4 Crackling Doom is a must. That card is amazing and one of the reasons why Mardu has good matchups.
this! x4
crackling doom is such amazing removal, can't be stopped with "protection from x", indestructible, pump, hexproof/shroud, etc.... the 2 damage has also been key in some victories as a finishing blow, or killing a planeswalker
I find the six dragons on 25 land hasn't hurt me yet, and I've found it useful to have stuff for the lategame, when the lower end becomes worse. Its more figuring the numbers on Tymaret. I'll drop Downfall for those Dooms and move Downfall to my side.
I'm considering cutting the 2 magma jets and a murderous cut for 2 Ashcloud Phoenixs and a Seeker of the Way, but I'm not sure if they are needed. I've also considered just cutting the Magma Jets for Phoenixs but I dont want to increase my curve too much as its already pretty high, and I want general interaction.
If anything, something I have considered is cutting the Hordeling Outbursts for Thoughtseizes and then running the Ashcloud's like I said, but I dont want to propose anything too crazy.
I love the sideboard, those of you not running Magma Spray I would recommend it. Having 6 cards that outright deal with Ashcloud Phoenix post board is pretty important.
7 mountains may not be needed, but I always want Chained to the Rocks available and having 11 sources that grab it makes me feel a little bit better, and I only have double red cards in the main deck anyway, no double black or white (in fact, I only need White by turn 2 so I have 13 white sources a;ready. I may need to go to 14, and If i do i would just cut a mountain for a battlefield forge.
I find the six dragons on 25 land hasn't hurt me yet, and I've found it useful to have stuff for the lategame, when the lower end becomes worse. Its more figuring the numbers on Tymaret. I'll drop Downfall for those Dooms and move Downfall to my side.
What I noticed most about taking Downfalls out of my list is that Planeswalkers are significantly more difficult to deal with. If I don't have a creature to swing in immediately, none of my other spells can kill or damage it. I had such a bad draw one game, a guy was able to easily ultimate his Sorin, play an Elspeth, and walk all over me for a quick win. All of my removal is creature based, but I only splash black in my build. the BB cost in Downfall is tough on the manas.
What I noticed most about taking Downfalls out of my list is that Planeswalkers are significantly more difficult to deal with. If I don't have a creature to swing in immediately, none of my other spells can kill or damage it. I had such a bad draw one game, a guy was able to easily ultimate his Sorin, play an Elspeth, and walk all over me for a quick win. All of my removal is creature based, but I only splash black in my build. the BB cost in Downfall is tough on the manas.
What about Crater's Claw as a SB option?
Private Mod Note
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
Banishing Light or Claws could be a good option. I took all the banishes out when I put in 3 chain to the rocks. But I could easily swap one for a Banishing light. Against elspeth and sorin, I can bring Glare of Heresy too.
I find the six dragons on 25 land hasn't hurt me yet, and I've found it useful to have stuff for the lategame, when the lower end becomes worse. Its more figuring the numbers on Tymaret. I'll drop Downfall for those Dooms and move Downfall to my side.
What I noticed most about taking Downfalls out of my list is that Planeswalkers are significantly more difficult to deal with. If I don't have a creature to swing in immediately, none of my other spells can kill or damage it. I had such a bad draw one game, a guy was able to easily ultimate his Sorin, play an Elspeth, and walk all over me for a quick win. All of my removal is creature based, but I only splash black in my build. the BB cost in Downfall is tough on the manas.
I couldn't agree more, the R/W/b mardu deck is very soft to planeswalkers and black decks in general as they often have bile blights and drowns to sb in. And if you are siding into a more control deck vs black decks you have a hard time sticking planeswalkers long enough to win a game. I will be switching back to a more R/B/w list for tomorrow.
Crater's Claw is a very poor answer to walkers due to the mana coat needed to kill and up'ed walker.
Round 1: Mardu Midrange (almost my exact build) (2-1)
Great pilot and all 3 games were close. I just drew better than he did.
Round 2: Jeskai Tempo? Midrange? I don't know. (1-2)
Another great pilot. Game 3 would have been mine if he didn't throw down Keranos, which started burning me and drawing him cards while I drew into four consecutive lands (one which I scryed away as well). Again, all 3 games were very close.
