[Primer] Jund Midrange

  • #1
    RBGJund MidrangeRBG
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    I will keep this primer updated as long as the Standard Tournaments and testing keep going.

    RBGIntroductionRBG

    Jund got it's name after the RBG shard of Alara. This color combination offers some of the greatest utility and almost all the removal avaible in Standard. Backed up with ramp, some of the most efficient fatties, disruption, and two of the best planeswalkers in Standard, as well as nice SB options that can turn the deck into highly deffensive or aggresive in G2 and 3, Jund is a tough contender for the next season.

    RBGWhy play Jund?RBG
    Jund is an extreme versatile deck, with a bunch of highly efficient cards. It has utility, disruption, removal, ramp, sweepers, card advantage, resilience and planeswalkers. With it's many sideboard options, initially tough matchups for Jund can become a cake walk and vice versa: it's a transformative sideboard that can turn the deck into highly offensive or highly defensive. If you like versatility and adaptation, this is your deck.

    RBGJund post-rotationRBG
    Ignoring the hard hit to the manabase with the checklands leavings, Jund lost some important things with rotation. Farseek is no longer Standard legal, and both Thragtusk and Huntmaster of the Fells are gone, which means we don't have our 3-for-1 creatures, which were all a huge asset to the deck. Olivia Voldaren, our best creature, is also rotating, and even Kessig Wolf's Run and Vampire Nighthawk go out. What can we possibly do to replace this?

    Well, we now have Sylvan Caryatid. It's no farseek, but it has hexproof and can block early aggro onslaughts like Burning-Tree Emissary, Ash Zealot or Voice of Resurgence. We also have huge fatties like Reaper of the Wild, which is extremely resilient and has built in value, and Underworld Cerberus, which has a huge body and packs recursion an value. We also have new toys in the form of Thoughtseize, Xenagos, the Reveler and Magma Jet. We even get a board wipe in the form of Anger of the Gods, and a pseudo-Jitte in Bow of Nylea. Packing this with previous cards from RTR block and M14 should more than make up for the lost things, and now thanks to Read the Bones, Underworld Connections and the scry in Temple of Abandon, Reaper of the Wild and Magma Jet, we can dig a lot for the things we need.

    RBGCard choicesRBG
    Coming soon.

    RBGMatchupsRBG
    Coming soon.

    Example decklist:

    Zephyr Scarlet's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands (23)
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Blood Crypt
    3 Temple of Abandon
    3 Golgari Guildgate
    2 Rakdos Guildgate
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest

    Planeswalkers (4)
    2 Vraska the Unseen
    2 Xenagos, the Reveler

    Artifacts (2)
    2 Rakdos Keyrune

    Creatures (16)
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    4 Reaper of the Wild
    4 Desecration Demon
    2 Underworld Cerberus

    Other Spells (16)
    3 Anger of the Gods
    2 Mizzium Mortars
    3 Dreadbore
    2 Primeval Bounty
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Read the Bones


    Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig

    On Theros's power level:
    Quote from Tackman »
    It just doesn't feel like the decks in the RTR/THS Standard are unique and would be impossible in another Standard format, they look more like stronger limited decks than anything else...
  • #2
    I like the list but I'm not certain about anger of the gods (at least maindeck) . Sure it is awesome against aggro, but how much aggro is to expect in this standard season? And the big downside is that it kills your own mana dudes, which shine in being resistant against most of the removal. You could increase the mizzium mortars count to 4 instead, reaching 6 mana shouldnt be a big issue with xenagos, the manadorks and enough lands.
    Also I'm not sure about the keyrunes. Maybe exchange them with Mutavault ? You're currently running "only" 23 lands, I guess having 25 and 2 manlands wouldn't hurt.
    Or just replace them with elvish mystic .
    And I would propably run Hero's Downfall over dreadbore. The instant speed matters and the 1 cmc more shouldn't be too hard to handle (murder was used as removal in the past jund standard with also 3 cmc).
    And I kind of miss Whip of Erebos in your 75, its good against aggro and midrange and especially in midrange, getting back big creatures hasted seems like a good thing.

