Tested today vs Abzan Reanimator. Got crushed with Esper, and it wasn't close. Buying back Duress or removal , or a whip, gets them ahead via card advantage. I'm lucky to not have spent too much on getting Ojutai, so it doesn't hurt the wallet at all. I'm going back to my old list with some revisions:
I had this list ready as soon as Dragons of Tarkir was released but I tried some of the Dragon Builds first. Every opponent I've played has said they're not worried about the Esper Match up anymore. Buying back cards that were countered is a thing right now. I think a Sullivan style list is actually more powerful and does have the "inevitability clause" on. I'm running Anticipate as a 2 of to smooth out the mana curve. Trying Silence the Believer's MB to up exile effects. Looks and feels better even testing already. Maybe this is just m style (grindy matches) but I feel like I can reset the board better and buy myself time to sculpt my hand draw via Ashiok. Liliana can tutor or be the last nail in the coffin via Disrutpion, and Ugin is just well...a house. PLA is hard to remove and I actually miss the life gain from returning Radiant Fountain's to my hand. Potential life gain and hand bluffing was always good.
You are losing to any resolved raptor. Thats not a good plan dude. Force at least one utter end main and swap dissolve for dissipates. And i cant see why you would ever cut on heroes downfalls. 3 thoughtseizes main seems like a meta call that gets punished badly.
Just my 2 cents. like your list overall though
One resolved Raptor is not the end of the world; it is still manageable. A resolved Ashiok on my side is a much bigger blow to them than a resolved Raptor on their side is to me. An Utter End would be nice but as we all know the mana base doesn't favour such an inclusion. Going with more white sources is a possibility but I wouldn't be comfortable doing so since it would slow down my early game some.
I still don't understand why some people don't like running 3-4 Thoughtseize in the main. The card gives you information and allows you to pick off something that you might have had difficulty dealing with otherwise or simply a big threat. There's really nothing else like it and often the 2 life you had to pay will win you the game. The only match ups I side them out for are RDW/Atarka Red and I haven't been seeing many of those at all at my LGS these past few weeks.
3 Downfall is good. There aren't many walkers out there right now - at least not where I'm playing.
Killax I had pondered on adding Dissipate, but I was iffy on losing top deck manipulation. I'm considering cutting PLA from the starting 60 and going 3 Ashiok, but that's risky, I think 1 creature is right. I'm going to test it anyway. There is reason to add a 3 crux over Ultimate Price, resetting the board in time to stabilize is important.
The real issue is Den Protector and Siege Rhino + the value Abzan cards give over time. It's taken me a while to remember what it was like playing in the 90's and early 2000. Now I remember and there was a reason Regrowth was restricted in Vintage. Standard is not Vintage, but sticking regrowth on a card that can return itself is a little stupid. Now...what I have seen happen in my matches is:
I counter Rhino (They have Courser out, and are usually curving out to this by T4) (If you don't that is 9 damage coming at you, with a possible 15 in 2 turns this is red zone. If I have a Crux in hand I might let this resolve but this is a tough spot, PLUS is they've gotten early damage in this is lethal in 2 turns)
They cast Den Protector next Turn
I remove Den Protector
They Cast Lion
I Counter or Remove Lion on Sight
they Cast Den Protector and rebuy Den Protector
They Cast more Rhinos and
There comes a point where you run out of counters and Removal. There comes a point where you have actually stopped as lot from getting on the board but Rhinos enter the battlefield and deal 3 damage to you. Over time, that can equal= 12. Over time that can go over 12 if they get Tasigur out and force you to return a Rhino.
Regrowth on legs was a mistake imo. It being cast as a Morph also means is blankets multiple targets from Bile Blight, it means they can just bait removal and counters out at will. It's not surprise that not 1 Esper deck made the top 8 at my local PPQ, and has failed this week to in the last Grand Prix Paris. There is also the issue of 12 enter the board tap lands. In talking with the level 2 Judge yesterday he said
"There were a bunch of Esper decks...and you know what happened? Their 5th land was a tap land and failed to Crux in time to stabilize."
Some missed breakers but the verdict is, the deck is too slow to keep up. This is my opinion though and my meta is very competitive (it adjusts every week, and a lot of players are Starcity games or CFB or even here getting info). Abzan is king and that's not going to change. I refuse to play green lol I have piloted abzan is stupid how good that deck is. If I ran Abzan...I'd rock it week after week because that deck (and most if it's variants) offer so many ways to win, your options are huge, from Planeswalkers to, Reanimator, to Control, Midrange flavors, the core of the deck is Rhinos, Courser, Charm, Downfall's, and a walker of preference (Chose your poison, they have access to the best ones ATM).
So...if control is going to adapt it might be right to main Dissipate over Dissolve or maybe MB both. Scorn was "off" a lot in my Esper games and it was pretty sub-par. When it was on, great! But if there's going to be a U/B dragon deck going forward it's mana base has to be worked out and Exile Effects improved on.
I'm a big fan of Ojutai, but he's not as good as people hyped the card to be. Players do not side out removal, and when you can buy back cards they get ahead, and 1 Dragon vs a siege of Rhinos isn't enough. There is Very little Graveyard hate in standard, and that's huge.
Killax I had pondered on adding Dissipate, but I was iffy on losing top deck manipulation. I'm considering cutting PLA from the starting 60 and going 3 Ashiok, but that's risky, I think 1 creature is right. I'm going to test it anyway. There is reason to add a 3 crux over Ultimate Price, resetting the board in time to stabilize is important.
I don't think PLA is necessary in the main. I've yet to play a game where I ran out of wincons while running a 3x Ashiok, 1x Ugin configuration.
I'll drop PLA to the SB and add in a Dissipate MB, I think Crux can be good if you need a quick reset button at 5cmc. Usually Vault is really slow and has to be fired off in two turns. Unless you're casting it late which be that time you're just cleaning up their threats and exiling their most troublesome permanents. I think the idea of 3 Ashiok actually and might go this route jar75. There might be reason Killax to split the Counters at 3cmc, between Dissolve and Dissipate, maybe 2 of each and 2 in the SB. Point is to have more exile effects. I've been testing it, it's working for me, going to take it to FNM and see how it runs in a tournament setting.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I should say, I don't think Esper dragons is a bad deck, in fact me buying my 3rd Ojutai and getting stupidly excited to run the card in my Dragons build made me feel like a kid again. My fav creature was Sengir Vampire, and Dragonlord Ojutai was getting pretty close to that feeling lol. However, running the deck and getting crushed a few games made me rethink about the deck's current position in my meta.
I should also say, that I ran in a highly competitive store and still placed 5th out of 11. I was 2-0 going into round 3, and lost my last 2 matches, but those matches were blow outs. It had nothing to do with my own skill at that point, but with their draws being stupidly good. I was Duressed 3 times, and TS 2, and Instand Duress via Mardu Charm all in 1 game. So...being left with a Caves of Koilos felt a little under powered. I have my U/B control set up, but I'll try Esper again next week. I haven't lost to an Esper deck all but 2x since it became popular, and that loss was due to decking, and stumbling on my own land drops in 1 game. I'm remembering how to play control (the rust was and is still real, 7-10 years of an absence is long!) so grindy matches are my fav style of play.
Something has to be done about Esper's Mana base, if 2 Urborg is the answer then I'll try your mana base Killax. Also...in my play testing with the deck, Abzan reanimator is very very very hard, infact that might be as bad as the Mardu Match up.
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Haven't tried that card Painter, but i'm not sure it's that much better than Ojutai himself? What's your game play like with the card? Match ups where it's been useful or your MVP? Just asking because if it is good, I'd liek to read about.
Guy/Gals, Tasigur, the Golden Fang seems like he could give U/B Dragons, Esper, and Straight up control so much card advantages in the long run. Have you all tried running him? How's it worked out? Good? Bad? Meh? When I see Abzan players activate his ability I always feel like he'd be better suited in a control deck like ours. I see decks running him in the SB as a 2 of, but when are you bringing him in? I can see his value in the control mirror, but not sure where else, Midrange? Vs aggro I can see him being a 4/5 Body that block everything.
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I run pristine and ojutai with sulimgar. I run more dragons to turn on scorn and foul tongue earlier. I found through play testing (with my meta) opening hand I need one dragon . 3 pristine 3 ojutai 2 sulimgar . In mirror of they have ojutai and swing I just bile blight my pristine at worst case to untapped after attack by my part to protect against let's say white block to kill her mine stays then swing again
I feel like pristine is under rated and really not expected.i usually cast it on t8 to make sure I have something to cast to give it protection and untapped after sideways. I found it works extremely well. Due to my meta is pretty cocky and only runs top 8 decks I find a all round way to win. Runs good in my play test vs everything pretty much. Only thing I have problem with is den to death mist to Phoenix builds but I just side IN VAULT AND Utter end or whatever I find a way. 3-1 is the worst I've done and that's since I've move from true b/u to b/u/w about 3 weeks ago. I can honestly say I am not ashamed for moving and I was only b/u for life
Haven't tried that card Painter, but i'm not sure it's that much better than Ojutai himself? What's your game play like with the card? Match ups where it's been useful or your MVP? Just asking because if it is good, I'd liek to read about.
Guy/Gals, Tasigur, the Golden Fang seems like he could give U/B Dragons, Esper, and Straight up control so much card advantages in the long run. Have you all tried running him? How's it worked out? Good? Bad? Meh? When I see Abzan players activate his ability I always feel like he'd be better suited in a control deck like ours. I see decks running him in the SB as a 2 of, but when are you bringing him in? I can see his value in the control mirror, but not sure where else, Midrange? Vs aggro I can see him being a 4/5 Body that block everything.
I bring Tasigur in for almost every matchup. He turns on too much of your opponents removal to be maindeck, but he's great out of the sideboard.
I should have said if they left in all of their removal. Regardless you still shouldn't be super concerned about their removal post board. If you are you're not playing the matchups right. Grindy games are more about the resource battles that go on and gaining card advantage. Who cares if they use abzan charm on your tasigur, that's two cards they could have drawn.
It's actually kind of absurd that you would suggest that midrange decks are boarding in more removal instead of threats and read the bones. How is removal the winning formula against a deck with havens and dig through times?
Hi guys. I used to play the Shouta Yasooka U/B Dragons list and dabbled in Esper a little bit but found the lists lacking primarily because your few win conditions were so often targets for opponents' removal or edict effects (Foul Tongues, Crackling Doom, etc).
So I've been experimenting with U/B Dragons, but instead playing creatures instead of removal spells and counters. The idea being - turn the deck more into an aggro-control deck rather than a pure control build. This does two things: a.) enables you to take the active role in matchups vs. other control decks and win the game rather than play draw-go for 20 turns and b.) your little creatures soak up removal that would otherwise be used on your dragons, and things like Foul-Tongue are useless against you, and Crackling Doom is supoptimal too.
So this deck plays out alot like U/B except that you use smaller creatures (instead of situational removal like Bile Blight / Crux) to bridge to the late-game.
So basically speaking, the idea behind this list is to take out 1-for-1 removal spells for Hand of Silumgar and Stratus Dancer. Hand of Silumgar is essentially a removal spell on legs because, having deathtouch, he can essentially trade 1-for-1 with any attacking creature that doesn't have flying. The upside to Hand over, say, Bile Blight, is that in board states where you have to take a more active role (say, vs. another control deck), he can present a clock whereas a Bile Blight might just rot in your hand if it doesn't have a target.
Stratus Dancers similarly provide extra value as attackers and blockers in addition to being Negates on legs. Often times if you can play a Dancer early on as a morph, you have insurance vs. a later Thoughtseize, or Crackling Doom, or Hero's Downfall that would otherwise ruin your plans to land an Icefall Regent or Dragonlord Silumgar.
In this deck Icefall Regent is stronger than Dragonlord Ojutai because the deck is simply trying to 1-for-1 the opponent and out-tempo him rather than establish a hard control lock. By tapping enough guys and potentially doing some damage with Hands and Dancers, the can simply win in situations where other control decks would have to continue to try to grind the game out.
Playing 4 Thoughtseize and 8 Fetchlands, not having to play any BB spells MD, and not having to play the U/W tapland means the manabase is much smoother and more reliable, AND Dig Through Time is much more powerful in this deck because the graveyard fills up faster.
4 Foul-Tongue is just great even if it doesn't always get their best creature, because essentially you are paying 3 mana for 1-for-1 card parity and a 4 life buffer that lets you cast more Thoughtseizes or survive for another turn against an attack. Gaining life in this kind of deck is really nice.
In testing, both the Esper Dragons and Abzan matchups have been very positive. Mono Red and Atarka Red feel slightly unfavorable in game 1, but with 4 Ultimate Price, 4 Foul-Tongue, and Drown and Jorubai post-board they seem to be manageable. Other matchups are pretty positive as well, such as G/W Devotion and Mardu Dragons. The only matchup I've struggled with in testing so far has been aggressive Jeskai decks with Mantis Rider, Seeker of the Way, and lots of burn. Mantis Rider is hard to deal with and they just have too much reach.
Overall, the deck feels well positioned and quite powerful, and provides a better way to play Dragons without having to expose yourself to too much of the dedicated hate that people play for Dragons decks (Self-Inflicted Wound, Crackling Doom, and Foul-Tongue Invocation).
MTG Fan, have you tested this deck yet? results? I'm always to reading about results, but this just seems way unpowered compared other Midrange strategies. Our 2 drops (B/U) are no where near as powerful as Abzan or any other color. The 3 drops is a morph, while it enter as a 2 drop it then loses it's purpose.
Not sure man, not convinced but convince us, or me to try it, it looks not as powerful.
Also you have not 1 4 drop spells or play, most Midrange decks have sick 3-4 drops to work with that pressure control and other arch types in the format. There's no Sweeper either I'm not seeing how this is supposed to play out. Hopefully you have some data for us to read. If phyrexian obliterator were in standard then maybe...but it's not.
MTG Fan, have you tested this deck yet? results? I'm always to reading about results, but this just seems way unpowered compared other Midrange strategies. Our 2 drops (B/U) are no where near as powerful as Abzan or any other color. The 3 drops is a morph, while it enter as a 2 drop it then loses it's purpose.
Not sure man, not convinced but convince us, or me to try it, it looks not as powerful.
Also you have not 1 4 drop spells or play, most Midrange decks have sick 3-4 drops to work with that pressure control and other arch types in the format. There's no Sweeper either I'm not seeing how this is supposed to play out. Hopefully you have some data for us to read. If phyrexian obliterator were in standard then maybe...but it's not.
Hand of Silumgar is basically a removal spell on legs. In fact, in most matchups, it's actively *better* than having a Bile Blight or Ultimate Price. It stalls the board because opponents don't want to attack into it. And in games vs. control opponent where you don't need to block, it can provide a clock that Bile Blight or Ultimate Price otherwise would not be able to.
Stratus Dancer is just pure value in this format. Everybody plays instants and sorcereries, and often very powerful ones. If you can play Dancer for 3 early, it provides 1U insurance against Abzan Charms, Thoughtseizes, Commands, Collected Company, Draconic Roar, Crackling Doom, Dig Through Time and the like. And if you snag any of these spells with the dancer, you get a 3/2 flier, which is just amazing value - to counter a spell and get a 3/2 flier.
MTG-Fan, Im liking the thought process here altough I do feel that UB Dragon's isn't the correct set of colours if you want to attempt something like an Aggro-Control build, or perhaps better said, Midgame-Control (in a way like Temur).
The main reasons why I would advice against this strategy is while you do have a bigger threat count and nice maindeck against UBw Control (mainly because of Stratus Dancer) you also have a very low quantity of removal cards who are needed to deal with the Green recursion engine that is becomming a much more common sight throughout many different decks.
My personal (unsalted) opinion about the cards included:
- Thoughtseize, Invocation, Scorn and DTT are all fanatastic cards. It will not be unlikely that your DTTs will see some early play.
- Hand of Silumgar and Stratus Dancer however are NOT basicly the same as "Removal" and "Counterspell". While this might seem so against specific decks who run low on creatures I think it's a common mistake to see a 2/1 with Deathtouch as a real issue and Stratus Dancer unfortunatly ins't a Negate when flipped up but only deals with Instants and Sorcery's. Both are good against Control to some degree but both are almost useless against Aggro and Midgame decks who either stomp through these creatures or see them as even working in their favour (because early game playing these creatures will mean no Silumgar's Scorn to mess with powerfull opponent plays). Removing these type of cards is never an real issue for either Aggro or Midgame.
- Icefall Regent, Silumgar, the Drifting Deatha and Dragonlord Silumgar are all cool cards but again are not really made for a race or even a great Midgame plan. Mainly because Icefall Regent still can get removed, Silumgar DD still only does 3 damage and there is nothing that stops your opponent from dealing with Dragonlord Silumgar if you tap out for it.
So my personal verdict would be to actually go Red Blue (maby add White) instead.
This verdict is based on the following Dragons who race exceptionally well and the spells who work exceptionally well with these Dragons (to protect them or generally punch out your opponent in a incredibly fast way).
- Stormbreath Dragon hasty clock that can finish the game when the deck contains another fair number of 'bolts'
- Thunderbreak Regent the Siege-Rhino of tomorrow
- Draconic Roar additional Lightning Strikes are always good when you also like Dragons and Silumgar's Scorn
- Valorous Stance the biggest benifit of these Dragons is that they are immume to Bile Blight by themselves, meaning only Ultimate Price and Hero's Downfall generally are able to deal with your Dragons. Additionally this card deals with opposing Dragons aswell
- Stubborn Denial Negate's for U work if you add up the Dragon count more and more
- Crater's Claws are an incredible game finisher for an Aggro/Midgame-Control deck
So generally I'd say if you are willing to try something else, build a Jeskai control deck. There honestly is very little stopping you going that way and it does seem that it's more viable and more potent in terms of pool and creatures that work well in a Aggro/Midgame-Control strategy.
PS UB generally speaking isn't the colours who support any form of Aggro-Control. The only real exception where Faeries mainly due to Bitterblossom.
UR/UW on the other hand often support aggro-control plans incredibly well. But that is something for another topic
The beautiful thing about playing Dragons like Icefall Regent and Dragonlord Silumgar is that you *don't* need to lock them down to win the game. That's one of the problems U/B Control and Esper Dragons runs into vs. recursion engines - it can't lock them down. All my build wants to do is just tap them down or steal them long enough to fly over for the win. I've beaten many Deathmist Raptor decks this way - you just win before they do.
I think you're totally wrong about Hand of Silumgar and Stratus Dancer. You really have to test these cards to see what an impact they make on the board state. Abzan either doesnt' attack into Hand, or attacks into it and loses one of their guys, fills your graveyard for Dig, and is set back in tempo. Stratus Dancer is a little like Spellstutter Sprite or Vendilion Clique in that it disrupts the opponent while also providing a valuable flying attacker/blocker.
And think about what you said regarding the green recusion engines... you need removal to deal with them? That's precisely why those engines are good, because spending 1-for-1 removal on Deathmist Raptors or Den Protectors plays right into their strategy and creates card advantage for them. Instead of just spending removal spells on their guys, you should be looking to out-tempo them or remove their guys while generating value in the process.
Again, one of the great things about this build is that tapping out for Icefalls and Dragonlord Silumgar is really easy to do, because you play 4 Thoughtseize, and soak up removal with other creatures, or provide a 1U answer to removal in Stratus Dancer. And you play lots of dragons, so even if one eats removal, you have more.
I think you have to test this deck to really see it work. So far for me in testing it's been stronger than both traditional U/B Control and Esper Dragons... the only bad matchups it seems to have are Jeskai decks with Mantis Riders.
[quote from="MTG-Fan »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/proven-standard/573595-u-b-x-pure-control?comment=2073"]
Comming from the Yasooka build myself, while I like it (and Icefall Regent) the downside is that the clock it represents isn't half as impressive as Ojutai's for example. This is mainly true do to the fact it doesn't awnser issues, it just stops them (for a while at best).
Unless your Midgame (note I do not only say Abzan while I am saying Midrange) opponent 'acts a fool' and attacks into Hand of Silumgar, it is much more likely for them to actually deal with this in a different way (mainly tokens) or you not having the card from turn 2 and on. My biggest issue with the card however is that not only versus Midgame it hopefully works, it does absolutely nothing against Token decks or decks who can include Valorous Stance or other red burn/removal. Abzan arguably is the match up UBw Dragons was build to awnser.
Here's how this plays out:
1. You play Hand of Silumgar
2. Opponent has some number of big threats in play, or maybe 2-3.
3. He has three choices: attack with one or more guys *into* Hand of Silumgar and surely lose one of them, or hold back and not attack, or use removal spells on Hand of Silumgar. All three outcomes are favorable for the U/B player because:
- Attacking into Hand of Silumgar essentially turns Hand into a 1B removal spell.
- Holding back and not attacking into Hand makes opponent lose tempo and lets you trasition into your superior late-game.
- Spending a removal spell on Hand of Silumgar eliminates a removal spell that might otherwise be used on one of your Icefall Regents or Dragonlord Silumgars, which strengthens your late-game.
The only decks that can really deal with Hand profitably are ones that can fly over it with early threats. The only deck that can really do that is Jeskai with Mantis Riders. All other decks in the format either depend on non-flying early threats, or flying threats that only come down later in the game (i.e. Dragons).
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Stratus Dancer is also very, very, very far from Spellstutter Sprite or Clique... I can only suggest you play those cards before comparing them to a creature that needs to be faced down (cost 3) and Megamorph (cost total 5) to stop an Instant OR Sorcery. Again creatures or planeswalkers are not stopped by it...
I've played with these cards many times in the past and top8ed many tournaments in Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage using these creatures, especially Vendilion Clique. While Clique is arguably one of the best blue creatures ever printed and holds its own in every single format, Stratus Dancer is very similar in spirit, if not quite at that level of power. But then again, this is *Standard* we are talking about, which is the weakest of the four major constructed formats, so even a creature *similar in spirit to Clique* but weaker is still very strong in a low-power format like Standard.
While you can aim to out tempo them with Abzan, Jeskai, Temur and Mardu I can say your doing a horrible job if your trying to out tempo them with 3 5 Drops and 4 6 Drops who all have ATK under 5...
It's not about their power, it's about their ETB abilities and the value you generate. 3UU for a 4/3 flier isn't spectacular but 3UU for a 4/3 flier that essentially acts as a removal spell is quite good by Type 2 power levels. It's a great tempo play in this format. 3 for a 2/2 and 1U for a 3/2 flier that counters a sorcery or instant is also a great tempo play by Standard power level standards.
My issue with this UB variant you made is not Thoughtseize but rather the lack of good follow ups.
With Hand of Silumgar being an alternative wall or Stratus Dancer being the alternative follow up you create a tap-out control deck that does not interract with what your opponent is doing whatso ever. The biggest downside of this is that your opponent additionally is free to play what ever he wants, able to punish you with Thoughtseizes of their own, better follow ups (Fleecemane Lion, Rashaka Deathdealer, Goblin Rabblemaster and more) and a stronger overall plan in terms of 4-5 drops when compared to Icefall Regent and Silumgar's.
All these creatures are taken care of by Hand, Foul-Tongue, and Icefall... and then you play your draw spells (Dig, Prerogative) which your opponent usually can't match. And then when you play Icefalls and Dragonlord Silumgars, you are essentially playing threats AND removal spells rolled into one, while your opponent is only playing threats.
I wish you the best of luck with the deck but with some sample hand finish I'm allready turn off by it's potential...
The biggest let down of this deck for me is the anti-synergy between quite a lot of cards. If you tap out for cards like Hand of Silumgar and Dancer, why are you running the Silumgar's Scorn aswell?
