just needs more testing... definitely an interesting deck.. by the way golgari's decoy was a good suggestion. Just imagine whipping him back and swinging with a monstrous nemesis for an alpha strike.
Watched Conley's latest stream. Yeah, didn't go too well, but Troll seemed promising. From a personal experience, control (Esper more so than UWR) has been a nightmare matchup.
It didn't help that he kept shipping perfectly keepable hands. Acceleration doesn't make or break the deck. He should be keeping any hands with salvage and the lands to cast them. The deck also flooded. I wouldn't gauge its success off of those matches. Poor playing on conleys part paired with some poor luck.
I found Drown in Filth MD unnecessary in my meta, but definitely want it SB. There aren't many creatures in standard that are bigger than what we can throw out there on turn 3-4-5. I found the addition of the 3rd Demon MD along with 2 Lotleth gives this deck some solid evasive creatures for Nighthowler's bestow, and the regen on Troll is so good in the format right now. Rot Farm is another yard enabler who obviously plays well with Troll, and mid-late game with Jared is a recurring 4 to the face along with more yard fuel.
I have 1 less mana source than Conley, but less than 20 lands scares me so I am running a 20/12 land/mana dork split.
question, is deathrite a must in the deck? I'm asking cause I dont have it and I dont feel like spending for a playset if it's not a must for the deck. Any opinions on cutting them for something else?
question, is deathrite a must in the deck? I'm asking cause I dont have it and I dont feel like spending for a playset if it's not a must for the deck. Any opinions on cutting them for something else?
I'd say absolutely. They break stalled board states and are mana accel post Commune, Salvage, etc. I also run 1 Deadbridge MD and 1 SB, and the ability to both accel into it and remove unwanted cards during the upkeep trigger to increase your likelihood of getting the card you want are unable to replicate.
I found Drown in Filth MD unnecessary in my meta, but definitely want it SB. There aren't many creatures in standard that are bigger than what we can throw out there on turn 3-4-5. I found the addition of the 3rd Demon MD along with 2 Lotleth gives this deck some solid evasive creatures for Nighthowler's bestow, and the regen on Troll is so good in the format right now. Rot Farm is another yard enabler who obviously plays well with Troll, and mid-late game with Jared is a recurring 4 to the face along with more yard fuel.
I have 1 less mana source than Conley, but less than 20 lands scares me so I am running a 20/12 land/mana dork split.
I know you said you cut DiF for meta reasons, but if you were to keep them in, what would you remove?
I love DBC in the list. Bring the second in against control?
How is Nylea doing for you? Seems like pretty solid tech, have you tried her MB? I am also really interested in trying her bow, thoughts?
I have some thoughts abouth all the list until mine:
- Lack of removal. Things like Boros Reckoner will make us cry
- Desecration Demon is a high cost for the few lands we have, but it's a great removal, hitting or sacrificing, and helps to grow our Nighthowler.
- Lotleth troll + Nighthowler + Whip = win
- Mistcutter Hydra will not be very strong, but Nighthowler is the key.
I'll try this weekend, I want to see this working.
Shadowborn is a must have at least as a 2-of. Desecration Demon falls far short for this deck. Make the switch you won't regret it. And not running Deathrite main seems dirty. lol
bow seems pretty good. It'll prevent you from killing yourself, allow you to pump up mana dorks, and shoot down flyers. worst case scenario its 3 life a turn
Just tested the deck a bit myself, using a pretty standard list minus DRS (didn't have them on me). I liked Rot Farm Skeleton as an answer to Desecration Demon, it was pretty hilarious.
I keep coming back to Pharika's Mender, I keep thinking it might be worth a slot.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
I'm not a big player of the color green, but after seeing this deck it looks extremely fun.
I have been trying to figure out a fun sac style deck and like how the interaction between Jarad and DRS works. I've been trying to think of a sac deck using Tymaret, the Murder King but have had no luck thus far. I really would like to use that guy.
Testing season 1: I prefer 4 DRS over the Elvish Mystic, maybe they are the slots I need to have them in MB. Also, I'm worry about the lack of removal, if I face a creature bigger than mine I'll have a problem.
Need more testing, but the deck looks awesome.
I think you need 11-14 mana dorks. I run 4 Mystic, 3 Deathrite, 4 Caryatid. And with 2-3 Shadowborn + Whip that gives you a lot of removal on top of Drown in Filth.
This deck idea seems kind of promising, however what is everyone's thoughts on both Dreg Mangler and Varolz, the Scar-Striped? Both seem like they might make good usage of the deck.
For those of you that are new to the deck or only know it through this thread, check out the work that Conley Woods, the creator of the deck has done. Watching the deck videos will answer a lot of questions about the card choices and numbers. http://www.channelfireball.com/author/conley-woods/
After playing around a little bit with this deck it's rather fun. I put 4 miscutters in side vs control and like that interaction. A lot of times I can use them for quick damage when needed.
A card I am liking as a one of is rot farm skeleton. If I get it in hand I just dump it to lotleth troll and then cast from graveyard. Most of the time it just gets tossed into graveyard for long game shenanigans. And yes vs dressy demon it's hilarious....
So I played this at GP Dallas this past weekend. Didn't do too well- 2-3 drop- but that was more because I hadn't really practiced with the deck as much as I should have.
Rarely felt like I was completely out of a game except when playing mono blue. They always had tidebinder mage on my elvish mystic / DRS to stunt my mana development and then I got buried by their card draw off bident.
2 matchups were embarassingly easy: monoR aggro and GR monstrous
1 matchup I lost due to poor mulligans: Wr humans
Esper control seemed winnable, but my opponent happened to find all 4 of his detention spheres game 1 and then enough answers to squeak by game 2 (I was a turn too late on the double fling with Jarad for the win)
I think I'll be going up to 20 lands and some monoU hate in the board. I'm still not sure about Korozda Guildmage, but the intimidate would've come in handy several times. Slum Reaper was for the hexproof matchup. Skylasher seems like it would be reasonable in the board and I know Conley put up a hypothetical sideboard containing 4 of 'em.
After playtesting I have found I love having 1 Rot Farm Skeleton mainbored, he is great with things like dressy daemon and such.. If I ever get him in hand I toss him with troll.
I didn't like the 2drop mana dorks too much, found most of the time I would just rather have mana, so I went to 4 drs, 4 elves, and 2 cadrids with 21 lands and am much happier. After testing this I found drown in filth much much more usefull.. I was knocking out thassas and everything. I almost wanna find room for the 4 drown in flitch, gonna try 3 commune with the gods and 4 drowns but I fear that might be the wrong path...
Another fee more games with mainbored and I will post it up.
My meta top decks are MBD, Wr aggro, RDW/RW-burn
So far MBD has been an easy matchup so nothing there, i litterally don't bother siding it seems.
MBD isn't played much in our groups cause it got hated out but so far I was able to win game 2/3 he one matchup with a night howler riding a mistcutter both games lol...
Rdw creatures has been ok, nyles's disciple is amazing here and vs RW burn....
Wr wheeny has been an ok match up, golgary charms pretty much take over if you have them att he right time. But I have own without them...
But the problem is most matchups where I want non creature sidebored cards I don't like taking creatures out for them, I feel it disrupts e game a lot.... I do need another lifebane however cause everyonce and a while I need to deal with scoozes. That's why abrupt decays as well.
Not sure about thoughtseaze. I know I do not like sin collectors because the mana base is allready up in the air. And esper control is pretty much dead in my area cause of all the rdw and burn running around.... I do see UW control for time to time.
So I played this at GP Dallas this past weekend. Didn't do too well- 2-3 drop- but that was more because I hadn't really practiced with the deck as much as I should have.
Rarely felt like I was completely out of a game except when playing mono blue. They always had tidebinder mage on my elvish mystic / DRS to stunt my mana development and then I got buried by their card draw off bident.
2 matchups were embarassingly easy: monoR aggro and GR monstrous
1 matchup I lost due to poor mulligans: Wr humans
Esper control seemed winnable, but my opponent happened to find all 4 of his detention spheres game 1 and then enough answers to squeak by game 2 (I was a turn too late on the double fling with Jarad for the win)
I think I'll be going up to 20 lands and some monoU hate in the board. I'm still not sure about Korozda Guildmage, but the intimidate would've come in handy several times. Slum Reaper was for the hexproof matchup. Skylasher seems like it would be reasonable in the board and I know Conley put up a hypothetical sideboard containing 4 of 'em.
I would love to hear more about how certain cards are performing, if you have time. Thanks!
Would you consider adding two moreLotleth Troll, why or why not?
What do you think of Deadbridge Chant? In my light testing, it has been amazing, I have went to two in the SB.
Have not been impressed. I landed it several times against slower esper / monoB / etc decks but have not been able to sculpt my graveyard to make good use of it. The most use I'd gotten out of it was making my nighthowlers / jarad massive and a couple extra lands.
Has anyone considered Pack Rat?
-You're filling your graveyard with creatures for Nemesis/Jarad/Howler/Whip.
-He's a cheap target for Bestow.
-He's Pack Rat. IE, an angry, persistent threat that demands an answer on turn 2.
In Conley's most recent brew, he ups the creature count with Lotleth, a creature he likes for its resilience, its discarding of creatures, and its job as an early Nighthowler target. Wouldn't Pack Rat serve a similar purpose while still sort of maintaining the self-mill strategy? The obvious difference is Pack Rat demands 3 mana on turn 3, 3 mana on turn 4, etc., but isn't it accomplishing the same thing as say, Commune/Grisly/Drown in that its filling the Graveyard for Nemesis but with the additional benefit of being a threat?
Another, unrelated thought:
One thing I don't really like about the deck is the unreliability of Drown in Filth as a removal spell. With a mere 19 lands and DRS eating whichever ones you happen to get into the GY, most of the time Drown in Filth is useless in the early game. Is the mill of it THAT important that we'd choose it over say a third Shadowborn and/or some Putrefies?
Has anyone considered Pack Rat?
-You're filling your graveyard with creatures for Nemesis/Jarad/Howler/Whip.
-He's a cheap target for Bestow.
-He's Pack Rat. IE, an angry, persistent threat that demands an answer on turn 2.
In Conley's most recent brew, he ups the creature count with Lotleth, a creature he likes for its resilience, its discarding of creatures, and its job as an early Nighthowler target. Wouldn't Pack Rat serve a similar purpose while still sort of maintaining the self-mill strategy? The obvious difference is Pack Rat demands 3 mana on turn 3, 3 mana on turn 4, etc., but isn't it accomplishing the same thing as say, Commune/Grisly/Drown in that its filling the Graveyard for Nemesis but with the additional benefit of being a threat?
Another, unrelated thought:
One thing I don't really like about the deck is the unreliability of Drown in Filth as a removal spell. With a mere 19 lands and DRS eating whichever ones you happen to get into the GY, most of the time Drown in Filth is useless in the early game. Is the mill of it THAT important that we'd choose it over say a third Shadowborn and/or some Putrefies?
The benefits of Troll over Rat for this deck are numerous...trample, regen, and a free pitch of creature spells > no trample, no regen, and a 2B activated cost.
I want to build this deck so badly, but do not own DRS
I feel that shaman is what kinda makes the deck.
In the meantime, I'm trying to trade to get some of these cards for the deck and watching the forum closely. So, please keep posting ideas, results, ect. for this deck that way I can construct it. Great job so far.
I want to build this deck so badly, but do not own DRS
I feel that shaman is what kinda makes the deck.
In the meantime, I'm trying to trade to get some of these cards for the deck and watching the forum closely. So, please keep posting ideas, results, ect. for this deck that way I can construct it. Great job so far.
I've tried building the deck without the DRS too because I dont have them and its safe to say the deck loses a lot of early steam without those shamans.
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He is the only semi-true 'Dredge' card in Standard.
It didn't help that he kept shipping perfectly keepable hands. Acceleration doesn't make or break the deck. He should be keeping any hands with salvage and the lands to cast them. The deck also flooded. I wouldn't gauge its success off of those matches. Poor playing on conleys part paired with some poor luck.
4 elvish mystic
2 jarad, golgari lich lord
2 lotleth troll
4 nemesis of mortals
4 nighthowler
2 rot farm skeleton
3 shadowborn demon
4 sylvan caryatid
1 deadbridge chant
4 grisly salvage
2 whip of erebos
7 forest
2 golgari guildgate
4 overgrown tomb
7 swamp
1 deadbridge chant
3 devour flesh
4 drown in filth
3 golgari charm
1 nylea, god of the hunt
3 thoughtseize
I found Drown in Filth MD unnecessary in my meta, but definitely want it SB. There aren't many creatures in standard that are bigger than what we can throw out there on turn 3-4-5. I found the addition of the 3rd Demon MD along with 2 Lotleth gives this deck some solid evasive creatures for Nighthowler's bestow, and the regen on Troll is so good in the format right now. Rot Farm is another yard enabler who obviously plays well with Troll, and mid-late game with Jared is a recurring 4 to the face along with more yard fuel.
I have 1 less mana source than Conley, but less than 20 lands scares me so I am running a 20/12 land/mana dork split.
I'd say absolutely. They break stalled board states and are mana accel post Commune, Salvage, etc. I also run 1 Deadbridge MD and 1 SB, and the ability to both accel into it and remove unwanted cards during the upkeep trigger to increase your likelihood of getting the card you want are unable to replicate.
I know you said you cut DiF for meta reasons, but if you were to keep them in, what would you remove?
I love DBC in the list. Bring the second in against control?
How is Nylea doing for you? Seems like pretty solid tech, have you tried her MB? I am also really interested in trying her bow, thoughts?
Shadowborn is a must have at least as a 2-of. Desecration Demon falls far short for this deck. Make the switch you won't regret it. And not running Deathrite main seems dirty. lol
4 elvish mystic
2 jarad, golgari lich lord
2 lotleth troll
4 nemesis of mortals
4 nighthowler
2 rot farm skeleton
3 shadowborn demon
4 sylvan caryatid
4 commune with the gods
4 drown in filth
2 grisly salvage
7 forest
2 golgari guildgate
4 overgrown tomb
7 swamp
1 deadbridge chant
1 erebos, god of the dead
3 golgari charm
2 grisly salvage
1 jarad, golgari lich lord
1 nylea, god of the hunt
1 shadowborn demon
2 slum reaper
3 thoughtseize
13 card swap against control:
-2 Lotleth
-2 Skeleton
-3 Demon
-2 Whip
-4 Drown
+1 Deadbridge
+1 Erebos
+3 Charm
+2 Salvage
+1 Jarad
+2 Reaper
+3 Thoughtseize
I keep coming back to Pharika's Mender, I keep thinking it might be worth a slot.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
I have been trying to figure out a fun sac style deck and like how the interaction between Jarad and DRS works. I've been trying to think of a sac deck using Tymaret, the Murder King but have had no luck thus far. I really would like to use that guy.
Deck looks fun. I'll have to check into it.
I think you need 11-14 mana dorks. I run 4 Mystic, 3 Deathrite, 4 Caryatid. And with 2-3 Shadowborn + Whip that gives you a lot of removal on top of Drown in Filth.
Edit: Also why no Abrupt Decay?
A card I am liking as a one of is rot farm skeleton. If I get it in hand I just dump it to lotleth troll and then cast from graveyard. Most of the time it just gets tossed into graveyard for long game shenanigans. And yes vs dressy demon it's hilarious....
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
2 Lotleth Troll
4 Nemesis Of Mortals
4 Nighthowler
1 Korozda Guildmage
3 Shadowborn Demon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Manaweft Sliver
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Drown in Filth
1 Whip of Erebos
5 Forest
3 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
6 Swamp
1 Deadbridge Chant
1 Shadowborn Demon
1 Drown in Filth
3 Golgari Charm
1 Slum Reaper
3 Sin Collector
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Gift of Orzhova
Rarely felt like I was completely out of a game except when playing mono blue. They always had tidebinder mage on my elvish mystic / DRS to stunt my mana development and then I got buried by their card draw off bident.
2 matchups were embarassingly easy: monoR aggro and GR monstrous
1 matchup I lost due to poor mulligans: Wr humans
Esper control seemed winnable, but my opponent happened to find all 4 of his detention spheres game 1 and then enough answers to squeak by game 2 (I was a turn too late on the double fling with Jarad for the win)
I think I'll be going up to 20 lands and some monoU hate in the board. I'm still not sure about Korozda Guildmage, but the intimidate would've come in handy several times. Slum Reaper was for the hexproof matchup. Skylasher seems like it would be reasonable in the board and I know Conley put up a hypothetical sideboard containing 4 of 'em.
I didn't like the 2drop mana dorks too much, found most of the time I would just rather have mana, so I went to 4 drs, 4 elves, and 2 cadrids with 21 lands and am much happier. After testing this I found drown in filth much much more usefull.. I was knocking out thassas and everything. I almost wanna find room for the 4 drown in flitch, gonna try 3 commune with the gods and 4 drowns but I fear that might be the wrong path...
Another fee more games with mainbored and I will post it up.
Side however is crazy.
2 mistcutter hydra
3 golgary charm
2 abrupt decay
1 shadowborn demon
2 lifebane zombie
1 gift of orzova
3 Nyles's disciple
My meta top decks are MBD, Wr aggro, RDW/RW-burn
So far MBD has been an easy matchup so nothing there, i litterally don't bother siding it seems.
MBD isn't played much in our groups cause it got hated out but so far I was able to win game 2/3 he one matchup with a night howler riding a mistcutter both games lol...
Rdw creatures has been ok,
nyles's discipleis amazing here and vs RW burn....Wr wheeny has been an ok match up, golgary charms pretty much take over if you have them att he right time. But I have own without them...
But the problem is most matchups where I want non creature sidebored cards I don't like taking creatures out for them, I feel it disrupts e game a lot.... I do need another lifebane however cause everyonce and a while I need to deal with scoozes. That's why abrupt decays as well.
Not sure about thoughtseaze. I know I do not like sin collectors because the mana base is allready up in the air. And esper control is pretty much dead in my area cause of all the rdw and burn running around.... I do see UW control for time to time.
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
I would love to hear more about how certain cards are performing, if you have time. Thanks!
Would you consider adding two moreLotleth Troll, why or why not?
Is the third MB Shadowborn Demon increasing consistency?
Do you feel like you need to keep Manaweft Sliver in as a 13th mana accelerator?
Some decks are dropping Whip of Erebos completely, how has the singleton worked for you? How often is it stuck in your hand?
What do you think of Deadbridge Chant? In my light testing, it has been amazing, I have went to two in the SB.
Slum Reaper seems like awesome tech against Blood Baron of Vizkopa and devotion decks. How has he been working for you?
Any reason you like Gift of Orzhova over Nylea's Disciple?
No, I don't think I would. I don't see what adding more trolls would do to improve the matchups that are difficult for the deck.
If you want to do a 2/2 split, I'm sure it's fine. Having 4 in the 75 is necessary though.
I might replace it with the 20th land.
I think those decks are gearing up to face mono blue. In almost any other matchup, whip is incredible and has to stay somewhere in the 75.
Have not been impressed. I landed it several times against slower esper / monoB / etc decks but have not been able to sculpt my graveyard to make good use of it. The most use I'd gotten out of it was making my nighthowlers / jarad massive and a couple extra lands.
Never got to play it. However, I did hit blood baron a few times with lifebane zombie. They probably play well together.
I just feel it allows you to put more pressure onto an opponent. I would consider hopeful eidolon too.
-You're filling your graveyard with creatures for Nemesis/Jarad/Howler/Whip.
-He's a cheap target for Bestow.
-He's Pack Rat. IE, an angry, persistent threat that demands an answer on turn 2.
In Conley's most recent brew, he ups the creature count with Lotleth, a creature he likes for its resilience, its discarding of creatures, and its job as an early Nighthowler target. Wouldn't Pack Rat serve a similar purpose while still sort of maintaining the self-mill strategy? The obvious difference is Pack Rat demands 3 mana on turn 3, 3 mana on turn 4, etc., but isn't it accomplishing the same thing as say, Commune/Grisly/Drown in that its filling the Graveyard for Nemesis but with the additional benefit of being a threat?
Another, unrelated thought:
One thing I don't really like about the deck is the unreliability of Drown in Filth as a removal spell. With a mere 19 lands and DRS eating whichever ones you happen to get into the GY, most of the time Drown in Filth is useless in the early game. Is the mill of it THAT important that we'd choose it over say a third Shadowborn and/or some Putrefies?
The benefits of Troll over Rat for this deck are numerous...trample, regen, and a free pitch of creature spells > no trample, no regen, and a 2B activated cost.
My current list:
4 elvish mystic
2 jarad, golgari lich lord
2 lotleth troll
4 nemesis of mortals
4 nighthowler
2 rot farm skeleton
3 shadowborn demon
4 sylvan caryatid
3 drown in filth
4 grisly salvage
1 whip of erebos
7 forest
3 golgari guildgate
4 overgrown tomb
6 swamp
1 deadbridge chant
3 disciple of phenax
1 drown in filth
3 golgari charm
1 jarad, golgari lich lord
1 nylea, god of the hunt
2 nylea's disciple
2 slum reaper
1 whip of erebos
I feel that shaman is what kinda makes the deck.
In the meantime, I'm trying to trade to get some of these cards for the deck and watching the forum closely. So, please keep posting ideas, results, ect. for this deck that way I can construct it. Great job so far.
I've tried building the deck without the DRS too because I dont have them and its safe to say the deck loses a lot of early steam without those shamans.