What makes it tier2 rather than tier1? (And what would it take for it to be tier1?)
It probably isn't even tier two. There simply haven't been any showings of it in the top 8 of a large event (which would make it tier 2, I would say), and it hasn't won an event or consistently made top 8 (which would make it tier 1). The deck is fun and sometimes can steal games from tier 1 decks. It has a good matchup against mono-green, but otherwise removal makes it frown, keeping it from really breaking out.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
What makes it tier2 rather than tier1? (And what would it take for it to be tier1?)
It probably isn't even tier two. There simply haven't been any showings of it in the top 8 of a large event (which would make it tier 2, I would say), and it hasn't won an event or consistently made top 8 (which would make it tier 1). The deck is fun and sometimes can steal games from tier 1 decks. It has a good matchup against mono-green, but otherwise removal makes it frown, keeping it from really breaking out.
We have extensive anti-removal by now though... I've found it pretty successful against that, unless I'm really unlucky with my draws.
Do you think it's possible to make this tier1/2? I'd like this to be competitive, since it's such a fun deck to play...
What makes it tier2 rather than tier1? (And what would it take for it to be tier1?)
It probably isn't even tier two. There simply haven't been any showings of it in the top 8 of a large event (which would make it tier 2, I would say), and it hasn't won an event or consistently made top 8 (which would make it tier 1). The deck is fun and sometimes can steal games from tier 1 decks. It has a good matchup against mono-green, but otherwise removal makes it frown, keeping it from really breaking out.
Although I can agree the deck lacks the raw consistency of a good stuff deck like Abzan that just jams every pushed spell in it's colors, that is just an oversimplified look at the tiers. When 50% of players at a tournament play abzan and 30% play jeskai, no matter how you look at it they are most likely to show in the top 16. Now the low amount of U/W Heroic players at any given event could be interpreted as not many people thinking the deck is very good or maybe they are just used to getting together whatever decks top 8 a pro tour and play that.
In my personal opinion the deck could use some tweaks to make it even better and possibly even run some abzan and jeskai hate mainboard to skew our already decent match ups against both. Right not I feel that the deck is 50/50 against abzan, 40/60 against jeskai, and 70/30 against Green strategies. That is coming from my own personal testing but from that I have to think that if I can tweak some things to bring up the jeskai matchup a bit the deck could be a real contender at a bigger tournament if more that 1-2 players sleeved it up for said tournament.
TL;DR the deck is under the radar or just unpopular right now which makes players underestimate it.
TL;DR the deck is under the radar or just unpopular right now which makes players underestimate it.
It's not as if good players don't know about the deck; Jared Boettcher played it at the block pro tour, but this weekend in LA he was on Jund aggro. Regardless of how many people play it, in order for the deck to be tier 1, people have to not only play it, but win with it. Tom Ross spiked states with Boss Sligh, seemingly the only one playing the deck after a few Opens, and today a Boss Sligh list made it to the top 8 of LA. As it stands, with the deck being under the radar and people underestimating it, the deck should have a chance to shine. When people are boarding against it, with Voyage's End perhaps, then you could argue that it could be tier 1, but... When people aren't prepared for a deck, that is the most opportune time for a deck to spike something.
Having played the deck for a bit, I think there are a few things holding it back. It doesn't match up well against decks that go horizontal, flooding the board with 1/1s and swarming you. The deck lacks answers to Rabblemaster and the Rabble Red deck gives it fits, not to mention Jeskai or Mardu tokens decks. Depending on how Jeskai Tempo is built, they can sometimes just match up well against your guys with Magma Spray/Jet, Lightning Strike, and Stoke. In games on the draw, you end up just getting out-tempoed by them, always being a turn to late, having to hold creatures in hand, till you have an extra mana with which to protect the creature with. At that point, you might have already been overrun by Mantis Rider. Jeskai's removal is more efficient than Abzan's, which makes it a tough matchup for UW Heroic. You can blow Abzan out in games in which you have a Favored Hoplite and two or three protection spells. Ordeal of Thassa, Aqueous Form, and the cantrips can help you find those. A God's Willing countering a Hero's Downfall and gaining the tempo of them wasting a turn spending all their mana on Downfall is actually a great play. And in that way, the Abzan matchup is the most dependent on variance, being a blowout at times and being miserable others, i.e., the times when you simply brick on drawing protection spells.
tl;dr Rabblemaster is a problem, Jeskai tempo just out-tempos your gameplan if you're not on the play, and the Abzan(/Mardu probably too) matchup is too draw dependent.
