I bought my playset at 10€ each, and this was definitely one of my greatest investments ever (also, opened a fifth and traded two of them to get a foiled one).
About the deck now. I've been playing both the PT version (Tobiasch, controlish) and the London version (more burn). Both are nice and i'm trying to adjust the deck for Prague next weekend.
1) I don't like Rabblemaster most of the time. There are far too many green decks with blockers around. Stratus Dancer might be a replacement, or more spells ?
2) Dragon was good at London, but will it remain efficient in Prague? What will the meta shift be?
Before going any further, this is what I consider to be the immutable skeletton of the deck:
So far, I've tested Chandra (not great)and Pyromancer's Goggles (won a 4 rounds tournament with it)
I'm probably forgetting some stuff. What are your thoughts?
edit: Apparently Jeskai placed 2nd at the first French WMCQ (scooped the final, go figure), I hope to get the list at some point for further analysis.
I really want Goggles to be good. I own two copies of it, but at 5 mana, I'd have to cut a Stormbreath/Sarkhan to make room and I don't know if it's necessarily better than those because it relies on me having more cards to cast AFTER casting it in order to get value. Sarkhan has been great; acting as a Stormbreath for pressure or as an Exquisite Firecraft to deal with a pesky creature. If you can get to his ultimate, that's pretty sweet with all the burn I run. Abbot looks great, but at least in my list, I don't know what I would cut for it. It would need to be a utility creature like Soulfire Grand Master or.... burn spells? If Chandra lives a turn, she can be ridiculous, but in all my games with her, she has died immediately. Or if I do flip her, I run out of gas and need to rip a card draw spell to get back into things. She seems OK at best. Harbinger seems good in a more controlling shell, but at least for me UU is hard to get early for my mana base, which wants R and W on opening turns. Just some thoughts from a more burn-centric build.
I want Monastery Mentor to be good, but it seems like he needs protection in either Gods Willing or counter spells of some kind. He's great when he lives, but the format is FULL of Wild Slash and Magma Spray. So without backup, it just dies to literally everything. I'm running the list below and I like it quite a bit. For my 3 drops I want an immediate effect, so I run Mantis Rider and burn/utility spells only. My "investment" creatures are all in the 2 drop slot. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Soulfire Grand Master, and Hangarback Walker are all great to play on turn 2 and great to play on turn 5+ depending on whether I'm the aggressor or not. Monastery Mentor comes down on 3 and does nothing or comes down on 4+ and maybe gets a Prowess token. On 4+, I want to be playing 2 spells a turn, burning their face, or slamming another Mantis/Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. I feel like Mentor fits better in a UW or Esper shell with disruption and protection. In Jeskai, he's just too vulnerable. For the record, I don't run any Rabblemasters.
R1: 2-0 UW control: Lots of enchantment based removal, G1 close, G2 blowout in my favor. Patience and burn/Mantis
R2: 0-2 Sultai Walls?: Assault Formation is a card... Especially when played on turn 2 both games. Pretty much all my removal is damage based. Hard to race when taking 7-14 damage per turn off Wall of Frost and all my stuff dies to Languish.
R3: 2-1 Temur Aggro: G1 I had utterly insane draws, he drew 7+ lands. G2, I never got past 2 lands for 5+ turns. G3 was actually a fair game, I got there with Mantis rider while killing his threats.
R4: 2-1 UR Thopters: G1 looong and grindy. I was able to deal with threats and stall. Finish with Mantis and burn. G2 long and grindy, couldn't find all the answers, died to double Chief of the Foundry + double Ghostfire Blade. G3, good draws on my part, stumble on their part. 8 minutes left in the round, got there with double mantis and lots of burn.
R5: 2-1 Jeskai Ascendancy: G1 long and grindy, he didn't see Ascendancy until way too late. Got there with Sarkhan. G2 long and grindy, he stumbled, Negate one Ascendancy, but he lands the other and steamrolls me. G3 with 10 minutes left, I get there switching to super aggro mode and ignoring his threats. Race and get there with 4 life left on turn 4 of extra turns.
Hangarback Walker is value if you want to play a more controlling role. I like playing this way because I can hold back my threats, kill theirs, then swing in with Thopters, Mantis, Sarkhan and burn.
I know this is a tempo thread, but I've been playing a bigger midrange style deck with 3 end hostilities MB. I guess its a combo of value aggro going big. I went 2-1 in one event and after tweaking it a little 3-0 in another.
I guess my deck is kinda over the place in terms of consistency. If I had to change it, I would probably have 1-2 more Jace MB. Probably put Dragonslayer in the SB
Choices
Hangarback: This one's showing up everywhere. It's a nice value creature that has good synergy with board wipes. Thopters are also good for shooting down PWs. Also random synergy with Jeskai Charm mode 3 and Pia/Kiran.
Mantis Rider: He's basically a living burn spell. He's gonna get through unless they have a (small) dragon to block with, which usually isn't the case before T3. If he sticks around he's gonna do good damage or shoot down PWs.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: Three copies might be too many, but I really like this card. 4 power on 3 bodies is good, and blowing up thopters (or even stuff like hangarback) has some excellent versatility. Den Protector annoying you? Shoot it and have 2 creatures left. Opponent low on life? Swing with 2 thopters then blow up one or two.
Jace: Good early game, decent late game, amazing synergy with Ojutai's Command
Elspeth: One thing I don't like so much about Jeskai is that it often feels powerless against bigger decks, and Elspeth helps fix that by wiping the board and setting a clock. Providing extra boardwipes on a wincon is also good against resilient creature decks where 3 End Hostilities might not be enough.
Stoke: no brainer
Dig: no brainer
End Hostilities: This in my opinion is the reason to play more midrangey. There's an insane amount of green and I think the way the deck is currently built, it really minimizes the losses. Hangarback gets tokens, Mantis Rider is a burn spell on legs, Jace transforms into a PW, etc. Plus, it has the bonus of really beating down on UR artifacts by blowing up Ghostfire blade and Ensoul Artifact.
Ojutai's Command: I love this card, a little expensive CMC wise but if you clear or wipe the board and your opponent lets you hold this up, you're gonna make them cry. Insane synergy with Jace, usually good at stopping late game bombs that aren't PW.
Jeskai Charm: Very good in a meta with Hangarback and Ensoul, also ironically good with Hangarback Thopters
"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
Tried it and its hard to compare to rabble since it plays differently. I did try to adjust the mana though to accommodate the 2 Stoke the Flames. Went 4-0 in my local FNM
Field had several Hangarback Abzan, UR Thopters, Monored aggro decks. Saw a Sultai and an esper control deck too. A couple of Mardu Dragons was also present.
This list got Top 8 in a recent large SCG event. I don't have the name of the player, unfortunately.
I love the idea of getting the most out of burn spells with Soulfire Grand Master and Satyr Firedancer. I've played several test games and really like this deck so far.
I want to run a lot of 2 drops, which is why i love the Hangerback Jeskai build. It feels like you always have either a Jace, Hangerback, or Soulfire on turn 2, which seems solid, but Soulfire is pretty unimpressive, to me, and the weak link. A 2/2 lifelink for 2... yawn. It bricks or trades with almost every other playable 2 drop and is just terrible against 3 drops like Courser. The cards ability hardly ever becomes a thing, i've found. If you have 8 to buyback a O.Command, then you probably flooded and will lose, or have lost, anyways. Other times, i'm just winning and dont need to use the ability, or its a win-more. Six to buyback a Lig Strike isnt unreasonable, but we will be losing Strike pretty soon and, again, its not where you want to be usually.
Would Abbot make more sense? Maybe you concede more games to mono-red this way, but it looks like mono-red will be hurt pretty bad post rotation. Right now i have 4 Hangerbacks, 4 Jace, and 3 Soulfire, but i could see a world where I go 4 Abbot and 3 Hangerback.
I want to run a lot of 2 drops, which is why i love the Hangerback Jeskai build. It feels like you always have either a Jace, Hangerback, or Soulfire on turn 2, which seems solid, but Soulfire is pretty unimpressive, to me, and the weak link. A 2/2 lifelink for 2... yawn. It bricks or trades with almost every other playable 2 drop and is just terrible against 3 drops like Courser. The cards ability hardly ever becomes a thing, i've found. If you have 8 to buyback a O.Command, then you probably flooded and will lose, or have lost, anyways. Other times, i'm just winning and dont need to use the ability, or its a win-more. Six to buyback a Lig Strike isnt unreasonable, but we will be losing Strike pretty soon and, again, its not where you want to be usually.
Would Abbot make more sense? Maybe you concede more games to mono-red this way, but it looks like mono-red will be hurt pretty bad post rotation. Right now i have 4 Hangerbacks, 4 Jace, and 3 Soulfire, but i could see a world where I go 4 Abbot and 3 Hangerback.
I couldn't disagree more. While I don't think 4 soulfire is mandatory, it is a route to victory and generates a lot of potential card advantage. Jeskai is positioned relatively well right now because of the game winning threat density it can present. Mantis Rider, Jace, Soulfire and Rabble all represent must answer threats, and while soulfire is the weakest of them it still qualifies. I've flirted with adding abbot, but I don't think it is as strong or even compliments the current default build's game plan. There may be an excellent Abbot Jeskai deck, but it would need to be built to be very aggressive, probably with Seekers as well and the current default shell is not that.
One of the things that makes Hangarback slightly meh is its lack of synergy with O. Command. If you are playing Hangarback you probably want to be controlling, and O command is one of our better 'control' cards but the two don't play well together.
Well, people play Hangerback in replace of Rabbles, which can also be a terrible card in a lot of situations and also doesnt play well with O Command, so thats a moot point. While i agree that Soulfire has the potential to be decent late game, i've just not had that happen very often. It usually just sits there on the board, doing nothing, blanked by most of my opponents cards.
Its weird, the Hangerback version feels less controlly than you'd think. I still feel like its tempo, with another win con, a better win con than Rabble. HB feels a lot more at home in this deck than something so hyper aggressive like Rabble.
The Soulfire spot is crucial, you def need a 2 drop that can be resurrected along with Jace, and i suppose its the best option for now.
What do you guys think of the Jeskai aggro deck utilizing magmatic insight in combination with treasure cruises instead of jace? The list runs a lot of cheap agressive creatures like abbot, mentor, rabblemaster and mantis rider.
I think you'll want more interaction in the form of burn. I would cut Insight and Mentor to make room. (The latter because your light on spells, and the format has too much 2 damage burn for him to stick.)
I really want Goggles to be good. I own two copies of it, but at 5 mana, I'd have to cut a Stormbreath/Sarkhan to make room and I don't know if it's necessarily better than those because it relies on me having more cards to cast AFTER casting it in order to get value. Sarkhan has been great; acting as a Stormbreath for pressure or as an Exquisite Firecraft to deal with a pesky creature. If you can get to his ultimate, that's pretty sweet with all the burn I run. Abbot looks great, but at least in my list, I don't know what I would cut for it. It would need to be a utility creature like Soulfire Grand Master or.... burn spells? If Chandra lives a turn, she can be ridiculous, but in all my games with her, she has died immediately. Or if I do flip her, I run out of gas and need to rip a card draw spell to get back into things. She seems OK at best. Harbinger seems good in a more controlling shell, but at least for me UU is hard to get early for my mana base, which wants R and W on opening turns. Just some thoughts from a more burn-centric build.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Instant (16)
2x Dig Through Time
2x Jeskai Charm
3x Lightning Strike
2x Ojutai's Command
2x Stoke the Flames
2x Valorous Stance
3x Wild Slash
Creature (13)
2x Hangarback Walker
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
4x Mantis Rider
3x Soulfire Grand Master
3x Exquisite Firecraft
1x Roast
Land (25)
3x Battlefield Forge
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
3x Mountain
4x Mystic Monastery
2x Plains
3x Shivan Reef
2x Temple of Epiphany
2x Temple of Triumph
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Arashin Cleric
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x End Hostilities
2x Negate
1x Outpost Siege
2x Revoke Existence
2x Roast
Finished 4-1 at FNM last night.
R1: 2-0 UW control: Lots of enchantment based removal, G1 close, G2 blowout in my favor. Patience and burn/Mantis
R2: 0-2 Sultai Walls?: Assault Formation is a card... Especially when played on turn 2 both games. Pretty much all my removal is damage based. Hard to race when taking 7-14 damage per turn off Wall of Frost and all my stuff dies to Languish.
R3: 2-1 Temur Aggro: G1 I had utterly insane draws, he drew 7+ lands. G2, I never got past 2 lands for 5+ turns. G3 was actually a fair game, I got there with Mantis rider while killing his threats.
R4: 2-1 UR Thopters: G1 looong and grindy. I was able to deal with threats and stall. Finish with Mantis and burn. G2 long and grindy, couldn't find all the answers, died to double Chief of the Foundry + double Ghostfire Blade. G3, good draws on my part, stumble on their part. 8 minutes left in the round, got there with double mantis and lots of burn.
R5: 2-1 Jeskai Ascendancy: G1 long and grindy, he didn't see Ascendancy until way too late. Got there with Sarkhan. G2 long and grindy, he stumbled, Negate one Ascendancy, but he lands the other and steamrolls me. G3 with 10 minutes left, I get there switching to super aggro mode and ignoring his threats. Race and get there with 4 life left on turn 4 of extra turns.
Hangarback Walker is value if you want to play a more controlling role. I like playing this way because I can hold back my threats, kill theirs, then swing in with Thopters, Mantis, Sarkhan and burn.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
4 Mantis Rider
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Hidden Dragonslayer
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Dig through Time
3 Ojutai's Command
3 End Hostilities
3 Jeskai Charm
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
1 Tragic Arrogance
1 End Hostilities
1 Hidden Dragonslayer
1 Seismic Rupture
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Revoke Existence
1 Stratus Dancer
1 Valorous Stance
I guess my deck is kinda over the place in terms of consistency. If I had to change it, I would probably have 1-2 more Jace MB. Probably put Dragonslayer in the SB
Choices
Hangarback: This one's showing up everywhere. It's a nice value creature that has good synergy with board wipes. Thopters are also good for shooting down PWs. Also random synergy with Jeskai Charm mode 3 and Pia/Kiran.
Mantis Rider: He's basically a living burn spell. He's gonna get through unless they have a (small) dragon to block with, which usually isn't the case before T3. If he sticks around he's gonna do good damage or shoot down PWs.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: Three copies might be too many, but I really like this card. 4 power on 3 bodies is good, and blowing up thopters (or even stuff like hangarback) has some excellent versatility. Den Protector annoying you? Shoot it and have 2 creatures left. Opponent low on life? Swing with 2 thopters then blow up one or two.
Jace: Good early game, decent late game, amazing synergy with Ojutai's Command
Elspeth: One thing I don't like so much about Jeskai is that it often feels powerless against bigger decks, and Elspeth helps fix that by wiping the board and setting a clock. Providing extra boardwipes on a wincon is also good against resilient creature decks where 3 End Hostilities might not be enough.
Stoke: no brainer
Dig: no brainer
End Hostilities: This in my opinion is the reason to play more midrangey. There's an insane amount of green and I think the way the deck is currently built, it really minimizes the losses. Hangarback gets tokens, Mantis Rider is a burn spell on legs, Jace transforms into a PW, etc. Plus, it has the bonus of really beating down on UR artifacts by blowing up Ghostfire blade and Ensoul Artifact.
Ojutai's Command: I love this card, a little expensive CMC wise but if you clear or wipe the board and your opponent lets you hold this up, you're gonna make them cry. Insane synergy with Jace, usually good at stopping late game bombs that aren't PW.
Jeskai Charm: Very good in a meta with Hangarback and Ensoul, also ironically good with Hangarback Thopters
4x Mantis Rider
4x Monastery Mentor
2x Seeker of the Way
1x Dig Through Time
1x Gods Willing
4x Jeskai Charm
2x Valorous Stance
3x Wild Slash
3x Battlefield Forge
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
2x Mountain
4x Mystic Monastery
2x Plains
3x Shivan Reef
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Temple of Epiphany
2x Temple of Triumph
1x Erase
4x Exquisite Firecraft
4x Fiery Impulse
2x Negate
2x Roast
The deck is very powerful has some super explosive turns, and can win out of nowhere.
What really has my attention is hardly any of this list is rotating out. SO it will be a great week 1 deck for the new format.
--Laboratory notes, final entry
Tried it and its hard to compare to rabble since it plays differently. I did try to adjust the mana though to accommodate the 2 Stoke the Flames. Went 4-0 in my local FNM
RD1: UB Control 2-0
RD2: B/W Aggro 2-0
RD3: Jeskai Heroic 2-1
RD4: Jeskai Heroic 2-1
Field had several Hangarback Abzan, UR Thopters, Monored aggro decks. Saw a Sultai and an esper control deck too. A couple of Mardu Dragons was also present.
4x Exquisite Firecraft
4x Jeskai Charm
4x Lightning Strike
2x Ojutai's Command
4x Searing Blood
4x Stoke the Flames
3x Wild Slash
Creatures:
4x Mantis Rider
4x Satyr Firedancer
4x Soulfire Grand Master
2x Battlefield Forge
3x Flooded Strand
2x Island
4x Mountain
4x Mystic Monastery
2x Plains
2x Shivan Reef
2x Temple of Epiphany
2x Temple of Triumph
1x Cranial Archive
3x Deflecting Palm
2x Harbinger of the Tides
3x Negate
2x Ojutai's Command
2x Revoke Existence
2x Smash to Smithereens
This list got Top 8 in a recent large SCG event. I don't have the name of the player, unfortunately.
I love the idea of getting the most out of burn spells with Soulfire Grand Master and Satyr Firedancer. I've played several test games and really like this deck so far.
I want to run a lot of 2 drops, which is why i love the Hangerback Jeskai build. It feels like you always have either a Jace, Hangerback, or Soulfire on turn 2, which seems solid, but Soulfire is pretty unimpressive, to me, and the weak link. A 2/2 lifelink for 2... yawn. It bricks or trades with almost every other playable 2 drop and is just terrible against 3 drops like Courser. The cards ability hardly ever becomes a thing, i've found. If you have 8 to buyback a O.Command, then you probably flooded and will lose, or have lost, anyways. Other times, i'm just winning and dont need to use the ability, or its a win-more. Six to buyback a Lig Strike isnt unreasonable, but we will be losing Strike pretty soon and, again, its not where you want to be usually.
Would Abbot make more sense? Maybe you concede more games to mono-red this way, but it looks like mono-red will be hurt pretty bad post rotation. Right now i have 4 Hangerbacks, 4 Jace, and 3 Soulfire, but i could see a world where I go 4 Abbot and 3 Hangerback.
I couldn't disagree more. While I don't think 4 soulfire is mandatory, it is a route to victory and generates a lot of potential card advantage. Jeskai is positioned relatively well right now because of the game winning threat density it can present. Mantis Rider, Jace, Soulfire and Rabble all represent must answer threats, and while soulfire is the weakest of them it still qualifies. I've flirted with adding abbot, but I don't think it is as strong or even compliments the current default build's game plan. There may be an excellent Abbot Jeskai deck, but it would need to be built to be very aggressive, probably with Seekers as well and the current default shell is not that.
One of the things that makes Hangarback slightly meh is its lack of synergy with O. Command. If you are playing Hangarback you probably want to be controlling, and O command is one of our better 'control' cards but the two don't play well together.
Its weird, the Hangerback version feels less controlly than you'd think. I still feel like its tempo, with another win con, a better win con than Rabble. HB feels a lot more at home in this deck than something so hyper aggressive like Rabble.
The Soulfire spot is crucial, you def need a 2 drop that can be resurrected along with Jace, and i suppose its the best option for now.
here is an example:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=91090
you can watch some of his matches at Magic's YT page. it's quite effective.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)