For me the biggest advantage in playing UBw Dragons is the options it allows for, all at instant speed.
Be it Silumgar's Scorn casted for UU, Bile Blight for BB, Ultimate Price for B1, Anticipate for U1, Dissolve for UU1, Hero's Downfall for BB1, Foul-Tounge for B2 it all allows us to counter our opponents plays 1 for 1. If we suddenly decide to remove this wonderfull cards for CMC 2 Creatures there is no real point in playing so many high end (Cost 5+) Dragons to round out the game.
Wouldn't you rather spend 1B for a removal spell than 1BB? Hand of Silumgar is essentially just that. And why spend UU1 for a simple counter when I could spend 3 + 1U for a counter and a 3/2 flyer?
I should have said if they left in all of their removal. Regardless you still shouldn't be super concerned about their removal post board. If you are you're not playing the matchups right. Grindy games are more about the resource battles that go on and gaining card advantage. Who cares if they use abzan charm on your tasigur, that's two cards they could have drawn.
I can't really agree with that first statement. If you allow your opponent to deal with Tasigur easily, what is the point of playing it in the first place in those match ups?
You play Tasigur because it's an amazing card. Playing Tasigur for 1- 2 mana and holding up the rest for removal or counters is a strong play to make against any deck. If it sticks, the card drawing ability threatens to take over the game. They have to deal with it or they're most likely dead. It's a low risk, net positive card to bring in.
What I want ideally from my sideboard is provide cards who are a hard counter or heavily skew my opponents plans. Generally speaking for Aggro this is:
- Drown in Sorrow (Aggro catch all)
- Virtuelent Plague (Fantastic against Tokens of any kind, often RDW, Jeskai and Mardu)
- Bile Blight (Deals easily with Fleecemane's and Rakasha's)
- Foul-Toungue Invocation (For the lifegain against RDW more than anything)
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang (For the fact that you provide a 4/5 "wall" that isn't easy to kill with the Red cards the above often also include, granted even here he is just slightly better as high-end planeswalkers or Ashiok (if it's in the main).
For straight up Midgame I actually board in less than I do against the Control and Aggro match ups basicly because UBw is so greatly geared in beating Midrange decks by removing their plays, countering while not having to worry about a clock and punish heavier with boardsweepes due to the fact Midgame often runs a lower ammount of cards that finish the game for them.
Your sideboard doesn't have to be a stack of silver bullets. It's nice to be able to board into more threats and be aggressive. You want your cards to be versatile and you want them to be powerful. Virulent Plague is a good example of a narrow sideboard card. It only does one thing and that thing can be achieved with a more versatile card: Drown in Sorrow. Virulent Plague can't hit non-token creatures and that's not irrelevant. The only time I'd use a narrow card like that is if the meta just went hard in one direction like Jeskai Tokens. I think it's safe to say that's unlikely to happen any time soon.
I am not suggesting anything. When you look at the Midgame lists who lately won you see they are not relying on Read the Bones to close out the game. Instead they can eventually win by recursion as seen in the Den Protector/Deathmist Raptor engine.
Read the Bones wasn't even my main point, the point is that killing your dragons or Tasigur isn't their sideboard plan. Their sideboard plan is to kill you with a mix of threats that you can't keep up with. They're not assuming the control role in these games, their removal is just to buy time, it can't stop you forever.
What I however am saying that the specific removal cards commonly ran in midgame decks generally stay in or come in because of the Hexproof Dragons (it's not the DTTs who kills them), because of this specific removal works better as others. Generally the specific removal that does work well is as above, being:
- Foul-Tounge Invocation (Works great against any Dragon)
- Abzan Charm (Works great against Dragonlord Ojutai and Dragonlord Silumgar)
- Crackling Doom (Works great against any Dragon)
- Hero's Downfall (Works against Dragonlord Ojutai, Ashiok, Ugin and thus basicly all cards we have to win the game)
No, it's not the DTT's that kills them, but it's the card that beats them. DTT and Haven are not easily beaten with removal. I'm well aware of what those cards are good at killing, but that doesn't stop Haven from bringing your dragons back, nor does it stop you from digging for another one. All of this focusing on removal is a Red Herring, and it's just not how we lose to those decks the majority of the time. The deck has to adapt from just trying to 1 for 1 unkillable creatures all day.
To add to that, all the above also works really well against Tasigur. Additionally the Midgame decks also run enough non-flyers who also happen to block Tasigur incredibly well. Getting those additional cards out of Tasigur can be good but only if the 4/5 body cannot easily be punished.
For Midgame decks Tasigur is almost never an issue. Mainly because he doesn't have any form of evasion and generally doesn't compete with the bodies ran by Midgame decks. The main reason for Midgame to keep the removal in is because of Dragonlord Ojutai and Silumgar, the Drifting Death who (in special combined) offer a clock they can't block and only have small windows for to deal with.
Tasigur absolutely competes with midrange creatures: He is a midrange creature. He can't attack into or block everything, but the good news is that we're playing a control deck and just sitting back drawing cards isn't the worst thing that can happen to us.
Do you think you can afford to cut anticipates?
I'm actually on the fence about that card. : /.
Me too but it's good early for hitting land drops and good late for digging through the deck faster. I just don't want to see it in multiples. I've taken it to 2x, to draw roughly one per game on average.
Do you think you can afford to cut anticipates?
I'm actually on the fence about that card. : /.
Me too but it's good early for hitting land drops and good late for digging through the deck faster. I just don't want to see it in multiples. I've taken it to 2x, to draw roughly one per game on average.
I do like moving the UPs to the sideboard in favor of the third bile and foul-tongue main.
I am currently trying to make room for ashiok/vault in the main.
Do you think you can afford to cut anticipates?
I'm actually on the fence about that card. : /.
Me too but it's good early for hitting land drops and good late for digging through the deck faster. I just don't want to see it in multiples. I've taken it to 2x, to draw roughly one per game on average.
I do like moving the UPs to the sideboard in favor of the third bile and foul-tongue main.
I am currently trying to make room for ashiok/vault in the main.
I've done this and haven't missed Anticipate at all. All it ever did for me was make a counter or removal spell cost 1U more, so might as well just turn them into counters and removal. I've also cut Ultimate Price from the main in favor of a full set of Invocations and a 3/3 on BB and Downfall.
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Dismal Backwater
1x Flooded Strand
5x Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Radiant Fountain
4x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sorcery
2x Crux of Fate
2x Thoughtseize
Creature
1x Pearl Lake Ancient
Instant
2x Anticipate
3x Bile Blight
3x Dig Through Time
1x Disdainful Stroke
4x Dissolve
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Jace's Ingenuity
1x Silence the Believers
1x Ultimate Price
1x Negate
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Liliana Vess
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifact
2x Perilous Vault
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Bile Blight
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
1x Dragonlord's Prerogative
3x Drown in Sorrow
2x Negate
1x Virulent Plague
1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
2x Thoughtseize
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Hero's Downfall
I had this list ready as soon as Dragons of Tarkir was released but I tried some of the Dragon Builds first. Every opponent I've played has said they're not worried about the Esper Match up anymore. Buying back cards that were countered is a thing right now. I think a Sullivan style list is actually more powerful and does have the "inevitability clause" on. I'm running Anticipate as a 2 of to smooth out the mana curve. Trying Silence the Believer's MB to up exile effects. Looks and feels better even testing already. Maybe this is just m style (grindy matches) but I feel like I can reset the board better and buy myself time to sculpt my hand draw via Ashiok. Liliana can tutor or be the last nail in the coffin via Disrutpion, and Ugin is just well...a house. PLA is hard to remove and I actually miss the life gain from returning Radiant Fountain's to my hand. Potential life gain and hand bluffing was always good.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
One resolved Raptor is not the end of the world; it is still manageable. A resolved Ashiok on my side is a much bigger blow to them than a resolved Raptor on their side is to me. An Utter End would be nice but as we all know the mana base doesn't favour such an inclusion. Going with more white sources is a possibility but I wouldn't be comfortable doing so since it would slow down my early game some.
I still don't understand why some people don't like running 3-4 Thoughtseize in the main. The card gives you information and allows you to pick off something that you might have had difficulty dealing with otherwise or simply a big threat. There's really nothing else like it and often the 2 life you had to pay will win you the game. The only match ups I side them out for are RDW/Atarka Red and I haven't been seeing many of those at all at my LGS these past few weeks.
3 Downfall is good. There aren't many walkers out there right now - at least not where I'm playing.
The real issue is Den Protector and Siege Rhino + the value Abzan cards give over time. It's taken me a while to remember what it was like playing in the 90's and early 2000. Now I remember and there was a reason Regrowth was restricted in Vintage. Standard is not Vintage, but sticking regrowth on a card that can return itself is a little stupid. Now...what I have seen happen in my matches is:
I counter Rhino (They have Courser out, and are usually curving out to this by T4) (If you don't that is 9 damage coming at you, with a possible 15 in 2 turns this is red zone. If I have a Crux in hand I might let this resolve but this is a tough spot, PLUS is they've gotten early damage in this is lethal in 2 turns)
They cast Den Protector next Turn
I remove Den Protector
They Cast Lion
I Counter or Remove Lion on Sight
they Cast Den Protector and rebuy Den Protector
They Cast more Rhinos and
There comes a point where you run out of counters and Removal. There comes a point where you have actually stopped as lot from getting on the board but Rhinos enter the battlefield and deal 3 damage to you. Over time, that can equal= 12. Over time that can go over 12 if they get Tasigur out and force you to return a Rhino.
Regrowth on legs was a mistake imo. It being cast as a Morph also means is blankets multiple targets from Bile Blight, it means they can just bait removal and counters out at will. It's not surprise that not 1 Esper deck made the top 8 at my local PPQ, and has failed this week to in the last Grand Prix Paris. There is also the issue of 12 enter the board tap lands. In talking with the level 2 Judge yesterday he said
"There were a bunch of Esper decks...and you know what happened? Their 5th land was a tap land and failed to Crux in time to stabilize."
Some missed breakers but the verdict is, the deck is too slow to keep up. This is my opinion though and my meta is very competitive (it adjusts every week, and a lot of players are Starcity games or CFB or even here getting info). Abzan is king and that's not going to change. I refuse to play green lol I have piloted abzan is stupid how good that deck is. If I ran Abzan...I'd rock it week after week because that deck (and most if it's variants) offer so many ways to win, your options are huge, from Planeswalkers to, Reanimator, to Control, Midrange flavors, the core of the deck is Rhinos, Courser, Charm, Downfall's, and a walker of preference (Chose your poison, they have access to the best ones ATM).
So...if control is going to adapt it might be right to main Dissipate over Dissolve or maybe MB both. Scorn was "off" a lot in my Esper games and it was pretty sub-par. When it was on, great! But if there's going to be a U/B dragon deck going forward it's mana base has to be worked out and Exile Effects improved on.
I'm a big fan of Ojutai, but he's not as good as people hyped the card to be. Players do not side out removal, and when you can buy back cards they get ahead, and 1 Dragon vs a siege of Rhinos isn't enough. There is Very little Graveyard hate in standard, and that's huge.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I don't think PLA is necessary in the main. I've yet to play a game where I ran out of wincons while running a 3x Ashiok, 1x Ugin configuration.
I'm not wild about Crux of Fate in the non-dragon decks. It's a mediocre wrath when you're not using it as a Plague Wind. I like 3x Perilous Vault, 1x Ætherspouts personally.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I should also say, that I ran in a highly competitive store and still placed 5th out of 11. I was 2-0 going into round 3, and lost my last 2 matches, but those matches were blow outs. It had nothing to do with my own skill at that point, but with their draws being stupidly good. I was Duressed 3 times, and TS 2, and Instand Duress via Mardu Charm all in 1 game. So...being left with a Caves of Koilos felt a little under powered. I have my U/B control set up, but I'll try Esper again next week. I haven't lost to an Esper deck all but 2x since it became popular, and that loss was due to decking, and stumbling on my own land drops in 1 game. I'm remembering how to play control (the rust was and is still real, 7-10 years of an absence is long!) so grindy matches are my fav style of play.
Something has to be done about Esper's Mana base, if 2 Urborg is the answer then I'll try your mana base Killax. Also...in my play testing with the deck, Abzan reanimator is very very very hard, infact that might be as bad as the Mardu Match up.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Guy/Gals, Tasigur, the Golden Fang seems like he could give U/B Dragons, Esper, and Straight up control so much card advantages in the long run. Have you all tried running him? How's it worked out? Good? Bad? Meh? When I see Abzan players activate his ability I always feel like he'd be better suited in a control deck like ours. I see decks running him in the SB as a 2 of, but when are you bringing him in? I can see his value in the control mirror, but not sure where else, Midrange? Vs aggro I can see him being a 4/5 Body that block everything.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I bring Tasigur in for almost every matchup. He turns on too much of your opponents removal to be maindeck, but he's great out of the sideboard.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
It's actually kind of absurd that you would suggest that midrange decks are boarding in more removal instead of threats and read the bones. How is removal the winning formula against a deck with havens and dig through times?
So I've been experimenting with U/B Dragons, but instead playing creatures instead of removal spells and counters. The idea being - turn the deck more into an aggro-control deck rather than a pure control build. This does two things: a.) enables you to take the active role in matchups vs. other control decks and win the game rather than play draw-go for 20 turns and b.) your little creatures soak up removal that would otherwise be used on your dragons, and things like Foul-Tongue are useless against you, and Crackling Doom is supoptimal too.
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Thoughtseize
4 Foul-Tongue Invocation
4 Silumgar's Scorn
4 Dig Through Time
4 Stratus Dancer
3 Icefall Regent
3 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Duress
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Jorubai Murk Lurker
2 Virulent Plague
So this deck plays out alot like U/B except that you use smaller creatures (instead of situational removal like Bile Blight / Crux) to bridge to the late-game.
So basically speaking, the idea behind this list is to take out 1-for-1 removal spells for Hand of Silumgar and Stratus Dancer. Hand of Silumgar is essentially a removal spell on legs because, having deathtouch, he can essentially trade 1-for-1 with any attacking creature that doesn't have flying. The upside to Hand over, say, Bile Blight, is that in board states where you have to take a more active role (say, vs. another control deck), he can present a clock whereas a Bile Blight might just rot in your hand if it doesn't have a target.
Stratus Dancers similarly provide extra value as attackers and blockers in addition to being Negates on legs. Often times if you can play a Dancer early on as a morph, you have insurance vs. a later Thoughtseize, or Crackling Doom, or Hero's Downfall that would otherwise ruin your plans to land an Icefall Regent or Dragonlord Silumgar.
In this deck Icefall Regent is stronger than Dragonlord Ojutai because the deck is simply trying to 1-for-1 the opponent and out-tempo him rather than establish a hard control lock. By tapping enough guys and potentially doing some damage with Hands and Dancers, the can simply win in situations where other control decks would have to continue to try to grind the game out.
Playing 4 Thoughtseize and 8 Fetchlands, not having to play any BB spells MD, and not having to play the U/W tapland means the manabase is much smoother and more reliable, AND Dig Through Time is much more powerful in this deck because the graveyard fills up faster.
4 Foul-Tongue is just great even if it doesn't always get their best creature, because essentially you are paying 3 mana for 1-for-1 card parity and a 4 life buffer that lets you cast more Thoughtseizes or survive for another turn against an attack. Gaining life in this kind of deck is really nice.
In testing, both the Esper Dragons and Abzan matchups have been very positive. Mono Red and Atarka Red feel slightly unfavorable in game 1, but with 4 Ultimate Price, 4 Foul-Tongue, and Drown and Jorubai post-board they seem to be manageable. Other matchups are pretty positive as well, such as G/W Devotion and Mardu Dragons. The only matchup I've struggled with in testing so far has been aggressive Jeskai decks with Mantis Rider, Seeker of the Way, and lots of burn. Mantis Rider is hard to deal with and they just have too much reach.
Overall, the deck feels well positioned and quite powerful, and provides a better way to play Dragons without having to expose yourself to too much of the dedicated hate that people play for Dragons decks (Self-Inflicted Wound, Crackling Doom, and Foul-Tongue Invocation).
Not sure man, not convinced but convince us, or me to try it, it looks not as powerful.
Also you have not 1 4 drop spells or play, most Midrange decks have sick 3-4 drops to work with that pressure control and other arch types in the format. There's no Sweeper either I'm not seeing how this is supposed to play out. Hopefully you have some data for us to read. If phyrexian obliterator were in standard then maybe...but it's not.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Hand of Silumgar is basically a removal spell on legs. In fact, in most matchups, it's actively *better* than having a Bile Blight or Ultimate Price. It stalls the board because opponents don't want to attack into it. And in games vs. control opponent where you don't need to block, it can provide a clock that Bile Blight or Ultimate Price otherwise would not be able to.
Stratus Dancer is just pure value in this format. Everybody plays instants and sorcereries, and often very powerful ones. If you can play Dancer for 3 early, it provides 1U insurance against Abzan Charms, Thoughtseizes, Commands, Collected Company, Draconic Roar, Crackling Doom, Dig Through Time and the like. And if you snag any of these spells with the dancer, you get a 3/2 flier, which is just amazing value - to counter a spell and get a 3/2 flier.
The beautiful thing about playing Dragons like Icefall Regent and Dragonlord Silumgar is that you *don't* need to lock them down to win the game. That's one of the problems U/B Control and Esper Dragons runs into vs. recursion engines - it can't lock them down. All my build wants to do is just tap them down or steal them long enough to fly over for the win. I've beaten many Deathmist Raptor decks this way - you just win before they do.
I think you're totally wrong about Hand of Silumgar and Stratus Dancer. You really have to test these cards to see what an impact they make on the board state. Abzan either doesnt' attack into Hand, or attacks into it and loses one of their guys, fills your graveyard for Dig, and is set back in tempo. Stratus Dancer is a little like Spellstutter Sprite or Vendilion Clique in that it disrupts the opponent while also providing a valuable flying attacker/blocker.
And think about what you said regarding the green recusion engines... you need removal to deal with them? That's precisely why those engines are good, because spending 1-for-1 removal on Deathmist Raptors or Den Protectors plays right into their strategy and creates card advantage for them. Instead of just spending removal spells on their guys, you should be looking to out-tempo them or remove their guys while generating value in the process.
Again, one of the great things about this build is that tapping out for Icefalls and Dragonlord Silumgar is really easy to do, because you play 4 Thoughtseize, and soak up removal with other creatures, or provide a 1U answer to removal in Stratus Dancer. And you play lots of dragons, so even if one eats removal, you have more.
I think you have to test this deck to really see it work. So far for me in testing it's been stronger than both traditional U/B Control and Esper Dragons... the only bad matchups it seems to have are Jeskai decks with Mantis Riders.
Here's how this plays out:
1. You play Hand of Silumgar
2. Opponent has some number of big threats in play, or maybe 2-3.
3. He has three choices: attack with one or more guys *into* Hand of Silumgar and surely lose one of them, or hold back and not attack, or use removal spells on Hand of Silumgar. All three outcomes are favorable for the U/B player because:
- Attacking into Hand of Silumgar essentially turns Hand into a 1B removal spell.
- Holding back and not attacking into Hand makes opponent lose tempo and lets you trasition into your superior late-game.
- Spending a removal spell on Hand of Silumgar eliminates a removal spell that might otherwise be used on one of your Icefall Regents or Dragonlord Silumgars, which strengthens your late-game.
The only decks that can really deal with Hand profitably are ones that can fly over it with early threats. The only deck that can really do that is Jeskai with Mantis Riders. All other decks in the format either depend on non-flying early threats, or flying threats that only come down later in the game (i.e. Dragons).
I've played with these cards many times in the past and top8ed many tournaments in Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage using these creatures, especially Vendilion Clique. While Clique is arguably one of the best blue creatures ever printed and holds its own in every single format, Stratus Dancer is very similar in spirit, if not quite at that level of power. But then again, this is *Standard* we are talking about, which is the weakest of the four major constructed formats, so even a creature *similar in spirit to Clique* but weaker is still very strong in a low-power format like Standard.
It's not about their power, it's about their ETB abilities and the value you generate. 3UU for a 4/3 flier isn't spectacular but 3UU for a 4/3 flier that essentially acts as a removal spell is quite good by Type 2 power levels. It's a great tempo play in this format. 3 for a 2/2 and 1U for a 3/2 flier that counters a sorcery or instant is also a great tempo play by Standard power level standards.
All these creatures are taken care of by Hand, Foul-Tongue, and Icefall... and then you play your draw spells (Dig, Prerogative) which your opponent usually can't match. And then when you play Icefalls and Dragonlord Silumgars, you are essentially playing threats AND removal spells rolled into one, while your opponent is only playing threats.
Wouldn't you rather spend 1B for a removal spell than 1BB? Hand of Silumgar is essentially just that. And why spend UU1 for a simple counter when I could spend 3 + 1U for a counter and a 3/2 flyer?
You play Tasigur because it's an amazing card. Playing Tasigur for 1- 2 mana and holding up the rest for removal or counters is a strong play to make against any deck. If it sticks, the card drawing ability threatens to take over the game. They have to deal with it or they're most likely dead. It's a low risk, net positive card to bring in.
Your sideboard doesn't have to be a stack of silver bullets. It's nice to be able to board into more threats and be aggressive. You want your cards to be versatile and you want them to be powerful. Virulent Plague is a good example of a narrow sideboard card. It only does one thing and that thing can be achieved with a more versatile card: Drown in Sorrow. Virulent Plague can't hit non-token creatures and that's not irrelevant. The only time I'd use a narrow card like that is if the meta just went hard in one direction like Jeskai Tokens. I think it's safe to say that's unlikely to happen any time soon.
Read the Bones wasn't even my main point, the point is that killing your dragons or Tasigur isn't their sideboard plan. Their sideboard plan is to kill you with a mix of threats that you can't keep up with. They're not assuming the control role in these games, their removal is just to buy time, it can't stop you forever.
No, it's not the DTT's that kills them, but it's the card that beats them. DTT and Haven are not easily beaten with removal. I'm well aware of what those cards are good at killing, but that doesn't stop Haven from bringing your dragons back, nor does it stop you from digging for another one. All of this focusing on removal is a Red Herring, and it's just not how we lose to those decks the majority of the time. The deck has to adapt from just trying to 1 for 1 unkillable creatures all day.
Tasigur absolutely competes with midrange creatures: He is a midrange creature. He can't attack into or block everything, but the good news is that we're playing a control deck and just sitting back drawing cards isn't the worst thing that can happen to us.
I'm actually on the fence about that card. : /.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Me too but it's good early for hitting land drops and good late for digging through the deck faster. I just don't want to see it in multiples. I've taken it to 2x, to draw roughly one per game on average.
I do like moving the UPs to the sideboard in favor of the third bile and foul-tongue main.
I am currently trying to make room for ashiok/vault in the main.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I've done this and haven't missed Anticipate at all. All it ever did for me was make a counter or removal spell cost 1U more, so might as well just turn them into counters and removal. I've also cut Ultimate Price from the main in favor of a full set of Invocations and a 3/3 on BB and Downfall.
Here's my current list:
3x Dragonlord Ojutai
3x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
PW's
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Removal
4x Foul-Tongue Invocation
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Bile Blight
2x Crux of Fate
Counter
4x Silumgar's Scorn
3x Dissolve
4x Dig Through Time
1x Dragonlord's Prerogative
Mana
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Dismal Backwater
4x Polluted Delta
3x Temple of Enlightenment
3x Island
2x Swamp
2x Caves of Koilos
2x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Drown in Sorrow
2x Virulent Plague
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Risen Executioner
2x Negate
1x Stratus Dancer
1x Dragonlord's Prerogative
2x Cranial Archive
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA