Regarding Garruk, Apex Predator, I'll admit that I've only brought him in for a limited number of mirror matches. Thing is, by the time he comes out, your opponent has probably spent some Hero's Downfalls and is likely near or in topdeck mode. Yes, Garruk could cost a lot and eat removal, but if they don't have that removal, he's a blowout, gobbling planeswalkers by the turn. Liliana into Garruk will dig you out of a late game hole in a pinch. Again, it's not appropriate for every match, but I've been happy when I've drawn my 1-of.
I can much more enthusiastically endorse Erebos, God of the Dead. Against U/W control and Sidisi Reanimator decks that don't pressure your life total, he is great for card draw considering all the life gain I run and he turns off their life gain. I couldn't ask for more from one card. Sultai Reanimator can't even get him off the board once he hits. There's a lot of life gain running around right now and Erebos gives you certainty in races. I've raced Jeskai Tempo with Fleecemane, Rhino, and kill spells for Mantis Rider, and knowing that you can extend a bit without expecting Jeskai Charm or Seeker of the Way lifegain to screw up your math is nice, though it can be tough finding the turn to stick it. I had one mega-grindy mirror match where I was able to draw practically my entire deck because I had a Whip and 2 Coursers in play for lifegain and never let myself get devotion (blanking Abzan Charm). If it weren't for Erebos, I would have lost the round but instead I had freedom to grab multiple cards per turn and finally work through all of his blockers and kill spells.
Well, Garruk and Ugin can kill each other, but Garruk gets to add a loyalty counter when he does it. I'm not sure how often Abzan wants an 8-drop recurring lightning strike and I wouldn't want Ugin's -X in my deck because the first thing he'd exile is my vampire/soldier/cat soldier/hornet/bird tokens before even getting to my opponent's stuff. Also, I run Whip and 2 Fleecemane, so if I'm wiping the board, I'd generally prefer a destroy effect like End Hostilities to Ugin's exile. I suppose it's possible to go ultimate with Ugin, but probably more likely in a deck with blue that can protect him from removal for 3 turns. In the end, I see Elspeth winning more games for Abzan than the dragon will, so I'd add another copy of her before Ugin. Another thing I prefer about Garruk is the beast token mode--sometimes you get in matches with Abzan where you and your opponent are just killing creatures and neither of you can keep a meaningful threat on the board. Being able to spit out a couple of deathtouch 3/3s can help deal with that.
My experiences with Duneblast haven't been that great, so I guess I'd say neither Ugin or Duneblast. Sometimes, they kill the guy you saved in response, then you overpaid for a wrath. Sometimes, you are facing an onslaught of tokens or Temur dudes or Stormbreath or whatever and you're looking to reset and save your hide rather than break a board stall. Sometimes you do need to be able to remove a bestowed Herald of Torment or Boon Satyr or whatever. Sometimes you miss land drops. For those reasons, I prefer End Hostilities to Duneblast in the majority of matches. You can still break late game parity with End Hostilities. I've pulled off this maneuver with 10 dork/land mana in play--make an ill-advised attack with Courser, etc on a clogged board, opponent doesn't block fearing Abzan Charm counters, tap Caryatids first to cast End Hostilities, follow up tapping other 5 mana to cast Wingmate Roc with raid trigger leaving your opponent with 2 large creatures to deal with before he can even bother casting his own and the ability to handily threaten any planeswalkers he might have had.
I've been playing McLaren's list heavily lately (lost a win-an-in at a ptq last Saturday), the only difference I have is that I play a maindeck end hostilities over a read the bones which is in the board now (so still playing just 2 hostilities and 4 read). I like the sidisi whip matchup, but I think I want to shore it up a bit.
I was thinking about cutting a downfall and replacing it with a 3rd utter end in the main, so I can have 4 utter end and an erase post-board to kill whip of erebos.
I'm also thinking that there will be a lot of the abzan agro deck floating around at the next ptq (there's a lot of it on mtgo right now), so I was thinking about replacing the 2nd duneblast in the board with a perilous vault. This will deal with a monstroused fleecemane lion, which can be a big problem. The only answers I currently have to a monstroused lion are siege rhino blocking it indefinitely, which can be easily killed, and Elspeth. The vault will kill my permanents but I already kill my creatures with my sweepers and I can play around it with my walkers. Just playing a vault and not cracking it will probably make my opponents slow down, and I might not even have to crack it.
What do you guys think about these changes?
I'm about to play in a daily with the 3 utter ends in the main and only 3 downfalls, I'm more interested in what you guys think about perilous vault.
Can't wait until I can get ugin in here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I dunno--4 Utter Ends seems like a lot. If your opponent slams Whip after Whip after Whip and still has the fodder to use them, you were in trouble anyway. My personal opinion is that the basic Abzan Midrange shell is a pretty efficient machine and adding Ugin and several Utter Ends and Perilous Vault will eventually start to take you a little too far away from that efficient shell. (I'm one to talk--my version isn't exactly cookie-cutter...) At some point you can't have an answer for every card and deck in this fairly diverse format--you still have to be able to execute your gameplan. For me, the answer to monstruous Fleecemane is to play a couple of my own to get in the way.
Just my impression--I could be way off and it's hard to say without seeing the rest of your deck. Good luck!
I got out with a bad start at 0-2, losing to Mardu and Abzan Whip in rounds 1 and 2 respectively. I've somewhat managed to rattle off 4 consecutive wins against Temur Aggro, Abzan Aggro and 2 Abzan Midrange decks in the later rounds thanks to good draws.
Some notes on my losses
Mardu - I seem to notice that Abzan Midrange has a strong game 1 against this deck but is an uphill battle for games 1 and 2. I'm not sure if its the matchup or if I'm sideboarding incorrectly. What I notice on some Mardu players is that they side out Hordeling Outburst when they are on the draw but against the guy who beat me, he kept them in all 3 games. There's a game where I did not bring in my Drown in Sorrows, a decision I sorely regret, (I'm on the play) presuming he boarded them out, and in the end I was gobbled up by 5 Goblin Tokens I think. So what's the general rule for this? Here's my SB guide as I remember.
on the play
+2 bile blight
+2 read the bones
+2 end hostilities
-4 caryatid
-1 sorin
-1 thoughtseize
on the draw
+2 end hostilities
+2 bile blight
+2 drown in sorrow
+2 read the bones
-2 anafenza
-1 wingmate roc
-4 caryatid
-1 sorin
Abzan Whip - this matchup is really hard pre and post board. I really think Thoughtseize shines in this matchup but unfortunately, I only drew them once in the whole 2 games. I think I've really got to aggro out this deck as reaching Hornet Queen mana is really hard to win against without drawing any sweepers and god forbid they have Whip in play.
I have played with abzan aggro and it is very nice. You have a weakspot against UB control, with it's discard spells and vault(which you dont have answer to assuming you play bbd's list.) Though I think, I have seen a build online, that cuts bile blight from 4 to 2, and replacing them with reclamation sages. and tweaks in the manabase (land count stays at 25, it's just a reworking of the lands)
I am thinking what to play, an edited version of mclaren's or bbd's. both are good. mclaren's though, is time hungry and doesn't really have a high win rate game 1.
I haven't taken it to any major events, but my LGS is pretty diverse. On any given night, I might face Jeskai Control, Jeskai Tempo, MGD, B/G Constellation, Sidisi Whip, R/G/x Monsters, Abzan Aggro, Mardu, U/B Control, or even mono-black aggro. I feel confident in my plan going into any matchup, and I've consistently put up very solid results.
Originally, I ran two Wingmate Roc, but recently cut them for the third Reaper and third Bile Blight. I got tired of trying to set up Raid through all the removal running around, and the WW seemed to get in the way just a little too often. That change also allowed me to turn a fetch land into a scry, and drop a Plains for a Swamp, improving the efficiency of early removal. I haven't looked back once. Reaper is a brutal topdeck in the late game, and Bile Blight is extraordinarily effective against fast decks and useful in all but a few matchups.
The sideboard is always evolving, and right now the full 75 reflects an abundance of low-toughness creatures. I also wanted to have a strong plan against Constellation decks until I have more experience against them, thus the Back to Nature.
I wouldn't say frustrated because we've only seen 50 of 185. You never know which of those remaining 135 are going to be good...maybe it will end up being a great common like Treasure Cruise or something. But at the moment I haven't seen anything for an Abzan midrange player to get really excited about other than maybe testing Archfiend of Depravity or Dromoka the Eternal as one-ofs.
Round 1 - Sultai Reanimator: Can't recall the exact details, but my opponent conceded to me in both games. I remember he conceded game 2 after I played Whip, reanimated Anafenza, and then swung with the team for 14 lifegain just from the Wingmate Roc triggers (I had 9 Elspeth tokens), and then I was gaining another 24 through combat damage via Whip. I win in 2. 1-0
Round 2 - Jeskai Tokens: I lose game 1 pretty hard, and bring in Thoughtseize, Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow for gaames 2-3. Both pretty much went the same. I drew the game out and got blow outs from Drown in Sorrow. I win in 3. 2-0
Round 3 - Abzan Midrange: I got flooded pretty hard in game 1, and then struggled to get past 4 in game 2. My opponent had a pretty smooth curve and made short work of me. Luckily I had plenty of time to get some pizza. I lose in 2. 2-1
Round 4 - Abzan Constellation: It looked like my deck, but with what I would call less aggressive creatures. He mulls to 6 in game 1, and 5 in game 2. I curve out pretty nicely in both games and he loses before he even gets going. I win in 2. 3-1
Round 5 - Abzan Midrange: Realizing I have to play to get into the top, I go into a good match with a fellow Abzan player. Our decks were pretty much the same, and I lose game 1 in one of the best games I played all day. Game 2 is much the same, and I pull off a play through very tight conditions via double Wingmate Roc. I'm able to bring him down to 1, and then finish him off with a Siege Rhino. Game 3 was just a blow out in my favor. I go Anafenza into Rhino, into Wingmate Roc. I win in 3. 4-1
Top 8 - Abzan Midrange: I probably get a little too aggressive with my plays. I get my opponent down to 3, and have a Rhino with a +1/+1 counter. He stabilized and has double Rhino + Fleecemane. I topdeck Charm and swing, hoping he goes for a double block. He triple blocks, and I trade my Rhino for one of his. I use Charm to draw, and pull 2 lands. I don't draw anything for the rest of the game, and die with an Elspeth on top of my library. Game 2 is a lot of back and forth with us each having double Fleecemane Lion, and we keep trading blows back and forth and clearing the path with removal. Eventually I am left with Elspeth and 2 Hornet Queen in hand, with only 5 lands (I missed some land drops). I needed two lands in a row to cast Elspeth, -3 to blow Rhinos, and then draw another land for Hornet Queen to trade with his Wingmate Roc. I die without seeing my 6th land, which happened to be my next draw. I lose in 2.
Just came back to Magic, and, upon discovering WBG midrange is a thing, i got very excited (it is what dragged me back!)
I came up with the following deck list, I'm trying to keep the cost around $175-200 though (I know this is about all out no budget, but thought posting for feedback in this thread would be best. And that price range doesnt fit in witht he budget section)
I don't have a SB yet as I am not too sure about what threats are prevalent at present so was hoping for some advice there.
I notice I really lack card draw and was wondering if slotting in some Read the Bones would be worth while.
Also land is a bit janky.
Once I have a deck to play with, I will upgrade cards (banishing light -> heroes Downfall, ETB tapped lands to Temples ect.) )
I think you should play 4 charms (taking out a light to do so).
Also, take out a swamp for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Might even consider 2. A lot of people don't run 2 Urborgs, but only once have I run into a situation where I had one in play and pulled my 2nd.. and it was late game anyways so it wasn't that big a deal. I fully believe that the benefits of a 2nd one outweigh the drawback of potentially pulling it early. However, I also run a Mana Confluence and 4 Windswept Heath so I have targets that benefit from it. Your current land situation I'd only run 1 until you get more of a reason to have it.
All other recommendations go beyond keeping the price low. Read the Bones is good, and if it was me with that decklist.. I'd probably take out a reaper and fleecemane to fit in 2 Read the Bones.
Oh, another singleton card that should be cheap enough to add is a single (or two) Hornet Queen.
As for the sideboard...
It more depends on what you'll be playing against where you play.
Thoughtseize: This is when I need to remove key cards early. A good example would be Jeskai Ascendancy and Ensoul Artifact. Why Thoughtseize instead of enchantment removal? ..because it also gets a lot of other pesky things (like Stormbreath Dragon. However, it's an expensive card. Despise is a suitable replacement, but not for me.
Stain the Mind: To remove key cards, but not early.
Utter End: Here's my enchant (and other things) removal. Amusingly, I had enchant specific removal to combat Jeskai Ascendancy decks, but I've yet to play a single one.
Drown in Sorrow: Weenie/Token decks are a PAIN. I noticed you have Drown in your main. That's very much a meta call. I chose Bile Blight over Drown because Bile Blight has more impact. What if I'm playing the mirror match? Drown in Sorrow is useless. At least Bile Blight can be used to catch a rhino with a courser. However, if you're constantly fighting weenie/token decks.. then Drown is much more useful game 1.
End Hostilities / Duneblast: My board sweepers. I actually think I want to take out Duneblast for something else. Either a 2nd End Hostilities or something else (like Garruk).
Mistcutter Hydra: This is my attempt (although I don't have enough experience with it yet) to combat control decks. Also, works good at stopping Savage Knuckleblade.
I don't know about 2 Sorins and 2 Whips together. I ran that for a while, and I just never felt comfortable with that 2nd Whip. Yes, it does suck pretty bad when I lose my sole Whip, but I just didn't like the 2nd. However, I also run Liliana main and so I can tutor it up if needed and so it's "sort of" like having a 2nd Whip.
I think what made me uncomfortable about it is the fact that while Whip is powerful, it removes a slot for something that advances me closer to a win. Not always is my graveyard full for Whip use, and sometimes casting it means I can't cast anything else. I just hate being put into that situation.
I'm also iffy about running a 2nd Sorin, but he's really good and I want a backup copy if I pull one early and decide to race him to ultimate (and lose the race).
Ultimately, I'd either do 2 Sorins and 1 whip or 1 Sorin and 2 whips. Just a matter of your style really.
Ajani is great. He works so well in this deck. A lot of people have had great success with "not whiffing" his search too much (me included), and he can make your caryatids and coursers useful late game. I think the hardest choice to make sometimes is whether to use his ultimate asap or prolong it a turn so you can keep him around.
Regarding Reaper into the High Sentinels.
First.. reaper is an amazing card. It's amazing early (4/5 for 4) and it's amazing late (4/5 with deathtouch and hexproof).
Originally my Abzan deck was me going, "I want to play rhinos! ..and I want to do outlast without using the outlast ability!" I was playing Abzan Ascendancy, Abzan Falconer, Anafenza and even Archetype of Courage. However, it really didn't work well and so I abandoned things. Anafenza was the last to go (and I'd love to get her back in so I'm always thinking about her.. that's not creepy at all ). One card that has stuck around are the Sentinels. I just love everything about them and they work really well in my deck. They're also leaving me room to take 1 out and put in that new legendary dragon.
..but that's me..
..and I don't think anyone else plays them
So don't take my playing them as a "word of a pro" type situation. Just have to assess the direction you want your deck to go. The Sentinels HAVE won me some games for sure.
I feel like hornet queen, end hostilities, duneblast, hero's downfall, murderous cut are all answers to r/g monsters. What about them is giving you trouble?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My posts end threads
Decks
Modern BGR Jund RGB BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB BWGAbzan CompanyGWB
I always feel like they get their mana ramping up faster, and get out bigger threats in general. Drawing removal is great against them, but it seems like I don't always get enough. Sometimes they just ramp out, and I can only answer 1 of their guys. I guess that could just be bad luck though. I was wondering more about any particular card that is a blow out against them. Maybe I should make room for a singleton End Hostilities somewhere in my board.
Today I made my second Top 8 at a PPTQ this weekend. This is the list I played:
Round 1 - Mono Green Devotion: I won game 1 after powering through a couple Nylea's Disciple. I thought the round was going to be a bye, but proceeded to mulligan and not draw removal during the following games. I end up losing in 3. 0-1
Round 2 - Mardu Rabble: I lose game 1. Can't remember the specifics. Game 2 I curve out Fleecemane -> Anafenza -> Whip and get out to a lead. My opponent stabilized at 2, while I had a life total in the mid 30s. Eventually I finish him off by casting a Siege Rhino. Game 3 was drawn out quite a bit. I can't remember the exact details, but remember finishing him off with back to back Siege Rhino after bringing him down to 5. 1-1
Round 3 - Abzan Midrange: Game 1 is a good game, but I build up a wall with Elspeth and eventually land a Raid triggered Wingmate. That closes out game 1. My opponent was on the play in game 2, and stumbled on his 4th land drop. He also had a lot of pain lands, and limited options with only one source of white. I curve out better and make use of his Urborg to avoid losing life on my end. I win the match in 2. 2-1
Round 4 - Abzan Midrange: I draw into double Courser on turn 1. I repeatedly gain life from land drops and draw removal to bring my opponent down. Game 2 my opponent got mana staved. He was playing Voyaging Satyr, and I got a 2 for 1 early with Bile Blight. He still had no white sources when he got to 4 lands. His 5th land did tap for white, but it was a temple so it was EtB tapped. I had since dropped 2x Caryatid, Anafenza and a Hornet Queen. That was game. I win in. 3-1
Round 5 - UB Control: This game one was really drawn out. He wins the roll. I start with a perfect curve out of Fleecemane, Anafenza, Rhino, and Wingmate Roc. He thoughtseizes me and takes my Lion, and then drops Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver on turn 3, snagging a Rhino. I drop Anafenza, and am staring down my own Rhino on the following turn. After a long game with many Ashioks and Perilous Vault. I've gained enough life and dropped him enough that he was in lethal. I take him out after a 30 minute game. Game 2 I start with a mulligan. Then I come out strong. My opponent doesn't have a great draw and can't keep up. I win in 2. 4-1
Top 8 Quarter Finals - Abzan Aggro: This was my LGS, and my opponent was a regular that I have been playing with regularly for well over a year now. I am 4th going into top 8, and have the choice to go first. I see a hand with Bile Blight and Fleecemane, plus all my colors and not in bad ways. I probably should have mulliganed, but figured removal and a threat was good enough and I would draw into stuff. My turn 2 Fleecemane is answered by his, but I did draw Anafenza. I decide to swing, since Bile Blight is awful in this situation. He blocks and I drop Anafenza. I don't draw a single non-land card for the rest of the game, and lose hard after flooding out. Game 2 I start with Anafenza, Rhino, Wingmate and Whip + 3 pain lands. My opponent plays a t2 Heir of the Wilds. I drop Anafenza. He kills it with Hero's Downfall. I draw a basic and cast Rhino (only having to pay 2 life for pain lands this time). He hits it with Glare of Heresy and drops another Hier. I play Courser and pass turn. He drops Rhino and then swings for 6 with his 2x Heir. I've got Charm in hand for his Rhino, but between paying life for my spells and taking a beating from his creatures, the game was already over. I lost in 2.
I seem to have this habit of hitting top 8, and then losing in the quarter finals. It's a habit I need to break.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I can much more enthusiastically endorse Erebos, God of the Dead. Against U/W control and Sidisi Reanimator decks that don't pressure your life total, he is great for card draw considering all the life gain I run and he turns off their life gain. I couldn't ask for more from one card. Sultai Reanimator can't even get him off the board once he hits. There's a lot of life gain running around right now and Erebos gives you certainty in races. I've raced Jeskai Tempo with Fleecemane, Rhino, and kill spells for Mantis Rider, and knowing that you can extend a bit without expecting Jeskai Charm or Seeker of the Way lifegain to screw up your math is nice, though it can be tough finding the turn to stick it. I had one mega-grindy mirror match where I was able to draw practically my entire deck because I had a Whip and 2 Coursers in play for lifegain and never let myself get devotion (blanking Abzan Charm). If it weren't for Erebos, I would have lost the round but instead I had freedom to grab multiple cards per turn and finally work through all of his blockers and kill spells.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/holiday-spirit-2014-12-24
My experiences with Duneblast haven't been that great, so I guess I'd say neither Ugin or Duneblast. Sometimes, they kill the guy you saved in response, then you overpaid for a wrath. Sometimes, you are facing an onslaught of tokens or Temur dudes or Stormbreath or whatever and you're looking to reset and save your hide rather than break a board stall. Sometimes you do need to be able to remove a bestowed Herald of Torment or Boon Satyr or whatever. Sometimes you miss land drops. For those reasons, I prefer End Hostilities to Duneblast in the majority of matches. You can still break late game parity with End Hostilities. I've pulled off this maneuver with 10 dork/land mana in play--make an ill-advised attack with Courser, etc on a clogged board, opponent doesn't block fearing Abzan Charm counters, tap Caryatids first to cast End Hostilities, follow up tapping other 5 mana to cast Wingmate Roc with raid trigger leaving your opponent with 2 large creatures to deal with before he can even bother casting his own and the ability to handily threaten any planeswalkers he might have had.
.
I was thinking about cutting a downfall and replacing it with a 3rd utter end in the main, so I can have 4 utter end and an erase post-board to kill whip of erebos.
I'm also thinking that there will be a lot of the abzan agro deck floating around at the next ptq (there's a lot of it on mtgo right now), so I was thinking about replacing the 2nd duneblast in the board with a perilous vault. This will deal with a monstroused fleecemane lion, which can be a big problem. The only answers I currently have to a monstroused lion are siege rhino blocking it indefinitely, which can be easily killed, and Elspeth. The vault will kill my permanents but I already kill my creatures with my sweepers and I can play around it with my walkers. Just playing a vault and not cracking it will probably make my opponents slow down, and I might not even have to crack it.
What do you guys think about these changes?
I'm about to play in a daily with the 3 utter ends in the main and only 3 downfalls, I'm more interested in what you guys think about perilous vault.
Can't wait until I can get ugin in here.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Just my impression--I could be way off and it's hard to say without seeing the rest of your deck. Good luck!
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers (6)
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
Spells (13)
4 Abzan Charm
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Utter End
4 Thoughtseize
4 Forest
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bile Blight
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Unravel the Aether
2 End Hostilities
1 Utter End
2 Murderous Cut
2 Read the Bones
1 Duneblast
I got out with a bad start at 0-2, losing to Mardu and Abzan Whip in rounds 1 and 2 respectively. I've somewhat managed to rattle off 4 consecutive wins against Temur Aggro, Abzan Aggro and 2 Abzan Midrange decks in the later rounds thanks to good draws.
Some notes on my losses
Mardu - I seem to notice that Abzan Midrange has a strong game 1 against this deck but is an uphill battle for games 1 and 2. I'm not sure if its the matchup or if I'm sideboarding incorrectly. What I notice on some Mardu players is that they side out Hordeling Outburst when they are on the draw but against the guy who beat me, he kept them in all 3 games. There's a game where I did not bring in my Drown in Sorrows, a decision I sorely regret, (I'm on the play) presuming he boarded them out, and in the end I was gobbled up by 5 Goblin Tokens I think. So what's the general rule for this? Here's my SB guide as I remember.
on the play
+2 bile blight
+2 read the bones
+2 end hostilities
-4 caryatid
-1 sorin
-1 thoughtseize
on the draw
+2 end hostilities
+2 bile blight
+2 drown in sorrow
+2 read the bones
-2 anafenza
-1 wingmate roc
-4 caryatid
-1 sorin
Abzan Whip - this matchup is really hard pre and post board. I really think Thoughtseize shines in this matchup but unfortunately, I only drew them once in the whole 2 games. I think I've really got to aggro out this deck as reaching Hornet Queen mana is really hard to win against without drawing any sweepers and god forbid they have Whip in play.
I am thinking what to play, an edited version of mclaren's or bbd's. both are good. mclaren's though, is time hungry and doesn't really have a high win rate game 1.
Here's what I've been playing for several months now.
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Plenty
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
Creatures - 18
3 Fleecemane Lion
3 Rakshasa Deathdealer
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Siege Rhino
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Whip of Erebos
Instants & Sorceries - 16
3 Bile Blight
2 Drown in Sorrow
4 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Utter End
3 Thoughtseize
2 Deicide
2 Back to Nature
1 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 End Hostilities
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
I haven't taken it to any major events, but my LGS is pretty diverse. On any given night, I might face Jeskai Control, Jeskai Tempo, MGD, B/G Constellation, Sidisi Whip, R/G/x Monsters, Abzan Aggro, Mardu, U/B Control, or even mono-black aggro. I feel confident in my plan going into any matchup, and I've consistently put up very solid results.
Originally, I ran two Wingmate Roc, but recently cut them for the third Reaper and third Bile Blight. I got tired of trying to set up Raid through all the removal running around, and the WW seemed to get in the way just a little too often. That change also allowed me to turn a fetch land into a scry, and drop a Plains for a Swamp, improving the efficiency of early removal. I haven't looked back once. Reaper is a brutal topdeck in the late game, and Bile Blight is extraordinarily effective against fast decks and useful in all but a few matchups.
The sideboard is always evolving, and right now the full 75 reflects an abundance of low-toughness creatures. I also wanted to have a strong plan against Constellation decks until I have more experience against them, thus the Back to Nature.
Makes me think of blue devotion when Born of the Gods came out.
As someone said before. Preparing the field for roc can be hard sometimes or no even worth. So, dromoka seems great.
Until then, please confine your discussion of spoiled cards to the appropriate forum.
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Courser of Kruphix
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
4x Siege Rhino
3x Broodwing Roc
Other Spells: 14
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Abzan Charm
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Last Breath
1x Murderous Cut
1x Whip of Erebos
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Temple of Malady
2x Windswept Heath
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Temple of Silence
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Mana Confluence
2x Forest
2x Plains
4x Thoughtseize
3x Bile Blight
3x Drown in Sorrow
2x Hornet Queen
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Utter End
1x Murderous Cut
Round 1 - Sultai Reanimator: Can't recall the exact details, but my opponent conceded to me in both games. I remember he conceded game 2 after I played Whip, reanimated Anafenza, and then swung with the team for 14 lifegain just from the Wingmate Roc triggers (I had 9 Elspeth tokens), and then I was gaining another 24 through combat damage via Whip. I win in 2. 1-0
Round 2 - Jeskai Tokens: I lose game 1 pretty hard, and bring in Thoughtseize, Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow for gaames 2-3. Both pretty much went the same. I drew the game out and got blow outs from Drown in Sorrow. I win in 3. 2-0
Round 3 - Abzan Midrange: I got flooded pretty hard in game 1, and then struggled to get past 4 in game 2. My opponent had a pretty smooth curve and made short work of me. Luckily I had plenty of time to get some pizza. I lose in 2. 2-1
Round 4 - Abzan Constellation: It looked like my deck, but with what I would call less aggressive creatures. He mulls to 6 in game 1, and 5 in game 2. I curve out pretty nicely in both games and he loses before he even gets going. I win in 2. 3-1
Round 5 - Abzan Midrange: Realizing I have to play to get into the top, I go into a good match with a fellow Abzan player. Our decks were pretty much the same, and I lose game 1 in one of the best games I played all day. Game 2 is much the same, and I pull off a play through very tight conditions via double Wingmate Roc. I'm able to bring him down to 1, and then finish him off with a Siege Rhino. Game 3 was just a blow out in my favor. I go Anafenza into Rhino, into Wingmate Roc. I win in 3. 4-1
Top 8 - Abzan Midrange: I probably get a little too aggressive with my plays. I get my opponent down to 3, and have a Rhino with a +1/+1 counter. He stabilized and has double Rhino + Fleecemane. I topdeck Charm and swing, hoping he goes for a double block. He triple blocks, and I trade my Rhino for one of his. I use Charm to draw, and pull 2 lands. I don't draw anything for the rest of the game, and die with an Elspeth on top of my library. Game 2 is a lot of back and forth with us each having double Fleecemane Lion, and we keep trading blows back and forth and clearing the path with removal. Eventually I am left with Elspeth and 2 Hornet Queen in hand, with only 5 lands (I missed some land drops). I needed two lands in a row to cast Elspeth, -3 to blow Rhinos, and then draw another land for Hornet Queen to trade with his Wingmate Roc. I die without seeing my 6th land, which happened to be my next draw. I lose in 2.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Just came back to Magic, and, upon discovering WBG midrange is a thing, i got very excited (it is what dragged me back!)
I came up with the following deck list, I'm trying to keep the cost around $175-200 though (I know this is about all out no budget, but thought posting for feedback in this thread would be best. And that price range doesnt fit in witht he budget section)
I don't have a SB yet as I am not too sure about what threats are prevalent at present so was hoping for some advice there.
I notice I really lack card draw and was wondering if slotting in some Read the Bones would be worth while.
Also land is a bit janky.
Once I have a deck to play with, I will upgrade cards (banishing light -> heroes Downfall, ETB tapped lands to Temples ect.) )
Thank you for any feed back on the deck!
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
4x Courser of Kruphix
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Reaper of the Wilds
4x Siege Rhino
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Wingmate Roc
2x Whip of Erebos
Instant (6)
3x Abzan Charm
2x Bile Blight
1x Utter End
Sorcery (1)
1x Drown in Sorrow
Enchantment (3)
3x Banishing Light
2x Blossoming Sands
5x Forest
2x Jungle Hollow
4x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Scoured Barrens
3x Swamp
WU$50 Budget UW heroicUW
Modern
WR Boros Burn RW
Commander/EDH
(WiP) RNorin the TrollR
I think you should play 4 charms (taking out a light to do so).
Also, take out a swamp for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Might even consider 2. A lot of people don't run 2 Urborgs, but only once have I run into a situation where I had one in play and pulled my 2nd.. and it was late game anyways so it wasn't that big a deal. I fully believe that the benefits of a 2nd one outweigh the drawback of potentially pulling it early. However, I also run a Mana Confluence and 4 Windswept Heath so I have targets that benefit from it. Your current land situation I'd only run 1 until you get more of a reason to have it.
All other recommendations go beyond keeping the price low. Read the Bones is good, and if it was me with that decklist.. I'd probably take out a reaper and fleecemane to fit in 2 Read the Bones.
Oh, another singleton card that should be cheap enough to add is a single (or two) Hornet Queen.
As for the sideboard...
It more depends on what you'll be playing against where you play.
Standard sideboard fare...
- Some kind of enchantment/artifact removal. The threats are gods, Perilous Vault, Jeskai Ascendancy and Whip of Erebos. For you? Maybe Reclamation Sage to go with your creature plan.
- AT LEAST a 2nd Drown in Sorrow.
- Some board sweepers. Duneblast or End Hostilities.
- Maybe another Utter End or two.
I have updated to include your changes
What about SB?
What would be some good inclusions?
WU$50 Budget UW heroicUW
Modern
WR Boros Burn RW
Commander/EDH
(WiP) RNorin the TrollR
Here's my current list (Abzan Aggro/Midrange tweaked to my style/desire)...
2x Courser of Kruphix
3x High Sentinels of Arashin
4x Siege Rhino
2x Reaper of the Wilds
2x Wingmate Roc
1x Hornet Queen
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1x Liliana Vess
4x Abzan Charm
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Utter End
1x Murderous Cut
2x Bile Blight
2x Read the Bones
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Temple of Plenty
2x Temple of Malady
2x Temple of Silence
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Windswept Heath
1x Mana Confluence
2x Plains
2x Forest
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Stain the Mind
2x Utter End
3x Drown in Sorrow
1x End Hostilities
1x Duneblast
4x Mistcutter Hydra
SIDEBOARD
Thoughtseize: This is when I need to remove key cards early. A good example would be Jeskai Ascendancy and Ensoul Artifact. Why Thoughtseize instead of enchantment removal? ..because it also gets a lot of other pesky things (like Stormbreath Dragon. However, it's an expensive card. Despise is a suitable replacement, but not for me.
Stain the Mind: To remove key cards, but not early.
Utter End: Here's my enchant (and other things) removal. Amusingly, I had enchant specific removal to combat Jeskai Ascendancy decks, but I've yet to play a single one.
Drown in Sorrow: Weenie/Token decks are a PAIN. I noticed you have Drown in your main. That's very much a meta call. I chose Bile Blight over Drown because Bile Blight has more impact. What if I'm playing the mirror match? Drown in Sorrow is useless. At least Bile Blight can be used to catch a rhino with a courser. However, if you're constantly fighting weenie/token decks.. then Drown is much more useful game 1.
End Hostilities / Duneblast: My board sweepers. I actually think I want to take out Duneblast for something else. Either a 2nd End Hostilities or something else (like Garruk).
Mistcutter Hydra: This is my attempt (although I don't have enough experience with it yet) to combat control decks. Also, works good at stopping Savage Knuckleblade.
(At the end is future changes)
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
4x Courser of Kruphix
3x Fleecemane Lion
1x Hornet Queen
2x Reaper of the Wilds
4x Siege Rhino
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Wingmate Roc
Instant (8)
4x Abzan Charm
2x Bile Blight
2x Utter End
2x Read the Bones
Enchantment (2)
2x Banishing Light
Artifact (2)
2x Whip of Erebos
Land (24)
2x Blossoming Sands
5x Forest
2x Jungle Hollow
4x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Scoured Barrens
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Despise
3x Drown in Sorrow
1x Duneblast
1x End Hostilities
1x Hornet Queen
3x Mistcutter Hydra
1x Stain the Mind
2x Utter End
Banishing Light -> Hero's Downfall
Adding 4 temples
+2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
+1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Reaper of the Wilds -> High Sentinels of Arashin
WU$50 Budget UW heroicUW
Modern
WR Boros Burn RW
Commander/EDH
(WiP) RNorin the TrollR
I don't know about 2 Sorins and 2 Whips together. I ran that for a while, and I just never felt comfortable with that 2nd Whip. Yes, it does suck pretty bad when I lose my sole Whip, but I just didn't like the 2nd. However, I also run Liliana main and so I can tutor it up if needed and so it's "sort of" like having a 2nd Whip.
I think what made me uncomfortable about it is the fact that while Whip is powerful, it removes a slot for something that advances me closer to a win. Not always is my graveyard full for Whip use, and sometimes casting it means I can't cast anything else. I just hate being put into that situation.
I'm also iffy about running a 2nd Sorin, but he's really good and I want a backup copy if I pull one early and decide to race him to ultimate (and lose the race).
Ultimately, I'd either do 2 Sorins and 1 whip or 1 Sorin and 2 whips. Just a matter of your style really.
Ajani is great. He works so well in this deck. A lot of people have had great success with "not whiffing" his search too much (me included), and he can make your caryatids and coursers useful late game. I think the hardest choice to make sometimes is whether to use his ultimate asap or prolong it a turn so you can keep him around.
Regarding Reaper into the High Sentinels.
First.. reaper is an amazing card. It's amazing early (4/5 for 4) and it's amazing late (4/5 with deathtouch and hexproof).
Originally my Abzan deck was me going, "I want to play rhinos! ..and I want to do outlast without using the outlast ability!" I was playing Abzan Ascendancy, Abzan Falconer, Anafenza and even Archetype of Courage. However, it really didn't work well and so I abandoned things. Anafenza was the last to go (and I'd love to get her back in so I'm always thinking about her.. that's not creepy at all ). One card that has stuck around are the Sentinels. I just love everything about them and they work really well in my deck. They're also leaving me room to take 1 out and put in that new legendary dragon.
..but that's me..
..and I don't think anyone else plays them
So don't take my playing them as a "word of a pro" type situation. Just have to assess the direction you want your deck to go. The Sentinels HAVE won me some games for sure.
I am thinking maybe
+3 Hero's Downfall
+4 temples
+1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
+1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
+1 Liliana Vess
-1 Whip of Erebos (1 total in deck now)
-1 Courser of Kruphix (doesn't do much for me late game)
-1 Utter End (move 1 to SB
-4 ETB tapped lands
-2 banishing light
-1 Bile Blight (move this to SB)
SB
-3 Despise
-1 Drown in Sorrow
+3 Thougyhtseize
+1 Bile Blight
-1 Mistcutter Hydra
+1 Utter End
WU$50 Budget UW heroicUW
Modern
WR Boros Burn RW
Commander/EDH
(WiP) RNorin the TrollR
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
Today I made my second Top 8 at a PPTQ this weekend. This is the list I played:
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Courser of Kruphix
3x Anafenza, the Foremost
4x Siege Rhino
1x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Wingmate Roc
Other Spells: 12
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Abzan Charm
2x Bile Blight
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Murderous Cut
1x Whip of Erebos
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Llanowar Wastes
3x Temple of Malady
2x Windswept Heath
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Temple of Silence
1x Mana Confluence
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Plains
2x Forest
4x Thoughtseize
3x Drown in Sorrow
2x Erase
2x Hornet Queen
1x Bile Blight
1x Utter End
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Abzan Charm
Round 1 - Mono Green Devotion: I won game 1 after powering through a couple Nylea's Disciple. I thought the round was going to be a bye, but proceeded to mulligan and not draw removal during the following games. I end up losing in 3. 0-1
Round 2 - Mardu Rabble: I lose game 1. Can't remember the specifics. Game 2 I curve out Fleecemane -> Anafenza -> Whip and get out to a lead. My opponent stabilized at 2, while I had a life total in the mid 30s. Eventually I finish him off by casting a Siege Rhino. Game 3 was drawn out quite a bit. I can't remember the exact details, but remember finishing him off with back to back Siege Rhino after bringing him down to 5. 1-1
Round 3 - Abzan Midrange: Game 1 is a good game, but I build up a wall with Elspeth and eventually land a Raid triggered Wingmate. That closes out game 1. My opponent was on the play in game 2, and stumbled on his 4th land drop. He also had a lot of pain lands, and limited options with only one source of white. I curve out better and make use of his Urborg to avoid losing life on my end. I win the match in 2. 2-1
Round 4 - Abzan Midrange: I draw into double Courser on turn 1. I repeatedly gain life from land drops and draw removal to bring my opponent down. Game 2 my opponent got mana staved. He was playing Voyaging Satyr, and I got a 2 for 1 early with Bile Blight. He still had no white sources when he got to 4 lands. His 5th land did tap for white, but it was a temple so it was EtB tapped. I had since dropped 2x Caryatid, Anafenza and a Hornet Queen. That was game. I win in. 3-1
Round 5 - UB Control: This game one was really drawn out. He wins the roll. I start with a perfect curve out of Fleecemane, Anafenza, Rhino, and Wingmate Roc. He thoughtseizes me and takes my Lion, and then drops Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver on turn 3, snagging a Rhino. I drop Anafenza, and am staring down my own Rhino on the following turn. After a long game with many Ashioks and Perilous Vault. I've gained enough life and dropped him enough that he was in lethal. I take him out after a 30 minute game. Game 2 I start with a mulligan. Then I come out strong. My opponent doesn't have a great draw and can't keep up. I win in 2. 4-1
Top 8 Quarter Finals - Abzan Aggro: This was my LGS, and my opponent was a regular that I have been playing with regularly for well over a year now. I am 4th going into top 8, and have the choice to go first. I see a hand with Bile Blight and Fleecemane, plus all my colors and not in bad ways. I probably should have mulliganed, but figured removal and a threat was good enough and I would draw into stuff. My turn 2 Fleecemane is answered by his, but I did draw Anafenza. I decide to swing, since Bile Blight is awful in this situation. He blocks and I drop Anafenza. I don't draw a single non-land card for the rest of the game, and lose hard after flooding out. Game 2 I start with Anafenza, Rhino, Wingmate and Whip + 3 pain lands. My opponent plays a t2 Heir of the Wilds. I drop Anafenza. He kills it with Hero's Downfall. I draw a basic and cast Rhino (only having to pay 2 life for pain lands this time). He hits it with Glare of Heresy and drops another Hier. I play Courser and pass turn. He drops Rhino and then swings for 6 with his 2x Heir. I've got Charm in hand for his Rhino, but between paying life for my spells and taking a beating from his creatures, the game was already over. I lost in 2.
I seem to have this habit of hitting top 8, and then losing in the quarter finals. It's a habit I need to break.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF