Bow of Nylea was such an all-star performer: every time I dropped Goblin Rabblemaster and they responded with Courser of Kruphix, and then I followed up with Bow before attacking, they won't do anything against the tokens... you can push 2-3-4+ damage easily, and dedicate the rest of your creatures to defense (don't forget the bow's lifegain and +1/+1 counter ability).
Do you think maybe playing a 1 of Noble Quarry along with Bow for the deathtouch lure effect might be worth considering? I suppose any green deck could do it, but it could be a back-breaker in a midrange mirror.[/quote]
I think that you're fine without it. As it stands, you can attack with Polukranos so it gains deathtouch, and then monstrous for 2-3 and ping opposing creatures for one. Chances are the Polukranos will die, but so will 2-3 opposing creatures.
Roar of Challenge would accomplish a similar effect with Bow in play, assuming the creature wasn't immediately hit with a downfall or murderous cut.
Ascendancy as a 4-of because I want to see it every single game. Once its on the field everything else starts to come together, especially the Angels, who can be tricky to cast. Once all your creatures have haste you can just hold on to a mana dork in hand, cast it, and since it has haste you'd be able to tap it for mana and cast the Angel without the need for excess lands.
As you can tell, I want as much card advantage as possible, which is why I'm playing Nessian Game Warden, Courser of Kruphix and Soul of Ravnica. Prophet of Kruphix gives you the mana to use all the extra cards.
Knuckleblade and Soul of Ravnica both are mana sinks for the late game, and Courser of Kruphix guarantees I hit the land drops needed for both.
I've seen plenty of Sagu Mauler as sideboard material...i'm not really sure when he comes in...can anyone explains to me..
also i need help to build my board...i'm 2 cards short and not sure what to put in...
Nylea's Discipline/Anger of the Gods - against burn and fast agros
Disdainful Stroke/Stubborn Denial - against control
Reclamation Sage - enchantment hate
I got fairly lucky in my match-ups and didn't play against any heavy control or Abzan Midrange, but regardless the deck performed well.
This deck basically came together as a catch all against aggro and some flying threats by running 4 Anger of the Gods as an almost one sided board wipe. (and nice against delve/sultai dredge.) Most of my creatures have 4 or more toughness, so they dodge anger effectively, and the ones that don't (mana dorks and Hornet Nest) either already did their job by the time I anger, or its more important to blow out rabblemaster or Mantis Rider. Hornet Nest is an all star. Your opponent simply can't attack into it. Anger gives you 3 1/1 flying deathtouch creatures that shut down the sky and can push even more damage through. I only had the one, and I think I may go up to 3 or 4. Bow of Nylea works really well with Hornet Nest and Anger of the Gods as you can use the pump to keep the nest (or a mana dork given enough time) alive through an anger for even more value. Yes, it's a ponderous few turn line of play, but it has come up. Hornet Nest makes me want to run all kinds of silly cheap burn so I can ping my own stuff. Seems gimmicky but it's not even bad.
As soon as Temur Charm was spoiled I knew I was playing Temur. It may be the "worst" charm of the bunch, but it is really solid regardless in this build. Make something big (or anything) fight your nest to force them to give you deathtouchers. At. Instant. Speed. Mode 2 (mana leak) is probably the most useful mode, and you don't want to do either of the others unless they're tapped out. (Or you want to bait out a response that you can Denial or Swan Song.) The final mode wins the game. Period. Even if they have a couple blockers after you use it (by responding with a pump or something) you should have enough of a board that they can't block enough to survive.
Stubborn Denial and Swan Song are what keep people from blowing me out with Deflecting Palm or Murderous Cut (or Planeswalkers in the case of denial.) Sometimes I wish I had the flexibility to counter creatures, but for one mana what do you expect. Not to mention the 3 maindeck mana-leaks that hit everything. Swan Song is pretty good, and easy enough to sideboard.
Kiora is really good against flying and big Nighthowler pumped guys, but I'm not sure. Really good in some match-ups and never really bad, unless you have to tap out for her. Getting her early isn't usually the way to go unless you get a
Xenagos, God of Revels is solid. He turns on fairly easily, and turns a Rattleclaw Mystic into a threat. I'm not sure I'd run more than one though. Keranos, God of Storms on the other hand is absolutely bonkers strong. Resolve him anytime earlier than Turn 5 and you're probably going to win. Him plus the bow keeps the skies clear pretty well, Scry-lands help keep him doing what you need, and in the above build you can sit back in control mode and just keep mana up so that a hasty threat doesn't kill you out of nowhere. (Sarkhan mainly.)
I immediately bought another after he, xenagos, a Rattleclaw, and a fistful of stubborn denials and Temur charms won me game 3 of the final round.
People are pretty scared of Savage Knuckleblade and for good reason. In practice though, he's usually turn 3 or 4 without haste. My mana base needs a bit of work still but I didn't drop any games to being short on mana/colour fixing. Double red was an issue though. (Which is bad when Anger is one of the important parts of the deck.)
