When should i cast Reclamation Sage and when should I hold back? I see 3 main targets: Blossoms, Whip, Giant. Are they equally important to kill, or is one more so? Would you bring Silence the Believers to take out Pharika etc., or no?
All three are dangerous, and it's very field-dependent. Giant will usually not be the one you kill, unless Pharika, God of Affliction is out, in which case you probably want to kill it before it board wipes you. If you're racing and winning, Whip of Erebos will subvert that, so you'd want to kill that. If the board is at parity, I'd aim for Eidolon of Blossoms, as it can let the opponent get ahead of you. As for siding in Silence the Believers, while it's a good card, I think I'd prefer siding in Unravel the AEther. It still kills a lot of the deck and doesn't require Pharika to be a creature to target her. She's dangerous enough without being animated.
The mirror match is a grindfest, but it really hinges on Pharika. Whip of Erebos actually isn't that important, as both sides are just building up their fields. Pharika makes opposing Whips useless, and allows your Eidolons and Doomwakes to really go crazy. In my experience, the mirror tends to be both players jockeying around until Pharika allows one player to get vastly ahead. The Pharika + Doomwake board wipe is usually what I end up going for.
@Midwestern Mudkip: Hey, welcome to the archetype. Is the 1x Elvish Mystic really doing anything for you? It's not particularly exciting unless you drop it turn 1, and if you're only playing 1 copy, that'll happen in a tiny percentage of games. I'd switch it for a 24th land, to increase the deck's overall consistency.
Also, I'd really go up to 4 Siege Rhinos. Siege Rhino is an amazing source of pressure and defense, and it's the deck's best turn 3/4 play, depending on whether or not you have a Caryatid. You could go down a Hornet Queen for it, as Abzan doesn't need to run the full 3 Hornet Queens, as Siege Rhino gives us Whip targets that GB Constellation doesn't really have.
I like Abzan Charm a lot, but I'm less fond of it in this deck. The removal is nice but it misses Stormbreath Dragon, which is one of the few singular threats we're really worried about. I would either go up on Hero's Downfalls and Murderous Cuts, or run Utter End so that you can hit Whip of Erebos and Pharika.
In general, I've become less fond of Banishing Light. As this deck gets more and more popular, and Whip of Erebos decks get better, enchantment removal gets more and more prevalent, and the Back to Natures have started appearing. In a world where Reclamation Sages are appearing maindeck, I'm not a fan of running removal that can release the threats it got rid of.
I just went 3-0-1 at a fairly competitive Monday night tourney (where I totally punted in the drawn match), so I think I can post my list for feedback here. The list is built around what some probably consider an unplayable card, so if anybody objects, I will stop posting about this list in the competitive section.
I want suggestions for improvement. The weaknesses I see so far are Stormbreath and aggro decks. The arguably unplayable card is Skybind and the deck is trying to abuse non-enchantment ETB effects. The sideboard is not good. I think I want another Hornet Queen, but am unsure about what I need beyond that.
The deck is fun to play because I keep finding new uses for Skybind. A week ago, I used it to blink one of my Siege Rhinos that my opponent had cast w/Ashiok. This week, I used it to blink a Sorin that was on the verge of ultimating.
Thanks for the response! I had the same thoughts about the mystic and he is gone now. I really like Banishing Light due to it's synergy with Eidolon of Blossoms. I've actually changed the deck up a bit, had some of the same ideas you did. List:
Abzan Charm is just so versatile, I find myself using it to exile rabblemasters, other Rhinos, or card draw. But I could see maybe dropping it for murderous cut.
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I just went 3-0-1 at a fairly competitive Monday night tourney (where I totally punted in the drawn match), so I think I can post my list for feedback here. The list is built around what some probably consider an unplayable card, so if anybody objects, I will stop posting about this list in the competitive section.
I want suggestions for improvement. The weaknesses I see so far are Stormbreath and aggro decks. The arguably unplayable card is Skybind and the deck is trying to abuse non-enchantment ETB effects. The sideboard is not good. I think I want another Hornet Queen, but am unsure about what I need beyond that.
The deck is fun to play because I keep finding new uses for Skybind. A week ago, I used it to blink one of my Siege Rhinos that my opponent had cast w/Ashiok. This week, I used it to blink a Sorin that was on the verge of ultimating.
Skybind is a card I've tried to make work, but it's just too slow. If you swapped Skybind for Whip of Erebos in your list, the deck would run much more smoothly. Skybind pushes a deck in two contrasting directions--enchantments to trigger Skybind, and nonenchantments to be targeted by Skybind. If you make one side of the deck better, the other side suffers. You have to jump through some serious hoops in deckbuilding to be able to use Skybind, and then if everything goes right, you do get to double up on triggers, but it's kind of win-more--if you're reliably casting enchantments after you cast a 5-mana enchantment that does nothing on it's own while having a Wingmate Roc/Siege Rhino/Hornet Queen on the battlefield, you're probably already winning. Skybind isn't going to do anything on an empty board, Whip of Erebos can. The deck can certainly work, but I think you'd find a lot more success just playing Whip instead of the Skybind route, even if it is less original.
If you really want to play Skybind, I'd suggest playing 4 Boon Satyrs and possibly some Fated Interventions to get the ability to activate Skybind at instant speed for extra benefits.
@Admiral - Thanks for the response! I'll probably keep fiddling w/it until I figure out for myself why it's bad. The Fated Interventions are a great idea. I fear my presentation was misleading. Although the deck is built around Skybind, I want it to be a competitive Abzan constellation deck that just uses Skybind to finish. I am trying to draw cards w/Eidolons, kill things w/Doomwakes, drain and trample w/Rhinos, except for 3 slots. So rather than 3 Whips and 4 Wayfinders, I have 2 Skybinds and a Pharika's Mender, giving me 4 more usable slots. My "whip" costs 1 more to cast and doesn't provide lifelink, but it activates for free, including when it comes into play. My targets don't get exiled and it isn't legendary, either. But you know all this... Thanks again.
Anyway, I've been playing constellation off and on since the last standard and have been using these threads for ideas. I am grateful for your work creating and maintaining this thread.
I am left w/a question. Is this list competitive enough for this thread or should I post in Standard Deck Creation in the future? Obviously, I think it is competitive, but I know my viewpoint is the opposite of objective.
@Admiral - Thanks for the response! I'll probably keep fiddling w/it until I figure out for myself why it's bad. The Fated Interventions are a great idea. I fear my presentation was misleading. Although the deck is built around Skybind, I want it to be a competitive Abzan constellation deck that just uses Skybind to finish. I am trying to draw cards w/Eidolons, kill things w/Doomwakes, drain and trample w/Rhinos, except for 3 slots. So rather than 3 Whips and 4 Wayfinders, I have 2 Skybinds and a Pharika's Mender, giving me 4 more usable slots. My "whip" costs 1 more to cast and doesn't provide lifelink, but it activates for free, including when it comes into play. My targets don't get exiled and it isn't legendary, either. But you know all this... Thanks again.
Anyway, I've been playing constellation off and on since the last standard and have been using these threads for ideas. I am grateful for your work creating and maintaining this thread.
I am left w/a question. Is this list competitive enough for this thread or should I post in Standard Deck Creation in the future? Obviously, I think it is competitive, but I know my viewpoint is the opposite of objective.
I haven't done extensive testing with Skybind, so I don't really want to say that the deck isn't competitive enough for this thread and leave it at that. However, I do think that if you want to focus on Skybind, you would likely be better served making a thread in Standard Deck Creation for a Skybind Constellation deck. Most of the people here are focused on the Whip of Erebos version, and while Skybind could end up being competitive, it's not where the thread's general energies are. I wouldn't turn anyone away from posting in this thread, but for your own sake and for your deck's progression, I think you'd go further in Standard Deck Creation, where you could get people that are dedicated to making Skybind work.
So looking at FRF spoilers, only a couple cards caught my attention for the Abzan version. Lightform and Citadel Siege. Lightform for being pretty much a 2/2 flying lifelink enchantment creature that sometimes can provide additional value by being flipped face-up and Citadel Siege for just being an all-around useful enchantment. Thoughts?
I think the mana base could be better. I can't tell if Rescue from the Underworld is a win-more card or not because I usually just win from casting it and getting back a hornet queen with a Purph out
So I'm starting to build this deck (because its a lot of fun, and Jeskai Tokens is super stressful to pilot aha), and am looking to straight GB. I'm wondering whether GB lists are generally still running Elvish Mystics? I notice a lot of lists seem to go 22 Lands, 2 Elvish Mystics... which is really quite terrifying. I feel like I'd rather go 23 lands, and use that other Mystic slot for something else.
So I'm starting to build this deck (because its a lot of fun, and Jeskai Tokens is super stressful to pilot aha), and am looking to straight GB. I'm wondering whether GB lists are generally still running Elvish Mystics? I notice a lot of lists seem to go 22 Lands, 2 Elvish Mystics... which is really quite terrifying. I feel like I'd rather go 23 lands, and use that other Mystic slot for something else.
I disagree with using Elvish Mystic personally. I have always felt those card slots could be used for better cards. I am running a straight green black, and even with just those two colors I find so many other cards that work better than a couple Elvish Mystics. ( I run 4 of Sylvan Caryatid of course.)
Having 3 mana on turn 2 is great, but you waste 2-4 card slots doing so, and the only situation in the deck where 3 mana on turn 2 is useful is when you have a Courser of Kruphix to cast turn 3. I prefer just waiting for Sylvan Caryatid on turn 2, and having 4 mana on turn 3. Elvish Mystics do nothing mid-late game.
Played a small 4 round TNM last night went 3-1 to split top 4 played the deck posted above
Round OneVs. Abzan Midrange(with Whip)2-1 Game 1- Was slightly comical as we each had the exact same first 3 turns. curving out into turn 3 rhinos. Only difference was he had a second rhino and I did not. I banishing light'd one of his rhinos and we had a stalemate on board. The difference was I think, my Eidolon of Blossoms was drawing me cards while his courser was just showing them to him. He plays a Hornet Queen, I play whip on my turn, he swings drops me to 6. I respond with my own hornet queen. He doesnt swing and I swing in to tie it up 13-13, he scoops to that Sideboard-2 Banishing Light -1 Courser of Kruphix +2 Anafenza, the Foremost +1 Erebos, God of the Dead Game 2- He curves out into turn 3 rhino t4 rhino and I just didn't have the answers Game 3- It's my turn to double rhino, he stalls for a while, gets rid of one of them, but I was able to downfall away 2 of his rhinos and swing in for the win with Doomwake
1-0
Round Twovs. Jeskai Tokens2-0 Game 1- This is a deck I feel my deck has no issues with. he starts with a seeker, I abzan charm it when it prowesses to 3. he builds up a lil token army )hahaha) with Rabble Master till turn 5 then down comes Doomwake Giant, followed by turn 6 doomwake Giant to clear he rabble master. it was over after that. Sideboard-2 Banishing Light -2 Murderous Cut -1 Courser +1 Doomwake Giant +2 Bile Blight +2 Reclamation Sage Game 2- Game 2 went more of the same way except his hush wing hippogryff slowed me down till I bile blighted it, then eidolon went off and i finished him with a rhino
2-0
Round ThreeVs R/G/w Midrange? 0-2 Game 1- I kept a 2 lander and drew dead for several turns he just ran right over me Sideboard -2 Banishing Light -1 Courser +2 Bile blight +1 Utter end Game 2- I had a better hand and got a rhino out, but he had Nissa and StormBreath Dragon And Chandra AND Elspeth come out while I wasn't drawing many answers. Got ran over again
2-1
Round FourVs. Abzan Midrange 2-0 Game 1 - More of the same from round one really. I once again found my Eidolon helping me win the card advantage game as I was drawing while he was just looking. I got a hornet queen out and won shortly after that Sideboard -2 Banishing Light -2 Courser -1 Eidolon +2 Reclamation Sage +1 Hornet Queen +1 Erebos +1 Pharika Game 2 - Not really a Game he got mana screwed and I got a turn 3 rhino.
Thoughts from last night. Banishing Light comes out after game 1 pretty much automatically, so I think Im gonna remove the 1 SB and replace it with another Downfall or Utter end. WIth 2 Bile Blight I'm not sure how Necessary a 4th doomwake is... I could see placing him with a reaper of the wilds to help shore up control? I'm not too sure still. I am also considering dropping to 23 lands and running an additional Abzan Charm/Hero's Downfall.
Anyway, any thoughts comments or whatever is always welcome!
Your experience with Abzan and Jeskai is essentially what mine has been. Neither matchup is one that really threatens us that much. Doomwake Giant really just makes the tokens matchup a joke. I do agree that a 4th Doomwake is generally unnecessary. I had a 4th in my sideboard for a while, but in the end the matchups Doomwake was good in, 3 was sufficient.
RG/Naya Midrange can really be an annoying matchup for us. We tend to beat aggro decks by dropping beef on the table and gaining life, and we beat midrange decks by going over the top, but this deck isn't really playing the same game that the other midrange decks in standard are, and our beefy creatures aren't enough to stop them from hitting us. Polukranos breaks through Siege Rhino, and Stormbreath just flies over it. On hands when I draw removal, the match isn't that hard, but if not, that one Stormbreath Dragon can just run away with a game. It also really doesn't help that they're one of the decks that can absolutely side in Back to Nature against us. Against these decks, I like bringing in Thoughtseize, because the deck's curve is still pretty fragile, and they're less consistent than we are, so ruining their curve can cause the deck to just sputter and die. They're racing us, but the 2 life is easily worth not having to deal with a planeswalker or a Stormbreath Dragon.
It's obviously meant to work off the Doomwakes. Bit outdated or somewhat sensible? I'm not sure if I want four Heralds or four Eidolons. A 7/9 flying Doomwake sounds nice...
Herald is good, but don't cut Eidolons for it. So much card advantage with that card you want 4. The two cards I'm not confident of here are See the Unwritten and Rescue from the Underworld.
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See the Unwritten was a fun card, but it's not exactly something the deck particularly needs. Rescue the Underworld is a card I keep meaning to try out, as the possible upside of getting more Constellation triggers is appealing.
Now that the entire set of Fate Reforged is spoiled, we can talk about possible additions to this archetype.
Citadel Siege is a very solid card, and the Dragon mode essentially locks down the opponent's best creature every turn. My hesitation with it is that the 4-drop slot in the Abzan Constellation lists is extremely clogged--Siege Rhino, Whip of Erebos, and Eidolon of Blossoms all crowd the four-drop slot, so I'm not too crazy about the card.
Lightform is an interesting card. It's essentially an enchantment creature for the purposes of Eidolon of Blossoms and Doomwake Giant, one that isn't completely ruined by enchatment removal. The double white cost is likely what will make this card not make the cut for me, though.
Mastery of the Unseen is an odd one, but I think it's deceptively powerful. Sadly, despite the fact that it's an enchantment, I'm not sure if it's what this deck particularly needs, as this card will excel in decks where you can leave mana open easily and choose to manifest when you have nothing better to do. We're pretty interested in commiting resources to the board.
I'll take a moment here to recognize Torrent Elemental as a possible great inclusion as a 1- or 2-of in the GB splashing blue or Sultai lists, as it can break board stalls wide open, while also being very hard for our opponents to actually kill permanently. It's slow going in terms of recursion, but it'll get the job going. Whipping it back is particularly good, and if Whip isn't available, Murderous Cut and Pharika can get it into exile.
Grave Strength is probably just bad, but the potential is certainly tempting. It puts a counter for *each* creature in the graveyard, not just what it itself dumps, so you can get some serious mileage out of it. It's worth keeping in mind, at least.
Palace Siege is probably just useless while Whip of Erebos is in town. I like that it's less mana intensive, but the lack of lifelink hurts it a lot.
Soulflayer is an interesting one. We have some good keywords we can pass onto it, and it's probably the best use of Pharikas and Sylvan Caryatids that find themselves in the graveyard. Hornet Queen also gives it two abilities if you don't have a whip available.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a *really* cool card, and I've been testing it for a while. I haven't been a huge fan of straight BG constellation because it lacked a nonenchantment creature like Siege Rhino or Sidisi to provide some standalone bulk, but Tasigur could just be that creature. Satyr Wayfinder and Commune with the Gods allow for a turn 3 Tasigur, and Commune with the Gods even allows for a turn 3 Tasigur alongside another 2-mana spell. He blocks Siege Rhino and can attack through Courser of Kruphix, and he can generate value all by himself on turns you don't have anything else to do, or when you have a removal spell you might want to cast. He also fuels future delve spells, Pharika, and Whip of Erebos. He's a card that can be easy to misevaluate just because his ability seems lackluster, but in a deck like ours, his mana cost can essentially read as 2B or less. Being able to land an Eidolon and Tasigur in the same time is pretty big game, and Nyxthos can help to use his ability more than once a turn.
Frontier Siege is hilarious with Hornet Queen, but generally doesn't seem worth it for us. Giving us more mana to possibly do multiple things a turn is nice, but I'm not sure I want to spend a whole turn setting it up.
Warden of the First Tree is a card I mention because it's a high-profile GB/Abzan card from this set, but we tend to be pretty greedy with our mana, so I doubt we're that interested in him.
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is a card that almost tempts me into red, as the thought of dropping Hornet Queens into play off of her ability is just so, so delicious. She'd also return Eidolon of Blossoms or Courser of Kruphix. It's extremely tempting, but likely not worth it. I know some people in this thread are trying out Jund, and she's definitely worth taking a look at.
I'm currently testing versions of the deck that splash white for Siege Rhino's power, or abstain in favor of greater consistency. I'm not entirely sure which will be better, but Tasigur's existence as a nonenchantment source of power and card advantage is extremely valuable in this metagame where enchantment hate is prevalent, so I think he'll be in either version of the deck. I'll be back with prospective decklists after I've gotten a feel for both versions.
I've been considering just biting the bullet and splashing white here for Siege Rhino and Banishing Light, but I'm starting to wonder whether Abzan Constellation decks are pretty much just suboptimal Abzan Midrange/Whip decks?
I've been considering just biting the bullet and splashing white here for Siege Rhino and Banishing Light, but I'm starting to wonder whether Abzan Constellation decks are pretty much just suboptimal Abzan Midrange/Whip decks?
There is a considerable amount of overlap, but if one is playing Abzan Constellation, you're trading some of the power that Abzan Midrange has for gaining an edge in matchups where the games are likely to go long. In a metagame where you're facing a ton of aggressive decks, while Abzan Constellation certainly has a good matchup against most of those decks, Abzan Midrange decks with Whip will likely be better choices. If Control and other Whip decks are running around, Constellation has an advantage.
I fail to see the link between Manifest and Constellation. I think the strategies are opposed.
What's the opinion here on matchups for Sultai Constellation? I'm feeling UW Heroic is very hard, also UB Ashiok, but other decks are good. But I'm not expert at this.
@Cloudheaded Amigo: I personally like manifest a lot, but it won't be helping this deck out very much. We live and die by our enters-the-battlefield triggers, and Manifest doesn't allow us to utilize them.
@lajube: The heroic matchup is pretty swingy. We can hit them with an early removal spell, land a whip of erebos, and just proceed to swamp them, or fail to find removal and die to a buffed creature. For sideboard, we really just need some more spot removal/some life gain in the form of Nylea's Disciple or something. The two cards you mentioned aren't really strong enough to do much.
I've been doing some late-night brainstorming, and this is a rough draft of sorts of a deck I'm working on right now.
No sideboard at the moment, but this is what I'm looking at. I'm running the full complement of Satyr Wayfinders and Commune with the Gods, because they work so well with the delve spells, and because I'm running 4 Commune with the Gods, I can run 2 Whip of Erebos and still have a good chance of finding one when I need it. This deck has two seperate parts--the graveyard theme and the Constellation enchantments, and they work together. Eidolon of Blossoms gives us CA, that, along with Courser, Commune with the Gods, Whip of Erebos and Tasigur's ability, allow for few situations where we don't have something we can do. Tasigur isn't affected by what hurts the constellation cards, and the constellation cards aren't really affected by graveyard hate.
Empty the Pits is a card I've always been fond of, but I've never really found a deck I liked it in--until now. It is a somewhat clunky card, but we're dumping cards into our graveyard, so we might as well use them. Empty the Pits makes overextending slightly less of a big deal, as if our creatures are killed, we can cast this to have a field presence again. It mitigates the effect of Back to Nature on the deck, by turning our fallen enchantments into fodder for what is, essentially, an "I-win" button. It also works well with Whip of Erebos, as even when Empty the Pits isn't going to win us the game, it can cause a pretty massive lifeswing when Whip is on the field. Empty the Pits gives us something most decks outside of Jeskai Ascendancy combo don't have--a way to abruptly shift a game and win from almost any position. Even if a game is going poorly for us, if our graveyard is significantly filled, Empty the Pits can give us the reach we need to finish off a game.
The rest of the deck is what you'd expect. Hero's Downfall is essentially a concession to Ashiok, and I like having at least 5 maindeck removal spells so that we have a good chance of stopping UW heroic's nut draws.
Before Fate Reforged, I didn't really see a reason to not play Siege Rhino, but Empty the Pits and Tasigur give GB Constellation the tools to have legitimate power with only those two colors, as well as the boost in consistency that running only two colors gives you. I'm sure this list needs tuning, but it's what I'll be tinkering with as the release date approaches.
Just breaking off from the new cards discussion, just after some input to a dilemma. I ran this list yesterday, sort of Abzan Reanimator-Constellation hybrid, and it worked quite well. Except for that it has a very narrow entry point, i.e. you really need a good hand to start with. I went 2-2 on the night yesterday, and the losses were down to having to go down to four cards, and then just having to hope I pull something really good which I didn't. And against red rush decks, it's not going to work. Anyway, here's the list:
Unless there's a Sylvan Caryatid in the opening hand it gets hard, very hard. Ideally I'd have a Caryatid and a Siege Rhino out on T3, and then start bombing Doomwake Giants on the opponent with See the Unwritten and Rescue from the Underworld (as a footnote, I was faced with something like three 2/2 Soldiers and five 2/2 flying Spirits yesterday and I had one Caryatid out and like five life left when I got See the Unwritten out, this then dropped a Giant and an Eidolon, triggering -2/-2 and saving my bacon big time). I'm dubious about Soul of Theros, but it's a good finisher and works out of the graveyard, and I'm very unsure about Satyr Wayfinder, so that might be four slots I could change out. Question is with what? Fleecemane Lion: early drop at least, no enchantment trigger and no whip value? Nyx-Fleece Ram: good early blocker, triggers constellation, no whip value? Herald of Torment: flying, good 3/3 for 3, enchantment trigger, some whip value? Pharika, God of Affliction: no early value, enchantment trigger, limited whip value? Or just drop the two souls and go with four Wayfinders?
Basically I run a very graveyard centric strategy, hence the two Nyx Weavers. I need things in the graveyard so I have choice as to what I can play.
Just breaking off from the new cards discussion, just after some input to a dilemma. I ran this list yesterday, sort of Abzan Reanimator-Constellation hybrid, and it worked quite well. Except for that it has a very narrow entry point, i.e. you really need a good hand to start with. I went 2-2 on the night yesterday, and the losses were down to having to go down to four cards, and then just having to hope I pull something really good which I didn't. And against red rush decks, it's not going to work. Anyway, here's the list:
Unless there's a Sylvan Caryatid in the opening hand it gets hard, very hard. Ideally I'd have a Caryatid and a Siege Rhino out on T3, and then start bombing Doomwake Giants on the opponent with See the Unwritten and Rescue from the Underworld (as a footnote, I was faced with something like three 2/2 Soldiers and five 2/2 flying Spirits yesterday and I had one Caryatid out and like five life left when I got See the Unwritten out, this then dropped a Giant and an Eidolon, triggering -2/-2 and saving my bacon big time). I'm dubious about Soul of Theros, but it's a good finisher and works out of the graveyard, and I'm very unsure about Satyr Wayfinder, so that might be four slots I could change out. Question is with what? Fleecemane Lion: early drop at least, no enchantment trigger and no whip value? Nyx-Fleece Ram: good early blocker, triggers constellation, no whip value? Herald of Torment: flying, good 3/3 for 3, enchantment trigger, some whip value? Pharika, God of Affliction: no early value, enchantment trigger, limited whip value? Or just drop the two souls and go with four Wayfinders?
