Your list isn't too far off from my own. I don't see too many people jumping on the Nemesis of Mortals bandwagon with me, but I'm a fan. On the mana, I can't decide whether I prefer Mana Confluence or the BUG tri-land. I'm already running b/g scry temples, and having 8 lands enter tapped is a drag. I don't find myself taking any significant damage from my lands though, so maybe it's worth switching to M.C. for the tempo boost.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I really like ZorrosRage's take on the deck, but I wanted to pose a question to both you and PrinceAbubu: Why no Sagu Mauler? I know PrinceAbubu mentioned it in his sideboard. I saw several posts talking about it being a great bomb/whip target. I'm mostly just curious. I haven't really played in standard and I'm interested in getting into it with this deck. Thanks!
I really like ZorrosRage's take on the deck, but I wanted to pose a question to both you and PrinceAbubu: Why no Sagu Mauler? I know PrinceAbubu mentioned it in his sideboard. I saw several posts talking about it being a great bomb/whip target. I'm mostly just curious. I haven't really played in standard and I'm interested in getting into it with this deck. Thanks!
I like sagu and would only really put it in the side for when I switch more delv. My main concern is having too many at high cost. I like the 5/5 for 3 cost flyer more in case I have those land concerns. I guess he could fit instead of rakshasa. Both would work
I don't think Taigam's Scheming is very good. You need to be able to play a fair game longterm and the card is strict card disadvantage.
It's not strict card disadvantage in the right deck. Because we have so many spells and abilities enabled by both quantity of cards in the graveyard and the act of putting cards in the graveyard, Scheming can actually be a dual purpose spell. It's not a cantrip per se, but it replaces itself with an effect or serves as a tutor.
Casting it randomly without an enabler or game plan is probably not where you want to be. I would hope no one is doing that ha.
I've been getting interested in this deck for a while. I've always loved graveyard interaction and having it in Sultai colors just screams at me to build it. So here is the list I've been working on. Note that I haven't read much into this thread yet, and that this is just a rough draft that I threw together in about 30 minutes.
Thinking of adding Herald of Torment to give me some extra evasion. Maybe taking out a land or two since I have mystic and caryatid and adding 2 hornet queens
I switched out the elvish mystic for the caryatids because I always want to cast sidisi on turn 3 which mystic wasn't able to accomplish as easily. Otherwise its pretty similar.
I'm working on other builds as well, but I think this is the strongest.
SCG Open just showed Todd Anderson and Brad Nelson playing Sultai Delve. Both of them lost. BBD out aggro'd Anderson with Abzan midrange and Brad couldn't find an answer to new Sarkhan.
My FNM was just draft, but apparently someone at my friends store made top cut with a B/U/G list including Jace, Endless Obedience, and an Ashen Rider(no white source at all). Apparently he just decided the risk of drawing it made it worth having to mill and reanimate.
I like Prince Abubu's take on the deck the most so far. I really feel like you can't ignore Hornet Queen right now and she's a great reanimation target.
The one question I have for a lot of people is: Is there any reason to be running blue in these besides Sidisi? It seems weird to be stretching the mana base that far for a single card. Yes I know she can be reanimated etc but does that seem wise?
The one question I have for a lot of people is: Is there any reason to be running blue in these besides Sidisi? It seems weird to be stretching the mana base that far for a single card. Yes I know she can be reanimated etc but does that seem wise?
I also run 1 Ascendancy, 3 Sultai Charms, and 1 Sphinx. Blue is a more of splash but it also let's you side a few good answers in the form of Aetherspouts, Stubborn Denial, and Clever Impersonator.
Here is my list that I ran last night. I went 2-1, beating the mirror match easily and destroying a GR devotion deck that couldn't get off the ground. A hyperaggressive BR deck was what I lost to. Game one was his, as I expected. I sided in for it hoping for a strong game 2/3, but literally drew no lands for my first two mulligans. It wasn't pretty, especially when I felt that I played extra lands. Here is my list:
I go into a lot of detail in my own thread I posted. While I really like the cards, Reaper and Mauler both let me down a little bit. I think Prognostic Sphynxes would be a could substitute to try out. I'm also wanting to use Empty the Pits as a wincon, but Nighthowler becomes a dead card after that. So I'd like to drop Nighthowlers and some Nemesis of Mortals for about 2 Empty the Pits and maybe add some removal. I'm playing a little budgety though, so things like Thoughtseize aren't in my future as of now. Despise is certainly something I'm considering, and dropping Elvish Mystics and adding in Sylvan Caryatids is something I'm reluctantly considering. It's not budget-friendly, but it serves more purposes.
The one card I'm absolutely thrilled with in my current list is Aqueous Form. Attach that to a Nighthowler (or something I plan on bestowing later), Nemesis, or Sidisi for some unfair damage and scrying. Feels a lot easier to run that card instead of Herald of Torment.
Also, Reclamation Sage in the sideboard is amazing. Hit everything for me last night from god-weapons to Enchantment Creatures. Definitely running at least 3 in any Dredge deck I do.
He lost 2 early and won out to hit 11th not bad for a starting point
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
So after watching variants of this deck play out today on the Star City Games stream, I'm going to start testing a slightly different build alongside what everyone is working with on here. I want to try something a bit more aggro, where we use her kind of like mono-red uses the Rabblemaster. Not quite monoblack aggro territory, but maybe a golgari shell something like Kibler was working on back when Dreg Mangler was around. Probably not quite so delve centric, but tweaking that list to drop in a few more card advantage driven guys- like bloodsoaked champion (great with commune/wayfinder), mardu skullhunter and maindeck rakshasa deathdealers.
Not saying it's better than the straight up delve/dredge builds, just something I'd like to try. Sidisi is terrifying when 1) removal is exhausted and 2) chip damage has them at anywhere near 10 or below.
I dislike the more controlling Delve lists i've seen, they exert very little pressure outside of Sidisi and even then struggle to close out games. As for Brad's list, I'm not a fan, his take seems to push the Delve mechanic more than the cards themselves. The deck just matches up poorly, at least to me, to the other Midrange strategies we saw floating around and the omission of Whip entirely is not where I would wan't to be given the prevalence of Jeskai Tempo.
Naturally it is very easy to criticize in hindsight but allot of these lists are still very much works in progress which leaves us with a lot of work cut out for us in the coming weeks.
As for myself, I'm leaning more toward a core of something like this;
Which gives me about 7 or so more slots to play with. Bloodsoaked Champion is silly good against control as a recurring threat while Whip and Nighthowler allow you to outmusscle the midrange decks and race the faster ones. Sidisi+Whip in particular is near impossible to beat for most aggressive lists.
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I agree with Brad in the sense that Weaver is a pretty *****ty creature as far as base stats are concerned. In terms of value in grindy games, which he is clearly set up for, Courser gives you more value in my opinion. Wayfinder, Commune and Sidisi all admirably go about keeping your yard stocked, if anything the greatest appeal of Weaver is not its selfmill trigger but rather its Restock ability to to get back your Delve spells.
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the 10 peices of removal in brads deck are pretty legit, i like the deck against monsters and walkers. drown at 4 hoses aggro too. i just netdecked it =p
He lost 2 early and won out to hit 11th not bad for a starting point
Is Necropolis Fiend really worth it? his stats aren't that impressive really and that deck list doesn't seem to have many ways to fuel his rather resource-greedy ability.
I'm trying hard to make this deck work but I'm just having a ton of trouble finding the right balance of creatures to self-mill cards and finding a way to actually win. At first I thought about the Whip of Erebos engine, but realized only two of my creatures were even worth bringing back with whip. Then I thought about the standard Nighthowler build, but didn't have anywhere near enough creatures to make Nighthowler relevant and adding more cut out all of my self-mill cards or removal. This is a tough deck to figure out..
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Commune With the Gods
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Taigam's Scheming
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Nighthowler
3 Herald of Torment
3 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
1 Whip of Erebos
4 Nemesis of Mortals
1 Necropolis Fiend
3 Swamp
1 Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mana Confluence
4 Llanowar Wastes
Your list isn't too far off from my own. I don't see too many people jumping on the Nemesis of Mortals bandwagon with me, but I'm a fan. On the mana, I can't decide whether I prefer Mana Confluence or the BUG tri-land. I'm already running b/g scry temples, and having 8 lands enter tapped is a drag. I don't find myself taking any significant damage from my lands though, so maybe it's worth switching to M.C. for the tempo boost.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I like sagu and would only really put it in the side for when I switch more delv. My main concern is having too many at high cost. I like the 5/5 for 3 cost flyer more in case I have those land concerns. I guess he could fit instead of rakshasa. Both would work
It's not strict card disadvantage in the right deck. Because we have so many spells and abilities enabled by both quantity of cards in the graveyard and the act of putting cards in the graveyard, Scheming can actually be a dual purpose spell. It's not a cantrip per se, but it replaces itself with an effect or serves as a tutor.
Casting it randomly without an enabler or game plan is probably not where you want to be. I would hope no one is doing that ha.
I miss grisly as well.. They replaced it with a 3cc sorc speed. It just isn't the same.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Nyx Weaver
4 Nighthowler
3 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
3 Nemesis of Mortals
2 Herald of Torment
Spells
3 Murderous Cut
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Commune with the Gods
3 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Mana Confluence
3 Opulent Palace
2 Temple of Deceit
1 Polluted Delta
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thoughtseize
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Hornet Nest
2 Sagu Mauler
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Empty the Pits
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
4x Nyx Weaver
1x Necropolis Fiend
2x Pharika, God of AFfliction
1x Empty the pits
2x Whip of Erobos
2x Murderous Cut
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Reaper of the Wilds
2x Dig Through Time
4x Hero's DownFall
4x Rakshasa Deathdealer
4x Temple of Mystery
4x Llanowar Wastes
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Yavimaya Coast
1x Nykthos, Shrine of Nyx
2x Forest
3x Swamp
Thinking of adding Herald of Torment to give me some extra evasion. Maybe taking out a land or two since I have mystic and caryatid and adding 2 hornet queens
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Sultai Soothsayer
3 Nighthowler
2 Herald of Torment
3 Nyx Weaver
2 Necropolis Fiend
2 Hornet Queen
4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
Spells
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Murderous Cut
1 Empty the Pits
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Polluted Delta
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Temple of Malady
3 Opulent Palace
4 Thoughtseize
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Empty the Pits
2 Drown in sorrow
2 Sagu Mauler
1 Prognostic sphinx
I switched out the elvish mystic for the caryatids because I always want to cast sidisi on turn 3 which mystic wasn't able to accomplish as easily. Otherwise its pretty similar.
I'm working on other builds as well, but I think this is the strongest.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
The one question I have for a lot of people is: Is there any reason to be running blue in these besides Sidisi? It seems weird to be stretching the mana base that far for a single card. Yes I know she can be reanimated etc but does that seem wise?
I also run 1 Ascendancy, 3 Sultai Charms, and 1 Sphinx. Blue is a more of splash but it also let's you side a few good answers in the form of Aetherspouts, Stubborn Denial, and Clever Impersonator.
Edit: I found your posted deck. Let me take a look at it but I do like yours as well.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Nighthowler
3 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
1 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Nemesis of Mortals
1 Sagu Mauler
1 Necropolis Fiend
Enchantments - 5
2 Aqueous Form
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Commune with the Gods
1 Savage Punch
1 Endless Obedience
Lands - 22
4 Temple of Malady
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Mystery
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Opulent Palace
4 Forest
4 Island
3 Swamp
4 Reclamation Sage
3 Negate
3 Nylea's Disciple
2 Bile Blight
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Jace, the Living Guildpact
1 Disdainful Stroke
I go into a lot of detail in my own thread I posted. While I really like the cards, Reaper and Mauler both let me down a little bit. I think Prognostic Sphynxes would be a could substitute to try out. I'm also wanting to use Empty the Pits as a wincon, but Nighthowler becomes a dead card after that. So I'd like to drop Nighthowlers and some Nemesis of Mortals for about 2 Empty the Pits and maybe add some removal. I'm playing a little budgety though, so things like Thoughtseize aren't in my future as of now. Despise is certainly something I'm considering, and dropping Elvish Mystics and adding in Sylvan Caryatids is something I'm reluctantly considering. It's not budget-friendly, but it serves more purposes.
The one card I'm absolutely thrilled with in my current list is Aqueous Form. Attach that to a Nighthowler (or something I plan on bestowing later), Nemesis, or Sidisi for some unfair damage and scrying. Feels a lot easier to run that card instead of Herald of Torment.
Also, Reclamation Sage in the sideboard is amazing. Hit everything for me last night from god-weapons to Enchantment Creatures. Definitely running at least 3 in any Dredge deck I do.
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Soul of Innistrad
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
5 Forest
1 Island
3 Swamp
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Opulent Palace
3 Polluted Delta
4 Temple of Malady
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Murderous Cut
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Thoughtseize
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Empty the Pits
1 Silence the Believers
2 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Despise
4 Drown in Sorrow
2 Thoughtseize
He lost 2 early and won out to hit 11th not bad for a starting point
--Laboratory notes, final entry
Not saying it's better than the straight up delve/dredge builds, just something I'd like to try. Sidisi is terrifying when 1) removal is exhausted and 2) chip damage has them at anywhere near 10 or below.
Naturally it is very easy to criticize in hindsight but allot of these lists are still very much works in progress which leaves us with a lot of work cut out for us in the coming weeks.
As for myself, I'm leaning more toward a core of something like this;
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Nighthowler
4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
2 Nyx Weaver
4 Murderous Cut
4 Commune with the Gods
Which gives me about 7 or so more slots to play with. Bloodsoaked Champion is silly good against control as a recurring threat while Whip and Nighthowler allow you to outmusscle the midrange decks and race the faster ones. Sidisi+Whip in particular is near impossible to beat for most aggressive lists.
wish sidisi foils werent 16 bucks lol
Is Necropolis Fiend really worth it? his stats aren't that impressive really and that deck list doesn't seem to have many ways to fuel his rather resource-greedy ability.
I'm trying hard to make this deck work but I'm just having a ton of trouble finding the right balance of creatures to self-mill cards and finding a way to actually win. At first I thought about the Whip of Erebos engine, but realized only two of my creatures were even worth bringing back with whip. Then I thought about the standard Nighthowler build, but didn't have anywhere near enough creatures to make Nighthowler relevant and adding more cut out all of my self-mill cards or removal. This is a tough deck to figure out..
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