    Just my 2 cents
    Last edited by solarsion: 9/19/2013 8:20:10 AM
  • #3
    Just wondering what your evaluation of whip of erebos is? I feel like it would give late game pressure. Nonbo with cerberus, and demon isnt great with it though. I like the planeswalkers available, but i dont believe that this deck takes the best advantage of xenagos, domri would probably be a better choice? Im not 100% sure about that. I dont like the lack of available ramp, or what its even doing for you, but its always been a jund staple except for when BBE was around.

    Have to agree with the anger of the gods sentiment. You dont want it alongside caryatid, and it also hurts any other creature ramp you would want to run.
  • #4
    Needs more instant speed removal?

    At least 2 (1 at the least) Abrupt Decay

    edit: What about the 1BB Destory creature or planeswalker?

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  • #5
    First of all this is a rough sketch, as I think there can't be a definite list till the meta settles.

    About Anger of the Gods, it's biased. I have put 3 MB because my meta is aggro heavy, so there they are. About instant speed removal, I prefer Doom Blade, or even Putrefy over the gloryfied murder (Putrefy evades regenerate and destroys an artifact which is kinda relevant now with the weapons). I think the right way to go is with CA, basically scry, so Read the Bones, Magma Jet and Reaper of the Wilds, alongside scrylands (when the cycle is complete) are the way to go. Xenagos does a bit more here: I don't want him to ramp 6 mana for +1, but rather for that extra 1 or 2 mana and the token dudes. Primeval bounty is a neat wincon, and I'm not all sold on whip, I think I will test Bow first. About Elvish Mystic, since it's 3-color, I think I'd just go with Caryatid, as it stops bears and can't be burnt away. Keyrune I don't know, but so far it's a great defense line as well as more ramp, and you can close a game on it's back.

    Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig

    On Theros's power level:
    Quote from Tackman »
    It just doesn't feel like the decks in the RTR/THS Standard are unique and would be impossible in another Standard format, they look more like stronger limited decks than anything else...
  • #6
    Try this on:

    Lauphiette Kincey's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    3 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Polukranos
    4 Polis Crusher
    3 Master of Cruelties(can be any number of things)

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Rakdos's Return
    1 Hammer of Purphuros
    1 Whip of Erebros
    2 Xenagos, the Revealer

    2 Dreadbore
    1 Hero's Downfall
    1 Putrefy
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Mizzium Mortar
    1 Rakdos Keyrune

    4 Temple of Abandon
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Blood Crypt
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    2 Rakdos Guildgate
    2 Golgari Guildgate
    2 Forest
    2 Swamp
    1 Mountain



    I like polis crusher since it gives you an out to burning earths, and can destroy problematic enchantments like detention sphere and chained to rocks. Also, trample.

    Reaper of the wilds comes with lots of benefits though and will probably make it's way back into the list somewhere since 5 toughness dodges mortars and black dodges doom blade(along with hexproof dodging everything).
    Quote from zemanjaski
    Red is the thinking man's colour.

    LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.

    Quote from photodyer
    I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
    Quote from redthirst
    Wisdom, thy name is Kincey.
  • #7
    This is the list im working on:

    Rhinne's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands (24)
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Blood Crypt
    4 Temple of Abandon
    1 Golgari Guildgate
    5 Swamp
    2 Forest

    Planeswalkers (3)
    3 Chandra, Pyromaster

    Creatures (16)
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    4 Reaper of the Wild
    4 Desecration Demon
    2 Underworld Cerberus
    2 Stormbreath Dragon

    Other Spells (17)
    2 Anger of the Gods
    3 Mizzium Mortars
    3 Hero´s Downfall
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Putrefy
    2 Rakdos Return




    Chandra has been working really well for me, i started with 2 vraskas and 2 chandras, and quickly noticed vraska was pretty bad. Scratch that, she was terribly bad.
    While chandra on the other hand was a constant card advantage engine, and removal when it was possible.
    The rakdos retuns have won me many games, so perhaps a 3rd wouldnt be bad, and while i liked the angers so far, im torn on adding more.
    they dont go well with the sylvans, and they arent enough to kill most problem creatures, blood baron being the main offender.
    Thats the only reason im running 3 mizzium mortars, started with 1 and i noticed i was giving too many games that that guy, then went up to 2, and eventually 3.

    Toughts?
    Last edited by Rhinne: 9/19/2013 7:56:06 PM
  • #8
    So ive been test driving this for the last few days. Im still in the process of final tweaks, but i figured i'd post my results.

    Jund MidrangeMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands 24
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Blood Crypt
    4 Temple of Abandon
    5 Forest
    3 Swamp

    Creatures 18
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    3 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Desecration Demon
    4 Reaper of the Wilds
    4 Kalonian Hydra

    Enchantments 2
    2 Primeval Bounty
    2 Whip of Erebos

    Instants 7
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Putrefy
    2 Hero's Downfall
    1 Doom blade

    Sorceries 4
    2 Mizzium Mortars
    2 Rakdos's Return



    I like how diverse the deck is once again. I feel like this list has no unwinnable matchups, and our cards do synergize a little more than before. Granted we lost overall creature power, and lost alot in terms of CA generators and mostly mana dumps. Despite all that, I think Jund is still at a acceptable level.

    SB still needs the most tweaking, and im really torn on Primeval Bounty. Downsides are obvious that it doesnt do anything the turn it hits play 99.9% of the time, but if left unchecked creates an insane impact. In play testing ive found it to be game ending, or the turn it hit was just a turn too late. Alot of people complain of its cost, but between carytids ramping us, and xenagos its alot easier than people might think. The other weakness is it shines in a deck that has card draw, and frankly i cant squeeze it in.

    The other thing is not having Thoughtseize MB. Ive done it both ways, put RR to the side and MD thoughtseize, but im really undecided there.

    Aggro matchups are not that rough if you know how to muligan. Game 2 its even better with anger of the gods, that card is so back breaking. I get giddy when i have one in hand against boros, or white weenie.

    Control isnt nearly as bad as it was pre rotation. Game 1 can be kind of rough, but if you heed to resolve a reaper, and keep mana open she's just game winning by herself. Xenagos is the all star in those matchups as well. Once you get access to your SB, you become controls worst possible nightmare. Your threats, and card disruption is enough to make then rage quit ( i get alot of those ).

    Kalonian Hydra stands on his own. I believe he's the most powerful creature in standard. he's a 2 turn clock most of the time, and if you resolve two back to back its just the game against any non verdict deck.
  • #9
    Cards Id Like to talk about, Note before i say anything, i haven't had a chance to test at all. my current schedule doesn't permit me to.

    Chandra: We need the CA. This deck lost a lot of power, in forms of creatures, and PW. we need a new CA engine, since we don't have Garruk, and i think she might be our walker.

    Removal of Reaper of the Wilds: I myself don't see this. AT all. I feel hyper unexcited for this card. maybe im missing something. doesn't instant speed removal still kill her?

    Underworld Cerberus: I don't think this card is good. I feel especially with a low creature count, this card isn't up to par. yes the advantage is nice, but how nice is it, if we only get back 1-2 creatures, as we have low counts.

    Mistcutter Hydra: Our new Mana dump? gives us something to do lategame, and ends games out of no where.

    Stormbreath Dragon: Read Above
  • #10
    Quote from Anton
    Cards Id Like to talk about, Note before i say anything, i haven't had a chance to test at all. my current schedule doesn't permit me to.

    Chandra: We need the CA. This deck lost a lot of power, in forms of creatures, and PW. we need a new CA engine, since we don't have Garruk, and i think she might be our walker.

    Removal of Reaper of the Wilds: I myself don't see this. AT all. I feel hyper unexcited for this card. maybe im missing something. doesn't instant speed removal still kill her?

    Underworld Cerberus: I don't think this card is good. I feel especially with a low creature count, this card isn't up to par. yes the advantage is nice, but how nice is it, if we only get back 1-2 creatures, as we have low counts.

    Mistcutter Hydra: Our new Mana dump? gives us something to do lategame, and ends games out of no where.

    Stormbreath Dragon: Read Above



    The list could probably run both Xenagos and chandra, but i dont think she is worth running as the sole walker. The reason Garruk could was because he was such an amazing walker. He provided either huge value, or he could be a card draw. Now they kind of broke him into 2 walkers to i guess provide better balance.

