You do have priority. So you play Jace, it resolves, you +2. The planeswalker moves to 5 loyalty and "each player draws a card" is put on the stack. Before that resolves, your opponent has the opportunity to respond to that ability.
In Sarkhan's case, the opponent casts Hero's Downfall with the "Until the end of turn..." ability on the stack. Sarkhan dies because he has not yet become a 4/4 indestructible dragon.
@GrAsh: What Jar75 said hits the nail on the head. The +2 to the planeswalker loyalty is a 'cost' to play the ability, so it happens immediately, like paying mana can't be interrupted. Adding loyalty appears to be a benefit so that might be counter-intuitive, but that's the way it works. The planeswalker effect however still uses the stack as normal, and doesn't resolve until both you and your opponent pass priority. If you -3'ed Sarkhan to deal four damage to a Courser of Kruphix, you opponent could respond by making it indestructible with Valorous Stance, or adding two +1 counter with Abzan Charm to save the Courser, for example.
This is important to learn. Bullet point overview:
Basically, each phase, the active player (player whose turn it is) has priority first.
The opponent has the option to respond before moving to the next phase or step.
The opponent (or active player if they hold priority) also has the option to respond after a spell is put on the stack by the active player.
If the opponent responds with a spell or ability, then priority (unless held) goes to the active player to respond.
Each time a spell is responded to with an ability or another spell, it is added to the stack on top of previous spells.
The stack is each of the spells currently being cast in order of when they were cast with the first spell on bottom and the last spell on top.
The stack resolves in order top to bottom or last to first.
In order for a spell to resolve, first the active player then the opponent must pass (not respond with anything further).
Each time a spell resolves, the priority defaults to the active player, passing or responding until the stack is clear.
Once the stack is clear, priority returns to active player and the game resumes from the same phase or step that it was in at the start of the stack.
Activating a Planeswalker ability is sort of like casting a spell. The casting cost is the loyalty change. Once it is added to the stack (with loyalty changed immediately) the opponent has the opportunity to respond before the ability resolves. In the case of Sarkhan, his ability is sitting in limbo waiting to resolve until the opponent decides to pass. They have a window while it hasn't resolved to kill him after receiving priority from the activation.
Tip: If you cast a planeswalker and then activate an ability on a different card, or cast a spell, or change phases without activating him yet (e.g. go to combat). Your opponent will get priority and be able to kill it before you are able to activate him. So best to cast then activate in most situations.
One difficult situation is if the planeswalker entering the battlefield (resolving) triggers something (not sure what), then you will have priority to respond to the trigger first, but planeswalker activations are like Sorceries, so your opponent could also kill them before you have a chance to activate in that circumstance too.
What's everyone's feeling towards jeskai at the moment? I'm not sure which direction to go currently. I've had success with the deck in it's various incarnations since the start of the current block, but over the last two weeks I've seen my shop's meta shift to abzan megamorph and esper dragons. I'm not sure which incarnation is currently the best given the two dominant archetypes in my meta.
I still like it. Anger slaughters Megamorph decks. I feel like we are about 50% against the meta right now. I am currently on a more reactive version of the deck.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
Jeskai seems like it's more and more a tier 2 deck. It was always a bit variant. Our money spells like Mantis Rider don't win in a heads up fight, so we have to walk the tightrope of a tempo game much of the time. If we lose the die roll, or they have the perfect curve, or we draw awkward spells/lands, then we lose. Our good hands can roll opponents, and we are good at punishing awkward draws and mana screw, which is why I think you still see the occasional top8. Moving forward, I'd really want to have Anger of the Gods in the sideboard with Disdainful Stroke main. The two sets of Top8 decklists from this weekend show that Esper is still around, and Megamorph is a definitely a thing. Monored is likely to diminish, so we might be the better aggressive deck in the air again with Mantis Rider, Thunderbreak, Ojutai. Not sure if that's enough.
I moved away from it, but the deck really appeals so it's always tempting to come back. RDW feels like it's gotten a lot worse in the last week, so maybe it's time for a comeback? I dunno, seems like we either play Gx or UBx at this point.
Personally I'm not feeling it. I just don't think the deck is super capable of competing with the tier 1 decks. My midrange deck feels incredible against green devotion, but when I faced Esper control it just felt like an inevitable loss. The aggro decks may have more success against control because of a more proactive game plan, but I think I'm going to shift to tokens and see how that goes. If it doesn't work out then, well, Bant Midrange here I come.
The problem is that the RDW or Mega-Morph package wants us to be maindecking Anger of the Gods, which is very potent against both and the Esper Dragon match up wants us to be playing a high density of 2 and 3 drop creatures. Obviously these two don't really work together, so Aggro/Midrange/Dragons decks are kind of in a bad place. It is possible there is a hybrid approach that runs the low drop critical mass and hedges with a couple Angers main like McLaren did at PT:Khans, but it just doesn't look good right now.
So I have been playing Jeskai tokens for awhile and I have done quite well with it. Last week I went 4-0, my sideboard went with the concept of swapping out tokens and turning it into a Jeskai tempo deck. Has this idea been discussed? All black decks are siding in Virulent Plague and other token hate cards so why not take them out for tempo cards and throw your opponent for a loop. I tried it out last week and it worked like a champ for me
I thought about it when I was writing my own tokens list, and I think it's a pretty solid concept. I don't really know exactly to go about it though and having not played the tokens version yet I couldn't say how good it would be versus just a regular sideboard, but I can definitely see the potential.
Some of the recent builds have 2-3 Ojutai in the side board. I could see adding in Mantis Rider as well. I don't think we'd want to use up the entire sideboard for the transistion, but it's probably a good strategy.
Speaking of Tokens, I think it might be the best version at the moment.
This is what I ran this past week at my FNM and went 4-0, Mantis Rider is the bomb coming from the sideboard, you can use him to help pay for stoke the flames which is great, gets around a lot hate cards. Seeker of the way is nice for the life gain if a spell is casted but dropping a seeker then a mantis rider on game 2 where your opponent is expecting tokens, unless they have a quick answer the game is over. I know Mastery of the unseen is unusual but my meta has alot of control decks, it just adds another threat they have to worry about, even if I hardly ever get to flip cards. I got to play mastery of the unseen twice in my first match vs U/B control and it totally caught my opponent off guard and it worked like a champ.
Nice work. Though, Seeker seems like an odd one to side in. It plays into their sideboard strategy of siding in stuff like Seismic Rupture and Drown in Sorrow.
that is true, I was actually thinking about taking them out. I was thinking about adding ojutai exemplars, they are more of toolbox and gives me options. Thunderbreak regent could be another card option too
Last Weekend was not a good weekend for this deck. Was looking for the most recent top finish and between the GP Top 8 of Sao Paulo, the Top 16 of GP Toronto, and the top 32 of SCG Open Portland the only list I can find is a 29th place Tokens deck at the SCG Open.
We'll have to see what this weekend holds, but it doesn't look like this deck has what it takes against this kind of field.
Last Weekend was not a good weekend for this deck. Was looking for the most recent top finish and between the GP Top 8 of Sao Paulo, the Top 16 of GP Toronto, and the top 32 of SCG Open Portland the only list I can find is a 29th place Tokens deck at the SCG Open.
We'll have to see what this weekend holds, but it doesn't look like this deck has what it takes against this kind of field.
I agree. The big 3 (Atarka Red, Abzan Aggro and Esper Control), presents very bad matchups against any Jeskai variant in game 1 and sideboarded matches gets more difficult. I personally think that Jeskai is not the way to go in the current meta. The answers we have are very narrow against these 3 decks. Valorous Stance is good against Siege Rhino and Tasigur, the Golden Fang but is practically a dead card against Atarka Red and Esper Control. Foul Tongue Invocation puts the Esper Control player out of reach of our burn suite while gaining board advantage. Atarka Red can out tempo us all day long. Our previous best card before DTK, Outpost Siege, is just so bad right now because of Silumgar's Scorn and Dromoka's Command. Let's just wait on the next set and hope that WOTC will balance out things and give U and W better tools and not sideboard worthy cards only.
I know that the 4 maindeck Encase in Ice are odd, but the only top tier deck that isn't running red or green creatures right now is Esper Dragons and most removal would be dead against them anyways (Dromoka's Command is a problem but any burn-based removal would be bad against Dromoka's Command too). The maindeck Ashcloud Phoenixes and sideboarded Mastery of the Unseens should help with the Control matchup and I think the deck has enough removal to beat Abzan Aggro and Abzan Control. The Circles of Flame in the sideboard are basically game over for Atarka Red, especially with me already having a lot of removal.
It looks like you're doing most of your damage via creatures. Are 4x Roast necessary over 1-2 more burn spells? Though you'll know the room you're walking into better than I.
I understand not wanting to play Seeker of the Way or more Soulfire Grand Master due to raptors and co. but maybe consider Stratus Dancer to flesh out your curve beyond mono 3-drops? Also gives you game vs. UBx dragons or whatever.
4 main deck Roasts is not very good. Your curve also looks really odd. 10 3CMC creatures, 1 2CMC and 4 4CMC seems odd. Thunderbreak Regent is a very good card and if you want to go the aggro route then consider Seeker of the Way.
It looks like you're doing most of your damage via creatures. Are 4x Roast necessary over 1-2 more burn spells? Though you'll know the room you're walking into better than I.