Polukranos is sort of similar to Savage Knuckleblade, really scary for good reason. If he sticks around they're probably going to lose. Another reason for all the one mana counters and the ramp. Interacts well with Bow of Nylea. (Just like Temur Charm. Attack with creature, it has deathtouch from the bow, Temur charm and kill anything you can target.)
Sagu Mauler is really hard for people to deal with. It's pretty much just the right cost for what it does and with Xenagos it's probably game over.
Also works well with the bow.
Side is a bit weird, but Aetherspouts usually comes in. I'm not happy about it, but until I have a bit more solid flying defense (more nests) it buys me time or gives me the chance to swing back and kill them.
There are a few reasons for why these aren't main or side. Lots of them are because of the 4x main deck Anger of the Gods, or because they don't turn "on" Ferocious. Disdainful Stroke's limitation of cmc 4 or greater has burned me before. I'd rather be able to counter a counterspell or cheap removal to keep my threats on board.
Gen Hydra I think lives better in a closer to mono G build. I DON'T think you need a lot of mana to make him great. I think you need to know what the top card of your deck is, and Nykthos. So worst case you cast him for 4 (x2) and grab a Cayatid and have and additional 3 devotion (plus what was on board) to use next turn. Or be going hard on Ascendancy or Eidolon of Blossoms and enchantment creatures. Or Xenagos, God of Revels. Genesis Hydra is one of my favorite cards, I'm just not sure he's good in my current list.
My build right now just runs too many things it can't grab.
Prog Sphinx should probably be in there, but it doesn't turn on ferocious and is a bit tough to cast. Still I could probably switch a few things and have it be really good. It's tough to find room though.
What the deck struggles against most is probably the Whip of Erabos and Flyinhg. All that lifelink and throwing things at me is bad news. That's why there's some enchantment hate and grave hate in the side.
I think with some tweaks we'll see if this particular Temur build is gimmicky or the real deal.
Sagu Mauler comes into play against jenskai burn and Abzan/Mardu control. It's a beater that can attack through the rhino and dodges burn/ Heros downfall.
Simply put, it's a very difficult creature for opposing decks to deal with if it sticks. If it only cost 1 less, you would see a playset of them in every deck that could run them. As its stands, at 6 mana it's great for sideboard options when you're facing a lot of burn/ direct removal.
I don't think Illusion is where we want to be in this deck... we don't have more reliable ways to cast him early when we're only running dorks and spells that cost 3+ mana. If your list splashes cheap burn like Magma Spray or something then it would be better, but as it stands, Angel is just better on those type of decks, and not ours. We need beefy creatures, yes, but we need them soon, and we need them without any possibility of them getting stuck in our hand by virtue of something else other than mana issues.
Mauler is in a great position right now because of all the removal, and he pushes damage through most other creatures in the format. If you're playing Rattleclaw it gives you a way to play morph mind games, but that gets in the way of running Anger mainboard... it's ultimately up to each individual person if it suits their gameplay, though.
And last thing I have to say... Stormbreath Dragon is in an incredible position right now. Not playing him is a waste, in my opinion. I don't want to get into budget issues, though, but he fits every shell and is super resistant to anything that is not Kiora, Progsphinx or Cut / Downfall, among other few things that can actually touch him.
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i got the point on Sagu, i'll run two or even 3 of them on my board...game two against abzan, jeskai and others i'll trade him with Polukranos...smart choice?
As you can tell, I want as much card advantage as possible, which is why I'm playing Nessian Game Warden, Courser of Kruphix and Soul of Ravnica. Prophet of Kruphix gives you the mana to use all the extra cards.
Yay for more Prophet. You must tell me how this deck does.
I'm really loving the monstrous Polukranos and bow of nylea interaction. I hadn't even thought of that combo before but it's definitely a phenomenal form of board control against aggro strategies.
As far as who to side out for Sagu, I generally split my creatures and remove 2 sarkhan (of 3) and 1 stormbreaths (of 4). In a mantis rider/ burn setup sarkhan is especially weak, he's not a very self defensive planes walker. Against Abzan I'll just side all 3 Sarkhan for Sagu. The main reason I'll not touch my polukranos is the CMC of 4 vs 6, Sagu mauler doesn't come down turn three unless you morph cast a Rattleclaw turn 2... But you can drop polukranos turn 3 all day long in this deck.
My favorite progression of play is:
T1: land, elvish mystic
T2: land, courser of kruphix
T3: land, either savage knuckleblade or polukranos depending on my land situation.
How do people feel about Plummet? It deals with Mantis Rider, Ensouled Thopters, Stormbreaths in the mirror, and butcher of the horde.
I've actually been thinking about plummet, and I think it's almost better to run Turn to Frog depending on your meta. Plummet doesn't hit Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. Turn to Frog hits everything that isn't enchanted/buffed with counters.
