My one issue with wall of essence is it does to stoke the flames, which I guess is okay since you gain 4. But if that's one of your only blockers vs a rabble master it's gonna be painful.
Why is no-one running Polukranos, World Eater in their list? Its essentially an extra removal spell or two against aggressive decks.
I definitely agree that Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is great in this deck. I think you definitely need to run 2, maybe even 3. He's just such a good source of card advantage, which is something that this deck lacks without him. To be honest, I'm only really running Abzan Charm because it can function as a Sign in Blood when you need it to. I'd much rather just run Hero's Downfall, but the deck just lacks the ability to draw cards from elsewhere.
I'm thinking that maybe we don't need the full 4 Sylvan Caryatid, so maybe one of those could be dropped to squeeze in that extra threat or that extra removal spell. I'm yet to decide how much that would affect the consistency of the deck though.
I think caryatid is to good to dropping. A turn 3 siege rhino is a ton better than a turn 4 one. Also it's a pretty relevant blocker than can't be targeted by frenzied goblin so it can always block a 2 power something.
I want to try mentor of heroes really badly as a two if, but I feel like if I put him in the deck I may need to go up to 25 lands vs 24 lands. My problem with him is he doesn't immediately impact the board like Elspeth does. He is good if you have threats, but if you put 3 counters on a siege rhino and it gets kill spelled you're in a bad spot becUae ajani will most likely die. He seems like a win more card, at least in the main board. At least if you drop Elspeth you can drop 3 1/1s and they have to killspell her vs your creatures.
I think you're probably right about Caryatid. There are just so many threats and so much removal to squeeze in, I just don't know where to put it all! Can't I just run 70 cards?!
Ajani also encourages you to play more creatures, which restricts the amount of removal you can play. I think this deck just wants to be playing a small number of incredibly efficient threats, rather than a high density of decent-good threats. However, 2 Ajani and 1 Sorin in a creature heavy deck just seems so good!
I just don't see where the card advantage comes from if you're not running Ajani. I guess you could just run 4 Abzan Charm, but then you'd be relying very heavily on those, and you'd be taxing your life total a fair amount in the process. He is a bit of a win more card, but he can secure the game for you by ensuring that the threats keep coming in games that may otherwise get away from you.
This past fnm I literally thought this exactly about Ajani. I put one in my board for Any midrange mirror, as the long haul is where he gets value. Against anything else he wont create advantage unless you already have it.
Would like thoughts on my previous post, specifically Genesis Hydra. Its a straight 2-1 with the plus 1 being uncounterable and often between many choices.
I'm starting to get the feel that Whip of Erebos is just too slow to main, and the board is too full of better options. I love the card, but it's almost in the same pitfall I see with Ajani.
I also have been running two Reaper OTW and two Polokranos and been pretty happy. Four Caryatids is a must too for consistency imo.
Josh my issue is that genesis hydra and polukranos have the same issue imo. They both require a decent amount of mana to dump into. An opening had with a genesis hydra is horrible if the rest of your hand isn't perfect. Polukranos is decent because he's a 5/5 for 4 and you can get extra value by making him go monstrous. But again, I don't want to run more than six 4-drops and 4 siege rhinos and 2 reapers is better imo. I may try polukranos instead of two reapers, and may remove Anafenza and put 3 polukranos in - but in almost positive reaper is better.
Why is no-one running Polukranos, World Eater in their list? Its essentially an extra removal spell or two against aggressive decks.
I definitely agree that Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is great in this deck. I think you definitely need to run 2, maybe even 3. He's just such a good source of card advantage, which is something that this deck lacks without him. To be honest, I'm only really running Abzan Charm because it can function as a Sign in Blood when you need it to. I'd much rather just run Hero's Downfall, but the deck just lacks the ability to draw cards from elsewhere.
I'm thinking that maybe we don't need the full 4 Sylvan Caryatid, so maybe one of those could be dropped to squeeze in that extra threat or that extra removal spell. I'm yet to decide how much that would affect the consistency of the deck though.
I think caryatid is to good to dropping. A turn 3 siege rhino is a ton better than a turn 4 one. Also it's a pretty relevant blocker than can't be targeted by frenzied goblin so it can always block a 2 power something.
I want to try mentor of heroes really badly as a two if, but I feel like if I put him in the deck I may need to go up to 25 lands vs 24 lands. My problem with him is he doesn't immediately impact the board like Elspeth does. He is good if you have threats, but if you put 3 counters on a siege rhino and it gets kill spelled you're in a bad spot becUae ajani will most likely die. He seems like a win more card, at least in the main board. At least if you drop Elspeth you can drop 3 1/1s and they have to killspell her vs your creatures.
I think you're probably right about Caryatid. There are just so many threats and so much removal to squeeze in, I just don't know where to put it all! Can't I just run 70 cards?!
Ajani also encourages you to play more creatures, which restricts the amount of removal you can play. I think this deck just wants to be playing a small number of incredibly efficient threats, rather than a high density of decent-good threats. However, 2 Ajani and 1 Sorin in a creature heavy deck just seems so good!
I just don't see where the card advantage comes from if you're not running Ajani. I guess you could just run 4 Abzan Charm, but then you'd be relying very heavily on those, and you'd be taxing your life total a fair amount in the process. He is a bit of a win more card, but he can secure the game for you by ensuring that the threats keep coming in games that may otherwise get away from you.
This past fnm I literally thought this exactly about Ajani. I put one in my board for Any midrange mirror, as the long haul is where he gets value. Against anything else he wont create advantage unless you already have it.
Would like thoughts on my previous post, specifically Genesis Hydra. Its a straight 2-1 with the plus 1 being uncounterable and often between many choices.
I'm starting to get the feel that Whip of Erebos is just too slow to main, and the board is too full of better options. I love the card, but it's almost in the same pitfall I see with Ajani.
I also have been running two Reaper OTW and two Polokranos and been pretty happy. Four Caryatids is a must too for consistency imo.
I've been considering just sticking 2 Ajani in the sideboard and bringing them in against other midrange decks. I think that could be a viable strategy. How did it work out for you? Also, if I dropped Ajani, I'd probably just drop Sorin as well, as I think they each become worse once you remove the other.
With regards to Genesis Hydra, I like the card a lot, but not in a deck like this. I think you have to be casting it for X=4/5 on a consistent basis for it to be worthwhile, and I don't think that's possible for this deck. Casting it for X=3 or less is just going to be miserable more often than not.
I'm currently running a 3/1 Polukranos/Reaper split. I think this split is purely metagame dependent. If you're facing a lot of aggro, you obviously want Polukranos. If you're facing a lot of control decks, you obviously want Reaper. I think 4 is the right number though.
Small sample but I was 3-0-1, but I'm getting serious mileage out of Obzedat still. Only brought Ajani in once, and it was vs Naya mr, and he was great there as expected. I think hes very deck and meta dependant, and play style for that matter. Hydra Ive been running singleton, more like mini late game Tooth and Nail. Its so harshly bad vs aggro but amazing everywhere else. X=6 late is optimal and game breaking, and there's very little worry about whiffing bc if you hit nothing you were probly going to lose anyway. I might change it up, but I like it so far as a one of and maybe 1-2 in board.
With this deck with no sideboard in running 18B / 4BB spells, 18G / 3GG spells, 10W / 2WW spells. I'm currently running 13 B sources plus Urborg, 15G sources, and 13 W sources. A turn two Fleecemane is really good so I don't wanna cut to many white sources but I feel like cutting a white source for a black source would help a ton, especially once I side in drown in sorrow and bile blight. Any suggestions? Also that was extremely painful to type out on a phone haha.
With this deck with no sideboard in running 18B / 4BB spells, 18G / 3GG spells, 10W / 2WW spells. I'm currently running 13 B sources plus Urborg, 15G sources, and 13 W sources. A turn two Fleecemane is really good so I don't wanna cut to many white sources but I feel like cutting a white source for a black source would help a ton, especially once I side in drown in sorrow and bile blight. Any suggestions? Also that was extremely painful to type out on a phone haha.
Polukranos > Reaper in pure power level, Morph is a new mechanic that Polukranos will chomp on. I would HIGHLY recommend switching over. You have 6 hand disruption spells which I think is far too many. 4 Thoughtseize is really all you need and even I'm putting 1 in the board to add more creatures / walkers (aka threats) to the main. You can't be so threat light without extreme cycling potential throughout your deck and 3 charms is not going to do it. I like the 3 Fleecemane / 2 Deathdealer Setup, that's what I'm running with.
As for removal I would highly suggest X1-2 Bile Blight as there will be a lot of token strategy going forward after rotation, being able to clear planeswalker tokens and swing through to kill the walker or using downfall are our 2 options so maximizing our creatures value on the field is paramount.
Removal package shell I would recommend: 1-2 Bile Blight, 4 Downfall, 3 Charm
That looks very similar to my list, except I won't run more than two Polukranos and I'm pretty sure I always want two Sorin. He is ridiculous to deal with and shines in the midgame.
I think 3 Thoughtseize is also the correct number.
I'm also not sold on Sandsteppe Citadel. The scry on the Temples is a real life saver.
I haven't really worked on the SB yet, but those are the cards on my radar. A few cards that I'm toying with:
Nissa, Worldwaker: For a while I was running 3 of these, and she just didn't quite do enough. This list is definitely slower/more controlly than the jund planeswalker lists of old standard, so it is harder to leverage her abilities. You usually want to play her on 6 mana, and i think that Elspeth, Sun's Champion is probably just better, because both her + and - can help stabilize against unfavorable board states.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor: With caryatid on 2, this deck really wants power 4s to be ramping into. Unfortunately, I don't really think this is where this deck wants to be. Sorin is only really good when you can really leverage his +, and this deck doesn't, except to win more. When you are behind, the token is ok, but it really sucks going to 2 just to make a chump blocker. This also may be a symptom of what I'm playing for my legendary 3 drop. Sorin is better with Brimaz, while I currently am playing Anafenza. I haven't decided which I want yet, but Anafenza being able to get through opposing coursers is nice.
Reaper of the Wilds: My quest to find a 4 to ramp into led to me trying out this card, and so far I've been decently impressed. It is a decent attacker on its own, fairly resilient, and notably trades with both whatever fatty Temur is playing, and with Prognostic Sphinx while attacking, which can be a problem for this deck.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes: I've been extremely impressed with this card so far. I think the format is slowing down enough to where this pw really shines. If you haven't tried him yet in your midrange builds, I highly recommend it.
Garruk, Apex Predator: I love this card, and have been playing it as a fun of in my jund walkers lists, and will likely be trying it here. 7 mana is a lot, but you get what you paid for.
Drown in Sorrow: This card is going to be extremely important to have in your sideboard, likely atleast as a 3 of. It looks like all the good removal in this format is going to be either extremely situational (white-based) or 3+mana. Drown is going to be needed to fight all the Goblin Rabblemaster or Bloodstained Bravedecks.
Anafenza, the Foremost: The triggered ability is decent, the gy hate has been relevant more than expected (vs delve and Bloodstained Brave) and being able to attack through Courser is also nice. Its either this or Brimaz, King of Oreskos in this slot, and I'm not sure which is better.
Fleecemane Lion: This may seem like an odd choice in a midrange deck, but I've really liked it so far. A 3/3 for 2 is bigger than what most decks are doing t1-3, and it is a card that can also be good late. The only real sac effect in the format is Crackling Doom, so if you can ever go monstrous, this card can do serious work. I like Fleecemane much better than Rakasha Death Dealer because a ton of the removal in the format is exile based right now. Abzan Charm, Banishing Light, Suspension Field, and Utter End can all punish you for leaving regen up, and I find myself tapping out a lot with this deck anyways. I'd much rather have the 1 shot indestructible, Hexproof guy.
Wingmate Roc This may seem like an odd choice for a board, but this card is good in two key matchups. The first is against other durdly pw decks, like the mirror, bug, or RWB. The ground is super clogged up, between courser, caryatid, elspeth, rabblemaster, etc, and so evasion is very important. This also threatens to 1 shot elspeth while still dodging her minus. You don't lose both creatures to bileblight, and the lifegain is a nice bonus. The second matchup where the card is key, however, is against Prognostic Sphinx decks. This card is going to be a big player in the next format, and this deck really struggles to deal with it. Both halves of Wingmate Roc can block it, and even having one keeps you on parity with the Sphinx. Coming into the next format, you are going to have to have an answer for Prognostic Sphinx, and this I think is one of our few outs short of Despising/Thoughtseizing it out of hand.
Anyways, this is definitely the archetype/colors that I'm going to be playing for a while, so any comments/advice would be appreciated.
BTW, has anyone seen any blue decks? Do we even need Mistcutter in the 75? I feel like this deck can beat whatever permission based control throws at it without the hydra.
I was looking at the value of the cards in this deck and it sits between $500-$600. Not for the faint of wallet, apparently, lol. I added a warning to that effect in the first post. Fortunately I've got all the cards already or have them preordered, personally. I haven't been this excited for a standard deck since I played the same colors back in TS/Lorwyn standard. Bitterblossom, Shriekmaw, Primal Command, Tarmogoyf, Murmuring Bosk, original Ajani Goldmane and Garruk Wildspeaker... good times.
I went and preordered a pair of Wingmate Rocs this afternoon because I want desperately to play it.
I was looking at the value of the cards in this deck and it sits between $500-$600. Not for the faint of wallet, apparently, lol. I added a warning to that effect in the first post.
I went and preordered a pair of Wingmate Rocs this afternoon because I want to desperately to play it.
I'm still curious as to the power level of the Wingmate Rocs as they do occupy the same slot as Planeswalkers / Indulgent Tormentor. I'm not a fan of conditional ETB effects. This is the sole reason I'm playing Tormentor over the Roc. We also have plenty of lifegain already in the deck so what these birds provide essentially is 2 3/4 bodies which is an above curve 6/8 flying for 5. Not bad, but can we do better?
Most of the time, I think that we can. A resolved Siege Rhino a turn before the possibility of the Roc is such a house. On the other hand, Broodmate Dragon was good and as they say, good decks play good cards. There's not a terrible amount of risk in casually swinging with a Fleecemane Lion, Courser of Kruphix, or Rhino to get it done, but in the end, the 5-6 drop slot is, as you say, probably better dedicated to Planeswalkers and/or Indulgent Tormentor. If Prognostic Sphinx becomes big, this may change.
Most of the time, I think that we can. A resolved Siege Rhino a turn before the possibility of the Roc is such a house. On the other hand, Broodmate Dragon was good and as they say, good decks play good cards. There's not a terrible amount of risk in casually swinging with a Fleecemane Lion, Courser of Kruphix, or Rhino to get it done, but in the end, the 5-6 drop slot is, as you say, probably better dedicated to Planeswalkers and/or Indulgent Tormentor. If Prognostic Sphinx becomes big, this may change.
I would't overlook Indulgent Tormentor. Its ability is very powerful, especially when combined with Thoughtseize, Rhino and our removal package. It can put opponents in a very awkward situation.
I think this is generally the core of the deck, there isn't to much room to budge on these cards. Sorin is good as a one of after more testing. He can decently defend himself with his tick down in a worst case scenario vs one monster and you can tick him up and just leave your stuff back if you have to and make it so they don't want to swing into a bunch of life linkers. You need to fill the remaining slots with the cards below. these are the rough number of the cards below I think you should run of each, if you decide to play them. I think you need at least 3 creatures and 8 more land. You have 4 other spots for spells, walkers, or more creatures.
I also want to add I don't think brimaz is good here because we already have GG with courser on turn 3, plus BB on turn 2-3 with downfall, drown in sorrow, and bile blight.
Edited to add - I basically never want to play Rakshasa Deathdealer on turn 2 unless I'm playing mardu aggro pre-board and I need to bite the bullet and trade (or threaten to trade) with someone across the board. I agree that he's one of the weakest points in the deck, but he's also been a house mid-to-late game.
A bear that has 2 non conditional abilities to mana sink into is pretty strong. The +2+2 is actually scary as hell late game when you attack with 3-4 guys cause he MUST blocked if you have mana open. I like have a 2/3 split on Cat/Lion so I'll keep it that way until I have a good pool of testing post release. I'm not convinced Murderous cut is needed at all when we have hero's downfall. I'm toying with adding in 1 Utter end to my deck instead of 1 Polukranos as a catch-all.
Whip of Erebos is a boss in a deck with huge fatties and ETB effects like Siege Rhino. There are a ton of matchups where you will be hoping to draw this. If you're playing against fast aggro, this will bounce you back from 4 life right back to your 20 in no time and keep your opponent from attacking you. If you're playing against control or heavy removal and you stick Whip, you'll have a threat every single turn. It makes playing against mill or discard downright hilarious. Red and black basically have no answer once this resolves. I've been playing a few different versions of Abzan midrange lately and have had a few games that were just outright won with Whip--either the lifelink or the recursion. And it's even better if you're playing a constellation theme because you get to re-trigger constellation with each enchantment creature.
I agree that a 3/2 split is correct, but I think I've just had bad matchup a for rakshasa ATM. He's not that good as a vanilla 2/2 against aggro because I always feel like I don't wanna trade him for something since I can pump him, but I typically wanna slam a bigger creature the next turn so if I hold mana open I lose tempo.
I agree that the split is correct, I'm just having bad luck ATM.
I'm also not sure how a one of murderous cut is. It'd be horrible in an opening hand, but great midgame because you can delve your fetches and any removal you've used. The one issue I see with it is that you can't always get a ton of stuff in your grave since your creatures have so much resilience. In theory it seems like a good one of, but I think a lot of the time it may just be dead, and could make keep able hands, ones you may have to mulligan.
I think this is generally the core of the deck, there isn't to much room to budge on these cards. Sorin is good as a one of after more testing. He can decently defend himself with his tick down in a worst case scenario vs one monster and you can tick him up and just leave your stuff back if you have to and make it so they don't want to swing into a bunch of life linkers. You need to fill the remaining slots with the cards below. these are the rough number of the cards below I think you should run of each, if you decide to play them. I think you need at least 3 creatures and 8 more land. You have 4 other spots for spells, walkers, or more creatures.
I also want to add I don't think brimaz is good here because we already have GG with courser on turn 3, plus BB on turn 2-3 with downfall, drown in sorrow, and bile blight.
I want to quote this because I edited the lists a bit and added a bit more of an explanation. Any feedback?
I don't like I Indulgent Torment because you're suppose to play super valuable creatures that are hard to deal with. Indulgent Tormentor can't block anything and his effect really isn't that good, it's more of a win more. If you're behind they'll just pay 3 to prevent you from doing anything. Also I think you have to many walkers. I think 4 is the max for this deck imo, and Elspeth is mandatory
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
This past fnm I literally thought this exactly about Ajani. I put one in my board for Any midrange mirror, as the long haul is where he gets value. Against anything else he wont create advantage unless you already have it.
Would like thoughts on my previous post, specifically Genesis Hydra. Its a straight 2-1 with the plus 1 being uncounterable and often between many choices.
I'm starting to get the feel that Whip of Erebos is just too slow to main, and the board is too full of better options. I love the card, but it's almost in the same pitfall I see with Ajani.
I also have been running two Reaper OTW and two Polokranos and been pretty happy. Four Caryatids is a must too for consistency imo.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
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Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Small sample but I was 3-0-1, but I'm getting serious mileage out of Obzedat still. Only brought Ajani in once, and it was vs Naya mr, and he was great there as expected. I think hes very deck and meta dependant, and play style for that matter. Hydra Ive been running singleton, more like mini late game Tooth and Nail. Its so harshly bad vs aggro but amazing everywhere else. X=6 late is optimal and game breaking, and there's very little worry about whiffing bc if you hit nothing you were probly going to lose anyway. I might change it up, but I like it so far as a one of and maybe 1-2 in board.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
3 Fleecemane Lion
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Siege Rhino
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Elspeth, the Sun's Champion
Spells (12-13)
2 Despise
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut [Debating]
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Bile Blight
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Silence the Believers
2 Utter End
With this deck with no sideboard in running 18B / 4BB spells, 18G / 3GG spells, 10W / 2WW spells. I'm currently running 13 B sources plus Urborg, 15G sources, and 13 W sources. A turn two Fleecemane is really good so I don't wanna cut to many white sources but I feel like cutting a white source for a black source would help a ton, especially once I side in drown in sorrow and bile blight. Any suggestions? Also that was extremely painful to type out on a phone haha.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Polukranos > Reaper in pure power level, Morph is a new mechanic that Polukranos will chomp on. I would HIGHLY recommend switching over. You have 6 hand disruption spells which I think is far too many. 4 Thoughtseize is really all you need and even I'm putting 1 in the board to add more creatures / walkers (aka threats) to the main. You can't be so threat light without extreme cycling potential throughout your deck and 3 charms is not going to do it. I like the 3 Fleecemane / 2 Deathdealer Setup, that's what I'm running with.
As for removal I would highly suggest X1-2 Bile Blight as there will be a lot of token strategy going forward after rotation, being able to clear planeswalker tokens and swing through to kill the walker or using downfall are our 2 options so maximizing our creatures value on the field is paramount.
Removal package shell I would recommend: 1-2 Bile Blight, 4 Downfall, 3 Charm
Here's my updated list:
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Courser of Kruphix
2x Rakshasa Deathdealer
3x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Fleecemane Lion
4x Siege Rhino
2x Indulgent Tormentor
Instants / Sorcery's
4x Hero's Downfall
3x Abzan Charm
3x Thoughtseize
1x Bile Blight
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands
2x Mana Confluence
4x Temple of Malady
4x Forest
1x Plains
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
3x Temple of Silence
3x Temple of Plenty
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Llanowar Wastes
3x Mistcutter Hydra
1x Banishing Light
1x Liliana Vess
1x Bile Blight
2x Dark Betrayal
1x Thoughtseize
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Drown in Sorrow
4x Nyx-Fleece Ram
I think 3 Thoughtseize is also the correct number.
I'm also not sold on Sandsteppe Citadel. The scry on the Temples is a real life saver.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fleecemane Lion
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Reaper of the Wilds
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Ajani, Mentor to Heroes
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Spells (13)
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Utter End
2 Bile Blight
2 Abzan Charm
3 Thoughtseize
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Thoughtseize
2 Despise
4 Drown in Sorrow
3 Deicide
2 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Wingmate Roc
I haven't really worked on the SB yet, but those are the cards on my radar. A few cards that I'm toying with:
Nissa, Worldwaker: For a while I was running 3 of these, and she just didn't quite do enough. This list is definitely slower/more controlly than the jund planeswalker lists of old standard, so it is harder to leverage her abilities. You usually want to play her on 6 mana, and i think that Elspeth, Sun's Champion is probably just better, because both her + and - can help stabilize against unfavorable board states.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor: With caryatid on 2, this deck really wants power 4s to be ramping into. Unfortunately, I don't really think this is where this deck wants to be. Sorin is only really good when you can really leverage his +, and this deck doesn't, except to win more. When you are behind, the token is ok, but it really sucks going to 2 just to make a chump blocker. This also may be a symptom of what I'm playing for my legendary 3 drop. Sorin is better with Brimaz, while I currently am playing Anafenza. I haven't decided which I want yet, but Anafenza being able to get through opposing coursers is nice.
Reaper of the Wilds: My quest to find a 4 to ramp into led to me trying out this card, and so far I've been decently impressed. It is a decent attacker on its own, fairly resilient, and notably trades with both whatever fatty Temur is playing, and with Prognostic Sphinx while attacking, which can be a problem for this deck.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes: I've been extremely impressed with this card so far. I think the format is slowing down enough to where this pw really shines. If you haven't tried him yet in your midrange builds, I highly recommend it.
Garruk, Apex Predator: I love this card, and have been playing it as a fun of in my jund walkers lists, and will likely be trying it here. 7 mana is a lot, but you get what you paid for.
Drown in Sorrow: This card is going to be extremely important to have in your sideboard, likely atleast as a 3 of. It looks like all the good removal in this format is going to be either extremely situational (white-based) or 3+mana. Drown is going to be needed to fight all the Goblin Rabblemaster or Bloodstained Bravedecks.
Anafenza, the Foremost: The triggered ability is decent, the gy hate has been relevant more than expected (vs delve and Bloodstained Brave) and being able to attack through Courser is also nice. Its either this or Brimaz, King of Oreskos in this slot, and I'm not sure which is better.
Fleecemane Lion: This may seem like an odd choice in a midrange deck, but I've really liked it so far. A 3/3 for 2 is bigger than what most decks are doing t1-3, and it is a card that can also be good late. The only real sac effect in the format is Crackling Doom, so if you can ever go monstrous, this card can do serious work. I like Fleecemane much better than Rakasha Death Dealer because a ton of the removal in the format is exile based right now. Abzan Charm, Banishing Light, Suspension Field, and Utter End can all punish you for leaving regen up, and I find myself tapping out a lot with this deck anyways. I'd much rather have the 1 shot indestructible, Hexproof guy.
Wingmate Roc This may seem like an odd choice for a board, but this card is good in two key matchups. The first is against other durdly pw decks, like the mirror, bug, or RWB. The ground is super clogged up, between courser, caryatid, elspeth, rabblemaster, etc, and so evasion is very important. This also threatens to 1 shot elspeth while still dodging her minus. You don't lose both creatures to bileblight, and the lifegain is a nice bonus. The second matchup where the card is key, however, is against Prognostic Sphinx decks. This card is going to be a big player in the next format, and this deck really struggles to deal with it. Both halves of Wingmate Roc can block it, and even having one keeps you on parity with the Sphinx. Coming into the next format, you are going to have to have an answer for Prognostic Sphinx, and this I think is one of our few outs short of Despising/Thoughtseizing it out of hand.
Anyways, this is definitely the archetype/colors that I'm going to be playing for a while, so any comments/advice would be appreciated.
I'd run more creatures if you want to take advantage of Mentor of Heroes fully.
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Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
I had forgotten the pain lands. I changed my mana base up anyways, I edited it above to reflect my changes.
I went and preordered a pair of Wingmate Rocs this afternoon because I want desperately to play it.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
I'm still curious as to the power level of the Wingmate Rocs as they do occupy the same slot as Planeswalkers / Indulgent Tormentor. I'm not a fan of conditional ETB effects. This is the sole reason I'm playing Tormentor over the Roc. We also have plenty of lifegain already in the deck so what these birds provide essentially is 2 3/4 bodies which is an above curve 6/8 flying for 5. Not bad, but can we do better?
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
I would't overlook Indulgent Tormentor. Its ability is very powerful, especially when combined with Thoughtseize, Rhino and our removal package. It can put opponents in a very awkward situation.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
3 Fleecemane Lion
4 Siege Rhino
Spells (10)
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Abzan Charm
3 Thoughtseize
1 Bile Blight
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram / Wall of Essence
1 Thoughtseize
1 Bile Blight
3 Drown in Sorrow
I think this is generally the core of the deck, there isn't to much room to budge on these cards. Sorin is good as a one of after more testing. He can decently defend himself with his tick down in a worst case scenario vs one monster and you can tick him up and just leave your stuff back if you have to and make it so they don't want to swing into a bunch of life linkers. You need to fill the remaining slots with the cards below. these are the rough number of the cards below I think you should run of each, if you decide to play them. I think you need at least 3 creatures and 8 more land. You have 4 other spots for spells, walkers, or more creatures.
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells
2 Despise
1 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Utter End
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Caves of Koilos
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Malady
3 Mana Confluence
2 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Silence the Believers
2 Bile Blight
2 Utter End
1 Hero's Downfall
I also want to add I don't think brimaz is good here because we already have GG with courser on turn 3, plus BB on turn 2-3 with downfall, drown in sorrow, and bile blight.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Edited to add - I basically never want to play Rakshasa Deathdealer on turn 2 unless I'm playing mardu aggro pre-board and I need to bite the bullet and trade (or threaten to trade) with someone across the board. I agree that he's one of the weakest points in the deck, but he's also been a house mid-to-late game.
The one-of Sorin, Solemn Visitor is such a house. It steals games.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Murderous Cut didn't work for me when I tested it, but others' mileage may vary. I'd love to hear an argument for its inclusion.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Whip of Erebos is a boss in a deck with huge fatties and ETB effects like Siege Rhino. There are a ton of matchups where you will be hoping to draw this. If you're playing against fast aggro, this will bounce you back from 4 life right back to your 20 in no time and keep your opponent from attacking you. If you're playing against control or heavy removal and you stick Whip, you'll have a threat every single turn. It makes playing against mill or discard downright hilarious. Red and black basically have no answer once this resolves. I've been playing a few different versions of Abzan midrange lately and have had a few games that were just outright won with Whip--either the lifelink or the recursion. And it's even better if you're playing a constellation theme because you get to re-trigger constellation with each enchantment creature.
Play it!
I agree that the split is correct, I'm just having bad luck ATM.
I'm also not sure how a one of murderous cut is. It'd be horrible in an opening hand, but great midgame because you can delve your fetches and any removal you've used. The one issue I see with it is that you can't always get a ton of stuff in your grave since your creatures have so much resilience. In theory it seems like a good one of, but I think a lot of the time it may just be dead, and could make keep able hands, ones you may have to mulligan.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
I want to quote this because I edited the lists a bit and added a bit more of an explanation. Any feedback?
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU