I think you might want another Helix to offset the lifeloss from shocks, Erebos, and TS.
This debate again?
The life loss isn't that bad when you have a couple Helix, 5 different creatures that provide additional Lifegain, and a Whip giving your army Lifegain.
Play your Shock Lands intelligently; you don't have to play every one of them Untapped burning yourself.
I love Boros Charm simply because it can potentially blow out Control decks before they even get started.
If they're tapping out on Turn 4 because I have some early pressure on the board, I cast Boros Charm saving my little army and now it gets bigger.
Or in some cases, playing Charm to Double Strike your Brimaz giving him double the tokens right off the bat.
Boros Charm plays an aggressive game against control, I would rather that then have a side board that is slower and more controlly which plays right into their hands.
Otherwise like your list I might tweak it a bit for my own testing, going:
-1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
-1 Hero's Downfall
+1 Dreadbore
+1 Warleader's Helix
3 Brimaz seems like enough to see at least 1 every game without clogging up your hand with redundant copies.
Those aren't terrible tweeks, but keep this in mind...
Either you underestimate Brimaz, or you underestimate your Opponents?
4 Brimaz I think is correct, simply because I want to be in a position when they kill Brimaz, I can turn around and cast another. Having 4 gives me better odds at doing such a thing...
And to be clear, Brimaz; like Reckoner, is one of those creatures that is threatening enough that they truly want to be killing it the turn it is cast. If I attack or block with it once, it's already growing.
It puts your opponent on a quick clock if they leave it unchecked.
And if they leave it unchecked, I'll win.
So I expect that the first Boros Reckoner and/or Brimaz I cast will draw some heat and be killed.
Combined with Thoughtseize + Sin Collector, the thought process is that I pull a removal spell or 2 from their hands with that combination.
Drop Reckoner, draw another Removal spell, and then Drop Brimaz.
Then I pass the turn, if they use their turn to kill Brimaz, I'm already feeling good about that as this deck has even more power MID GAME.
They pass the Turn, if I have a 2nd copy of Brimaz, I've now pulled 2 to 3 of their removal spells before that 2nd Brimaz.
All of this paves the way for Blood Barons, Obzedats, and Aurelia to clean up.
I absolutely think if you're running Brimaz, you absolutely want all 4.
SB:
-2 Boros Charm
+1 Rakdos's Return
+1 Pithing Needle
-3 Doom Blade (probably put these back in if R/G monsters ends up a significant player, also Ultimate Price might hit more stuff depending on the meta)
+3 Slaughter Games
More control hate.
To use your phrase "More Control Hate"...
This is not the direction I planned to go... I have SOME, control hate already in the Mainboard.
I do bring in SOME control hate on top of that, but the idea is I actually bring in more proactive aggressive cards and force them to control more aggressively.
Turn 4 Verdict to kill a single Brimaz is stuff that I want to see... OR perhaps I turn 3 Collector pulling their only removal spell from their hand and cast Brimaz.
Perhaps they attempt to Verdict turn 5 and I have 2 mana up to cast Boros Charm granting Indestructability.
Perhaps even I use Thoughtseize to take a look at their hand, pull a counter, see Verdicts and DSpheres, and know it's safe to cast Boros Charm giving Brimaz Double Strike.
It's interactions like that I'm more interested in then playing the LONG Game with a Control Matchup hoping to get good value from cards like Rakdos's Return or more Spot Discard.
I think if you take a Midrange deck, dilute it down to be more controlly to battle a control player, that's just a losing battle.
Our deck isn't meant to be CONTROL, making it like that VS a deck that was meant to be control seems like a set up for failure.
I kinda like MD Reckoner and Anger, I'm sure there's corner cases where we can attack control with Reckoner then Anger to hit them for the last points of damage.
I'd like to fit in Stormbreath somewhere and if mono-U continues to be a factor you'll probably want some chained to the rocks as well, as you don't have much that can deal with Master of Waves.
Otherwise, solid list.
To be fair, I always want to be casting ANGER before Reckoner.
I personally don't like to kill my Reckoner with ANGER because it does EXILE our Reckoner.
However; I have had a few ... A FEW games where the stars aligned and I had 2 Reckoners on the battle field, and an ANGER hitting my 2 Reckoners dealing 6 to my opponent actually has finished me games.
It's an unlikely scenario, but it's happened.
The other thing I've done is attacked with Reckoner, hitting a bigger creature for 3, dealing damage back from the other creature to kill something, then Angering to finish off an entire board.
There's def a lot of tricks to be had having maindeck Anger + Reckoner.
But when at all possible, I would rather cast Anger on Turn 3 and kill kill kill before even attempting to start dropping creatures. Kill Kill Discard Kill Kill, then start...
Good luck on your tweeks, let us know how it goes.
I believe that their extra Obzedat is better than a singleton Aurelia. Obzedat is just so much harder for decks to deal with, and vs control you can just not attack when they have mana open, letting the ETB bleed build up. Once you get a whip down Obzedat becames virtually invulnerable to all but Glare of Heresy, and gains 7 life each turn to help race (even vs Colossal Gruul)
I believe that their extra Obzedat is better than a singleton Aurelia. Obzedat is just so much harder for decks to deal with, and vs control you can just not attack when they have mana open, letting the ETB bleed build up. Once you get a whip down Obzedat becames virtually invulnerable to all but Glare of Heresy, and gains 7 life each turn to help race (even vs Colossal Gruul)
I agree to an extent, I still really dig Aurelia.
It'll be hard for me to cut her out again...
It'll either be -Aurelia for the Obzedat, or dropping back down to 3 Baron to make room for the 2nd Obzedat.
I've actually already made the change earlier, I did -1 Baron for +1 Obzedat, as I do still enjoy Aurelia ATM.
I believe that their extra Obzedat is better than a singleton Aurelia. Obzedat is just so much harder for decks to deal with, and vs control you can just not attack when they have mana open, letting the ETB bleed build up. Once you get a whip down Obzedat becames virtually invulnerable to all but Glare of Heresy, and gains 7 life each turn to help race (even vs Colossal Gruul)
I agree to an extent, I still really dig Aurelia.
It'll be hard for me to cut her out again...
It'll either be -Aurelia for the Obzedat, or dropping back down to 3 Baron to make room for the 2nd Obzedat.
I've actually already made the change earlier, I did -1 Baron for +1 Obzedat, as I do still enjoy Aurelia ATM.
Probably a meta call. MonoB can deal with Obzedat.better than any other deck, but is weak to Blood Baron, while Obzedat is better against most other things. Also kinda depends on how many Whips you are running. Obzedat+Whip=GG, while whip does nothing with Baron. Using Whip on Aurelia can be fun though, you just leave her til you have something else that can attack.
If we are just talking about Erebos's card draw, when is that ever better than UWC? Isn't it strictly worse since its more mana up front and more mana later to draw the same amount of cards and lose more life? Even mono black who can regularly wake him up, don't play any in the main (or 1 at the most).
@DjCupid:
It looks like your deck just doesn't play really hard to cast cards like reckoner, brimaz, or hero's downfall. How does it play for you, because I'm wondering if playing easily cast cards is just the way to go in general for these decks.
If we are just talking about Erebos's card draw, when is that ever better than UWC? Isn't it strictly worse since its more mana up front and more mana later to draw the same amount of cards and lose more life? Even mono black who can regularly wake him up, don't play any in the main (or 1 at the most).
@DjCupid:
It looks like your deck just doesn't play really hard to cast cards like reckoner, brimaz, or hero's downfall. How does it play for you, because I'm wondering if playing easily cast cards is just the way to go in general for these decks.
Erebos - Like I said, I honestly don't know the answer to this question, I'm testing it.
So far, I love it!!! My concern though is when Erebos gets removed, as he will.
I think it works better then Connections simply because more often then not I'm able to sit behind a wall of creatures that I cast before Erebos.
More often then not, casting Connections on Turn 3 isn't a good play anyways. Sure in the Control matchup it is, but VS Aggro both RtB and Connections are bad ideas.
If you're casting it a turn earlier then Erebos, chances are you're in a bad spot VS aggro anyways and you're probably going to die anyhow.
I've found that more often then not, I don't need to draw with him to dig.
The deck has an early burst, if the early burst is neutralized and the game starts to stall, then you dig.
I opted to cut the Connections and other cards that tend to be bad in certain matchups like RtB for more threat density and removal.
Trying to play a more aggressive game, Connections just doesn't fit that bill.
I will say, it is harder to wake up Erebos without Connections, I have still woke him up, but it is harder.
I've since added another Obzedat, his 2 BB helps for sure. If Obzedat is killed or countered, sure it's a weak activation to wake up Erebos, but it's been working.
It's merely a testing point, and so far, I love it without the Connections.
If we are just talking about Erebos's card draw, when is that ever better than UWC? Isn't it strictly worse since its more mana up front and more mana later to draw the same amount of cards and lose more life? Even mono black who can regularly wake him up, don't play any in the main (or 1 at the most).
@DjCupid:
It looks like your deck just doesn't play really hard to cast cards like reckoner, brimaz, or hero's downfall. How does it play for you, because I'm wondering if playing easily cast cards is just the way to go in general for these decks.
Well I do play Reckoner in the side. The deck has given me great consistency. With the low amount of untapped Turn 1 Black sources however, Thoughtseize is hard to cast Turn 1, but the card is too good not to have in the deck. Only have tested this new list vs Mono Blue and Mono Black so far, and it's been great so far.
My shop is pretty heavy on the aggro side, GR/GW/NAYA.
Still have the Black and Blue Devotion variants, and UWR/UW/Esper control.
Notes: Brimaz + Reckoner - I'm still toying with this combination. We already know Reckoner VS most of the current top tier aggro decks stops them dead in their tracks till they deal with Reckoner. Brimaz adds to that, sure he's not as good as an aggro deterrent than Reckoner is, but he does his job defensively and offensively as well. I am still toying with this combination, I think it's very strong VS aggro, and the combination applies enough pressure to make it good VS Control too.
4 Dreadbore 0 Downfall (7 total 2 CMC Kill Cards) - My thought process for this decision was that because I have the 8 3 Drop creatures, Brimaz + Reckoner and both of them in their own way being very effective VS Aggro, I wanted more 2 drop removal spells. Kill a creature on Turn 2, then drop Reckoner or Brimaz. If they both are out, it creates a pretty deadly wall.
4 Warleader's Helix - Another iffy decision, however again. It's the same idea as the previous, because I want to be playing either Brimaz or Reckoner on Turn 3 no matter what in MOST cases, I wanted a powerful removal spell at 4 CMC that gave me good value. 4 Damage kills a lot of things in the format, all the while it's gaining me 4 life. I thought it was a good value play. 4 maybe still excessive, I could see dropping this number to 3, but 3 is def where I think I want to be.
2 Mizzium Mortars - I really like Mortars right now... So far I have found Bile Blight to be a bit lacking while Mortars cast for 2 kills most of the creatures in the format. With the way this deck is built, it's reasonable to believe that I could Overload Mortars as well. Overloaded Mortars is almost as good as a Verdict. Sure it's more expensive then Verdict, but it kills most aggro boards in general.
Erebos - I'm still really sold on him as a draw/dig engine for this deck. As much as I've play tested Underworld Connections, it's simply the problem of it being another 3 Drop card. As I said earlier, I truly want to be casting Reckoner 1st, or if I don't have Reckoner then I'm wanting to drop Brimaz. Have zero desire to be casting a Connections on turn 3, probably ever... I find Erebos 10x better!!! It's a bit harder to gain Devotion, but with Whip, Baron, Obzedat, Collector, I still achieve it. It generally has come at the moment of a FINISHER move. Drop Obzedat which completes Devotion, and attack with Erebos to finish. His draw dig however is amazing, more often then not I'm not even needing to draw dig anymore. Between the Scry lands, and the flow of the deck, it no longer feels like a "Half and Half" deck. If the game does stall, and you drop Erebos, you are able to gain so much life with the value cards like Helix and Barons/Obzedats/Whip, that it's perfectly safe to activate the ability to draw 2, 3 cards in a stalled out game.
Duress - I've decided that I like a single Duress in the main. I like the idea of Turn 1 Discard, Turn 2 Discard/Kill, Turn 3 Drop Reckoner or Brimaz. Having the ability to see my opponents hand seems very key to me leading up to my Turn 3 play and decision. So I wanted to create 5 1 cost Discard Effect slots, I added the Sin Collector as an additional bonus. I used to run 2 or 3 Sin Collectors, but again because I really want Brimaz/Reckoner on Turn 3, I dropped the 2 extra Sin Collector for earlier discard. Pulling Verdict from my opponent or removal spells from my opponent and dropping Brimaz on Turn 3 has created blowout scenarios.
9 SCRY Lands - I was running 8, then we got Temple of Malice from BotG, so I upped the count to 10. However; because I really want to be active in the first 3 turns, I lowered the number down to 9. So far this has been fine, I still sometimes have a slow go of it in the first 3 turns, but I think it's acceptable. there are times where it isn't a bother at all. Especially when you don't get many of your SCRY lands early and you can be very active. I've also changed up how I play SCRY lands. If I have the lands that don't come in untapped, I generally play those in the first 2 turns, then play the SCRY lands later on, giving me more reach when the deck starts to usually stall out and struggle.
Sideboard:
The sideboard is really still under constructions...
Lifebane Zombie - I know I want some number of these in there. With GR and GW so popular right now, I think Lifebane Zombie puts in a lot of work VS those decks.
Revoke Existence - This seems like a no brainer auto include... Underworld Connections, Whip/Trident, Enchantment Creatures, GODs... all of those types of cards were heavily played and there's even been an uptick on even more of these cards.
Rakdos's Return - I really like what this can do against control... early to late game, doesn't matter. If you are able to apply some early pressure with creatures early, using the discard to brute force RR to win seems like a plan. Or slow play, brute force a RR around turn 5 or 6, then start dropping bombs. Either way seems like a solid plan.
Boros Charm - I really like having these too... VS Verdict
Sin Collector - This is a no brainer VS Control... It's a creature, it's a EXILE Sorcery/Instant, tag Verdicts and Revelations.
Merciless Eviction - I would like to find room for 2, but maybe 1 is enough. I like this VS Devotion decks. Especially Black Devotion that employs Connections/Whips.
Glad to hear the "half/half" thing has been resolved. You mentioned the sb was still under construction so i will offer a few cents.
I have never been a fan of sb's are 1 ofs for decks that don't have consistent card draw. I read your comments on Erebus, but he is only a 2 of. I would suggest trying to keep the sb to 3 and 4 ofs to give yourself the best chances at seeing them. Here is where i would start, after looking at the deck.
3 Lifebane Zombies
2 Revoke Existance
3 Sin collector
3 Doomblade
1 BBoV
3 Dark betrayal
Personally I would go up one Blood Baron ( good card is good ) and relegate one Erabos to the side. Baron seems better against the field while Erabos has specific MU's where he's really good in.
I'm not really that sure on Reckoner though. Boros Reckoner seems to once again be a card that hedges you against certain MU's but removal+whip=Bromaz covers that angle already. Reckoner just seems sub par against everything not GR Monsters/Wx/Rx aggro so I guess it depends which is more prevalent in your local scene.
Don't care much for the Duress though, although your reasoning behind it is sound. I could definitely see it turning into a Devour Flesh for instance, just to cover the slower nature of your mana base.
Sideboard wise you seem pretty solid, though I think that you're probably too slow to use Boros Charm as effectively as a more aggressive deck would and your list doesn't deem like it lends itself to overextending anyway.
Other than that good luck.
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Glad to hear the "half/half" thing has been resolved.
I wouldn't call it "Resolved", but I feel like the deck with Brimaz and Reckoner offers up some early pressure that can either win on it's own, or cause enough trouble for my opponents to help me get through to other threats in the deck.
Every since I started play testing with Brimaz atleast, it just feels like the deck has gotten smoother and I don't feel like I'm having the "Half and Half" issue as much.
So I don't know if you can call that "Resolved", but it's effective none the less.
You mentioned the sb was still under construction so i will offer a few cents.
I have never been a fan of sb's are 1 ofs for decks that don't have consistent card draw. I read your comments on Erebus, but he is only a 2 of. I would suggest trying to keep the sb to 3 and 4 ofs to give yourself the best chances at seeing them. Here is where i would start, after looking at the deck.
3 Lifebane Zombies
2 Revoke Existance
3 Sin collector
3 Doomblade
1 BBoV
3 Dark betrayal
Very good point! I appreciate it!
With Doom Blade, I have 1 in the mainboard, so I figured 2 in the side as Non Black Aggro insurance should be ok. So I still think 2 is fine for that card...
I do like the Dark Betrayals too actually!
Although I really like Merciless Eviction, I'm afraid you nailed it with the 1 of's in the sideboard. Although Erebos is a decent dig draw engine if the game starts to stall out, it's still not that effective to dig out 1 of's, greatly agree!
Personally I would go up one Blood Baron ( good card is good ) and relegate one Erabos to the side. Baron seems better against the field while Erabos has specific MU's where he's really good in.
You know, I don't have a problem with this suggestion at all...
Everytime I look at the list and play test it, the 2nd Erebos just looks awkward in the mainboard.
I really like Erebos a lot, but it's awkward playing 2 I think in the main.
I toyed with 1 Erebos and 1 Connections, but I really don't like Connections for what I'm trying to do.
1 Connections still may not be that bad though... It's something I'll have to consider.
For now though, I actually like adding something more to the Threat Density instead.
I'm not really that sure on Reckoner though. Boros Reckoner seems to once again be a card that hedges you against certain MU's but removal+whip=Bromaz covers that angle already. Reckoner just seems sub par against everything not GR Monsters/Wx/Rx aggro so I guess it depends which is more prevalent in your local scene.
I admit, Reckoner has lost a bit of it's shine with the removal that's out there now...
But that's sort of the point...
Pairing Reckoner and Brimaz together I think is going to make Reckoner recapture some of that Glory.
That may sound silly, but Reckoner still is a mean card, and my shop is heavy aggro decks. Mostly GR and GW/Naya, so I think with that in mind, Reckoner still cleans that up.
GM1 VS Control, Reckoner has a big enough body that it can be a problem if he's not answered, and if they're answering Reckoner while I'm forcing my opponents to discard other removal, that paves the way for Brimaz, Baron, Obzedat to clean up.
I like what Reckoner is doing right now and with my meta, so I think I'll leave him alone.
What I have considered is 3 Main Board Reckoner and having the 4th in the Side.
I just feel like that is kinda silly looking though, but it's possible...
Don't care much for the Duress though, although your reasoning behind it is sound. I could definitely see it turning into a Devour Flesh for instance, just to cover the slower nature of your mana base.
I agree, it does seem strange, but I like it for what it's doing FOR NOW.
When I actually start really working in some serious play testing next week, this is a slot I'm keeping a close eye on.
How often does it actually hit what I want it to hit (Removal)?
How often do I wish it was a Kill Card?
Would I rather just add more to the Threat Density of the deck instead?
Those will be questions I will keep in the forefront as I'm testing it...
Sideboard wise you seem pretty solid, though I think that you're probably too slow to use Boros Charm as effectively as a more aggressive deck would and your list doesn't deem like it lends itself to overextending anyway.
Other than that good luck.
Thanks, I thought the sideboard was pretty decent although I said it was under construction, there's always room for improvement.
And Civil made a great point with his SB suggestions...
So I'll def re-examine it a bit, but for the most part I think I'm on the right track.
I do greatly appreciate constructive feedback from you guys!
This is why I participate in these forums, not for the personal jabs but because I dig into magic so much that I can't be bugging my friends all hours of the night, so I relegate myself to using Forums to get my fix on. LOL
You 2 are very active in a lot of these threads, when you're giving constructive advice without the little jabs, I really work hard to listen and take it seriously as I do trust your advice.
I know I'm not on y'alls level, but I still enjoy trying.
Little worried about playing BWR on Born of the Gods GameDay; since I played BWR on Theros GameDay and got completely embarrassed with the "Half and Half" thing and mana screw and mulligans all day.
However; I got my playset of Brimaz and really looking to put him to good use.
I've built 3 Test Decks for myself:
BWR Midrange
BW/r Midrange
BW Midrange
I've also built a Black Aggro deck for my Brother who is going to attend his first event for GameDay himself. He's learning how to play magic... (Close to the one that placed 4th in the Super Sunday Series)
We'll see what I end up with for GameDay... It still might be a toss up...
First round was a Minotaur deck. First game he missed one more swamp to combo. Second he got me down to 2 life.
Second rounds was a Boros reckoner infinite life gain deck. He didn't land the combo so 2-0.
Third was Gruul Monsters. Alms worked him first round. Sideboard I dropped all my Barons, helix and keyrunes for RR, Slaughtergames, and lifebane. Didn't draw into any and lost the next 2 games. Domri wrecks my Stormbreath and He played 6 land Reaper which I could not do anything about.
Fourth game was mono black. Lost first game due to not thoughtseizing the game ending pack rat. Sideboarded in duress and slaughtergames. Second game land flood for him. 3rd game he answered all my barons and reckoners/brimaz with devour and mizzium. Alms beast took him down though.
Pretty happy with Alms beast. Brizmas usually gets dealt with right away in most of my games. I have nothing to protect him, such as brave the elements or god's willing. I might be taking him out for " ? " haven't thought of anything yet. Keyrunes are great when i get them. It is conditional 3rd drop. Depending on whether they are playing lots of tap/scry lands as well or dropping their 1-3 drops.
Anyone gettin away with playing Teysa ? Besides her casting cost. I think she would be good to side in against what seems to be up and coming gruul monsters. Heavy duty blocker and free flying token i believe.
WIN 2-0 : RND 1 : VS GW Midrange
There was no match here, Boros Reckoner/Brimaz really shined here. To go along with the removal and Overloaded Mortars.
WIN 2-0 : RND 2 : VS Izzet Spellheart Burn
Very interesting deck, good buddy of mine, but to be honest there wasn't much of a match here either. Boros Reckoner, Brimaz, Helix, Baron all put in major work unhindered.
LOSS 2-1 : RND 3 : VS Mono Green Ramp
Game 1 it was pretty good battle, but he edged me out. To be fair, I really believe I kept a bad hand with little removal and just ran out of steam.
Game 2 I brought in the extra Doom Blades and Lifebane Zombies and took out Brimaz and Connections. Lifebane Zombie + Thoughtseize put in major work.
Game 3 he got a god hand... Turn 1 he drops Mystic, Turn 2 he drops Nykthos, taps his Green + Mystic and plays 2 Burning Trees, then taps Nykthos for 5 and drops Arbor Colossus; all on TURN 2!!!! Then on Turn 3, he does the Monstrous and has a 9/9 hitting me. Turn 4 he then drops 2 Reverent Hunters each were about 8/8 or 9/9 or something. I didn't stand a chance, it was pretty insane...
WIN 2-1 : RND 4 : VS BW Humans Aggro
Game 1 I made a play mistake that cost me the game, then I rebounded to take the next 2 games. Blood Baron, Reckoner were key.
I was very very pleased with how the deck showed out the day before GameDay.
The thing is though, the THEROS GameDay list that I took back a while ago did the same thing. Dominated FNM, and then died a horrible death on GameDay. LOL
Although this is a very very different deck, can't help but see a comparison, but I think I am still ok.
I made a few MINOR modifications to my list though, strictly to the sideboard.
Throughout the night I tried to take mental notes on a bunch of things.
VS the Izzet Deck I brought in my control package since they run lots of Instants/Sorceries, the Control Package is +4 Sin Collector and +2 Duress. That proved to be very very good!
VS Mono Green Ramp, although he got his God Hand and had a 6/6 on Turn 2 and then a 9/9 on Turn 3, all of that would of been moot if I had a Doom Blade in hand. Even an Ultimate Price... I decided my sideboard needed another option giving me total of 5 2 Cost Instant Speed removal spells VS Green Decks. GM2's VS them I will now have 4 Lifebanes + 4 Doom Blades + 1 Ultimate Price to go along with 2 Downfalls and 3 Dreadbores. I feel like that should give me a better matchup even if they draw their god hand.
I didn't feel I needed Revoke Existence, I walked around the tables and I didn't think that Revoke really needs to be a 3 in the 75. I think 2 maybe plenty...
Here is my current list. I committed more to control and less to midrange. The B/R Control primer kicked me over here, so I'm bringing the list here Thoughts?
Here is my current list. I committed more to control and less to midrange. The B/R Control primer kicked me over here, so I'm bringing the list here Thoughts?
I am not liking Boros Reckoner at all in the current meta game. And I think that Obzedate is better than Blood Baron currently as well. Other than that I like the list. How is chained to the rocks for you? Are you having any issues finding a mountain on time with 11 actual mountains?
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Bring back Transmute as a U/B mechanic and take your mill back to the depths of hell where it came from!
The all stars have been pack rats (please don't let people fool you into thinking bile blight means anything), chained to the rocks, spike jester, gift of orzhova and chandra in that order.
Pack rat: I think this needs no explanation. Chained to the Rocks: Ari Lax wrote an article breaking down standard a while ago and he mentioned that removal was too conditional or expensive to gain tempo, chained to the rocks is roughly unconditional, cheap removal, that hits active gods and puts you way ahead on tempo given I'm running nothing, but the most efficient creatures. Spike jester: Even against decks where he gets walled he can put out massive damage before that point. He's almost unfair against control and punishes black for trying to jam underworld connections with no defense. Between this guy and pack rat, your opponents can't stumble or they will end up very behind. Also he can out pace pack rats, if you have any removal. Gift of orzhova: This card just blows out removal light decks. Mono blue, hexproof, aggro, whatever. They all just kinda get stomped. Chandra: Its a card advantage engine that has other utilities. She carried several grindy games by getting me through my deck faster and helped me close them out by getting attackers through. I'm not sure I can argue she's better than UWC, but double black on 3 is pretty rough for this mana base so its fine with me. Main thing I learned was her +1 is often very useful.
Things I'd like to improve: I feel it would be nice to not have the 4 spot so crowed and to have more 3 drops, but I don't think there's any the are good enough aside from rakdos keyrune. Also the mana can get sketchy, mostly with casting d demon and sometimes chained to the rocks.
I don't like lifebane zombie at all. Green is already pretty bad and really doesn't need the extra hate. It dies to searing blood. And it trades or dies with everything in mono black (the most popular deck). Double black on turn 2 is also rough.
Btw, ended up dropping this deck again. It was doing fine, but I realized not being able to play thoughtseize on turn 1 was pretty huge. Chained to the rocks and assemble are amazing cards to have access to, but they are not worth thoughtsize I don't think. So I'm back in black/red.
66.6% Mainboard, and 66.6% Sideboard with the list I posted above.
This debate again?
The life loss isn't that bad when you have a couple Helix, 5 different creatures that provide additional Lifegain, and a Whip giving your army Lifegain.
Play your Shock Lands intelligently; you don't have to play every one of them Untapped burning yourself.
It's not as bad as it may seem, I assure you.
I love Boros Charm simply because it can potentially blow out Control decks before they even get started.
If they're tapping out on Turn 4 because I have some early pressure on the board, I cast Boros Charm saving my little army and now it gets bigger.
Or in some cases, playing Charm to Double Strike your Brimaz
giving him double the tokens right off the bat.Boros Charm plays an aggressive game against control, I would rather that then have a side board that is slower and more controlly which plays right into their hands.
Just my thought process at work...
Those aren't terrible tweeks, but keep this in mind...
Either you underestimate Brimaz, or you underestimate your Opponents?
4 Brimaz I think is correct, simply because I want to be in a position when they kill Brimaz, I can turn around and cast another. Having 4 gives me better odds at doing such a thing...
And to be clear, Brimaz; like Reckoner, is one of those creatures that is threatening enough that they truly want to be killing it the turn it is cast. If I attack or block with it once, it's already growing.
It puts your opponent on a quick clock if they leave it unchecked.
And if they leave it unchecked, I'll win.
So I expect that the first Boros Reckoner and/or Brimaz I cast will draw some heat and be killed.
Combined with Thoughtseize + Sin Collector, the thought process is that I pull a removal spell or 2 from their hands with that combination.
Drop Reckoner, draw another Removal spell, and then Drop Brimaz.
Then I pass the turn, if they use their turn to kill Brimaz, I'm already feeling good about that as this deck has even more power MID GAME.
They pass the Turn, if I have a 2nd copy of Brimaz, I've now pulled 2 to 3 of their removal spells before that 2nd Brimaz.
All of this paves the way for Blood Barons, Obzedats, and Aurelia to clean up.
I absolutely think if you're running Brimaz, you absolutely want all 4.
To use your phrase "More Control Hate"...
This is not the direction I planned to go... I have SOME, control hate already in the Mainboard.
I do bring in SOME control hate on top of that, but the idea is I actually bring in more proactive aggressive cards and force them to control more aggressively.
Turn 4 Verdict to kill a single Brimaz is stuff that I want to see... OR perhaps I turn 3 Collector pulling their only removal spell from their hand and cast Brimaz.
Perhaps they attempt to Verdict turn 5 and I have 2 mana up to cast Boros Charm granting Indestructability.
Perhaps even I use Thoughtseize to take a look at their hand, pull a counter, see Verdicts and DSpheres, and know it's safe to cast Boros Charm giving Brimaz Double Strike.
It's interactions like that I'm more interested in then playing the LONG Game with a Control Matchup hoping to get good value from cards like Rakdos's Return or more Spot Discard.
I think if you take a Midrange deck, dilute it down to be more controlly to battle a control player, that's just a losing battle.
Our deck isn't meant to be CONTROL, making it like that VS a deck that was meant to be control seems like a set up for failure.
...just my 2 cents
To be fair, I always want to be casting ANGER before Reckoner.
I personally don't like to kill my Reckoner with ANGER because it does EXILE our Reckoner.
However; I have had a few ... A FEW games where the stars aligned and I had 2 Reckoners on the battle field, and an ANGER hitting my 2 Reckoners dealing 6 to my opponent actually has finished me games.
It's an unlikely scenario, but it's happened.
The other thing I've done is attacked with Reckoner, hitting a bigger creature for 3, dealing damage back from the other creature to kill something, then Angering to finish off an entire board.
There's def a lot of tricks to be had having maindeck Anger + Reckoner.
But when at all possible, I would rather cast Anger on Turn 3 and kill kill kill before even attempting to start dropping creatures. Kill Kill Discard Kill Kill, then start...
Good luck on your tweeks, let us know how it goes.
FACT!
Thanks for pointing that out, the argument is still valid though, just minus that piece of it.
Aurelia however will give him double Tokens.
I agree to an extent, I still really dig Aurelia.
It'll be hard for me to cut her out again...
It'll either be -Aurelia for the Obzedat, or dropping back down to 3 Baron to make room for the 2nd Obzedat.
I've actually already made the change earlier, I did -1 Baron for +1 Obzedat, as I do still enjoy Aurelia ATM.
Probably a meta call. MonoB can deal with Obzedat.better than any other deck, but is weak to Blood Baron, while Obzedat is better against most other things. Also kinda depends on how many Whips you are running. Obzedat+Whip=GG, while whip does nothing with Baron. Using Whip on Aurelia can be fun though, you just leave her til you have something else that can attack.
@DjCupid:
It looks like your deck just doesn't play really hard to cast cards like reckoner, brimaz, or hero's downfall. How does it play for you, because I'm wondering if playing easily cast cards is just the way to go in general for these decks.
Erebos - Like I said, I honestly don't know the answer to this question, I'm testing it.
So far, I love it!!! My concern though is when Erebos gets removed, as he will.
I think it works better then Connections simply because more often then not I'm able to sit behind a wall of creatures that I cast before Erebos.
More often then not, casting Connections on Turn 3 isn't a good play anyways. Sure in the Control matchup it is, but VS Aggro both RtB and Connections are bad ideas.
If you're casting it a turn earlier then Erebos, chances are you're in a bad spot VS aggro anyways and you're probably going to die anyhow.
I've found that more often then not, I don't need to draw with him to dig.
The deck has an early burst, if the early burst is neutralized and the game starts to stall, then you dig.
I opted to cut the Connections and other cards that tend to be bad in certain matchups like RtB for more threat density and removal.
Trying to play a more aggressive game, Connections just doesn't fit that bill.
I will say, it is harder to wake up Erebos without Connections, I have still woke him up, but it is harder.
I've since added another Obzedat, his 2 BB helps for sure. If Obzedat is killed or countered, sure it's a weak activation to wake up Erebos, but it's been working.
It's merely a testing point, and so far, I love it without the Connections.
Well I do play Reckoner in the side. The deck has given me great consistency. With the low amount of untapped Turn 1 Black sources however, Thoughtseize is hard to cast Turn 1, but the card is too good not to have in the deck. Only have tested this new list vs Mono Blue and Mono Black so far, and it's been great so far.
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Desecration Demon
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Assemble the Legions
2 Bile Blight
4 Dreadbore
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Warleader's Helix
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Read the Bones
1 Rakdos Keyrune
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Triumph
2 Mountain
2 Plains
In aggressive metas -1 Thoughseize, +1 Reckoner
I say it's moot because it'll get ripped and then there'll be a reiteration of how bad BWR is and how unplayable it is...
BUT: Seeing's how there hasn't been much activity lately, I'll initiate... I noticed a new Primer was started, but I'll stick to this one...
I've been actively playing UB Control, Grixis Control; but both of those are starting to suffer I feel in my local meta.
I still haven't put down BWR Midrange, but I'm also examining BW Midrange for myself (GameDay), while building BR Aggro for my brother.
I'm planning to play this for Game Day as I have managed to acquire 4 Brimaz over the weekend.
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Sin Collector
Spells: 17
4 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
4 Dreadbore
1 Doom Blade
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Warleader's Helix
1 Revoke Existence
1 Whip of Erebos
Lands: 26
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Sin Collector
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Revoke Existence
1 Merciless Eviction
2 Doom Blade
2 Boros Charm
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Here's the list I'm trying to tweek for GameDay.
My shop is pretty heavy on the aggro side, GR/GW/NAYA.
Still have the Black and Blue Devotion variants, and UWR/UW/Esper control.
Notes:
Brimaz + Reckoner - I'm still toying with this combination. We already know Reckoner VS most of the current top tier aggro decks stops them dead in their tracks till they deal with Reckoner. Brimaz adds to that, sure he's not as good as an aggro deterrent than Reckoner is, but he does his job defensively and offensively as well. I am still toying with this combination, I think it's very strong VS aggro, and the combination applies enough pressure to make it good VS Control too.
4 Dreadbore 0 Downfall (7 total 2 CMC Kill Cards) - My thought process for this decision was that because I have the 8 3 Drop creatures, Brimaz + Reckoner and both of them in their own way being very effective VS Aggro, I wanted more 2 drop removal spells. Kill a creature on Turn 2, then drop Reckoner or Brimaz. If they both are out, it creates a pretty deadly wall.
4 Warleader's Helix - Another iffy decision, however again. It's the same idea as the previous, because I want to be playing either Brimaz or Reckoner on Turn 3 no matter what in MOST cases, I wanted a powerful removal spell at 4 CMC that gave me good value. 4 Damage kills a lot of things in the format, all the while it's gaining me 4 life. I thought it was a good value play. 4 maybe still excessive, I could see dropping this number to 3, but 3 is def where I think I want to be.
2 Mizzium Mortars - I really like Mortars right now... So far I have found Bile Blight to be a bit lacking while Mortars cast for 2 kills most of the creatures in the format. With the way this deck is built, it's reasonable to believe that I could Overload Mortars as well. Overloaded Mortars is almost as good as a Verdict. Sure it's more expensive then Verdict, but it kills most aggro boards in general.
Erebos - I'm still really sold on him as a draw/dig engine for this deck. As much as I've play tested Underworld Connections, it's simply the problem of it being another 3 Drop card. As I said earlier, I truly want to be casting Reckoner 1st, or if I don't have Reckoner then I'm wanting to drop Brimaz. Have zero desire to be casting a Connections on turn 3, probably ever... I find Erebos 10x better!!! It's a bit harder to gain Devotion, but with Whip, Baron, Obzedat, Collector, I still achieve it. It generally has come at the moment of a FINISHER move. Drop Obzedat which completes Devotion, and attack with Erebos to finish. His draw dig however is amazing, more often then not I'm not even needing to draw dig anymore. Between the Scry lands, and the flow of the deck, it no longer feels like a "Half and Half" deck. If the game does stall, and you drop Erebos, you are able to gain so much life with the value cards like Helix and Barons/Obzedats/Whip, that it's perfectly safe to activate the ability to draw 2, 3 cards in a stalled out game.
Duress - I've decided that I like a single Duress in the main. I like the idea of Turn 1 Discard, Turn 2 Discard/Kill, Turn 3 Drop Reckoner or Brimaz. Having the ability to see my opponents hand seems very key to me leading up to my Turn 3 play and decision. So I wanted to create 5 1 cost Discard Effect slots, I added the Sin Collector as an additional bonus. I used to run 2 or 3 Sin Collectors, but again because I really want Brimaz/Reckoner on Turn 3, I dropped the 2 extra Sin Collector for earlier discard. Pulling Verdict from my opponent or removal spells from my opponent and dropping Brimaz on Turn 3 has created blowout scenarios.
9 SCRY Lands - I was running 8, then we got Temple of Malice from BotG, so I upped the count to 10. However; because I really want to be active in the first 3 turns, I lowered the number down to 9. So far this has been fine, I still sometimes have a slow go of it in the first 3 turns, but I think it's acceptable. there are times where it isn't a bother at all. Especially when you don't get many of your SCRY lands early and you can be very active. I've also changed up how I play SCRY lands. If I have the lands that don't come in untapped, I generally play those in the first 2 turns, then play the SCRY lands later on, giving me more reach when the deck starts to usually stall out and struggle.
Sideboard:
The sideboard is really still under constructions...
Lifebane Zombie - I know I want some number of these in there. With GR and GW so popular right now, I think Lifebane Zombie puts in a lot of work VS those decks.
Revoke Existence - This seems like a no brainer auto include... Underworld Connections, Whip/Trident, Enchantment Creatures, GODs... all of those types of cards were heavily played and there's even been an uptick on even more of these cards.
Rakdos's Return - I really like what this can do against control... early to late game, doesn't matter. If you are able to apply some early pressure with creatures early, using the discard to brute force RR to win seems like a plan. Or slow play, brute force a RR around turn 5 or 6, then start dropping bombs. Either way seems like a solid plan.
Boros Charm - I really like having these too... VS Verdict
Sin Collector - This is a no brainer VS Control... It's a creature, it's a EXILE Sorcery/Instant, tag Verdicts and Revelations.
Merciless Eviction - I would like to find room for 2, but maybe 1 is enough. I like this VS Devotion decks. Especially Black Devotion that employs Connections/Whips.
Doom Blade - Just Non Black aggro backup.
I have never been a fan of sb's are 1 ofs for decks that don't have consistent card draw. I read your comments on Erebus, but he is only a 2 of. I would suggest trying to keep the sb to 3 and 4 ofs to give yourself the best chances at seeing them. Here is where i would start, after looking at the deck.
3 Lifebane Zombies
2 Revoke Existance
3 Sin collector
3 Doomblade
1 BBoV
3 Dark betrayal
Just a thought. Good Luck with it on game day.
Personally I would go up one Blood Baron ( good card is good ) and relegate one Erabos to the side. Baron seems better against the field while Erabos has specific MU's where he's really good in.
I'm not really that sure on Reckoner though. Boros Reckoner seems to once again be a card that hedges you against certain MU's but removal+whip=Bromaz covers that angle already. Reckoner just seems sub par against everything not GR Monsters/Wx/Rx aggro so I guess it depends which is more prevalent in your local scene.
Don't care much for the Duress though, although your reasoning behind it is sound. I could definitely see it turning into a Devour Flesh for instance, just to cover the slower nature of your mana base.
Sideboard wise you seem pretty solid, though I think that you're probably too slow to use Boros Charm as effectively as a more aggressive deck would and your list doesn't deem like it lends itself to overextending anyway.
Other than that good luck.
I wouldn't call it "Resolved", but I feel like the deck with Brimaz and Reckoner offers up some early pressure that can either win on it's own, or cause enough trouble for my opponents to help me get through to other threats in the deck.
Every since I started play testing with Brimaz atleast, it just feels like the deck has gotten smoother and I don't feel like I'm having the "Half and Half" issue as much.
So I don't know if you can call that "Resolved", but it's effective none the less.
Very good point! I appreciate it!
With Doom Blade, I have 1 in the mainboard, so I figured 2 in the side as Non Black Aggro insurance should be ok. So I still think 2 is fine for that card...
I do like the Dark Betrayals too actually!
Although I really like Merciless Eviction, I'm afraid you nailed it with the 1 of's in the sideboard. Although Erebos is a decent dig draw engine if the game starts to stall out, it's still not that effective to dig out 1 of's, greatly agree!
I really appreciate the constructive advice, definitely great suggestions that I've already made those adjustments.
You know, I don't have a problem with this suggestion at all...
Everytime I look at the list and play test it, the 2nd Erebos just looks awkward in the mainboard.
I really like Erebos a lot, but it's awkward playing 2 I think in the main.
I toyed with 1 Erebos and 1 Connections, but I really don't like Connections for what I'm trying to do.
1 Connections still may not be that bad though... It's something I'll have to consider.
For now though, I actually like adding something more to the Threat Density instead.
-1 Erebos
+1 Baron
DONE!
I admit, Reckoner has lost a bit of it's shine with the removal that's out there now...
But that's sort of the point...
Pairing Reckoner and Brimaz together I think is going to make Reckoner recapture some of that Glory.
That may sound silly, but Reckoner still is a mean card, and my shop is heavy aggro decks. Mostly GR and GW/Naya, so I think with that in mind, Reckoner still cleans that up.
GM1 VS Control, Reckoner has a big enough body that it can be a problem if he's not answered, and if they're answering Reckoner while I'm forcing my opponents to discard other removal, that paves the way for Brimaz, Baron, Obzedat to clean up.
I like what Reckoner is doing right now and with my meta, so I think I'll leave him alone.
What I have considered is 3 Main Board Reckoner and having the 4th in the Side.
I just feel like that is kinda silly looking though, but it's possible...
I agree, it does seem strange, but I like it for what it's doing FOR NOW.
When I actually start really working in some serious play testing next week, this is a slot I'm keeping a close eye on.
How often does it actually hit what I want it to hit (Removal)?
How often do I wish it was a Kill Card?
Would I rather just add more to the Threat Density of the deck instead?
Those will be questions I will keep in the forefront as I'm testing it...
Thanks, I thought the sideboard was pretty decent although I said it was under construction, there's always room for improvement.
And Civil made a great point with his SB suggestions...
So I'll def re-examine it a bit, but for the most part I think I'm on the right track.
I do greatly appreciate constructive feedback from you guys!
This is why I participate in these forums, not for the personal jabs but because I dig into magic so much that I can't be bugging my friends all hours of the night, so I relegate myself to using Forums to get my fix on. LOL
You 2 are very active in a lot of these threads, when you're giving constructive advice without the little jabs, I really work hard to listen and take it seriously as I do trust your advice.
I know I'm not on y'alls level, but I still enjoy trying.
Little worried about playing BWR on Born of the Gods GameDay; since I played BWR on Theros GameDay and got completely embarrassed with the "Half and Half" thing and mana screw and mulligans all day.
However; I got my playset of Brimaz and really looking to put him to good use.
I've built 3 Test Decks for myself:
BWR Midrange
BW/r Midrange
BW Midrange
I've also built a Black Aggro deck for my Brother who is going to attend his first event for GameDay himself. He's learning how to play magic... (Close to the one that placed 4th in the Super Sunday Series)
We'll see what I end up with for GameDay... It still might be a toss up...
Current List:
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Sin Collector
Spells: 18
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Dreabore
2 Doom Blade
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Warleader's Helix
1 Revoke Existence
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Malice
4 Plains
2 Mountain
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Sin Collector
1 Duress
2 Revoke Existence
2 Doom Blade
3 Reckoner
3 Blood Baron
3 Brimaz
3 Alms Beast
2 Stormbreath
2 Aurelia Warleader
3 Rakdos Keyrunes
3 Thoughtsieze
3 Dreadbore
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Warleader Helix
2 Mizzium
26 lands.
First round was a Minotaur deck. First game he missed one more swamp to combo. Second he got me down to 2 life.
Second rounds was a Boros reckoner infinite life gain deck. He didn't land the combo so 2-0.
Third was Gruul Monsters. Alms worked him first round. Sideboard I dropped all my Barons, helix and keyrunes for RR, Slaughtergames, and lifebane. Didn't draw into any and lost the next 2 games. Domri wrecks my Stormbreath and He played 6 land Reaper which I could not do anything about.
Fourth game was mono black. Lost first game due to not thoughtseizing the game ending pack rat. Sideboarded in duress and slaughtergames. Second game land flood for him. 3rd game he answered all my barons and reckoners/brimaz with devour and mizzium. Alms beast took him down though.
Pretty happy with Alms beast. Brizmas usually gets dealt with right away in most of my games. I have nothing to protect him, such as brave the elements or god's willing. I might be taking him out for " ? " haven't thought of anything yet. Keyrunes are great when i get them. It is conditional 3rd drop. Depending on whether they are playing lots of tap/scry lands as well or dropping their 1-3 drops.
Aurelia didn't show up at all.
thoughts ? Suggestions ? Thanks.
Been working on BWR for a very long time, since even before Theros spoiled...
However; I think I finally have a solid list.
I finished tonight 3 and 1, my only loss was to Mono Green God Hand in GM3.
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Boros Reckoner
Spells: 17
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Dreadbore
1 Doom Blade
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Revoke Existence
4 Underworld Connections
Lands: 26
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Malice
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Sin Collector
3 Doom Blade
2 Duress
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Revoke Existence
WIN 2-0 : RND 1 : VS GW Midrange
There was no match here, Boros Reckoner/Brimaz really shined here. To go along with the removal and Overloaded Mortars.
WIN 2-0 : RND 2 : VS Izzet Spellheart Burn
Very interesting deck, good buddy of mine, but to be honest there wasn't much of a match here either. Boros Reckoner, Brimaz, Helix, Baron all put in major work unhindered.
LOSS 2-1 : RND 3 : VS Mono Green Ramp
Game 1 it was pretty good battle, but he edged me out. To be fair, I really believe I kept a bad hand with little removal and just ran out of steam.
Game 2 I brought in the extra Doom Blades and Lifebane Zombies and took out Brimaz and Connections. Lifebane Zombie + Thoughtseize put in major work.
Game 3 he got a god hand... Turn 1 he drops Mystic, Turn 2 he drops Nykthos, taps his Green + Mystic and plays 2 Burning Trees, then taps Nykthos for 5 and drops Arbor Colossus; all on TURN 2!!!! Then on Turn 3, he does the Monstrous and has a 9/9 hitting me. Turn 4 he then drops 2 Reverent Hunters each were about 8/8 or 9/9 or something. I didn't stand a chance, it was pretty insane...
WIN 2-1 : RND 4 : VS BW Humans Aggro
Game 1 I made a play mistake that cost me the game, then I rebounded to take the next 2 games. Blood Baron, Reckoner were key.
I was very very pleased with how the deck showed out the day before GameDay.
The thing is though, the THEROS GameDay list that I took back a while ago did the same thing. Dominated FNM, and then died a horrible death on GameDay. LOL
Although this is a very very different deck, can't help but see a comparison, but I think I am still ok.
I made a few MINOR modifications to my list though, strictly to the sideboard.
3 Doom Blade
1 Ultimate Price
4 Sin Collector
2 Duress
1 Revoke Existence
Throughout the night I tried to take mental notes on a bunch of things.
VS the Izzet Deck I brought in my control package since they run lots of Instants/Sorceries, the Control Package is +4 Sin Collector and +2 Duress. That proved to be very very good!
VS Mono Green Ramp, although he got his God Hand and had a 6/6 on Turn 2 and then a 9/9 on Turn 3, all of that would of been moot if I had a Doom Blade in hand. Even an Ultimate Price... I decided my sideboard needed another option giving me total of 5 2 Cost Instant Speed removal spells VS Green Decks. GM2's VS them I will now have 4 Lifebanes + 4 Doom Blades + 1 Ultimate Price to go along with 2 Downfalls and 3 Dreadbores. I feel like that should give me a better matchup even if they draw their god hand.
I didn't feel I needed Revoke Existence, I walked around the tables and I didn't think that Revoke really needs to be a 3 in the 75. I think 2 maybe plenty...
4 Thoughtseize
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
2 Doomblade
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Read the Bones
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Underworld Connections
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Rakdo's Returns
1 Whip of Erebos
CREATURES
4 Desecration Demon
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Triumph
3 Mountains
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rakdos's Returns
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Bile Blight
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Skullcrack
Here is my current list. I committed more to control and less to midrange. The B/R Control primer kicked me over here, so I'm bringing the list here Thoughts?
I am not liking Boros Reckoner at all in the current meta game. And I think that Obzedate is better than Blood Baron currently as well. Other than that I like the list. How is chained to the rocks for you? Are you having any issues finding a mountain on time with 11 actual mountains?
4 pack rat
4 boros reckoner
4 desecration demon
2 exava, rakdos blood witch
4 dreadbore
4 chained to the rocks
2 devour flesh
4 chandra, pyromaster
2 rakdos's return
4 mutavault
4 mountain
4 temple of silence
2 temple of malice
2 revoke existence
2 doom blade
4 thoughtseize
3 gift of orzhova
4 assemble the legion
The all stars have been pack rats (please don't let people fool you into thinking bile blight means anything), chained to the rocks, spike jester, gift of orzhova and chandra in that order.
Pack rat: I think this needs no explanation.
Chained to the Rocks: Ari Lax wrote an article breaking down standard a while ago and he mentioned that removal was too conditional or expensive to gain tempo, chained to the rocks is roughly unconditional, cheap removal, that hits active gods and puts you way ahead on tempo given I'm running nothing, but the most efficient creatures.
Spike jester: Even against decks where he gets walled he can put out massive damage before that point. He's almost unfair against control and punishes black for trying to jam underworld connections with no defense. Between this guy and pack rat, your opponents can't stumble or they will end up very behind. Also he can out pace pack rats, if you have any removal.
Gift of orzhova: This card just blows out removal light decks. Mono blue, hexproof, aggro, whatever. They all just kinda get stomped.
Chandra: Its a card advantage engine that has other utilities. She carried several grindy games by getting me through my deck faster and helped me close them out by getting attackers through. I'm not sure I can argue she's better than UWC, but double black on 3 is pretty rough for this mana base so its fine with me. Main thing I learned was her +1 is often very useful.
Things I'd like to improve: I feel it would be nice to not have the 4 spot so crowed and to have more 3 drops, but I don't think there's any the are good enough aside from rakdos keyrune. Also the mana can get sketchy, mostly with casting d demon and sometimes chained to the rocks.
Please remember to use deck tags. Thanks. -rujasu
Btw, ended up dropping this deck again. It was doing fine, but I realized not being able to play thoughtseize on turn 1 was pretty huge. Chained to the rocks and assemble are amazing cards to have access to, but they are not worth thoughtsize I don't think. So I'm back in black/red.