I think the deck is good, but it simply can't be considered tier 1 till it puts up results. And people know it exists. The RW variant top 16ed the pro tour. And the UW has won a little too, sure, at States and what not, maybe that warrants christening it tier 2, but I'm not convinced at the deck's power. It seems a lot like hexproof builds from last season, being able to put up good numbers when the operator is running hot, but otherwise it plays out like garbage.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
I'm considering swapping in a Fabled Hero for one Eidolon, but that leaves me with a few one of's and I think I might want to avoid that. I don't know if my creatures are stacked a bit heavy on 2, with it basically being 4 1-cost and 10 2-cost with 2 enchantments on top of that. I would get rid of both Eidolons and go with Fabled Heroes, but I don't like how they only get out on turn 3, or even later if you went to protect them. Meanwhile, the Eidolon's bestow cost can be reduced with Hero Of Iroas, and it has it's other upsides (becomes a creature after it's taken off, or can be played as a creature), but I'm just not sure. I'm also considering adding in Daxos of Meletia. He doesn't get Heroic bonuses, but he seems like an all-around fun guy with his own evasion. At the very least, he would be a target for removal. I was thinking +2 Daxos -1 Eidolon -1 Stratus Walk.
I went pretty heavy with protection/anti-removal I think, and the sideboard has some options to switch around with, adding more if needed. If my guys are getting exiled, in comes Erase for Ajani's Presence. Stubborn Denial and Swan Song can stop Jeskai Tempos burn, Glare Of Heresy is for dealing with scary Abzan guys (would it be a good thing to put in against Jeskai as well?), and Lagonna-Band Trailblazer makes a solid early presence against aggro. Ordeal Of Heliod can keep me alive in a race, and Singing Bell Strikes deals with threats early (and is reduced by Hero Of Iroas!)
I'm just wondering if you think this looks fairly balanced, and if you think there's anything I should change. I've been considering Akroan Skyguard for a while now as well, and I would probably take out x2 Stratus Walk if I added a pair of him in.
You can definitely play this deck competitively and I hope everyone in this thread that wants to does. Personally I think the deck is too fragile to become a Tier 1 deck but by all means go out and prove me wrong. Most of the lists that are on here are pretty good so go out and use them!
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Legacy UBReanimatorBU Commander/EDH WUBrago, King EternalUW GFreyalise, Llanowar's FuryG
I thought about that myself, the main problem that I saw with it is: It's more expensive, so if it's your only evasion enchantment and you need to hold onto one or two mana to protect your creature after you cast, you won't be able to play it early and it will slow you down. The one white cost also makes it more difficult in that regard (you can play Stratus Walk with only blue mana while holding onto your white mana for protection).
But if you can get over those downsides, it would be a great card to draw later on if you hit your land drops. Heroic trigger every turn for WU1, and without using a card for it!
Harder to cast, and Stratus Walk gives you a card when you play it as well. Ephara's Enlightenment seems like it'd be pretty tricky to cast in a hurry. Then again, Enlightenment's buff is permanent, can still block ground creatures and each time someone new enters the field they can get the buff if you don't mind the current creature losing flying.
Interesting combo potential with Tethmos High Priest. In fact, infinite combo potential if you have the mana. Hero of Iroas on the field would reduce this to UW cost too.
Pilgrim can tutor for the best aura in the situation I'm facing. Still unsure about Spectra Ward, but I'll give it a try. Protects against any removal I may face and pumps at the same time.
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"De potentia juvenis somniabat, nunc de Mundo somniat..."
At first I thought, 'Spectra Ward with 20 lands? Hah'. But Pilgrim will let you fetch it, while Hero of Iroas would reduce the cost. Speaking of, why no Hero of Iroas, especially with that pricey Spectra Ward?
2cmc is too crowded, and the other dudes proved to be more valuable (scrying, lifelink or masspump are far more valuable than cost reducing that only affect 6 cards in my deck).
EDIT: Still unsure if I want to run Ward over say Battle Mastery. The first provides resiliency vs removal, while the latter is faster.
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"De potentia juvenis somniabat, nunc de Mundo somniat..."
The one reason I'd consider at least a few Hero of Iroas in your decklist is your only-20 land count. You'll be squeezed for mana; imagine you have a blue and two white lands out, two creatures out and one's an Iroas. Suddenly you can put an Ordeal of Thassa on one and still cast both of the Gods Willing in your hand in case protection is needed for your guys. But I also see your point in that the other creatures have more direct effects; my concern is, with limited lands, every mana counts.
It's not dead yet, I was planning on posting my Saturday results in about 24 hours once I'd played my LGS with this deck. Hopefully someone's taken this deck to a FNM and given it a good showing.
Giving Heliod's Pilgrim precedence over Fabled Hero to get more reliable Aura fetching. If I don't need the auras I'll just keep the Pilgrim in my hand. Sideboard plan is to replace Ajani's Presence with Feat of Resistance if there are more exiling effects than direct damage/destruction. Ordeal of Heliod is for getting ahead of tempo races, and the extra Suspension Fields are good against Siege Rhinos and green fatties. Singing Bell Strike is also great against creature-based opponents.
I finally collected most of the cards I need for my deck! Looking forward to playing it against other standard decks on Thursday. I just played 2 matches of 2/3 with my roommate, and won both, playing against a cat/equipment deck and a red/white battalion deck. Both matches were decided with a tiebreaker. I tried playing around with the sideboard a bit and found Disdainful Stroke to be the most valuable card in both matches (except for the game where I stole his Brimaz, and then his Ajani, two turns in a row with Daxos). The ability to be able to respond to virtually any threat with Disdainful Stroke was huge. In the early game, if they're playing something really dangerous, they probably don't have the extra mana to counter it. Later in the game, you've probably buffed up your heroic creatures to a 4 and its a one cost counter spell. Battlewise Hoplite + Stratus Walk is one of my favourite combos so far, with the scry and draw all in one, as well as giving a +1/+1 and flying. Seeker of the Way also turned out to be much stronger than I expected, being a pretty solid attacker that benefits from heroic creatures being pumped. Neither of the decks I played against had very much removal, but I'm sure standard format will have a lot more.
So, there's my thoughts on my first games with this deck, playing casually. I'm very much a noob, I still haven't played a standard tournament, only casual and draft. This is the 4th deck I've made, with the others being: Zuberas/Legendary Spirits, Giant tribal, and some sort of Outlast *****mix.
Edited deck, dropped to 20 land and took out all the spells above 3 to accommodate that. Added in 4 Defiant Strikes to trigger buffs and cycle through my deck, since it felt a little slow if I didn't draw any Ordeals. Changed the creatures around a little bit, and generally focused on a bit more life gain and heroic triggers.
I built this deck and have been playing it alongside Abzan for a little while now. I actually think it's very well positioned in the metagame right now and I wouldn't be shocked to see it win a GP at some point.
Nothing in this version costs more than 2 mana, which allows for fewer lands and higher threat density. .
I like your deck and your explanation. But I count 62 cards in your mainboard. Is that supposed to be the case? Based on your statement that it could go with 19 lands, I'm assuming two lands can go?
Saturday battle report using the deck I posted at the top of this page.
Match 1 vs Jeskai: won 2-0. He was concentrating on trying to get the Ascendancy combo and I only ever saw two creatures in two matches. One of them was Mantis Rider but I had an unblockable Battlewise which grew bigger and just won. I managed to counter 95% of the Jeskai Charms and removal that was sent at my creatures, and when I didn't have protection I had a backup creature in hand. Pretty much a perfect match for me.
Match 2 against Naya walkers: lost 2-1. First game had Elspeth spawning too many soldiers, it was silly. Second game I won luckily because I managed to negate the right things. Third game I was protection-screwed, didn't find a single protection spell all game so I died quickly. I'm thinking we should switch Negate for Swan Song for better counters and we don't really care about a 2/2 flyer.
Match 3 against mono green: won 2-1. Had to sideboard in Suspension Field but apart from that it was a vanilla victory, ignoring all his creatures and swinging in with my evasives. Had to be careful of Polukranos' monstrosity ability but apart from that there's not a lot that can get rid of our stuff.
I'm wondering about what the overall opinions on Triton Tactics and Defiant Strike are. I've changed my deck around a little bit. What do you guys think would be the best of these to main board in (if you think a card should obviously be in here, I probably am already playing) 4): Triton Tactics, Defiant Strike, Ordeal of Heliod, or Stubborn Denial.
I have Swan Song and Feats of Resistance on the sideboard for extra protection, Lagonna-Band Trailblazers for extra creatures, and a few situational exile and other cards.
Not a fan of Defiant Strike at all, but I been running x3 Triton Tactics mainboard and they're great. Opponent's rarely see it coming.
I like Stratus Walk much better than Defiant Strike.
Flying over Rhinos, Polukranos, Knuckblades and being able to block Mantis Riders, Phoenix's, and Roc's is way better imo.
Have you tried Stubborn Denials or Negate? I'm thinking on running 2 of them, but I might replace them with 2 Triton Tactics considering the Tactics can protect 2 guys from cheap burn and triggers heroic, along with the nifty tapping which is evasion for the next turn as well as defense! The one drawback is that it won't counter destruction/exile, so I'm not sure if it should be on sideboard or mainboard, as I haven't played Standard format much.
I like what he is doing here. I have been tempted to put all 8 ordeals in, they are just so good even if the white one didn't gain you any life. 15 creatures is a bit on the low side, however, for my liking.
I am interested by his choice to go feat of resistance over ajani's presence. I guess its a choice to be better against banishing light or suspension field or something that doesn't necessarily say "destroy" or destroys your creature with damage. (EDIT: Thinking about it, there are a lot of exile effects like Abzan charm, too, and glare, etc.)
I tried out this build at my FNM this week and went 3-1-1 with a draw that was going my direction but went to time and I couldn't finish him after an End Hostilities wiped the board.
Game One: Took the field with a Battlefield Hoplite, protected him until he became a 7/7 and was swinging unblocked, win.
Game Two: Mulligan to six, play a hand with one creature, creature dies when I could of waited and played AND protected, didn't draw another creature in time, 3 Siege Rhinos later...
Game Three: An even game, had creatures out, no protections, player resolved Sorin with defenders, game was over after that. He ended up at something like 35 life :/
Second Match - BG/r monsters? (1-1-1, draw)
Game One: I had a few threats, he removed them, ended up losing game one to eventual dragons.
Game Two: Protected creatures, sideboarded singing bell strike, put one on a mana dork when player kept a low land hand, smashed into him with Battlefield after Daxos was taken out, won.
Game Three: Had him at 7 life, went to time, Turn 0 End Hostilities, couldn't get enough damage out in time to finish off.
Third Match - RDW(2-1)
Game One: I got overwhelmed, completely, by what seemed like a nut draw and too much damage to keep up. This is a really difficult match for this deck, I think and one of the main reasons I have 2 Captains sideboard.
Game Two: Mulligan to six. I played all my creatures, removed defiant strikes, placed in singing bell strikes and lifegain, ended up stalling him out with creatures that were bigger than his and protected, won.
Game Three: Mulligan to five, played turn one hoplite, turn two battlefield, turn three preeminent, turn four swing into Daxos with protection, exile lightning bolt, kill his other creature and just win from there.
Match Four: Player dropped :/
Match Five: UGr something, forgot(2-1)
Game One: Battlefield Hoplite becoming 5/5 on turn 3 with protection, couldn't come back form it, win.
Game Two: Counterspells, ect, stall a mulligan to six into not enough creatures to come back from removal/counter.
Game Three: Go all in on a seven card, hoplite hand with 3 protection spells. It pays off, protecting and playing safe while swinging in with double Aqueous and scrying more protection/cards needed to keep him alive all the way until getting to become an 7/9, win.
Basically, this deck looks to be pretty good and fun! Nobody seems prepared for it, or sideboarding for it. We are subject to being able to be targeted for removal and getting our creatures kicked out(or killed as an aura comes down). The best bet is to play a creature late, and protect it, than getting it out on turns where you might be tapped out and unable to do anything to said creature unless you have no protections, but if you do? Hold 'em, protect 'em, keep protecting them.
We do really well against all the midrange decks, but Sorin + Lifegain, and anything else like that really does stall out winning. I want more Ordeal of Heliod and I am probably going to mainboard or at least have 3 of in sideboard since the 10 life can sometimes just win the game and give us just enough to keep going. An example is when the Abzan player had 2x siege Rhinos, and taking 8 would of killed me so I had to keep blockers back, he played Sorin next turn, and those Rhinos were suddenly gaining tons of life. If maybe I had a Heliod, and I could of attacked gained 10, and brought him down to a threatened level and been able to attack his Sorin instead of blocking, ect, I would of been good to go.
RDW is a tough match, it is so quick if they don't get stalled out somehow, it is difficult. I took the captains for that reason, being able to have a First Strike 2/2 on board with possible protection helps deliver death to their threats AND get more creatures out for free. A play I did in testing consisted of a Captain swing into Battlefield, then main phase play hoplite/battlefield. This sort of play really helps when trying to kill RDW as most of the time they won't be blocking those 2/2s and potentially losing their win condition damage from creatures, but that main phase play leaves you with blockers.
I will be trying it again here soon and modifying/acquiring cards as I go along!
Singing Bell Strike huh? I'll have to try that.
I've been siding in 2 Curse of the Swine to deal with Stormbreath. They're good against Gods too but I also run 2 Erase in side. I also used to use Curse against Blood Barons before rotation and have just left them in ever since. I admit I don't bring them in much anymore though.
For taking care of mana dorks & aggro beaters, (particularily Rabblemaster and Courser), I've been siding in 2 Last Breath, which I'm finding I want more of.
And yes, all the Ordeals are great. I run 4 Thassa and 3 Heliod with a 4th Heliod in side.
Also try Lagonna-Band Trailblazer over Battlewise Hoplite. I switched and have been happy. The 4 toughness dodges most burns, walls aggro beaters, and puts you one heroic trigger away from walling Rhinos and Polukranos, & very quickly you are able to wall Knuckleblades and Sagu Mauler.
I'm not really interested in walling anything, to be honest. I can see the appeal of lagonna otherwise, but I am not planning on doing any blocking with UW. I am looking to get BIG or get aqueous and race with ordeals.
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Do you think it's possible to make this tier1/2? I'd like this to be competitive, since it's such a fun deck to play...
Although I can agree the deck lacks the raw consistency of a good stuff deck like Abzan that just jams every pushed spell in it's colors, that is just an oversimplified look at the tiers. When 50% of players at a tournament play abzan and 30% play jeskai, no matter how you look at it they are most likely to show in the top 16. Now the low amount of U/W Heroic players at any given event could be interpreted as not many people thinking the deck is very good or maybe they are just used to getting together whatever decks top 8 a pro tour and play that.
In my personal opinion the deck could use some tweaks to make it even better and possibly even run some abzan and jeskai hate mainboard to skew our already decent match ups against both. Right not I feel that the deck is 50/50 against abzan, 40/60 against jeskai, and 70/30 against Green strategies. That is coming from my own personal testing but from that I have to think that if I can tweak some things to bring up the jeskai matchup a bit the deck could be a real contender at a bigger tournament if more that 1-2 players sleeved it up for said tournament.
TL;DR the deck is under the radar or just unpopular right now which makes players underestimate it.
Having played the deck for a bit, I think there are a few things holding it back. It doesn't match up well against decks that go horizontal, flooding the board with 1/1s and swarming you. The deck lacks answers to Rabblemaster and the Rabble Red deck gives it fits, not to mention Jeskai or Mardu tokens decks. Depending on how Jeskai Tempo is built, they can sometimes just match up well against your guys with Magma Spray/Jet, Lightning Strike, and Stoke. In games on the draw, you end up just getting out-tempoed by them, always being a turn to late, having to hold creatures in hand, till you have an extra mana with which to protect the creature with. At that point, you might have already been overrun by Mantis Rider. Jeskai's removal is more efficient than Abzan's, which makes it a tough matchup for UW Heroic. You can blow Abzan out in games in which you have a Favored Hoplite and two or three protection spells. Ordeal of Thassa, Aqueous Form, and the cantrips can help you find those. A God's Willing countering a Hero's Downfall and gaining the tempo of them wasting a turn spending all their mana on Downfall is actually a great play. And in that way, the Abzan matchup is the most dependent on variance, being a blowout at times and being miserable others, i.e., the times when you simply brick on drawing protection spells.
tl;dr Rabblemaster is a problem, Jeskai tempo just out-tempos your gameplan if you're not on the play, and the Abzan(/Mardu probably too) matchup is too draw dependent.
I think the deck is good, but it simply can't be considered tier 1 till it puts up results. And people know it exists. The RW variant top 16ed the pro tour. And the UW has won a little too, sure, at States and what not, maybe that warrants christening it tier 2, but I'm not convinced at the deck's power. It seems a lot like hexproof builds from last season, being able to put up good numbers when the operator is running hot, but otherwise it plays out like garbage.
Could you take a look at my deck list and sideboard and let me know what you think?
7x Island
9x Plains
4x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Flooded Strand
Creatures (16)
4x Battlewise Hoplite
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
4x Favored Hoplite
4x Hero of Iroas
2x Seeker of the Way
4x Aqueous Form
4x Ordeal of Thassa
4x Stratus Walk
1x Battle Mastery
Instants (10)
2x Feat of Resistance
4x Ajani's Presence
4x Gods Willing
2x Erase
2x Ordeal of Heliod
2x Singing Bell Strike
2x Glare Of Heresy
2x Swan Song
2x Stubborn Denial
3x Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
I'm considering swapping in a Fabled Hero for one Eidolon, but that leaves me with a few one of's and I think I might want to avoid that. I don't know if my creatures are stacked a bit heavy on 2, with it basically being 4 1-cost and 10 2-cost with 2 enchantments on top of that. I would get rid of both Eidolons and go with Fabled Heroes, but I don't like how they only get out on turn 3, or even later if you went to protect them. Meanwhile, the Eidolon's bestow cost can be reduced with Hero Of Iroas, and it has it's other upsides (becomes a creature after it's taken off, or can be played as a creature), but I'm just not sure. I'm also considering adding in Daxos of Meletia. He doesn't get Heroic bonuses, but he seems like an all-around fun guy with his own evasion. At the very least, he would be a target for removal. I was thinking +2 Daxos -1 Eidolon -1 Stratus Walk.
I went pretty heavy with protection/anti-removal I think, and the sideboard has some options to switch around with, adding more if needed. If my guys are getting exiled, in comes Erase for Ajani's Presence. Stubborn Denial and Swan Song can stop Jeskai Tempos burn, Glare Of Heresy is for dealing with scary Abzan guys (would it be a good thing to put in against Jeskai as well?), and Lagonna-Band Trailblazer makes a solid early presence against aggro. Ordeal Of Heliod can keep me alive in a race, and Singing Bell Strikes deals with threats early (and is reduced by Hero Of Iroas!)
I'm just wondering if you think this looks fairly balanced, and if you think there's anything I should change. I've been considering Akroan Skyguard for a while now as well, and I would probably take out x2 Stratus Walk if I added a pair of him in.
Thanks for reading.
UBReanimatorBU
Commander/EDH
WUBrago, King EternalUW
GFreyalise, Llanowar's FuryG
But if you can get over those downsides, it would be a great card to draw later on if you hit your land drops. Heroic trigger every turn for WU1, and without using a card for it!
Interesting combo potential with Tethmos High Priest. In fact, infinite combo potential if you have the mana. Hero of Iroas on the field would reduce this to UW cost too.
10 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
Creatures (20)
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Phalanx Leader
2 Fabled Hero
2 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Aqueous Form
4 Gods Willing
4 Defiant Strike
2 Mortal Obstinacy
3 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Stratus Walk
1 Spectra Ward
4 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
1 Erase
3 Feat of Resistance
3 Ephemeral Shield
2 Glare of Heresy
Pilgrim can tutor for the best aura in the situation I'm facing. Still unsure about Spectra Ward, but I'll give it a try. Protects against any removal I may face and pumps at the same time.
EDIT: Still unsure if I want to run Ward over say Battle Mastery. The first provides resiliency vs removal, while the latter is faster.
edit: Here's the list I'm planning on using:
2 Heliod's Pilgrim
2 Hero of Iroas
3 Seeker of the Way
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
3 Favored Hoplite
Spells
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Gods Willing
2 Negate
1 Suspension Field
4 Aqueous Form
2 Battle Mastery
2 Stratus Walk
4 Ordeal of Thassa
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
9 Plains
4 Feat of Resistance
2 Fabled Hero
2 Ordeal of Heliod
3 Singing Bell Strike
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Suspension Field
Giving Heliod's Pilgrim precedence over Fabled Hero to get more reliable Aura fetching. If I don't need the auras I'll just keep the Pilgrim in my hand. Sideboard plan is to replace Ajani's Presence with Feat of Resistance if there are more exiling effects than direct damage/destruction. Ordeal of Heliod is for getting ahead of tempo races, and the extra Suspension Fields are good against Siege Rhinos and green fatties. Singing Bell Strike is also great against creature-based opponents.
So, there's my thoughts on my first games with this deck, playing casually. I'm very much a noob, I still haven't played a standard tournament, only casual and draft. This is the 4th deck I've made, with the others being: Zuberas/Legendary Spirits, Giant tribal, and some sort of Outlast *****mix.
EDITed List:
5x Island
10x Plains
3x Tranquil Cove
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Flooded Strand
Creatures (16)
4x Battlewise Hoplite
2x Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
4x Favored Hoplite
2x Hero of Iroas
4x Seeker of the Way
4x Aqueous Form
4x Ordeal of Thassa
2x Stratus Walk
2x Ordeal of Heliod
Instants (12)
4x Defiant Strike
4x Ajani's Presence
4x Gods Willing
2x Erase
2x Ordeal of Heliod
2x Glare Of Heresy
1x Swan Song
4x Stubborn Denial
4x Feat of Resistance
Edited deck, dropped to 20 land and took out all the spells above 3 to accommodate that. Added in 4 Defiant Strikes to trigger buffs and cycle through my deck, since it felt a little slow if I didn't draw any Ordeals. Changed the creatures around a little bit, and generally focused on a bit more life gain and heroic triggers.
I like your deck and your explanation. But I count 62 cards in your mainboard. Is that supposed to be the case? Based on your statement that it could go with 19 lands, I'm assuming two lands can go?
Merfolk Wizards AKA "Wizards of the Coast"
Match 1 vs Jeskai: won 2-0. He was concentrating on trying to get the Ascendancy combo and I only ever saw two creatures in two matches. One of them was Mantis Rider but I had an unblockable Battlewise which grew bigger and just won. I managed to counter 95% of the Jeskai Charms and removal that was sent at my creatures, and when I didn't have protection I had a backup creature in hand. Pretty much a perfect match for me.
Match 2 against Naya walkers: lost 2-1. First game had Elspeth spawning too many soldiers, it was silly. Second game I won luckily because I managed to negate the right things. Third game I was protection-screwed, didn't find a single protection spell all game so I died quickly. I'm thinking we should switch Negate for Swan Song for better counters and we don't really care about a 2/2 flyer.
Match 3 against mono green: won 2-1. Had to sideboard in Suspension Field but apart from that it was a vanilla victory, ignoring all his creatures and swinging in with my evasives. Had to be careful of Polukranos' monstrosity ability but apart from that there's not a lot that can get rid of our stuff.
I have Swan Song and Feats of Resistance on the sideboard for extra protection, Lagonna-Band Trailblazers for extra creatures, and a few situational exile and other cards.
I like Stratus Walk much better than Defiant Strike.
Flying over Rhinos, Polukranos, Knuckblades and being able to block Mantis Riders, Phoenix's, and Roc's is way better imo.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsto14/deck-tech-uw-heroic-jan-van-der-vegt-2014-10-26
I like what he is doing here. I have been tempted to put all 8 ordeals in, they are just so good even if the white one didn't gain you any life. 15 creatures is a bit on the low side, however, for my liking.
I am interested by his choice to go feat of resistance over ajani's presence. I guess its a choice to be better against banishing light or suspension field or something that doesn't necessarily say "destroy" or destroys your creature with damage. (EDIT: Thinking about it, there are a lot of exile effects like Abzan charm, too, and glare, etc.)
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Daxos of Meletis
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Hero of Iroas
2 Preeminent Captain
3 Favored Hoplite
2 Ajani's Presence
4 God's Willing
4 Defiant Strike
2 Feat of Resistance
Enchantments
4 Aqueous Form
4 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Stratus Walk
1 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Hopeful Eidolon
2 Preeminent Captain
4 Singing Bell Strike
4 Stubborn Denial
2 Suspension Field
First match was against Abzan(1-2 loss)
Game One: Took the field with a Battlefield Hoplite, protected him until he became a 7/7 and was swinging unblocked, win.
Game Two: Mulligan to six, play a hand with one creature, creature dies when I could of waited and played AND protected, didn't draw another creature in time, 3 Siege Rhinos later...
Game Three: An even game, had creatures out, no protections, player resolved Sorin with defenders, game was over after that. He ended up at something like 35 life :/
Second Match - BG/r monsters? (1-1-1, draw)
Game One: I had a few threats, he removed them, ended up losing game one to eventual dragons.
Game Two: Protected creatures, sideboarded singing bell strike, put one on a mana dork when player kept a low land hand, smashed into him with Battlefield after Daxos was taken out, won.
Game Three: Had him at 7 life, went to time, Turn 0 End Hostilities, couldn't get enough damage out in time to finish off.
Third Match - RDW(2-1)
Game One: I got overwhelmed, completely, by what seemed like a nut draw and too much damage to keep up. This is a really difficult match for this deck, I think and one of the main reasons I have 2 Captains sideboard.
Game Two: Mulligan to six. I played all my creatures, removed defiant strikes, placed in singing bell strikes and lifegain, ended up stalling him out with creatures that were bigger than his and protected, won.
Game Three: Mulligan to five, played turn one hoplite, turn two battlefield, turn three preeminent, turn four swing into Daxos with protection, exile lightning bolt, kill his other creature and just win from there.
Match Four: Player dropped :/
Match Five: UGr something, forgot(2-1)
Game One: Battlefield Hoplite becoming 5/5 on turn 3 with protection, couldn't come back form it, win.
Game Two: Counterspells, ect, stall a mulligan to six into not enough creatures to come back from removal/counter.
Game Three: Go all in on a seven card, hoplite hand with 3 protection spells. It pays off, protecting and playing safe while swinging in with double Aqueous and scrying more protection/cards needed to keep him alive all the way until getting to become an 7/9, win.
Basically, this deck looks to be pretty good and fun! Nobody seems prepared for it, or sideboarding for it. We are subject to being able to be targeted for removal and getting our creatures kicked out(or killed as an aura comes down). The best bet is to play a creature late, and protect it, than getting it out on turns where you might be tapped out and unable to do anything to said creature unless you have no protections, but if you do? Hold 'em, protect 'em, keep protecting them.
We do really well against all the midrange decks, but Sorin + Lifegain, and anything else like that really does stall out winning. I want more Ordeal of Heliod and I am probably going to mainboard or at least have 3 of in sideboard since the 10 life can sometimes just win the game and give us just enough to keep going. An example is when the Abzan player had 2x siege Rhinos, and taking 8 would of killed me so I had to keep blockers back, he played Sorin next turn, and those Rhinos were suddenly gaining tons of life. If maybe I had a Heliod, and I could of attacked gained 10, and brought him down to a threatened level and been able to attack his Sorin instead of blocking, ect, I would of been good to go.
RDW is a tough match, it is so quick if they don't get stalled out somehow, it is difficult. I took the captains for that reason, being able to have a First Strike 2/2 on board with possible protection helps deliver death to their threats AND get more creatures out for free. A play I did in testing consisted of a Captain swing into Battlefield, then main phase play hoplite/battlefield. This sort of play really helps when trying to kill RDW as most of the time they won't be blocking those 2/2s and potentially losing their win condition damage from creatures, but that main phase play leaves you with blockers.
I will be trying it again here soon and modifying/acquiring cards as I go along!
I've been siding in 2 Curse of the Swine to deal with Stormbreath. They're good against Gods too but I also run 2 Erase in side. I also used to use Curse against Blood Barons before rotation and have just left them in ever since. I admit I don't bring them in much anymore though.
For taking care of mana dorks & aggro beaters, (particularily Rabblemaster and Courser), I've been siding in 2 Last Breath, which I'm finding I want more of.
And yes, all the Ordeals are great. I run 4 Thassa and 3 Heliod with a 4th Heliod in side.
Also try Lagonna-Band Trailblazer over Battlewise Hoplite. I switched and have been happy. The 4 toughness dodges most burns, walls aggro beaters, and puts you one heroic trigger away from walling Rhinos and Polukranos, & very quickly you are able to wall Knuckleblades and Sagu Mauler.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW