If people are struggling with mana, why not replace a few Battlefield Forge/Shivan Reef with Mana Confluence? Has this been tested? I understand Forge/Reef can tap for colorless, but if there has been a major deficiency in the deck's construction in my experience, it has been the mana base.
If people are struggling with mana, why not replace a few Battlefield Forge/Shivan Reef with Mana Confluence? Has this been tested? I understand Forge/Reef can tap for colorless, but if there has been a major deficiency in the deck's construction in my experience, it has been the mana base.
I feel like the mana is only a problem for the people trying to jam Brimaz, Sarkhan, and Dig Through Time, forcinf double colors of each in your deck, while also trying to cast 3 color spells like Mantis Rider and Charm. Gets pretty greedy, i think Outburst is in the same boat.
Hordeling and Sarkhan should never hurt your manabase or stretch it by anymeans. Only lands that dont tap for lands that are being run is basic plains/island and the fetches. Thats it. Every other land taps for red.
The problem I see with Brimaz isnt soo much his double white is that he demands double white early. I've never had a problem casting end hostilities before but I could see a few times me not being able to cast brimaz.
And Dig through time generally isnt an issue, but I have had my blue restricted a few times.
All in all I think our manabase isnt fine and that isnt the area that needs work nor discussion about IMO. If you run 8 tapped lands, play some number of mana confluence. If not you can get away with up to 10 come into play tapped lands.
Anyone found anything to help the Temur Matchup? So far i've found Suspension field to help a ton in that matchup besides stormbreath dragon, which if you arent playing sarkhan can be a problem.
Play late game, board in counterspells, End Hostilities, Suspension Fields, and make sure not to cut Stokes. Anger is very effective as well, as it kills Ashclouds dead. Don't blink first, and the game is quite winnable.
Temur, for me, falls into the Mardu category. It is essentially a mirror and dont blink first, like iemsparticus said right above me. Our burn works on all their creatures and Polukranos is a perfect bounce to top of the library target. We even have multiple ways to deal with opposing Dragons with Sarkhan and Stoke. I usually only board in Magma Sprays (for mana dorks, Heor of the Wild, and the Phoenix) and Suspension Fields.
Sure, if you dont have the right burn spell for the job it can be tough, but otherwise it is a pretty normal matchup. The only thing annoying is if they are on the play and can get a turn 3 Knuck while you only have 2 mana up. But lets be honest, this Standard is ridiculously more geared to going first than any other Standard ive played in, so you sort of expect to get blown out game 1 not playing first.
I've found that the T2 knuckleblade games are so backbreaking that it's almost not worth devoting 6 slots to sideboard (3 magma sprays, 3 suspension fields). I don't know how else to overcome that kind of start though.
I guess i just havent had that happen enough yet. A turn 2 Knuck would have to be on their play since I'm killing any elvish mystic if i went first. Just seems rare, opponent can have that game, but it still isnt an auto win. Knuck has never given me too much trouble yet, and I've played a lot of games online. He doesnt have trample, so he is chumpable, he is a great bounce target if they get greedy and pump him, he doesnt evade or even haste unless you pay 4... he is just a big dumb 4/4, IMO, killable and raceable, since he doesnt drain you for 3 when he comes into play.
Yep I lost to Temur purely on the dice roll at the start and even told my opponent so and he agreed that it was a big factor.
Game 1 - Savage Knuckleblade x 3 and then Keranos, God of Storms. Every single time he flipped for Keranos it was a non land card so he was doing me 3 on top of drawing gas every turn. Needless to say this game was totally unwinnable
Game 2 - Mantis Rider by itself went all the way while I just used other cards to deal with his threats. Stoke the Flames his Stormbreath Dragon. Finished him off with a Lightning Strike. Couldn't have been a more emphatic victory. Just crushed him.
Game 3 - Got into a bit of a grind until I attacked with Seeker of the Way into open mana and got punished by a flashed in Surrak Dragonclaw. It was all downhill for me from there. I wasted a Banishing Light on a Rattleclaw Mystic getting duped into thinking it was Sagu Mauler which I knew he had in his deck. Then the Sagu Mauler came out and I got beat to death by 2 6/6s in quick order.
If I wasn't having to be so reactive in game 3 things would have been different. Never getting a chance to get on the front foot just puts you on a path to losing.
The rest of the night I went 2-0, 2-0 against bad decks (RW midrange with not enough lands and Abzan outlast) and 1-1 time out against Abzan reanimator. Not happy about the 10 minutes my Abzan opponent took to sideboard. I had him done in game 3 with the Hushwing Gryff and Prognostic Sphinx beat down but just needed a few turns to get the hits in.
I think this deck has the ability to transform into a more midrange style deck that waits a little bit and starts to deploy big threats to end the game.
I just acquired a full playset of Goblin Rabblemaster so I can make most of the deck except the painlands and fetchlands. I have found that's it better to hope for good mana than to spend all your money on an expensive mana base and not have any powerful spells to play with them so I buy the mana base last.
I just keep finding the Abzan matchup to be frustrating to say the least.
Its frustrating for us because we have to have answers while they just have their cards. They can jam a Sorin or Rhino with reckless abandon and not ever really get punished for it while we are trying to slowly and carefully dictate how we make our plays. Thats why i like Jeskai, it requires more thought, but yeah, it can be frustrating when you opponent doesnt have to think and can just cast whatever, and then win if we dont have the right answer.
But, their curve is very high and with only 25 lands they arent guaranteed to hit lands drops all the way to 6 every game every time. We have good answers to basically everything except Sorin and Rhino, although they can be countered for value and with Hushwing, Rhino is raceable.
Guys, can you give me some tips on how to deal with U/W Heroic and Jeskai Ascendancy Combo? I am thinking of sideboarding copies of Eidolon of the Great Revel for these matches but I am not entirely sure on it's effectiveness.
Thanks!
I have found vs u/w heroic burn turn 2/3 on your turn when their tapped out then let jeskai charm deal withwhat they pump out.
In the last two weeks I have won both my fnnms. Their is no abzhan yet tho.
the card that has out performed my expectations a millionfold is ashcloud phoeni.
single handedly wins vs control, I save my burn to shoot phoenix if they use a utter end or such. Agro and mirror need two burns. I have yet to side it out.
I am at crossroads with seeker of the way. He pretty much always chews a removal and rarely gets value. While this protects goblin and mantis more I wonder if their is another 2 drop threat?
Abzan actually has me worried and feel main deck griffs maybe the way forward with its popularity.
Yea seeker can feel like that, but how many times does that turn 2 seeker just get there over and over again.
I dont think I would ever budge off of our 12 creature core personally as I find it is ether A. Really good or B. Really synergistic.
So far the hordeling outburst has been really good.
I've mainboard hushwing gryff but the only matchup where they "shine" is azban. Yes they are against gb constelation but that matchup is already good unless they mainboard 4 arbor collosous and we can still win past them.
I've played ashcloud pheonix and personally its the only card so far that I would possibly go back to.
The reason why I like hordeling outburst and think is good;
Requires a certain removal spell or it will get more value
Is another threat and triggers seeker
Synergies with Rabblemaster
Only thing I've recently been thinking of changing is going to 23 lands since I cut sarkhan/SBD
i find that they always seem to leave an untapped land for their protection spells. because jeskai charm is 3 cmc and requires 3 colors, it's hard to pull off. i am contemplating on using Tyrant's Machine or Briber's Purse. at least those will slow them down in theory. but has anyone tried?
btw, how many phoenixes do you have in your deck? i have two.
Against the Heroic decks we have a hard time because their "counters" to our removal are so much cheaper than our actual removal. Last FMN I was playing against a kid on RW Heroic. Here's a play-by-play summary of one of his combat damage steps:
Him: Before damage, I'll Defiant Strike my Favored Hoplite.
Me: Magma Spray in response.
Him: Gods Willing, naming red.
Me: Lightning Strike in response.
Him: Ajani's Presence.
Me: ...
Him: Take 6?
Me: ...Yep.
Their deck is full of plays like that. End Hostilities is bad against the UW version because they can (and will) counter it.
ok, so how about Eidolon of the Great Revel and Deflecting Palm?
get those Eidolons out early so that opponents will damage themselves while casting and buffing their creatures, or be hesitant in doing so. then when he's got a huge creature out that attacks, use Deflecting Palm (this card doesn't say "target" so they can't really use protection from color spells, all they can do is counter spell it). hopefully he'll be in Stoke the Flames or Jeskai Charm damage range after all that happens.
I've been following the thread for a while...and no iw got the permission to reply...
i need suggestions on my list..and how to beat Heroic...in my lgs there's plenty of them...UW or RW...
I've been following the thread for a while...and no iw got the permission to reply...
i need suggestions on my list..and how to beat Heroic...in my lgs there's plenty of them...UW or RW...
It looks like you're well-equipped, with Magma Spray, Anger of the Gods, and Suspension Field in the sideboard.
What version of Heroic is giving you trouble? WR? WU? Jeskai?
Good Heroic players, when playing against decks with a lot of burn or removal, will sometimes wait until T2 or later to drop a mob. That's so they can have mana open for Gods Willing or whatever else they have in hand.
The best line of play to beat them is to run them out of cards. Once they're topdecking, their mobs aren't going to get any bigger unless they keep drawing only auras or protection spells, which is unlikely.
Circle of Flame is another option, and might hold them off for a turn or two. It gets better in multiples. But after the first few turns, it's nearly useless.
Void Snare is decent them as well, as any auras attached to the target will go to the bin, and any counters will evaporate.
I would find room for a fourth Magma Jet.
As a poster above noted, Eidolon of the Great Revel will punish their cute little combat tricks. It also sucks for us, however, as the only cards in our lists that won't damage us are Stoke the Flames and our planeswalkers.
Singing Bell Strike is almost removal, and Ajani's Presence is nerfed by it.
Cards with high CMC's, such as Aetherspouts and End Hostilities, are just too slow for this matchup. By the time you cast it, you're probably at < 5 life anyway. Granted, you still may be able to pull out of that, but if they have any burn you are toast.
Sarkhan is okay here. Same story...you may be able to burn away a mob but you are probably on turn 5, or worse: you missed a land drop and it's turn 6 or 7.
Brimaz is pretty good here as none of their mobs tend to have trample.
Something that is probably overlooked is Glare of Heresy. Especially on the off chance that they are using something like Return to the Ranks in their sideboard. It hits all their guys except for Monastery Swiftspear, and can also blow away Banishing Light or Suspension Field.
Is there any cockatrice version of ML that anyone knows of?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Is there any cockatrice version of ML that anyone knows of?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I feel like the mana is only a problem for the people trying to jam Brimaz, Sarkhan, and Dig Through Time, forcinf double colors of each in your deck, while also trying to cast 3 color spells like Mantis Rider and Charm. Gets pretty greedy, i think Outburst is in the same boat.
Magic-League.com
Hordeling and Sarkhan should never hurt your manabase or stretch it by anymeans. Only lands that dont tap for lands that are being run is basic plains/island and the fetches. Thats it. Every other land taps for red.
The problem I see with Brimaz isnt soo much his double white is that he demands double white early. I've never had a problem casting end hostilities before but I could see a few times me not being able to cast brimaz.
And Dig through time generally isnt an issue, but I have had my blue restricted a few times.
All in all I think our manabase isnt fine and that isnt the area that needs work nor discussion about IMO. If you run 8 tapped lands, play some number of mana confluence. If not you can get away with up to 10 come into play tapped lands.
Anyone found anything to help the Temur Matchup? So far i've found Suspension field to help a ton in that matchup besides stormbreath dragon, which if you arent playing sarkhan can be a problem.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Play late game, board in counterspells, End Hostilities, Suspension Fields, and make sure not to cut Stokes. Anger is very effective as well, as it kills Ashclouds dead. Don't blink first, and the game is quite winnable.
You could also pray for a reprint of Stifle...
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Sure, if you dont have the right burn spell for the job it can be tough, but otherwise it is a pretty normal matchup. The only thing annoying is if they are on the play and can get a turn 3 Knuck while you only have 2 mana up. But lets be honest, this Standard is ridiculously more geared to going first than any other Standard ive played in, so you sort of expect to get blown out game 1 not playing first.
And apparently I've changed my name: Ugh
Game 1 - Savage Knuckleblade x 3 and then Keranos, God of Storms. Every single time he flipped for Keranos it was a non land card so he was doing me 3 on top of drawing gas every turn. Needless to say this game was totally unwinnable
Game 2 - Mantis Rider by itself went all the way while I just used other cards to deal with his threats. Stoke the Flames his Stormbreath Dragon. Finished him off with a Lightning Strike. Couldn't have been a more emphatic victory. Just crushed him.
Game 3 - Got into a bit of a grind until I attacked with Seeker of the Way into open mana and got punished by a flashed in Surrak Dragonclaw. It was all downhill for me from there. I wasted a Banishing Light on a Rattleclaw Mystic getting duped into thinking it was Sagu Mauler which I knew he had in his deck. Then the Sagu Mauler came out and I got beat to death by 2 6/6s in quick order.
If I wasn't having to be so reactive in game 3 things would have been different. Never getting a chance to get on the front foot just puts you on a path to losing.
The rest of the night I went 2-0, 2-0 against bad decks (RW midrange with not enough lands and Abzan outlast) and 1-1 time out against Abzan reanimator. Not happy about the 10 minutes my Abzan opponent took to sideboard. I had him done in game 3 with the Hushwing Gryff and Prognostic Sphinx beat down but just needed a few turns to get the hits in.
I think this deck has the ability to transform into a more midrange style deck that waits a little bit and starts to deploy big threats to end the game.
I just acquired a full playset of Goblin Rabblemaster so I can make most of the deck except the painlands and fetchlands. I have found that's it better to hope for good mana than to spend all your money on an expensive mana base and not have any powerful spells to play with them so I buy the mana base last.
Its frustrating for us because we have to have answers while they just have their cards. They can jam a Sorin or Rhino with reckless abandon and not ever really get punished for it while we are trying to slowly and carefully dictate how we make our plays. Thats why i like Jeskai, it requires more thought, but yeah, it can be frustrating when you opponent doesnt have to think and can just cast whatever, and then win if we dont have the right answer.
But, their curve is very high and with only 25 lands they arent guaranteed to hit lands drops all the way to 6 every game every time. We have good answers to basically everything except Sorin and Rhino, although they can be countered for value and with Hushwing, Rhino is raceable.
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
2 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Epiphany
3 Flooded Strand
3 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Mystic Monastery
2 Erase
2 Magma Spray
4 Disdainful Stroke
2 Glare of Heresy
2 End Hostilities
2 Arc Lightning
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Thanks!
In the last two weeks I have won both my fnnms. Their is no abzhan yet tho.
the card that has out performed my expectations a millionfold is ashcloud phoeni.
single handedly wins vs control, I save my burn to shoot phoenix if they use a utter end or such. Agro and mirror need two burns. I have yet to side it out.
I am at crossroads with seeker of the way. He pretty much always chews a removal and rarely gets value. While this protects goblin and mantis more I wonder if their is another 2 drop threat?
Abzan actually has me worried and feel main deck griffs maybe the way forward with its popularity.
I'm not a God, but the creator of God's
I dont think I would ever budge off of our 12 creature core personally as I find it is ether A. Really good or B. Really synergistic.
So far the hordeling outburst has been really good.
I've mainboard hushwing gryff but the only matchup where they "shine" is azban. Yes they are against gb constelation but that matchup is already good unless they mainboard 4 arbor collosous and we can still win past them.
I've played ashcloud pheonix and personally its the only card so far that I would possibly go back to.
The reason why I like hordeling outburst and think is good;
Only thing I've recently been thinking of changing is going to 23 lands since I cut sarkhan/SBD
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
i find that they always seem to leave an untapped land for their protection spells. because jeskai charm is 3 cmc and requires 3 colors, it's hard to pull off. i am contemplating on using Tyrant's Machine or Briber's Purse. at least those will slow them down in theory. but has anyone tried?
btw, how many phoenixes do you have in your deck? i have two.
Him: Before damage, I'll Defiant Strike my Favored Hoplite.
Me: Magma Spray in response.
Him: Gods Willing, naming red.
Me: Lightning Strike in response.
Him: Ajani's Presence.
Me: ...
Him: Take 6?
Me: ...Yep.
Their deck is full of plays like that. End Hostilities is bad against the UW version because they can (and will) counter it.
Aetherspouts? Too slow.
IDK.
get those Eidolons out early so that opponents will damage themselves while casting and buffing their creatures, or be hesitant in doing so. then when he's got a huge creature out that attacks, use Deflecting Palm (this card doesn't say "target" so they can't really use protection from color spells, all they can do is counter spell it). hopefully he'll be in Stoke the Flames or Jeskai Charm damage range after all that happens.
is that a reasonable strategy? thanks!
i need suggestions on my list..and how to beat Heroic...in my lgs there's plenty of them...UW or RW...
this is what my 75 looks like..
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Battlefield Forge
1 Mana Confluence
Creatures
3 Seeker of the Way
4 Mantis Rider
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Spells
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Jeskai Charm
1 Gods Willing
2 Dig Through Time
2 Banishing Light
3 Suspension Field
3 Disdainful Stroke
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Magma Spray
2 Hushwing Gryff
tks mates!!
UR Twin - RIP
What version of Heroic is giving you trouble? WR? WU? Jeskai?
Good Heroic players, when playing against decks with a lot of burn or removal, will sometimes wait until T2 or later to drop a mob. That's so they can have mana open for Gods Willing or whatever else they have in hand.
The best line of play to beat them is to run them out of cards. Once they're topdecking, their mobs aren't going to get any bigger unless they keep drawing only auras or protection spells, which is unlikely.
Circle of Flame is another option, and might hold them off for a turn or two. It gets better in multiples. But after the first few turns, it's nearly useless.
Void Snare is decent them as well, as any auras attached to the target will go to the bin, and any counters will evaporate.
I would find room for a fourth Magma Jet.
As a poster above noted, Eidolon of the Great Revel will punish their cute little combat tricks. It also sucks for us, however, as the only cards in our lists that won't damage us are Stoke the Flames and our planeswalkers.
Singing Bell Strike is almost removal, and Ajani's Presence is nerfed by it.
Cards with high CMC's, such as Aetherspouts and End Hostilities, are just too slow for this matchup. By the time you cast it, you're probably at < 5 life anyway. Granted, you still may be able to pull out of that, but if they have any burn you are toast.
Sarkhan is okay here. Same story...you may be able to burn away a mob but you are probably on turn 5, or worse: you missed a land drop and it's turn 6 or 7.
Brimaz is pretty good here as none of their mobs tend to have trample.
Something that is probably overlooked is Glare of Heresy. Especially on the off chance that they are using something like Return to the Ranks in their sideboard. It hits all their guys except for Monastery Swiftspear, and can also blow away Banishing Light or Suspension Field.
I hope this helps!