Since getting back into MTG around a year ago, I have pretty much been playing Junk. Theros got me interesting in some simic flash ideas, but BNG gave us Kiora's Follower. I think this card has some great potentials and is very versatile. However, it wasn't until I thought about how well he combo'd with Desecration Demon did I think about making a BUG midrange deck. The interaction between these cards makes the basic win-condition of the deck. As we all know, an early desecration demon can be a game winner alone, but many top decks feature ways to easily sacrifice a creature and tap him. That is where the follower comes in. Even if you sacrifice a creature to prevent the demon from attacking or blocking, the follower allows you to negate that and untap the demon and allows him to block or attack. This forces opponents to make difficult choices. On top of that interaction, a turn 2 follower into a turn 3 desecration demon is very natural and is not a forced combo.
Creature Choices
Kiora's Follower - One of the foundations of the deck, 4x all the time. Many good uses outside of the demon including ramping and having fun with Bow of Nylea.
Desecration Demon - Another foundation of the deck. Take 4. He is an early 6/6 flyer who basically has no downsides if you have a follower around.
Prophet of Kruphix - This is an interesting card. The abilities of this card are huge. You get all your blockers back, you get all your mana back for instants and you can flash in surprise blockers. Almost makes all of your creatures like Advent of the Wurm. Big downside is the casting cost. 5 cmc is a bit high and it doesn't straight up win you games. But you may be able to drop turn 4 with a follower. I wouldn't take more than 2.
Nightveil Specter - Solid 2/3 flyer with a really nice ability. Can help you ramp and steal some cool cards, but the devotion it generates isn't really useful here. It acts mostly as a decent beater with evasion. Good for slowing down mono-U.
Aetherling - Alternative win-con. Little explanation needed. If you have a Prophet of Kruphix out, basically impossible to kill and really fun to drop at the end of your opponents turn. I would take 1-2.
Deathrite Shaman - Great modern card, decent standard card. If there were some form of fetches around or if lands found their way to graveyards more I would want him a lot more. He could easily keep you alive if necessary and prevent shenanigans with a Whip of Erebos, he can also peck away at people pretty effectively. Not to mention with a Kiora's Follower out, he could easily do 4 dmg per turn for 2xB. Not sure if he is an auto-include, but definitely worth considering.
Experiment One - Tried and true. Really would want to include him to get a beater on the field early.
Cloudfin Raptor - Mono-U showed how good this card can be. Pretty much the same as Experiment One, include if you want to get an early beater on the field.
Dreg Mangler - Great aggressive card. Doesn't stand up to cards like Loxodon Smiter but still can swing for 3 quick, and the scavenge ability can come in handy.
Courser of Kruphix - Nice new card from BNG. The life gain with land can come in handy and help mitigate the damage from shocks and thoughtseizes. The deck thinning is nice too!
Planeswalkers
Kiora, The Crashing Wave - I am not sure what to think about her. Her ultimate is kind of nuts. Her ability to protect herself is so-so and her -1 is really nice. The only problem is she only has 2 counters to start. I have 1 in my deck because I feel I should, but I am not sure she wins games.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Great early walker that can really mess people up. She helps keep creatures off the opponents side of the battlefield and might grab a few gems for us.
Vraska the Unseen - I have always loved Vraska. She has won me many games with her ultimate and I know many people just view her as a 5cmc destroy target permanent. I feel she is more of a sideboard card incase you need more removal or are facing control.
Jace, Architect of Thought - Amazing card, but is built a bit more for control decks I think. I haven't included any (I don;t have any either).
Hero's Downfall - Double B makes it a bit harder to play, but we are shooting for a Desecration Demon on T3 anyway. If your meta has a lot of walkers I would include at least 2.
Putrefy - One of my personal favorite removal cards. Kills bidents and whips, which are a plenty in the mono-U and mono-B decks. I have 2 in my deck.
Curse of the Swine - Coming from Junk I didn't really have this card on my radar, but it can be a great sweaper for us. Since we have a potential solid collection of flyers, getting rid threats and replacing them with 2/2 boars could be a big deal. I would consider 1-2. Removal for Gods and BBoV.
Drown in Sorrow - New small sweaper from BNG. Could be good since we have some larger creatures, but it would kill our followers, which play an important role in this deck.
Bile Blight - I really like this card, I am just not sure where it fits in yet. On the outside it looks like a great kill card and could help with pack rats and token hordes. I think this is a SB card for now, but as things develop that may very much change.
Far // Away - Really useful card with lots of good options. The edict effect can be great for dealing with gods, and being able to bounce a Master of Waves to kill some tokens can be handy.
Utility Golgari Charm - Really messes up mono-U. Protects us from sweepers and removal and can be a mini-sweeper. Lots more bestow cards around, so it can act as straight removal too. I would have 3-4.
Simic Charm - More protection from removal for us. The bounce is handy and combat tricks are always nice. I run 2.
Thoughtseize - Best discard card ever printed. We are running a lot of shock lands, so the extra life loss may be hard, but it can totally wreck a good hand. I would have 2-3.
Bow of Nylea - Great utility artifact. With Kiora's Follower can be used to gain 6 life, take down an x/4 flyer (silly Chromanticore), put +2/+2 on a creature or I guess recycle some cards in your graveyard. I put 2 in my deck.
Counters - I don't run any MD, but they could be SB cards or used if you want a bit more control
I've jumped onto this deck for reasons (basically, I was playing RDW, but was sick of auto-losing to Blue). Glad to see a thread for this, thanks for getting it started Complex Pants! Here is my current list.
I've really liked it so far, it feels like it has game against the top decks (UW, MBD, MUD, RG). It can have problems against decks that pack A LOT of hard removal (like jund midrange, with putrefy, downfall, dreadbore, etc...), and it floods out from time to time, which is going to happen.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
Looking at your deck I am wondering what you use Kiora's Follower for? You have no "good" targets for it. It seems that it is just a 2CMC mana dork, and I a not sure if you need 8 mana dorks.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Looking at your deck I am wondering what you use Kiora's Follower for? You have no "good" targets for it. It seems that it is just a 2CMC mana dork, and I a not sure if you need 8 mana dorks.
I realize that this is more a statement of people not realizing what the card does, but I've blown some many people out untapping a big guy (usually with a herald on it). My deck in particular is all about playing 4 drops on turn 3, so I like having a second dork and especially a second dork that can make other colors than green and that I don't usually have to shock myself for(looking at you mystic). I can also side out caryatids against control and don't lose that ability to ramp if needed. Lastly, randomly untapping a whip is just icing.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
I started off with a BUG Control shell, but found the creatures too profitable to not run.
This deck just focuses on ramping to 4 and having backup plans on the 3rd curve. Gaze of Granite shines here since you can nuke their =<3 CMC permanents.
It also boards into an aggressive control build against mirrors and other control archetype, I also wanna try to fit atleast 3 Syncopate against RG along with Lifebane.
I like that list a lot. How do you find the reapers working? I played them in my junk decks, but always found them a bit underwhelming. Always seemed to need a lot of mana to keep them alive.
I might start building that list after Jace drops in price when the dual deck gets released.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Reapers act a lot like the Olivia Voldaren of the format. Drop it with 6 mana available to make it resilient.
While I get what you are going for, that is a very brave statement to make considering Reaper's powerlevel. I do agree however that Reaper IS solid and does what he does well.
One starts to see some patterns forming in the whispers and comments about this type of build and I think we can agree on what could possible be a solid base to build from:
Sylvan Caryatid
Courser of Kruphix
Polukranos, World Eater
Reaper of the Wilds
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
and efficient removal/disruption
For the record, this is what I'm working with atm:
I'm really digging the list so far and my only real gripe would be that I don't know if the potential explosive starts that Elvish Mystic fuels is worth being everyone's least favorite top deck, variance being a cruel mistress and all. I'll most likely test between switching up Mystic with Mutavaults to edge myself in control MU's, extra utility slots or just more land, probably more black sources at that.
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@TOG have you considered desecration demon? I'm currently running demons with kiora's follower (no polu, reaper and sphinx) and it's been quite successful though I've only tried it in a few games. people can no longer tap the demon down with the followers. I'm just not sure whether this cute interaction is good enough for me to keep polukranos out of the deck
I might try the Mystic instead of the Kiora's Follower, but like x4ander said Kiora's Follower not only interacts well with Desecration it also untaps any other creature that we play.
I'd much rather see Ultimate Price in place of Doom Blade, in this current format a lot our dangerous threats are monocolored.
Ashiok in the main is really hit or miss for me. I prefer to only see her against the Control matchup so she's in the side.
How has Prognostic Sphinx worked for you? How confident are you that you won the game after playing that card?
BUG Midrange is a very formidable prospect that has potential to climb into a top8 of a major event. The Standard SCG Open featured a BUG Control match, so who knows.
@TOG have you considered desecration demon? I'm currently running demons with kiora's follower (no polu, reaper and sphinx) and it's been quite successful though I've only tried it in a few games. people can no longer tap the demon down with the followers. I'm just not sure whether this cute interaction is good enough for me to keep polukranos out of the deck
Demon + Follower seems cute but not really all that powerful to be honest. The reason I went with the creature suite I did is that they're either able to protect themselves in some way or they provide incremental advantages throughout the course of the game. Demon is not necessarily wrong but it is more vulnerable in a meta prepared for it. Ultimate Price/ Dark Betrayal, Plummet, Selesnya Charm, Detention Sphere, Act of Treason out of Rx aggro, Banishes Priest out of Wx swarms, Brimaz...etc etc. All of these answers are ways in which to interact with the demon, some popular, some not, but notice how potentially all of those removal blanks on Prognostic Sphinx and you start seeing where I'm coming from.
As for my removal suite, Doom Blade is simply better than Ultimate Price. You are edging your chances in 30 percent of the metagame, a percentage that is dropping mind you. Ultimate Price might be better against Bx but Doom Blade is better in the other 70% you're likely to face and notably takes care of Mutavault. If I really felt concerned about the Mono B mirror I would add a few Betrayals to my board, not weaken my removal against the greater part of the field.
Similar to Jund in INS, the elves provide you with some explosive starts although like I said I'm not sure if that warrants possible drawing them later in the game. There's a lot of small synergies going on with all the scrying this deck can do and the list really has a grindy nature because of it. Courser scy's land/removal/threats to the top and Kiora accelerates them. Reaper dodges Mortars, Ultimate Price and most targeted removal if you have mana open and subsequently provides a valuable scry engine. World Eater dominates creature mirrors and Prognostic Sphinx's scry ability gets you relevant gas to the top while being generally unkillable by anything that would not kill anything anyway, think Devour Flesh or Supreme Verdict.
I will say that Kiora has proved fantastic and I'd really like to up my count on her, possible cutting one Ashiok or a single Sylvan. She reaches critical mass a lot faster than most decks are prepared for and with all the scry'ing and Courser shenanigans going on can really dig you towards what you need at a generally fast speed.
This list is very much under construction so numbers are subject to change. So far I've only tested against aggressive variants and Mono B and UW. Against aggro I feel pretty favored and similarly so against the more recent, non Elixir UW list. I have not played that many games agains Mono B but that is a very grindy MU in of itself so I would really like to get more games in against them, before I start changing configurations too much.
GR feels favored so far, that deck does not like multiple Doom Blades and post board you can outright race them with Zombies/Kiora while leaning on your removal package.
Edit: After some more play testing sessions here's where I'm at currently:
I've removed the two Devour Fleshes in favor of upping my Kiora count and adding Simic Charm/Ultimate Price to my 75. MY biggest reason for wanting DF was as a hedge against Blood Baron of Vizkopa but after some further testing I've deemed that unnecessary as Prognostic Sphinx, World Eater, Kiora, Far/Away all gives me outs against that angle of attack while also just being good all purpose spells in their own right. Simic Charm has proved to be a fantastic addition as a miser as it just provides so much utility as both a tempo play and protecting your permanents. Ultimate Price is a concession to Mono Black although mostly it acts as Doom Blade number 5 against GR or just aggressive lists in general.
I played W/u devotion and won 2-1. Played Mono-Blue and lost 0-2 (he had the nuts in game one after I mulled to five). Played some random Rakdos deck with what would normally be sideboard cards in the main deck (pithing needles, slaughter games, etc.) and won. Played against RUG midrange and lost (cyclonic rift blew me out).
Made top 8 and played against Jund and won both games on the back of aetherling. The singleton Gaze straight up won me game 3 because I gazed all of his threats and basically left him empty handed.
Played the same mono-blue in Top 4 and lost game one, but won the back of lots of removal game 2 and him just bricking hard in game 3, i was able to take it down.
Played the W/u devotion deck again and was able to take it in three for the playmat.
Overall, I really liked the negates out of the board. They were amazing every time I saw them. Also, courser was just plain bad today, so I think, since there is no mono-black around me, I will main 2 doom blades instead. Probably will cut the herald of torments as well, but those fit a specific role (flying) so I don't quite know what to make them. That is the fun though, tinkering.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
Hoogland's new take on the deck is definitely more solid and as much of a proponent of Nightmare Weaver I am myself, I, like Jeff, cannot bring myself to currently include this card in any of my lists seriously, simply due to it's high variance. Ahiok CAN be very good but in a standard environment dominated by consistency it is an inconsistent threat and that is not what I'm currently after.
Moving Lifebane Zombies to the mainboard is actually a fantastic idea and I fully expect a culling of Specter to crop up around Mono Black in droves as the card is anaemic against non Bx lists while providing marginal upside versus control mirrors.
Courser remains really solid and one of the cornerstones holding the deck together. As for Sphinx...I'll be honest and say I'm less exited about. Sphinx is currently one of the best threats in this type of shell but leads the deck to be very slow and clunky and ultimately contributes to the list's grindy nature. After 2 consecutive strong FNM showings my opinion of the deck is that it is very synergistic, lends itself to tighter play than most lists I've recently piloted but lacks a powerful end game outside of locking down a game with Kiora/Sphinx and backing it up with disruption/removal.
TLDR:
Deck is solid and some interactions like Courser+Connections+Kiora+Sphinx are good but not necessarily powerful in of themselves, especially being compared to a field of Gods, Demons and Dragons. That said it's adaptable, rewords good play and loads of fun so give it a go.
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I agree that the sphinx's are clunky and I'm looking for something else. They are hard to kill and work great with the draw package so maybe they stay. I'm not sure I don't want at least one aetherling MD instead of one of the sphinxs.
Well sure they're slow, but that's more a testament to these colors more than anything. Sphinx is about as good as it gets baring Aetherling, and that card is all but anemic against a field where people are overrunning you with Rats, small evasive creatures and Demons and Dragons. Aetherling seems better suited to either sideboard duty or in lists with higher land counts and that are more counter heavy and even then I'd be hard pressed to include him over other, more relevant threats. You already have access to Mistcutters against UW and Mono U and the aforementioned Sphinxes against Mono Bx, and that's arguably the only MU I'd really want him in.
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In the link I posted above, Jeff Hoogland had 2 World Eaters in his deck before. In the comments at the bottom of the article a reader mentioned that instead of World Eaters, change them to Deadbridge Goliath. The Goliath is still a 5/5 4cmc beater to apply pressure (its not likely you monstrous World Eater anyways). When the Goliath dies you can then later scavenge him to Sphinx to actually make Sphinx an awesome beater that's hard to remove. Then in these colors we get Golgari Charm and now they can't even board wipe Sphinx away.
Kiora's Follower is my favorite card. So often, curving Follower into Demon is good game. Also, untapping things can be quite important. Tidebinder Mage becomes much less a big deal.
I know Corpsejack and Kalonian Hydra seem janky, but they're so fun, and they actually do a lot of work:
A: Raptor into caryatid/follower into Menace gives 3/4 flyer (and likely to get bigger).
B: caryatid/follower into Menace into Kalonian gives swing on turn 5 with 24/24 trampler.
C: Whip of Erebos gives extra bites at Magical Christmas land. My favorite so far is two Menace's out, top decking Whip, play and whip out Hydra, swing for 80 trample.
D: Kalonian Hydra by itself usually kills in two attacks. Sometimes one attack if you have a Raptor or Troll with counters.
Nevertheless, replacing the Menace and Hydra with some number of Polukranos, Reaper, Sphinx might be more consistent.
I also like Deadbridge Goliath over Polukranos in this deck, to be honest. Deadbridge fills a similar role to Polukranos as a cheap fatty, but lacks the Monstrosity effect. Due to our wide gamut of removal, I don't really think the Polukranos monstrosity ability is as important. Deadbridge Goliath is a great card to pitch for Prognostic Sphinx's Hexproof ability, and also doubles up as having Sphinx as a great target to Scavenge onto.
I played that combo inside my UG Midrange list, but I really don't think there's enough space inside of a BUG Midrange list for Bow. We have a lot of really good cards from Black that Bow is really unnecessary. The removal that the Polukranos/Bow combo nets is likely less powerful than using those card slots for just straight up removal in the form of Abrupt Decay, Putrefy, Hero's Downfall, etc.
But if you insist on playing Polukranos, then I do think you should play Bow of Nylea. I just disagree in thinking that's where we want to be with this deck.
Since getting back into MTG around a year ago, I have pretty much been playing Junk. Theros got me interesting in some simic flash ideas, but BNG gave us Kiora's Follower. I think this card has some great potentials and is very versatile. However, it wasn't until I thought about how well he combo'd with Desecration Demon did I think about making a BUG midrange deck. The interaction between these cards makes the basic win-condition of the deck. As we all know, an early desecration demon can be a game winner alone, but many top decks feature ways to easily sacrifice a creature and tap him. That is where the follower comes in. Even if you sacrifice a creature to prevent the demon from attacking or blocking, the follower allows you to negate that and untap the demon and allows him to block or attack. This forces opponents to make difficult choices. On top of that interaction, a turn 2 follower into a turn 3 desecration demon is very natural and is not a forced combo.
Creature Choices
Kiora's Follower - One of the foundations of the deck, 4x all the time. Many good uses outside of the demon including ramping and having fun with Bow of Nylea.
Desecration Demon - Another foundation of the deck. Take 4. He is an early 6/6 flyer who basically has no downsides if you have a follower around.
Prophet of Kruphix - This is an interesting card. The abilities of this card are huge. You get all your blockers back, you get all your mana back for instants and you can flash in surprise blockers. Almost makes all of your creatures like Advent of the Wurm. Big downside is the casting cost. 5 cmc is a bit high and it doesn't straight up win you games. But you may be able to drop turn 4 with a follower. I wouldn't take more than 2.
Nightveil Specter - Solid 2/3 flyer with a really nice ability. Can help you ramp and steal some cool cards, but the devotion it generates isn't really useful here. It acts mostly as a decent beater with evasion. Good for slowing down mono-U.
Aetherling - Alternative win-con. Little explanation needed. If you have a Prophet of Kruphix out, basically impossible to kill and really fun to drop at the end of your opponents turn. I would take 1-2.
Deathrite Shaman - Great modern card, decent standard card. If there were some form of fetches around or if lands found their way to graveyards more I would want him a lot more. He could easily keep you alive if necessary and prevent shenanigans with a Whip of Erebos, he can also peck away at people pretty effectively. Not to mention with a Kiora's Follower out, he could easily do 4 dmg per turn for 2xB. Not sure if he is an auto-include, but definitely worth considering.
Experiment One - Tried and true. Really would want to include him to get a beater on the field early.
Cloudfin Raptor - Mono-U showed how good this card can be. Pretty much the same as Experiment One, include if you want to get an early beater on the field.
Dreg Mangler - Great aggressive card. Doesn't stand up to cards like Loxodon Smiter but still can swing for 3 quick, and the scavenge ability can come in handy.
Courser of Kruphix - Nice new card from BNG. The life gain with land can come in handy and help mitigate the damage from shocks and thoughtseizes. The deck thinning is nice too!
Planeswalkers
Kiora, The Crashing Wave - I am not sure what to think about her. Her ultimate is kind of nuts. Her ability to protect herself is so-so and her -1 is really nice. The only problem is she only has 2 counters to start. I have 1 in my deck because I feel I should, but I am not sure she wins games.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Great early walker that can really mess people up. She helps keep creatures off the opponents side of the battlefield and might grab a few gems for us.
Vraska the Unseen - I have always loved Vraska. She has won me many games with her ultimate and I know many people just view her as a 5cmc destroy target permanent. I feel she is more of a sideboard card incase you need more removal or are facing control.
Jace, Architect of Thought - Amazing card, but is built a bit more for control decks I think. I haven't included any (I don;t have any either).
Spells
Removal
Abrupt Decay - Incredible card. Run 3-4.
Doom Blade - Great card as well, but a little less useful with all of the mono-B running around. I would look to Hero's Downfall, Ultimate Price or Putrefy instead.
Ultimate Price - Better than Doom Blade in the current meta of mono-U and mono-B.
Hero's Downfall - Double B makes it a bit harder to play, but we are shooting for a Desecration Demon on T3 anyway. If your meta has a lot of walkers I would include at least 2.
Putrefy - One of my personal favorite removal cards. Kills bidents and whips, which are a plenty in the mono-U and mono-B decks. I have 2 in my deck.
Curse of the Swine - Coming from Junk I didn't really have this card on my radar, but it can be a great sweaper for us. Since we have a potential solid collection of flyers, getting rid threats and replacing them with 2/2 boars could be a big deal. I would consider 1-2. Removal for Gods and BBoV.
Drown in Sorrow - New small sweaper from BNG. Could be good since we have some larger creatures, but it would kill our followers, which play an important role in this deck.
Bile Blight - I really like this card, I am just not sure where it fits in yet. On the outside it looks like a great kill card and could help with pack rats and token hordes. I think this is a SB card for now, but as things develop that may very much change.
Far // Away - Really useful card with lots of good options. The edict effect can be great for dealing with gods, and being able to bounce a Master of Waves to kill some tokens can be handy.
Utility
Golgari Charm - Really messes up mono-U. Protects us from sweepers and removal and can be a mini-sweeper. Lots more bestow cards around, so it can act as straight removal too. I would have 3-4.
Simic Charm - More protection from removal for us. The bounce is handy and combat tricks are always nice. I run 2.
Thoughtseize - Best discard card ever printed. We are running a lot of shock lands, so the extra life loss may be hard, but it can totally wreck a good hand. I would have 2-3.
Bow of Nylea - Great utility artifact. With Kiora's Follower can be used to gain 6 life, take down an x/4 flyer (silly Chromanticore), put +2/+2 on a creature or I guess recycle some cards in your graveyard. I put 2 in my deck.
Counters - I don't run any MD, but they could be SB cards or used if you want a bit more control
Plasm Capture - Mana Drain reborn. Not sure there is anything we will need that much mana for, but in combo with Prophet of Kruphix it could be fun. Could make for some large Mistcutter Hydras though.
Gainsay - SB card against Mono-U.
Dissolve - Hard counter with scry. The double blue may be hard early on.
Negate - Tried and true. Good against control decks.
Essence Scatter - Also tried and true, good against aggro decks.
Card Draw
Read the Bones - Great digging draw spell, but 2 life may be a hefty price without a lot of regen.
Urban Evolution - Diggs deep and can help you get some extra land out. Not sure if this is better or worse than other options
Underworld Connections - Great recurrent draw spell, but slow and the life lost can be costly.
Divination - Vanilla card draw. 2 cards for 3 mana, nothing more to explain.
Sample Deck Lists
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Desecration Demon
2 Prophet of Kruphix
3 Nightveil Specter
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Aetherling
Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Golgari Charm
2 Simic Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Putrefy
2 Urban Evolution
1 Kiora, The Crashing Wave
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Artifact
2 Bow of Nylea
Land
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding Pool
2 Temple of Mystery
5 Forest
1 Island
4 Swamp
I'll try to keep this updated. Thanks!
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Watery Grave
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Forest
2 Swamp
Creatures 23
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Kiora's Follower
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Herald of Torment
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Deadbridge Goliath
1 Aetherling
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Abrupt Decay
Planeswalkers 3
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Vraska the Unseen
Enchantments 2
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Gaze of Granite
4 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Notion Thief
1 Unravel the Aether
I've really liked it so far, it feels like it has game against the top decks (UW, MBD, MUD, RG). It can have problems against decks that pack A LOT of hard removal (like jund midrange, with putrefy, downfall, dreadbore, etc...), and it floods out from time to time, which is going to happen.
Looking at your deck I am wondering what you use Kiora's Follower for? You have no "good" targets for it. It seems that it is just a 2CMC mana dork, and I a not sure if you need 8 mana dorks.
I realize that this is more a statement of people not realizing what the card does, but I've blown some many people out untapping a big guy (usually with a herald on it). My deck in particular is all about playing 4 drops on turn 3, so I like having a second dork and especially a second dork that can make other colors than green and that I don't usually have to shock myself for(looking at you mystic). I can also side out caryatids against control and don't lose that ability to ramp if needed. Lastly, randomly untapping a whip is just icing.
This deck just focuses on ramping to 4 and having backup plans on the 3rd curve. Gaze of Granite shines here since you can nuke their =<3 CMC permanents.
It also boards into an aggressive control build against mirrors and other control archetype, I also wanna try to fit atleast 3 Syncopate against RG along with Lifebane.
Anyway, here's the list.
3 Kiora's Follower
3 Desecration Demon
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Reaper of the Wilds
1 AEtherling
3 Courser of Kruphix
Planeswalkers 5 //
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Spells 12 //
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
2 Gaze of Granite
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Deceit
3 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Notion Thief
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Gainsay
3 Syncopate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
I might start building that list after Jace drops in price when the dual deck gets released.
While I get what you are going for, that is a very brave statement to make considering Reaper's powerlevel. I do agree however that Reaper IS solid and does what he does well.
One starts to see some patterns forming in the whispers and comments about this type of build and I think we can agree on what could possible be a solid base to build from:
Sylvan Caryatid
Courser of Kruphix
Polukranos, World Eater
Reaper of the Wilds
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
and efficient removal/disruption
For the record, this is what I'm working with atm:
2 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Other Spells (13)
1 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
1 Devour Flesh
2 Far
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Doom Blade
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Devour Flesh
1 Golgari Charm
3 Duress
1 Pithing Needle
I'm really digging the list so far and my only real gripe would be that I don't know if the potential explosive starts that Elvish Mystic fuels is worth being everyone's least favorite top deck, variance being a cruel mistress and all. I'll most likely test between switching up Mystic with Mutavaults to edge myself in control MU's, extra utility slots or just more land, probably more black sources at that.
I might try the Mystic instead of the Kiora's Follower, but like x4ander said Kiora's Follower not only interacts well with Desecration it also untaps any other creature that we play.
I'd much rather see Ultimate Price in place of Doom Blade, in this current format a lot our dangerous threats are monocolored.
Ashiok in the main is really hit or miss for me. I prefer to only see her against the Control matchup so she's in the side.
How has Prognostic Sphinx worked for you? How confident are you that you won the game after playing that card?
BUG Midrange is a very formidable prospect that has potential to climb into a top8 of a major event. The Standard SCG Open featured a BUG Control match, so who knows.
Demon + Follower seems cute but not really all that powerful to be honest. The reason I went with the creature suite I did is that they're either able to protect themselves in some way or they provide incremental advantages throughout the course of the game. Demon is not necessarily wrong but it is more vulnerable in a meta prepared for it. Ultimate Price/ Dark Betrayal, Plummet, Selesnya Charm, Detention Sphere, Act of Treason out of Rx aggro, Banishes Priest out of Wx swarms, Brimaz...etc etc. All of these answers are ways in which to interact with the demon, some popular, some not, but notice how potentially all of those removal blanks on Prognostic Sphinx and you start seeing where I'm coming from.
As for my removal suite, Doom Blade is simply better than Ultimate Price. You are edging your chances in 30 percent of the metagame, a percentage that is dropping mind you. Ultimate Price might be better against Bx but Doom Blade is better in the other 70% you're likely to face and notably takes care of Mutavault. If I really felt concerned about the Mono B mirror I would add a few Betrayals to my board, not weaken my removal against the greater part of the field.
Similar to Jund in INS, the elves provide you with some explosive starts although like I said I'm not sure if that warrants possible drawing them later in the game. There's a lot of small synergies going on with all the scrying this deck can do and the list really has a grindy nature because of it. Courser scy's land/removal/threats to the top and Kiora accelerates them. Reaper dodges Mortars, Ultimate Price and most targeted removal if you have mana open and subsequently provides a valuable scry engine. World Eater dominates creature mirrors and Prognostic Sphinx's scry ability gets you relevant gas to the top while being generally unkillable by anything that would not kill anything anyway, think Devour Flesh or Supreme Verdict.
I will say that Kiora has proved fantastic and I'd really like to up my count on her, possible cutting one Ashiok or a single Sylvan. She reaches critical mass a lot faster than most decks are prepared for and with all the scry'ing and Courser shenanigans going on can really dig you towards what you need at a generally fast speed.
This list is very much under construction so numbers are subject to change. So far I've only tested against aggressive variants and Mono B and UW. Against aggro I feel pretty favored and similarly so against the more recent, non Elixir UW list. I have not played that many games agains Mono B but that is a very grindy MU in of itself so I would really like to get more games in against them, before I start changing configurations too much.
GR feels favored so far, that deck does not like multiple Doom Blades and post board you can outright race them with Zombies/Kiora while leaning on your removal package.
Edit: After some more play testing sessions here's where I'm at currently:
2 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers (5)
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Other Spells (13)
1 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
1 Simic Charm
2 Far
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Doom Blade
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ultimate Price
1 Golgari Charm
3 Duress
1 Pithing Needle
I've removed the two Devour Fleshes in favor of upping my Kiora count and adding Simic Charm/Ultimate Price to my 75. MY biggest reason for wanting DF was as a hedge against Blood Baron of Vizkopa but after some further testing I've deemed that unnecessary as Prognostic Sphinx, World Eater, Kiora, Far/Away all gives me outs against that angle of attack while also just being good all purpose spells in their own right. Simic Charm has proved to be a fantastic addition as a miser as it just provides so much utility as both a tempo play and protecting your permanents. Ultimate Price is a concession to Mono Black although mostly it acts as Doom Blade number 5 against GR or just aggressive lists in general.
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Forest
1 Swamp
Creatures 23
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Kiora's Follower
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Herald of Torment
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Deadbridge Goliath
1 Aetherling
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Abrupt Decay
Planeswalkers 3
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Vraska the Unseen
Enchantments 2
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Gaze of Granite
4 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Negate
1 Unravel the Aether
I played W/u devotion and won 2-1. Played Mono-Blue and lost 0-2 (he had the nuts in game one after I mulled to five). Played some random Rakdos deck with what would normally be sideboard cards in the main deck (pithing needles, slaughter games, etc.) and won. Played against RUG midrange and lost (cyclonic rift blew me out).
Made top 8 and played against Jund and won both games on the back of aetherling. The singleton Gaze straight up won me game 3 because I gazed all of his threats and basically left him empty handed.
Played the same mono-blue in Top 4 and lost game one, but won the back of lots of removal game 2 and him just bricking hard in game 3, i was able to take it down.
Played the W/u devotion deck again and was able to take it in three for the playmat.
Overall, I really liked the negates out of the board. They were amazing every time I saw them. Also, courser was just plain bad today, so I think, since there is no mono-black around me, I will main 2 doom blades instead. Probably will cut the herald of torments as well, but those fit a specific role (flying) so I don't quite know what to make them. That is the fun though, tinkering.
from jeff hoogland, i think he's a great player/deck brewer. interesting deck and article
Moving Lifebane Zombies to the mainboard is actually a fantastic idea and I fully expect a culling of Specter to crop up around Mono Black in droves as the card is anaemic against non Bx lists while providing marginal upside versus control mirrors.
Courser remains really solid and one of the cornerstones holding the deck together. As for Sphinx...I'll be honest and say I'm less exited about. Sphinx is currently one of the best threats in this type of shell but leads the deck to be very slow and clunky and ultimately contributes to the list's grindy nature. After 2 consecutive strong FNM showings my opinion of the deck is that it is very synergistic, lends itself to tighter play than most lists I've recently piloted but lacks a powerful end game outside of locking down a game with Kiora/Sphinx and backing it up with disruption/removal.
TLDR:
Deck is solid and some interactions like Courser+Connections+Kiora+Sphinx are good but not necessarily powerful in of themselves, especially being compared to a field of Gods, Demons and Dragons. That said it's adaptable, rewords good play and loads of fun so give it a go.
I agree that the sphinx's are clunky and I'm looking for something else. They are hard to kill and work great with the draw package so maybe they stay. I'm not sure I don't want at least one aetherling MD instead of one of the sphinxs.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Desecration Demon
3 Corpsejack Menace
4 Kalonian Hydra
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Whip of Erebos
Spells
2 Curse of the Swine
2 Far and Away
Land
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Breeding Pool
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
2 Forest
2 Island
Observations:
Kiora's Follower is my favorite card. So often, curving Follower into Demon is good game. Also, untapping things can be quite important. Tidebinder Mage becomes much less a big deal.
I know Corpsejack and Kalonian Hydra seem janky, but they're so fun, and they actually do a lot of work:
A: Raptor into caryatid/follower into Menace gives 3/4 flyer (and likely to get bigger).
B: caryatid/follower into Menace into Kalonian gives swing on turn 5 with 24/24 trampler.
C: Whip of Erebos gives extra bites at Magical Christmas land. My favorite so far is two Menace's out, top decking Whip, play and whip out Hydra, swing for 80 trample.
D: Kalonian Hydra by itself usually kills in two attacks. Sometimes one attack if you have a Raptor or Troll with counters.
Nevertheless, replacing the Menace and Hydra with some number of Polukranos, Reaper, Sphinx might be more consistent.
*
But if you insist on playing Polukranos, then I do think you should play Bow of Nylea. I just disagree in thinking that's where we want to be with this deck.