Maybe a bit of both? Hopefully an untapped Courser of Kruphix or something will be able to eat the attacking 1/1, or on your turn you can swing back and kill sarkhan.
One thing I notice about Temur Midrange is that, we are dealing quite a lot of damage to ourselves from painlands and fetches, lack of defensive play and very much vulnerable to life gain cards like Siege Rhino, Butcher of the Horde combo with Bloodsoaked Champion, and Seeker of the Way.
One thing I notice about Temur Midrange is that, we are dealing quite a lot of damage to ourselves from painlands and fetches, lack of defensive play and very much vulnerable to life gain cards like Siege Rhino, Butcher of the Horde combo with Bloodsoaked Champion, and Seeker of the Way.
This was half the reason why I considered adding Bow of Nylea: if we can push a stalemate and topdeck mode, we can gain a ton of life, but if life loss really becomes an issue, we still have Feed the Clan, which I believe is stronger than Nylea's Disciple as we can rely on the gain without relying on having permanents in play.
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My last idea with Twinflame/Hour of Need absolutely was terrible. So many things have to be going right. I'd play out games and sometimes swing back but I wasn't guarenteeing to keep steady pressure on my opponent. I'm back to my base devotion list. It's the only one that has been doing it for me. Given less green decks in the opposition I've moved some stuff around. But the problem is most decks that I've moved away from this sort of plan aren't intrinsically powerful enough. If you need to outpower a bunch of walkers and endless removal you need to be able to play spells that create two relevant permanents and you need to consistently play threats that trump your opponents. I've been trying Stormbreath again. I think the card is pretty weak in this sort of list but protection white seems just relevant enough. It puts less pressure on your trample enablers and gives you a way to jump ahead T3 on double dork draws.
Still not completely sure about Stubborn Denial. I'm looking for something versatile enough. I want to create tempo by protecting my threats but it's hard cause you curve so tightly. Sometimes it's dead. Sometimes it counters Elspeth. Thoughtseize decks generally don't give you that sort of room, but it's a fine game 1 spell I think. Disdainful Stroke isn't right. And Temur Charm is too expensive. The deck wants Spell Pierce or even Mana Leak. That isn't saying much, as any blue deck would probably want those. But the CMC is really important in this case. I could play something like Crater's Claws but even with Ferocious it's still a bit of an investment to deal with problematic things. What these decks are missing that we've had for the past few seasons is that Mortars or Bonfire or Cyclonic Rift type effect which unconditionally you can invalidate the opponents board. Even Overrun would do it. It needs to invalidate blocks and be pretty sure to remove a good chunk of the opponents board. Something like all your creatures are unblockable is probably not good enough. That's why Icy Blast isn't quite right. Something like Aetherspout can be played around and it's hard to encourage the opponents investment into attacking (especially when you present giant blockers). It's a lot more like trying to find the perfect time to cast Fog but it means keeping up 5 mana. Our big effects in this format involve expanding more onto the board. Which is why I like Genesis Hydra (not that I really like the card at all) in that it can grab other non-land permanents. But the mana investment is significant which makes the timing more awkward than I'd like, but at 6 or even 7 there isn't anything providing that sort of permanent advantage.
One thing I notice about Temur Midrange is that, we are dealing quite a lot of damage to ourselves from painlands and fetches, lack of defensive play and very much vulnerable to life gain cards like Siege Rhino, Butcher of the Horde combo with Bloodsoaked Champion, and Seeker of the Way.
Thats why Im contemplating running Feed the Clan maindeck. Its not hard for us to gain 10 life using the card and thats a huge gain for only 1G... plus its an instant so we can do it in response to lethal or a removal of our 4 power creature. Between leaving 1G/B open for Plummet or Turn to frog we can easily justify casting either depending on whats in our hand. Im even tempted to remove Lightning Strike in favor of a more defensive suite of instants.
My last idea with Twinflame/Hour of Need absolutely was terrible. So many things have to be going right. I'd play out games and sometimes swing back but I wasn't guarenteeing to keep steady pressure on my opponent. I'm back to my base devotion list. It's the only one that has been doing it for me. Given less green decks in the opposition I've moved some stuff around. But the problem is most decks that I've moved away from this sort of plan aren't intrinsically powerful enough. If you need to outpower a bunch of walkers and endless removal you need to be able to play spells that create two relevant permanents and you need to consistently play threats that trump your opponents. I've been trying Stormbreath again. I think the card is pretty weak in this sort of list but protection white seems just relevant enough. It puts less pressure on your trample enablers and gives you a way to jump ahead T3 on double dork draws.
Still not completely sure about Stubborn Denial. I'm looking for something versatile enough. I want to create tempo by protecting my threats but it's hard cause you curve so tightly. Sometimes it's dead. Sometimes it counters Elspeth. Thoughtseize decks generally don't give you that sort of room, but it's a fine game 1 spell I think. Disdainful Stroke isn't right. And Temur Charm is too expensive. The deck wants Spell Pierce or even Mana Leak. That isn't saying much, as any blue deck would probably want those. But the CMC is really important in this case. I could play something like Crater's Claws but even with Ferocious it's still a bit of an investment to deal with problematic things. What these decks are missing that we've had for the past few seasons is that Mortars or Bonfire or Cyclonic Rift type effect which unconditionally you can invalidate the opponents board. Even Overrun would do it. It needs to invalidate blocks and be pretty sure to remove a good chunk of the opponents board. Something like all your creatures are unblockable is probably not good enough. That's why Icy Blast isn't quite right. Something like Aetherspout can be played around and it's hard to encourage the opponents investment into attacking (especially when you present giant blockers). It's a lot more like trying to find the perfect time to cast Fog but it means keeping up 5 mana. Our big effects in this format involve expanding more onto the board. Which is why I like Genesis Hydra (not that I really like the card at all) in that it can grab other non-land permanents. But the mana investment is significant which makes the timing more awkward than I'd like, but at 6 or even 7 there isn't anything providing that sort of permanent advantage.
Whats wrong with Hour of need by itself, 1 or 2 of to mop up the opponent late game?
I noticed that playing a knuckblade with mana up to return him or counter spells is a thing. I was doing that last night at my LGS. Ascendency was better than I thought, Im not ready to play four, I'm playing 3 with a clever impersonator.
Going to GPLA this weekend, hope I can iron out my game plan and practice it against Jaskai and Abzan.
After my mid day testing session I am being expose to the power of Temur ascendency. I might have to go to 4 and drop the maulers and sarkhan for more stormbreath and direct damage: Lightning strike, crater's claw
So after looking for solid 4 power creatures to support a build around me strategy with Temur Ascendancy, I ran into, then realized how bad an interaction Fanatic of Xenegos has with Temur Ascendancy. That said, the tribute mechanic becomes very interesting when played alongside Temur Ascendancy, or ferocious in general.
Some of the more interesting, on color options with tribute:
And then probably my favorite: Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
- 2RR: 3/3 Flying Haste + Returns to hand on death.
(or)
- 2RR: 5/5 Flying Haste + Draw a card.
It really desync's the balance in tribute. Most players would just pay it and then use a removal on it later and deny you the card advantage that comes from not paying tribute. But all of these creatures grow into 4+ power if tribute is payed, giving you card advantage on both tribute and nontribute paths, as well as giving everyone haste so opting to pay tribute makes sorc speed removal much less powerful against it.
One things for sure. I'f I ever sleeve up a Temur Ascendancy centered deck, no way I'm not playing a full set of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix. There is no bad options with that card while ascendancy is out.
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If it looks like a bug, sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug then it's probably working as intended.
Now here's the question, since the Fanatic of Xenegos (and the other tribute creatures) have the +1/+1 counters added as part of their ETB, do they trigger Temur Ascendancy at all?
Now here's the question, since the Fanatic of Xenegos (and the other tribute creatures) have the +1/+1 counters added as part of their ETB, do they trigger Temur Ascendancy at all?
They do. Tribute is triggered as the creature is transitioning from the stack, and it would enter the battlefield with the counters already placed on the creature, this is the reason Fanatic of Xenagos interacts poorly with Temur Ascendancy is because the options become:
1RG: 3/3 Trample Haste + "+1/+1 Until end of turn."
(or) 1RG: 4/4 Trample Haste + Draw a card.
To which, nobody in there right mind would ever allow you to gain that +1/+1 permanently, and draw a card to boot. lol.
This is also the difference between Temur Ascendancy triggering and not triggering in this situation. If tribute is payed it enters as a 3/3 with a +1/+1 counter. If it's trigger is not payed, it enters the battlefield and then triggers its +1/+1 until end of turn ability, by which point Temur Ascendancy's trigger has come and gone.
Okay, so the fanatic is a special case because when tribute is not paid it reads as a 3/3 when it enters the battlefield though its considered a 4/4 with haste for a turn in regards to ferocious enabling.
Played Temu Midrange at FNM going 3-0-2 for 2nd place. Two draws were intentional with actual play being 1:1.
Sorry if the decklist isn't quite right going off memory.
The phoenix was huge against anyone relying on removal. Against a B/R deck, I morphed him 3 turns in a row after opponent hero's downfall or other targeted removal. Stubborn Denial and Temur Charm were all stars all night long. Countered so many removal spells protecting Polukranos and Knuckleblades, opponents struggled. The fight from Temur was great removal but counter was more valuable. The 4th of both in sideboard are wanting to go main.
All the tap lands made Elvish Mystic questionable since T1 is always tapped to prep for T2 Caryatid/Rattleclaw.
The stormbreath's pro-white avoided a lot of removal.
Never got to play Keranos since most other 4/5 drops were situationally better when I saw him. Villianous Wealth was an all star last week but this week the Crater's Claws were situationally better.
Coursers are always solid but you usually want to accelerate into 4 drop so only playing 3.
Knuckleblade same deal but his 4 power fuels the denial. Also nice to bounce him as blocker against deathtouch creatures. Polukranos, World Eater is a hard call. His monsterous removal is great and got enough ramp getting +5 not uncommon but fliers win the game so only playing 3.
Ran Purphurous and Chandra in sideboard.
Mono-Black aggro was challenge so Chandra probably going main to deal with 1 toughness.
So after looking for solid 4 power creatures to support a build around me strategy with Temur Ascendancy, I ran into, then realized how bad an interaction Fanatic of Xenegos has with Temur Ascendancy. That said, the tribute mechanic becomes very interesting when played alongside Temur Ascendancy, or ferocious in general.
Some of the more interesting, on color options with tribute:
And then probably my favorite: Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
- 2RR: 3/3 Flying Haste + Returns to hand on death.
(or)
- 2RR: 5/5 Flying Haste + Draw a card.
It really desync's the balance in tribute. Most players would just pay it and then use a removal on it later and deny you the card advantage that comes from not paying tribute. But all of these creatures grow into 4+ power if tribute is payed, giving you card advantage on both tribute and nontribute paths, as well as giving everyone haste so opting to pay tribute makes sorc speed removal much less powerful against it.
One things for sure. I'f I ever sleeve up a Temur Ascendancy centered deck, no way I'm not playing a full set of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix. There is no bad options with that card while ascendancy is out.
On a related note to Temur Ascendancy's interactions with tribute, it also plays very well with Master of Predicaments. With ascendancy out, Master of Predicaments becomes a 3UU 4/4 Flying Haste that draws you a card and if it connects on the turn it hits (yay haste) has a decent shot of allowing you to free cast another card!
I may try to run a list with 4x Flame-Wreathed Phoenix and 4x Master of Predicaments. If master hits, your opponent will have a hard time deciding four or less, or five or more when you have equally impressive threats in both categories. lol.
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If it looks like a bug, sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug then it's probably working as intended.
Do you think maybe playing a 1 of Noble Quarry along with Bow for the deathtouch lure effect might be worth considering? I suppose any green deck could do it, but it could be a back-breaker in a midrange mirror.[/quote]
I think that you're fine without it. As it stands, you can attack with Polukranos so it gains deathtouch, and then monstrous for 2-3 and ping opposing creatures for one. Chances are the Polukranos will die, but so will 2-3 opposing creatures.
Roar of Challenge would accomplish a similar effect with Bow in play, assuming the creature wasn't immediately hit with a downfall or murderous cut.
1 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Illusory Angel
1 Soul of Ravnica
4 Elvish mystic
2 Nessian Game Warden
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Arbor Colossus
2 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Temur Charm
2 Hour of Need
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Mystery
3 Island
1 Mountain
7 Forest
Some explanation about my card choices:
Ascendancy as a 4-of because I want to see it every single game. Once its on the field everything else starts to come together, especially the Angels, who can be tricky to cast. Once all your creatures have haste you can just hold on to a mana dork in hand, cast it, and since it has haste you'd be able to tap it for mana and cast the Angel without the need for excess lands.
As you can tell, I want as much card advantage as possible, which is why I'm playing Nessian Game Warden, Courser of Kruphix and Soul of Ravnica. Prophet of Kruphix gives you the mana to use all the extra cards.
Knuckleblade and Soul of Ravnica both are mana sinks for the late game, and Courser of Kruphix guarantees I hit the land drops needed for both.
also i need help to build my board...i'm 2 cards short and not sure what to put in...
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Stubborn Denial
3 Disdainful Stroke
3 Anger of the Gods
Nylea's Discipline/Anger of the Gods - against burn and fast agros
Disdainful Stroke/Stubborn Denial - against control
Reclamation Sage - enchantment hate
tks!
UR Twin - RIP
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Island
2 Frontier Bivouac
20 Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
1 Hornet Nest
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Sagu Mauler
4 Stubborn Denial
2 Swan Song
3 Temur Charm
4 Anger of the Gods
5 Enchantment/Planeswalker
2 Bow of Nylea
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Nissa Worldwaker
1 Burn Away
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Back to Nature
1 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Polymorphist's Jest
2 Aetherspouts
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Curse of the Swine
1 Hour of Need
I got fairly lucky in my match-ups and didn't play against any heavy control or Abzan Midrange, but regardless the deck performed well.
