left unchecked, but we have outs to it. But the Demon and Master of Waves are both trickier to deal with (Tidebinder is another creature I like having an instant-speed, eot answer to). I've moved Golgari Charms from the maindeck, since in all but one matchup they're much less useful than other spells. I'm less impressed with Chandra these days. I really like the card, but it just seems mostly lackluster.

I probably SHOULD have attacked with the Mutavault. At the same time. I was wary of removal spells and getting overrun by rats. I went for caution. Since if the next turn went as it did, he could've attacked for at least 10, and I'm not sure I could race 5/5+ rats.