With the rotation of the current standard in, the deck has become much more viable. So here goes the primer of the Spoiled Meat.
Note, I am starting the primer up, and I will be adding to it over the next few days with everything I can as far as cards, mulligans, strategies, Sideboard, options, and the different styles of mono green as well.
There's obviously true mono green where nothing from other colors come to contaminate the deck.
So in the primer I expect to see any of these combinations.
Why play mono green?
Because you like creatures, you like synergy, and you want to beat face with the biggest creatures you can play.
While aggro doesn't run big boys, they do like to beat face too.
Why is this called mono green and you have a non green color in the deck?
While I'll grant that junk midrange does have its appeal, I just find running 3 colors to be tough to do. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's tough. Same with Bug, Rug, Naya, or even Jund. Besides, it dilutes the forest count in case you want to ultimate Nissa or use her mana ramping ability.
You said there was Nissa Control? What's that?
A friend of mine is experimenting with G/u devotion. He's trying to use Kiora, the Crashing Wave to control the worst threat, Nissa to make lands into creatures, ultimate Kiora, and wipe the board with Perilous Vault.
I think it has potential, and using Nykthos to ramp up with big nasty Genesis Hydras can't ever be underestimated.
What's the difference between each type of deck? And what are it's similarities?
Ok, here's a great question! I'll try to break it down as much as possible!
The first major differences is the style of play. If the deck runs blue or black, it tends to try to control board presence.
Red likes to build up to be as nasty as possible.
G/w and mono green tend to like the aggressive approach the most.
Those are the differences.
What every deck has in common?
9 or 11 forests, 0-2 plains or mountains. 0-4 temples, 0-4 painlands, or 0-8 fetches.
They also always run anywhere from 10-14 mana dorks.
Every deck mainboards 1-2 Hornet Queens.
Every deck mainboards 1-2 Nylea.
Every deck mainboards 4 Genesis Hydra.
Every deck mainboards at least 1 Arbor Colossus.
Every deck mainboards 3-4 Polukranos.
Most decks run 4 Courser of Kruphix as well.
The rest are flex spots. You decide how to put it together.
Why 3 Polukranos, and not 4? Or the other way around...
Here's the only answer I have:
3 Polukranos makes it lower on the count, having 4 Genesis Hydras is like having 7 Polukranos.
4 Polukranos makes it more likely to hit a turn 3 drop, but a handful of Pollies suck... A lot.
So, to answer the question, it's personal choice to people that prefer 3 over 4, or 4 over 3. But they don't really hurt the deck either way and opens it up to other additions.
See the Unwritten vs Genesis Hydra
Ok, I did a bunch of testing looking at See the Unwritten vs Genesis Hydra. My general conclusion matches my initial suspicions (confirmation bias?), that See the Unwritten is generally worse, and when it's better, it's a win-more card.
Specifically, See the Unwritten with Demonwake Giant in play getting an Eidolon of Blossoms and either another demonwake or another eidolon is a massive blowout (4 cards and -2/-2, or 2 cards and -4/-4). However it's just so fragile and if they remove your fatty in response, it's just flat our worse than Genesis Hydra.
4 Polukranos or 3?
This to me is a similar point to the Polukranos issue. A number of people have said that they didn't like having too many Polukranos, Worldeater because redundant copies are stranded in your hand. However, this presupposes the following line occurring:
1. YOu play Polukranos
2. You monstrous him
3. You draw another Polukranos
4. The in-play Polukranos isn't enough to get the job done, so you need to be able to play and monstrous your new polukranos while keeping the existing one in play
Point #4 is the key one. I find that when I am making my Polukranos monstrous, it doesn't matter than I have another 2 polys 'blanked' in my hand. I'm winning that game anyway. And the best way to win with Poly is to maximise your chances of drawing him. He's also a lightning rod for removal, given he's our main T3 play.
When to SB out Courser of Kruphix?
As Kaiyla says, maybe when you are playing vs Ashiok. However, I would keep courser in even then because vs UB control there are more bad cards I would rather sub out like Sylvan Carytid, plus being able to draw cards (even if they are lands) is key to fighting control decks.
Ratings of the cards...
This card is a must-include in every list.
You'd need a good reason not to play this.
A solid choice that's playable based on build.
For very specific builds or sideboard for specific decks only.
Almost unplayable in this deck, and therefore not actually in this primer.
Land choices for each deck will be discussed here. Most decks have 23 or 24 lands. And while people might argue with the fact mono green isn't all green, it is green enough for the Hulk.
I like fetches for their ability to mana fix. The way people think of it as deck thinning, is wrong to say the least. I won't go into why that is so, but all they need to do is look it up. With Courser and scry lands, the mana fixing becomes even better. But mono red loves it when our lands hurt us.
So, to put it mildly, fetches aren't required, but they do make a nice addition to the proper decks. Just be aware that an opponent may respond to your fetch and Jeskai Charm away one of your creatures.
Elvish Mystic - Our go to for a cheap efficient one drop ramp. Golden Hind - It's a 2/1 that taps for green. In mono green, this guy is golden. Sylvan Caryatid - The best any color creature out there in standard. It provides an early hexproof wall and nobody can fault the little guy from being an 0/3. Rattleclaw Mystic - It provides a 2/1 body that could morph. While morphing is sometimes useless, this one isn't quite as bad as some others. Voyaging Satyr - It untaps any land, period. This guy's responsible for more 30/30 Short range Genesis Waves or 20/20 Fightin Hydras than any of the other dorks.
Now we're getting to the meat of the deck. The beats! Arbor Colossus - Another undercosted creature. While not as good as Polukranos, he's got reach and he can kill flyers. Two very good abilities on an efficient creature as is. Bassara Tower Archer - Can't be killed by Lightning Strike or Hero's Downfall, thus ensuring that we can trade with Goblin Rabblemaster all day. Throw a counter on it with Bow of Nylea and it trades with a Mantis Rider. Post-sideboard, target it with Mortal's Resolve and your Archer kills a Rider and lives to tell the tale without fear of being killed by your opponent's instants. As an bonus benefit, it adds double-green devotion to the board early to power up Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx quickly. Basically, this is a hard to kill creature that slows down aggro opponents and gets quick damage in against control decks, all while doing a great job of powering up Nykthos. Boon Satyr - A flash creature or flash aura. A 4/2 body is always good to see. Doomwake Giant - Super Scary against aggro decks. In the G/b Devotion version, this card will wipe the board almost at will on your opponent's side. Do not underestimate his power to trounce any opponent you face. Genesis Hydra - This card closes games if it hits play. Even if the creature is countered, it brings something else along with it. Heir of the Wilds - In aggro, this guy is awesome. A death touchy bear that can be a 3/3 at times too. Certainly fun. Hooded Hydra - It's a weird card. With morph, it becomes a 5/5 that can make babies. Otherwise, it's a XGG spell that can make babies. Hornet Queen - A personal air force! So many little flyers for one card, and death touch is just icing on the cake. Green has always had two major shortcomings: Lack of good flyers and no efficient means to deal with the flyers when they do arrive. Kalonian Twingrove - Needs to be mono green with lots of land ramping. We don't get much so the Twingrove isn't as good as it could be. If there were say... Rampant Growth or Cultivate, this guy could be an absolute house. Nylea, God of the Hunt - She's a goddess, and has a few things going for her: indestructible, makes your thugs trample, pumps creatures, and is a 6/6. She's good and solid. No complaints here! Polukranos, World Eater - Hands down one of the best creatures green has. He's undercosted at 5/5, and gets bigger the more mana you pump. Best of all? He kills a lot of things. Rakshasa Deathdealer - A great aggro card of choice. When you want a low curve, like the Tower Archers, this guy fits the bill. Reverent Hunter - Mainly used in an aggro shell, but he does get the job done.
More to come later....