This deck basically came together as a catch all against aggro and some flying threats by running 4 Anger of the Gods as an almost one sided board wipe. (and nice against delve/sultai dredge.) Most of my creatures have 4 or more toughness, so they dodge anger effectively, and the ones that don't (mana dorks and Hornet Nest) either already did their job by the time I anger, or its more important to blow out rabblemaster or Mantis Rider. Hornet Nest is an all star. Your opponent simply can't attack into it. Anger gives you 3 1/1 flying deathtouch creatures that shut down the sky and can push even more damage through. I only had the one, and I think I may go up to 3 or 4.
Bow of Nylea works really well with Hornet Nest and Anger of the Gods as you can use the pump to keep the nest (or a mana dork given enough time) alive through an anger for even more value. Yes, it's a ponderous few turn line of play, but it has come up.
Hornet Nest makes me want to run all kinds of silly cheap burn so I can ping my own stuff. Seems gimmicky but it's not even bad.
As soon as Temur Charm was spoiled I knew I was playing Temur. It may be the "worst" charm of the bunch, but it is really solid regardless in this build. Make something big (or anything) fight your nest to force them to give you deathtouchers. At. Instant. Speed. Mode 2 (mana leak) is probably the most useful mode, and you don't want to do either of the others unless they're tapped out. (Or you want to bait out a response that you can Denial or Swan Song.) The final mode wins the game. Period. Even if they have a couple blockers after you use it (by responding with a pump or something) you should have enough of a board that they can't block enough to survive.
Stubborn Denial and Swan Song are what keep people from blowing me out with Deflecting Palm or Murderous Cut (or Planeswalkers in the case of denial.) Sometimes I wish I had the flexibility to counter creatures, but for one mana what do you expect. Not to mention the 3 maindeck mana-leaks that hit everything. Swan Song is pretty good, and easy enough to sideboard.
Kiora is really good against flying and big Nighthowler pumped guys, but I'm not sure. Really good in some match-ups and never really bad, unless you have to tap out for her. Getting her early isn't usually the way to go unless you get a
Xenagos, God of Revels is solid. He turns on fairly easily, and turns a Rattleclaw Mystic into a threat. I'm not sure I'd run more than one though.
Keranos, God of Storms on the other hand is absolutely bonkers strong. Resolve him anytime earlier than Turn 5 and you're probably going to win. Him plus the bow keeps the skies clear pretty well, Scry-lands help keep him doing what you need, and in the above build you can sit back in control mode and just keep mana up so that a hasty threat doesn't kill you out of nowhere. (Sarkhan mainly.)
I immediately bought another after he, xenagos, a Rattleclaw, and a fistful of stubborn denials and Temur charms won me game 3 of the final round.
People are pretty scared of Savage Knuckleblade and for good reason. In practice though, he's usually turn 3 or 4 without haste. My mana base needs a bit of work still but I didn't drop any games to being short on mana/colour fixing. Double red was an issue though. (Which is bad when Anger is one of the important parts of the deck.)
Polukranos is sort of similar to Savage Knuckleblade, really scary for good reason. If he sticks around they're probably going to lose. Another reason for all the one mana counters and the ramp. Interacts well with Bow of Nylea. (Just like Temur Charm. Attack with creature, it has deathtouch from the bow, Temur charm and kill anything you can target.)
Sagu Mauler is really hard for people to deal with. It's pretty much just the right cost for what it does and with Xenagos it's probably game over.
Also works well with the bow.
Side is a bit weird, but Aetherspouts usually comes in. I'm not happy about it, but until I have a bit more solid flying defense (more nests) it buys me time or gives me the chance to swing back and kill them.
Things I want to try.
Things I am not running that have merit.
There are a few reasons for why these aren't main or side. Lots of them are because of the 4x main deck Anger of the Gods, or because they don't turn "on" Ferocious.
Disdainful Stroke's limitation of cmc 4 or greater has burned me before. I'd rather be able to counter a counterspell or cheap removal to keep my threats on board.
Gen Hydra I think lives better in a closer to mono G build. I DON'T think you need a lot of mana to make him great. I think you need to know what the top card of your deck is, and Nykthos. So worst case you cast him for 4 (x2) and grab a Cayatid and have and additional 3 devotion (plus what was on board) to use next turn. Or be going hard on Ascendancy or Eidolon of Blossoms and enchantment creatures. Or Xenagos, God of Revels. Genesis Hydra is one of my favorite cards, I'm just not sure he's good in my current list.
My build right now just runs too many things it can't grab.
Prog Sphinx should probably be in there, but it doesn't turn on ferocious and is a bit tough to cast. Still I could probably switch a few things and have it be really good. It's tough to find room though.
What the deck struggles against most is probably the Whip of Erabos and Flyinhg. All that lifelink and throwing things at me is bad news. That's why there's some enchantment hate and grave hate in the side.
I think with some tweaks we'll see if this particular Temur build is gimmicky or the real deal.
Till then keep repping the clan,
and Bear-Punch on.
Simply put, it's a very difficult creature for opposing decks to deal with if it sticks. If it only cost 1 less, you would see a playset of them in every deck that could run them. As its stands, at 6 mana it's great for sideboard options when you're facing a lot of burn/ direct removal.
Mauler is in a great position right now because of all the removal, and he pushes damage through most other creatures in the format. If you're playing Rattleclaw it gives you a way to play morph mind games, but that gets in the way of running Anger mainboard... it's ultimately up to each individual person if it suits their gameplay, though.
And last thing I have to say... Stormbreath Dragon is in an incredible position right now. Not playing him is a waste, in my opinion. I don't want to get into budget issues, though, but he fits every shell and is super resistant to anything that is not Kiora, Progsphinx or Cut / Downfall, among other few things that can actually touch him.
Standard: N G A W Y R A
Commander: G U B Damia
i got the point on Sagu, i'll run two or even 3 of them on my board...game two against abzan, jeskai and others i'll trade him with Polukranos...smart choice?
UR Twin - RIP
Yay for more Prophet. You must tell me how this deck does.
As far as who to side out for Sagu, I generally split my creatures and remove 2 sarkhan (of 3) and 1 stormbreaths (of 4). In a mantis rider/ burn setup sarkhan is especially weak, he's not a very self defensive planes walker. Against Abzan I'll just side all 3 Sarkhan for Sagu. The main reason I'll not touch my polukranos is the CMC of 4 vs 6, Sagu mauler doesn't come down turn three unless you morph cast a Rattleclaw turn 2... But you can drop polukranos turn 3 all day long in this deck.
My favorite progression of play is:
T1: land, elvish mystic
T2: land, courser of kruphix
T3: land, either savage knuckleblade or polukranos depending on my land situation.
How do people feel about Plummet? It deals with Mantis Rider, Ensouled Thopters, Stormbreaths in the mirror, and butcher of the horde.
Plummet doesn't hit Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. Turn to Frog hits everything that isn't enchanted/buffed with counters.
Maybe a bit of both? Hopefully an untapped Courser of Kruphix or something will be able to eat the attacking 1/1, or on your turn you can swing back and kill sarkhan.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
This was half the reason why I considered adding Bow of Nylea: if we can push a stalemate and topdeck mode, we can gain a ton of life, but if life loss really becomes an issue, we still have Feed the Clan, which I believe is stronger than Nylea's Disciple as we can rely on the gain without relying on having permanents in play.
Standard: N G A W Y R A
Commander: G U B Damia
Yeah I thought of that, but then the nest can't block, which is half its job.
Still not completely sure about Stubborn Denial. I'm looking for something versatile enough. I want to create tempo by protecting my threats but it's hard cause you curve so tightly. Sometimes it's dead. Sometimes it counters Elspeth. Thoughtseize decks generally don't give you that sort of room, but it's a fine game 1 spell I think. Disdainful Stroke isn't right. And Temur Charm is too expensive. The deck wants Spell Pierce or even Mana Leak. That isn't saying much, as any blue deck would probably want those. But the CMC is really important in this case. I could play something like Crater's Claws but even with Ferocious it's still a bit of an investment to deal with problematic things. What these decks are missing that we've had for the past few seasons is that Mortars or Bonfire or Cyclonic Rift type effect which unconditionally you can invalidate the opponents board. Even Overrun would do it. It needs to invalidate blocks and be pretty sure to remove a good chunk of the opponents board. Something like all your creatures are unblockable is probably not good enough. That's why Icy Blast isn't quite right. Something like Aetherspout can be played around and it's hard to encourage the opponents investment into attacking (especially when you present giant blockers). It's a lot more like trying to find the perfect time to cast Fog but it means keeping up 5 mana. Our big effects in this format involve expanding more onto the board. Which is why I like Genesis Hydra (not that I really like the card at all) in that it can grab other non-land permanents. But the mana investment is significant which makes the timing more awkward than I'd like, but at 6 or even 7 there isn't anything providing that sort of permanent advantage.
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Mystery
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Frontier Biovac
1 Mana Confluence
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures(28):
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Arbor Colossus
1 Surrak, Dragonclaw
3 Genesis Hydra
1 Hornet Queen
3 Temur Ascendancy
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Hunt the Hunter
2 Lightning Strike
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Reclamation Sage
3 Nylea's Disciple
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Soul of Shandalar
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Thats why Im contemplating running Feed the Clan maindeck. Its not hard for us to gain 10 life using the card and thats a huge gain for only 1G... plus its an instant so we can do it in response to lethal or a removal of our 4 power creature. Between leaving 1G/B open for Plummet or Turn to frog we can easily justify casting either depending on whats in our hand. Im even tempted to remove Lightning Strike in favor of a more defensive suite of instants.
Whats wrong with Hour of need by itself, 1 or 2 of to mop up the opponent late game?
I noticed that playing a knuckblade with mana up to return him or counter spells is a thing. I was doing that last night at my LGS. Ascendency was better than I thought, Im not ready to play four, I'm playing 3 with a clever impersonator.
Going to GPLA this weekend, hope I can iron out my game plan and practice it against Jaskai and Abzan.
4 elvish mystic
4 sylvan caryatid
3 rattleclaw mystic
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, world Eater
1 clever impersonator
2 stormbreath dragon
1 Surrak dragonclaw
2 Sagu Mauler
spells - 9
3 Temur Ascendency
3 Temur Charm
1 Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker
2 hour of need
4 Frontier Bivouac
2 temple of mystery
1 temple of abandon
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Wooded Foothills
5 forest
2 mountain
2 Mana Confluence
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Nylea's Disciple
2 stubborn denial
2 disdainful stroke
1 surrak dragonclaw
2 Destructive Revelry
After my mid day testing session I am being expose to the power of Temur ascendency. I might have to go to 4 and drop the maulers and sarkhan for more stormbreath and direct damage: Lightning strike, crater's claw
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Some of the more interesting, on color options with tribute:
Nessian Demolok
- 3GG: 3/3 Haste + Bramblecrush
(or)
- 3GG: 5/5 Haste + Draw a card.
Siren of the Fanged Coast
- 3UU: 1/1 Flying Haste + Indefinite creature theft.
(or)
- 3UU: 4/4 Flying Haste + Draw a card.
Oracle of Bones
- 2RR: 3/1 Haste + Free cast instant/sorcery. (See the Unwritten anyone?)
(or)
- 2RR: 5/3 Haste + Draw a card.
And then probably my favorite:
Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
- 2RR: 3/3 Flying Haste + Returns to hand on death.
(or)
- 2RR: 5/5 Flying Haste + Draw a card.
It really desync's the balance in tribute. Most players would just pay it and then use a removal on it later and deny you the card advantage that comes from not paying tribute. But all of these creatures grow into 4+ power if tribute is payed, giving you card advantage on both tribute and nontribute paths, as well as giving everyone haste so opting to pay tribute makes sorc speed removal much less powerful against it.
One things for sure. I'f I ever sleeve up a Temur Ascendancy centered deck, no way I'm not playing a full set of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix. There is no bad options with that card while ascendancy is out.
They do. Tribute is triggered as the creature is transitioning from the stack, and it would enter the battlefield with the counters already placed on the creature, this is the reason Fanatic of Xenagos interacts poorly with Temur Ascendancy is because the options become:
1RG: 3/3 Trample Haste + "+1/+1 Until end of turn."
(or)
1RG: 4/4 Trample Haste + Draw a card.
To which, nobody in there right mind would ever allow you to gain that +1/+1 permanently, and draw a card to boot. lol.
This is also the difference between Temur Ascendancy triggering and not triggering in this situation. If tribute is payed it enters as a 3/3 with a +1/+1 counter. If it's trigger is not payed, it enters the battlefield and then triggers its +1/+1 until end of turn ability, by which point Temur Ascendancy's trigger has come and gone.
Sorry if the decklist isn't quite right going off memory.
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Courser of Kruphix
2x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Ashcloud Phoenix
2x Xenagos, the Reveler
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Spells -
3x Crater's Claws
3x Stubborn Denial
3x Temur Charm
1x Villianous Wealth
Land -
4x Frontier Bivouac
3x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Island
1x Shivan Reef
1x Temple of Epiphany
4x Temple of Abandon
1x Temple of Mystery
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Mana Confluence
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The phoenix was huge against anyone relying on removal. Against a B/R deck, I morphed him 3 turns in a row after opponent hero's downfall or other targeted removal.
Stubborn Denial and Temur Charm were all stars all night long. Countered so many removal spells protecting Polukranos and Knuckleblades, opponents struggled. The fight from Temur was great removal but counter was more valuable. The 4th of both in sideboard are wanting to go main.
All the tap lands made Elvish Mystic questionable since T1 is always tapped to prep for T2 Caryatid/Rattleclaw.
The stormbreath's pro-white avoided a lot of removal.
Never got to play Keranos since most other 4/5 drops were situationally better when I saw him.
Villianous Wealth was an all star last week but this week the Crater's Claws were situationally better.
Coursers are always solid but you usually want to accelerate into 4 drop so only playing 3.
Knuckleblade same deal but his 4 power fuels the denial. Also nice to bounce him as blocker against deathtouch creatures.
Polukranos, World Eater is a hard call. His monsterous removal is great and got enough ramp getting +5 not uncommon but fliers win the game so only playing 3.
Ran Purphurous and Chandra in sideboard.
Mono-Black aggro was challenge so Chandra probably going main to deal with 1 toughness.
I may try to run a list with 4x Flame-Wreathed Phoenix and 4x Master of Predicaments. If master hits, your opponent will have a hard time deciding four or less, or five or more when you have equally impressive threats in both categories. lol.
I'm currently tweaking an aggressive midrange list that I'll post here soon.