Wild Slash is just really bad in the current metagame (it does nothing against Abzan and very little against UB Control while only being decent against Bant) and Stoke the Flames raises my curve a bit too much for my liking and isn't great against the faster decks like Atarka Red. Besides, having 12 spells that kill large creatures is very strong against the Abzan decks and having 12 2 mana removal spells that I can use against early plays (Encase, Roast, Strike) means that I have a lot of answers to early stuff.
I understand not wanting to play Seeker of the Way or more Soulfire Grand Master due to raptors and co. but maybe consider Stratus Dancer to flesh out your curve beyond mono 3-drops? Also gives you game vs. UBx dragons or whatever.
I was thinking about that or possibly Hidden Dragonslayer. What would you suggest cutting to fit some of those in?
4 main deck Roasts is not very good. Your curve also looks really odd. 10 3CMC creatures, 1 2CMC and 4 4CMC seems odd. Thunderbreak Regent is a very good card and if you want to go the aggro route then consider Seeker of the Way.
I honestly don't see what is so weird with the curve. I am usually playing a tapland on turn 1, a removal spell on turn 2, and a threat on turn 3. Soulfire Grand Master was just added because I felt like I could use some more help against Aggro. I have considered Thunderbreak Regent, but Ashcloud Phoenix seems better without any other dragon synergies in the deck and I want to keep my curve lower. What would you cut to fit in Thunderbreak Regent?
As for Seeker of the Way, I was never really a fan of it (I always had better turn 3 plays and it was pretty bad from turn 4 and onward so it was only good when played on turn 2), but now with less decks like Jeskai and R/W around and more green decks, it is even worse.
Why would I play 26 lands in a deck that has its most expensive spell (not counting Dig Through Time because that varies) at 4 mana and has most of its spells at 2 and 3 mana?
I don't think Outpost Siege is as good in a shell with a heavy top end. The card has lost a lot since DTK as it is.
This deck doesn't have that high of a top end. Its top end consists of 4 Ashcloud Phoenixes, 2 Outpost Sieges (which I assume you aren't counting in your analysis of Outpost Siege), and 3 Dig Through Times. That is not high at all.
Better off playing some Anticipates to smooth out the early game (and help with that land count).
I was running Anticipate, but I found that I often had hands where I just played a tapland on turn 1, my only possible turn 2 play was Anticipate, and I didn't actually affect the board until turn 3. That was just too much durdling to be doing while other decks are casting manadorks and aggressive red creatures. Also, as I said earlier in this post, I don't see the problem with 24 lands in this deck.
No reason not to be running a couple Ojutai on the top end. The card is nuts.
So you tell me that I have too high of a top end and then you suggest that I add 5-drops? That makes no sense.
Roast and Encase should be in the sideboard. Way to many dead cards vs control. Need more Burn.
What burn would you suggest? Wild Slash is terrible in a ton of matchups right now. Stoke the Flames would make my curve awkward and it doesn't help interact before turn 4. Also, am I supposed to just not run creature removal that can't do something else because it is bad against Control? That seems like it would hurt a lot of my other matchups a lot more than the dead cards hurt my Control matchup.
Brimaz should probably just be more Grand Masters to make your curve a bit less awkward.
Once again, how is this curve awkward? (though adding more Grand Masters instead of Brimaz is probably a good idea. I'll consider that)
This is important to learn. Bullet point overview:
Activating a Planeswalker ability is sort of like casting a spell. The casting cost is the loyalty change. Once it is added to the stack (with loyalty changed immediately) the opponent has the opportunity to respond before the ability resolves. In the case of Sarkhan, his ability is sitting in limbo waiting to resolve until the opponent decides to pass. They have a window while it hasn't resolved to kill him after receiving priority from the activation.
Tip: If you cast a planeswalker and then activate an ability on a different card, or cast a spell, or change phases without activating him yet (e.g. go to combat). Your opponent will get priority and be able to kill it before you are able to activate him. So best to cast then activate in most situations.
One difficult situation is if the planeswalker entering the battlefield (resolving) triggers something (not sure what), then you will have priority to respond to the trigger first, but planeswalker activations are like Sorceries, so your opponent could also kill them before you have a chance to activate in that circumstance too.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
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Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
I moved away from it, but the deck really appeals so it's always tempting to come back. RDW feels like it's gotten a lot worse in the last week, so maybe it's time for a comeback? I dunno, seems like we either play Gx or UBx at this point.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Speaking of Tokens, I think it might be the best version at the moment.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
This is what I'm thinking. It's what I'm running Friday.
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Monastery Mentor
Enchantment
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
Instant
2 Anticipate
2 Lightning Strike
4 Raise the Alarm
1 Secure the Wastes
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Valorous Stance
4 Wild Slash
Planeswalker
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Dragon Fodder
3 Hordeling Outburst
4 Treasure Cruise
Land
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Mystic Monastery
3 Plains
2 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Triumph
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 End Hostilities
4 Mantis Rider
2 Mastery of the Unseen
2 Negate
3 Seeker of the Way
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
We'll have to see what this weekend holds, but it doesn't look like this deck has what it takes against this kind of field.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I agree. The big 3 (Atarka Red, Abzan Aggro and Esper Control), presents very bad matchups against any Jeskai variant in game 1 and sideboarded matches gets more difficult. I personally think that Jeskai is not the way to go in the current meta. The answers we have are very narrow against these 3 decks. Valorous Stance is good against Siege Rhino and Tasigur, the Golden Fang but is practically a dead card against Atarka Red and Esper Control. Foul Tongue Invocation puts the Esper Control player out of reach of our burn suite while gaining board advantage. Atarka Red can out tempo us all day long. Our previous best card before DTK, Outpost Siege, is just so bad right now because of Silumgar's Scorn and Dromoka's Command. Let's just wait on the next set and hope that WOTC will balance out things and give U and W better tools and not sideboard worthy cards only.
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Mantis Rider
4 Monastery Mentor
1 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Encase in Ice
2 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
4 Lightning Strike
4 Valorous Stance
4 Roast
4 Battlefield Forge
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Mystic Monastery
2 Plains
4 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Triumph
3 Circle of Flame
3 Mastery of the Unseen
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Ajani Steadfast
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Glare of Heresy
I know that the 4 maindeck Encase in Ice are odd, but the only top tier deck that isn't running red or green creatures right now is Esper Dragons and most removal would be dead against them anyways (Dromoka's Command is a problem but any burn-based removal would be bad against Dromoka's Command too). The maindeck Ashcloud Phoenixes and sideboarded Mastery of the Unseens should help with the Control matchup and I think the deck has enough removal to beat Abzan Aggro and Abzan Control. The Circles of Flame in the sideboard are basically game over for Atarka Red, especially with me already having a lot of removal.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I understand not wanting to play Seeker of the Way or more Soulfire Grand Master due to raptors and co. but maybe consider Stratus Dancer to flesh out your curve beyond mono 3-drops? Also gives you game vs. UBx dragons or whatever.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Wild Slash is just really bad in the current metagame (it does nothing against Abzan and very little against UB Control while only being decent against Bant) and Stoke the Flames raises my curve a bit too much for my liking and isn't great against the faster decks like Atarka Red. Besides, having 12 spells that kill large creatures is very strong against the Abzan decks and having 12 2 mana removal spells that I can use against early plays (Encase, Roast, Strike) means that I have a lot of answers to early stuff.
I was thinking about that or possibly Hidden Dragonslayer. What would you suggest cutting to fit some of those in?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I honestly don't see what is so weird with the curve. I am usually playing a tapland on turn 1, a removal spell on turn 2, and a threat on turn 3. Soulfire Grand Master was just added because I felt like I could use some more help against Aggro. I have considered Thunderbreak Regent, but Ashcloud Phoenix seems better without any other dragon synergies in the deck and I want to keep my curve lower. What would you cut to fit in Thunderbreak Regent?
As for Seeker of the Way, I was never really a fan of it (I always had better turn 3 plays and it was pretty bad from turn 4 and onward so it was only good when played on turn 2), but now with less decks like Jeskai and R/W around and more green decks, it is even worse.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Why would I play 26 lands in a deck that has its most expensive spell (not counting Dig Through Time because that varies) at 4 mana and has most of its spells at 2 and 3 mana?
This deck doesn't have that high of a top end. Its top end consists of 4 Ashcloud Phoenixes, 2 Outpost Sieges (which I assume you aren't counting in your analysis of Outpost Siege), and 3 Dig Through Times. That is not high at all.
I was running Anticipate, but I found that I often had hands where I just played a tapland on turn 1, my only possible turn 2 play was Anticipate, and I didn't actually affect the board until turn 3. That was just too much durdling to be doing while other decks are casting manadorks and aggressive red creatures. Also, as I said earlier in this post, I don't see the problem with 24 lands in this deck.
So you tell me that I have too high of a top end and then you suggest that I add 5-drops? That makes no sense.
What burn would you suggest? Wild Slash is terrible in a ton of matchups right now. Stoke the Flames would make my curve awkward and it doesn't help interact before turn 4. Also, am I supposed to just not run creature removal that can't do something else because it is bad against Control? That seems like it would hurt a lot of my other matchups a lot more than the dead cards hurt my Control matchup.
Once again, how is this curve awkward? (though adding more Grand Masters instead of Brimaz is probably a good idea. I'll consider that)
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.