    Reaper is a real deal. The scry is alot of smoothing thats highly needed. The other big boons is DT, as long as its not some random flyier she can literally be the answer to some major threat on the board, making them not attack in risk of losing it. Her roughness is really good because it keeps her favorable in blocking most other 4 drops without trading, and her 4 power keeps her out of selesnya charm range. Sheis auto immune to doom blade, and for everything else leave 1G open and give her hexproof in response to anything they do. For control matchups lolazoriuscharmgodihateyousoverymuch.

    For a mana dump stormbreath is good, mistcutter no.. Savageborn Hydra is more of a candidate
  • #11
    see i didnt know hexproof worked in such a fashion. After reading it, i assumed, once it was targeted by the spell, you couldnt respond with hexproof, as it was already targeted.

    The reason i like mistcutter better, is because it has protection from blue in those control mirrors (dat azorius charm) and haste, meaning you can sneak in those last few points of damage out of no where.
  • #12
    I think the biggest thing to decide is whether or not you want to be the kind of deck that will leverage Anger of the Gods against aggro MD or not. The previous iteration of Jund wanted farseek to mana fix and to hit Huntmaster on 3 as otherwise there really was no other accelerated creature you wanted to slam at that point. With the CA engine of a 4 drop gone I think we're going to want to slow down our game plan a bit and properly leverage Anger in the matchups where it's going to be important. Been playing with numbers and testing and I've come to this version that I like a lot, it has some obvious CA pieces to push itself past the midrange game, some powerful finishers and creatures able to leverage themselves against Anger and ways to brickwall Blood Baron without relying on Mortars.

    Cainage's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Blood Crypt
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Temple of Abandon
    3 Forest
    2 Mountain
    4 Swamp

    Instant
    2 Shock
    3 Hero's Downfall
    2 Abrupt Decay

    Sorcery
    4 Anger of the Gods
    1 Dreadbore
    2 Rakdos's Return

    Creature
    3 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Desecration Demon
    4 Polukranos, World Eater
    4 Reaper of the Wilds
    2 Stormbreath Dragon

    Enchantment
    2 Whip of Erebos
    2 Primeval Bounty




    Looking at the numbers feels solid to me personally, we have mana dumps, efficient compact threats that can also brick wall aggro and avoids mortars for the most part (Ooze and Dragon can die to it, but at that point it isn't quite as important to 100% ensure all of our threats live against it.) Primeval Bounty, Whip and Rakdos's Return take over the mid-late game and our removal package gets us to our threats. The Sideboard currently has 3 major decks in mind; GW, Esper and BWR as I think 4 Anger main board more then hedges our bets against the 4th player in my mind, mono red. Thinking the green exile enchantment / artifact might be worth more then some of the other cards in the sideboard for the red god, but otherwise the numbers seem fine.

    As I test more and feel more comfortable with the deck changes I'll likely smooth things out and change some minor numbers as the metagame forms, but I like these numbers a lot and really haven't liked Caryatid in my testing when we can take advantage of Anger against the decks Caryatid's blocking would be relevant.
    Last edited by Cainage: 9/20/2013 1:05:32 PM
  • #13
    On the topic of four drops which I'm starting:

    Polis Crusher: Worst, but is a maindeckable answer to all non-god enchantments including burning earth and has trample.

    Reaper of the wilds: it's the aetherling of midrange decks and mushes control. MUSH. **** does all the things.

    Polukranos: Slightly more utility then the other 4 drops vs. creature decks and says **** blood baron.

    Desecration Demon: Gets better the more removal you have. Not burnable ever. Fastest clock. Misses disciple of bolas. I don't like it because it seems SO BAD when you're behind.

    Note: I'm probably completely wrong and desecration demon and admit that I just don't like the card. I'm completely open to being horribly wrong about the card and have no fault whatsoever with it in other peoples lists assuming there deck is built well.
    Last edited by Lauphiette Kincey: 9/20/2013 8:16:54 PM
    Quote from zemanjaski
    Red is the thinking man's colour.

    LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.

    Quote from photodyer
    I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
    Quote from redthirst
    Wisdom, thy name is Kincey.
  • #14
    Desecration Demon is specially good after an Anger of the Gods, even moreso if you have removal in hand. You can simply drop a second creature and start attacking with it if your opponent chooses to simply sac their turn drop to tap demon, and attack with both if he or she doesn't. Heck, you can even use your targeted removal if they do multiple drops (which means they're cheaper and weaker than our big beaters), or even another Anger with Demon in table if needed be. About CA, I think this is a must

    Card DrawMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    2 Underworld Connections
    3 Read the Bones



    Since these hurt us pretty badly now that we're depending in shocks, I think that 2-3 Primeval Bounty and 2 Oozes (which are MB hate against reanimator, I think It'll be a huge contender this season too, and they're not dead in other matchups since they gain life and grow big) are needed for lifegain. Primeval Bounty is a card that I like very much. First of all, it completely shuts down aggro. Every land drop we make negates one of their burn effects or attacks that have connected. It turns dead late-game draws like a Caryatid into a 3/3 token. It's very difficult for control to handle, and it can be ramped as soon as T4-5. His second ability (putting +1/+1 counters) is the least relevant of all but it can make our clocks faster.

    About Whip, I strongly prefer Bow of Nylea. Whip needs creatures for us to gain life, while bow has a lot more utility, and even costs 1 mana less. Can kill or finish some nasty fliers, can pump our dudes, can give us 3 life EOT and even gets our graveyard cards back to the deck, which will be relevant if there is some sort of mill deck. On top of it, our already huge creatures become impossible to trade profitably with thanks to deathtouch. Whip only offers an one-shot reanimate effect that is not so good with a demon.

    We all can agree that Stormbreath Dragon must be in the deck as a 2-3 of. It can't be azorius charmed / d-sphere'd, kills Blood Baron of Vizkopa, laughs at Chained to the Rocks, blocks Angel of Serenity, Ashen Rider (which I think it will be a huge contender in Junk Reanimator) and Obzedat, Ghost Council 24/7. It is also a mana sink that we can reach pretty fast and that helps us recover if UWx casts a huge Revelation. As someone said, Mistcutter Hydra can be run, but in the board, for more hate against blue decks.

    Polukranos is actually a nice wrath effect, but I'm afraid that the monstruous ability can't be activated that much to be relevant even with ramp. Dat double X cost. But I haven't tested much with it, so LK, please post your results. Deadbridge Goliath was also a 5/5 for 4 mana and never saw play, so sorry if I am a bit skeptikal.

    About planeswalkers, I absolutely dislike Pyromaster. With all the scry effects on board and Underworld Connections, I think her 0 is something irrelevant, and the +1 isn't strong enough since it only pings random things like Lifebane Zombie which won't be played against us, or some Elvish Mystich which by that turn has already done his job. Xenagos as I said is a must, even if he ramps only for something between 1 and 3, he still ramps. He grows exponentially better by puking satyrs, which help us build defense, and alongside Primeval Bounty, we can keep a steady stream of tokens from two sources that control gets problem dealing with. Vraska is one that I really like as a 2-of. At the very worst, she's a 5 mana vindicate. She enters with 5 loyalty, and if she doesn't need to blow a permanent that turn she can simply +1 and trade with normally two cards from the opponent (two creatures, creature and burn), and that's if we have absolutely nothing to protect her, or risk a -7 and getting in for the kill with the assassins. The assassins are also great vs Control, and her vindicate ability, besides from being repetitive, is a MB answer vs MB Burning Earth / Assemble the Legion.

    Now that this is settled and can serve as a core, the really problematic part is fitting the numbers of removal and disruption. For removal, we have these options:

