arcbond on any of your life link creatures is awesome deflecting palm + arcbond on opponents creature satyr firedancer is your pseudo card advantage helping you apply pressure while you keeping board clear valorous stance on your creature + arcbond leaves you with something on board
I like what Nazradin is doing with this list, he's getting so much value on his spells either from Firedancer or Soulfire, and either way he's packing a lot of direct damage if there isn't a board presence (control)
Guys I think we should be running Mardu Scout just for removal based decklists as we can easily be shut down by heavy removal based lists, it's the only way I think RW can fight sorcery speed board wipes.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
The primer has been updated and Danny Goldstein's Top 2 list from SCG DC has been added as well!
Speaking of that build, I got 2nd at a PPTQ yesterday with that build -2 Magma Spray in the Sideboard +2 Wild Slash. The deck was absurd, can't think of a single card I'd change.
how many lands are people running? the curve is really low but you really need that 3rd land drop on turn 3. and getting to 6 so you can buy back is relevant. with the amount of lifegain in the deck I am wondering if i should be just running this more like a modern delver and running 6 fetches
The primer has been updated and Danny Goldstein's Top 2 list from SCG DC has been added as well!
Speaking of that build, I got 2nd at a PPTQ yesterday with that build -2 Magma Spray in the Sideboard +2 Wild Slash. The deck was absurd, can't think of a single card I'd change.
Match Records in tournament:
Abzan Aggro: 3-2
Abzan Midrange: 1-0
U/W Heroic: 1-0
Sidisi Whip: 1-0
Jeskai Tokens: 1-0
What was your sideboard strategy for each of those matchups? I really like that list, but SB choices have always been my weakest point. I'm used to playing Jeskai Tokens already, and this looks right up my alley.
Well, I was on team Mardu but felt that black really didn't add much other than crackling doom. Here is my red/white list. It's more of a midrange aggro build, but the lifelink and flyers help me out-aggro other decks while using cheap removal.
I will be running this at SCG regionals this weekend (with a few tweaks perhaps). I wanted to run Brimaz, but really didn't have room. I felt like the phoenix with flying was stronger, and I like the goblin rabblemasters. I may playtest around changing that up in the future as he is a strong card.
What's the general opinion on Hordeling Outburst? every time i saw it on my hand i wished that it were anything besides land...since we're not running Wingmate, Butcher or Jeskai Ascendancy...which in my opinion were the main reason to play with it on Mardu/Jeskai..and in a more creature based of RW..i don't feel that it's trylly necessary...Rable tokens may for her own generates more value for stoke...i might be wrong though...hoping to read your thoughts on this question...tks mates!
What's the general opinion on Hordeling Outburst? every time i saw it on my hand i wished that it were anything besides land...since we're not running Wingmate, Butcher or Jeskai Ascendancy...which in my opinion were the main reason to play with it on Mardu/Jeskai..and in a more creature based of RW..i don't feel that it's trylly necessary...Rable tokens may for her own generates more value for stoke...i might be wrong though...hoping to read your thoughts on this question...tks mates!
My feeling is 4 flamewake and 4 goblin rabblemaster are better. I'd consider running 2 Hordeling Outburst if I wanted more three drops, but I wouldn't run more then 10 at 3cc.
I'm currently on the fence about Outburst. It is a nice follow-up play for Seeker of the Way, or can be chained into Stoke the Flames, but it's also a good way to get blown out by Doomwake Giant or Bile Blight. I don't think it's bad in R/W Aggro in general, but I do think it's bad in several matchups. It's a good candidate to cut post-board as it's bad against Drown in Sorrow etc, and it may just be bad in general for some metas.
Outpost Siege - I don't like it as much as Chandra, Pyromaster overall, but I've been running one in the sideboard for grindy matchups. So far, results are inconclusive. It has been powerful but slow. Maybe too slow, but I'm not sure yet.
Speaking of slow, tried one Ashcloud Phoenix in the main and hated it. Definitely not fast enough. I just don't think it's a good card at all.
Interesting points on Flameawake Phoenix i've never thought about her on RW Agro...i'm running 4 Rabble plus 2 Brimaz..perhaps i'm gonna cut outburst for the phoenix
if you are using the 2 monks then outburst doesn't synergise as well as adding cheaper cc burn imo
the phoniex is really good but only if your running a lot of ways to trigger ferocious , so this isn't the deck for it
outpost siege in the board seems reasonable as a answer to ugin and removal heavy decks. as a side note I have been playing on line a bit this week and have faced so many temur ascendancy combo and Gx reamp to ugin decks. I do wonder if this will translate to the irl meta though looking at the scg 5k from the weekend was pretty varied but with an aggressive slant but no RW in the top 16.
Here's a deck I posted on another thread. It's more of a burn deck really, but I guess it's relevant enough. I haven't had the time to test it yet. Any opinions? Trying to keep the CMC at a minimum, and focus on burn.
I don't think Flamewake Phoenix is good at all. Chandra's Phoenix was decent in Burn decks because the recur ability had such great synergy with the rest of the deck. Flamewake only triggers when you already have something big and must attack. It's not very good.
The primer has been updated and Danny Goldstein's Top 2 list from SCG DC has been added as well!
Speaking of that build, I got 2nd at a PPTQ yesterday with that build -2 Magma Spray in the Sideboard +2 Wild Slash. The deck was absurd, can't think of a single card I'd change.
Match Records in tournament:
Abzan Aggro: 3-2
Abzan Midrange: 1-0
U/W Heroic: 1-0
Sidisi Whip: 1-0
Jeskai Tokens: 1-0
What was your sideboard strategy for each of those matchups? I really like that list, but SB choices have always been my weakest point. I'm used to playing Jeskai Tokens already, and this looks right up my alley.
This is what I went with:
Both Abzan matchups:
-3 Magma Jet, -2 Colladeral Damage, -3 Seeker of the Way, 1 Raise the Alarm
+2 Glares, +2 Elspeth, +2 End Hostilities, +1 Stormbreath Dragon, +2 Hushwing Gryff
Sidisi Whip (Didn't see Doomwake Giant):
-2 Magma Jet
+2 Hushwing Gryff
Sidenote for anyone who asked about Outpost Siege: I honestly think if this deck that card is strictly better than Chandra. In fact, in most scenarios Chandra would have been terrible where Outpost Siege was amazing.
Thanks, the only thing I'm real scare of is if the green ramp decks get out of control. I guess my only real option there is board in more cheap burn and Erase to get rid of the mana dorks and Frontier Siege? Because I don't think that's a late-game battle I'm going to win.
I'm currently on the fence about Outburst. It is a nice follow-up play for Seeker of the Way, or can be chained into Stoke the Flames, but it's also a good way to get blown out by Doomwake Giant or Bile Blight. I don't think it's bad in R/W Aggro in general, but I do think it's bad in several matchups. It's a good candidate to cut post-board as it's bad against Drown in Sorrow etc, and it may just be bad in general for some metas.
Outpost Siege - I don't like it as much as Chandra, Pyromaster overall, but I've been running one in the sideboard for grindy matchups. So far, results are inconclusive. It has been powerful but slow. Maybe too slow, but I'm not sure yet.
Speaking of slow, tried one Ashcloud Phoenix in the main and hated it. Definitely not fast enough. I just don't think it's a good card at all.
I like ashcloud but it can be slow. Shaman of the Great Hunt is worth playtesting. The +1/+1 counters can pump a turn 3 rabble and rabble tokens as well as phoenix. Sure they can chump, but against control its probably free haste damage, and against aggro your going to get a boost to at least 1 of your attackers and a trade with him at worst case.
I'm currently on the fence about Outburst. It is a nice follow-up play for Seeker of the Way, or can be chained into Stoke the Flames, but it's also a good way to get blown out by Doomwake Giant or Bile Blight. I don't think it's bad in R/W Aggro in general, but I do think it's bad in several matchups. It's a good candidate to cut post-board as it's bad against Drown in Sorrow etc, and it may just be bad in general for some metas.
Outpost Siege - I don't like it as much as Chandra, Pyromaster overall, but I've been running one in the sideboard for grindy matchups. So far, results are inconclusive. It has been powerful but slow. Maybe too slow, but I'm not sure yet.
Speaking of slow, tried one Ashcloud Phoenix in the main and hated it. Definitely not fast enough. I just don't think it's a good card at all.
I like ashcloud but it can be slow. Shaman of the Great Hunt is worth playtesting. The +1/+1 counters can pump a turn 3 rabble and rabble tokens as well as phoenix. Sure they can chump, but against control its probably free haste damage, and against aggro your going to get a boost to at least 1 of your attackers and a trade with him at worst case.
If you're using shaman just for the counters why not use citadel siege since you won't use his other ability anyways.
I'm currently on the fence about Outburst. It is a nice follow-up play for Seeker of the Way, or can be chained into Stoke the Flames, but it's also a good way to get blown out by Doomwake Giant or Bile Blight. I don't think it's bad in R/W Aggro in general, but I do think it's bad in several matchups. It's a good candidate to cut post-board as it's bad against Drown in Sorrow etc, and it may just be bad in general for some metas.
Outpost Siege - I don't like it as much as Chandra, Pyromaster overall, but I've been running one in the sideboard for grindy matchups. So far, results are inconclusive. It has been powerful but slow. Maybe too slow, but I'm not sure yet.
Speaking of slow, tried one Ashcloud Phoenix in the main and hated it. Definitely not fast enough. I just don't think it's a good card at all.
I like ashcloud but it can be slow. Shaman of the Great Hunt is worth playtesting. The +1/+1 counters can pump a turn 3 rabble and rabble tokens as well as phoenix. Sure they can chump, but against control its probably free haste damage, and against aggro your going to get a boost to at least 1 of your attackers and a trade with him at worst case.
If you're using shaman just for the counters why not use citadel siege since you won't use his other ability anyways.
Because citadel siege can't attack your opponent for 4 damage on the turn you play it.
2x Gods Willing
4x Lightning Strike
2x Magma Jet
2x Stoke the Flames
4x Valorous Stance
4x Wild Slash
Sorcery (2)
2x Tormenting Voice
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Monastery Mentor
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Seeker of the Way
Land (22)
4x Battlefield Forge
1x Mana Confluence
8x Mountain
5x Plains
4x Temple of Triumph
3x Arc Lightning
2x End Hostilities
2x Erase
2x Glare of Heresy
3x Hushwing Gryff
2x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Wind-Scarred Crag
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
3 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Deflecting Palm
2 Valorous Stance
4 Wild Slash
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Arcbond
5 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Evolving Wilds
3 Barrage of Boulders
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Gods Willing
2 Valorous Stance
1 Outpost Siege
2 Erase
2 Burn Away
arcbond has a few angles of attack
arcbond on any of your life link creatures is awesome
deflecting palm + arcbond on opponents creature
satyr firedancer is your pseudo card advantage helping you apply pressure while you keeping board clear
valorous stance on your creature + arcbond leaves you with something on board
I have tried hordeling outburst and raise the alarm but they just didn't fit as well as seekers and more burn
is lacking either a proper card draw or filter just to get over mana screw or flood
Guys I think we should be running Mardu Scout just for removal based decklists as we can easily be shut down by heavy removal based lists, it's the only way I think RW can fight sorcery speed board wipes.
Mana Base
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mana Confluence
7 Mountain
5 Plains
Creature Base
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Monastery Mentor
2 brimaz king of oreskos
4 Seeker of the way
4 monastery Swiftspear
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Instant/Sorcery
4 Wild slash
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Outpost Siege
1 Stoke the Flames
2 Chained to the rocks
2 deflecting palm
2 Erase
1 Archbond
4 Valorous Stance
3 Arc Lightning
3 Hordeling Outburst
have a pptq in 2 weeks. No standard events till then Do you think this is a good list to take or should I change it up.
Speaking of that build, I got 2nd at a PPTQ yesterday with that build -2 Magma Spray in the Sideboard +2 Wild Slash. The deck was absurd, can't think of a single card I'd change.
For reference:
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Seeker of the Way
1 Soulfire Grand Master
6 Mountain
5 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Wind-Scarred Crag
2 Collateral Damage
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Valorous Stance
4 Hordeling Outburst
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Erase
4 Wild Slash
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 End Hostilities
2 Glare of Heresy
Match Records in tournament:
Abzan Aggro: 3-2
Abzan Midrange: 1-0
U/W Heroic: 1-0
Sidisi Whip: 1-0
Jeskai Tokens: 1-0
how many lands are people running? the curve is really low but you really need that 3rd land drop on turn 3. and getting to 6 so you can buy back is relevant. with the amount of lifegain in the deck I am wondering if i should be just running this more like a modern delver and running 6 fetches
What was your sideboard strategy for each of those matchups? I really like that list, but SB choices have always been my weakest point. I'm used to playing Jeskai Tokens already, and this looks right up my alley.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Here is the deck I have been playtesting.
3 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
3 Valorous Stance
3 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Evolving Wilds
5 Plains
8 Mountain
2 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Erase
2 Hushwing Gryff
4 Glare of Heresy
3 Magma Spray
2 Banishing Light
1 Burn Away
I will be running this at SCG regionals this weekend (with a few tweaks perhaps). I wanted to run Brimaz, but really didn't have room. I felt like the phoenix with flying was stronger, and I like the goblin rabblemasters. I may playtest around changing that up in the future as he is a strong card.
UR Twin - RIP
My feeling is 4 flamewake and 4 goblin rabblemaster are better. I'd consider running 2 Hordeling Outburst if I wanted more three drops, but I wouldn't run more then 10 at 3cc.
Outpost Siege - I don't like it as much as Chandra, Pyromaster overall, but I've been running one in the sideboard for grindy matchups. So far, results are inconclusive. It has been powerful but slow. Maybe too slow, but I'm not sure yet.
Speaking of slow, tried one Ashcloud Phoenix in the main and hated it. Definitely not fast enough. I just don't think it's a good card at all.
Interesting points on Flameawake Phoenix i've never thought about her on RW Agro...i'm running 4 Rabble plus 2 Brimaz..perhaps i'm gonna cut outburst for the phoenix
UR Twin - RIP
if you are using the 2 monks then outburst doesn't synergise as well as adding cheaper cc burn imo
the phoniex is really good but only if your running a lot of ways to trigger ferocious , so this isn't the deck for it
outpost siege in the board seems reasonable as a answer to ugin and removal heavy decks. as a side note I have been playing on line a bit this week and have faced so many temur ascendancy combo and Gx reamp to ugin decks. I do wonder if this will translate to the irl meta though looking at the scg 5k from the weekend was pretty varied but with an aggressive slant but no RW in the top 16.
4 Humble Defector
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
4 Wild Slash
4 Collateral Damage
4 Temple of Triumph
8 Mountain
4 Plains
One thing I'd like to add is 2 Outpost Siege. Not sure what to remove, though. I have no idea if it's viable but I'll try to set it up soon.
Humble Defector is even worse. No, it does not become good with Collateral Damage, that's too much work for a Divination.
Also, not running Goblin Rabblemaster in this deck is a huge mistake. Owen Turtenwald has a good explanation as to why.
This is what I went with:
Both Abzan matchups:
-3 Magma Jet, -2 Colladeral Damage, -3 Seeker of the Way, 1 Raise the Alarm
+2 Glares, +2 Elspeth, +2 End Hostilities, +1 Stormbreath Dragon, +2 Hushwing Gryff
U/W Heroic:
-4 Raise the Alarm, -2 Outpost Siege
+4 Wild Slash, +2 Glares
Jeskai Tokens:
-2 Colladeral Damage, -2 Magma Jet
+2 Glares, +2 Erase
Sidisi Whip (Didn't see Doomwake Giant):
-2 Magma Jet
+2 Hushwing Gryff
Sidenote for anyone who asked about Outpost Siege: I honestly think if this deck that card is strictly better than Chandra. In fact, in most scenarios Chandra would have been terrible where Outpost Siege was amazing.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
arcbond is awesome vs the g ramp decks
I like ashcloud but it can be slow. Shaman of the Great Hunt is worth playtesting. The +1/+1 counters can pump a turn 3 rabble and rabble tokens as well as phoenix. Sure they can chump, but against control its probably free haste damage, and against aggro your going to get a boost to at least 1 of your attackers and a trade with him at worst case.
Because citadel siege can't attack your opponent for 4 damage on the turn you play it.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Shaman of the Great Hunt
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Wild Slash
3 Valorous Stance
3 Lightning Strike
2 Hordeling Outburst
3 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Evolving Wilds
5 Plains
8 Mountain
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Erase
2 Hushwing Gryff
4 Glare of Heresy
2 Magma Spray
2 Banishing Light
1 Burn Away
2 Arc Lightning