Basically I run a very graveyard centric strategy, hence the two Nyx Weavers. I need things in the graveyard so I have choice as to what I can play.
One of the weaknesses of Whip decks is the number of early plays available to us. Satyr Wayfinder isn't an exciting card, but it serves a very impotant function in these lists, as it gives us something to do turn 2. If you want to run See the Unwritten, you probably also want to put Elvish Mystic in here. It helps with the problem you're having, and gets you to your business spells earlier as well. If I were to play your list and wanted to keep it's general strategy, I'd take out the 2 Nyx Weavers, and 2 Rescue from the Underworld for 4 Elvish Mystics. With Soul of Theros, See the Unwritten, and Hornet Queen all in the same deck, you're going to need the acceleration. Rescue from the Underworld is nice, but Whip of Erebos is generally sufficient for reanimation purposes.
Any other advice I give you will just be pushing you towards my list, but Whip decks need their support and set-up, and at the moment, you have too much stuff going on in the later game for the deck to function consistently.
Lower the curve and have blockers? Wayfinder is perfect for this. It died, but it already found you land and prevented damage and fed the grave. Hornet Nest is an unconventional answer.
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Admiral & lajube: thank you both very much for the feedback, it's immensely appreciated. I would love to get Hornet Nest in there, what a shock for a monster deck that would be... Maybe it's a sideboard option?
I've been trying dropping the Weavers and Rescue and going with the four Satyrs and two Mystics instead and it does seem a lot better. Of course, half the time I'm getting Caryatid, Courser, Rhino in the opening hand, which I couldn't manage yesterday. But for when I don't, at least I have a chance. It's not as graveyard-y as I'm used to which is why I did the four Wayfinders instead of two, but it works very nicely. I have more of an alternative opening; Forest + Mystic -> Sandsteppe Citadel + Wayfinder -> Basic or Pain Land + Rhino. I really like it now, and it hasn't cost me any extra. Yet... I might want two more Llanowar Wastes now...
All three are dangerous, and it's very field-dependent. Giant will usually not be the one you kill, unless Pharika, God of Affliction is out, in which case you probably want to kill it before it board wipes you. If you're racing and winning, Whip of Erebos will subvert that, so you'd want to kill that. If the board is at parity, I'd aim for Eidolon of Blossoms, as it can let the opponent get ahead of you. As for siding in Silence the Believers, while it's a good card, I think I'd prefer siding in Unravel the AEther. It still kills a lot of the deck and doesn't require Pharika to be a creature to target her. She's dangerous enough without being animated.
The mirror match is a grindfest, but it really hinges on Pharika. Whip of Erebos actually isn't that important, as both sides are just building up their fields. Pharika makes opposing Whips useless, and allows your Eidolons and Doomwakes to really go crazy. In my experience, the mirror tends to be both players jockeying around until Pharika allows one player to get vastly ahead. The Pharika + Doomwake board wipe is usually what I end up going for.
@Midwestern Mudkip: Hey, welcome to the archetype. Is the 1x Elvish Mystic really doing anything for you? It's not particularly exciting unless you drop it turn 1, and if you're only playing 1 copy, that'll happen in a tiny percentage of games. I'd switch it for a 24th land, to increase the deck's overall consistency.
Also, I'd really go up to 4 Siege Rhinos. Siege Rhino is an amazing source of pressure and defense, and it's the deck's best turn 3/4 play, depending on whether or not you have a Caryatid. You could go down a Hornet Queen for it, as Abzan doesn't need to run the full 3 Hornet Queens, as Siege Rhino gives us Whip targets that GB Constellation doesn't really have.
I like Abzan Charm a lot, but I'm less fond of it in this deck. The removal is nice but it misses Stormbreath Dragon, which is one of the few singular threats we're really worried about. I would either go up on Hero's Downfalls and Murderous Cuts, or run Utter End so that you can hit Whip of Erebos and Pharika.
In general, I've become less fond of Banishing Light. As this deck gets more and more popular, and Whip of Erebos decks get better, enchantment removal gets more and more prevalent, and the Back to Natures have started appearing. In a world where Reclamation Sages are appearing maindeck, I'm not a fan of running removal that can release the threats it got rid of.
I just went 3-0-1 at a fairly competitive Monday night tourney (where I totally punted in the drawn match), so I think I can post my list for feedback here. The list is built around what some probably consider an unplayable card, so if anybody objects, I will stop posting about this list in the competitive section.
I want suggestions for improvement. The weaknesses I see so far are Stormbreath and aggro decks. The arguably unplayable card is Skybind and the deck is trying to abuse non-enchantment ETB effects. The sideboard is not good. I think I want another Hornet Queen, but am unsure about what I need beyond that.
The deck is fun to play because I keep finding new uses for Skybind. A week ago, I used it to blink one of my Siege Rhinos that my opponent had cast w/Ashiok. This week, I used it to blink a Sorin that was on the verge of ultimating.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Abzan Charm
Enchantment Creatures
2 Brain Maggot
1 Boon Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Doomwake Giant
ETB Non-Enchantment Creatures
4 Siege Rhino
1 Pharika's Mender
2 Wingmate Roc
1 Hornet Queen
1 Ashen Rider
3 Banishing Light
2 Skybind
Land
4 Forest
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
1 Brain Maggot
1 Abzan Charm
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Banishing Light
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Hornet Nest
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
3 Reclamation Sage
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Pharika's Mender
1 Duneblast
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Hornet Queen
Thanks in advance
Edit: reading through the above post, I can easily see -1 Banishing Light, -1 Abzan Charm, +2 Hero's Downfall in the sideboard and -1 Temple of Plenty, +1 Temple of Silence mainboard. I think a good way to get another Hornet Queen in is to cut Duneblast from the side, move the Ashen Rider to the sideboard and put another Queen in the main.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
1x Caves of Koilos
5x Forest
3x Llanowar Wastes
2x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
3x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
Enchantment (3)
3x Banishing Light
3x Brain Maggot
4x Courser of Kruphix
3x Doomwake Giant
4x Eidolon of Blossoms
2x Hornet Queen
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
4x Siege Rhino
4x Sylvan Caryatid
Instant (6)
3x Abzan Charm
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Arbor Colossus
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Hornet Queen
2x Mistcutter Hydra
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
3x Reclamation Sage
Abzan Charm is just so versatile, I find myself using it to exile rabblemasters, other Rhinos, or card draw. But I could see maybe dropping it for murderous cut.
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
Skybind is a card I've tried to make work, but it's just too slow. If you swapped Skybind for Whip of Erebos in your list, the deck would run much more smoothly. Skybind pushes a deck in two contrasting directions--enchantments to trigger Skybind, and nonenchantments to be targeted by Skybind. If you make one side of the deck better, the other side suffers. You have to jump through some serious hoops in deckbuilding to be able to use Skybind, and then if everything goes right, you do get to double up on triggers, but it's kind of win-more--if you're reliably casting enchantments after you cast a 5-mana enchantment that does nothing on it's own while having a Wingmate Roc/Siege Rhino/Hornet Queen on the battlefield, you're probably already winning. Skybind isn't going to do anything on an empty board, Whip of Erebos can. The deck can certainly work, but I think you'd find a lot more success just playing Whip instead of the Skybind route, even if it is less original.
If you really want to play Skybind, I'd suggest playing 4 Boon Satyrs and possibly some Fated Interventions to get the ability to activate Skybind at instant speed for extra benefits.
Anyway, I've been playing constellation off and on since the last standard and have been using these threads for ideas. I am grateful for your work creating and maintaining this thread.
I am left w/a question. Is this list competitive enough for this thread or should I post in Standard Deck Creation in the future? Obviously, I think it is competitive, but I know my viewpoint is the opposite of objective.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I haven't done extensive testing with Skybind, so I don't really want to say that the deck isn't competitive enough for this thread and leave it at that. However, I do think that if you want to focus on Skybind, you would likely be better served making a thread in Standard Deck Creation for a Skybind Constellation deck. Most of the people here are focused on the Whip of Erebos version, and while Skybind could end up being competitive, it's not where the thread's general energies are. I wouldn't turn anyone away from posting in this thread, but for your own sake and for your deck's progression, I think you'd go further in Standard Deck Creation, where you could get people that are dedicated to making Skybind work.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Doomwake Giant
1 Soul of Innistrad
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Purphoros God of the Forge
3 Hornet Queen
3 Whip of Erebos
4 Murderous Cut
2 Rescue from the Underworld
Lands - 22
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Abandon
4 Llanowar Wastes
5 Forest
4 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Urborg
I think the mana base could be better. I can't tell if Rescue from the Underworld is a win-more card or not because I usually just win from casting it and getting back a hornet queen with a Purph out
I disagree with using Elvish Mystic personally. I have always felt those card slots could be used for better cards. I am running a straight green black, and even with just those two colors I find so many other cards that work better than a couple Elvish Mystics. ( I run 4 of Sylvan Caryatid of course.)
Having 3 mana on turn 2 is great, but you waste 2-4 card slots doing so, and the only situation in the deck where 3 mana on turn 2 is useful is when you have a Courser of Kruphix to cast turn 3. I prefer just waiting for Sylvan Caryatid on turn 2, and having 4 mana on turn 3. Elvish Mystics do nothing mid-late game.
4x Courser of Kruphix
3x Doomwake Giant
4x Eidolon of Blossoms
2x Hornet Queen
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Siege Rhino
4x Sylvan Caryatid
Instant (8)
3x Abzan Charm
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Murderous Cut
1x Caves of Koilos
5x Forest
3x Llanowar Wastes
2x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Temple of Malady
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
Enchantment (2)
2x Banishing Light
Artifact (3)
3x Whip of Erebos
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
1x Banishing Light
2x Bile Blight
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Hornet Queen
2x Mistcutter Hydra
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
2x Reclamation Sage
Played a small 4 round TNM last night went 3-1 to split top 4 played the deck posted above
Round OneVs. Abzan Midrange(with Whip)2-1
Game 1- Was slightly comical as we each had the exact same first 3 turns. curving out into turn 3 rhinos. Only difference was he had a second rhino and I did not. I banishing light'd one of his rhinos and we had a stalemate on board. The difference was I think, my Eidolon of Blossoms was drawing me cards while his courser was just showing them to him. He plays a Hornet Queen, I play whip on my turn, he swings drops me to 6. I respond with my own hornet queen. He doesnt swing and I swing in to tie it up 13-13, he scoops to that
Sideboard-2 Banishing Light -1 Courser of Kruphix +2 Anafenza, the Foremost +1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Game 2- He curves out into turn 3 rhino t4 rhino and I just didn't have the answers
Game 3- It's my turn to double rhino, he stalls for a while, gets rid of one of them, but I was able to downfall away 2 of his rhinos and swing in for the win with Doomwake
1-0
Round Twovs. Jeskai Tokens2-0
Game 1- This is a deck I feel my deck has no issues with. he starts with a seeker, I abzan charm it when it prowesses to 3. he builds up a lil token army )hahaha) with Rabble Master till turn 5 then down comes Doomwake Giant, followed by turn 6 doomwake Giant to clear he rabble master. it was over after that.
Sideboard-2 Banishing Light -2 Murderous Cut -1 Courser +1 Doomwake Giant +2 Bile Blight +2 Reclamation Sage
Game 2- Game 2 went more of the same way except his hush wing hippogryff slowed me down till I bile blighted it, then eidolon went off and i finished him with a rhino
2-0
Round ThreeVs R/G/w Midrange? 0-2
Game 1- I kept a 2 lander and drew dead for several turns he just ran right over me
Sideboard -2 Banishing Light -1 Courser +2 Bile blight +1 Utter end
Game 2- I had a better hand and got a rhino out, but he had Nissa and StormBreath Dragon And Chandra AND Elspeth come out while I wasn't drawing many answers. Got ran over again
2-1
Round FourVs. Abzan Midrange 2-0
Game 1 - More of the same from round one really. I once again found my Eidolon helping me win the card advantage game as I was drawing while he was just looking. I got a hornet queen out and won shortly after that
Sideboard -2 Banishing Light -2 Courser -1 Eidolon +2 Reclamation Sage +1 Hornet Queen +1 Erebos +1 Pharika
Game 2 - Not really a Game he got mana screwed and I got a turn 3 rhino.
Thoughts from last night. Banishing Light comes out after game 1 pretty much automatically, so I think Im gonna remove the 1 SB and replace it with another Downfall or Utter end. WIth 2 Bile Blight I'm not sure how Necessary a 4th doomwake is... I could see placing him with a reaper of the wilds to help shore up control? I'm not too sure still. I am also considering dropping to 23 lands and running an additional Abzan Charm/Hero's Downfall.
Anyway, any thoughts comments or whatever is always welcome!
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
RG/Naya Midrange can really be an annoying matchup for us. We tend to beat aggro decks by dropping beef on the table and gaining life, and we beat midrange decks by going over the top, but this deck isn't really playing the same game that the other midrange decks in standard are, and our beefy creatures aren't enough to stop them from hitting us. Polukranos breaks through Siege Rhino, and Stormbreath just flies over it. On hands when I draw removal, the match isn't that hard, but if not, that one Stormbreath Dragon can just run away with a game. It also really doesn't help that they're one of the decks that can absolutely side in Back to Nature against us. Against these decks, I like bringing in Thoughtseize, because the deck's curve is still pretty fragile, and they're less consistent than we are, so ruining their curve can cause the deck to just sputter and die. They're racing us, but the 2 life is easily worth not having to deal with a planeswalker or a Stormbreath Dragon.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Nyx Weaver
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Herald of Torment
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Doomwake Giant
3 Hornet Queen
2 Pharika, God of Affliction
3 Whip of Erebos
Spells 10
2 Commune with the Gods
2 See the Unwritten
3 Murderous Cut
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Rescue from the Underworld
It's obviously meant to work off the Doomwakes. Bit outdated or somewhat sensible? I'm not sure if I want four Heralds or four Eidolons. A 7/9 flying Doomwake sounds nice...
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Now that the entire set of Fate Reforged is spoiled, we can talk about possible additions to this archetype.
Citadel Siege is a very solid card, and the Dragon mode essentially locks down the opponent's best creature every turn. My hesitation with it is that the 4-drop slot in the Abzan Constellation lists is extremely clogged--Siege Rhino, Whip of Erebos, and Eidolon of Blossoms all crowd the four-drop slot, so I'm not too crazy about the card.
Lightform is an interesting card. It's essentially an enchantment creature for the purposes of Eidolon of Blossoms and Doomwake Giant, one that isn't completely ruined by enchatment removal. The double white cost is likely what will make this card not make the cut for me, though.
Mastery of the Unseen is an odd one, but I think it's deceptively powerful. Sadly, despite the fact that it's an enchantment, I'm not sure if it's what this deck particularly needs, as this card will excel in decks where you can leave mana open easily and choose to manifest when you have nothing better to do. We're pretty interested in commiting resources to the board.
I'll take a moment here to recognize Torrent Elemental as a possible great inclusion as a 1- or 2-of in the GB splashing blue or Sultai lists, as it can break board stalls wide open, while also being very hard for our opponents to actually kill permanently. It's slow going in terms of recursion, but it'll get the job going. Whipping it back is particularly good, and if Whip isn't available, Murderous Cut and Pharika can get it into exile.
Grave Strength is probably just bad, but the potential is certainly tempting. It puts a counter for *each* creature in the graveyard, not just what it itself dumps, so you can get some serious mileage out of it. It's worth keeping in mind, at least.
Palace Siege is probably just useless while Whip of Erebos is in town. I like that it's less mana intensive, but the lack of lifelink hurts it a lot.
Soulflayer is an interesting one. We have some good keywords we can pass onto it, and it's probably the best use of Pharikas and Sylvan Caryatids that find themselves in the graveyard. Hornet Queen also gives it two abilities if you don't have a whip available.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a *really* cool card, and I've been testing it for a while. I haven't been a huge fan of straight BG constellation because it lacked a nonenchantment creature like Siege Rhino or Sidisi to provide some standalone bulk, but Tasigur could just be that creature. Satyr Wayfinder and Commune with the Gods allow for a turn 3 Tasigur, and Commune with the Gods even allows for a turn 3 Tasigur alongside another 2-mana spell. He blocks Siege Rhino and can attack through Courser of Kruphix, and he can generate value all by himself on turns you don't have anything else to do, or when you have a removal spell you might want to cast. He also fuels future delve spells, Pharika, and Whip of Erebos. He's a card that can be easy to misevaluate just because his ability seems lackluster, but in a deck like ours, his mana cost can essentially read as 2B or less. Being able to land an Eidolon and Tasigur in the same time is pretty big game, and Nyxthos can help to use his ability more than once a turn.
Frontier Siege is hilarious with Hornet Queen, but generally doesn't seem worth it for us. Giving us more mana to possibly do multiple things a turn is nice, but I'm not sure I want to spend a whole turn setting it up.
Warden of the First Tree is a card I mention because it's a high-profile GB/Abzan card from this set, but we tend to be pretty greedy with our mana, so I doubt we're that interested in him.
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is a card that almost tempts me into red, as the thought of dropping Hornet Queens into play off of her ability is just so, so delicious. She'd also return Eidolon of Blossoms or Courser of Kruphix. It's extremely tempting, but likely not worth it. I know some people in this thread are trying out Jund, and she's definitely worth taking a look at.
I'm currently testing versions of the deck that splash white for Siege Rhino's power, or abstain in favor of greater consistency. I'm not entirely sure which will be better, but Tasigur's existence as a nonenchantment source of power and card advantage is extremely valuable in this metagame where enchantment hate is prevalent, so I think he'll be in either version of the deck. I'll be back with prospective decklists after I've gotten a feel for both versions.
There is a considerable amount of overlap, but if one is playing Abzan Constellation, you're trading some of the power that Abzan Midrange has for gaining an edge in matchups where the games are likely to go long. In a metagame where you're facing a ton of aggressive decks, while Abzan Constellation certainly has a good matchup against most of those decks, Abzan Midrange decks with Whip will likely be better choices. If Control and other Whip decks are running around, Constellation has an advantage.
What's the opinion here on matchups for Sultai Constellation? I'm feeling UW Heroic is very hard, also UB Ashiok, but other decks are good. But I'm not expert at this.
For the heroic match, any thoughts on Guardians of Meletis, Force Away, any other strategems?
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
@lajube: The heroic matchup is pretty swingy. We can hit them with an early removal spell, land a whip of erebos, and just proceed to swamp them, or fail to find removal and die to a buffed creature. For sideboard, we really just need some more spot removal/some life gain in the form of Nylea's Disciple or something. The two cards you mentioned aren't really strong enough to do much.
I've been doing some late-night brainstorming, and this is a rough draft of sorts of a deck I'm working on right now.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Doomwake Giant
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Hornet Queen
2 Whip of Erebos
Instants/Sorceries
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Murderous Cut
2 Empty the Pits
Land
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Temple of Malady
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Windswept Heath
4 Forest
No sideboard at the moment, but this is what I'm looking at. I'm running the full complement of Satyr Wayfinders and Commune with the Gods, because they work so well with the delve spells, and because I'm running 4 Commune with the Gods, I can run 2 Whip of Erebos and still have a good chance of finding one when I need it. This deck has two seperate parts--the graveyard theme and the Constellation enchantments, and they work together. Eidolon of Blossoms gives us CA, that, along with Courser, Commune with the Gods, Whip of Erebos and Tasigur's ability, allow for few situations where we don't have something we can do. Tasigur isn't affected by what hurts the constellation cards, and the constellation cards aren't really affected by graveyard hate.
Empty the Pits is a card I've always been fond of, but I've never really found a deck I liked it in--until now. It is a somewhat clunky card, but we're dumping cards into our graveyard, so we might as well use them. Empty the Pits makes overextending slightly less of a big deal, as if our creatures are killed, we can cast this to have a field presence again. It mitigates the effect of Back to Nature on the deck, by turning our fallen enchantments into fodder for what is, essentially, an "I-win" button. It also works well with Whip of Erebos, as even when Empty the Pits isn't going to win us the game, it can cause a pretty massive lifeswing when Whip is on the field. Empty the Pits gives us something most decks outside of Jeskai Ascendancy combo don't have--a way to abruptly shift a game and win from almost any position. Even if a game is going poorly for us, if our graveyard is significantly filled, Empty the Pits can give us the reach we need to finish off a game.
The rest of the deck is what you'd expect. Hero's Downfall is essentially a concession to Ashiok, and I like having at least 5 maindeck removal spells so that we have a good chance of stopping UW heroic's nut draws.
Before Fate Reforged, I didn't really see a reason to not play Siege Rhino, but Empty the Pits and Tasigur give GB Constellation the tools to have legitimate power with only those two colors, as well as the boost in consistency that running only two colors gives you. I'm sure this list needs tuning, but it's what I'll be tinkering with as the release date approaches.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Nyx Weaver
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Doomwake Giant
2 Soul of Theros
2 Hornet Queen
3 Whip of Erebos
Spells 10
2 Commune with the Gods
2 See the Unwritten
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Banishing Light
2 Rescue from the Underworld
Unless there's a Sylvan Caryatid in the opening hand it gets hard, very hard. Ideally I'd have a Caryatid and a Siege Rhino out on T3, and then start bombing Doomwake Giants on the opponent with See the Unwritten and Rescue from the Underworld (as a footnote, I was faced with something like three 2/2 Soldiers and five 2/2 flying Spirits yesterday and I had one Caryatid out and like five life left when I got See the Unwritten out, this then dropped a Giant and an Eidolon, triggering -2/-2 and saving my bacon big time). I'm dubious about Soul of Theros, but it's a good finisher and works out of the graveyard, and I'm very unsure about Satyr Wayfinder, so that might be four slots I could change out. Question is with what? Fleecemane Lion: early drop at least, no enchantment trigger and no whip value? Nyx-Fleece Ram: good early blocker, triggers constellation, no whip value? Herald of Torment: flying, good 3/3 for 3, enchantment trigger, some whip value? Pharika, God of Affliction: no early value, enchantment trigger, limited whip value? Or just drop the two souls and go with four Wayfinders?
Basically I run a very graveyard centric strategy, hence the two Nyx Weavers. I need things in the graveyard so I have choice as to what I can play.
One of the weaknesses of Whip decks is the number of early plays available to us. Satyr Wayfinder isn't an exciting card, but it serves a very impotant function in these lists, as it gives us something to do turn 2. If you want to run See the Unwritten, you probably also want to put Elvish Mystic in here. It helps with the problem you're having, and gets you to your business spells earlier as well. If I were to play your list and wanted to keep it's general strategy, I'd take out the 2 Nyx Weavers, and 2 Rescue from the Underworld for 4 Elvish Mystics. With Soul of Theros, See the Unwritten, and Hornet Queen all in the same deck, you're going to need the acceleration. Rescue from the Underworld is nice, but Whip of Erebos is generally sufficient for reanimation purposes.
Any other advice I give you will just be pushing you towards my list, but Whip decks need their support and set-up, and at the moment, you have too much stuff going on in the later game for the deck to function consistently.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I've been trying dropping the Weavers and Rescue and going with the four Satyrs and two Mystics instead and it does seem a lot better. Of course, half the time I'm getting Caryatid, Courser, Rhino in the opening hand, which I couldn't manage yesterday. But for when I don't, at least I have a chance. It's not as graveyard-y as I'm used to which is why I did the four Wayfinders instead of two, but it works very nicely. I have more of an alternative opening; Forest + Mystic -> Sandsteppe Citadel + Wayfinder -> Basic or Pain Land + Rhino. I really like it now, and it hasn't cost me any extra. Yet... I might want two more Llanowar Wastes now...
Still having nightmares about unblockable Frenzied Goblins with Titan's Strength on them though...