Ya I would imagine a 4 Nyx-Fleece Ram in the sideboard would be good to start the season off in the sideboard. Never know what kind of aggro will pop up and you know people will try that strategy
since you guys are the Abzan experts, any advice on building a manabase with around 20 lands? Or is that being greedy? I'm kind of terrible at building manabases.
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I feel like we are missing anything good in our 5 drop slot right now. Also we are missing something that Junk colors usually have, card advantage. We have Abzan charm and thats a good start, but I want more.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is awesome for this purpose, he buffs our creatures, draws us more threats, and in a deck like junk which can tend to durdle sometimes 100 life can buy us precious time to find answers - for me he is an auto include
Indulgent Tormentor I really like this guy, he provides a fast evasive clock, and card advantage. Flyers are something we typically lack. But he dies to lightning strike. Worth testing.
Lilianna Vess provides card advantage in the form of discard, also tutors
Wingmate Roc two for one and life gain, how very thragtusk of you. And hes flying.
None of these are particularly hard to curve into. If you're playing Abzan,these are cards you need to consider.
since you guys are the Abzan experts, any advice on building a manabase with around 20 lands? Or is that being greedy? I'm kind of terrible at building manabases.
Yes this is very greedy. We don't have the mana we did in Ravinca anymore. Also you're playing Courser of Kruphinx (I assume) and he gets better the more lands you have. 25 lands is where you should start your mana base. If youre playing an agressive deck you can lower that to 23 or 24 if you want.
since you guys are the Abzan experts, any advice on building a manabase with around 20 lands? Or is that being greedy? I'm kind of terrible at building manabases.
Yes this is very greedy. We don't have the mana we did in Ravinca anymore. Also you're playing Courser of Kruphinx (I assume) and he gets better the more lands you have. 25 lands is where you should start your mana base. If youre playing an agressive deck you can lower that to 23 or 24 if you want.
Thanks for the reply!
Courser of Kruphix is one of those cards I don't understand the hype over, but that's a topic for another day.
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The only thing I'm not happy with in this deck is the removal. I want some two casting cost options for removal, I might consider replacing 1 Hero's Downfall and 1 Abzan Charm for 2 Bile Blight. Is there anything other two drop removal I'm missing? And if I do go that heavy into black I'd probably switch Fleecemane for the Rakshasa.
Courser of Kruphix is one of those cards I don't understand the hype over, but that's a topic for another day.
When I first looked at him I didn't get it either, he looked good but not crazy. Then I played with him. Professional players call Courser the best card in standard for a reason. Play him with 25 lands in your deck and you will see why.
The jist of it is, if hes not killed, he will draw you 4-5(or more) cards in a game, and give you at least that much life. All the while youre playing a land pretty much every turn, so youre mana is much more reliable and you can cast creatures and removal in the same turn or huge bombs you wouldnt normally be able to play.
are you comfortable with 2 deathdealers on the board at the same time?
Well, yes and no. The reason I'm running him is that he's a 2-drop for the deck that's easier to cast than the Lion.
If I did draw two, I would probably hold one back and not play it, but it' tottaly ok in multiples, I think. And it's not that dead of a draw as other cards can be (Thoughtseize come to mind).
radouf, i agree on the land situation. right now it seems that we would effectively be ramping to nowhere. a couple copies of a huge beast are required. the search begins! suggestions?
edited the first post with a sorting of potential cards.
I agree we need a solid fatty to round out our team. But if I'm playing something 6 mana or more I want some innevitability, it should win me the game if left unchecked. I've been looking at:
Soul of New Phyrexia a 6/6 trampler that is hard to kill. Clear the way with Elspeth and say goodgame.
Soul of Zendikar Not my favorite choice, but a solid mana sink. Sorin, and Ajani friendly. Blocks welll.
Scuttling Doom EngineBig body, easy to cast(colorwise) cant be chumped, and 6 damage to the face is a good way to close out a game.
Not the greatest line up so far, but there is some potential there. Or maybe we should just jam another Elspeth?
This deck is seeming like its going to be very popular, has anyone given any thought to how were going to beat the mirror?
radouf, i agree on the land situation. right now it seems that we would effectively be ramping to nowhere. a couple copies of a huge beast are required. the search begins! suggestions?
edited the first post with a sorting of potential cards.
I agree we need a solid fatty to round out our team. But if I'm playing something 6 mana or more I want some innevitability, it should win me the game if left unchecked. I've been looking at:
Soul of New Phyrexia a 6/6 trampler that is hard to kill. Clear the way with Elspeth and say goodgame.
Soul of Zendikar Not my favorite choice, but a solid mana sink. Sorin, and Ajani friendly. Blocks welll.
Scuttling Doom EngineBig body, easy to cast(colorwise) cant be chumped, and 6 damage to the face is a good way to close out a game.
Not the greatest line up so far, but there is some potential there. Or maybe we should just jam another Elspeth?
This deck is seeming like its going to be very popular, has anyone given any thought to how were going to beat the mirror?
radouf, i agree on the land situation. right now it seems that we would effectively be ramping to nowhere. a couple copies of a huge beast are required. the search begins! suggestions?
edited the first post with a sorting of potential cards.
I agree we need a solid fatty to round out our team. But if I'm playing something 6 mana or more I want some innevitability, it should win me the game if left unchecked. I've been looking at:
Soul of New Phyrexia a 6/6 trampler that is hard to kill. Clear the way with Elspeth and say goodgame.
Soul of Zendikar Not my favorite choice, but a solid mana sink. Sorin, and Ajani friendly. Blocks welll.
Scuttling Doom EngineBig body, easy to cast(colorwise) cant be chumped, and 6 damage to the face is a good way to close out a game.
Not the greatest line up so far, but there is some potential there. Or maybe we should just jam another Elspeth?
This deck is seeming like its going to be very popular, has anyone given any thought to how were going to beat the mirror?
Could also consider Soul of Theros as a mana sink/finisher. Giving a ton of dudes a pump First Strike and Life Link makes winning is almost inevitable. Especially with Fleecemane being indestructible. Two of those out with Soul of Theros means you're gaining 12 life per turn. Also a card that I have been eyeballing is Meandering Towershell. This card is an EXCELLENT finisher against Temur and demands instant speed removal. It can win against Sultai too but Sultai Charm takes care of it and they also have access to Hero's Downfall.
As far as the mirror is concerned I think it really becomes a battle of Planeswalkers. Can I get Elspeth to Ult first. Can I get Sorin, Ajani or Nissa to win for me. I think Athreos also shines in the mirror because he gets that damage in even if your opponent kills your dudes. It's hard to tell what is going to win the mirror until the list really settles into it's best variant. At that point you can search for answers to key threats.
The mirror (a matchup I haven't played yet) feels like it'l be about removal and planeswalkers. Despise will probably be a clutch card in those games.
Meandering Towershell is a fascinating idea and one that I'll need to test. Good idea.
Absolutely, in the Mirror, all our hand disruption comes in. We want to get rid of as many of those threats as possible BEFORE they hit the board so we can stay ahead on spot removal. I would also consider Duneblast to be a sideboard option for the mirror. Saying everything dies but my Siege Rhino seems like it could win you the game.
This list is the most similar list to what I'm considering running. After some initial testing, the deck seems to be performing well. I've tested against a token strategy with purphoros, Rabble Aggro, and a Temur DL.
If you haven't tried Wingmate Roc, do it. So easy to get the raid condition satisfied and it's crazy efficient for the cost. The main threat against this deck is going to be exceptionally fast aggro and Stormbreath Dragon. As always, comments welcome.
Alright, this is obviously the deck I am choosing. I have been lurking all of these Abzan Midrange threads and dropping little bits here and there but, here is what I am going to start with.
Fleecemane Lion over Rakshasa Deathdealer. This is purely speculative at this point and relies entirely on whether or not the meta support the decision. Basically I see it as, Fleecemane is a one time get the ability and it sticks, which is great unless your opponent can play chump blockers for them. I like him better because I don't have to leave mana up for him every turn but the flipside is obviously, it doesn't deal with fatties like the Deathdealer can.
Brimaz. I love playing Brimaz, simple as that. But he also is a good card and I think this shell provides him the place to shine like everyone knew he COULD during THS but he never got his spot light in the already fine tuned decks dominating standard. This leads to my next point...
Sorin. Sorin's +1 is amazing with Brimaz. It turns him into a 6 power lifelinking blocker. And all your 1/1 vigilant cats are 2/1 lifelinkers! Not to mention all of Elspeth's army.
Banishing Light over Bile Blight. I don't see the need for a double black removal spell to kill off tokens when I have Brimaz, Courser, Caryatid AND Elspeth. The tokens are not a big enough deal to keep a removal spell on deck specifically for them. That's sideboard material folks. And you'll notice I didn't include Bile Blight at all... I feel like Drown in Sorrow is plenty. Yeah, its a little more pricey but it's there for tokens. End Hostilities needs a place to wipe out all the fatties if need be. So there ya go.
Now the big one. I can already hear the outcries of SHAAAAAME for having something like Plea for Guidance in my deck. It serves ONE purpose and that purpose is to tutor Athreos. Athreos is amazing against control and having him in the side board as a two of just isnt consistent enough for me to call it good. I board him and Plea in and then I can tutor him and a banishing light for when control banishing lights my banishing light to get their Elspeth back. Then I Athreos, banishing light your banishing light to get my banishing light back and banishing light your elspeth again..... right? sure..
Anyway, I think this is the list I'm going to go with for the first few weeks at least. And I already have most of these cards so it shouldn't cost me an arm and a leg to get going.
I really like this list. I don't think it quite fits, but the Whip of Erebos could be fun with Siege Rhino. I wish there was a way to recur him just to have that ETB effect over and over again, kind of like obzedat. I wish Cloudshift was still in standard.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
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GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Ya I would imagine a 4 Nyx-Fleece Ram in the sideboard would be good to start the season off in the sideboard. Never know what kind of aggro will pop up and you know people will try that strategy
Cash? Credit? Gold? or Jace?
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GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
anyone tried the mono-green devotion matchup yet?
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
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Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
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Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is awesome for this purpose, he buffs our creatures, draws us more threats, and in a deck like junk which can tend to durdle sometimes 100 life can buy us precious time to find answers - for me he is an auto include
Indulgent Tormentor I really like this guy, he provides a fast evasive clock, and card advantage. Flyers are something we typically lack. But he dies to lightning strike. Worth testing.
Lilianna Vess provides card advantage in the form of discard, also tutors
Wingmate Roc two for one and life gain, how very thragtusk of you. And hes flying.
None of these are particularly hard to curve into. If you're playing Abzan,these are cards you need to consider.
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
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Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
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Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Yes this is very greedy. We don't have the mana we did in Ravinca anymore. Also you're playing Courser of Kruphinx (I assume) and he gets better the more lands you have. 25 lands is where you should start your mana base. If youre playing an agressive deck you can lower that to 23 or 24 if you want.
Courser of Kruphix is one of those cards I don't understand the hype over, but that's a topic for another day.
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Fleecemane Lion
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Siege Rhino
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Indulgent Tormentor
2 Wingmate Roc
Spells 11
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Abzan Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Banishing Light
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Land 25
4 Windswept Heath
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Llanowar Wastes
1 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bile Blight
2 Deicide
1 Silence the Believers
3 Despise
2 Nyx-fleece Ram
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
The only thing I'm not happy with in this deck is the removal. I want some two casting cost options for removal, I might consider replacing 1 Hero's Downfall and 1 Abzan Charm for 2 Bile Blight. Is there anything other two drop removal I'm missing? And if I do go that heavy into black I'd probably switch Fleecemane for the Rakshasa.
Updated with manabase and sideboard
When I first looked at him I didn't get it either, he looked good but not crazy. Then I played with him. Professional players call Courser the best card in standard for a reason. Play him with 25 lands in your deck and you will see why.
The jist of it is, if hes not killed, he will draw you 4-5(or more) cards in a game, and give you at least that much life. All the while youre playing a land pretty much every turn, so youre mana is much more reliable and you can cast creatures and removal in the same turn or huge bombs you wouldnt normally be able to play.
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
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Well, yes and no. The reason I'm running him is that he's a 2-drop for the deck that's easier to cast than the Lion.
If I did draw two, I would probably hold one back and not play it, but it' tottaly ok in multiples, I think. And it's not that dead of a draw as other cards can be (Thoughtseize come to mind).
I agree we need a solid fatty to round out our team. But if I'm playing something 6 mana or more I want some innevitability, it should win me the game if left unchecked. I've been looking at:
Soul of New Phyrexia a 6/6 trampler that is hard to kill. Clear the way with Elspeth and say goodgame.
Soul of Zendikar Not my favorite choice, but a solid mana sink. Sorin, and Ajani friendly. Blocks welll.
Scuttling Doom EngineBig body, easy to cast(colorwise) cant be chumped, and 6 damage to the face is a good way to close out a game.
Not the greatest line up so far, but there is some potential there. Or maybe we should just jam another Elspeth?
This deck is seeming like its going to be very popular, has anyone given any thought to how were going to beat the mirror?
Garruk does that, too.
In the mirror I could see End Hostilities, Extinguish All Hope or Duneblast.
4 Windswept Heath
3 Swamp
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fleecemane Lion
2 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Wingmate Roc
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Thoughtseize
2 Utter End
1 Abzan Ascendancy
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Murderous Cut
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Banishing Light
2 Bile Blight
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Deicide
2 Utter End
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Duneblast
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Could also consider Soul of Theros as a mana sink/finisher. Giving a ton of dudes a pump First Strike and Life Link makes winning is almost inevitable. Especially with Fleecemane being indestructible. Two of those out with Soul of Theros means you're gaining 12 life per turn. Also a card that I have been eyeballing is Meandering Towershell. This card is an EXCELLENT finisher against Temur and demands instant speed removal. It can win against Sultai too but Sultai Charm takes care of it and they also have access to Hero's Downfall.
As far as the mirror is concerned I think it really becomes a battle of Planeswalkers. Can I get Elspeth to Ult first. Can I get Sorin, Ajani or Nissa to win for me. I think Athreos also shines in the mirror because he gets that damage in even if your opponent kills your dudes. It's hard to tell what is going to win the mirror until the list really settles into it's best variant. At that point you can search for answers to key threats.
Meandering Towershell is a fascinating idea and one that I'll need to test. Good idea.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Absolutely, in the Mirror, all our hand disruption comes in. We want to get rid of as many of those threats as possible BEFORE they hit the board so we can stay ahead on spot removal. I would also consider Duneblast to be a sideboard option for the mirror. Saying everything dies but my Siege Rhino seems like it could win you the game.
This list is the most similar list to what I'm considering running. After some initial testing, the deck seems to be performing well. I've tested against a token strategy with purphoros, Rabble Aggro, and a Temur DL.
Here's the list I've put together so far:
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures:
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Siege Rhino
2 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Wingmate Roc
3 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers:
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Nyx-fleece Ram
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Deicide
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Liliana Vess
3 Unknown
If you haven't tried Wingmate Roc, do it. So easy to get the raid condition satisfied and it's crazy efficient for the cost. The main threat against this deck is going to be exceptionally fast aggro and Stormbreath Dragon. As always, comments welcome.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
yep i'll fix it, thanks!
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
I really like this list. I don't think it quite fits, but the Whip of Erebos could be fun with Siege Rhino. I wish there was a way to recur him just to have that ETB effect over and over again, kind of like obzedat. I wish Cloudshift was still in standard.