I Really like the idea of packing Mizzium Mortars in the MB and Anger of the Gods in the SB.
It gives you cheap removal with Mortars while still giving you a sweeper if you absolutely need it, and bringing in Anger of the Gods when you need faster sweeps.
Anger of the Gods in the MB is good, but it feels a lot more like a SB card as it is really only there for a few matches.
Is it the casting cost of Anger you're worried about, or perhaps taking away from a turn you'd rather play Reckoner? Otherwise, I can't see the need for adding yet another piece of targeted removal. We already have 8-9+ direct removal sources between Chained/Dreadbore/Magma Jet/Doom Blade without Mortars.
The only real bonus I can see if that we can kill opposing Blood Baron. Maybe I'm overestimating the value of Anger, but it seems to me that killing Sylvan Caryatid, Fiendslayer Paladin, BTE/Token dumps, and anything else w/ hexproof is really nice to have in game 1.
Edit: I forgot you were running Sin Collector in the main, so I understand the Mortars angle a bit more.
Edit2: Agree with the post above, 2 Reading the Bones seems like the right number. The question outstanding to me is if I want to run Chandra as well.
Is it the casting cost of Anger you're worried about, or perhaps taking away from a turn you'd rather play Reckoner? Otherwise, I can't see the need for adding yet another piece of targeted removal. We already have 8-9+ direct removal sources between Chained/Dreadbore/Magma Jet/Doom Blade without Mortars.
The only real bonus I can see if that we can kill opposing Blood Baron. Maybe I'm overestimating the value of Anger, but it seems to me that killing Sylvan Caryatid, Fiendslayer Paladin, BTE/Token dumps, and anything else w/ hexproof is really nice to have in game 1.
Edit: Agree with the post above, 2 Reading the Bones seems like the right number. The question outstanding to me is if I want to run Chandra as well.
The reason I delegate Anger to the SB is because the sweeper effect is not primarily needed. The deck can reliably trade 1 for 1 into a Blood Baron that can just take over an aggressive game.
Mortars is not taking up any space removal would not be taking up, and it gives you the added flexibility of a sweeper should you need it while still spot removing bigger creatures or diminishing your own board presence. Anger is for overly aggressive matches where there is dedication to board presence. Even mono red decks don't offer enough commitment to really warrant the MB use of Anger of the Gods.
I could see reasons behind running it in the main, however I think the deck does just fine with Mortars in the main because it does not really cut you off of the sweeper effect, while still allowing you to have one should you actually ever need it.
I am also of the mind that anger is a primarily sideboard card unless your local meta is 40% or more surefire aggro.
mortars are just so flexible and fill the curve very nice. I would never be disappointed with a 4th or 5th turn mortar draw. I would not think the same could be said for mainboard anger of the gods.
I've already preordered most of the cards for this deck, though I'm not sure if just trying to replace Thundermaw with Stormbreath, Faithless Looting with Magma Jet, buddylands with scrylands, bonfire of the damned with anger of the gods, is really going to end up that well for us. I haven't played any matches with the new cards yet, so this is mostly just my initial thoughts.
I'm not worried about the 3 color problem. Scry will help us get the colors we need, at least in theory. I've had more than a few games where I had 3 or 4 checklands and no shocklands, so if those were scrylands, I would have been in a much better position. We've only got 2 pairs of scrylands (which is better than just having one) so that's still only 8 lands max. I agree that running some basics will be necessary, and probably won't affect our consistency all that much. Hell, with scry, it'll probably still be more consistent overall than the shock/buddy combo with no scry. Of course I have no numbers to back that up.
I think the core of boros reckoner/ blood baron is very important. Stormbreath dragon is a fine replacement for thundermaw, I'll agree with that. It's monstrous ability will probably be an extra 5 damage on average, which should quickly close the game if they're somehow still alive. I like having Aurelia at the top, and I see no reason to change that. Stuff like Angel of Serenity and Griselbrand always seemed excessive to me (but fun), though without unburial rites it seems like a losing proposition to hardcast them with no ramp.
I'm not sure on the 4 drop slot. Olivia leaves big shoes to fill. I do like chandra, especially if her ultimate becomes more relevant if we're packing more burn than normal in magma jet and helix. We have good stall creatures in reckoner and blood baron if necessary, but we mostly play her for +0, which is fine. Desecration Demon is powerful, but I'm not sure about him in a 3 color deck, but with scry it might be reasonable. Going double red for Anger into double black for DD might not always happen, even with buddy lands. I'm alright with our turn 4 being spent on playing 2 and 3 cost removal/scrying so we don't take 2 from shocks. I could see playing whip of erebos, but it's hard to say without physically testing it
I'm thinking of just condensing the removal down to all hero's downfalls, instead of a split between doomblades and the like. Helix is important still, we're going to be taking more damage from shocks and thoughtseize so life is important. I like Magma jet as the only 2 drop spot removal slot, though it seems like we're either going to be shocking ourselves or playing a basic on turn two to play it. I do like chained to rocks, but I don't feel like it's going to be lasting long on the field. I never played oblivion ring, and that wasn't because it was overcosted, but because we didn't need it. I suppose it can fill the tragic slip slot though, as a one or two of, but I feel like people are going to be packing a lot of artifact and enchantment hate, so if we run neither that gives them dead cards in their hand.
As for Anger of the Gods.. I'm on the fence about it. On one hand, I love the card. I've been wanting something better than Rolling Temblor for a long time now (though coincidentally Temblor was pretty good in the deck because of flashback, and not killing your own reckoners). Without Unburial Rites, I don't care about killing our own reckoners now, but honestly, if you have a reckoner out, you're probably in a pretty good defensive spot. To be fair though, they're at the same CMC so you'd obviously play Anger first. Another thing to consider is whip of erebos. I can see siding it in with sin collectors and lifebane zombies to sort of get the same effect resto angel would, with the added benefit of gaining some life out of the process. Rescue from the underworld is a one shot double blink sort of thing, which could be interesting, but without playing it, i'm not sure. It is instant though, which is sweet, but they come back during your upkeep and with no haste.
Oddly enough, one thing I am trying to solve for with Anger is limiting the amount of dead cards Game 1 against decks who don't run creatures I can remove (mainly control now, hexproof in the last format). Both of the lists in the initial post are running 14 removal/DD, including the 4 Magma Jets.
When sideboarding against U/W-AEtherling, just as an example, are you keeping all of the Magma Jets and Warleader's Helix to nuke Planeswalkers? Dreadbore as well? That leaves ~5-8 direct removal that should go to the SB? Some of the lists without many walkers seem to need even more cards to come out.
If I can get Anger (and Mortars?) to be more efficient, removing multiples in most agro/creature matchups, can I create a deck with less dead cards in Game 1 that is more competitive against control? Your feedback is appreciated.
All I will say is that I have read and heard a LOT of hype about Esper Control, so everyone better be ready to pack Pithing Needle and maybe Slaughter Games in the sideboard to hit Aetherling. :/
All I will say is that I have read and heard a LOT of hype about Esper Control, so everyone better be ready to pack Pithing Needle and maybe Slaughter Games in the sideboard to hit Aetherling. :/
Aetherling by himself is a bit slow to get there though. Access to Thoughtseize, Duress, Rakdos's Return and Slaughter games should heavily skew Control MU in your favor.
Sin Collector and your hard to answer threats also play a very big part in that regard, especially as they help you to eventually force through your threats and potentially offset control's normally superior CA.
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Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
No desire to include Lifebane Zombie? I have not seem that card is most of the lists around here. Is it because of the double B being a pain with the new lands?
Although it is a meta call, I am just pointing out how we will probably face Obzedat, Baron, Thune, Ghor, Reckoner, Green/White God, Reaper of the Wilds, Hydras, in between others. Also, avoiding Doom Blade and evasion to drop PWs or even to simply deal damage to people in a format without Tusk might be useful further on.
Oddly enough, one thing I am trying to solve for with Anger is limiting the amount of dead cards Game 1 against decks who don't run creatures I can remove (mainly control now, hexproof in the last format). Both of the lists in the initial post are running 14 removal/DD, including the 4 Magma Jets.
When sideboarding against U/W-AEtherling, just as an example, are you keeping all of the Magma Jets and Warleader's Helix to nuke Planeswalkers? Dreadbore as well? That leaves ~5-8 direct removal that should go to the SB? Some of the lists without many walkers seem to need even more cards to come out.
If I can get Anger (and Mortars?) to be more efficient, removing multiples in most agro/creature matchups, can I create a deck with less dead cards in Game 1 that is more competitive against control? Your feedback is appreciated.
mainboard seize, rakdos return, dreadbore, and sin collectors along with some early threats can often keep u based control starved for answers by the time they are ready for revelation and aetherling. sidbording out doomblades and mortars game two for needles/slaughter games and particular answers to any of their other threats should be good.
my concern is: what sort of decks are you playing against where a t3 or t4 anger is needed that will dictate how much you will need them game one.
any deck is going to roll over to a nut draw of bte and beats turn 2 and 3, but that is still not enough to warrent it in the first place.
sorry for my poor typing using a phone from work atm
No desire to include Lifebane Zombie? I have not seem that card is most of the lists around here. Is it because of the double B being a pain with the new lands?
Although it is a meta call, I am just pointing out how we will probably face Obzedat, Baron, Thune, Ghor, Reckoner, Green/White God, Reaper of the Wilds, Hydras, in between others. Also, avoiding Doom Blade and evasion to drop PWs or even to simply deal damage to people in a format without Tusk might be useful further on.
It's because Lifebain Zombie is only good against decks that we are already strong against.
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Current standard decks:
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
Why is this in the competitive/established section? Many cards are from a set that hasn't even released yet. By definition there's absolutely nothing "established" about them.
mainboard seize, rakdos return, dreadbore, and sin collectors along with some early threats can often keep u based control starved for answers by the time they are ready for revelation and aetherling. sidbording out doomblades and mortars game two for needles/slaughter games and particular answers to any of their other threats should be good.
my concern is: what sort of decks are you playing against where a t3 or t4 anger is needed that will dictate how much you will need them game one.
any deck is going to roll over to a nut draw of bte and beats turn 2 and 3, but that is still not enough to warrent it in the first place.
sorry for my poor typing using a phone from work atm
I think BTE nut draw is a lot less dangerous with Anger in the main deck. I'm not convinced it's an auto-lose.
Searching around these very forums, I see plenty of decks relying on either:
a) Lots of token generation from Pyromancer/Master of Waves/Assemble/Elspeth
b) Playing Green with Sylvan Caryatid, elvish mystic (R/G, Junk, M14 Garruk)
c) G/W running Voice, Scavenging, Fleecemane, Banisher, Soldier of the Pantheon
d) RDW/WW/Boros
Anger seems like the absolute best turn 3/4 play against any of these decks.
No desire to include Lifebane Zombie? I have not seem that card is most of the lists around here. Is it because of the double B being a pain with the new lands?
Although it is a meta call, I am just pointing out how we will probably face Obzedat, Baron, Thune, Ghor, Reckoner, Green/White God, Reaper of the Wilds, Hydras, in between others. Also, avoiding Doom Blade and evasion to drop PWs or even to simply deal damage to people in a format without Tusk might be useful further on.
BB is a primary reason, yes.
However LBZ also lost a lot of value targets. He is a very meta dependent card, where something like Sin Collector is a bit less of one.
Weird argument since we are not aware of what will pop up after rotation.
Any white creature it snags is almost irrelevant when you are running 5+ finishers that just disregard creatures of those colors anyways. What makes LBZ playable for us is the potential targets green has and the fact that there is very little known on that front, I don't see a reason to spend the mana on a creature as disposable as LBZ, which does not guarantee much.
Why is this in the competitive/established section? Many cards are from a set that hasn't even released yet. By definition there's absolutely nothing "established" about them.
The same can be said about any of the decks in the section... the issue is with section labeling, and the issue was discussed during the restructure if I recall.
This deck also has a much more established core than most decks in this section enough as it is. With virtually nothing rotating out of it, it can easily be considered establish to some degree.
I think BTE nut draw is a lot less dangerous with Anger in the main deck. I'm not convinced it's an auto-lose.
Searching around these very forums, I see plenty of decks relying on either:
a) Lots of token generation from Pyromancer/Master of Waves/Assemble/Elspeth
b) Playing Green with Sylvan Caryatid, elvish mystic (R/G, Junk, M14 Garruk)
c) G/W running Voice, Scavenging, Fleecemane, Banisher, Soldier of the Pantheon
d) RDW/WW/Boros
Anger seems like the absolute best turn 3/4 play against any of these decks.
As long as any deck running Thoughtseize exists, BTE nut draws might as well not exist.
I feel like I am just wasting slots on Chandra and Elepeth right now...
I think BTE nut draw is a lot less dangerous with Anger in the main deck. I'm not convinced it's an auto-lose.
Searching around these very forums, I see plenty of decks relying on either:
a) Lots of token generation from Pyromancer/Master of Waves/Assemble/Elspeth
b) Playing Green with Sylvan Caryatid, elvish mystic (R/G, Junk, M14 Garruk)
c) G/W running Voice, Scavenging, Fleecemane, Banisher, Soldier of the Pantheon
d) RDW/WW/Boros
Anger seems like the absolute best turn 3/4 play against any of these decks.
We have Chained to the Rocks for turn 1 removal if needed (I know it is reliant on if you got an opening hand with Sacred Foundry); Doom Blade, Dreadbore, Mortars, Lightning Strike, and Magma Jet for turn 2 removal; and the best anti-aggro wall, Boros Reckoner, for turn 3 plus all of the above removal. We have aggro decks WELL covered. BTE chains are going to be a lot less effective with no Lightning Mauler and Red aggro as a whole is going to suffer from loss of Hellrider. None of Red's turn 4 options right now are as effective as Hellrider was.
Yup, there is no doubt that we can put ~14-15 sources of 1 or 2 CMC removal in our deck to deal with quick agro. No one is arguing that. We've never really had issues with agro in this shell.
The real question I'm asking is if we have the ability to run less purely anti-creature removal cards in our deck, and use sweepers more, to free up space for other cards? Can we handle blitz agro decks, only using 10-11 removal spells, assuming we use Anger+Mortars?
Just trying to think outside the box a bit since this is all theoretical at this point.
How many mountains do you all think you need to support Chained to the Rocks? I sketched out a quick list, and I can't really feel comfortable with more than 11 mountains in a three colour deck, but that seems like way too few to run Chained...
I think this deck needs Underworld Cerberus for sure. Just wondering why no one has mentioned it yet. Seems very powerful and returning past threats that was dealt with.
I also think Elspeth should get a mention here too.
I think this deck needs Underworld Cerberus for sure. Just wondering why no one has mentioned it yet. Seems very powerful and returning past threats that was dealt with.
I also think Elspeth should get a mention here too.
As a 1 of in one of the lists. I think he is better than the 4th or even the 3rd Blood Baron as it dodges Mortars. It also cant get hit by Doomblade, or Ultimate Price (like Blood Baron). Just 4 Blood Barons seems like way too many. Just me though
And still no love for Elspeth? She is probably better than Aurelia in a deck with only 12 creatures in it..
As a 1 of in one of the lists. I think he is better than the 4th or even the 3rd Blood Baron as it dodges Mortars. It also cant get hit by Doomblade, or Ultimate Price (like Blood Baron). Just 4 Blood Barons seems like way too many. Just me though
And still no love for Elspeth? She is probably better than Aurelia in a deck with only 12 creatures in it..
Good luck surviving an aggro onslaught with changes like that.
As for Elspeth over Aurelia, Aurelia converts resources, where Elspeth does not. Aurelia can just win a game out of nowhere, especially with the hound. Seems strange you would advocate the hound and then suggest swapping Aurelia out for Elspeth...
My lists with Elspeth and Chandra are just doing terrible so far in testing.
Is it the casting cost of Anger you're worried about, or perhaps taking away from a turn you'd rather play Reckoner? Otherwise, I can't see the need for adding yet another piece of targeted removal. We already have 8-9+ direct removal sources between Chained/Dreadbore/Magma Jet/Doom Blade without Mortars.
The only real bonus I can see if that we can kill opposing Blood Baron. Maybe I'm overestimating the value of Anger, but it seems to me that killing Sylvan Caryatid, Fiendslayer Paladin, BTE/Token dumps, and anything else w/ hexproof is really nice to have in game 1.
Edit: I forgot you were running Sin Collector in the main, so I understand the Mortars angle a bit more.
Edit2: Agree with the post above, 2 Reading the Bones seems like the right number. The question outstanding to me is if I want to run Chandra as well.
The reason I delegate Anger to the SB is because the sweeper effect is not primarily needed. The deck can reliably trade 1 for 1 into a Blood Baron that can just take over an aggressive game.
Mortars is not taking up any space removal would not be taking up, and it gives you the added flexibility of a sweeper should you need it while still spot removing bigger creatures or diminishing your own board presence. Anger is for overly aggressive matches where there is dedication to board presence. Even mono red decks don't offer enough commitment to really warrant the MB use of Anger of the Gods.
I could see reasons behind running it in the main, however I think the deck does just fine with Mortars in the main because it does not really cut you off of the sweeper effect, while still allowing you to have one should you actually ever need it.
mortars are just so flexible and fill the curve very nice. I would never be disappointed with a 4th or 5th turn mortar draw. I would not think the same could be said for mainboard anger of the gods.
I'm not worried about the 3 color problem. Scry will help us get the colors we need, at least in theory. I've had more than a few games where I had 3 or 4 checklands and no shocklands, so if those were scrylands, I would have been in a much better position. We've only got 2 pairs of scrylands (which is better than just having one) so that's still only 8 lands max. I agree that running some basics will be necessary, and probably won't affect our consistency all that much. Hell, with scry, it'll probably still be more consistent overall than the shock/buddy combo with no scry. Of course I have no numbers to back that up.
I think the core of boros reckoner/ blood baron is very important. Stormbreath dragon is a fine replacement for thundermaw, I'll agree with that. It's monstrous ability will probably be an extra 5 damage on average, which should quickly close the game if they're somehow still alive. I like having Aurelia at the top, and I see no reason to change that. Stuff like Angel of Serenity and Griselbrand always seemed excessive to me (but fun), though without unburial rites it seems like a losing proposition to hardcast them with no ramp.
I'm not sure on the 4 drop slot. Olivia leaves big shoes to fill. I do like chandra, especially if her ultimate becomes more relevant if we're packing more burn than normal in magma jet and helix. We have good stall creatures in reckoner and blood baron if necessary, but we mostly play her for +0, which is fine. Desecration Demon is powerful, but I'm not sure about him in a 3 color deck, but with scry it might be reasonable. Going double red for Anger into double black for DD might not always happen, even with buddy lands. I'm alright with our turn 4 being spent on playing 2 and 3 cost removal/scrying so we don't take 2 from shocks. I could see playing whip of erebos, but it's hard to say without physically testing it
I'm thinking of just condensing the removal down to all hero's downfalls, instead of a split between doomblades and the like. Helix is important still, we're going to be taking more damage from shocks and thoughtseize so life is important. I like Magma jet as the only 2 drop spot removal slot, though it seems like we're either going to be shocking ourselves or playing a basic on turn two to play it. I do like chained to rocks, but I don't feel like it's going to be lasting long on the field. I never played oblivion ring, and that wasn't because it was overcosted, but because we didn't need it. I suppose it can fill the tragic slip slot though, as a one or two of, but I feel like people are going to be packing a lot of artifact and enchantment hate, so if we run neither that gives them dead cards in their hand.
As for Anger of the Gods.. I'm on the fence about it. On one hand, I love the card. I've been wanting something better than Rolling Temblor for a long time now (though coincidentally Temblor was pretty good in the deck because of flashback, and not killing your own reckoners). Without Unburial Rites, I don't care about killing our own reckoners now, but honestly, if you have a reckoner out, you're probably in a pretty good defensive spot. To be fair though, they're at the same CMC so you'd obviously play Anger first. Another thing to consider is whip of erebos. I can see siding it in with sin collectors and lifebane zombies to sort of get the same effect resto angel would, with the added benefit of gaining some life out of the process. Rescue from the underworld is a one shot double blink sort of thing, which could be interesting, but without playing it, i'm not sure. It is instant though, which is sweet, but they come back during your upkeep and with no haste.
anyways, that's just my thoughts.
Oddly enough, one thing I am trying to solve for with Anger is limiting the amount of dead cards Game 1 against decks who don't run creatures I can remove (mainly control now, hexproof in the last format). Both of the lists in the initial post are running 14 removal/DD, including the 4 Magma Jets.
When sideboarding against U/W-AEtherling, just as an example, are you keeping all of the Magma Jets and Warleader's Helix to nuke Planeswalkers? Dreadbore as well? That leaves ~5-8 direct removal that should go to the SB? Some of the lists without many walkers seem to need even more cards to come out.
If I can get Anger (and Mortars?) to be more efficient, removing multiples in most agro/creature matchups, can I create a deck with less dead cards in Game 1 that is more competitive against control? Your feedback is appreciated.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Aetherling by himself is a bit slow to get there though. Access to Thoughtseize, Duress, Rakdos's Return and Slaughter games should heavily skew Control MU in your favor.
Sin Collector and your hard to answer threats also play a very big part in that regard, especially as they help you to eventually force through your threats and potentially offset control's normally superior CA.
Although it is a meta call, I am just pointing out how we will probably face Obzedat, Baron, Thune, Ghor, Reckoner, Green/White God, Reaper of the Wilds, Hydras, in between others. Also, avoiding Doom Blade and evasion to drop PWs or even to simply deal damage to people in a format without Tusk might be useful further on.
mainboard seize, rakdos return, dreadbore, and sin collectors along with some early threats can often keep u based control starved for answers by the time they are ready for revelation and aetherling. sidbording out doomblades and mortars game two for needles/slaughter games and particular answers to any of their other threats should be good.
my concern is: what sort of decks are you playing against where a t3 or t4 anger is needed that will dictate how much you will need them game one.
any deck is going to roll over to a nut draw of bte and beats turn 2 and 3, but that is still not enough to warrent it in the first place.
sorry for my poor typing using a phone from work atm
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It's because Lifebain Zombie is only good against decks that we are already strong against.
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
Weird argument since we are not aware of what will pop up after rotation.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I think BTE nut draw is a lot less dangerous with Anger in the main deck. I'm not convinced it's an auto-lose.
Searching around these very forums, I see plenty of decks relying on either:
a) Lots of token generation from Pyromancer/Master of Waves/Assemble/Elspeth
b) Playing Green with Sylvan Caryatid, elvish mystic (R/G, Junk, M14 Garruk)
c) G/W running Voice, Scavenging, Fleecemane, Banisher, Soldier of the Pantheon
d) RDW/WW/Boros
Anger seems like the absolute best turn 3/4 play against any of these decks.
God Weapons, Detention Sphere, Chained to the Rocks mostly. Not sure if there are any relevant artifacts that are going to see play?
BB is a primary reason, yes.
However LBZ also lost a lot of value targets. He is a very meta dependent card, where something like Sin Collector is a bit less of one.
Burning Earth primarily. It also smashes things like Hammer, Bow and Whip. There are even more targets than just those.
Any white creature it snags is almost irrelevant when you are running 5+ finishers that just disregard creatures of those colors anyways. What makes LBZ playable for us is the potential targets green has and the fact that there is very little known on that front, I don't see a reason to spend the mana on a creature as disposable as LBZ, which does not guarantee much.
The same can be said about any of the decks in the section... the issue is with section labeling, and the issue was discussed during the restructure if I recall.
This deck also has a much more established core than most decks in this section enough as it is. With virtually nothing rotating out of it, it can easily be considered establish to some degree.
As long as any deck running Thoughtseize exists, BTE nut draws might as well not exist.
I feel like I am just wasting slots on Chandra and Elepeth right now...
We have Chained to the Rocks for turn 1 removal if needed (I know it is reliant on if you got an opening hand with Sacred Foundry); Doom Blade, Dreadbore, Mortars, Lightning Strike, and Magma Jet for turn 2 removal; and the best anti-aggro wall, Boros Reckoner, for turn 3 plus all of the above removal. We have aggro decks WELL covered. BTE chains are going to be a lot less effective with no Lightning Mauler and Red aggro as a whole is going to suffer from loss of Hellrider. None of Red's turn 4 options right now are as effective as Hellrider was.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
The real question I'm asking is if we have the ability to run less purely anti-creature removal cards in our deck, and use sweepers more, to free up space for other cards? Can we handle blitz agro decks, only using 10-11 removal spells, assuming we use Anger+Mortars?
Just trying to think outside the box a bit since this is all theoretical at this point.
I also think Elspeth should get a mention here too.
He is in the sample list...
Just because you don't try to find out what will be good doesn't mean nobody else does.
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
As a 1 of in one of the lists. I think he is better than the 4th or even the 3rd Blood Baron as it dodges Mortars. It also cant get hit by Doomblade, or Ultimate Price (like Blood Baron). Just 4 Blood Barons seems like way too many. Just me though
And still no love for Elspeth? She is probably better than Aurelia in a deck with only 12 creatures in it..
Good luck surviving an aggro onslaught with changes like that.
As for Elspeth over Aurelia, Aurelia converts resources, where Elspeth does not. Aurelia can just win a game out of nowhere, especially with the hound. Seems strange you would advocate the hound and then suggest swapping Aurelia out for Elspeth...
My lists with Elspeth and Chandra are just doing terrible so far in testing.