Courser of Kruphix - While not a beater, but being big butted and the tendency to pull away from the opponent with life and mana fixing of a sort, the Courser can make for a fun creature. The only downside is that it lets the opponent see what you do draw. An auto include as a 4 of in the midrange green decks. Eidolon of Blossoms - An auto include for many of our decks for the ability to draw faster and gain more answers. She is not to be underestimated in the games you play in, and if left alone she could win the game for you. Pharika, God of Affliction - With See the Unwritten he can get you a lot of tiny things into play. Xenagos, God of Revels - Once in a while he might become a creature, but currently he's a powerful haste enabler. Play a big Genesis Hydra, make him bigger with this god and with Haste to boot.
Walkers are not required in every build, but I have seen these in most builds. I personally like Nissa, mainly because she wins games by herself. Most of the others won't, but don't worry because Garruk's your friend too.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes - Splashing white, even for a single plains, can nab a powerful walker that can get any card you'd want (just about) from the deck. It's worth taking a long and considering look at it. Ajani Steadfast - A good card to top out with in an aggro deck. Chandra, Pyromaster - Slightly underwhelming with a chance to have a huge blowout. You'll never use her ultimate, but you may make use of her +0 ability with a Courser on the table. Garruk, Apex Predator - Sideboard option! Against walkers, this guy's a very flavorful dude. It's everything else with the card that makes it play not so nice. Naya Walkers or any other deck that depends on facing off with Walkers as thei primary focus, Garruk can win almost every time. Against the mirror match, don't despair when your opponent plays a 30+ genesis Hydra, just put this guy into play and gain 30+ life. Nissa, Worldwaker - She's a brick house! Used with Perilous Vault will make life much easier for you. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - He's not what this deck looks to do, but some people have used him. Xenagos, the Reveler - Don't underestimate him, he is probably the second strongest walker for Mono Green. I've used him to ramp, others use him o make babies. But I prefer to get to his ulti as fast as possible because when it goes off, it's game for your opponent.
Chord of Calling - Some decks use this, some don't. I do, and for obvious reasons. Crater's Claws - Don't know what to do with all your excess mana and you just attacked all out and still didn't kill your opponent? Play this card and everything will be just fine. See the Unwritten - Don't take it the wrong way, but I don't like this card. As a sideboard card, it takes slots I'd rather use elsewhere. Some people swear by it as a wonderfully powerful card, but there are times you'd wish you didn't play it. Genesis Hydra can get you any nonland permanent, this one at best 2 creatures if you're lucky. I'd say experiment with it before you make any decisions as to use it or not.
These cards are interesting in their own right, but do not underestimate these. Perilous Vault - In a Nissa control deck where you want to exile everything so your lands have free reign to attack at will. Burnished Hart - It's a good utility card for mono green to make Kalonian Twingrove scary fast.
Card Choices for the Sideboard:
Agent of Erebos - It's a very narrow hate, and has great potential against reanimator and Delver decks. It's either this or Tormod's Crypt. In a G/b devotion, you're maximizing constellations and this creature adds to it.
Bow of Nylea - It kills the Ashcloud Phoenix for a turn, pings enemy hornets, and kills other weenie flyers. Plus it recycles dead creatures and gains you life or adds counters on stuff. I think it's good... Especially with the deathtouch thingie
Hero's Downfall - It kills Walkers, it kills creatures, and it leaves a wonderful scent of brimstone in the air. Sometimes Pine Fresh gets old for us tree huggers, ask Garruk about it sometime.
Hornet Nest - This may be a weird card. It does have the potential to be a pain to aggro decks, or abused vs a huge genesis Hydra and Setessan Tactics or Polukranos.
Hydra Broodmaster - Ever have more mana than you know what to do with it? Ever have the problem of not being able to plow through a bunch of creatures? Make more with the Hydra Broodmaster, I guaranteed 100% satisfaction when you have 15 15/15 Hydras in play.
Mistcutter Hydra - Blue is still a thing, and so this green fireball is still a possible game ender for them.
Mortal's Resolve - This is essentially a green Negate against midrange strategies. People are really relying on Hero's Downfall, Lightning Strike, Stoke the Flames, and various charms to control our board, but just keeping a Polukranos, World Eater, Arbor Colossus, or Hornet Nest alive for another turn while draining our opponents of mana and tempo can lead to blowouts. This card may cause us to slow our game down a bit in order to play around removal spells, but it'll be worth it to see the look on their dumb faces.
Nissa, Worldwaker - Just a great card that must be answered immediately or you will be able to bury your opponent in threats. Good to side the extra copy in against control decks to maximize threat density.
Nylea's Disciple - Gain life and have a blocker left over? Sounds like a good way to buy time against aggro and midrange decks to me.
Phyrexian Revoker - This guy turns off Planeswalkers and Perilous Vault. That's why he's here. As a bonus, you can shut off opposing mana dorks, or turn off whatever creature your opponent has in play to target with Retraction Helix when you're playing against Jeskai Ascendancy.
Setessan Tactics - Sadly, getting rid of a black splash robs us of our access to spot removal via Hero's Downfall. Setessan Tactics is the closest replacement in green, and has the advantage of being able to kill off multiple targets. Side it in against creature-based strategies to try to get the upper hand.
Soul of New Phyrexia - The best way to combat board wipes is having him and open mana on the table.
Stain the Mind - I've been experimenting with this card, and here's my take on it. Jeskai combo is an animal, and right now the only deck we can't always deal with successfully. This card takes their win condition away and they simply lose. I'll take that anytime.
Terra Stomper - I'd rather use Mistcutter. Terra Stomper's trample make him viable, but unless you have Xenagos, he's really not all that good.
I have a feeling that I will finally see mono green as tier one again. It's been since what, Zendikar with Primeval Titan as the front runner? Seriously, isn't it about time we got a little of our own back?
I know there's problems with the lists, but I'll fix it later. For now, this is what I have together!
Some really quick feedback from me: 3 Wooded Foothills is flat out wrong. The synergy with Courser is amazing and even the monoG builds run fetches. The 4th is mandatory.
And now for something completely different.
I think our deck has five different problems it has to overcome, neatly encapsulated in the decks that did well at the pro tour. They are:
Problem 1. Azban: A general weakness to Thoughtseize + removal, where our ramp + fatty approach suddenly turns into slow fatties without the ramp, or ramp but nothing to do with it.
Problem 2. Jeaskai wins: We are crippled by Anger the Gods or multiple spot removals on our mana bugs, slowing us enormously.
Problem 3. Jeskai Wins: Not fast enough to respond to a clock followed by disruption
Problem 4. Jeskai combo: No ability to disrupt/interact with the opponent as they set up in their early turns. We're basically hoping that a T3 Polukranos is better than anything the opponent can do, and in the case of combo, that's just not true.
Problem 5. UB Control: Our gods and planeswalkers are already addressed by other decks cheaply and efficiently.
I won't pretend to have solved all of those problems, but here are my thoughts on each issue.
Problem 1. Azban: A general weakness to Thoughtseize + removal, where our ramp + fatty approach suddenly turns into slow fatties without the ramp, or ramp but nothing to do with it.
Solution 1. We need to have much less high end, and far more things we can do early even when our ramp is burned out. Additionally, that means that 12 mana bugs is too many. Cutting the high end and some bugs gives us more midrange things we can do. The high end things we do with our ramp need to pull double duty and act as either removal or card advantage.
Problem 3. Jeskai Wins: Not fast enough to respond to a clock followed by disruption
Solution 3. The only answer I can see to this is being able to remove their threats, since their strategy of laying a threat and burning a path for it is pretty reliable against us. I think ridiculous lifegain is about the only way we can combat that, but unfortunately I think we're just a really bad Azban deck in this matchup.
Problem 4. Jeskai combo: No ability to disrupt/interact with the opponent as they set up in their early turns. We're basically hoping that a T3 Polukranos is better than anything the opponent can do, and in the case of combo, that's just not true.
Solution 4. I've tried lots of Chords and Reclamation Sage, and it's just far too slow. I think that Destructive Revelry, Naturalize, Consign to Dust etc need to be the instant speed options.
Problem 5. UB Control: Our gods and planeswalkers are already addressed by other decks cheaply and efficiently.
Soution 5. I think that this is plain and simple an issue of card advantage. Nissa, Worldwaker is our best card against them, while other planeswalkers and Genesis Hydra are great. Basically, all of our high end cards are great.
Nylea, God of the Hunt is a card that I have been very high on, and I've been advocating running as a 2-of. But the reason I've been running it as a 2-of is because everybody has ways to exile him in their MD. And once you get to that point, he's no longer the durable threat he was.
So where to from here? Honestly, it feels a bit like all of the strategic problems this archetype faces are pulling it towards being Azban.
What do people think? Are these the biggest challenges facing this archetype? Is the analysis of possible solutions valid? What would you say/do instead?
We've got some hurdles to face against, and these are the strongest ones.
AEtherspouts - An all-out attack against a blue deck with 5 mana open can end up in this card's path. Anger of the Gods - It kills our dorks. Back to Nature - This card wrecks us if we rely on too many enchantment creatures. Elspeth, Sun's Champion - A white deck's go to to get rid of big scary creatures. End Hostilities - The bane of every creature-based strategy. Jeskai Charm - If we run fetches, we need to beware of this card.
I'd appreciate it if people could add to this as we go along, but aside from what magicmerl says, there's a few other considerations to follow along.
vs U/B Pure Control:
We have a favorable advantage over this deck. They can't respond fast enough to all of our threats. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a serious problem child and needs to be addressed to as quickly as possible. You DO NOT want to face your own Polukranos, do you?
G/b devotion's best answer? Hero's Downfall.
vs Red or R/W aggro:
This should be considered a freebie 2-0 match. Side out big things except maybe the Hornet Queens and side in 4 Nylea's Disciples and game on my friend.
vs Mardu
They pack things like Anger of the Gods, Crackling Doom, and an extensive burn package, so beware of it. I personally haven't had many problems with the deck because I find it to be at least a turn too slow most of the time. Of course, that's because 50% of their lands come into play tapped, and 30% of their lands do damage to themselves anyways.
vs Junk
They Play Elspeth and Hushwing Gryff, so beware of them. So if your opponent seems to be holding back, it may be because he is.
Just remember Hushwing shuts off their own ETB triggers too, so I don't think it will often see play.
vs Mono Black Aggro or B/W Aggro
Should be an auto win unless our draws decide to screw us up.
vs Jeskai
Depending on the build this is an even to unfavorable matchup against us. Merl stated problems and solutions, as addressed above.
I like it! There is a lot of good wins by Green Devotion already, and new Standard just arrived. That's good. Did you have your decklist made up yet?
Yeah, my old list lost 6 cards, 4 Burning Trees and 2 Garruk Callers. In their place I put in 4 Sylvan Caryatids and 2 Xenagos.
And to answer the "slowness" of a Genesis Hydra, its power is in getting any nonland permanent. Sure, it's not at instant speed... But it can't be countered. The ability, that is.
Genesis Hydra's one of my best cards and won me games before and after rotation. Last FNM I lived the dream by tapping 3 voyaging Satyrs, using Xenagos, and replacing Nykthos.... For an 88/88 Genesis Hydra.
In my coming update I'll be discussing more as I go and build the primer to be something for when it gets moved up, but the short is I went 4-0 with this deck in FNM, and unfortunately I missed the TCG Player States because of scheduling conflicts and I made it to a GPT LA one instead and I went 7-0 with it. I know the deck works well given the current meta. The only thing it seems to have problems against is rabble red, but that's why I now have 2 arc lightning in the sideboard with the 4 Setessan Tactics.
The chief weakness decks like this have are to sweepers like Anger of the Gods that kill all our accel and trap us below the line of casting our fatties. Is Courser of Kruphix enough to bridge us?
That list looks really solid btw kailya. About the only thing I'd question is the lack of the 4th Polu.
Nissa is something that really is not part of the strategy. She is just kinda strong. Untapping 4 forests in a deck with 9 seems unlikely. She really is about making 4/4's and attacking. Maybe she is just so blunt as to be worthwhile.
Suddenly making 2 permanents worth noticing seems OK. But, she grates with me. She does not seem part of the theme at all. She may well be the right call though. oh well.
Arc Lightning. Hmm. Magma jet is the best way to kill Rabblemaster ATM, but it wants to be cast before the rabble gets to attack, for the cherry anyway.
That can not really be done with Caryatids and Voyagers providing mana. Not if they are going first. Magma Jet is just better, and a bit hard to cast quickly. I can't justify playing it base deck. But sideboard is easy.
Nissa is something that really is not part of the strategy. She is just kinda strong. Untapping 4 forests in a deck with 9 seems unlikely. She really is about making 4/4's and attacking. Maybe she is just so blunt as to be worthwhile.
Suddenly making 2 permanents worth noticing seems OK. But, she grates with me. She does not seem part of the theme at all. She may well be the right call though. oh well. I agree. I think she is just a 'value' card in this list, plus of course being a planeswalker is good when the opponent's chief way of attacking this deck is with sweepers like Anger of the Gods.
Sylvan Caryatid is the wrong call for G/r. Rattleclaw Mystics are just better. 2/1 is SOOOO much better than 0/3. Defence? I am playing Arbor Collossus and Polukranos, how much more do I need? If I am worried about Rabblemaster, block and kill him.
Tapping for 5 colours is not useful when you only need G or R. Hexproof is not particularly important when everybody else is getting pointed at and killed. Being able to block an addro attacker while still getting you to Polukranos mana T3 is very real. Plus an accelerant that can't be killed by spot removal.
Courser of Kruphix is a very weird example. What is the point of having a size 4 bum? Um, Courser is amazing. It's THE reason this deck can stabilise vs aggro, as you slowly start gaining life. Plus of course it draws you a card ever turn or two. It's a green Jace Beleren.
People I trust tell me that once I have a playset I will just keep them in. But, I am not so sure. I have been completely unable to get them, and so I have been playing without them. Ok, so the reason you don't play it is card availability. Please don't pretend otherwise.
There is another mana producer that is not on your list. Golden Hind. G1 for a 2/1 with 'tap for G' Golden Hind is what I am using until I can get Coursers, and I am not sure they are worse. The hinds have been awesome, so far. They provide green mana, they have 2 attack. So, they are just like Corsers except they cost less and get the mana faster. Golden Hind is quite different from Courser, since it's not able to do any of the things Courser does (blank weenies, gain life, draw cards). It's really more like a bad Voyaging Satyr.
I am not sure I want to go the Planeswalker route. The slower march seems fraught. I just took Xenagos out of mine. He is OK. Just not sure. They fly over and kill the planeswalker just seems to happen. Butcher seems good, and goes with Stormbreath Dragon. Speaking of Stormbreath Dragon, he is in my sideboard. Was main, but, well, not green and a bit hard to cast. Rattleclaws help of course, and VSatyrs but even so, double red gets tricky.
I think Protection from White just got important since Khans made everything so colourful. Planeswalkers do slow the deck down. But the point isn't to goldfish vs someone, it's to be able to win vs people that fight back. And planeswalkers help vs that.
I think Genesis hydra is a big girl and Mistcutter hydra would kick its arse every. single. time. Because Genesis would always be one smaller. I LOVE Mistcutter Hydra, but this isn't the best format for it. Black/unconditional removal is everywhere, and Misty just dies without value. Whereas Genesis Hydra provides card advantage.
In fact, I'm seeing a theme with the cards you dislike. All of them provide some form of card advantage. I think you should try having card advantage in your deck, you might like it......
I think the difference I have having is believing you guys are being given this much time. Well, we have more ramp than everyone else, so we can disrupt the aggro decks quite consistently, plus get fatties down before control is ready.
I think that about half the time (40%?) I am not going to get a Nyx. Playing some cards solely because they work great with Nyx seems a bad idea. It is, but there are no such cards in the deck. Voyaging Satyr still acts like a normal mana bug without Nykthos. Polukranos still can 2-for-1 the opponent with 'only' 5 mana in play. It's just that those cards get ridiculous with Nykthos in play.
Now that I have been doing the math and thinking about it, the temples pay off. But. They pay off once everything else is working. Actually, they are best used on T1 if you are missing a Mystic.
So, about 3 creatures in play makes getting the 4th creature one mana cheaper. That is pretty far along for the tipping point. But then it does get huge. Sure.
Adding that Fifth G means 3 land becomes 5 mana, vsatyr makes it 8
Adding that sixth G means 3 land becomes 6 mana, vsatyr makes it 10
...And then you play another Nyx making it 14 mana
3 land, one Vstayr, one dead Nyx, one land placement, and GGGGGG = 14 mana
I say take 15 is the best option. Craters Claws is good, a four of for me. I've been trying out Crater's Claws and while it's a card, it's not nearly a bomb. You've been railing against Nykthos as being a bad card unless the perfect setup occurs. Claws is like that but even one step further removed.
I want to attack with a size Size 9 Mistcutter (or a 6 Mistcutter and 2x2/1 and a 1/1 so, 11 damage). Then 11
Your decks want to cast a size 8 Genesis Hydra and get a Queen. Attack for 14 (+2 from elf, Vsatyr & caryatid) next turn. Then 14+2=16. You seem to have the mindset of an aggro player. Yes, the Misctcutter scenario goldfishes faster. But imagine the opponent is playing their own creatures and attacking us back (maybe with a Stormbreath or two). I'd prefer the Genesis/Queen scenario in that case.
My point is that Haste, can't be countered and Pro Blue are huge right now. Only if you are trying to out last people with bigger board states is that gunna work. If they never let you have more than GGG is play, Nyx is just a really bad mountain. Haste is important. can't be countered is on both Hydras. Pro Blue is not important. Card advantage (or the lack thereof) is important.
Nissa is ok. I am not sure it needs to be in the deck in numbers but the deck does want 5 drops in its place.
Caryatid not dying to spot removal is huge.
Courser is good. It is very good at what it does and gives devotion. It is a lot worse than previously but I think it was made for this sort of deck.
Golden Hind (see Caryatid).. Rattleclaw has some upside when you flip. Hind is always just Hind.. Not particularly great.
If you don't go planeswalker way find something that is worth the investment. Dragon's ok but I mean anyone with dorks can do that. How can Devotion best leverage it's mana? I'm not really going planeswalkers in my RUG list but I have another avenue to CA.
Mistcutter is below rate if you think about it. It is always CMC-1 in size.. like Stormbreath. The card is fine, but compare at 5 mana.. 4/4 with haste versus like Arbor Colossus. The reason you play it are the other reasons that are less relevant right now.
I'm not huge fan of Satyr either.
Crater Claws is good rate and somewhat versatile but it's not that clutch all the time
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Nissa is good in this deck as it makes people play around it as it creates a hasty 4/4 trampler, not to mention if you untap with her with Hydra in hand it is GG.
Nissa is ok. I am not sure it needs to be in the deck in numbers but the deck does want 5 drops in its place.
Caryatid not dying to spot removal is huge.
Courser is good. It is very good at what it does and gives devotion. It is a lot worse than previously but I think it was made for this sort of deck.
Golden Hind (see Caryatid).. Rattleclaw has some upside when you flip. Hind is always just Hind.. Not particularly great.
If you don't go planeswalker way find something that is worth the investment. Dragon's ok but I mean anyone with dorks can do that. How can Devotion best leverage it's mana? I'm not really going planeswalkers in my RUG list but I have another avenue to CA.
Mistcutter is below rate if you think about it. It is always CMC-1 in size.. like Stormbreath. The card is fine, but compare at 5 mana.. 4/4 with haste versus like Arbor Colossus. The reason you play it are the other reasons that are less relevant right now.
I'm not huge fan of Satyr either.
Crater Claws is good rate and somewhat versatile but it's not that clutch all the time
Nissa... When I saw her and won a prerelease because of all three of her abilities, I wanted 4 total and got em. But heh yeah, I don't think she's a 4 of. As a 2 of, she's golden.
As for 3 Polukranos, I run exactly 2 Chords in the deck. That way it could switchblade for anything I want and be Mr Fightin Hydra 4 and 5 if I truly need him.. Reclamation Sage, sure! Soul of New Phyrexia? Good! Anything I want... Chord's fine at 2. I used Mistcutter Hydra for a short while but decided that I needed something more effective in the side instead because I had a feeling I could deal with blue, and I had. Mono blue devotion's nothing like it used to be. As for letting me get Xenagos into play? Turn 3? I turn 3'd with a Voyaging Satyr, forest, mountain, Elf, Nykthos into a Xenagos and got 2 mana up with Xena to put into Nykthos for 3 and got Courser.
Turn 3, Courser, Elf, Voyaging Satyr, Xenagos, forest, mountain, Nykthos.
Turn 4, 9/9 Gen Hydra finding a Nylea... I suppose he could have tried to attack but I had lethal on the board by this time.
Turn 5, make satyr, attack with Courser, Nylea, Satyr, and Gen Hydra.. I could pump 16 mana into Nylea's ability on the fly and he was doomed.
Most of my games ended up like that... Or a variant thereof... Either I get Nissa to stick and she goes to town with all those extra lands, or Xena ultis and I get 7 cards that are mostly creatures.
I played something similar a little bit ago and really liked 2x MD Life's Legacy. Basically there's a lot of beef that can find itself being shutdown and useless, and converting that into a full grip of cards was always a really big play for me.
Other than that comment... I like the red splash the most. With few MD counters being played now, the crater's claws could do work
Caryatid having hexproof is fantastic when there is noone else around to kill, but in this deck there is always someone else to kill.
Rattleclaws tap for red and have that morph bonus. And they are 2/1 , not 0/3
They do not need to power up card advantage because they are already the cards you want.
I will generally 100% of the time cast Sylvan Carytid instead of Voyaging Satyr on turn 2. Why? Because my opponent usually can't kill it. There's nothing worse than having your mana bug killed and the opponent can spend a whole extra turn in the early game beating you down. That's the difference between winning and losing right there. Not only can't you block their aggro dudes, you also can't play your T3 Polu.
The difference between Golden Hind and VSatyr is much more interesting. It really does come down to the gravy aspect of the Satyr vs the second point of offence. The second point of offence can be important on turn 2. If you are sure that the combo aspect of the deck is the important part, the VSatyr is the only choice.
And that, I think, is the big difference.
Relevant differences between the two cards from my playtest games (disclaimer: all playtesting done with Voyaging Satyr)
1. Hind can attack for one more damage.
2. Satyr can untap Nykthos.
3. Satyr can also block rabblemaster tokens.
4. Satyr doesn't die to Doomwake Giant.
Yes it can. When this deck is killing the opponent it doesn't get them down to 2 and then fail to finish them off. It deals 15 with a Polukranos that just killed their whole board, or Nylea that makes blocking impossible.
The problem is that this deck has to be able to function with the Nyx. Losing 40% of the time because Nyx hid just isn't going to work. Playing Satyr just because he shows off when Nyx is already working is being greedy.
But when Nyx doesn't show up, Satyr's still +1 mana. That fact that he's bonkers with an active Nykthos doesn't mean you shouldn't run him. I'm finding it incredible that you're actually using the fact that it has amazing synergy with Nykthos as an arguement *against* Satyr.
The same way i intentionally demonstrated what i think is the best possible Genesis Hydra. 8GG and get a Queen is the best, I think. There are 2 queens, might get lucky.
I have chosen both Nylea and Doomwake over Queen before. And all of the Chord singletons are also valid choices as well off the Hydra.
I like casting Mistcutter at 4G, Genesis dont like that.
This is a good arguement against Genesis Hydra. Ideally your mana sinks shold be able to be useful before turn 6, and this deck already runs Hornet Queen and possibly Chord of Calling. This is why Polukranos and Nylea are both amazeballs. How many are too many expensive cards?
Nissa... When I saw her and won a prerelease because of all three of her abilities, I wanted 4 total and got em. But heh yeah, I don't think she's a 4 of. As a 2 of, she's golden.
I really want to run one but it's so hard to find room.
As for 3 Polukranos, I run exactly 2 Chords in the deck. That way it could switchblade for anything I want and be Mr Fightin Hydra 4 and 5 if I truly need him.. Reclamation Sage, sure! Soul of New Phyrexia? Good! Anything I want... Chord's fine at 2.
Funnily enough, I don't think I chord out Polukranos much if at all. Usually if I want removal I get Doomwake Giant instead for a greater immediate impact. What is your current list?
I used Mistcutter Hydra for a short while but decided that I needed something more effective in the side instead because I had a feeling I could deal with blue, and I had. Mono blue devotion's nothing like it used to be.
As for letting me get Xenagos into play? Turn 3? I turn 3'd with a Voyaging Satyr, forest, mountain, Elf, Nykthos into a Xenagos and got 2 mana up with Xena to put into Nykthos for 3 and got Courser.
Nutty. Of course, that's the sort of hand that you worry when they kill all of your actual action cards.... I would imagine that a Thoughtseize followed by a Hero's Downfall would leave you a little light on action despite your massive mana advantage.
The lines of play that give me problems are:
1. Thoughtseize into removal (which can either attack my mana dorks OR my fatties, whichever I have less of in my hand)
2. Anger of the Gods wiping out my ramp before i cast anything
3. Rabblemaster/Mantis Rider followed by lots of disruption
4. Combo in the form of Jeskai's Ascendancy
Twin grove just isn't what this deck is about.
Lots of mana, not forests.
See the Unwritten is also a fine idea, but it also doesn't fit.
Hydras hate it. Almost, but not quite, I feel.
Seeing Nissa, Xena, Hydra and 5 land sounds pretty special.
Have you guys tried out Boon Satyr ?
Feed the Clan (2) - Instant - You gain 5 life.
Ferocious — You gain 10 life instead if you control a creature with power 4 or greater.
Maybe that is just good for us offense types.
and
Life's Legacy 1G - Sorcery - As an additional cost to cast Life's Legacy, sacrifice a creature.
Draw cards equal to the sacrificed creature's power.
But, again, this is better with angrier creatures. It tips at Boon Satyr, but Collossus is the go, Mistcutter is fine too. Using it on a Hind works if desperate .
I've seen/heard this suggested as before, but the usual response is, it's better to just cast the creature card itself.
Well, if you compare it to Genesis Hydra, here's the pros and cons
pros of See the Unwritten
+ Higher potential upside
+ 8 cards deep for 6 mana is a lot
cons
- very 'win more' (only amazing if you already have one 4 power guy out, and hits two more)
- rigid manacost
pros of Genesis Hydra
+ resistant to counterspells (at least, the 'cast' ability is)
+ scales better: castable at higher and lower levels
+ doesn't require a big guy in play to get you a 2-for-1
+ at 6 you consistently get a 4/4 as one of your two creatures
cons
- none really
See the Unwritten might be good, but it's very situational. I see it as a last ditch effort to win. Sideboard at best.
Kalonian Twingrove could be a house in a mono green deck with Cultivate and Rampant Growth. But in Standard we simply do not have access to those cards. Nissa's Expedition is lacking quite a bit to be efficient ramp.
I have tested See the Unwritten. It is pretty much MagicMerl says. But it's better than it sounds. Like cast with ferocious it puts Hydra to shame. In a deck where such big mana is hard there is a huge difference between 6 and say 8 mana. It's only at x=6 you can really even compare Hydra to ferocious See the Unwritten and I'd say x=7 is par. Non ferocious it's better than hydra until x=4. Basically at the same cost non ferocious hydra is better, but ferocious See the Unwritten is signicantly better until higher mana.
The problem is a deck that can only just get to 6 needs their 6 to always be great. A deck that can afford more mana can avoid the inconstencies. That being said the con of Hydra is I don't think it's worth playing until x=5-6. Where when ferocious See is a good card Hydra is marginal until that point. It's value but who cares.
I've moved on to R/G Monstars, but even after playing Mono-Green Devotion for all of Theros Block I think that 3 Polly's are the way to go. That isn't to say you can't run four, if you like it and it works for you I'm happy, but in my experience felt like it was a dead card in too many matchups when I had one in the grip. It's not bad at all, but I want to reduce the risk of having any potentially dead cards in my 60.
The one other thing that I want to say after looking at this thread quickly is that See The Unwritten is better in monster heavy builds, but if you move towards a heavier splash that utilizes more walkers, I think Hydra is typically better. Just depends on the build (and since it's mono-green, See The Unwritten is typically better, just without a body attached).
Hey Merl...
Yes, Hind can attack for one more damage. It's huge.
Yes, Satyr can untap Nykthos. Thats the gravy
Yes, the satyr could kill the token. BUT. The Hind could kill the Rabblemaster.
It's True Satyr doesn't die to Doomwake Giant. Yes, OK, that might be a thing. I do not play Doomwake Giant. Haven't seen much of it, don't think I will.
Note, I am starting the primer up, and I will be adding to it over the next few days with everything I can as far as cards, mulligans, strategies, Sideboard, options, and the different styles of mono green as well.
There's obviously true mono green where nothing from other colors come to contaminate the deck.
There's also green with a splash of red for cards like Xenagos, the Reveler, and Crater's Claws.
Then there's G/b with access to enchantment creatures like the Doomwake Giant, or even cards like Rakshasa Deathdealer.
So in the primer I expect to see any of these combinations.
Why play mono green?
Because you like creatures, you like synergy, and you want to beat face with the biggest creatures you can play.
While aggro doesn't run big boys, they do like to beat face too.
Why is this called mono green and you have a non green color in the deck?
While I'll grant that junk midrange does have its appeal, I just find running 3 colors to be tough to do. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's tough. Same with Bug, Rug, Naya, or even Jund. Besides, it dilutes the forest count in case you want to ultimate Nissa or use her mana ramping ability.
You said there was Nissa Control? What's that?
A friend of mine is experimenting with G/u devotion. He's trying to use Kiora, the Crashing Wave to control the worst threat, Nissa to make lands into creatures, ultimate Kiora, and wipe the board with Perilous Vault.
I think it has potential, and using Nykthos to ramp up with big nasty Genesis Hydras can't ever be underestimated.
What's the difference between each type of deck? And what are it's similarities?
Ok, here's a great question! I'll try to break it down as much as possible!
The first major differences is the style of play. If the deck runs blue or black, it tends to try to control board presence.
Red likes to build up to be as nasty as possible.
G/w and mono green tend to like the aggressive approach the most.
Those are the differences.
What every deck has in common?
9 or 11 forests, 0-2 plains or mountains. 0-4 temples, 0-4 painlands, or 0-8 fetches.
They also always run anywhere from 10-14 mana dorks.
Every deck mainboards 1-2 Hornet Queens.
Every deck mainboards 1-2 Nylea.
Every deck mainboards 4 Genesis Hydra.
Every deck mainboards at least 1 Arbor Colossus.
Every deck mainboards 3-4 Polukranos.
Most decks run 4 Courser of Kruphix as well.
The rest are flex spots. You decide how to put it together.
Why 3 Polukranos, and not 4? Or the other way around...
Here's the only answer I have:
3 Polukranos makes it lower on the count, having 4 Genesis Hydras is like having 7 Polukranos.
4 Polukranos makes it more likely to hit a turn 3 drop, but a handful of Pollies suck... A lot.
So, to answer the question, it's personal choice to people that prefer 3 over 4, or 4 over 3. But they don't really hurt the deck either way and opens it up to other additions.
or..
Ratings of the cards...
Land choices for each deck will be discussed here. Most decks have 23 or 24 lands. And while people might argue with the fact mono green isn't all green, it is green enough for the Hulk.
HULK SMASH!
Mono green may use 4 Windswept Heath, 4 Wooded Foothills, 4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, and 11 Forests.
If they go red and insist on using 8 fetches, then they may choose to go for 2 Mountains and 9 Forests instead.
Or their lands will be -4 Windswept Heath and +4 Temple of Abandon, making it 4 Foothills, 4 Nykthos, 4 Temples, 9 Forests, and 2 Mountains.
If they splash black instead, they'll most likely use 4 Llanowar Wastes, 4 Temple of Malady, 4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, and 11 Forests.
I like fetches for their ability to mana fix. The way people think of it as deck thinning, is wrong to say the least. I won't go into why that is so, but all they need to do is look it up. With Courser and scry lands, the mana fixing becomes even better. But mono red loves it when our lands hurt us.
So, to put it mildly, fetches aren't required, but they do make a nice addition to the proper decks. Just be aware that an opponent may respond to your fetch and Jeskai Charm away one of your creatures.
Elvish Mystic - Our go to for a cheap efficient one drop ramp.
Golden Hind - It's a 2/1 that taps for green. In mono green, this guy is golden.
Sylvan Caryatid - The best any color creature out there in standard. It provides an early hexproof wall and nobody can fault the little guy from being an 0/3.
Rattleclaw Mystic - It provides a 2/1 body that could morph. While morphing is sometimes useless, this one isn't quite as bad as some others.
Voyaging Satyr - It untaps any land, period. This guy's responsible for more 30/30 Short range Genesis Waves or 20/20 Fightin Hydras than any of the other dorks.
Now we're getting to the meat of the deck. The beats!
Arbor Colossus - Another undercosted creature. While not as good as Polukranos, he's got reach and he can kill flyers. Two very good abilities on an efficient creature as is.
Bassara Tower Archer - Can't be killed by Lightning Strike or Hero's Downfall, thus ensuring that we can trade with Goblin Rabblemaster all day. Throw a counter on it with Bow of Nylea and it trades with a Mantis Rider. Post-sideboard, target it with Mortal's Resolve and your Archer kills a Rider and lives to tell the tale without fear of being killed by your opponent's instants. As an bonus benefit, it adds double-green devotion to the board early to power up Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx quickly. Basically, this is a hard to kill creature that slows down aggro opponents and gets quick damage in against control decks, all while doing a great job of powering up Nykthos.
Boon Satyr - A flash creature or flash aura. A 4/2 body is always good to see.
Doomwake Giant - Super Scary against aggro decks. In the G/b Devotion version, this card will wipe the board almost at will on your opponent's side. Do not underestimate his power to trounce any opponent you face.
Genesis Hydra - This card closes games if it hits play. Even if the creature is countered, it brings something else along with it.
Heir of the Wilds - In aggro, this guy is awesome. A death touchy bear that can be a 3/3 at times too. Certainly fun.
Hooded Hydra - It's a weird card. With morph, it becomes a 5/5 that can make babies. Otherwise, it's a XGG spell that can make babies.
Hornet Queen - A personal air force! So many little flyers for one card, and death touch is just icing on the cake. Green has always had two major shortcomings: Lack of good flyers and no efficient means to deal with the flyers when they do arrive.
Kalonian Twingrove - Needs to be mono green with lots of land ramping. We don't get much so the Twingrove isn't as good as it could be. If there were say... Rampant Growth or Cultivate, this guy could be an absolute house.
Nylea, God of the Hunt - She's a goddess, and has a few things going for her: indestructible, makes your thugs trample, pumps creatures, and is a 6/6. She's good and solid. No complaints here!
Polukranos, World Eater - Hands down one of the best creatures green has. He's undercosted at 5/5, and gets bigger the more mana you pump. Best of all? He kills a lot of things.
Rakshasa Deathdealer - A great aggro card of choice. When you want a low curve, like the Tower Archers, this guy fits the bill.
Reverent Hunter - Mainly used in an aggro shell, but he does get the job done.
More to come later....
Courser of Kruphix - While not a beater, but being big butted and the tendency to pull away from the opponent with life and mana fixing of a sort, the Courser can make for a fun creature. The only downside is that it lets the opponent see what you do draw. An auto include as a 4 of in the midrange green decks.
Eidolon of Blossoms - An auto include for many of our decks for the ability to draw faster and gain more answers. She is not to be underestimated in the games you play in, and if left alone she could win the game for you.
Pharika, God of Affliction - With See the Unwritten he can get you a lot of tiny things into play.
Xenagos, God of Revels - Once in a while he might become a creature, but currently he's a powerful haste enabler. Play a big Genesis Hydra, make him bigger with this god and with Haste to boot.
Walkers are not required in every build, but I have seen these in most builds. I personally like Nissa, mainly because she wins games by herself. Most of the others won't, but don't worry because Garruk's your friend too.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes - Splashing white, even for a single plains, can nab a powerful walker that can get any card you'd want (just about) from the deck. It's worth taking a long and considering look at it.
Ajani Steadfast - A good card to top out with in an aggro deck.
Chandra, Pyromaster - Slightly underwhelming with a chance to have a huge blowout. You'll never use her ultimate, but you may make use of her +0 ability with a Courser on the table.
Garruk, Apex Predator - Sideboard option! Against walkers, this guy's a very flavorful dude. It's everything else with the card that makes it play not so nice. Naya Walkers or any other deck that depends on facing off with Walkers as thei primary focus, Garruk can win almost every time. Against the mirror match, don't despair when your opponent plays a 30+ genesis Hydra, just put this guy into play and gain 30+ life.
Nissa, Worldwaker - She's a brick house! Used with Perilous Vault will make life much easier for you.
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - He's not what this deck looks to do, but some people have used him.
Xenagos, the Reveler - Don't underestimate him, he is probably the second strongest walker for Mono Green. I've used him to ramp, others use him o make babies. But I prefer to get to his ulti as fast as possible because when it goes off, it's game for your opponent.
Chord of Calling - Some decks use this, some don't. I do, and for obvious reasons.
Crater's Claws - Don't know what to do with all your excess mana and you just attacked all out and still didn't kill your opponent? Play this card and everything will be just fine.
See the Unwritten - Don't take it the wrong way, but I don't like this card. As a sideboard card, it takes slots I'd rather use elsewhere. Some people swear by it as a wonderfully powerful card, but there are times you'd wish you didn't play it. Genesis Hydra can get you any nonland permanent, this one at best 2 creatures if you're lucky. I'd say experiment with it before you make any decisions as to use it or not.
These cards are interesting in their own right, but do not underestimate these.
Perilous Vault - In a Nissa control deck where you want to exile everything so your lands have free reign to attack at will.
Burnished Hart - It's a good utility card for mono green to make Kalonian Twingrove scary fast.
Card Choices for the Sideboard:
Agent of Erebos - It's a very narrow hate, and has great potential against reanimator and Delver decks. It's either this or Tormod's Crypt. In a G/b devotion, you're maximizing constellations and this creature adds to it.
Bow of Nylea - It kills the Ashcloud Phoenix for a turn, pings enemy hornets, and kills other weenie flyers. Plus it recycles dead creatures and gains you life or adds counters on stuff. I think it's good... Especially with the deathtouch thingie
Hero's Downfall - It kills Walkers, it kills creatures, and it leaves a wonderful scent of brimstone in the air. Sometimes Pine Fresh gets old for us tree huggers, ask Garruk about it sometime.
Hornet Nest - This may be a weird card. It does have the potential to be a pain to aggro decks, or abused vs a huge genesis Hydra and Setessan Tactics or Polukranos.
Hydra Broodmaster - Ever have more mana than you know what to do with it? Ever have the problem of not being able to plow through a bunch of creatures? Make more with the Hydra Broodmaster, I guaranteed 100% satisfaction when you have 15 15/15 Hydras in play.
Mistcutter Hydra - Blue is still a thing, and so this green fireball is still a possible game ender for them.
Mortal's Resolve - This is essentially a green Negate against midrange strategies. People are really relying on Hero's Downfall, Lightning Strike, Stoke the Flames, and various charms to control our board, but just keeping a Polukranos, World Eater, Arbor Colossus, or Hornet Nest alive for another turn while draining our opponents of mana and tempo can lead to blowouts. This card may cause us to slow our game down a bit in order to play around removal spells, but it'll be worth it to see the look on their dumb faces.
Nissa, Worldwaker - Just a great card that must be answered immediately or you will be able to bury your opponent in threats. Good to side the extra copy in against control decks to maximize threat density.
Nylea's Disciple - Gain life and have a blocker left over? Sounds like a good way to buy time against aggro and midrange decks to me.
Phyrexian Revoker - This guy turns off Planeswalkers and Perilous Vault. That's why he's here. As a bonus, you can shut off opposing mana dorks, or turn off whatever creature your opponent has in play to target with Retraction Helix when you're playing against Jeskai Ascendancy.
Reclamation Sage , Destructive Revelry , and Consign to Dust - Jeskai Ascendancy and Perilous Vault are the main concerns here, but there are a few other targets out there that could be relevant. Killing your opponent's Courser of Kruphixes isn't a terrible thing to do in the mirror match.
Setessan Tactics - Sadly, getting rid of a black splash robs us of our access to spot removal via Hero's Downfall. Setessan Tactics is the closest replacement in green, and has the advantage of being able to kill off multiple targets. Side it in against creature-based strategies to try to get the upper hand.
Soul of New Phyrexia - The best way to combat board wipes is having him and open mana on the table.
Stain the Mind - I've been experimenting with this card, and here's my take on it. Jeskai combo is an animal, and right now the only deck we can't always deal with successfully. This card takes their win condition away and they simply lose. I'll take that anytime.
Terra Stomper - I'd rather use Mistcutter. Terra Stomper's trample make him viable, but unless you have Xenagos, he's really not all that good.
Current decklists of the big tournaments:
Mono-Green Devotion, Calvin Rarie, 5th place
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Hornet Queen
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Doomwake Giant
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
12 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Temple of Malady
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Arbor Colossus
4 Nylea's Disciple
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Setessan Tactics
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Nissa, WorldWaker
1 Hunt the Hunter
G/B Devotion, Michael Kerby, 1st Place
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Hornet Queen
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Doomwake Giant
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
12 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Temple of Malady
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Arbor Colossus
4 Nylea's Disciple
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Setessan Tactics
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Nissa, WorldWaker
1 Hunt the Hunter
Mono-Green Devotion, Chris Laws, 2nd Place
3 Arbor Colossus
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Hornet Queen
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Xenagos, God of Revels
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Mistcutter Hydra
4 Nylea's Disciple
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Back to Nature
3 Setessan Tactics
1 Unravel the Aether
1 See the Unwritten
G/R Devotion, Nathan Koerschner, 1st Place
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Hornet Queen
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Nissa, WorldWaker
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
7 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Hornet Nest
1 Hornet Queen
4 Nylea's Disciple
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Setessan Tactics
2 Nissa, WorldWaker
G/R Devotion, Teddy Clarke, 1st Place
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Hornet Queen
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
9 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Crater's Claws
4 Nylea's Disciple
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Setessan Tactics
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Arc Lightning
2 Hunt the Hunter
1 Savage Punch
I have a feeling that I will finally see mono green as tier one again. It's been since what, Zendikar with Primeval Titan as the front runner? Seriously, isn't it about time we got a little of our own back?
I know there's problems with the lists, but I'll fix it later. For now, this is what I have together!
We've got some hurdles to face against, and these are the strongest ones.
AEtherspouts - An all-out attack against a blue deck with 5 mana open can end up in this card's path.
Anger of the Gods - It kills our dorks.
Back to Nature - This card wrecks us if we rely on too many enchantment creatures.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - A white deck's go to to get rid of big scary creatures.
End Hostilities - The bane of every creature-based strategy.
Jeskai Charm - If we run fetches, we need to beware of this card.
I'd appreciate it if people could add to this as we go along, but aside from what magicmerl says, there's a few other considerations to follow along.
vs U/B Pure Control:
We have a favorable advantage over this deck. They can't respond fast enough to all of our threats. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a serious problem child and needs to be addressed to as quickly as possible. You DO NOT want to face your own Polukranos, do you?
G/b devotion's best answer? Hero's Downfall.
vs Red or R/W aggro:
This should be considered a freebie 2-0 match. Side out big things except maybe the Hornet Queens and side in 4 Nylea's Disciples and game on my friend.
vs Mardu
They pack things like Anger of the Gods, Crackling Doom, and an extensive burn package, so beware of it. I personally haven't had many problems with the deck because I find it to be at least a turn too slow most of the time. Of course, that's because 50% of their lands come into play tapped, and 30% of their lands do damage to themselves anyways.
vs Junk
They Play Elspeth and Hushwing Gryff, so beware of them. So if your opponent seems to be holding back, it may be because he is.
Just remember Hushwing shuts off their own ETB triggers too, so I don't think it will often see play.
vs Mono Black Aggro or B/W Aggro
Should be an auto win unless our draws decide to screw us up.
vs Jeskai
Depending on the build this is an even to unfavorable matchup against us. Merl stated problems and solutions, as addressed above.
Just keep casting those creatures until your Opponent runs out of answers I guess
Standard
UR Control
Modern
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Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Yeah, my old list lost 6 cards, 4 Burning Trees and 2 Garruk Callers. In their place I put in 4 Sylvan Caryatids and 2 Xenagos.
And to answer the "slowness" of a Genesis Hydra, its power is in getting any nonland permanent. Sure, it's not at instant speed... But it can't be countered. The ability, that is.
Genesis Hydra's one of my best cards and won me games before and after rotation. Last FNM I lived the dream by tapping 3 voyaging Satyrs, using Xenagos, and replacing Nykthos.... For an 88/88 Genesis Hydra.
My current deck:
9 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Spells
2 Crater's Claws
2 Chord of Calling
Planeswalkers
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Genesis Hydra
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Hornet Queen
2 Arbor Colossus
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Setessan Tactics
4 Nylea's Disciple
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Hornet Queen
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Arc Lightning
In my coming update I'll be discussing more as I go and build the primer to be something for when it gets moved up, but the short is I went 4-0 with this deck in FNM, and unfortunately I missed the TCG Player States because of scheduling conflicts and I made it to a GPT LA one instead and I went 7-0 with it. I know the deck works well given the current meta. The only thing it seems to have problems against is rabble red, but that's why I now have 2 arc lightning in the sideboard with the 4 Setessan Tactics.
That list looks really solid btw kailya. About the only thing I'd question is the lack of the 4th Polu.
Suddenly making 2 permanents worth noticing seems OK. But, she grates with me. She does not seem part of the theme at all. She may well be the right call though. oh well.
Arc Lightning. Hmm. Magma jet is the best way to kill Rabblemaster ATM, but it wants to be cast before the rabble gets to attack, for the cherry anyway.
That can not really be done with Caryatids and Voyagers providing mana. Not if they are going first. Magma Jet is just better, and a bit hard to cast quickly. I can't justify playing it base deck. But sideboard is easy.
Really? I've always said I would run 8 if I could. If you have one Pllu in play, you're probably winning. The opponent is going to kill that bad boy.
Comments in bold.
Nissa is ok. I am not sure it needs to be in the deck in numbers but the deck does want 5 drops in its place.
Caryatid not dying to spot removal is huge.
Courser is good. It is very good at what it does and gives devotion. It is a lot worse than previously but I think it was made for this sort of deck.
Golden Hind (see Caryatid).. Rattleclaw has some upside when you flip. Hind is always just Hind.. Not particularly great.
If you don't go planeswalker way find something that is worth the investment. Dragon's ok but I mean anyone with dorks can do that. How can Devotion best leverage it's mana? I'm not really going planeswalkers in my RUG list but I have another avenue to CA.
Mistcutter is below rate if you think about it. It is always CMC-1 in size.. like Stormbreath. The card is fine, but compare at 5 mana.. 4/4 with haste versus like Arbor Colossus. The reason you play it are the other reasons that are less relevant right now.
I'm not huge fan of Satyr either.
Crater Claws is good rate and somewhat versatile but it's not that clutch all the time
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
If they cast End Hostilities the turn after your Genesis Hydra, do they win?
Nissa... When I saw her and won a prerelease because of all three of her abilities, I wanted 4 total and got em. But heh yeah, I don't think she's a 4 of. As a 2 of, she's golden.
As for 3 Polukranos, I run exactly 2 Chords in the deck. That way it could switchblade for anything I want and be Mr Fightin Hydra 4 and 5 if I truly need him.. Reclamation Sage, sure! Soul of New Phyrexia? Good! Anything I want... Chord's fine at 2. I used Mistcutter Hydra for a short while but decided that I needed something more effective in the side instead because I had a feeling I could deal with blue, and I had. Mono blue devotion's nothing like it used to be. As for letting me get Xenagos into play? Turn 3? I turn 3'd with a Voyaging Satyr, forest, mountain, Elf, Nykthos into a Xenagos and got 2 mana up with Xena to put into Nykthos for 3 and got Courser.
Turn 3, Courser, Elf, Voyaging Satyr, Xenagos, forest, mountain, Nykthos.
Turn 4, 9/9 Gen Hydra finding a Nylea... I suppose he could have tried to attack but I had lethal on the board by this time.
Turn 5, make satyr, attack with Courser, Nylea, Satyr, and Gen Hydra.. I could pump 16 mana into Nylea's ability on the fly and he was doomed.
Most of my games ended up like that... Or a variant thereof... Either I get Nissa to stick and she goes to town with all those extra lands, or Xena ultis and I get 7 cards that are mostly creatures.
Other than that comment... I like the red splash the most. With few MD counters being played now, the crater's claws could do work
I will generally 100% of the time cast Sylvan Carytid instead of Voyaging Satyr on turn 2. Why? Because my opponent usually can't kill it. There's nothing worse than having your mana bug killed and the opponent can spend a whole extra turn in the early game beating you down. That's the difference between winning and losing right there. Not only can't you block their aggro dudes, you also can't play your T3 Polu.
Relevant differences between the two cards from my playtest games (disclaimer: all playtesting done with Voyaging Satyr)
1. Hind can attack for one more damage.
2. Satyr can untap Nykthos.
3. Satyr can also block rabblemaster tokens.
4. Satyr doesn't die to Doomwake Giant.
Yes it can. When this deck is killing the opponent it doesn't get them down to 2 and then fail to finish them off. It deals 15 with a Polukranos that just killed their whole board, or Nylea that makes blocking impossible.
But when Nyx doesn't show up, Satyr's still +1 mana. That fact that he's bonkers with an active Nykthos doesn't mean you shouldn't run him. I'm finding it incredible that you're actually using the fact that it has amazing synergy with Nykthos as an arguement *against* Satyr.
I have chosen both Nylea and Doomwake over Queen before. And all of the Chord singletons are also valid choices as well off the Hydra.
This is a good arguement against Genesis Hydra. Ideally your mana sinks shold be able to be useful before turn 6, and this deck already runs Hornet Queen and possibly Chord of Calling. This is why Polukranos and Nylea are both amazeballs. How many are too many expensive cards?
Of those only Mantis Rider is scary, and even then you can't block it with Mistcutter Hydra.
I really want to run one but it's so hard to find room.
Funnily enough, I don't think I chord out Polukranos much if at all. Usually if I want removal I get Doomwake Giant instead for a greater immediate impact. What is your current list?
Agreed. This was my experience too.
Nutty. Of course, that's the sort of hand that you worry when they kill all of your actual action cards.... I would imagine that a Thoughtseize followed by a Hero's Downfall would leave you a little light on action despite your massive mana advantage.
The lines of play that give me problems are:
1. Thoughtseize into removal (which can either attack my mana dorks OR my fatties, whichever I have less of in my hand)
2. Anger of the Gods wiping out my ramp before i cast anything
3. Rabblemaster/Mantis Rider followed by lots of disruption
4. Combo in the form of Jeskai's Ascendancy
I've seen/heard this suggested as before, but the usual response is, it's better to just cast the creature card itself.
But don't you ramp into see the unwritten early to get possibly 1 to 2 fatties?
Also how about winmore cards like Kalonian Twingrove?
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Lots of mana, not forests.
See the Unwritten is also a fine idea, but it also doesn't fit.
Hydras hate it. Almost, but not quite, I feel.
Seeing Nissa, Xena, Hydra and 5 land sounds pretty special.
Have you guys tried out Boon Satyr ?
Feed the Clan (2) - Instant - You gain 5 life.
Ferocious — You gain 10 life instead if you control a creature with power 4 or greater.
Maybe that is just good for us offense types.
and
Life's Legacy 1G - Sorcery - As an additional cost to cast Life's Legacy, sacrifice a creature.
Draw cards equal to the sacrificed creature's power.
But, again, this is better with angrier creatures. It tips at Boon Satyr, but Collossus is the go, Mistcutter is fine too. Using it on a Hind works if desperate .
Well, if you compare it to Genesis Hydra, here's the pros and cons
pros of See the Unwritten
+ Higher potential upside
+ 8 cards deep for 6 mana is a lot
cons
- very 'win more' (only amazing if you already have one 4 power guy out, and hits two more)
- rigid manacost
pros of Genesis Hydra
+ resistant to counterspells (at least, the 'cast' ability is)
+ scales better: castable at higher and lower levels
+ doesn't require a big guy in play to get you a 2-for-1
+ at 6 you consistently get a 4/4 as one of your two creatures
cons
- none really
See the Unwritten might be good, but it's very situational. I see it as a last ditch effort to win. Sideboard at best.
Kalonian Twingrove could be a house in a mono green deck with Cultivate and Rampant Growth. But in Standard we simply do not have access to those cards. Nissa's Expedition is lacking quite a bit to be efficient ramp.
The problem is a deck that can only just get to 6 needs their 6 to always be great. A deck that can afford more mana can avoid the inconstencies. That being said the con of Hydra is I don't think it's worth playing until x=5-6. Where when ferocious See is a good card Hydra is marginal until that point. It's value but who cares.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
The one other thing that I want to say after looking at this thread quickly is that See The Unwritten is better in monster heavy builds, but if you move towards a heavier splash that utilizes more walkers, I think Hydra is typically better. Just depends on the build (and since it's mono-green, See The Unwritten is typically better, just without a body attached).
Yes, Hind can attack for one more damage. It's huge.
Yes, Satyr can untap Nykthos. Thats the gravy
Yes, the satyr could kill the token. BUT. The Hind could kill the Rabblemaster.
It's True Satyr doesn't die to Doomwake Giant. Yes, OK, that might be a thing. I do not play Doomwake Giant. Haven't seen much of it, don't think I will.