The issue with Heelcutter is along the same lines of why many people do not go the Rabblemaster route. 3 mana is often just too much in a deck where we would rather be casting pump than another creature.
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“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
goblin heelcutter is pretty useless, it will be too slow if you cast it normal, it'll be only good if you cast it with dash as a finisher, but still, too slow.
Also of note, we don't allow discussion of spoiled cards until the entire set has released. It gets in the way of discussion about the current format -- we still have opens and GPs.
I have been testing the following deck on cockatrice in anticipation of taking to this Friday's FNM. At my LGS we get a decent turn out with usually 4 or 5 rounds of swiss, no cut to top 8 or anything. I have no idea what the meta is like as I haven't touched a constructed format that wasn't Pauper in over a year but I'd assume it's relatively diverse and hopefully not many Whip of Erebos centered decks. Anyway, here's the list, pretty standard from what I can tell but any and all criticism is encouraged.
So far in my relatively limited testing these are things I've noticed:
It seems really easy to bait out removal with Akroan Crusader.
Without Hall of Triumph in play, I pretty much fold if they get a Doomwake Giant trigger to resolve. Any advice to play around this other than kill them before it hits? Maybe +1 Hall in the board?
I feel the maindeck is fairly solid, but the sideboard could use work(obviously once I get used to the meta adjustments will be made).
I like you list alot, but have a few suggestions/questions for you:
1) You're running two Shatters in your SB. Why? What artifacts do you expect to encounter?
2) Don't think Hordeling Outburst is needed. You're running enough goblins to interact with Rabblemaster beautifully.
3) Mainboard Eidolon of the Great Revel.
What are the opinions on War-Name Aspirant? Seems like a good sideboard card or maybe even mainboard. A 3/2 for 2 CMC and can't be blocked by creatures with power 1 or less (Sylvan Caryatid and other mana dorks). What do you guys think?
I've found that 2 Satyr Hoplite and 2 Firedrinker Satyr are the best combinations. Instead of having 4 of one or the other, the split allows for faster damage to get pushed through (can mini pump Firedrinker or permanently pump Hoplite, great to have both). Test this combo out at FNM, as it worked great for me.
Went 4-3 drop in GP Manila with Drazinus' list. 2 Boss Sligh decks made it to Day Two though :3 My losses were acceptable; sometimes the deck just decides to stop playing. :))
I gave up on the Firedrinker some time ago. The damage effect lost me more games than the 2/1 for one mana factor helped.
As long as people are playing Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix I will play Firedrinker Satyr. Being able to get past them without wasting cards in your hand is huge.
You can just cut him post board in the matchups where he is a giant liability.
Foundry Street Denizen turn one
Turn two have Mardu Scout
Cast it for its dash cost until control player finds instant speed removal for it, attacking for five over and over.
Maybe they'll use one of their sweepers or exile spells on the FSD, which would be fantastic by itself.
I am the biggest fanboy of this card already.
Double red for our devotion strategies
Can cast it every turn for purphoros triggers
It's just "win in a can"
In the Standard forum, new card discussion is only allowed in this forum. Warning/Infraction issued. -Lugger
I like the coordinated assaults, but I also like the satyr hoplites. My version might not be good, but I don't understand why people aren't using the ordeals and the hoplites. I feel like hoplite with ordeal is better than the goblin.
Have people had experience with running the heroic version? Clearly it's not as good or else I'd see more of it. Why does it fail?
You do not usually see people run Ordeals mainly because the deck prefers to not have to spend two mana on a pump spell. I actually run two Hoplites in my deck mainly for the turn two Hoplite into Hammerhand play potential. Generally speaking, Hoplite rarely sticks around long enough to be targeted more than twice (and often dies to removal the second time).
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“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
My plays were all okay haha, sometimes my losses were because of never/late drawing my 2nd land, or didn't draw the lethal Stoke/Lightning Strike in time, and sometimea mana floods. That's what it's all about with this deck, high risk and high rewards. I just cherish those glorious Turn4 kills haha :)) They were Tom Ross's build of Boss Sligh; I just cannot grasp my playstyle in Levy's list haha
The variant Boss Sligh lists I see that make Top8 include 4 Satyr Hoplite AND 3-4 Coordinated Assault to maximize heroic opportunities I don't like how hoplites go all-in and then dies to removal but eh, each to his own
I still haven't seen anything I could uae from Fate Reforged :))
Unsure of sideboard, I see people love searing blood, and likely 2 shatters. I thought maybe a couple of archetypes of aggression if I thought tokens would be popular.
Maybe a transformation sideboard? Like swap in 3 rabble maters and some hordeling outbursts and trumpet blasts and ditch the hoplites and ordeals? Has anyone else tried this? Is it different enough to ruin our opponent's own sideboards? I'm tempted to try it...though maybe I should start with the rabblemasters and hordeling and trumpet blasts and then switch to the heroic in order to minimize their drown in sorrow and anger of the gods with my bigger hoplites?
Thoughts?
Adam
Added deck tags, please use them in the future. Thanks!
-rujasu
@Adamjay42:
If I were playing I would -1 Mountain, -3 Ordeal, +3rd Frenzied Goblin, +2 Hordeling Outburst, +1 Hall of Triumph. Ordeals never had that much of an impact for me, and the stated 3cc cards have helped me close out games. 16 heroic effects is enough
Tip: Against decks that are most likely packing Anger of the Gods or Drown in Sorrow, what I usually do is stick 3 creatures on the board, then if they don't sweep on Turn3 dump the rest and go all-in. That's your best way to win if you're red :))
My SB choices:
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel - against Abzan Midrange on the play and Control
2 Magma Spray - aggro decks/sometimes UW Heroic or Mardu on the draw
4 Searing Blood - aggro decks/Jeskai/Mardu
3 Arc Lightning - aggro decks and anything with tokens
1 Hall of Triumph - RW Tokens, anything with tokens
1 Shatter - anything with Whip of Erebos if on the draw
Reasons for changes and why I won't be keeping this list:
The changes I made were relatively on the fly, for the meta I experienced last Friday at FNM. In hindsight, they were kind of poor, but I'm glad I got to try it out. The 4 eidolons going to the main was because it seemed almost every match I've played, playtest or tournament, I was siding them in. They easily won me matches 1 through 3, and easily cost me round 4. For the sideboard I filled the gap left by eidolons with 2 tormod's crypt and 2 Prophetic Flamespeaker. The 3rd crypt and 1 of Hordeling Outburst were because I couldn't secure 2 Chandras in time. Removed 2 Magma Spray out of the board because I couldn't really think of a matchup they would come in against.
Prophetic Flamespeaker is the card that really shined out of the board. If he wasn't eating a removal spell to drop the Rabblemaster I was holding he was connecting for value. Every time I played him people had to read him once or twice just to make sure they were reading it correctly.
About my tournament:
It was Standard FNM with 29 players at the start.
I'm terrible at keeping notes or remember exact lines of play from specific games, it's really something I should work on, so I really only have an overview of my matches:
Round 1: vs U/W Control
I'm relatively certain this opponent is new to playing control. This was made clear game one when he tapped out turn 3 for divination when he had a grip full of cards only for me to bring him low enough and drop an Eidolon next turn where he couldn't do anything. It was an admittedly easy 2-0 with him getting land shorted early in game 2.
Round 2: Jeskai Control
This was a good friend of mine who, last week I lost to in round 3 due to his suite of burn and removal. This week he too made changes to his deck in the form of less removal, more durdle(Nyx Fleece Ram was one he mentioned in the MB this week) and it went very differently than round 1, this time going to 3 games and my opponent one turn off from stablizing.
Round 3: U/W Heroic
Lots of missed triggers on his part. I got lucky game 2 and he had blue Ordeal instead of White and I was able to race his Hopelite. Newer player that's still learning.
Round 4: RUG Monsters
I misplayed a lot this matchup because it was mostly a homebrew. I don't think I really had anything to answer his fatties which he was able to drop early with Caryatids. Any deck with Caryatid is incredibly hard for me to play against purely because it's so hard to get someone to playtest. Nobody wants to playtest against Big Bad Burn. As I mentioned earlier, Eidolon cost me these 2 games by dropping them prematurely. He was able to stablalize game 1 with a Surrak Dragonaclaw(?) and a couple eidolons as blockers. Game 2 I played into a Polokrunos board wipe and got my face stomped by it.
I ended up with $13 store credit for my $5 entry fee and having a 3-1 record at the end of the night. Not too bad for getting back into the constructed wagon. It's currently 5:30am and I was going to post what I would bring to a pPTQ if I were to attend this weekend(still undecided) but I'll say this: It involved Satyr Hoplite
I also run two Shatter in the side, helps deal with some Ensoul Artifact inclusive decks I see locally.
Hordeling Outburst is not just for the Rabblemaster, it also triggers the Denizen and helps fill the field to convoke Stoke the Flames.
Why would we main board Eidolon?
1) Fair enough. I haven't encountered any Ensoul Artifact Decks in my local meta. But there have been a few Whip/Re-an decks, so I can see Shatter's uses.
2) Honestly, I feel like Outburst is maybe a 1 of at most. By T4, unless your creatures have somehow already been removed from the board, you should have a 2-3 creatures already on the board to fuel Stoke. Wouldn't that mana left for Outburst be better spent on casting other 1 drop creatures/spells? And Denizen gets chump blocked (and dies) all day against the smallest of creatures unless you have some other enabler making him unblockable, pump spell, etc. Again, I'd rather be spending 3 mana on a Coordinated Assault, Hammerhand, Titan's Strength, and/or other 1 drop creatures for the same amount of mana Outburst would have costed me.
3) Complete meta call. I was thinking about my own local meta when I made that statement. Jeskai Ascendancy/Tokens/Combo and B/x aggro are huge in my area. I often find myself boarding in Eidolon every single time.
What are people's opinion against UW heroic? I feel it's a bad matchup. They have usually pack lifegain and their creatures can get big really fast. The best I've done is draw vs UW heroic.
nothin you can do much about it, they're protecting their creatures so just aim your burn to your opponents, also when attacking, if one of your creatures get blocked, just let it die, trying to do a 1:1 exchange with their creatures via titan strength is just pointless. just use titan on the unblocked one and hope they don't have 4 ordeal of heliod in the maindeck lol.
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― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
here's the current list i'm running which went 2-2 last friday, only losing due to bad decisions and mulligans.
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Frenzied Goblin
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Lightning Strike
4 Hammerhand
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Titan's Strength
2 Hordeling Outburst
1 Hall of Triumph
Also of note, we don't allow discussion of spoiled cards until the entire set has released. It gets in the way of discussion about the current format -- we still have opens and GPs.
I like you list alot, but have a few suggestions/questions for you:
1) You're running two Shatters in your SB. Why? What artifacts do you expect to encounter?
2) Don't think Hordeling Outburst is needed. You're running enough goblins to interact with Rabblemaster beautifully.
3) Mainboard Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Hordeling Outburst is not just for the Rabblemaster, it also triggers the Denizen and helps fill the field to convoke Stoke the Flames.
Why would we main board Eidolon?
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
As long as people are playing Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix I will play Firedrinker Satyr. Being able to get past them without wasting cards in your hand is huge.
You can just cut him post board in the matchups where he is a giant liability.
Red deck vs control deck
Foundry Street Denizen turn one
Turn two have Mardu Scout
Cast it for its dash cost until control player finds instant speed removal for it, attacking for five over and over.
Maybe they'll use one of their sweepers or exile spells on the FSD, which would be fantastic by itself.
I am the biggest fanboy of this card already.
Double red for our devotion strategies
Can cast it every turn for purphoros triggers
It's just "win in a can"
In the Standard forum, new card discussion is only allowed in this forum. Warning/Infraction issued. -Lugger
Have people had experience with running the heroic version? Clearly it's not as good or else I'd see more of it. Why does it fail?
Adam
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
My plays were all okay haha, sometimes my losses were because of never/late drawing my 2nd land, or didn't draw the lethal Stoke/Lightning Strike in time, and sometimea mana floods. That's what it's all about with this deck, high risk and high rewards. I just cherish those glorious Turn4 kills haha :)) They were Tom Ross's build of Boss Sligh; I just cannot grasp my playstyle in Levy's list haha
The variant Boss Sligh lists I see that make Top8 include 4 Satyr Hoplite AND 3-4 Coordinated Assault to maximize heroic opportunities I don't like how hoplites go all-in and then dies to removal but eh, each to his own
I still haven't seen anything I could uae from Fate Reforged :))
4 foundry street denizen
4 monastery swiftspear
4 satyr hoplite
2 frenzied goblin
4 dragon mantle
4 hammerhand
4 Titan's strength
4 lightning strike
3 ordeal of purphoros
Unsure of sideboard, I see people love searing blood, and likely 2 shatters. I thought maybe a couple of archetypes of aggression if I thought tokens would be popular.
Maybe a transformation sideboard? Like swap in 3 rabble maters and some hordeling outbursts and trumpet blasts and ditch the hoplites and ordeals? Has anyone else tried this? Is it different enough to ruin our opponent's own sideboards? I'm tempted to try it...though maybe I should start with the rabblemasters and hordeling and trumpet blasts and then switch to the heroic in order to minimize their drown in sorrow and anger of the gods with my bigger hoplites?
Thoughts?
Adam
Added deck tags, please use them in the future. Thanks!
-rujasu
If I were playing I would -1 Mountain, -3 Ordeal, +3rd Frenzied Goblin, +2 Hordeling Outburst, +1 Hall of Triumph. Ordeals never had that much of an impact for me, and the stated 3cc cards have helped me close out games. 16 heroic effects is enough
Tip: Against decks that are most likely packing Anger of the Gods or Drown in Sorrow, what I usually do is stick 3 creatures on the board, then if they don't sweep on Turn3 dump the rest and go all-in. That's your best way to win if you're red :))
My SB choices:
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel - against Abzan Midrange on the play and Control
2 Magma Spray - aggro decks/sometimes UW Heroic or Mardu on the draw
4 Searing Blood - aggro decks/Jeskai/Mardu
3 Arc Lightning - aggro decks and anything with tokens
1 Hall of Triumph - RW Tokens, anything with tokens
1 Shatter - anything with Whip of Erebos if on the draw
1 Hall of Triumph
3 Dragon Mantle
3 Titan's Strength
4 Hammerhand
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Akroan Crusader
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Searing Blood
3 Arc Lightning
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shatter
1 Hordeling Outburst
2 Prophetic Flamespeaker
Changes to main:
-2 Hordeling Outburst
-1 Titan's Strength
-1 Dragon Mantle
+4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Changes to SB:
- 2 Magma Spray
- 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
+3 Tormod's Crypt
+2 Prophetic Flamespeaker
+1 Hordeling Outburst
Reasons for changes and why I won't be keeping this list:
The changes I made were relatively on the fly, for the meta I experienced last Friday at FNM. In hindsight, they were kind of poor, but I'm glad I got to try it out. The 4 eidolons going to the main was because it seemed almost every match I've played, playtest or tournament, I was siding them in. They easily won me matches 1 through 3, and easily cost me round 4. For the sideboard I filled the gap left by eidolons with 2 tormod's crypt and 2 Prophetic Flamespeaker. The 3rd crypt and 1 of Hordeling Outburst were because I couldn't secure 2 Chandras in time. Removed 2 Magma Spray out of the board because I couldn't really think of a matchup they would come in against.
Prophetic Flamespeaker is the card that really shined out of the board. If he wasn't eating a removal spell to drop the Rabblemaster I was holding he was connecting for value. Every time I played him people had to read him once or twice just to make sure they were reading it correctly.
About my tournament:
It was Standard FNM with 29 players at the start.
I'm terrible at keeping notes or remember exact lines of play from specific games, it's really something I should work on, so I really only have an overview of my matches:
Round 1: vs U/W Control
I'm relatively certain this opponent is new to playing control. This was made clear game one when he tapped out turn 3 for divination when he had a grip full of cards only for me to bring him low enough and drop an Eidolon next turn where he couldn't do anything. It was an admittedly easy 2-0 with him getting land shorted early in game 2.
Round 2: Jeskai Control
This was a good friend of mine who, last week I lost to in round 3 due to his suite of burn and removal. This week he too made changes to his deck in the form of less removal, more durdle(Nyx Fleece Ram was one he mentioned in the MB this week) and it went very differently than round 1, this time going to 3 games and my opponent one turn off from stablizing.
Round 3: U/W Heroic
Lots of missed triggers on his part. I got lucky game 2 and he had blue Ordeal instead of White and I was able to race his Hopelite. Newer player that's still learning.
Round 4: RUG Monsters
I misplayed a lot this matchup because it was mostly a homebrew. I don't think I really had anything to answer his fatties which he was able to drop early with Caryatids. Any deck with Caryatid is incredibly hard for me to play against purely because it's so hard to get someone to playtest. Nobody wants to playtest against Big Bad Burn. As I mentioned earlier, Eidolon cost me these 2 games by dropping them prematurely. He was able to stablalize game 1 with a Surrak Dragonaclaw(?) and a couple eidolons as blockers. Game 2 I played into a Polokrunos board wipe and got my face stomped by it.
I ended up with $13 store credit for my $5 entry fee and having a 3-1 record at the end of the night. Not too bad for getting back into the constructed wagon. It's currently 5:30am and I was going to post what I would bring to a pPTQ if I were to attend this weekend(still undecided) but I'll say this: It involved Satyr Hoplite
1) Fair enough. I haven't encountered any Ensoul Artifact Decks in my local meta. But there have been a few Whip/Re-an decks, so I can see Shatter's uses.
2) Honestly, I feel like Outburst is maybe a 1 of at most. By T4, unless your creatures have somehow already been removed from the board, you should have a 2-3 creatures already on the board to fuel Stoke. Wouldn't that mana left for Outburst be better spent on casting other 1 drop creatures/spells? And Denizen gets chump blocked (and dies) all day against the smallest of creatures unless you have some other enabler making him unblockable, pump spell, etc. Again, I'd rather be spending 3 mana on a Coordinated Assault, Hammerhand, Titan's Strength, and/or other 1 drop creatures for the same amount of mana Outburst would have costed me.
3) Complete meta call. I was thinking about my own local meta when I made that statement. Jeskai Ascendancy/Tokens/Combo and B/x aggro are huge in my area. I often find myself boarding in Eidolon every single time.