Esper Humans was first played by Shota Takao to a 2nd Place finish at GP Shizouka in December 2013. The deck blends components of the W/b Humans deck piloted by Ben Stark/Team CFB and the core board control elements from U/W/x control. The deck is very versatile and can move between semi-aggressive to a full control role post-sideboard.
Why play Esper Humans?
When interviewed during GP Shizouka, Takao was clear about the deck taking square aim at the three big players in the tournament: Mono Black Devotion, Mono Blue Devotion, and U/W control. Against devotion strategies, the deck leverages Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere to keep the opponent from reaching critical mass. Against U/W/x control, Xathrid Necromancer and Obzedat, Ghost Council provide difficult to answer threats that can often take over the game.
Card Choices
Creatures:
Soldier of the Pantheon Unquestionably the best 1-drop human in the format. Great at pressuring slow decks on early turns and a solid defensive option later in the game against the multitude of multi-color creatures in the format. Don't forget your life gain triggers!
1Imposing Sovereign Against the relevant matchups, the presence of a Sovereign on the board will often give you the breathing room needed to reach the late game. Great against any deck with Haste creatures and Red Devotion. 1 is the easiest combination of mana for this deck to achieve on turn 2.
1Daring Skyjek The most aggressive of the two mana humans, Daring Skyjek allows you to apply early pressure against decks that do not present a blocker on turn 3. Scales reasonably well into the late game as batallion can come into play. Having 1 toughness makes the deck even more vulnerable to cards like Profit // Loss, Shrivel and Electrickery however.
1Thrill-Kill Assassin This lowly assassin has not seen much play in tournament lists, but does provide a viable option, especially if used defensively. Important to note that if unleashed can attack favorably into Mutavault which can be very relevant in matches where Supreme Verdict is used.
1Omenspeaker A recent addition to my deck, Omenspeaker fills the role of an early effective road block for agro very well. The ability to scry 2 is especially powerful to hit critical land drops and spells. Makes a great Whip reanimation target later in the game if you need to dig. A versatile human who can typically remain in the deck post-sideboard due to the utility.
:symw::symb: Cartel Aristocrat Originally a 1-of in Takao's list, Cartel Aristocrat can provide a solid defensive option later in the game. Combos particularly well with any decks that run Soul Ransom.
:symw::symb: Vizkopa Guildmage Another solid option in the 2cmc slot. Often seen as a 1-of or possibly 2-of in some lists. Combos well with Obzedat, Whip, and provides value as a creature without having to directly attack or block.
2Xathrid Necromancer Xathrid is the core synergy in the deck with the amount of humans we play. Can make attacking or blocking favorably very difficult for your opponent. Plays very nicely with or against Supreme Verdict.
1:symw::symu: Lyev Skyknight The most efficient and aggressive human at 3cmc, Skyknight is a key component to the creature base. Extremely effective at detaining and then taking down opposing planeswalkers. Also trades with Nightveil Specter which can be difficult to beat if left unchecked.
1:symw::symb: Sin Collector Typically seen in sideboards, Sin Collector is very effective in Esper Humans against any decks with a decent amount of instants or sorceries. A core component of the strategy against U/W/x control.
2:symb::symb: Desecration Demon The most efficient and powerful 4-drop creature in the format is very difficult for most decks to deal with. Often ends games if allowed to swing with a Whip of Erebos in play.
2:symb::symb: Liliana's Reaver Some lists have been popping up online with Reaver as an alternative to Desecration Demon. Unfortunately, he is completely shut down by the likes of Boros Reckoner or even a Daring Skyjek. Does make a great target for Whip of Erebos reanimation.
1:symw::symw::symb::symb: Obzedat, Ghost Council Ghost Dad is the best card in your deck in the U/W control matchups. Combos very well with Whip of Erebos and can often end games by himself. Most decks run 3-of in the main. Do not be afraid to attack with Obzedat and then play a second copy from your hand to gain additional life and have another blocker if needed.
3:symw::symb: Blood Baron of Vizkopa Relegated to the sideboard in most lists, Blood Baron provides a potent threat to many strong decks in the format. Especially powerful against any White Weenie variants, mirror matches, and mono black devotion.
Spells:
Thoughtseize Possibly the most powerful card in standard. The shocklands needed to play creatures on curve is the most notable deterrent to playing them in the main deck.
1Doom Blade Ubiquitous black removal spell. Typically plays one in the main deck as it can still kill Mutavault against Mono Black. Great sideboard card.
:symw::symb: Orzhov Charm Versatile card as all three modes can be applicable. Very useful to flash in Soldier of the Pantheon, save one of your creatures from removal, or deal with an opposing threat.
:symu::symb: Dimir Charm Less useful currently because there are not very many Sorceries being played that are problematic. Will become a very strong option if Anger of the Gods begins to see more play.
1:symb::symb: Hero's Downfall Typically outshined by Detention Sphere, Downfall does show up occasionally in a few lists. A very powerful card, but often difficult to get double-black on turn 3.
1:symw::symu: Detention Sphere Probably the best reason this deck is playing Blue to begin with. Can deal with any non-land permanent on the board (except another D-sphere). Would not recommend playing with less than 4.
1:symw::symw::symu: Supreme Verdict Supreme Verdict is often a mixed bag in this particular deck, but it can provide immense value and often turn what looks to be a losing game into your advantage. Obvious synergy with Xathrid Necromancer often resulting in a few zombies on your side and nothing on theirs. Can be difficult to cast at times due to mana requirements. Typically 2 are run in the main deck and potentially more in the sideboard.
2:symb::symb: Whip of Erebos The much-needed lifegain engine in the deck. Works wonders in long, drawn out matches. Great combo with Obzedat.
1 // 2Far // Away Powerful, versatile tempo card. Your only real answer to a resolved Blood Baron of Vizkopa besides Supreme Verdict. Yet another card at 3CMC when removal feels a bit too slow and the curve is crowded.
Sideboard:
***This section is currently under construction. Esper has probably the most diverse set of options in the format for sideboarding and much could be said on this topic. In the interim, I will post my thoughts on a few of the most popular dedicated sideboard cards.***
Dark Betrayal The most efficient removal against any decks playing black. A bit narrow, but great when it can be used.
1Negate I've run this as a 1- or 2-of and it has been very useful. Comes in handy against many decks that aren't just a creature/Planeswalker beatdown.
1:symb::symb: Underworld Connections The only card draw engine that is seeing any play currently. Powerful when you are playing the control role in your match. The life loss between this and Thoughtseize however can be problematic.
1:symw::symw: Fiendslayer Paladin Great defensive creature against agro decks, especially red or black variants. Only 3cmc creature that will trade with Ash Zealot or Precinct Captain due to First Strike.
1:symu::symb: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver Was not a consistent enough threat in my brief testing with the card. If anyone has better experiences with her in specific matchups I would love your feedback. Seems solid against Domri decks.
2:symu::symb: Soul Ransom Powerful effect that equates to being a pure Control Magic when Cartel Aristocrat is in play. Competes with Demon and Verdict however in the 4-drop slot.
2:symu::symb: Notion Thief Great surprise against Sphinx's Rev decks, but I personally prefer to play Sin Collector. Leaves my 4-drop slot open for Demon and Whip which can end games. A bit too narrow of a card for my liking, but definitely strong against U/W/x.
1 // 2Profit // Loss Great card against White weenie/mirror or mono red agro. The most effective spell for manipulating combat math.
Without question, this deck can be complex to play effectively. It takes practice and a good understanding of what your role is for any particular matchup. Playing your lands in the correct order and deciding at which point to shock yourself to advance your board will affect the outcome of many games.
My play style with the deck is winning games with Desecration Demon and Obzedat almost exclusively. The Humans and removal often act as a way to clog the board and extend into the mid-game. The only decks in the format with a more powerful late game are one's playing Sphinx's Revelation, Elspeth, Sun's Champion and/or AEtherling.
Agro Matchups
Game 1 is often about preserving your life total at any cost. Most games end with either your being run over turns 5-6, or stabilizing below 10 life. Post-sideboard, you can bring in more removal to help stem the early bleeding.
Game 1 is really all about getting Obzedat to stick around. Don't attack into Azorius Charm unless you absolutely know he doesn't have it. These matches can be quite difficult pre-board depending on how many real threats you draw. Post-sideboard, Thoughtseize, Sin Collector, Glare of Heresy, and Negate are all-stars. I've won the majority of my post-sideboard matches against U/W and U/W/R, but time can be a very limiting factor.
Please send me a PM if you find any incosistencies or have any questions about the content posted above. I will continue to monitor this thread and update the post as needed. In the future, I would like to get more details about sideboarding, common matchups, and hopefully discussion about some tournament deck lists!
-eldub
1/13/13 - Initial Post
1/14/13 - Update to eldub decklist for increased consistency and sideboard options against difficult matchups:
So, the reason I play this deck is because I believe it to have a good Mono B match-up and that's about all I see online. I love how easily the deck can also switch roles.
Some thoughts..
It's not all that uncommon to see lists running a pair of Precinct Captain online. Brad Nelson I believe complained about the lack of powerful 2-drops and I believe Precinct Captain is undoubtedly one of the best within these colors. A mana base consisting of 14-16 W sources can run a pair with ease as the failure rate (of drawing a Precinct but not double W) is below 10%.
Also, channelfireball recently put out an article which I believe was Nelson's new brew. It sports a full set of Cartel Aristocrat and Soul Ransom. I still have to test it but he says Ransom is good in our current meta and the interaction with Cartel Aristocrat is obvious.
Sweet, we got a primer! Any thoughts on Deputy of Acquittals? Lets you reuse skynight and acts as a surprise blocker.
The only place I can see Deputy really doing work is in conjunction with Sin Collector tbh. While the etb effect on Skyknight certainly has merit, I don't find the effect alone is worth 3 mana.
Nice job eldub.
So, the reason I play this deck is because I believe it to have a good Mono B match-up and that's about all I see online. I love how easily the deck can also switch roles.
Some thoughts..
It's not all that uncommon to see lists running a pair of Precinct Captain online. Brad Nelson I believe complained about the lack of powerful 2-drops and I believe Precinct Captain is undoubtedly one of the best within these colors. A mana base consisting of 14-16 W sources can run a pair with ease as the failure rate (of drawing a Precinct but not double W) is below 10%.
Thanks DTG99. Precinct Captain is next on my list to play some actual matches with when/if I get done with Thrill-Kill. He was great in my testing with W/b Humans list running Brave the Elements, certainly.
My deck runs 16 white, 16 black, and 12 blue sources including all 8 temples currently plus 2 Mutavault for a total of 26 lands. I'm sure getting to Precinct Captain mana would not be too difficult. Often though, on turn 3-4 I don't find myself attacking too often because I'm looking at a Sylvan Caryatid, Frostburn Weird, Boros Reckoner, or Nightveil Specter across the table.
Also, channelfireball recently put out an article which I believe was Nelson's new brew. It sports a full set of Cartel Aristocrat and Soul Ransom. I still have to test it but he says Ransom is good in our current meta and the interaction with Cartel Aristocrat is obvious.
EDIT: Just noticed Ransom in the SB section.
Soul Ransom is pretty solid, even if you don't have Cartel in play. Honestly, most of the time I want them to discard just for the card advantage. Although for me, Verdict, Demon, and Whip are more powerful spells for my style of play with the deck at 4cmc. There may be a bit more value from Soul Ransom alongside Hero of Iroas in Born of the Gods.
I'm stoked to see they are continuing to print more usable humans for us to play with in the next expansion. I love playing this deck, it's so much fun.
I'm having a real struggle between Liliana's Reaver and Desecration Demon.
While Desecration Demon is a better card in its own right, reaver synergizes with the deck better. It works better with whip, it works better with detain, and it ensures your opponent cant just attack into you without fear of return dmg since they can just sac a creature to stop demon.
However, everytime I see a lone blood baron enter the field I wish reaver was a desecration demon...
I just recently started playing the deck and is having a lot of fun. I was wondering what you think are the weaknesses of the deck? What matchups are the toughest matchups?
In addition, what is important in the mirror matchup?
I'm having a real struggle between Liliana's Reaver and Desecration Demon.
While Desecration Demon is a better card in its own right, reaver synergizes with the deck better. It works better with whip, it works better with detain, and it ensures your opponent cant just attack into you without fear of return dmg since they can just sac a creature to stop demon.
However, everytime I see a lone blood baron enter the field I wish reaver was a desecration demon...
Reaver definitely has some interesting synergies, but demon seems like better value. Maybe if they hadn't given reaver such crap stats (4/3 for something that need to connect? thanks...) and a better static ability (trample? although that might be too strong), he'd be playable. Reaver also gets hit by mortars. One could argue that he dodges selesnya charm, but GW aggro has blockers large enough to take him out anyways. I'd say stick with the demon for now until we find a way to make Reaver better. On another topic, has anyone tried brad nelson's soul ransom variant? It looks like fun but I'm not sure how the deck works well without whip; the lifegain is so essential for stabilizing/racing.
I just recently started playing the deck and is having a lot of fun. I was wondering what you think are the weaknesses of the deck? What matchups are the toughest matchups?
In addition, what is important in the mirror matchup?
Orzhov/Esper Control and G/R monsters can definitely be tough match ups. Control in particular with 4x Hero's Downfall can typically beat us with Blood Baron. G/R Monsters simply tends to be very threat dense. Whip of Erebos is very strong against both, as is Supreme Verdict.
You need timely Detention Spheres for troublesome Planeswalkers and potentially Doom Blade for Stormbreath Dragon or Polukranos. Lyev Skyknight will do a lot of Planeswalker killing against G/R and Desecration Demon is hard for them to deal with.
The mirror isn't one I've been able to test. The biggest threat is Blood Baron so having some in your 75 seems paramount. Last Breath is great removal for opposing Xathrid Necromancers. Fiendslayer Paladin or Precinct Captain are also very strong.
Edit: Lifebane Zombie is very strong against all of the decks I mentioned, I may try to squeeze two in to my sideboard somehow this week...
Orzhov/Esper Control and G/R monsters can definitely be tough match ups. Control in particular with 4x Hero's Downfall can typically beat us with Blood Baron. G/R Monsters simply tends to be very threat dense. Whip of Erebos is very strong against both, as is Supreme Verdict.
You need timely Detention Spheres for troublesome Planeswalkers and potentially Doom Blade for Stormbreath Dragon or Polukranos. Lyev Skyknight will do a lot of Planeswalker killing against G/R and Desecration Demon is hard for them to deal with.
The mirror isn't one I've been able to test. The biggest threat is Blood Baron so having some in your 75 seems paramount. Last Breath is great removal for opposing Xathrid Necromancers. Fiendslayer Paladin or Precinct Captain are also very strong.
Edit: Lifebane Zombie is very strong against all of the decks I mentioned, I may try to squeeze two in to my sideboard somehow this week...
Thanks, do you do most of your testing online? I find there are a lot of Esper Humans online. I have just recently picked it up online but I have had a lot of mirror matchups. I really like the Fiendslayer Paladin idea, but not the Precinct Captain, I am not so sure because getting WW on turn 2 is quite hard with the horrible mana we have.
Thanks, do you do most of your testing online? I find there are a lot of Esper Humans online. I have just recently picked it up online but I have had a lot of mirror matchups. I really like the Fiendslayer Paladin idea, but not the Precinct Captain, I am not so sure because getting WW on turn 2 is quite hard with the horrible mana we have.
Fiendslayer is brutal to play against, it's in my sideboard this week as a 2-of. It's also your best card against mono-red agro. I have updated my deck list in the primer to reflect some sideboard changes for difficult matchups, specifically G/R and Mono Black. We'll see how well Soul Ransom works this week. In the mirror it's probably also strong if you can snag a Demon.
Most of my testing is done locally with a play group. I have a competitive local event tomorrow evening so I should be able to post feedback.
After playing online and against it last FNM it's an amazingly powerfull deck. It's greatest weekness is mana... It asks an awful lot from its mana base.. I am going to try the soul ransom version with 3 aristocrats once I get the deck built... Also imposing Sovern might need to be replace if this untap mechanic becomes playable...
Either way I am 3 ghost dads and a few lands from playing the hell out of this deck.
I did best it at the final table to win FNM this week with mono blue.
Game 1 I curved perfectly into 2 masters on the play... Not many decks period can stop that.
Game 2 was esper humans curving with no bumps in mana... He dominated a decent monoU start.
Game 3 it was neck to neck but he stumbled with a blue temple coming into play tapped.... Had he had an untapped blue source the game would have been much closer...
All in all I see the decks worst matchup is its mana base... But when it works it works....
I don't recall exactly where I saw someone bring up that same question, but the response was that we want our 4 drops and higher to help us stabilize, and duskmantle doesn't really do that.
I could see Duskmantle Seer being effective only if it is the top of the cmc curve. In it's current form, this deck has far too many 4-5cmc cards that will deal you significant damage while also feeding your opponent an extra card. Duskmantle is a creature that is best played on a board state where you have the advantage and your opponent is under pressure. This is not how games unfold on turn 4-6 with this shell.
Thanks for the input on Duskmantle Seer. That makes sense. I think I've just been looking for a shell he would fit in and was hoping this might be it. But for the reasons you both laid out I don't think he fits here.
Solid showing last night in my 5 round event. Ended up 3-0-2 with the last round being an intentional draw into Top 8.
Round 1: U/W Control (1-1 Draw) - Standard U/W list with only 2 Elspeth in the main deck for a win condition. First game took quite a while as I was able to fight through the first one, but he eventually got the win. Second game I was able to apply enough early pressure with Sin Collector, Lifebane, & Thoughtseize to finish with Obzedat. We only had 8 minutes left in the round and were unable to finish.
Round 2: R/w Burn (2-1) - Basically Young Pyromancer, Chandra's Phoenix and lots of burn. He got me first game as I fell behind on board to 2 Pyromancers and ate 2 Boros Charms to end the game. Games two and three I kept his board clear and landed a Whip of Erebos which was basically unbeatable.
Round 3: U/W Control (2-0) - Game 1 he got stuck on blue mana and it wasn't much of a game. Game two I had a great draw which gave me a beautiful opening hand including Sin Collector, Thoughtseize, Glare, D-sphere. I was able to draw into 2 Obzedat's and put it away. Sometimes you just draw the nuts ;).
Round 4: Orzhov Control (2-0) - I was actually quite worried about this matchup as it is a good technical player and what I conceived to be a difficult matchup. Game 1 I Thoughtseize on turn 2 revealing Blood Baron, Devour Flesh, Pack Rat, Mutavault and lands. I had to pull Blood Baron as I had no answer and a D-Sphere for the rats. Interestingly, turn 4 when I attempted to D-Sphere one of his two rats, he killed it in response to make it fizzle. Luckily, I had a 2nd D-Sphere the following turn to lock down his Pack Rat army. Demon, Skyknight, and Whip finished the game.
Game 2 I once again Thoughtseize into a hand with Last Breath, Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall and an Underworld Connections. I pulled the Devour Flesh since I had my own Blood Baron in hand. I locked down his Connections via D-Sphere and was able to land a turn 6 Blood Baron (with Mutavault protection against Devour) which he was unable to answer.
Round 5: Mono Blue Devotion (ID) - Although we split into Top 8, we played 2 pre-SB and 4 post-SB games for practice. I lost both pre-SB games to consecutive Thassa-Master-Master draws and not enough removal. The Post-SB games I brought in all the answers I had, including the Soul Ransom's I was testing. I won 3 of the 4 matches with Demon taking over 2 of them. Soul Ransom was mediocre and I often wished it was either cheaper removal or a 4th Demon.
Tuning:Thrill-Kill Assassin, while not terrible, was underwhelming. The 2cmc Humans in the deck are it's weakest link. I'm going to try 2x Vizkopa Guildmage instead on Friday. Daring Skyjek is another option but it makes me nervous having so many /1 toughness creatures in the deck. It leads to blowouts.
Soul Ransom was not great and I often wanted either cheaper removal or a Desecration Demon. I'm adding the 4th Demon into my SB since he is the best card against a lot of decks. I'm also adding a singleton Profit // Loss back in as a great answer to the agro decks, while also effective against Mono Blue. My sideboard is still a work in progress but my changes are reflected in the primer.
Solid showing last night in my 5 round event. Ended up 3-0-2 with the last round being an intentional draw into Top 8.
Round 1: U/W Control (1-1 Draw) - Standard U/W list with only 2 Elspeth in the main deck for a win condition. First game took quite a while as I was able to fight through the first one, but he eventually got the win. Second game I was able to apply enough early pressure with Sin Collector, Lifebane, & Thoughtseize to finish with Obzedat. We only had 8 minutes left in the round and were unable to finish.
Round 2: R/w Burn (2-1) - Basically Young Pyromancer, Chandra's Phoenix and lots of burn. He got me first game as I fell behind on board to 2 Pyromancers and ate 2 Boros Charms to end the game. Games two and three I kept his board clear and landed a Whip of Erebos which was basically unbeatable.
Round 3: U/W Control (2-0) - Game 1 he got stuck on blue mana and it wasn't much of a game. Game two I had a great draw which gave me a beautiful opening hand including Sin Collector, Thoughtseize, Glare, D-sphere. I was able to draw into 2 Obzedat's and put it away. Sometimes you just draw the nuts ;).
Round 4: Orzhov Control (2-0) - I was actually quite worried about this matchup as it is a good technical player and what I conceived to be a difficult matchup. Game 1 I Thoughtseize on turn 2 revealing Blood Baron, Devour Flesh, Pack Rat, Mutavault and lands. I had to pull Blood Baron as I had no answer and a D-Sphere for the rats. Interestingly, turn 4 when I attempted to D-Sphere one of his two rats, he killed it in response to make it fizzle. Luckily, I had a 2nd D-Sphere the following turn to lock down his Pack Rat army. Demon, Skyknight, and Whip finished the game.
Game 2 I once again Thoughtseize into a hand with Last Breath, Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall and an Underworld Connections. I pulled the Devour Flesh since I had my own Blood Baron in hand. I locked down his Connections via D-Sphere and was able to land a turn 6 Blood Baron (with Mutavault protection against Devour) which he was unable to answer.
Round 5: Mono Blue Devotion (ID) - Although we split into Top 8, we played 2 pre-SB and 4 post-SB games for practice. I lost both pre-SB games to consecutive Thassa-Master-Master draws and not enough removal. The Post-SB games I brought in all the answers I had, including the Soul Ransom's I was testing. I won 3 of the 4 matches with Demon taking over 2 of them. Soul Ransom was mediocre and I often wished it was either cheaper removal or a 4th Demon.
Tuning:Thrill-Kill Assassin, while not terrible, was underwhelming. The 2cmc Humans in the deck are it's weakest link. I'm going to try 2x Vizkopa Guildmage instead on Friday. Daring Skyjek is another option but it makes me nervous having so many /1 toughness creatures in the deck. It leads to blowouts.
Soul Ransom was not great and I often wanted either cheaper removal or a Desecration Demon. I'm adding the 4th Demon into my SB since he is the best card against a lot of decks. I'm also adding a singleton Profit // Loss back in as a great answer to the agro decks, while also effective against Mono Blue. My sideboard is still a work in progress but my changes are reflected in the primer.
I have found game one against UW is a trap... Unless you draw nuts and can end it fast it's better just beat him post Sb... Last 4 times I played vs I would try for a game one quick win and scoop soon as I see the writing on the wall... Then proceeded to beat them 2-1... Post side we have all the advantage..
I have found game one against UW is a trap... Unless you draw nuts and can end it fast it's better just beat him post Sb... Last 4 times I played vs I would try for a game one quick win and scoop soon as I see the writing on the wall... Then proceeded to beat them 2-1... Post side we have all the advantage..
Probably wise, will try tonight when I inevitably get matched up against U/W.
I agree as well. Our G1 against UW/Esper is just miserable. Maybe 30-70 at best? Post board is pretty much the opposite, assuming we hit what we board in. But post board we just have so many threats that can win games alone, we can usually force them to run out of counters/removal. I think my record game 1 against UW is like 1-7, and I've ended up winning all but 2 of those matches. We can easily adjust our game plan around what they have, this deck is that powerful and flexible. I can't really give a good rule of thumb, but the key to the post board is just taking the removal that hits what is in your hand (a pretty good rule for thoughtseize in general).
Also, the mirror is a miserable game 1 to play. It usually ends with each side having a Whip, Obzedat, and Solider of the Pantheon and you just chump things and have life jump up and down 2-3 pts at a time.
I agree as well. Our G1 against UW/Esper is just miserable. Maybe 30-70 at best? Post board is pretty much the opposite, assuming we hit what we board in. But post board we just have so many threats that can win games alone, we can usually force them to run out of counters/removal. I think my record game 1 against UW is like 1-7, and I've ended up winning all but 2 of those matches. We can easily adjust our game plan around what they have, this deck is that powerful and flexible. I can't really give a good rule of thumb, but the key to the post board is just taking the removal that hits what is in your hand (a pretty good rule for thoughtseize in general).
Also, the mirror is a miserable game 1 to play. It usually ends with each side having a Whip, Obzedat, and Solider of the Pantheon and you just chump things and have life jump up and down 2-3 pts at a time.
What do you sideboard out against control and what do you sideboard in against control? I find that I have a hard time against control for some reason. I lost both matches to control last night.
What do you sideboard out against control and what do you sideboard in against control? I find that I have a hard time against control for some reason. I lost both matches to control last night.
My sb has 3 thoughtsieze, 3 sin collecters, 2 negates, and one notion thief... I really hate losing vs control lol
I take out 2verdict, 4imposing, 2 far away, 2 doom blade
Hi all, first post but I've been playing this deck for a little while. Wanted to know if anyone else has tested the following cards:
Rapid Hybridization: Seems like a pretty good card right now. Takes care of the most troublesome threats and isn't completely dead like a removal spell against control (get a 3/3 and a 2/2 instead of a Xathrid d-sphered). Has synergy with Far//Away too. I have one main and one in the side but haven't seen it much.
Frontline Medic: Basically extra Xathrids with better stats. You can supreme verdict second main phase for blowouts against other creature heavy decks. I guess the sac ability could cause a sphinx deck to have to remove the Medic. Still don't know how often the batallion will get to trigger unless you're using it with the whip. Maybe a sideboard card for removal light decks.
Ashiok: One in the sideboard has destroyed a G/W deck I frequently play against when I draw it. Not sure if it would be good in other match-ups, but aside from a spell it seems this deck could protect her for the turn or two she needs, especially post sideboard.
Please send me a PM if you find any incosistencies or have any questions about the content posted above. I will continue to monitor this thread and update the post as needed. In the future, I would like to get more details about sideboarding, common matchups, and hopefully discussion about some tournament deck lists!
-eldub
1/13/13 - Initial Post
1/14/13 - Update to eldub decklist for increased consistency and sideboard options against difficult matchups:
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
So, the reason I play this deck is because I believe it to have a good Mono B match-up and that's about all I see online. I love how easily the deck can also switch roles.
Some thoughts..
It's not all that uncommon to see lists running a pair of Precinct Captain online. Brad Nelson I believe complained about the lack of powerful 2-drops and I believe Precinct Captain is undoubtedly one of the best within these colors. A mana base consisting of 14-16 W sources can run a pair with ease as the failure rate (of drawing a Precinct but not double W) is below 10%.
Also, channelfireball recently put out an article which I believe was Nelson's new brew. It sports a full set of Cartel Aristocrat and Soul Ransom. I still have to test it but he says Ransom is good in our current meta and the interaction with Cartel Aristocrat is obvious.
EDIT: Just noticed Ransom in the SB section.
The only place I can see Deputy really doing work is in conjunction with Sin Collector tbh. While the etb effect on Skyknight certainly has merit, I don't find the effect alone is worth 3 mana.
Thanks DTG99. Precinct Captain is next on my list to play some actual matches with when/if I get done with Thrill-Kill. He was great in my testing with W/b Humans list running Brave the Elements, certainly.
My deck runs 16 white, 16 black, and 12 blue sources including all 8 temples currently plus 2 Mutavault for a total of 26 lands. I'm sure getting to Precinct Captain mana would not be too difficult. Often though, on turn 3-4 I don't find myself attacking too often because I'm looking at a Sylvan Caryatid, Frostburn Weird, Boros Reckoner, or Nightveil Specter across the table.
Soul Ransom is pretty solid, even if you don't have Cartel in play. Honestly, most of the time I want them to discard just for the card advantage. Although for me, Verdict, Demon, and Whip are more powerful spells for my style of play with the deck at 4cmc. There may be a bit more value from Soul Ransom alongside Hero of Iroas in Born of the Gods.
I'm stoked to see they are continuing to print more usable humans for us to play with in the next expansion. I love playing this deck, it's so much fun.
While Desecration Demon is a better card in its own right, reaver synergizes with the deck better. It works better with whip, it works better with detain, and it ensures your opponent cant just attack into you without fear of return dmg since they can just sac a creature to stop demon.
However, everytime I see a lone blood baron enter the field I wish reaver was a desecration demon...
In addition, what is important in the mirror matchup?
Reaver definitely has some interesting synergies, but demon seems like better value. Maybe if they hadn't given reaver such crap stats (4/3 for something that need to connect? thanks...) and a better static ability (trample? although that might be too strong), he'd be playable. Reaver also gets hit by mortars. One could argue that he dodges selesnya charm, but GW aggro has blockers large enough to take him out anyways. I'd say stick with the demon for now until we find a way to make Reaver better. On another topic, has anyone tried brad nelson's soul ransom variant? It looks like fun but I'm not sure how the deck works well without whip; the lifegain is so essential for stabilizing/racing.
Orzhov/Esper Control and G/R monsters can definitely be tough match ups. Control in particular with 4x Hero's Downfall can typically beat us with Blood Baron. G/R Monsters simply tends to be very threat dense. Whip of Erebos is very strong against both, as is Supreme Verdict.
You need timely Detention Spheres for troublesome Planeswalkers and potentially Doom Blade for Stormbreath Dragon or Polukranos. Lyev Skyknight will do a lot of Planeswalker killing against G/R and Desecration Demon is hard for them to deal with.
The mirror isn't one I've been able to test. The biggest threat is Blood Baron so having some in your 75 seems paramount. Last Breath is great removal for opposing Xathrid Necromancers. Fiendslayer Paladin or Precinct Captain are also very strong.
Edit: Lifebane Zombie is very strong against all of the decks I mentioned, I may try to squeeze two in to my sideboard somehow this week...
Thanks, do you do most of your testing online? I find there are a lot of Esper Humans online. I have just recently picked it up online but I have had a lot of mirror matchups. I really like the Fiendslayer Paladin idea, but not the Precinct Captain, I am not so sure because getting WW on turn 2 is quite hard with the horrible mana we have.
Fiendslayer is brutal to play against, it's in my sideboard this week as a 2-of. It's also your best card against mono-red agro. I have updated my deck list in the primer to reflect some sideboard changes for difficult matchups, specifically G/R and Mono Black. We'll see how well Soul Ransom works this week. In the mirror it's probably also strong if you can snag a Demon.
Most of my testing is done locally with a play group. I have a competitive local event tomorrow evening so I should be able to post feedback.
Either way I am 3 ghost dads and a few lands from playing the hell out of this deck.
I did best it at the final table to win FNM this week with mono blue.
Game 1 I curved perfectly into 2 masters on the play... Not many decks period can stop that.
Game 2 was esper humans curving with no bumps in mana... He dominated a decent monoU start.
Game 3 it was neck to neck but he stumbled with a blue temple coming into play tapped.... Had he had an untapped blue source the game would have been much closer...
All in all I see the decks worst matchup is its mana base... But when it works it works....
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
Round 1: U/W Control (1-1 Draw) - Standard U/W list with only 2 Elspeth in the main deck for a win condition. First game took quite a while as I was able to fight through the first one, but he eventually got the win. Second game I was able to apply enough early pressure with Sin Collector, Lifebane, & Thoughtseize to finish with Obzedat. We only had 8 minutes left in the round and were unable to finish.
Round 2: R/w Burn (2-1) - Basically Young Pyromancer, Chandra's Phoenix and lots of burn. He got me first game as I fell behind on board to 2 Pyromancers and ate 2 Boros Charms to end the game. Games two and three I kept his board clear and landed a Whip of Erebos which was basically unbeatable.
Round 3: U/W Control (2-0) - Game 1 he got stuck on blue mana and it wasn't much of a game. Game two I had a great draw which gave me a beautiful opening hand including Sin Collector, Thoughtseize, Glare, D-sphere. I was able to draw into 2 Obzedat's and put it away. Sometimes you just draw the nuts ;).
Round 4: Orzhov Control (2-0) - I was actually quite worried about this matchup as it is a good technical player and what I conceived to be a difficult matchup. Game 1 I Thoughtseize on turn 2 revealing Blood Baron, Devour Flesh, Pack Rat, Mutavault and lands. I had to pull Blood Baron as I had no answer and a D-Sphere for the rats. Interestingly, turn 4 when I attempted to D-Sphere one of his two rats, he killed it in response to make it fizzle. Luckily, I had a 2nd D-Sphere the following turn to lock down his Pack Rat army. Demon, Skyknight, and Whip finished the game.
Game 2 I once again Thoughtseize into a hand with Last Breath, Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall and an Underworld Connections. I pulled the Devour Flesh since I had my own Blood Baron in hand. I locked down his Connections via D-Sphere and was able to land a turn 6 Blood Baron (with Mutavault protection against Devour) which he was unable to answer.
Round 5: Mono Blue Devotion (ID) - Although we split into Top 8, we played 2 pre-SB and 4 post-SB games for practice. I lost both pre-SB games to consecutive Thassa-Master-Master draws and not enough removal. The Post-SB games I brought in all the answers I had, including the Soul Ransom's I was testing. I won 3 of the 4 matches with Demon taking over 2 of them. Soul Ransom was mediocre and I often wished it was either cheaper removal or a 4th Demon.
Tuning:Thrill-Kill Assassin, while not terrible, was underwhelming. The 2cmc Humans in the deck are it's weakest link. I'm going to try 2x Vizkopa Guildmage instead on Friday. Daring Skyjek is another option but it makes me nervous having so many /1 toughness creatures in the deck. It leads to blowouts.
Soul Ransom was not great and I often wanted either cheaper removal or a Desecration Demon. I'm adding the 4th Demon into my SB since he is the best card against a lot of decks. I'm also adding a singleton Profit // Loss back in as a great answer to the agro decks, while also effective against Mono Blue. My sideboard is still a work in progress but my changes are reflected in the primer.
I have found game one against UW is a trap... Unless you draw nuts and can end it fast it's better just beat him post Sb... Last 4 times I played vs I would try for a game one quick win and scoop soon as I see the writing on the wall... Then proceeded to beat them 2-1... Post side we have all the advantage..
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
Probably wise, will try tonight when I inevitably get matched up against U/W.
Also, the mirror is a miserable game 1 to play. It usually ends with each side having a Whip, Obzedat, and Solider of the Pantheon and you just chump things and have life jump up and down 2-3 pts at a time.
What do you sideboard out against control and what do you sideboard in against control? I find that I have a hard time against control for some reason. I lost both matches to control last night.
My sb has 3 thoughtsieze, 3 sin collecters, 2 negates, and one notion thief... I really hate losing vs control lol
I take out 2verdict, 4imposing, 2 far away, 2 doom blade
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
Rapid Hybridization: Seems like a pretty good card right now. Takes care of the most troublesome threats and isn't completely dead like a removal spell against control (get a 3/3 and a 2/2 instead of a Xathrid d-sphered). Has synergy with Far//Away too. I have one main and one in the side but haven't seen it much.
Frontline Medic: Basically extra Xathrids with better stats. You can supreme verdict second main phase for blowouts against other creature heavy decks. I guess the sac ability could cause a sphinx deck to have to remove the Medic. Still don't know how often the batallion will get to trigger unless you're using it with the whip. Maybe a sideboard card for removal light decks.
Ashiok: One in the sideboard has destroyed a G/W deck I frequently play against when I draw it. Not sure if it would be good in other match-ups, but aside from a spell it seems this deck could protect her for the turn or two she needs, especially post sideboard.