It's a Siege Rhino world and we're merely living in it.
Recently been meaning to jump on the Constellation train again, especially seeing as how under the radar this strategy is atm, with all the focus being around the Pro Tour and rightfully so. Jeskai and Abzan Midrange have established themselves as two key forces in the Metagame with UBx based control sure to be on the rise so naturally I thought I'd start there.
Taking inspiration from the Gb Devotion shells and various other Constellation lists I have a firm framework to work with although at this stage it's more theory and ideas than anything else.
Granted, this is just a rough draft and it's very possible that some inclusions and exclusions are wrong. From a glance I would like to run the list as is and then trim some numbers for either Hornet Queen or Elspeth to make comparisons. My only gripe with Elspeth and Walkers in general right now is that they do very little in the Jeskai MU while the Abzan Midrange lists are more than equiped to deal with them. Similarly Hornet Queen was mostly used to go over the other Midrange decks but just feels worse when you can actually use Extinguish all Hope. Doomwake Giant and Siege Rhino gives you inevitability against Hyper Aggro as well as Jeskai Burn, both being big butts that are difficult to burn out and both acting as critical stabilizers, although in different ways.
Extinguish all Hope acts as the biggest possible trump imaginable in grindy Midrange mirrors that are not prepared to deal with it and multiple copies should be hard for decks such as non black Gx Midrande to feasibly come back from. The deck DOES seem slightly soft to Stormbreath Dragon but between Downfall and Thoughtseize/Despise effects you should be able to beat it, will likely end up going down by 1 Banishing Light in favor of the 4th Downfall. Maybe Utter End is the better option?
UBx control seems the trickiest of the MU's unsurprisingly enough but you should be able to stay on par with them through Abzan Charm and Eidolon. Erebos seems very solid out of the board but in all honesty the UB decks just don't seem as powerful without Verdict and Revelation to pick up the slack. If multiple Vaults become the norm then Reclemation Sage seems like a excellent SB option to combat them.
Again, just ideas at this point but as a base I really like it at this point.
Rock on.
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It's a Siege Rhino world and we're merely living in it.
Recently been meaning to jump on the Constellation train again, especially seeing as how under the radar this strategy is atm, with all the focus being around the Pro Tour and rightfully so. Jeskai and Abzan Midrange have established themselves as two key forces in the Metagame with UBx based control sure to be on the rise so naturally I thought I'd start there.
Taking inspiration from the Gb Devotion shells and various other Constellation lists I have a firm framework to work with although at this stage it's more theory and ideas than anything else.
Granted, this is just a rough draft and it's very possible that some inclusions and exclusions are wrong. From a glance I would like to run the list as is and then trim some numbers for either Hornet Queen or Elspeth to make comparisons. My only gripe with Elspeth and Walkers in general right now is that they do very little in the Jeskai MU while the Abzan Midrange lists are more than equiped to deal with them. Similarly Hornet Queen was mostly used to go over the other Midrange decks but just feels worse when you can actually use Extinguish all Hope. Doomwake Giant and Siege Rhino gives you inevitability against Hyper Aggro as well as Jeskai Burn, both being big butts that are difficult to burn out and both acting as critical stabilizers, although in different ways.
Extinguish all Hope acts as the biggest possible trump imaginable in grindy Midrange mirrors that are not prepared to deal with it and multiple copies should be hard for decks such as non black Gx Midrande to feasibly come back from. The deck DOES seem slightly soft to Stormbreath Dragon but between Downfall and Thoughtseize/Despise effects you should be able to beat it, will likely end up going down by 1 Banishing Light in favor of the 4th Downfall. Maybe Utter End is the better option?
UBx control seems the trickiest of the MU's unsurprisingly enough but you should be able to stay on par with them through Abzan Charm and Eidolon. Erebos seems very solid out of the board but in all honesty the UB decks just don't seem as powerful without Verdict and Revelation to pick up the slack. If multiple Vaults become the norm then Reclemation Sage seems like a excellent SB option to combat them.
Again, just ideas at this point but as a base I really like it at this point.
Rock on.
I had actually just switched to running Siege Rhino in the mainboard. It's such a powerful card, even defensively, that my results immediately got better when I started running it. Adding it improved matchups across the board, especially against Jeskai Tempo, so I haven't looked back since then. This is where I'm at at the moment:
I had Extinguish All Hope in the maindeck for a while, but the popularity of GB Devotion lists that run a significant number of enchantments have made me wary of actually maindecking it. It isn't good against Jeskai Tempo, and it does kill our own Siege Rhinos. I might end up sideboarding it. Elspeth is in a somewhat awkward place right now, but she still has the raw power needed to make it right now, as few cards have her potential to just win a game by themselves like she does, and she's been working fine for me. I plan to test running 2 copies of Hornet Queen instead, just to see how that works out, as the Queen is a fantastic way to go over Abzan Midrange.
I'm sideboarding Abzan Charm because it's a huge help in the grindier matchups--Abzan Midrange, Control--but isn't quite as essential as Hero's Downfall and Banishing Light, so it fails to make the maindeck. Planeswalkers tend to be this deck's biggest enemy, so I want to run as many ways to deal with them as I can, and Stormbreath Dragon alone makes Hero's Downfall a solid pick for a 4-of for me. It's not super popular right now, but we can also just get slaughtered by it if we're unprepared.
As for specific matchups, I've gotten in a lot of testing against Abzan Midrange, Jeskai Tempo, and UB Control. Jeskai feels pretty good, as while they can just send numerous 4-damage spells at our face very quickly and kill us, we also have a significant amount of lifegain, Siege Rhino and Doomwake Giant are very good against them, and Brain Maggot and Thoughtseize help shield me from damage. Bile Blight, Bow of Nylea, and Thoughtseize come in against them. Abzan Charm as well, if they're on the very creature-heavy versions. Bow of Nylea, once it gets going, is very difficult for Jeskai Tempo to actually beat.
Abzan Midrange is essentially something of a mirror match. We both have similar amounts of removal, Siege Rhino, and Elspeth. They have an advantage in having a stronger aggressive plan, we have an advantage in having a stronger ability to grind out the game with Eidolon of Blossoms. Doomwake Giant is also handy against them, as it blocks Siege Rhino, kills Hornet Queen and Elspeth tokens, and his triggers allow our Siege Rhinos to attack into theirs. The matchup feels fairly even. Game 2 and 3, I ditch the Sylvan Caryatids for 3 Abzan Charm and 1 Thoughtseize, so that I have either more removal or more card draw, whicher I need to win this super grindy matchup.
UB Control is a problematic first game, so my sideboard reflects my weakness to it. Sometimes we can just get off an aggressive start with lots of disruption and just get there. Banishing Light is great for hitting their Perilous Vaults. Thanks to Eidolon, we can keep up somewhat, but while the matchup is by no means unwinnable, it's not in our favor. Game 2 and 3, however, feel amazing and my actual match record against UB Control is positive because Mistcutter Hydra accompanied by Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot is a very difficult threat for them to take care of. Abzan Charm's drawing capabilities puts us roughly on the same page as them in terms of gaining card advantage, and the pumping has been relevant for me when I'm just crashing in with a Mistcutter Hydra. Stain the Mind is also excellent, as if it resolves we can just name their finisher and remove their ability to actually win the game. Brain Maggot and Thoughtseize work well with it as well. I won a game because I cast a Banishing Light targeting their Pearl Lake Ancient, and after they bounced their lands to return it to their hand, I cast Stain the Mind to finish off the rest of their copies. Stain the Mind is in my sideboard primiarly as a possible way to deal with Jeskai Ascendancy combo, but it also works wonders in the control matchup, as resolving it can literally make them unable to actually win the game. Once, I also just cast Stain the Mind naming Hero's Downfall, just so that the two Mistcutter Hydras in my hand would be safer.
This deck is sort of in the middle of Abzan Midrange and GB Devotion, and I think it's pretty well positioned going forward, especially because people likely won't be packing Back to Nature in their sideboard. We'll come across some Erases, but 1-for-1s this deck isn't too worried about.
Going forward, I kind of hate Sylvan Caryatid right now, as it comes out against grindy matchups and is just in general a horrible topdeck, but I'm not sure I can actually afford to cut it. In this current metagame, it doesn't really block much. Monored is not much of an issue right now, it doesn't block anything against Abzan Midrange, and the only 2-drop from Jeskai Tempo, Seeker of the Way, easily punches through it. I've been considering Font of Fertility, as though it's a less powerful card, it has some advantages over Caryatid, if the body it provides is really just not important right now. If it comes down turn 1 and is popped turn 2, it essentially fufilled the same role. It's only worse if you topdeck it turn 2 and then can't actually use it. Otherwise, it can still lead to turn 3 Siege Rhinos and Eidolon of Blossoms, but lategame it's not a completely worthless topdeck. It gets a Constellation trigger, and has synergy with Courser of Kruphix, as it fetches a land to gain life and also works in the same way that the fetchlands do, in that you can use it to control your topdecks with a Courser of Kruphix out. It could just end up being less consistent than Sylvan Caryatid and then worth dropping, but I figure it's at least worth a look. Another possibility is going up to 26 lands and running 3 other spells. It may be that Caryatid could just be a necessary evil, but I cringe every time I see one on any turn but turn 2.