Round 3: Abzan Midrange (1-2)
Played against my buddy who's a good pilot as well. Crackling Doom is so amazing against this deck. Was able to keep him off Sorin by making him sac his vampire token and redirecting the damage to Sorin. Games 2 and 3 he turned into more of an aggro deck which was tough to deal with.
Round 4: U/B Control (2-0)
Not much to say. Opponent had bad draws and missed tons of land drops.
After thoughts:
- Will most likely be putting in Banishing Light in the side.
- Magma Jet underperformed yet again. I want card draw, so I'm going to try moving it to the side and bringing in Read the Bones main.
- From the side I'll be upping one Glare of Heresy and dropping one Chandra. Dropping Stain the Mind for something else... I think I'll try Harness by Force.
- I realize that I am TERRIBLE at sideboarding and need some serious help with it.
I just wanted to share the decklist that I've been streaming with and have gotten other people to play. Here is a couple of 4-0s in yesterday's standard daily that played lists I built with Thoughtseize/Wingmate Roc.
I just wanted to share the decklist that I've been streaming with and have gotten other people to play. Here is a couple of 4-0s in yesterday's standard daily that played lists I built with Thoughtseize/Wingmate Roc.
Talk to me about how the Mardu Charm is playing out and your decision to split Jet/Strike 3/3 each. Which charm mode do you end up using most often? All three of it's effects (except for exactly Duress I suppose) seem to be available in much more efficient cards currently in the format.
I played with 2 Thoughtseize main for a while and certainly loved the utility it provided.
Magma Jet is always the first card I side out and I always seem to have extra creatures around, so I swapped them for two Stoke the Flames.
The deck I ran tonight for FNM would have gone 4-1 if it wasn't for a few mistakes on my part in the first game; ended up 3-2. Someone was playing essentially mono black devotion with white splash for Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Banishing Light. I kept forgetting the triggers for Master of the Feast and Herald of Torment, which ended up costing me a close second game. Third game he managed to play three Gary's and I got a little mana screwed.
Stars of the evening were the usual suspects. Outburst into Rabblemaster into Sorin was always fun. Butcher did his job as usual and Stormbreath always seemed to make appearances, even as a one-of. It even got monstrous'd one game. Side board was relatively uneventful as I never seemed to draw any of my side-ins other than Read the Bones, which was always helpful. But that tells me that the core is just really strong. Or at least against the decks and people I played. The Swiftspears did a lot better than I thought they would and I often started with one in my hand. It's very nice to sneak those first few points of damage in. Scry lands took care of them later (or saccing to Butcher). The only deck I got totally destroyed by was a U/W Heroic deck. Got mana screwed and couldn't kill his stuff fast enough. Kept an opening hand with Mountain, Mountain, Outburst, Rabblemaster, Crackling Doom, Chained to the Rocks, and Lightning Strike. He beefed up his 0/4 with heroic and by the time I could really play anything else, it was like an 8/12 unblockable or something dumb, and I was dead next turn anyway.
I have been disappointed with the outburst chain to the rock version of the deck and moving back to more thoughtsieze and downfall. Seeker of the way and outburst are just too poor on their own, even rabblemaster is getting sided out alot. I know many claim that outburst has synergies with the deck but those synergies only occur at certain points on the curve and are often clunky when not played in a certain order, thus minimizing their effectiveness. Mardu has the best power to mana ratio creatures in the format and playing low impact cards I think is a mistake.
hay all i just started playing Andy Ferguson 75 of this deck and i got to say i think hes on to some thing here when't 3-1 in fnm against some very good players (some have won the scg open last season) il do a follow up later. the deck i lost to is junk constellation and i didnt draw any sb card and drew 4 lands in a row in game 2
I like the pressure the deck puts on. I took out Seeker a while ago for more white removal and burn and put in the Swiftspears. My local meta only has a few green fatty decks anymore with most builds moving away from midrange and towards aggro or control. The build seems to do ok there. Overwhelming the board makes them deal with the tokens. Even if they or Rabblemaster die to removal, it's one less removal for the fatties of my own, Butcher, Stormbreath, Sarkhan. The white lets me play Brimaz, who is great out of the side.
I just wanted to share the decklist that I've been streaming with and have gotten other people to play. Here is a couple of 4-0s in yesterday's standard daily that played lists I built with Thoughtseize/Wingmate Roc.
Why Wingmate Roc in this deck over something Like a mix of Stormbreath/Sarkhan's? Does Roc synergize in this better? I haven't been happy with Roc's in my experience.
Also, isn't Chained to the Rocks one of the main selling points of the deck?
I just wanted to share the decklist that I've been streaming with and have gotten other people to play. Here is a couple of 4-0s in yesterday's standard daily that played lists I built with Thoughtseize/Wingmate Roc.
Why Wingmate Roc in this deck over something Like a mix of Stormbreath/Sarkhan's? Does Roc synergize in this better? I haven't been happy with Roc's in my experience.
Also, isn't Chained to the Rocks one of the main selling points of the deck?
I want to like Wingmate Roc, but I just can't get enough of Sarkhan and Stormbreath. Pro white/indestructible aside, they can both attack immediately. 6 power in two creatures is good, but I usually want to race with my deck. By the time the next turn comes around, if they haven't been killed, the Roc/Token can swing for 6 when SB/Sark already swung for 4 and can swing for 4 more. I guess if you drop all the red fliers the Rocs can overwhelm the board. Dunno. I didn't like it in my deck, but I was also only running 2 along with 2 Sarkhan.
Yes, I'm stating this as a replacement card for certain weaker cards in his list.
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
3 Tymaret, Murder King
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Strike
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Stoke the Flames / Crackling Doom
Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Triumph
3 Swamp
4 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Caves of Koilos
1 Battlefield Forge
this! x4
crackling doom is such amazing removal, can't be stopped with "protection from x", indestructible, pump, hexproof/shroud, etc.... the 2 damage has also been key in some victories as a finishing blow, or killing a planeswalker
BW Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Tribal Knights BW
UWG Roon Astral Slide: Cycling and Sliding Based Deck UWG
Ahhhh gotcha. That makes more sense.. I was going to experiment with his list -- any suggestions on what to use it for? Tymaret looks intriguing.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
I think +2 Tymaret is the correct number though I'm just spitballing. I think +3 (like this list) is 1 too many.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Cut 4x Stormbreath Dragon or 2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and 2x Stormbreath Dragon. Make sure you have 4x Crackling Doom. The card is bananas. B A N A N A S.
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Butcher of the Horde
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
4 Crackling Doom
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Murderous Cut
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
7 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Swamp
2 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Magma Spray
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Read the Bones
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Utter End
2 End Hostilities
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I'm considering cutting the 2 magma jets and a murderous cut for 2 Ashcloud Phoenixs and a Seeker of the Way, but I'm not sure if they are needed. I've also considered just cutting the Magma Jets for Phoenixs but I dont want to increase my curve too much as its already pretty high, and I want general interaction.
If anything, something I have considered is cutting the Hordeling Outbursts for Thoughtseizes and then running the Ashcloud's like I said, but I dont want to propose anything too crazy.
I love the sideboard, those of you not running Magma Spray I would recommend it. Having 6 cards that outright deal with Ashcloud Phoenix post board is pretty important.
7 mountains may not be needed, but I always want Chained to the Rocks available and having 11 sources that grab it makes me feel a little bit better, and I only have double red cards in the main deck anyway, no double black or white (in fact, I only need White by turn 2 so I have 13 white sources a;ready. I may need to go to 14, and If i do i would just cut a mountain for a battlefield forge.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
What I noticed most about taking Downfalls out of my list is that Planeswalkers are significantly more difficult to deal with. If I don't have a creature to swing in immediately, none of my other spells can kill or damage it. I had such a bad draw one game, a guy was able to easily ultimate his Sorin, play an Elspeth, and walk all over me for a quick win. All of my removal is creature based, but I only splash black in my build. the BB cost in Downfall is tough on the manas.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
What about Crater's Claw as a SB option?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I couldn't agree more, the R/W/b mardu deck is very soft to planeswalkers and black decks in general as they often have bile blights and drowns to sb in. And if you are siding into a more control deck vs black decks you have a hard time sticking planeswalkers long enough to win a game. I will be switching back to a more R/B/w list for tomorrow.
Crater's Claw is a very poor answer to walkers due to the mana coat needed to kill and up'ed walker.
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Seeker of the Way
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Enchantments (3)
3 Chained to the Rocks
Instants (11)
4 Crackling Doom
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
1 Murderous Cut
Planeswalkers (4)
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Hordeling Outburst
Lands (25)
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
6 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Swamp
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Erase
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Utter End
2 End Hostilities
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Read the Bones
1 Stain the Mind
Went up against all of the major decks.
Round 1: Mardu Midrange (almost my exact build) (2-1)
Great pilot and all 3 games were close. I just drew better than he did.
Round 2: Jeskai Tempo? Midrange? I don't know. (1-2)
Another great pilot. Game 3 would have been mine if he didn't throw down Keranos, which started burning me and drawing him cards while I drew into four consecutive lands (one which I scryed away as well). Again, all 3 games were very close.
Round 3: Abzan Midrange (1-2)
Played against my buddy who's a good pilot as well. Crackling Doom is so amazing against this deck. Was able to keep him off Sorin by making him sac his vampire token and redirecting the damage to Sorin. Games 2 and 3 he turned into more of an aggro deck which was tough to deal with.
Round 4: U/B Control (2-0)
Not much to say. Opponent had bad draws and missed tons of land drops.
After thoughts:
- Will most likely be putting in Banishing Light in the side.
- Magma Jet underperformed yet again. I want card draw, so I'm going to try moving it to the side and bringing in Read the Bones main.
- From the side I'll be upping one Glare of Heresy and dropping one Chandra. Dropping Stain the Mind for something else... I think I'll try Harness by Force.
- I realize that I am TERRIBLE at sideboarding and need some serious help with it.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/standard-daily-2014-11-21
I played with 2 Thoughtseize main for a while and certainly loved the utility it provided.
The deck I ran tonight for FNM would have gone 4-1 if it wasn't for a few mistakes on my part in the first game; ended up 3-2. Someone was playing essentially mono black devotion with white splash for Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Banishing Light. I kept forgetting the triggers for Master of the Feast and Herald of Torment, which ended up costing me a close second game. Third game he managed to play three Gary's and I got a little mana screwed.
4x Butcher of the Horde
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Monastery Swiftspear
1x Stormbreath Dragon
Instant
4x Crackling Doom
4x Lightning Strike
2x Stoke the Flames
Sorcery
4x Hordeling Outburst
Enchantment
2x Banishing Light
3x Chained to the Rocks
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land
2x Battlefield Forge
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Caves of Koilos
1x Mana Confluence
6x Mountain
3x Nomad Outpost
1x Swamp
2x Temple of Silence
3x Temple of Triumph
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Erase
2x Glare of Heresy
2x Read the Bones
3x Thoughtseize
Stars of the evening were the usual suspects. Outburst into Rabblemaster into Sorin was always fun. Butcher did his job as usual and Stormbreath always seemed to make appearances, even as a one-of. It even got monstrous'd one game. Side board was relatively uneventful as I never seemed to draw any of my side-ins other than Read the Bones, which was always helpful. But that tells me that the core is just really strong. Or at least against the decks and people I played. The Swiftspears did a lot better than I thought they would and I often started with one in my hand. It's very nice to sneak those first few points of damage in. Scry lands took care of them later (or saccing to Butcher). The only deck I got totally destroyed by was a U/W Heroic deck. Got mana screwed and couldn't kill his stuff fast enough. Kept an opening hand with Mountain, Mountain, Outburst, Rabblemaster, Crackling Doom, Chained to the Rocks, and Lightning Strike. He beefed up his 0/4 with heroic and by the time I could really play anything else, it was like an 8/12 unblockable or something dumb, and I was dead next turn anyway.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Why Wingmate Roc in this deck over something Like a mix of Stormbreath/Sarkhan's? Does Roc synergize in this better? I haven't been happy with Roc's in my experience.
Also, isn't Chained to the Rocks one of the main selling points of the deck?
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I want to like Wingmate Roc, but I just can't get enough of Sarkhan and Stormbreath. Pro white/indestructible aside, they can both attack immediately. 6 power in two creatures is good, but I usually want to race with my deck. By the time the next turn comes around, if they haven't been killed, the Roc/Token can swing for 6 when SB/Sark already swung for 4 and can swing for 4 more. I guess if you drop all the red fliers the Rocs can overwhelm the board. Dunno. I didn't like it in my deck, but I was also only running 2 along with 2 Sarkhan.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate