LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Yup, there is no doubt that we can put ~14-15 sources of 1 or 2 CMC removal in our deck to deal with quick agro. No one is arguing that. We've never really had issues with agro in this shell.
The real question I'm asking is if we have the ability to run less purely anti-creature removal cards in our deck, and use sweepers more, to free up space for other cards? Can we handle blitz agro decks, only using 10-11 removal spells, assuming we use Anger+Mortars?
Just trying to think outside the box a bit since this is all theoretical at this point.
Ah, my bad, I thought you were arguing that our removal wasn't good enough to handle BTE and we needed a sweeper. I don't want to take the chance of the opponent building against me plus there are a few sweeper protections that aggro can use to blank the sweep, leaving me hoping to draw into my fewer removal spells.
Good luck surviving an aggro onslaught with changes like that.
As for Elspeth over Aurelia, Aurelia converts resources, where Elspeth does not. Aurelia can just win a game out of nowhere, especially with the hound. Seems strange you would advocate the hound and then suggest swapping Aurelia out for Elspeth...
My lists with Elspeth and Chandra are just doing terrible so far in testing.
That argument makes no sense... against an aggro deck that is probably playing red Blood Baron will do absolutely nothing but get Mortared. Considering you have such few creatures for them to actually use it on.
I dont see how Aurelia converts resources. She is just not as good as Elspeth. If you are behind Aurelia will not help you except to possibly dome then for 6, as where elspeth put out three bodies, and will direct some damage to her instead of you. She also has a relevant minus ability.
That argument makes no sense... against an aggro deck that is probably playing red Blood Baron will do absolutely nothing but get Mortared. Considering you have such few creatures for them to actually use it on.
I dont see how Aurelia converts resources. She is just not as good as Elspeth. If you are behind Aurelia will not help you except to possibly dome then for 6, as where elspeth put out three bodies, and will direct some damage to her instead of you. She also has a relevant minus ability.
If you're just going to argue with every suggestion someone makes to this deck why even run the Primer? I saw this happen a lot in the last on you had as well. You always think you're right about everything and it doesn't make for a healthy conversation obviously. As for you "191 pages of history" that mean nothing. That archetype didn't post any real number to talk about. No GPs, no Starcity Opens, nothing. I don't see why you have to talk to me like I am stupid or belittle me. Its just rude.
I am not talking to you like you are stupid, I am pointing you to a location where information lies without caring enough to go dig it up or hash up a previous discussion on a card that was discussed not long ago at all.
The information is there. If you want a clear reason as to why and how the card functions, it is there.
Baron dying to Mortars is a completely shoddy argument to make, considering no red aggro decks in current iterations are really even running it main and really have no reason to run it over other options. Not running a remarkably powerful card because of Mizzium Mortars is weak.
First off all, I love the deck. It is definitely a control style midrange and with the amount of cheap removal spells, discard and scrying I can keep my opponent off cards until I draw my finishers.
The only thing that I found somewhat underwhelming were the sin collectors main. I understand why most people here seem to them, but for me I feel like they should be more sideboard material. I'd love to run something more akin to Vampire Nighthawk in that slot; I'm actually considering Desecration Demon as I think with the 2 keyrunes the mana won't be too much of an issue. I thought the keyrunes played well, they helped me ramp and fix my man while also becoming a threat on a empty board. I do want to try out Haunted Plate Mail at some point as that card seems interesting.
I'm also thinking of dropping the 2 Duress and replacing them with another Thoughtseize and something else. One card that gave me trouble was Aethering and I really want to fit in something like Pithing Needle to deal with that.
EDIT: Dropped the 2 Duress and the 1 Sin Collector in the board for 2 Pithing Needle and a third Thoughtseize
I also really liked the 3 Tithe Drinkers. They are great to come in against mono red or white weenie to trade with their creatures while gaining some life but they also can come in against slower decks and get some damage in.
Anyways, I will continue to test this deck and probably end up buying the rest of the cards for it, as I love playing it and I feel that it will end up becoming one of the most powerful decks in the format.
I think this deck needs Underworld Cerberus for sure. Just wondering why no one has mentioned it yet. Seems very powerful and returning past threats that was dealt with.
I also think Elspeth should get a mention here too.
Underworld Cerberus is pretty amazing vs control decks IMO, and vs the lighter creature midrange decks, but seems lackluster in stabilizing vs hyper aggro (RDW). Lifelink asap seems to trump that deck pretty well, and that's why Bloodbaron is 4 of, as it also smashes a good amount of the field. The new rock list popping up can't touch it. The naya mid list out can't touch it, except for kalonians, and stormbreath. There's just more evasion and utility gained by Baron to cut it for Cereberus. I do love Cerberus, and have made room for one. Since Obzedat is kind of harsh on the mana base, I cut both and made room for creatures like Stormbreath, and Cerberus.
Now, I have been playing Mythic (I like the new name lol, control the board, then proceed to play mythics :D) for a few months now and feel confident going forward with the following list:
Let me know what you guys think, and if you have any questions for some of the things I've included or left out. I want to include Slaughter Games in the side, but only when the meta stabilizes. In it's place, I included Elspeth, and an additional 1 x Underworld Connections. Like Kamahl posted in the 1st post, our lists are made to trump aggro and midrange, but can side in an anti-control package, which is kind of a nightmare for them. Whatever lists we run, as long as we're main-boarded well vs aggro and midrange game 1, and can side in an anti-control package, the list will be pretty competitive.
I've been doing playtesting, and the deck is amazing against playtest decks I've played. Mono white, RDW, Selesyna mid, UW control, the Rock, and naya. We're not there yet, but we might be the new Jund of the meta, who knows.
Yes, you are. You are rude, I've been on this board for a few months and it is already obvious to me, too. Why dont you take your nerd rage and cyber bullying elsewhere, please. The rest of us would like to discuss a card game and the strategies behind it.
If you start your next post with "I'm not" or "I didnt" or "Youre wrong" you are only proving our points.
I've been plaing Magic a loooong time. Its so weird that when you get away from the 'cool kids' and play a kind of geeky game that there are still those within the community that think they are better than everyone else. Its like the guy who gets teased in real life feels the need to tease people within his own geeky hobby..
This entire primer seems to exist for you to tell people they are wrong and make fun of them when they say your initial list is lacking, which is probably does need work, like all our decks, and all decks ever, do.
Yes, you are. You are rude, I've been on this board for a few months and it is already obvious to me, too. Why dont you take your nerd rage and cyber bullying elsewhere, please. The rest of us would like to discuss a card game and the strategies behind it.
If you start your next post with "I'm not" or "I didnt" or "Youre wrong" you are only proving our points.
I've been plaing Magic a loooong time. Its so weird that when you get away from the 'cool kids' and play a kind of geeky game that there are still those within the community that think they are better than everyone else. Its like the guy who gets teased in real life feels the need to tease people within his own geeky hobby..
You are either projecting, or really lack the understanding of a blunt statement if you think it is nerd rage or cyber-bullying.
Your representation of this being a geeky game is also a pretty big blanket statement and a subjective one at that.
I merely pointed him to previous discussion as my point was not understood, how in the world is that raging or bullying?
I am blunt, I am stubborn and I like to argue, but don't mistake it at being a bully or raging.
Aurelia takes tools like Reckoner, which are generally a stabilizing agent, and converts them to highly offensive creatures. This is an example of resource conversion and it can win you games you have no business winning. Stating that Elspeth is better than a card that has been tried and tested for months, is a bold statement to make.
Stating that Blood Baron is weaker than a 6/6 hound because Mortars hits it, when the hound catches far more removal than the Baron... is.. well, just terrible.
First off all, I love the deck. It is definitely a control style midrange and with the amount of cheap removal spells, discard and scrying I can keep my opponent off cards until I draw my finishers.
The only thing that I found somewhat underwhelming were the sin collectors main. I understand why most people here seem to them, but for me I feel like they should be more sideboard material. I'd love to run something more akin to Vampire Nighthawk in that slot; I'm actually considering Desecration Demon as I think with the 2 keyrunes the mana won't be too much of an issue. I thought the keyrunes played well, they helped me ramp and fix my man while also becoming a threat on a empty board. I do want to try out Haunted Plate Mail at some point as that card seems interesting.
I'm also thinking of dropping the 2 Duress and replacing them with another Thoughtseize and something else. One card that gave me trouble was Aethering and I really want to fit in something like Pithing Needle to deal with that.
EDIT: Dropped the 2 Duress and the 1 Sin Collector in the board for 2 Pithing Needle and a third Thoughtseize
I also really liked the 3 Tithe Drinkers. They are great to come in against mono red or white weenie to trade with their creatures while gaining some life but they also can come in against slower decks and get some damage in.
Anyways, I will continue to test this deck and probably end up buying the rest of the cards for it, as I love playing it and I feel that it will end up becoming one of the most powerful decks in the format.
It might just be me, but 3 drops are in a funky spot in my testing. Lands coming into play tapped kind of happens around turn 3 or 4. I think cutting Keyrune for Demon is probably going to allow you to keep your turn 3 open for a play like Boros Reckoner or removal if the land comes in tapped. We run a lot of 2 mana removal, so it might be best to either try and land something like reckoner to stabilize, or not have to worry about a 3 drop at all and just play a land tapped into a 4 drop. Seems a bit better to me anyways.
The 3rd Seize would be good, it also helps in dealing with AEtherling as well.
As for Plate Mail, if Obzedat is working for you, by all means, stick with him. He is just a better nod at what Plate Mail does. I am running it because I was primarily unsure/weary of Obzedat in the deck.
Underworld Cerberus is pretty amazing vs control decks IMO, and vs the lighter creature midrange decks, but seems lackluster in stabilizing vs hyper aggro (RDW). Lifelink asap seems to trump that deck pretty well, and that's why Bloodbaron is 4 of, as it also smashes a good amount of the field. The new rock list popping up can't touch it. The naya mid list out can't touch it, except for kalonians, and stormbreath. There's just more evasion and utility gained by Baron to cut it for Cereberus. I do love Cerberus, and have made room for one. Since Obzedat is kind of harsh on the mana base, I cut both and made room for creatures like Stormbreath, and Cerberus.
Now, I have been playing Mythic (I like the new name lol, control the board, then proceed to play mythics :D) for a few months now and feel confident going forward with the following list:
Let me know what you guys think, and if you have any questions for some of the things I've included or left out. I want to include Slaughter Games in the side, but only when the meta stabilizes. In it's place, I included Elspeth, and an additional 1 x Underworld Connections. Like Kamahl posted in the 1st post, our lists are made to trump aggro and midrange, but can side in an anti-control package, which is kind of a nightmare for them. Whatever lists we run, as long as we're main-boarded well vs aggro and midrange game 1, and can side in an anti-control package, the list will be pretty competitive.
I've been doing playtesting, and the deck is amazing against playtest decks I've played. Mono white, RDW, Selesyna mid, UW control, the Rock, and naya. We're not there yet, but we might be the new Jund of the meta, who knows.
I like the new name as well. It is fitting with the number of Mythics the deck runs and also with the Theros theme.
Is 3 Underworld Connections necessary? Seems a little steep as I feel like I would only ever want 1.
EDIT/NOTICE
Since my link to the previous thread was considered abrupt and "rude", if anyone feels like delving through the thread to find various discussion on some of the cards and links me to the actual post via pm and I will link to them in the primer, so people can see previous discussions without me apparently being an ******* in asking that someone go dig it up.
Considering cutting one Underworld and 1 Wear//Tear for 2 Slaughtergames, for Sphinx and Aetherling, or even Obzedat and Blood Baron, as those are risks for us.
I think Elspeth, is a good answer for situations like Blood Baron, from my testing recently, those are the situations where she really does the heavy lifting at times, and it can pave the way for things like Stormbreath to just take over.
I have to agree with Kamahl, people who don't understand the value of Aurelia in a low creature deck obviously have never played with UWR Flash. AJ Sacher made a wonderful point on camera talking about that card and the conversion of resources that really hit home as to why the card is so good. Basically in a control deck (and I do consider my list to be one), you spend the entire game gaining incremental advantages while slowly building your resources (mana, card advantage, board presence). Basically Aurelia allows you to take those resources and convert them into wins by giving all your creatures on board additional value by letting them swing twice. Honestly, she adds more power to the field then any other card despite being a 3/4. So much in fact, that your opponent will often misplay the situation, After all whats a Boros Reckoner when you are at 12 life? Well with Aurelia, thats a lethal swing.
The problem with a card like Elspeth is once you have gained enough resources to win, you sometimes don't. You play her, make three 1/1's and wait for the team to get the job done. This is giving your opponents extra draw steps to potentially get back in the game. This brings me back to AJ's point. His point was that there comes a time when you actually need to just put the nail in coffin, and thats what she brings to the table. Basically, in a nutshell, all Elspeth does is give you 1/1's....Aurelia just kills motherf***ers.
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i'm glad that this archetype is getting the exposure it needs. WE definitely have access to a wide array of tools. hopefully we can refine lists to run the best of those tools.
Kamahl makes many good points about certain card choices and my list would probably be close to kamahl's.
The format is wide open right now, but here are a couple of my thoughts.
1) I don't care so much for 1 CMC removal. i previously used pillar of flame, but since its rotating out, I feel as if magma jet can fill its role and while it won't take care of voice of resurgence, it will definitely add a new facet to draw smoothing which the archetype desperately needed
2) thoughtseize is good, but i'm looking at running 2-3 in my 75
3) unlike kamahl, i do feel like chandra deserves a spot in the 75. especially with scry, i think we can get a lot of mileage out of her
4) mana bases need reworking. I personally stand by the belief that 8 of the scry lands are too much. I"m leaning towards 6.
5) I like Cupid's list the most, but i too believe that 3 underworld connections is way too much
6) I like mizzium mortars main board and siding in the anger of the gods to deal with "faster" aggro decks.
I have to agree with Kamahl, people who don't understand the value of Aurelia in a low creature deck obviously have never played with UWR Flash. AJ Sacher made a wonderful point on camera talking about that card and the conversion of resources that really hit home as to why the card is so good. Basically in a control deck (and I do consider my list to be one), you spend the entire game gaining incremental advantages while slowly building your resources (mana, card advantage, board presence). Basically Aurelia allows you to take those resources and convert them into wins by giving all your creatures on board additional value by letting them swing twice. Honestly, she adds more power to the field then any other card despite being a 3/4. So much in fact, that your opponent will often misplay the situation, After all whats a Boros Reckoner when you are at 12 life? Well with Aurelia, thats a lethal swing.
The problem with a card like Elspeth is once you have gained enough resources to win, you sometimes don't. You play her, make three 1/1's and wait for the team to get the job done. This is giving your opponents extra draw steps to potentially get back in the game. This brings me back to AJ's point. His point was that there comes a time when you actually need to just put the nail in coffin, and thats what she brings to the table. Basically, in a nutshell, all Elspeth does is give you 1/1's....Aurelia just kills motherf***ers.
You are not suppose to agree with me... nobody is... I am everything that makes this thread/deck terrible.
I don't remember the coverage that he made the point on, but if you find it, feel free to link me too it. I know I have seen it before and it was a good statement for why Aurelia is a powerful card.
Kamahl makes many good points about certain card choices and my list would probably be close to kamahl's.
But why?...
1) I don't care so much for 1 CMC removal. i previously used pillar of flame, but since its rotating out, I feel as if magma jet can fill its role and while it won't take care of voice of resurgence, it will definitely add a new facet to draw smoothing which the archetype desperately needed
I was not all that big on it before Theros, and what really brings me back to it, is the fact that sometimes a turn 2 land just needs to come into play tapped. Chained to the Rocks is not just any 1 mana removal spell either. Where Pillar of Flame was not taking out a Thragtusk or a Thundermaw Hellkite, Chained to the Rocks is also good for late game critters or big beaters like Desecration Demon, becuase it has no regard for the target's stats.
2) thoughtseize is good, but i'm looking at running 2-3 in my 75
Seems fine. I personally love to play this card fairly aggressively into openers, but it costs a fair amount of life at times.
3) unlike kamahl, i do feel like chandra deserves a spot in the 75. especially with scry, i think we can get a lot of mileage out of her
My primary issue with her, is that she is doing little to impact the board on turn 4, it leaves me feeling like my plays were just completely awkward and that it was only made because that slot was my only option when it could have been something better. Idk, I feel like I find myself in a corner a lot with her and wishing she was another creature or removal spell.
4) mana bases need reworking. I personally stand by the belief that 8 of the scry lands are too much. I"m leaning towards 6.
I am on 6 with a single Guildgate, and it seems fine. I was on only 6 ETBT lands and the jump lead to a fairly frequent situation of being one color off at terrible times. It is tricky, but I think 7 is the sweet spot for me. 6 is definitely doable with some other number changes in the main, idk.
As for scry lands, Im going to do the full 8. I honestly haven't felt the negative impact too much, and scry lands for this deck are WAY better than they are in my esper control deck. There's a possibility this is wrong but the deck is still functional so I'm not too worried about it. I still have a full 2 weeks to prepare for the first 5k of the season so hopefully I can decide on a deck and get the kinks worked out by then.
@Kensanity: I've been testing 3 Anger of the Gods in the main and its been pretty horrible in every matchup except aggro. I want to say that makes it worth the 3 spots just on it's own, but I feel as if the match up with Mortars in the main is still winnable. I BIG BIG weakness in my list is Burning Tree Emissary decks, and that's where Anger of the Gods really shines. Against aggro decks that dont cheat out extra guys though, I feel like I have enough removal to 1 for 1 awhile, then take a few hits to set up Mortars and still be fine. So since it's just really BTE aggro im worried about, Im thinking maybe it is ok for it to stay in the side.
@Kahmal, I found it...http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/381299369 the discussion starts at 6:27:30 or so. For those who havent seen it, I really recommend you do. Really great stuff here.
Thanks, I added it to the Primer. I will be wrapping it up tomorrow and Thursday, ideally. If anyone wants to co-write the match up sections (what we know of anyways) with me, let me know.
Why would anyone post in this thread if you don't want other people to respond to you?
I have followed this iteration and the previous of this thread for several months now and Kamahl has never come off as rude.
Kamahl isn't putting a gun to your head forcing you to play his decklist, he merely states his views on why he wouldn't run a card. In fact I pointed out in another thread that the Dega Midrange, and now Mythic Midrange(great new name by the way)is one of the best primers on this site due to the amount of replies Kamahl and others give.
I have seen countless clone threads on decks due to people posting in primers and not getting a response so they make a new thread to try to get some feedback. This thread is great and I like the feedback, good or bad, so if you don't want a reply to your post; then DON'T POST.
Auriela the Warleader is awesome, one of my most memorable plays with her was starting down a lethal RDW horde that was tapped out, but could swing next turn and kill me. I had a Blood Baron on the field, but the life gain wasn't going to save me, luckily I had used Faithless Looting on turn 1 to drop Auriela and an Unburial Rites into the graveyard. My opponent hadn't noticed since I had causally chucked them away and I proceeded to Rites her out and the double swing with her and Baron provided exactly lethal damage on my opponent. She doubles the damage you can do in combat and that is huge!
Thanks, I added it to the Primer. I will be wrapping it up tomorrow and Thursday, ideally. If anyone wants to co-write the match up sections (what we know of anyways) with me, let me know.
Yeah pm me, and I can help out to the best of my knowledge.
Why would anyone post in this thread if you don't want other people to respond to you?
I have followed this iteration and the previous of this thread for several months now and Kamahl has never come off as rude.
Kamahl isn't putting a gun to your head forcing you to play his decklist, he merely states his views on why he wouldn't run a card. In fact I pointed out in another thread that the Dega Midrange, and now Mythic Midrange(great new name by the way)is one of the best primers on this site due to the amount of replies Kamahl and others give.
I have seen countless clone threads on decks due to people posting in primers and not getting a response so they make a new thread to try to get some feedback. This thread is great and I like the feedback, good or bad, so if you don't want a reply to your post; then DON'T POST.
Auriela the Warleader is awesome, one of my most memorable plays with her was starting down a lethal RDW horde that was tapped out, but could swing next turn and kill me. I had a Blood Baron on the field, but the life gain wasn't going to save me, luckily I had used Faithless Looting on turn 1 to drop Auriela and an Unburial Rites into the graveyard. My opponent hadn't noticed since I had causally chucked them away and I proceeded to Rites her out and the double swing with her and Baron provided exactly lethal damage on my opponent. She doubles the damage you can do in combat and that is huge!
Definitely! Aurelia provides wins that shouldn't be wins lol. She can be quite amazing with a life bane or 2 on the field, or reckoners also (beisdes the amazing baron + aurelia followup) I've beaten elves with lifebanes + aurelia. 18 damage in 1 turn :). So she should be a 1 of or 2 of, I feel to go over the top on midrange decks, or even racing aggro. I know lifebanes seem to be sideboard material, but they've saved me in games, and that's why I include 3 in the main. Naya seems like it will have a good deck, as the core is still there, and snagging a reckoner or ghor clan is always nice.
Apparently the name for these decks (given by high level players in testing,) is Borzhov. I like your names better though. It has a lot of potential, but Big red and its main board burning earths seem to be a big problem for us in testing. I find we have a hard enough time holding them off to the point that we're dropping our 5 drops, which they're doing the same and dropping a burning earth.
Chandra seems 0/10 maindboard, 9.9/10 sideboarded as a 2/3 of.
Ah, my bad, I thought you were arguing that our removal wasn't good enough to handle BTE and we needed a sweeper. I don't want to take the chance of the opponent building against me plus there are a few sweeper protections that aggro can use to blank the sweep, leaving me hoping to draw into my fewer removal spells.
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That argument makes no sense... against an aggro deck that is probably playing red Blood Baron will do absolutely nothing but get Mortared. Considering you have such few creatures for them to actually use it on.
I dont see how Aurelia converts resources. She is just not as good as Elspeth. If you are behind Aurelia will not help you except to possibly dome then for 6, as where elspeth put out three bodies, and will direct some damage to her instead of you. She also has a relevant minus ability.
191 pages of history.
Have fun.
If you're just going to argue with every suggestion someone makes to this deck why even run the Primer? I saw this happen a lot in the last on you had as well. You always think you're right about everything and it doesn't make for a healthy conversation obviously. As for you "191 pages of history" that mean nothing. That archetype didn't post any real number to talk about. No GPs, no Starcity Opens, nothing. I don't see why you have to talk to me like I am stupid or belittle me. Its just rude.
The information is there. If you want a clear reason as to why and how the card functions, it is there.
Baron dying to Mortars is a completely shoddy argument to make, considering no red aggro decks in current iterations are really even running it main and really have no reason to run it over other options. Not running a remarkably powerful card because of Mizzium Mortars is weak.
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Sin Collector
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks
Sorceries
3 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Thoughtseize
1 Rakdos's Return
Instants
4 Magma Jet
2 Doom Blade
3 Warleader's Helix
2 Rakdos Keyrune
Lands
4 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Mutavault
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Wear // Tear
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Rakdos' Return
3 Tithe Drinker
1 Assemble the Legion
First off all, I love the deck. It is definitely a control style midrange and with the amount of cheap removal spells, discard and scrying I can keep my opponent off cards until I draw my finishers.
The only thing that I found somewhat underwhelming were the sin collectors main. I understand why most people here seem to them, but for me I feel like they should be more sideboard material. I'd love to run something more akin to Vampire Nighthawk in that slot; I'm actually considering Desecration Demon as I think with the 2 keyrunes the mana won't be too much of an issue. I thought the keyrunes played well, they helped me ramp and fix my man while also becoming a threat on a empty board. I do want to try out Haunted Plate Mail at some point as that card seems interesting.
I'm also thinking of dropping the 2 Duress and replacing them with another Thoughtseize and something else. One card that gave me trouble was Aethering and I really want to fit in something like Pithing Needle to deal with that.
EDIT: Dropped the 2 Duress and the 1 Sin Collector in the board for 2 Pithing Needle and a third Thoughtseize
I also really liked the 3 Tithe Drinkers. They are great to come in against mono red or white weenie to trade with their creatures while gaining some life but they also can come in against slower decks and get some damage in.
Anyways, I will continue to test this deck and probably end up buying the rest of the cards for it, as I love playing it and I feel that it will end up becoming one of the most powerful decks in the format.
Underworld Cerberus is pretty amazing vs control decks IMO, and vs the lighter creature midrange decks, but seems lackluster in stabilizing vs hyper aggro (RDW). Lifelink asap seems to trump that deck pretty well, and that's why Bloodbaron is 4 of, as it also smashes a good amount of the field. The new rock list popping up can't touch it. The naya mid list out can't touch it, except for kalonians, and stormbreath. There's just more evasion and utility gained by Baron to cut it for Cereberus. I do love Cerberus, and have made room for one. Since Obzedat is kind of harsh on the mana base, I cut both and made room for creatures like Stormbreath, and Cerberus.
Now, I have been playing Mythic (I like the new name lol, control the board, then proceed to play mythics :D) for a few months now and feel confident going forward with the following list:
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
Creatures:
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Underworld Cerberus
3 Chained to the Rocks
Spells
2 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Warleader's Helix
2 Doom Blade
3 Magma Jet
3 Thoughtseize
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rakdos's Return
3 Underworld Connections
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Assemble the Legion
3 Wear//Tear
3 Sin Collector
3 Anger of the Gods
Let me know what you guys think, and if you have any questions for some of the things I've included or left out. I want to include Slaughter Games in the side, but only when the meta stabilizes. In it's place, I included Elspeth, and an additional 1 x Underworld Connections. Like Kamahl posted in the 1st post, our lists are made to trump aggro and midrange, but can side in an anti-control package, which is kind of a nightmare for them. Whatever lists we run, as long as we're main-boarded well vs aggro and midrange game 1, and can side in an anti-control package, the list will be pretty competitive.
I've been doing playtesting, and the deck is amazing against playtest decks I've played. Mono white, RDW, Selesyna mid, UW control, the Rock, and naya. We're not there yet, but we might be the new Jund of the meta, who knows.
Yes, you are. You are rude, I've been on this board for a few months and it is already obvious to me, too. Why dont you take your nerd rage and cyber bullying elsewhere, please. The rest of us would like to discuss a card game and the strategies behind it.
If you start your next post with "I'm not" or "I didnt" or "Youre wrong" you are only proving our points.
I've been plaing Magic a loooong time. Its so weird that when you get away from the 'cool kids' and play a kind of geeky game that there are still those within the community that think they are better than everyone else. Its like the guy who gets teased in real life feels the need to tease people within his own geeky hobby..
This entire primer seems to exist for you to tell people they are wrong and make fun of them when they say your initial list is lacking, which is probably does need work, like all our decks, and all decks ever, do.
You are either projecting, or really lack the understanding of a blunt statement if you think it is nerd rage or cyber-bullying.
Your representation of this being a geeky game is also a pretty big blanket statement and a subjective one at that.
I merely pointed him to previous discussion as my point was not understood, how in the world is that raging or bullying?
I am blunt, I am stubborn and I like to argue, but don't mistake it at being a bully or raging.
Aurelia takes tools like Reckoner, which are generally a stabilizing agent, and converts them to highly offensive creatures. This is an example of resource conversion and it can win you games you have no business winning. Stating that Elspeth is better than a card that has been tried and tested for months, is a bold statement to make.
Stating that Blood Baron is weaker than a 6/6 hound because Mortars hits it, when the hound catches far more removal than the Baron... is.. well, just terrible.
It might just be me, but 3 drops are in a funky spot in my testing. Lands coming into play tapped kind of happens around turn 3 or 4. I think cutting Keyrune for Demon is probably going to allow you to keep your turn 3 open for a play like Boros Reckoner or removal if the land comes in tapped. We run a lot of 2 mana removal, so it might be best to either try and land something like reckoner to stabilize, or not have to worry about a 3 drop at all and just play a land tapped into a 4 drop. Seems a bit better to me anyways.
The 3rd Seize would be good, it also helps in dealing with AEtherling as well.
As for Plate Mail, if Obzedat is working for you, by all means, stick with him. He is just a better nod at what Plate Mail does. I am running it because I was primarily unsure/weary of Obzedat in the deck.
I like the new name as well. It is fitting with the number of Mythics the deck runs and also with the Theros theme.
Is 3 Underworld Connections necessary? Seems a little steep as I feel like I would only ever want 1.
EDIT/NOTICE
Since my link to the previous thread was considered abrupt and "rude", if anyone feels like delving through the thread to find various discussion on some of the cards and links me to the actual post via pm and I will link to them in the primer, so people can see previous discussions without me apparently being an ******* in asking that someone go dig it up.
The problem with a card like Elspeth is once you have gained enough resources to win, you sometimes don't. You play her, make three 1/1's and wait for the team to get the job done. This is giving your opponents extra draw steps to potentially get back in the game. This brings me back to AJ's point. His point was that there comes a time when you actually need to just put the nail in coffin, and thats what she brings to the table. Basically, in a nutshell, all Elspeth does is give you 1/1's....Aurelia just kills motherf***ers.
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
Kamahl makes many good points about certain card choices and my list would probably be close to kamahl's.
The format is wide open right now, but here are a couple of my thoughts.
1) I don't care so much for 1 CMC removal. i previously used pillar of flame, but since its rotating out, I feel as if magma jet can fill its role and while it won't take care of voice of resurgence, it will definitely add a new facet to draw smoothing which the archetype desperately needed
2) thoughtseize is good, but i'm looking at running 2-3 in my 75
3) unlike kamahl, i do feel like chandra deserves a spot in the 75. especially with scry, i think we can get a lot of mileage out of her
4) mana bases need reworking. I personally stand by the belief that 8 of the scry lands are too much. I"m leaning towards 6.
5) I like Cupid's list the most, but i too believe that 3 underworld connections is way too much
6) I like mizzium mortars main board and siding in the anger of the gods to deal with "faster" aggro decks.
You are not suppose to agree with me... nobody is... I am everything that makes this thread/deck terrible.
I don't remember the coverage that he made the point on, but if you find it, feel free to link me too it. I know I have seen it before and it was a good statement for why Aurelia is a powerful card.
But why?...
I was not all that big on it before Theros, and what really brings me back to it, is the fact that sometimes a turn 2 land just needs to come into play tapped. Chained to the Rocks is not just any 1 mana removal spell either. Where Pillar of Flame was not taking out a Thragtusk or a Thundermaw Hellkite, Chained to the Rocks is also good for late game critters or big beaters like Desecration Demon, becuase it has no regard for the target's stats.
Seems fine. I personally love to play this card fairly aggressively into openers, but it costs a fair amount of life at times.
My primary issue with her, is that she is doing little to impact the board on turn 4, it leaves me feeling like my plays were just completely awkward and that it was only made because that slot was my only option when it could have been something better. Idk, I feel like I find myself in a corner a lot with her and wishing she was another creature or removal spell.
I am on 6 with a single Guildgate, and it seems fine. I was on only 6 ETBT lands and the jump lead to a fairly frequent situation of being one color off at terrible times. It is tricky, but I think 7 is the sweet spot for me. 6 is definitely doable with some other number changes in the main, idk.
@Kensanity: I've been testing 3 Anger of the Gods in the main and its been pretty horrible in every matchup except aggro. I want to say that makes it worth the 3 spots just on it's own, but I feel as if the match up with Mortars in the main is still winnable. I BIG BIG weakness in my list is Burning Tree Emissary decks, and that's where Anger of the Gods really shines. Against aggro decks that dont cheat out extra guys though, I feel like I have enough removal to 1 for 1 awhile, then take a few hits to set up Mortars and still be fine. So since it's just really BTE aggro im worried about, Im thinking maybe it is ok for it to stay in the side.
@Kahmal, I found it...http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/381299369 the discussion starts at 6:27:30 or so. For those who havent seen it, I really recommend you do. Really great stuff here.
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
I have followed this iteration and the previous of this thread for several months now and Kamahl has never come off as rude.
Kamahl isn't putting a gun to your head forcing you to play his decklist, he merely states his views on why he wouldn't run a card. In fact I pointed out in another thread that the Dega Midrange, and now Mythic Midrange(great new name by the way)is one of the best primers on this site due to the amount of replies Kamahl and others give.
I have seen countless clone threads on decks due to people posting in primers and not getting a response so they make a new thread to try to get some feedback. This thread is great and I like the feedback, good or bad, so if you don't want a reply to your post; then DON'T POST.
Auriela the Warleader is awesome, one of my most memorable plays with her was starting down a lethal RDW horde that was tapped out, but could swing next turn and kill me. I had a Blood Baron on the field, but the life gain wasn't going to save me, luckily I had used Faithless Looting on turn 1 to drop Auriela and an Unburial Rites into the graveyard. My opponent hadn't noticed since I had causally chucked them away and I proceeded to Rites her out and the double swing with her and Baron provided exactly lethal damage on my opponent. She doubles the damage you can do in combat and that is huge!
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Yeah pm me, and I can help out to the best of my knowledge.
Definitely! Aurelia provides wins that shouldn't be wins lol. She can be quite amazing with a life bane or 2 on the field, or reckoners also (beisdes the amazing baron + aurelia followup) I've beaten elves with lifebanes + aurelia. 18 damage in 1 turn :). So she should be a 1 of or 2 of, I feel to go over the top on midrange decks, or even racing aggro. I know lifebanes seem to be sideboard material, but they've saved me in games, and that's why I include 3 in the main. Naya seems like it will have a good deck, as the core is still there, and snagging a reckoner or ghor clan is always nice.
too bad we didn't get o-ring back!