    - Doom Blade: Best instant speed removal, dead against Black creatures like enemy Reapers, Desecration Demons or Lifebane Zombies
    - Putrefy: Catch all removal. Probably 1-2 of, specially with the ability to hit Lothlet Troll in the Junk matchup and the Gods weapons.
    - Mizzium Mortars: Best sorcery speed removal. 4 damage is a lot, and kills Loxodon Smiter, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and enemy Stormbreath Dragon. Also doubles its utility as a one-sided wrath lategame, so they're at least 2-of.
    - Lightning Strike: Replacement of Searing Spear. If you are in a heavy aggro meta that doesn't run many big dudes, you like hitting black too and the versatility of aiming to the face, run this over doom blade.
    - Shock: 1 mana removal, Tragic Slip replacement. Since there aren't that many 1-drops like dorks (save elvish mystic) or Champion of the Parish now, I think this can be cut
    - Magma Jet: Probably the second best instant speed removal. Kills relevant things like Ash Zealot, Voice of Resurgence, Scavenging Ooze in response of buffing, Burning-Tree Emissary, Firedrinker Satyr while doing 2 to the face, Rakdos Cackler, Young Pyromancer, and also has scry 2. Jund is the land of CA and the 2-for-1's and if this isn't, I don't know what is.
    - Dreadbore: Competes with Mortars as best sorcery speed removal. This is more color intensive and can't wrath lategame, but kills unconditionally and nails planeswalkers too.
    - Hero's Demise: Dreadbore for more mana. Sincerely, if Murder was never played, I don't think this will, especially if he have a spell that does EXACTLY the same but for 1 mana less. And no, it's not "slower" since it actually comes a turn before.
    - Abrupt Decay: Instant speed removal that kills Reckoner, Smiter, Domri, D-Sphere, Chained to Rocks, Voice, tokens, and all sorts of problematic 3-drops. However I think in the current big midrange meta it will be too narrow.

    About disruption, we have:
    - Thoughtseize: Best hand disruption, but alongside shocks, Read the Bones, and Underworld connections, hurts a lot.
    - Rakdos Return: Finisher and Sphinx's Revelation counter, casting this can just seal the deal.
    - Sire of Insanity: This card deserves consideration. It's repeated Rakdos Return on a stick, and if it resolves, it's impossible to answer without a miraculous topdeck. Maybe 1 of, split with RR.
    - Duress: Thoughtseizes 5-8, probably SB material.
    - Lifebane Zombie: Can go in MB or SB depending on what you expect in your meta. It's an evasive 3-drop that can also take out two cards by itself: one from the hand and another trading.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Zephyr Scarlet: 9/22/2013 5:23:37 AM

    Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig

    On Theros's power level:
    Quote from Tackman »
    It just doesn't feel like the decks in the RTR/THS Standard are unique and would be impossible in another Standard format, they look more like stronger limited decks than anything else...
  • #15
    Hey guys I've been working on a Jund midrange list and so far its been testing pretty good. Let me know what you think!

    Naya's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    3 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Polukranos, World Eater
    4 Stormbreath Dragon
    4 Sylvan Caryatid

    2 Xenagos, the Reveler
    1 Chandra, Pyromaster

    1 Rakdos Keyrune
    2 Anger of the Gods
    2 Dreadbore
    2 Mizzium Mortars
    2 Magma Jet
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Putrefy
    1 Hero's Downfall
    2 Rakdos's Return
    3 Read the Bones
    1 Primeval Bounty

    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Blood Crypt
    4 Temple of Abandon
    2 Rakdos Guildgate
    1 Golgari Guildgate
    2 Forest
    2 Mountain
    1 Swamp

    2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
    2 Underworld Connections
    3 Golgari Charm
    1 Anger of the Gods
    4 Duress
    1 Rakdos's Return
    2 Slaughter Games



    Some thoughts..

    I really like Anger of the Gods it just really sucks wiping out a few caryatids but sometimes its necessary when facing down a giant board.

    I'm tempted to play Thoughtseize but the deck already punishes you for playing 12 shocklands as well as 3 Read the Bones. Not having Thragtusk or Huntmaster makes 20 life seem like nothing. Duress and Rakdos's Return will do for now.

    Dragon is a house almost every time you play him. His monstrosity is relevant. Polukranos seems average, his montrosity cost is a little rough. I would like to play something else in the 4 drop slot maybe Desecration Demon but I've never really been a fan of the card and there aren't many other options.

    The Primeval Bounty could possibly be a 25th land or another kill spell. The planeswalkers feel at home in this deck.

    ~Signature by Rivenor @ Miraculous Recovery Studios~
  • #16

    Polukranos: Slightly more utility then the other 4 drops vs. creature decks and says **** blood baron.


    So from what I get from this, you plan to pay nine mana to kill their dude with monsterous?...sounds...a little extreme.

    In any case here is the deck I've been tweaking:

    Queklain's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (15)
    3x Scavenging Ooze
    3x Desecration Demon
    2x Lifebane Zombie
    3x Reaper of the Wilds
    4x Sylvan Caryatid

    Spells (16)
    4x Thoughtseize
    3x Aprupt Decay
    3x Magma Jet
    2x Mizzium Mortars
    2x Hero's Downfall
    2x Fury of the gods

    Enchantment (1)
    1x Deadbridge Chant

    Planeswalkers (3)
    2x Chandra, Pyromaster
    1x Vraska, the unseen

    Lands (25)
    2x Swamp
    3x Forest
    4x Temple of Abaddon
    3x Stomping ground
    4x Blood Crypt
    4x Overgrown Tomb
    2x Rakdos Guildgate
    3x Golgari Guildgate



    As you can see, the mainboard has a lot of variation in it's removal suite, which allows for favorable removal of pretty much anything, while also running heavy disruption in the form of Thoughtseize/Lifebane Zombie. The rational behind the former is to be able to keep pace with the miriad of different aggro/midrange variants that pop up, and the latter is to keep their hand manageable, and to make sure that control heavy decks are made to go at our pace by losing their most relevant card in hand.

    Epic Sig by: Myself
    Mindsplicer of [House Dimir]
    My Current EDH decks!

    Uril, the Miststalker WRG (Primary)

    (Secondary)
    Wrexial, the Risen Deep UB
    Olivia Voldaren BR
    Zedru, the Greathearted WUR
    Karador Ghost Chieftain WBG
  • #17
    No, he plans to block Blood Baron of Vizkopa with Polukranos, World Eater -- a green creature, and the only creature in the deck that is likely to grow large enough to handle that beast.

    The metagame is going to be the interesting take on this list. You need to have more creatures to put pressure on control and block. You probably need to run the Whip of Erebos for the life gain on your huge creatures so you can play multiple Thoughtseize and Read the Bones. You must play Read the Bones (I wish Jund had a card like that last season). You must run the proper ratio of removal for the metagame.

    Jund is going to be a metagame list. As such, it is really hard to play/build a list with no tournament results.

    Just thoughts, but...

    Thoughtseize
    Read the Bones
    Rakdos's Return
    Chandra, Pyromaster
    early blockers that don't die to Mizzium Mortars (good luck) and/or Magma Jet/Lightning Strike
    selecting the correct choice of 4cc creatures to run
    4 Sylvan Caryatid + some number of Keyrunes

    That's hard to fit into a single build, but it likely does not run Xenagos, the Reveler over Chandra, Pyromaster.

    When I make a list of cards like that, I wonder why I would ever run BRG over BRW just for Sylvan Caryatid.

    I would almost prefer to run a more aggressive list with more creatures, Thoughtseize, Read the Bones, and Domri Rade, but that is a very different list.
    Grin Namer of "Gainlands" --
    can't wait to actually use them!:D
  • #18
    Reaper of the Wild is strictly better than Polukranos IMO. For Blood Baron, he can be killed by Dragon, Mortars, and Thoughtseize / Lifebane Zombie. I still dislike Chandra, I'd rather blow permanents with Vraska or put tokens and ramp with Xenagos. Aside from Caryatid, G opens you Reaper of the Wilds, Vraska and Xenagos, Putrefy, Abrupt Decay, Bow of Nylea, Primeval Bounty and Ooze.

    Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig

    On Theros's power level:
    Quote from Tackman »
    It just doesn't feel like the decks in the RTR/THS Standard are unique and would be impossible in another Standard format, they look more like stronger limited decks than anything else...
  • #19
    Just some quick testing notes from earlier today at the prerelease:

    -We should be able to cut a land (unless Primeval Bounty works its way into lists), reasons being that we don't have nearly as much stuff to dump mana on anymore (Olivia, Wolf Run, and Bonfire all gone), and with so much filtering, we can grab pretty much whatever we need whenever we need it. I had some serious flooding problems.

    -Speaking of which, Reaper of the Wild is the best card in the deck, bar none. For pretty much every deck outside the mirror or Supreme Verdict, Reaper wreaks havoc. It's good T4 by itself. It's even better when you slam a T4 Desecration Demon and follow up with Reaper for a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

    -I, too, feel that Polukranos is a waste of a slot. It's not doing anything special that mandates a spot. We have quality, evasive beaters. We have much cheaper and better removal in Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars (instead of just trying to wall Blood Baron, why not just blow him up?).