If I end up adding in Hornet Queen, Whip becomes very interesting. The Queen, Doomwake Giant, and Siege Rhino are very potent whip targets. I'm not sure what I'd cut for it. Maybe go down a maggot or something. It's definitely worth testing.
Does Erebos deserve a slot in our 75, dare I even say MB? The card seems backbreaking against Control and Siege Rhino mirrors. Randomly hosing Refuge lands, Seekers and Rocs seems really good right now.
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Does Erebos deserve a slot in our 75, dare I even say MB? The card seems backbreaking against Control and Siege Rhino mirrors. Randomly hosing Refuge lands, Seekers and Rocs seems really good right now.
I loved Erebos last standard against control, where he made Sphinx's Revelation much worse, let us keep up with Control's card advantage more easily, and was very difficult for them to deal with. I'm not sure how well he fares now, though. He's the most difficult god to turn into a creature, so we're basically running him for his lifegain hosing ability and his drawing ability. He's still probably great against Control, though Perilous Vault is annoying, but I don't think I like him very much against Siege Rhino decks, because though he can shut off their lifegain, that's also a turn we're spending not impacting the board or our hands at all. We need to kill their threats and stabilize, and Erebos doesn't really do that for us. I could definitely see him in the sideboard against Control, but I don't think he does quite enough work in the maindeck, especially given that he's a completely dead draw against a deck like Jeskai Tempo.
Do you generally favor Banishing Light over Abzan Charm, being enchantment based over the instant speed charm? Both seem relevant in most MU, with the Charm only really being harder to cast but being instant speed and more versatile as a result.
I agree on your points regarding Caryatid as this is something we have repeatedly discussed last season, and even then Caryatid was one of the under performers in these lists. If you could tweak the mana base to support it, then Bile Blight would be a fine replacement as it hits all the targets we care about early on on curve. You could also look to Suspension Field for a more interactive early game play as it is better against pretty much all the lists that Caryatid is horrid against aside from Tom Ross Aggro, and lets be honest Caryatid is never blocking in that MU anyway.
Any combination of Deathdealer/Fleecemane/Heir of the Wilds also look promising, with Heir in particular trading up with most things he goes into combat with. Granted, it could just be that Caryatid is making the most of a bad situation and that cutting it entirely would be completely wrong, despite the card seeming less and less useful of late.
Edit: I'm also liking Elspeth less and less, she's ineffective against Rocs and Hornet Queens and is a dud in the Jeskai MU for the most part unless you're ahead. Been trying out Hornet Queen myself and she just seems to be more relevant in non Control MU's so far and those are not only fewer in general, but can also be combatted with a sound post board strategy altogether.
Idk, thoughts?
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Do you generally favor Banishing Light over Abzan Charm, being enchantment based over the instant speed charm? Both seem relevant in most MU, with the Charm only really being harder to cast but being instant speed and more versatile as a result.
I agree on your points regarding Caryatid as this is something we have repeatedly discussed last season, and even then Caryatid was one of the under performers in these lists. If you could tweak the mana base to support it, then Bile Blight would be a fine replacement as it hits all the targets we care about early on on curve. You could also look to Suspension Field for a more interactive early game play as it is better against pretty much all the lists that Caryatid is horrid against aside from Tom Ross Aggro, and lets be honest Caryatid is never blocking in that MU anyway.
Any combination of Deathdealer/Fleecemane/Heir of the Wilds also look promising, with Heir in particular trading up with most things he goes into combat with. Granted, it could just be that Caryatid is making the most of a bad situation and that cutting it entirely would be completely wrong, despite the card seeming less and less useful of late.
Edit: I'm also liking Elspeth less and less, she's ineffective against Rocs and Hornet Queens and is a dud in the Jeskai MU for the most part unless you're ahead. Been trying out Hornet Queen myself and she just seems to be more relevant in non Control MU's so far and those are not only fewer in general, but can also be combatted with a sound post board strategy altogether.
Idk, thoughts?
I agree with your points against Elspeth, and I've since dropped her from my list. She's very powerful, but the metagame has evolved to beat her, so until that shifts again, it's probably best to just run other things. I'm currently going with Hornet Queen to accompany the 1-of Whip of Erebos I'm trying out in the deck.
I do prefer Banishing Light to Abzan Charm. Cantripping removal is just insane, and it can be hard for us to break through to kill Planeswalkers without Siege Rhino, so I like having ways to beat them directly. Despite being sorcery speed, it's actually weirdly better at answering Goblin Rabblemaster than Abzan Charm, because you don't have to wait for the Goblin to swing and therefore create another token. And though Abzan Charm is better in general against Control---it does hit Perilous Vault, which has been relevant for me.
And yeah, I'm not sure what to do about Caryatid. It'd be weird not to play Caryatid/Courser, and we can make use of the ramp. Turn 3 Siege Rhino/Eidolon of Blossoms is always pretty fantastic. It's just terrible every other turn other than the 2nd turn. I might try 26 land and Deathdealers, or perhaps another enchantment. Deathdealer appeals to me because he's useful at multiple points in the game. Having a 2-drop that can go toe-to-toe with a Siege Rhino is pretty appealing. I'll get in some testing today. I'm not sure if 26 land is actually correct, but I'd want to err on the side of having too much land once I lose a mana source. Like you said, Caryatid might just be the correct choice despite not feeling particularly good, but it's worth testing the deck out without it.
I'm curious who else here is thinking of Nyx-Fleece Ram as a viable response, not only to Rabble Red, but also to Rhino? Walls it all day and recoups the lost life almost before the Rhino even lands. It's not exactly a killer response but it's certainly not bad either IMO. I'd been boarding Rams primarily vs. Red, which has been fading in my local meta. But having tried bringing it in against decks packing Rhino, I've found that it does a pretty good job of nullifying their "ha ha I win now" bomb.
I'm curious who else here is thinking of Nyx-Fleece Ram as a viable response, not only to Rabble Red, but also to Rhino? Walls it all day and recoups the lost life almost before the Rhino even lands. It's not exactly a killer response but it's certainly not bad either IMO. I'd been boarding Rams primarily vs. Red, which has been fading in my local meta. But having tried bringing it in against decks packing Rhino, I've found that it does a pretty good job of nullifying their "ha ha I win now" bomb.
I actually ran Nyx-Fleece Ram in the maindeck for a while over Brain Maggot, but I ended up taking it out. Rabble Red is a deck on the decline, and while it was good against them, I actually wasn't a huge fan of it if only because it did very little against Goblin Rabblemaster. The Rabblemaster will eventually get big enough to punch through it while still building up attacking goblins, and War-Name Aspirant also just ignores it. It's basically only lifegain against Jeskai Tempo as well. Blocking Siege Rhino is pretty great, and it does some good work against Abzan Midrange, especially the aggressive versions. However, I'm not actually that fond of it as a sideboard card in this metagame. Against red decks, I want to side in things that can actually kill Goblin Rabblemaster. Bile Blight is my current choice because it also kills Mantis Rider and Brimaz if it's attacking into anything with any power. Against Abzan Midrange, while blocking Anafenza, and Siege Rhino is good, I'd rather just kill them with a Suspension Field or something before they're buffed by a Sorin activation or an Abzan Charm.
Admiral, I'm also curious if your opinion on Reaper of the Wilds has altered any in the new environment. In a world where everyone seems to want to make Siege Rhinos to reap immediate benefits (life swing), is there anything to be said for a similar creature (4/5 for 4) that requires a longer time investment to reap dividends? I guess Rhino is a better option if you plan to use Whip a lot, but I'm thinking that Reaper would love to be on the board when Hornet Queens are around.
Admiral, I'm also curious if your opinion on Reaper of the Wilds has altered any in the new environment. In a world where everyone seems to want to make Siege Rhinos to reap immediate benefits (life swing), is there anything to be said for a similar creature (4/5 for 4) that requires a longer time investment to reap dividends? I guess Rhino is a better option if you plan to use Whip a lot, but I'm thinking that Reaper would love to be on the board when Hornet Queens are around.
I still don't like Reaper of the Wilds in the maindeck, but the sideboard is another story. Reaper of the Wilds has that magical 5 toughness which means it doesn't die to Stoke the Flames, so it's actually pretty notable against Jeskai Tempo. They need to use two spells or trade a creature and a spell to kill Reaper of the Wilds, and if you can give it hexproof, it's essentially unkillable. It can eat Rabblemaster tokens all day and scry off of them. Additionally, the control decks in this standard aren't as good at sweeping anymore, and it was largely because of Supreme Verdict last standard that I didn't like siding in Reaper against control decks. Now that Control is worse at sweeping, Reaper of the Wilds could really do some work. Even if Perilous Vault is in play, Reaper can still at least force the opponent to use it, as it can keep attacking if you're holding up 1G. Being able to force a Vault activation during combat can be huge if you want to still play cards that turn. Additionally, it can't even be blocked profitably by Prognostic Sphinx, as it can gain deathtouch, and Pearl Lake Ancient can't block it well either. I think, as a sideboard card, Reaper of the Wilds has the possibility of being extremely well positioned right now. I'll be testing it out in the sideboard for Control,as a card that can be additionally added in against Jeskai Tempo.
As for myself, I've been trying a Caryatidless list, and I've found I like it a lot.
The deck loses some consistency in that the mana naturally becomes a little worse, but with Coursers, Eidolons, and Temples, I usually can find what I need. The deck functions pretty well at 3-4 mana anyways. The deck also gains a little bit of consistency because Rakshasa Deathdealer is a better card to play turn 3 onward, and is a very reasonable topdeck. It's been a fantastic card to have access to, and it's won me several games that Sylvan Caryatid could have never won me. Of course, there's been the odd game here and there where I'm stalled on mana and a Caryatid would have at least put me in the game, but I've found that I'm on average happier to see the Deathdealer than the Caryatid. It also gives this deck the ability to apply actual pressure, and also provides additional safety from Back to Nature. I was able to kill a Control deck once because the game went late, I had 8 mana, and I just kept applying pressure with the Deathdealer, pumping it twice and keeping 4 mana open in case they had the double kill spell, which it turned out they did. Being able to eat Goblin Rabblemaster tokens when you're on the draw is also very, very nice. I had the option of picking Deathdealer or Fleecemane Lion, and in the end I chose Deathdealer for a few reasons. 1) BG is easier for me to produce, 2)it's better on defenses as, with only 2 mana open, you can defend against ground threats, and 3)It can actually kill a Siege Rhino and live to tell the tale. Double pumping it or a single pump and a Doomwake Giant trigger will fell a Rhino. Additionally, it makes having a third turn tapland more bearable, as you can just use the leftover mana to pump up a Deathdealer and get in some extra damage. It's also slightly better against a lot of the field in general, as a Deathdealer with 2 mana open can block a Seeker of the Way and either pump to surpass it or regenerate, and a Fleecemane Lion with 2 mana open dies if the Jeskai player casts a spell. Against Control, Prognostic Sphinx and Pearl Lake Ancient can wall a monstrous Fleecemane Lion all day. Rakshasa Deathdealer can actually punch through either, provided enough mana. Additionally, with Perilous Vault being a very real card in that matchup, a monstrous Fleecemane Lion becomes even worse, as it could still be killed anyways.
Deathdealer's inclusion also led me to add in Pharika, God of Affliction, as it's now much easier to achieve Devotion with the Deathdealer, Rhino, Courser, and Eidolon all proviidng 2 devotion. Pharika also has obvious synergies with Eidolon of Blossoms and Doomwake Giant--Doomwake Giant in particular in combination with Pharika makes combat math horrendously difficult for the opponent. I've kept her out of other versions of the deck, but the inclusion of Siege Rhino and Deathdealer make her a lot more appealing. It is again, a good card against Back to Nature. I was running Whip of Erebos in it's place for a while, and while the card certainly did work, it's at something of an awkward place in the deck, as it will never get cast over an Eidolon or Siege Rhino against aggressive decks, and takes a considerable investment to get going in the first place. It comes in out of the sideboard against the decks where the static lifegain ability is very relevant, but otherwise Pharika is easier for this deck to play.
This version of the Archetype truly feels like a midrange deck. Doomwake Giant is better here, as having creatures that can actually attack into an opponent's field makes his incremental effect much better. Being able to go on the offense makes us better against Jeskai Tempo, as we can actually race them and give them less time to draw burn that will just annihilate us. We're better against Sarkhan, as we have more ways to attack it and Rakshasa Deathdealer can just finish the job by itself. We can have starts that are straight out of Abzan Midrange, going turn 1 Thoughtsieze into a Deathdealer into a Courser into a Siege Rhino, or we can take more a more defensive, card-advantage oriented tack by going for Eidolons, removal spells, and Doomwake Giants. Occasionally there are hands where you have both an Eidolon and a Siege Rhino, and you have to pick which central 4-drop to cast. It's usually pretty obvious which one you want. On the play, you usually want Eidolon of Blossoms, as you're probably not staring down anything huge just yet and it allows for more profitable follow-up turns. On the draw, however, Siege Rhino can stabilize a field and stare down other Siege Rhinos. And against aggro decks you probably just want to drop the Rhino first no matter what. Against Control, it's more complicated--if they're tapped out, Siege Rhino is definitely the pick, but if not, Eidolon has a better chance to sneak by their counterspells, and if they have an immediate removal spell, you still 2-for-1'ed them.
Another thing, while it's on my mind. I briefly had Chord of Calling in my decklist, but I took it out when I realized that the deck currently only had 4 total maindeck answers to Stormbreath Dragon, so I removed them for Silence the Believers, which also has added value now as Midrange decks pick up Boon Satyr and Herald of Torment to break through board stalls. It also singlehandedly answers a Wingmate Roc, though later than I'd like, and can kill Gods if they're animated.
However, I found that while testing the deck, I really liked having access to Chord of Calling. Usually by turn 5 this deck has enough creatures out that you can cast Chord of Calling to find a 4 drop easily. So I decided to try something that feels odd, but I think is the right move---cutting an Eidolon of Blossoms and a Doomwake Giant for two Chord of Callings. My rationale for this is that those two cards are generally the best targets for Chord of Calling in the first place, so if you're in a matchup where you really want to draw Doomwake Giant, you now have access to 4 possible cards that give you access to one as opposed to 3, and the same goes for Eidolon of Blossoms. Eidolon of Blossoms also has a bit of an issue with sharing a spot on the curve with Siege Rhino, and Chord of Calling alleviates that a little. Chord of Calling also makes it easier to have two of a single Constellation creature, which is incredibly powerful. It also makes the deck slightly more well-rounded, as there are matchups where drawing either Constellation creature isn't very good. Against aggro, Eidolon of Blossoms is underwhelming and Doomwake Giant is much more appealing, and against Control, you never want to see Doomwake Giant and Eidolon of Blossoms is essential for keeping up with CA. Chord of Calling additioanlly has other appealing targets in the deck. Siege Rhino is great when you want to go strongly on the offense, or you need the life gain. Doomwake Giant is better if you merely want board presence, but if you're racing, Siege Rhino is more valuable. Pharika can be tutored to accopmany a Constellation creature or provide a finisher, and even something as simple as a Brain Maggot during the draw step can ruin a player's turn completely.
If anything I'd say we are closer to the Gb Devotion lists and what separates us from those decks atm is additional ramp and See the Unwritten vs interaction and removal.
Both strategies have a constellation focus, with the Unwritten versions seeing more play/being popularized as the next logical step in Gx Devotions evolution and Courser/Eidolon/Doomwake still largely responsible for the overwhelming endgame the deck presents.
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@Blargenspargle: We're going to have some similarities to Abzan Midrange, and Siege Rhino is really just too good of a card not to run right now, if your deck can run it. I ended up going in a very different direction from the lists I posted earlier, but we're just likely going to have similar qualities in the deck to the decks that are popular now just because we're in Abzan.
@EpiCycle1: Drifting? I'm confused by what you mean by that. If you mean strategically, then yes, but playing a strategy that isn't optimal in this metagame for the sake of being true to a previous theme isn't really the best idea if you want to up your win rate. If you mean from playing Constellation in general, I don't really see what you mean, as that list I posted earlier has a high enchantment count, as Chord of Calling can often just be considered an enchantment for all intents and purposes.
@The Other Guy: I've actually been trying out See the Unwritten myself. I'm trying to test out all the possible avenues a Constellation deck can take in this metagame, so that I have a feel for what the archetype wants to be going forward, so now I'm trying out a list that's closer to G/b devotion. I don't have a concrete sideboard yet, as it keeps changing, but when I'm certain about my choices I'll add it in.
This list was inspired by a list that Jacob Van Lunen posted on Channel Fireball, and I decided to see what his list would look like with a heavier Constellation focus. Getting double Constellation triggers is pretty insane, as landing a double Doomwake Giant or Eidolon of Blossoms essentially wins you the game, giving -4/-4 to all your opponent's creatures or drawing 4 cards. The more I test this deck, the more I'm convinced that in this metagame, more threat-heavy Constellation decks are probably better, and the success of Gb devotion points to that. Constellation shines because it can provide an amazing amount of inevitability, and while it does work in a slower, controlling build, I think it gets better as one's list becomes more proactive. Doomwake Giant, for one, is much better when you have actual attacking creatures, as even getting one trigger pushes past creatures that would normally threaten to wall or trade with your creatures. Eidolon of Blossoms is pretty great when she's drawing you cards that will win the game, rather than prolong it. Whip of Erebos is really good when it's providing a mess of Constellation triggers by either entering the battlefield or bringing back Doomwake Giants. Banishing Light gives us interaction that Gb devotion generally doesn't have, while not feeling out of place in the deck because they generate Constellation triggers.
This deck has some draws that are just insane. I've gone turn 3 Doomwake Giant into turn 4 See the Unwritten for another Doomwake Giant and an Eidolon of Blossoms, sweeping my opponent's field and drawing two cards. Whip of Erebos works so amazingly in this build, as it triggers Constellation two ways, and can bring back things that were dumped from See the Unwritten. The lifegain also just makes certain matchups incredibly in our favor, as a deck like Jeskai Tempo is hard pressed to beat a start that goes turn 3 Siege Rhino into turn 4 Whip of Erebos. This deck has the bulk and removal to go head to head with the midrange strategies of the format, but it sacrifices aggression for the ability to just overwhelm the opponent in the late game. Eidolon of Blossoms is at her absolute best in this build, as See the Unwritten can provide an insane number of triggers.
I usually want to play the most controlling deck I possibly can, but I don't think that the optimal Constellation build will be that this time around, at least not in this current metagame. My current list is definitely in some weird place between being a G/b Devotion deck and a Constellation deck. If decks like Jeskai Ascendancy Combo and Control decks begin to become a huge part of the metagame, traditional Constellation is likely the better choice thanks to it's amount of disruption, but while Abzan Midrange and Jeskai Tempo are popular, this list feels very strong.
Some very interesting Constellation-based decks top 8'd the most recent Grand Prix, decks with a most graveyard-focused plan. One deck looked more like a typical Constellation deck, with Brain Maggots and Pharika, while the other went deeper into the graveyard theme, with See the Unwritten and 3 Whip of Erebos as opposed to two.
I've been really liking See the Unwritten, and with the success of these lists, I'll definitely have to take a look into playing the deck without white. Siege Rhino is nice for stabilizing, but going up on Whip of Erebos and running Commune with the Gods might just be the way to go going forward, as Whip has been absolutely amazing for me. Notably, it allows us to race decks that run Stormbreath Dragon. I've been liking having access to Banishing Light and Siege Rhino, but it could very well be worth just dropping them for some more consistency.
I cleaned up the first page somewhat to reflect what's been doing well recently. I've been playing a list similar to the one in the OP, but I've recently made a few changes that I'm trying out.
While playing this deck, I found that sometimes I would just lose because I had too many cards that just didn't do anything by themselves. Having twelve additional sources of mana (counting Satyr Wayfinder as one) felt excessive, so I'm currently trying taking out 4 Sylvan Caryatid for 3 Rakshasa Deathdealers and a 23rd land. I kept in Elvish Mystic over Caryatid, as it gives us a possible turn 1 play that allows for turn 2 Pharika or Courser of Kruphix, and doesn't interfere with casting an early Wayfinder or Commune with the Gods. Deathdealer lets us start applying some pressure earlier on in the game, and is a card that isn't awful as a late game topdeck. He's also better than most 2-drops as a Whip of Erebos target because you can pump him additionally if you're doing this later on and deal even more damage and gain more life. It makes Whip of Erebos better in general because it gives you another source of damage, one that can scale to take advantage of the lifegain, and it also provides 2 devotion to Pharika. I'm trying out two copies of her for now, just to see what that's like.
My sideboard is in flux, but I've become very fond of Stain the Mind. While useless against many decks, it's very potent against our absolute worst matchups. We can't put a good clock on the combo decks, and while adding Thoughtseize helps, it's not always going to be enough--but Stain the Mind can neuter them completely. It also is very good against control, as they often run multiple copies of a single finisher. I won game 3 against a UB control deck once on turn 3, simply because I went turn 1 Elvish Mystic, turn 2 Coruser of Kruphix, turn 3 tap them both to convoke out a Stain the Mind turn 3 naming Prognostic Sphinx---that completely took them out of the game, leaving them with only removal spells and draw spells, ensuring that even if it took me a while to get there, they couldn't actually win the game. I've been surprised to see it not showing up more, as a combo deck is a real possible threat in standard, and GB Constellation is notoriously weak against it.
How about the GP winning deck that went Abzan and combined Siege Rhino with whip and Doomwake Giant? I'm running BG now, but seriously considering adding white:
How about the GP winning deck that went Abzan and combined Siege Rhino with whip and Doomwake Giant? I'm running BG now, but seriously considering adding white:
I thought that list looked pretty interesting. I don't love the fewer copies of Eidolon of Blossoms, and I'm not really sold on Soul of Theros either. It seems like it'd be pretty excellent when you can swing a bunch of pumped Hornet Queen tokens into the opponent, and any activation of it should wrap up a game if you have a decent board presence. The deck definitely has some crazy late game power, so I guess the consideration is whether or not the power is worth losing some of the consistency of the BG versions. One of the strengths of this archetype is already how it can spiral out of control in the late game, so while I'm sure that that list is strong---obviously, it won a GP---I think I might prefer some consistency. But it's definitely worth some testing.
I apologize if this has been asked elsewhere, but any thoughts about the variants and what works best?
B/G Devotion vs. Sultai (Sidisi, Sagu Mauler, some countering)
B/G Devotion vs. Abzan (Siege Rhino, Banishing Light, sometimes Elspeth, etc.)
Sidisi seems like a lot of fun, but I'm not sure how often you want to hold mana open for counter spells. Sagu Mauler seems good too.
The idea of using Whip on a Siege Rhino also seems like a good time. Banishing Light is just more triggering for Eidolon.
But maybe staying straight BG lends to more consistent mana and staying more focused with card selection overall.
I apologize if this has been asked elsewhere, but any thoughts about the variants and what works best?
B/G Devotion vs. Sultai (Sidisi, Sagu Mauler, some countering)
B/G Devotion vs. Abzan (Siege Rhino, Banishing Light, sometimes Elspeth, etc.)
Sidisi seems like a lot of fun, but I'm not sure how often you want to hold mana open for counter spells. Sagu Mauler seems good too.
The idea of using Whip on a Siege Rhino also seems like a good time. Banishing Light is just more triggering for Eidolon.
But maybe staying straight BG lends to more consistent mana and staying more focused with card selection overall.
Hey, Corpsetrader. While I do think Sidisi Whip decks are good, I think they probably wouldn't be Constellation decks, as Sidisi makes the archetype want to do something very different. As for Abzan, I'm currently trying it out, splashing white for Siege Rhino and Banishing Light, with Erase out of the sideboard. I'm liking this version a lot, as the splash is light enough that it doesn't negatively affect the consistency of the deck too much, and gives us access to what is probably the second best Whip of Erebos target in the current standard. Banishing Light over Murderous Cut also gives us more constellation triggers, and Banishing Light can be found with Commune with the Gods. ?It gives us a boost against the aggressive decks, as simply running Siege Rhino is huge game against them. If I can go turn 3 Siege Rhino into turn 4 Whip of Erebos the game is pretty much just over.
I'm not playing Soul of Theros at the moment, becuase while I do feel like it makes the deck more powerful, it does hurt the deck's consistency. This deck's resilience and late game power are huge enough that I've never really felt the need to make those elements even more potent at the cost of consistency.
Additionally, I've been loving Pharika, God of Affliction lately. Siege Rhino provides 2 devotion for her, and this deck is pretty permanent heavy. She lets us put to use all the Wayfinders, Mystics, and Caryatids that get dumped into the graveyard that Whip of Erebos isn't interested in, act as an excellent source of Constellation triggers, make attacking us on the ground extremely difficult, and be a 5/5 indestructible beater. As Whip of Erebos decks get more popular, Pharika will get better as well, because I can use her to remove Whip targets in response to the activation, and remove the Souls before they can be used. Sure, the opponent will get 1/1 deathtouch snakes for their troubles, but we're running Doomwake Giant, so those aren't a big issue. She's bad against aggressive decks, but excellent in the many midrange matchups we'll come up against, as well as against Control, where she ducks under Disdainful Stroke and is difficult to remove. Last standard, she was unimpressive against control because her army of 1/1s could be walled forever by Jace, Architect of Thought, but that isn't the case anymore.
Thanks for the reply. I actually ended up sleeving up Abzan, pretty much mentioning what you did minus the banishing lights (I left the murderous cuts in). I did that earlier today before I saw your reply. I played some games against Jeskai and it seemed favorable, but not lopsided. Overall a lot of fun. I think my only white card was Siege Rhino, but I think the sideboard needs more tuning. Mana wasn't hurt since there are only a few white sources.
I decided against blue for the reasons you mentioned as well. The enchantment theme starts to fall apart, and I don't think you want to be holding mana open with this deck for counter magic.
Key points: This list goes a little bigger than some like Blohon, cutting the Brain Maggot for another whip and doomwake.
Whip of Erebros is the card that makes this better than the GR versions to my mind, since the incidental lifegain saves us vs burn decks, while the reanimation lets us go long vs more ponderous decks.
The SB is still very much a work in progress. I feel like I know when I want Arbor Colossus (vs Mantis Rider) Thoughtseize and Nissa, Worldwaker are both good vs random control decks.
Pharika is good vs other GY decks, while Doomwake is good vs attrition.
The spot removal in the SB is the question mark for me. I feel like I would prefer to have something like Agent of Erebos that is more narrow but more useful. Or enchantment removal. Maybe Unravel the Aether or Consign to Dust?
Key points: This list goes a little bigger than some like Blohon, cutting the Brain Maggot for another whip and doomwake.
Whip of Erebros is the card that makes this better than the GR versions to my mind, since the incidental lifegain saves us vs burn decks, while the reanimation lets us go long vs more ponderous decks.
The SB is still very much a work in progress. I feel like I know when I want Arbor Colossus (vs Mantis Rider) Thoughtseize and Nissa, Worldwaker are both good vs random control decks.
Pharika is good vs other GY decks, while Doomwake is good vs attrition.
The spot removal in the SB is the question mark for me. I feel like I would prefer to have something like Agent of Erebos that is more narrow but more useful. Or enchantment removal. Maybe Unravel the Aether or Consign to Dust?
What other SB cards have people found useful?
Hey, magicmerl.
I liked Brain Maggot in the more controlling Constellation lists, but I definitely agree that this isn't the place for it.
I'm a fan of having some enchantment removal in the sideboard right now. Hitting Jeskai Ascendancy is pretty important, as we're kind of terrible against that deck, and enchantment removal has some extra functionality in that it's a good sideboard card for the mirror. I personally use Erase as my go-to enchantment removal, being in white, but in green I'd definitely go for the cheaper option. Consign to Dust is better against Constellation, Unravel the AEther is better against Jeskai Ascendancy Combo, so it's really whichever deck you're more concerned with. Agent of Erebos is a card I've used before, and while it works, Pharika is usually sufficient graveyard hate for me, especially with Commune with the Gods making it easier to find her.
I'm not a huge fan of spot removal in the sideboard, but I do run some---2 Murderous Cuts. I don't want to hold up mana for removal as much as possible. Banishing Light, as my maindeck removal, is worth it only because it can kill 'walkers and provide Constellation triggers. Otherwise, I rarely want to be the person holding up mana for Hero's Downfall in order to deal with a possible threat. Casting Murderous Cut for 1B or B turn 3 isn't that hard--Commune with the Gods enables it by itself--and if you have to delve away possible threats in order to kill a relevant threat, then so be it. I run them for the Jeskai Heroic deck, possibly Stormbreath Dragon, and for Jeskai Tempo--I want to make sure I have answers for Mantis Rider, as it can randomly take games if I don't draw a Whip, and Hushwing Gryff, if they're running it, can slow this deck down a lot. Without Banishing Light, though, I could definitely see running Hero's Downfall for it's planeswalker-killing abilities, should that be relevant.
I'm not sure that 4 Erase is the right number, but Jeskai Ascendancy is such a bad matchup that I don't feel bad adding them, especially as they have added utility in the mirror or any deck relying on Whip of Erebos. Other than the Erases, the sideboard is pretty self-explanatory. With Siege Rhino in the deck, the matchup against Jeskai Tempo is improved, but I still want Arbor Colossus to hold out against Mantis Riders, Wingmate Rocs, and Stormbreath Dragon. The Rhino also helps out against Control, as it is not only a threat they must remove, but even in the graveyard, thanks to Whip of Erebos, it represents a possible 3 life they'll lose, if you can bring them low enough.
Recently been meaning to jump on the Constellation train again, especially seeing as how under the radar this strategy is atm, with all the focus being around the Pro Tour and rightfully so. Jeskai and Abzan Midrange have established themselves as two key forces in the Metagame with UBx based control sure to be on the rise so naturally I thought I'd start there.
Taking inspiration from the Gb Devotion shells and various other Constellation lists I have a firm framework to work with although at this stage it's more theory and ideas than anything else.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Brain Maggot
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Siege Rhino
4 Doomwake Giant
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Abzan CharmS
2 Banishing Light
3 Thoughtseize
1 Extinguish all Hope
Lands 24
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forrest
1 Plains
3 Lianowar Waste
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Granted, this is just a rough draft and it's very possible that some inclusions and exclusions are wrong. From a glance I would like to run the list as is and then trim some numbers for either Hornet Queen or Elspeth to make comparisons. My only gripe with Elspeth and Walkers in general right now is that they do very little in the Jeskai MU while the Abzan Midrange lists are more than equiped to deal with them. Similarly Hornet Queen was mostly used to go over the other Midrange decks but just feels worse when you can actually use Extinguish all Hope. Doomwake Giant and Siege Rhino gives you inevitability against Hyper Aggro as well as Jeskai Burn, both being big butts that are difficult to burn out and both acting as critical stabilizers, although in different ways.
Extinguish all Hope acts as the biggest possible trump imaginable in grindy Midrange mirrors that are not prepared to deal with it and multiple copies should be hard for decks such as non black Gx Midrande to feasibly come back from. The deck DOES seem slightly soft to Stormbreath Dragon but between Downfall and Thoughtseize/Despise effects you should be able to beat it, will likely end up going down by 1 Banishing Light in favor of the 4th Downfall. Maybe Utter End is the better option?
UBx control seems the trickiest of the MU's unsurprisingly enough but you should be able to stay on par with them through Abzan Charm and Eidolon. Erebos seems very solid out of the board but in all honesty the UB decks just don't seem as powerful without Verdict and Revelation to pick up the slack. If multiple Vaults become the norm then Reclemation Sage seems like a excellent SB option to combat them.
Again, just ideas at this point but as a base I really like it at this point.
Rock on.
I had actually just switched to running Siege Rhino in the mainboard. It's such a powerful card, even defensively, that my results immediately got better when I started running it. Adding it improved matchups across the board, especially against Jeskai Tempo, so I haven't looked back since then. This is where I'm at at the moment:
3 Brain Maggot
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Doomwake Giant
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Enchantments
4 Banishing Light
Instants/Sorceries
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
land
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Malady
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Bow of Nylea
3 Abzan Charm
2 Bile Blight
2 Erase
3 Stain the Mind
1 Thoughtseize
I had Extinguish All Hope in the maindeck for a while, but the popularity of GB Devotion lists that run a significant number of enchantments have made me wary of actually maindecking it. It isn't good against Jeskai Tempo, and it does kill our own Siege Rhinos. I might end up sideboarding it. Elspeth is in a somewhat awkward place right now, but she still has the raw power needed to make it right now, as few cards have her potential to just win a game by themselves like she does, and she's been working fine for me. I plan to test running 2 copies of Hornet Queen instead, just to see how that works out, as the Queen is a fantastic way to go over Abzan Midrange.
I'm sideboarding Abzan Charm because it's a huge help in the grindier matchups--Abzan Midrange, Control--but isn't quite as essential as Hero's Downfall and Banishing Light, so it fails to make the maindeck. Planeswalkers tend to be this deck's biggest enemy, so I want to run as many ways to deal with them as I can, and Stormbreath Dragon alone makes Hero's Downfall a solid pick for a 4-of for me. It's not super popular right now, but we can also just get slaughtered by it if we're unprepared.
As for specific matchups, I've gotten in a lot of testing against Abzan Midrange, Jeskai Tempo, and UB Control. Jeskai feels pretty good, as while they can just send numerous 4-damage spells at our face very quickly and kill us, we also have a significant amount of lifegain, Siege Rhino and Doomwake Giant are very good against them, and Brain Maggot and Thoughtseize help shield me from damage. Bile Blight, Bow of Nylea, and Thoughtseize come in against them. Abzan Charm as well, if they're on the very creature-heavy versions. Bow of Nylea, once it gets going, is very difficult for Jeskai Tempo to actually beat.
Abzan Midrange is essentially something of a mirror match. We both have similar amounts of removal, Siege Rhino, and Elspeth. They have an advantage in having a stronger aggressive plan, we have an advantage in having a stronger ability to grind out the game with Eidolon of Blossoms. Doomwake Giant is also handy against them, as it blocks Siege Rhino, kills Hornet Queen and Elspeth tokens, and his triggers allow our Siege Rhinos to attack into theirs. The matchup feels fairly even. Game 2 and 3, I ditch the Sylvan Caryatids for 3 Abzan Charm and 1 Thoughtseize, so that I have either more removal or more card draw, whicher I need to win this super grindy matchup.
UB Control is a problematic first game, so my sideboard reflects my weakness to it. Sometimes we can just get off an aggressive start with lots of disruption and just get there. Banishing Light is great for hitting their Perilous Vaults. Thanks to Eidolon, we can keep up somewhat, but while the matchup is by no means unwinnable, it's not in our favor. Game 2 and 3, however, feel amazing and my actual match record against UB Control is positive because Mistcutter Hydra accompanied by Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot is a very difficult threat for them to take care of. Abzan Charm's drawing capabilities puts us roughly on the same page as them in terms of gaining card advantage, and the pumping has been relevant for me when I'm just crashing in with a Mistcutter Hydra. Stain the Mind is also excellent, as if it resolves we can just name their finisher and remove their ability to actually win the game. Brain Maggot and Thoughtseize work well with it as well. I won a game because I cast a Banishing Light targeting their Pearl Lake Ancient, and after they bounced their lands to return it to their hand, I cast Stain the Mind to finish off the rest of their copies. Stain the Mind is in my sideboard primiarly as a possible way to deal with Jeskai Ascendancy combo, but it also works wonders in the control matchup, as resolving it can literally make them unable to actually win the game. Once, I also just cast Stain the Mind naming Hero's Downfall, just so that the two Mistcutter Hydras in my hand would be safer.
This deck is sort of in the middle of Abzan Midrange and GB Devotion, and I think it's pretty well positioned going forward, especially because people likely won't be packing Back to Nature in their sideboard. We'll come across some Erases, but 1-for-1s this deck isn't too worried about.
Going forward, I kind of hate Sylvan Caryatid right now, as it comes out against grindy matchups and is just in general a horrible topdeck, but I'm not sure I can actually afford to cut it. In this current metagame, it doesn't really block much. Monored is not much of an issue right now, it doesn't block anything against Abzan Midrange, and the only 2-drop from Jeskai Tempo, Seeker of the Way, easily punches through it. I've been considering Font of Fertility, as though it's a less powerful card, it has some advantages over Caryatid, if the body it provides is really just not important right now. If it comes down turn 1 and is popped turn 2, it essentially fufilled the same role. It's only worse if you topdeck it turn 2 and then can't actually use it. Otherwise, it can still lead to turn 3 Siege Rhinos and Eidolon of Blossoms, but lategame it's not a completely worthless topdeck. It gets a Constellation trigger, and has synergy with Courser of Kruphix, as it fetches a land to gain life and also works in the same way that the fetchlands do, in that you can use it to control your topdecks with a Courser of Kruphix out. It could just end up being less consistent than Sylvan Caryatid and then worth dropping, but I figure it's at least worth a look. Another possibility is going up to 26 lands and running 3 other spells. It may be that Caryatid could just be a necessary evil, but I cringe every time I see one on any turn but turn 2.
I loved Erebos last standard against control, where he made Sphinx's Revelation much worse, let us keep up with Control's card advantage more easily, and was very difficult for them to deal with. I'm not sure how well he fares now, though. He's the most difficult god to turn into a creature, so we're basically running him for his lifegain hosing ability and his drawing ability. He's still probably great against Control, though Perilous Vault is annoying, but I don't think I like him very much against Siege Rhino decks, because though he can shut off their lifegain, that's also a turn we're spending not impacting the board or our hands at all. We need to kill their threats and stabilize, and Erebos doesn't really do that for us. I could definitely see him in the sideboard against Control, but I don't think he does quite enough work in the maindeck, especially given that he's a completely dead draw against a deck like Jeskai Tempo.
I agree on your points regarding Caryatid as this is something we have repeatedly discussed last season, and even then Caryatid was one of the under performers in these lists. If you could tweak the mana base to support it, then Bile Blight would be a fine replacement as it hits all the targets we care about early on on curve. You could also look to Suspension Field for a more interactive early game play as it is better against pretty much all the lists that Caryatid is horrid against aside from Tom Ross Aggro, and lets be honest Caryatid is never blocking in that MU anyway.
Any combination of Deathdealer/Fleecemane/Heir of the Wilds also look promising, with Heir in particular trading up with most things he goes into combat with. Granted, it could just be that Caryatid is making the most of a bad situation and that cutting it entirely would be completely wrong, despite the card seeming less and less useful of late.
Edit: I'm also liking Elspeth less and less, she's ineffective against Rocs and Hornet Queens and is a dud in the Jeskai MU for the most part unless you're ahead. Been trying out Hornet Queen myself and she just seems to be more relevant in non Control MU's so far and those are not only fewer in general, but can also be combatted with a sound post board strategy altogether.
Idk, thoughts?
I agree with your points against Elspeth, and I've since dropped her from my list. She's very powerful, but the metagame has evolved to beat her, so until that shifts again, it's probably best to just run other things. I'm currently going with Hornet Queen to accompany the 1-of Whip of Erebos I'm trying out in the deck.
I do prefer Banishing Light to Abzan Charm. Cantripping removal is just insane, and it can be hard for us to break through to kill Planeswalkers without Siege Rhino, so I like having ways to beat them directly. Despite being sorcery speed, it's actually weirdly better at answering Goblin Rabblemaster than Abzan Charm, because you don't have to wait for the Goblin to swing and therefore create another token. And though Abzan Charm is better in general against Control---it does hit Perilous Vault, which has been relevant for me.
And yeah, I'm not sure what to do about Caryatid. It'd be weird not to play Caryatid/Courser, and we can make use of the ramp. Turn 3 Siege Rhino/Eidolon of Blossoms is always pretty fantastic. It's just terrible every other turn other than the 2nd turn. I might try 26 land and Deathdealers, or perhaps another enchantment. Deathdealer appeals to me because he's useful at multiple points in the game. Having a 2-drop that can go toe-to-toe with a Siege Rhino is pretty appealing. I'll get in some testing today. I'm not sure if 26 land is actually correct, but I'd want to err on the side of having too much land once I lose a mana source. Like you said, Caryatid might just be the correct choice despite not feeling particularly good, but it's worth testing the deck out without it.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
I actually ran Nyx-Fleece Ram in the maindeck for a while over Brain Maggot, but I ended up taking it out. Rabble Red is a deck on the decline, and while it was good against them, I actually wasn't a huge fan of it if only because it did very little against Goblin Rabblemaster. The Rabblemaster will eventually get big enough to punch through it while still building up attacking goblins, and War-Name Aspirant also just ignores it. It's basically only lifegain against Jeskai Tempo as well. Blocking Siege Rhino is pretty great, and it does some good work against Abzan Midrange, especially the aggressive versions. However, I'm not actually that fond of it as a sideboard card in this metagame. Against red decks, I want to side in things that can actually kill Goblin Rabblemaster. Bile Blight is my current choice because it also kills Mantis Rider and Brimaz if it's attacking into anything with any power. Against Abzan Midrange, while blocking Anafenza, and Siege Rhino is good, I'd rather just kill them with a Suspension Field or something before they're buffed by a Sorin activation or an Abzan Charm.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
I still don't like Reaper of the Wilds in the maindeck, but the sideboard is another story. Reaper of the Wilds has that magical 5 toughness which means it doesn't die to Stoke the Flames, so it's actually pretty notable against Jeskai Tempo. They need to use two spells or trade a creature and a spell to kill Reaper of the Wilds, and if you can give it hexproof, it's essentially unkillable. It can eat Rabblemaster tokens all day and scry off of them. Additionally, the control decks in this standard aren't as good at sweeping anymore, and it was largely because of Supreme Verdict last standard that I didn't like siding in Reaper against control decks. Now that Control is worse at sweeping, Reaper of the Wilds could really do some work. Even if Perilous Vault is in play, Reaper can still at least force the opponent to use it, as it can keep attacking if you're holding up 1G. Being able to force a Vault activation during combat can be huge if you want to still play cards that turn. Additionally, it can't even be blocked profitably by Prognostic Sphinx, as it can gain deathtouch, and Pearl Lake Ancient can't block it well either. I think, as a sideboard card, Reaper of the Wilds has the possibility of being extremely well positioned right now. I'll be testing it out in the sideboard for Control,as a card that can be additionally added in against Jeskai Tempo.
As for myself, I've been trying a Caryatidless list, and I've found I like it a lot.
3 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Brain Maggot
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Siege Rhino
3 Doomwake Giant
Enchantments
4 Banishing Light
Instants/Sorceries
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Silence the Believers
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Thoughtseize
2 Erase
3 Bile Blight
1 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Stain the Mind
The deck loses some consistency in that the mana naturally becomes a little worse, but with Coursers, Eidolons, and Temples, I usually can find what I need. The deck functions pretty well at 3-4 mana anyways. The deck also gains a little bit of consistency because Rakshasa Deathdealer is a better card to play turn 3 onward, and is a very reasonable topdeck. It's been a fantastic card to have access to, and it's won me several games that Sylvan Caryatid could have never won me. Of course, there's been the odd game here and there where I'm stalled on mana and a Caryatid would have at least put me in the game, but I've found that I'm on average happier to see the Deathdealer than the Caryatid. It also gives this deck the ability to apply actual pressure, and also provides additional safety from Back to Nature. I was able to kill a Control deck once because the game went late, I had 8 mana, and I just kept applying pressure with the Deathdealer, pumping it twice and keeping 4 mana open in case they had the double kill spell, which it turned out they did. Being able to eat Goblin Rabblemaster tokens when you're on the draw is also very, very nice. I had the option of picking Deathdealer or Fleecemane Lion, and in the end I chose Deathdealer for a few reasons. 1) BG is easier for me to produce, 2)it's better on defenses as, with only 2 mana open, you can defend against ground threats, and 3)It can actually kill a Siege Rhino and live to tell the tale. Double pumping it or a single pump and a Doomwake Giant trigger will fell a Rhino. Additionally, it makes having a third turn tapland more bearable, as you can just use the leftover mana to pump up a Deathdealer and get in some extra damage. It's also slightly better against a lot of the field in general, as a Deathdealer with 2 mana open can block a Seeker of the Way and either pump to surpass it or regenerate, and a Fleecemane Lion with 2 mana open dies if the Jeskai player casts a spell. Against Control, Prognostic Sphinx and Pearl Lake Ancient can wall a monstrous Fleecemane Lion all day. Rakshasa Deathdealer can actually punch through either, provided enough mana. Additionally, with Perilous Vault being a very real card in that matchup, a monstrous Fleecemane Lion becomes even worse, as it could still be killed anyways.
Deathdealer's inclusion also led me to add in Pharika, God of Affliction, as it's now much easier to achieve Devotion with the Deathdealer, Rhino, Courser, and Eidolon all proviidng 2 devotion. Pharika also has obvious synergies with Eidolon of Blossoms and Doomwake Giant--Doomwake Giant in particular in combination with Pharika makes combat math horrendously difficult for the opponent. I've kept her out of other versions of the deck, but the inclusion of Siege Rhino and Deathdealer make her a lot more appealing. It is again, a good card against Back to Nature. I was running Whip of Erebos in it's place for a while, and while the card certainly did work, it's at something of an awkward place in the deck, as it will never get cast over an Eidolon or Siege Rhino against aggressive decks, and takes a considerable investment to get going in the first place. It comes in out of the sideboard against the decks where the static lifegain ability is very relevant, but otherwise Pharika is easier for this deck to play.
This version of the Archetype truly feels like a midrange deck. Doomwake Giant is better here, as having creatures that can actually attack into an opponent's field makes his incremental effect much better. Being able to go on the offense makes us better against Jeskai Tempo, as we can actually race them and give them less time to draw burn that will just annihilate us. We're better against Sarkhan, as we have more ways to attack it and Rakshasa Deathdealer can just finish the job by itself. We can have starts that are straight out of Abzan Midrange, going turn 1 Thoughtsieze into a Deathdealer into a Courser into a Siege Rhino, or we can take more a more defensive, card-advantage oriented tack by going for Eidolons, removal spells, and Doomwake Giants. Occasionally there are hands where you have both an Eidolon and a Siege Rhino, and you have to pick which central 4-drop to cast. It's usually pretty obvious which one you want. On the play, you usually want Eidolon of Blossoms, as you're probably not staring down anything huge just yet and it allows for more profitable follow-up turns. On the draw, however, Siege Rhino can stabilize a field and stare down other Siege Rhinos. And against aggro decks you probably just want to drop the Rhino first no matter what. Against Control, it's more complicated--if they're tapped out, Siege Rhino is definitely the pick, but if not, Eidolon has a better chance to sneak by their counterspells, and if they have an immediate removal spell, you still 2-for-1'ed them.
However, I found that while testing the deck, I really liked having access to Chord of Calling. Usually by turn 5 this deck has enough creatures out that you can cast Chord of Calling to find a 4 drop easily. So I decided to try something that feels odd, but I think is the right move---cutting an Eidolon of Blossoms and a Doomwake Giant for two Chord of Callings. My rationale for this is that those two cards are generally the best targets for Chord of Calling in the first place, so if you're in a matchup where you really want to draw Doomwake Giant, you now have access to 4 possible cards that give you access to one as opposed to 3, and the same goes for Eidolon of Blossoms. Eidolon of Blossoms also has a bit of an issue with sharing a spot on the curve with Siege Rhino, and Chord of Calling alleviates that a little. Chord of Calling also makes it easier to have two of a single Constellation creature, which is incredibly powerful. It also makes the deck slightly more well-rounded, as there are matchups where drawing either Constellation creature isn't very good. Against aggro, Eidolon of Blossoms is underwhelming and Doomwake Giant is much more appealing, and against Control, you never want to see Doomwake Giant and Eidolon of Blossoms is essential for keeping up with CA. Chord of Calling additioanlly has other appealing targets in the deck. Siege Rhino is great when you want to go strongly on the offense, or you need the life gain. Doomwake Giant is better if you merely want board presence, but if you're racing, Siege Rhino is more valuable. Pharika can be tutored to accopmany a Constellation creature or provide a finisher, and even something as simple as a Brain Maggot during the draw step can ruin a player's turn completely.
I'll test this out and see where it takes me.
Both strategies have a constellation focus, with the Unwritten versions seeing more play/being popularized as the next logical step in Gx Devotions evolution and Courser/Eidolon/Doomwake still largely responsible for the overwhelming endgame the deck presents.
@EpiCycle1: Drifting? I'm confused by what you mean by that. If you mean strategically, then yes, but playing a strategy that isn't optimal in this metagame for the sake of being true to a previous theme isn't really the best idea if you want to up your win rate. If you mean from playing Constellation in general, I don't really see what you mean, as that list I posted earlier has a high enchantment count, as Chord of Calling can often just be considered an enchantment for all intents and purposes.
@The Other Guy: I've actually been trying out See the Unwritten myself. I'm trying to test out all the possible avenues a Constellation deck can take in this metagame, so that I have a feel for what the archetype wants to be going forward, so now I'm trying out a list that's closer to G/b devotion. I don't have a concrete sideboard yet, as it keeps changing, but when I'm certain about my choices I'll add it in.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Siege Rhino
4 Doomwake Giant
2 Hornet Queen
4 Banishing Light
2 Whip of Erebos
Instants/Sorceries
4 See the Unwritten
Land
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Mana Confluence
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Temple of Malady
4 Windswept Heath
This list was inspired by a list that Jacob Van Lunen posted on Channel Fireball, and I decided to see what his list would look like with a heavier Constellation focus. Getting double Constellation triggers is pretty insane, as landing a double Doomwake Giant or Eidolon of Blossoms essentially wins you the game, giving -4/-4 to all your opponent's creatures or drawing 4 cards. The more I test this deck, the more I'm convinced that in this metagame, more threat-heavy Constellation decks are probably better, and the success of Gb devotion points to that. Constellation shines because it can provide an amazing amount of inevitability, and while it does work in a slower, controlling build, I think it gets better as one's list becomes more proactive. Doomwake Giant, for one, is much better when you have actual attacking creatures, as even getting one trigger pushes past creatures that would normally threaten to wall or trade with your creatures. Eidolon of Blossoms is pretty great when she's drawing you cards that will win the game, rather than prolong it. Whip of Erebos is really good when it's providing a mess of Constellation triggers by either entering the battlefield or bringing back Doomwake Giants. Banishing Light gives us interaction that Gb devotion generally doesn't have, while not feeling out of place in the deck because they generate Constellation triggers.
This deck has some draws that are just insane. I've gone turn 3 Doomwake Giant into turn 4 See the Unwritten for another Doomwake Giant and an Eidolon of Blossoms, sweeping my opponent's field and drawing two cards. Whip of Erebos works so amazingly in this build, as it triggers Constellation two ways, and can bring back things that were dumped from See the Unwritten. The lifegain also just makes certain matchups incredibly in our favor, as a deck like Jeskai Tempo is hard pressed to beat a start that goes turn 3 Siege Rhino into turn 4 Whip of Erebos. This deck has the bulk and removal to go head to head with the midrange strategies of the format, but it sacrifices aggression for the ability to just overwhelm the opponent in the late game. Eidolon of Blossoms is at her absolute best in this build, as See the Unwritten can provide an insane number of triggers.
I usually want to play the most controlling deck I possibly can, but I don't think that the optimal Constellation build will be that this time around, at least not in this current metagame. My current list is definitely in some weird place between being a G/b Devotion deck and a Constellation deck. If decks like Jeskai Ascendancy Combo and Control decks begin to become a huge part of the metagame, traditional Constellation is likely the better choice thanks to it's amount of disruption, but while Abzan Midrange and Jeskai Tempo are popular, this list feels very strong.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsto14
I've been really liking See the Unwritten, and with the success of these lists, I'll definitely have to take a look into playing the deck without white. Siege Rhino is nice for stabilizing, but going up on Whip of Erebos and running Commune with the Gods might just be the way to go going forward, as Whip has been absolutely amazing for me. Notably, it allows us to race decks that run Stormbreath Dragon. I've been liking having access to Banishing Light and Siege Rhino, but it could very well be worth just dropping them for some more consistency.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
2 Doomwake Giant
3 Hornet Queen
3 Whip of Erebos
Instants/Sorceries
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Murderous Cut
Land
4 Temple of Malady
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Windswept Heath
5 Forest
3 Swamp
While playing this deck, I found that sometimes I would just lose because I had too many cards that just didn't do anything by themselves. Having twelve additional sources of mana (counting Satyr Wayfinder as one) felt excessive, so I'm currently trying taking out 4 Sylvan Caryatid for 3 Rakshasa Deathdealers and a 23rd land. I kept in Elvish Mystic over Caryatid, as it gives us a possible turn 1 play that allows for turn 2 Pharika or Courser of Kruphix, and doesn't interfere with casting an early Wayfinder or Commune with the Gods. Deathdealer lets us start applying some pressure earlier on in the game, and is a card that isn't awful as a late game topdeck. He's also better than most 2-drops as a Whip of Erebos target because you can pump him additionally if you're doing this later on and deal even more damage and gain more life. It makes Whip of Erebos better in general because it gives you another source of damage, one that can scale to take advantage of the lifegain, and it also provides 2 devotion to Pharika. I'm trying out two copies of her for now, just to see what that's like.
My sideboard is in flux, but I've become very fond of Stain the Mind. While useless against many decks, it's very potent against our absolute worst matchups. We can't put a good clock on the combo decks, and while adding Thoughtseize helps, it's not always going to be enough--but Stain the Mind can neuter them completely. It also is very good against control, as they often run multiple copies of a single finisher. I won game 3 against a UB control deck once on turn 3, simply because I went turn 1 Elvish Mystic, turn 2 Coruser of Kruphix, turn 3 tap them both to convoke out a Stain the Mind turn 3 naming Prognostic Sphinx---that completely took them out of the game, leaving them with only removal spells and draw spells, ensuring that even if it took me a while to get there, they couldn't actually win the game. I've been surprised to see it not showing up more, as a combo deck is a real possible threat in standard, and GB Constellation is notoriously weak against it.
2 Elvish Mystic
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Doomwake Giant
3 Soul of Theros
3 Hornet Queen
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
Sorcery (2)
2 Commune with the Gods
3 Murderous Cut
Artifact (3)
3 Whip of Erebos
Enchantment (2)
2 Banishing Light
Land (23)
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Suspension Field
3 Thoughtseize
3 Drown in Sorrow
4 Fleecemane Lion
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Utter End
I thought that list looked pretty interesting. I don't love the fewer copies of Eidolon of Blossoms, and I'm not really sold on Soul of Theros either. It seems like it'd be pretty excellent when you can swing a bunch of pumped Hornet Queen tokens into the opponent, and any activation of it should wrap up a game if you have a decent board presence. The deck definitely has some crazy late game power, so I guess the consideration is whether or not the power is worth losing some of the consistency of the BG versions. One of the strengths of this archetype is already how it can spiral out of control in the late game, so while I'm sure that that list is strong---obviously, it won a GP---I think I might prefer some consistency. But it's definitely worth some testing.
B/G Devotion vs. Sultai (Sidisi, Sagu Mauler, some countering)
B/G Devotion vs. Abzan (Siege Rhino, Banishing Light, sometimes Elspeth, etc.)
Sidisi seems like a lot of fun, but I'm not sure how often you want to hold mana open for counter spells. Sagu Mauler seems good too.
The idea of using Whip on a Siege Rhino also seems like a good time. Banishing Light is just more triggering for Eidolon.
But maybe staying straight BG lends to more consistent mana and staying more focused with card selection overall.
Hey, Corpsetrader. While I do think Sidisi Whip decks are good, I think they probably wouldn't be Constellation decks, as Sidisi makes the archetype want to do something very different. As for Abzan, I'm currently trying it out, splashing white for Siege Rhino and Banishing Light, with Erase out of the sideboard. I'm liking this version a lot, as the splash is light enough that it doesn't negatively affect the consistency of the deck too much, and gives us access to what is probably the second best Whip of Erebos target in the current standard. Banishing Light over Murderous Cut also gives us more constellation triggers, and Banishing Light can be found with Commune with the Gods. ?It gives us a boost against the aggressive decks, as simply running Siege Rhino is huge game against them. If I can go turn 3 Siege Rhino into turn 4 Whip of Erebos the game is pretty much just over.
I'm not playing Soul of Theros at the moment, becuase while I do feel like it makes the deck more powerful, it does hurt the deck's consistency. This deck's resilience and late game power are huge enough that I've never really felt the need to make those elements even more potent at the cost of consistency.
Additionally, I've been loving Pharika, God of Affliction lately. Siege Rhino provides 2 devotion for her, and this deck is pretty permanent heavy. She lets us put to use all the Wayfinders, Mystics, and Caryatids that get dumped into the graveyard that Whip of Erebos isn't interested in, act as an excellent source of Constellation triggers, make attacking us on the ground extremely difficult, and be a 5/5 indestructible beater. As Whip of Erebos decks get more popular, Pharika will get better as well, because I can use her to remove Whip targets in response to the activation, and remove the Souls before they can be used. Sure, the opponent will get 1/1 deathtouch snakes for their troubles, but we're running Doomwake Giant, so those aren't a big issue. She's bad against aggressive decks, but excellent in the many midrange matchups we'll come up against, as well as against Control, where she ducks under Disdainful Stroke and is difficult to remove. Last standard, she was unimpressive against control because her army of 1/1s could be walled forever by Jace, Architect of Thought, but that isn't the case anymore.
Thanks for the reply. I actually ended up sleeving up Abzan, pretty much mentioning what you did minus the banishing lights (I left the murderous cuts in). I did that earlier today before I saw your reply. I played some games against Jeskai and it seemed favorable, but not lopsided. Overall a lot of fun. I think my only white card was Siege Rhino, but I think the sideboard needs more tuning. Mana wasn't hurt since there are only a few white sources.
I decided against blue for the reasons you mentioned as well. The enchantment theme starts to fall apart, and I don't think you want to be holding mana open with this deck for counter magic.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Murderous Cut
3 Whip of Erebos
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Doomwake Giant
3 Hornet Queen
2 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Temple of Malady
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Thoughtseize
4 Arbor Colossus
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Dark Betrayal
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
Key points: This list goes a little bigger than some like Blohon, cutting the Brain Maggot for another whip and doomwake.
Whip of Erebros is the card that makes this better than the GR versions to my mind, since the incidental lifegain saves us vs burn decks, while the reanimation lets us go long vs more ponderous decks.
The SB is still very much a work in progress. I feel like I know when I want Arbor Colossus (vs Mantis Rider)
Thoughtseize and Nissa, Worldwaker are both good vs random control decks.
Pharika is good vs other GY decks, while Doomwake is good vs attrition.
The spot removal in the SB is the question mark for me. I feel like I would prefer to have something like Agent of Erebos that is more narrow but more useful. Or enchantment removal. Maybe Unravel the Aether or Consign to Dust?
What other SB cards have people found useful?
Hey, magicmerl.
I liked Brain Maggot in the more controlling Constellation lists, but I definitely agree that this isn't the place for it.
I'm a fan of having some enchantment removal in the sideboard right now. Hitting Jeskai Ascendancy is pretty important, as we're kind of terrible against that deck, and enchantment removal has some extra functionality in that it's a good sideboard card for the mirror. I personally use Erase as my go-to enchantment removal, being in white, but in green I'd definitely go for the cheaper option. Consign to Dust is better against Constellation, Unravel the AEther is better against Jeskai Ascendancy Combo, so it's really whichever deck you're more concerned with. Agent of Erebos is a card I've used before, and while it works, Pharika is usually sufficient graveyard hate for me, especially with Commune with the Gods making it easier to find her.
I'm not a huge fan of spot removal in the sideboard, but I do run some---2 Murderous Cuts. I don't want to hold up mana for removal as much as possible. Banishing Light, as my maindeck removal, is worth it only because it can kill 'walkers and provide Constellation triggers. Otherwise, I rarely want to be the person holding up mana for Hero's Downfall in order to deal with a possible threat. Casting Murderous Cut for 1B or B turn 3 isn't that hard--Commune with the Gods enables it by itself--and if you have to delve away possible threats in order to kill a relevant threat, then so be it. I run them for the Jeskai Heroic deck, possibly Stormbreath Dragon, and for Jeskai Tempo--I want to make sure I have answers for Mantis Rider, as it can randomly take games if I don't draw a Whip, and Hushwing Gryff, if they're running it, can slow this deck down a lot. Without Banishing Light, though, I could definitely see running Hero's Downfall for it's planeswalker-killing abilities, should that be relevant.
This is what I'm currently working with:
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Siege Rhino
3 Doomwake Giant
2 Hornet Queen
Enchantments
3 Banishing Light
3 Whip of Erebos
4 Commune with the Gods
Land
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Forest
4 Thoughtseize
4 Erase
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Doomwake Giant
3 Arbor Colossus
2 Murderous Cut
I'm not sure that 4 Erase is the right number, but Jeskai Ascendancy is such a bad matchup that I don't feel bad adding them, especially as they have added utility in the mirror or any deck relying on Whip of Erebos. Other than the Erases, the sideboard is pretty self-explanatory. With Siege Rhino in the deck, the matchup against Jeskai Tempo is improved, but I still want Arbor Colossus to hold out against Mantis Riders, Wingmate Rocs, and Stormbreath Dragon. The Rhino also helps out against Control, as it is not only a threat they must remove, but even in the graveyard, thanks to Whip of Erebos, it represents a possible 3 life they'll lose, if you can bring them low enough.