MTG Salvation

Greetings, gentlemen, this is my first time, so truly do be gentle. But don't hold back on anything constructive, either.

So, what we're all here for, THE deck!


I know this is way early, but WUx will lose a lot of gas (Supreme Verdict, Sphinx's Revelation, Detention Sphere) when RtR rotates. I wanted to get a handle on RUG control early and learn what works. Right now Anger of the Gods looks to be a fine sweeper, especially in the face of Athreos, God of Passage. I also really wanted to play Kiora, the Crashing Wave, so the deck was born.

The deck plays what it has turns 2 & 3, preferably landing a creature, but countering or using removal if absolutely necessary. Turn 4 you get to make a decision based on your hand and board state: tapout or draw go. If you have counters, especially Plasm Capture, pass the turn and counter anything worth it. Turn five play something fat if you've got it. If you caught something with a plasm (or have a swan song), drop a walker.

The finishers are AEtherling, Clan Defiance, and Kiora, the Crashing Wave.


Suspect Card Choices

I (possibly naively) want no dead cards in game one. This means no Sylvan Caryatid (mana feels good so far, not really trying to ramp, super dead against control).
I haven't tested against aggro enough, but g1 is tough. However, I didn't want dead Angers against control, so for now they're in the SB. I know the SB is super rough, please hook a brother up with some knowledge.

Ral Zarek is a slot I'm not 100% on, but I wanted another t4 walker, and I feel comfortable enough in my draw engines (Courser of Kruphix, Keranos, Zegana, the Bident, and Kiora) that I don't think I need Jace, AoT. The possibility of an ultimate while Kiora is out tempts me, and t4 Ral Zarek leaving mana open for swan song or rapid hybridization feels good.

Both Zegana and Bident are big devotion support that enable card draw, I've liked them so far, but if I'm missing something better let me know. It's nice not having to solely rely on Kiora for pure draw; I'd rather try to make some krakens.

I chose Counterflux in the main for the ability to shut down WUx control. Mana has proven decent so far, though again, this makes aggro a bit tougher. Finally, Izzet Charm is a personal favorite, but I'm unsure of what to cut, or if it's even necessary.

Let me know what you think. Numbers, bad cards, foolish optimism, I wanna hear it. Thanks.

Thanks for the feedback, Sting. I agree with your logic in cutting the Bident, though I may test it out in the side for control. I also cut Zegana, again, solid reasoning. Added two Izzet Charms to fill it out. As I haven't gotten to play the deck a ton, I'm going to continue to test Kruphix, but I will most likely exclusively play him off plasm capture mana or later with counter mana up. Open to changing more, just need to test it.

Manatee, what good tourney results are there for this archetype? If there aren't any, I think you're in the wrong forum category. With that said, I like the idea of RUG control and I've been brainstorming how I might build it. I just don't like your list, at all. It isn't the individual card choices. I like all of your card choices individually, in fact, but they really don't work well together in the current global meta of what is popular. Please don't take this personally, I want to help us get to a point where this has a decent chance of winning any particular match-up. So, some constructive comments:

Your maindeck is particularly susceptible to any fast aggro strategy. You need to be able to win this type of matchup, as I would guess fast aggro decks are about 40-60% of the global meta of successful decks. In order to win game 1, you'd probably need something like turn 2 Weird (tough with your manabase) followed by turn 3 Courser (not tough with your manabase, but really hard if your t2 play was Weird). That's basically a 5 card combo, as you'd need exactly the right lands to pull this off. And those plays aren't even guaranteeing a win, that's just to give you a good chance. After that you can hit some combination of Keranos/Kiora/Ral Zarek/Clan Defiance to stabilize and take over the game. From the sb you have Polukronos and Anger of the Gods which will be good in this matchup. For that reason I think some decent bodied medium sized creature needs to be maindecked, and Polukronos works for that. It will never be truly BAD in any match-up, especially since you can Plasm Capture it out for free sometimes, without having to tap out. Second observation is that Swan Song and Rapid Hybridization both create new ways for you to die in addition to solving the problem you're using it on, thus creating another problem to deal with later. I realize you have many ways to get rid of the tokens in the deck, but the times when you can't do it on the same turn, or can't do it without using another card will be often enough that you are wasting precious life points and/or cards that could be avoided by just choosing a different removal spell/counter to begin with. If you had more creatures to block with or cheaper repeatable removal, I'd think differently about those choices. Turn/Burn, Mizzium Mortars, and/or Negate seems good in those spots. Another idea is to use Jace, Architect of Thought, the + ability will help slow down aggro, and the card is never BAD in any matchup, much like Polukronos. Yet another suggestion is maybe add a Chandra, Pyromaster. It's got a really cool interaction with Courser, Keranos, and all the temples you're using to manipulate the top card to do exactly what you want to do that turn/next upkeep. Yet another suggestion is Sylvan Caryatid. This will speed you up by a turn in matches where the tempo matters and block most of the 1 and 2 drop aggro stuff to buy time, fix colors, also make sure you are able to Plasm Capture turn 3 and drop something nasty turn 4 with mana open to interact yet again if needed.

It could be that your local meta is full of U/W control, or you just really, really want your list to hate on it with a passion, which would explain a lot about why you chose the cards you did, and why your primer comments seem to focus on that matchup, but I think that is a mistake. You really need cheap stuff maindecked to be able to delay aggro damage, and be able to do it reliably. Once you've done that you can easily take over the game with all your powerhouses. Of course that will soften your deck a little bit to the dreaded U/W control, but improve it immensely -vs- most anything else. Your desire to have no dead cards against control means you are gonna suffer for it hard in other matchups. I think the list you've got would play like tap-out control, but with a bunch of key instants, making your play choices awful when facing early beats, as you cannot gain the tempo back to play the tap-out game, and you also cannot just sit back hoping the other guy screws up and plays into your Plasm Capture while you're taking damage, either.

Just my thoughts. I could be totally off on some of my comments in which case I want you to point it out. I obviously haven't tested it, but I'm playing a similar simic deck, so I'm not just talking out of my butt, either. Let's make the deck more awesomer than it already is

I think your list is way too susceptible to early aggro. Some of your card choices are okay, but they are not spectacular in the current meta. A good hand can powerhouse through but your list will lose a lot of steam. It just seems so out of place in some ways. I conjured up a list using some research off strong cards in the current meta and off the top showing decks at PTs, GPTs, and of course FNMs of various types. I brewed up a main deck 60 since the SB will vary depending on tastes. So my sb would be a lot different from others. But here is the list I came up with.




I feel the deck has a lot more utilities than BUG control and keeps the board pretty solid. I want to say the only issue would be creatures like Desecration Demon and Master of The Feasts. So post sideboard I would most like have Rapid Hybridization and another Turn/Burn, and another Bow of Nylea. I also considered using Domestication in the sb as a 2-of. I think Black devotion will be a problem for the deck. But I am sure there is a way to beat it post sideboard. I just haven't figured it out yet. But against the general meta this is a strong list.

Edit: Been playing it on workstation and OH MY GOD. This deck is fun to play. It is doing really well against everything but U/W control. I haven't been sideboarding yet because I do not have one made yet. SO I think that in the control match-up the deck is weak against them. Xenagas is amazing in the list. His mana boosts with his token production is so powerful. Might not be on the Elspeth level, but it definitely adds the pressure two turns sooner than she does. Steam Augury is surprising REALLY good. As it helps dig. I wish I could make room for an Elixir of Immortality but in my opinion when it gets to the point where the game is in our hands, its over for them. I'm loving it.

Been working on and playtesting the decklist. As I play it the more fun I'm having and the better its faces off against a lot of decklists. I've made a lot of changes to the sideboard as it is far from perfected. I have made one change to the mb. I don't seem to have problems game one anymore unless its UW control. Post game 1 vs UW control there are absolutely no issues and they can't handle me :D!

I scratched Ral Zarek from my list for Keranos because of the power level difference. The impact Keranos has on the board is impressive and he is a powerhouse. He turns dead draws worthwhile and he acts as a removal engine as well. Such a strong card thats underrated.

I also think Turn Burn is one of the best removal spells we have.

Here's a RUG list I've been tinkering with for a little while:



The idea behind the deck is to stabilize, get the Prophet of Kruphix and Mercurial Chemister combo online (you get to draw 5 cards to your opponent's 1 when you have one each in play), and then burn through your deck until you draw and resolve Ætherling and/or Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and/or Borborygmos Enraged to end the game (Borborygmos wins by pitching all the land cards you draw with Jace and Chemisters for lethal).

Exactly how competitive it (or some variant of it) is, I'm not sure, but it is an absolute blast to play.

Made some changes, liking it more. Kruphix, God of Horizons was a dead end, added some MD Anger of the Gods to handle the creatures I'm making for my opponent (swan song/rapid hybridization) as well as the aggro matchup. Dirtball, each of my lands except the two forests (which I have now changed to Mana Confluence) produces mana for the weird. Still hesitant to play with Sylvan caryatid, as they die to anger, but that will probably replace the weird next season. Here's what I'm rocking right now:



No longer sold on clan defiance, but it's still proven decently strong, with occasional 2 for 1s or some final damage

Hey guys I have been thinking about a RUG list. Its probably my favorite color combination not sure why but I never really get the opportunity to play it in any format. I have been thinking something like this. What do you you guys think?

Nice list, Shoeless Sir. Solid decision to play Mizzium Mortars with your creature set instead of Anger of the Gods . I've been strongly considering Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra Pyromaster myself lately. I don't think Forgeborn Oreads is on the same power level as the rest of the deck. Maybe Font of Fortunes to replace it if you want another enchantment? Your 4 slot is already kind of stacked. Consider Rapid Hybridization as well, I like it more than turn and burn.

Taken the deck in a slightly different direction, really looking to manipulate the top of my library with Courser of Kruphix and the planeswalkers in colors (Kiora, the Crashing Wave , Jace, the Living Guildpact, and Chandra, Pyromaster ) that let you interact with that top card. Buckled and decided to ramp, so Sylvan Caryatid came off the bench, which forced me to switch sweepers from Anger of the Gods to Mizzium Mortars. The overload costing also pushed me towards more ramp, so I added another Kiora and kept old Ral Zarek around. So now it looks like RUG Superfriends, and it's pretty fun to play. Been lazy with the mana base testing, so I could most likely shave a few Stomping Ground for forests.



Rotation looks like it will be kind to me, probably try out AEtherspouts, Soul of Ravnica, and Keranos, God of Storms along with some other changes. Maybe one of Aggressive Mining or Hammer of Purphoros? I don't need a ton of lands late game. I should really play Nissa, Worldwaker, she seems like a great one or two of. I'll try to pick her up and test.

Dude, I will not lie, I have bramblecrush in the side. I've also considered stoke the flames, but am not quite that desperate yet. Made a significant change recently; with no Nissa, Worldwake on hand to pitch my lands to, I added Ember Swallower. I have been testing four, really committing to the idea of racing ahead of the opponent and cutting off their end game. Only played a Junk Goodstuff deck (6 walkers backed by solid creatures and removal) and boss sligh since new tech, so no control chock full of planeswalkers. However, Counterspells and sweepers to clear the way for combat have been enough so far to keep opposing planeswalkers in check. Against aggro it's nice to have a big body at the four drop instead of a walker that's going to get run over. Not convinced I'll keep it, but it's fun testing. I am convinced Nissa would be a total bomb in this deck. Using Jace TLG +1 followed by Chandra's 0 feels real good, too.

So it's pretty good. It's midrange, I guess, but this thread seemed to be speaking to me. I want to play Keranos, but I'm not sure where. Mizzium Mortars is great but I'm hesitant to take out Stoke the Flames after getting a few wins with it to the dome. I should probably switch back, or at least put Mortars in the board, right?

Maybe I go -1 Horizon Chimera, +1 Xenagos, the Reveler?

Polis Crusher is a beast. I think we all think the card is good, but I never see anyone play it - I love it. It and the Reclamation Sages in the side really solve the artifact/enchantment heavy opposition. Suggestions welcome! Thanks!

I don't think you need mortars in the main, and honestly doubt it has a place in the side for you. You already have burn on turn two if you're facing aggro, as well as caryatid. You continue to clog up the battlefield turn three with a courser; more than likely you'll be able to drop a 4 CMC spell turn three. You have twelve different ways to deal 4 damage to creatures, so I think mortars would be a redundant answer that is dead against control. I've actually dropped mortars from my build as well and have not missed it.

I've gone off the deep end myself: Generator Servant . A strong strategy for me is beating control and midrange opponents to the double spelling stage of the game. Generator servant let's me do that, as well as offering a two mana spell to throw in front of aggro. It let's me cast a walker and keep negate mana up earlier than my opponent, or puts me ahead so I can make ember swallower monstrous and blow up some lands. Here's what I'm playing now:



Izzet Charm is pretty important. I really hope we get a good loot spell in Khans

I like this list a lot, I've been considering playing RUG before the shock lands rotate out. I think this list could use Xenagos, The Reveler and Stormbreath Dragon. I don't see a lot of utility in Generator Servant since you don't really have any big creatures to ramp into, but I could be wrong. 4 Kiora, The Crashing Wave might be a little greedy considering all the burn decks that exist nowadays. Other than that, this list looks very promising considering what we have available in these colors.

I almost always -1 the first kiora, unless the board state convinces me otherwise. If I've got the lands in hand I'll kill her myself. This liberal policy makes me want four, but if you're feeling more conservative, I think Xenagos would be an excellent replacement, maybe even +2 Xenagos, the reveler, -1 Chandra, pyromaster and -1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave.

For reasons stated above, I like generator servant. Getting two turns ahead on mana (granted, a one time use) is powerful in establishing a board presence while also keeping counter mana open. I also play four AEtherspouts in the side, and the servant helps insure I don't stumble on my way to five mana.

I do like your suggestions, though to incorporate them I would take the deck in a slightly different direction. Drop the ember swallower game plan and maybe Jace or Chandra, add Nissa and Stormbreath. Probably keep the generator servant since you have even more at five that you could squeak out on turn three. My affection for ember swallower (and the hosing that going monstrous sprays on Nissa) is too strong right now. The power level of those five drops is inherently higher, but I really like the synergy of my current list

I would say that the main advantage of RUG is that it has a good mix of early protection and late-game resilient threats. The main problem is getting a functional mix of the two that won't collapse from mana issues.
Early protection options include:

• Courser of Kruphix
  
• Sylvan Caryatid
  
• Anger of the Gods
  
• Izzet Charm
  
• Mizzium Mortars
  
• Turn//Burn
  
• Aetherspouts
  

as well various counterspells

Resilient mid-late game

• Keranos, God of Storms
  
• Xenagos, the Reveler
  
• Ral Zarek
  
• Kiora, the Crashing Wave
  
• Nissa Worldwaker
  
• Aetherling

This package gives you a huge advantage g1 against black decks because it doesn't give them any targets for their removal (excluding Downfall). There is also the option to use a more creature-based package.

I do think Xenagos is strong out of the side against control. I'll give it a try. For some reason he's never really spoken to me.

I've played every flavor of UW Control since Innistrad rotated, and let me tell you, anytime a Xenagos, The Reveler hits the board, I start shaking. He's a nightmare not only against control, but for Mono Black as well if they don't see removal. He can also facilitate an overloaded Mizzium Mortars or any other spell you wish to ramp into. I didn't realize the interaction between Ember Swallower and Nissa, Worldwaker . In theory, it sounds really good. I'm gonna try a RUG Control/Midrange list this coming week. I'll post it as soon as I decide what cards to put into it.

So I have now faced down a fair number of walker decks, and you are correct, they are an issue. I was trying to come up with reasonable answers, tell me what you think:

Ghor-Clan Rampager. Bloodrush if my attacker gets blocked, I don't like that I already have to have a creature in play the turn my opponent's walker resolves in order to be most effective.

Stoke the Flames is limited in that it won't take care of the higher loyalty boys

Horizon Chimera can represent counter mana, make the decision to let it resolve and then start attacking in the air

Stormbreath Dragon may be the best answer, but paying five means that they will most likely have another window to jam a different threat

Bramblecrush. The cost and sorcery is my only quibble. Most sure fire answer though


I'm also considering playing more Negate, but we can't catch them all. Right now I am leaning towards Ghor-Clan Rampager and Negate, as they are the cheapest. Please give me your thoughts

I've decided to try a completely different direction for answering resolved planeswalkers: a hasty Soul of Ravnica via Generator Servant. I'd already exchanged one Jace's Ingenuity for a soul as a top end draw, and they play very well with looting and Jace's +1. Going to play 2 Soul of Ravnica and see how I like it

I've been playing RUG control all season. I've got my list down to something I consider extremely effective and competitive:

What kind of results do you have with it lunch? FNM results or anything? Also I don't have the steam vents but have everything else. Any idea what to run to replace those. 2 Shivan reefs and two basics? Or mana confluences or what?

I prefer shivan reef to mana confluence. The fixing is pretty good esp with caryatid so you can usually stick to tapping the pain lands for colourless most of the time.

I haven't been to FNM with this current build (I've changed it regularly over time) but it fares well on MTGO 4mans and whatnot. It's not tier 1 or anything but you win plenty and it's very challenging and rewarding to master. Also, it's really really great against MBD and UW control when played properly, and I just love beating those 2 decks lol

I'm debating on sleeving this up to play for fun this weekend. Any other suggestions? Ok swapping the 4 steam vents to two again reefs and two basics or mana confluences, havent decided what yet.