    -Xenagos + a singleton Vraska > Chandra here. Chandra will not threaten an opponent by herself. Chandra doesn't really advance our position or board state at all. Chandra doesn't help us stabilize in a losing position, either. With all the scry running around, her 0 seems good, but it's sorcery speed, so instants don't even end up mattering that they're instants.

    -The deck needs 2 copies (maaaaaaaaybe 3) of Whip of Erebos. We need the lifegain, plain and simple. The fact that we get a second crack (har har) at our ridiculous creatures out of the yard is just a bonus. Especially if you're playing Thoughtseize in the main...which may be a huge mistake at least for the first few weeks, as RDW and GW lists are sure to be around in huge numbers. Starting the game at 16 and seeing nothing but Ash Zealots and Rakdos Cacklers in their opener is bad enough, but not having a backup plan to restore our life total since Huntmaster and Thragtusk are gone is even more suicidal than we want to be.

    -It's entirely possible that Sylvan Caryatid may not be a good choice in the end. It blocks the turn it comes down, and it ramps us into our fatties, but we have enough 2CC removal that more permanently solves our problems (Jet, Mortars, Decay, Doom Blade). We also have a solid 3CC slot too that we don't necessarily need to skip over (Putrefy, Hero's Downfall, Lifebane Zombie), or a backbreaking 4-5 combo that also gives us 27 life and 3-4 dudes for two cards that we absolutely need to get online ASAP anymore. My testing lists are currently not running it, but if there's a compelling argument as to why it's great (not just good), I'd love to hear it.
  • #20
    Quote from Saxman2112
    Just some quick testing notes from earlier today at the prerelease:

    -We should be able to cut a land (unless Primeval Bounty works its way into lists), reasons being that we don't have nearly as much stuff to dump mana on anymore (Olivia, Wolf Run, and Bonfire all gone), and with so much filtering, we can grab pretty much whatever we need whenever we need it. I had some serious flooding problems.


    Primeval Bounty should be as a 2-3 of. Against control, alongside with Xenagos (which is not that hard because all of the scrying), we cast a creature and spew 2 every turn, which helps us board a very strong board presence without even overextending. The next turn we just have 6 dudes and we force them to wrath and the tokens will keep coming again and again. Our land drops also gain us life, which is something very, very relevant now that Thragtusk and Huntmaster are out. The potential 3 life a turn for just dropping a land is such a great asset to the deck, and turns dead late-game draws like Sylvan Caryatid into Beasts and a wall.

    Quote from Saxman2112
    -Speaking of which, Reaper of the Wild is the best card in the deck, bar none. For pretty much every deck outside the mirror or Supreme Verdict, Reaper wreaks havoc. It's good T4 by itself. It's even better when you slam a T4 Desecration Demon and follow up with Reaper for a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.


    Totally agree. Reaper also blocks monstruous Fleecemane Lion
    24/7

    Quote from Saxman2112
    -I, too, feel that Polukranos is a waste of a slot. It's not doing anything special that mandates a spot. We have quality, evasive beaters. We have much cheaper and better removal in Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars (instead of just trying to wall Blood Baron, why not just blow him up?).


    Totally agree. To do the same damage divided as Flames of the Firebrand and get 3 counters you have to spend 8 whopping mana. I'm afraid the 4-spot is too crowded for him to get in.

    Quote from Saxman2112
    -Xenagos + a singleton Vraska > Chandra here. Chandra will not threaten an opponent by herself. Chandra doesn't really advance our position or board state at all. Chandra doesn't help us stabilize in a losing position, either. With all the scry running around, her 0 seems good, but it's sorcery speed, so instants don't even end up mattering that they're instants.


    I've said the same 2-3 times, so I agree. I play Vraska as a 2-of, though. She can blow up problematic permanents that we can't reach or kill a dude we can't with the removal we have in hand. Plus, she's a great rattlesnake and if she +1 the turn she enters, she is a 2-for-1, since there's no way to deal her 6 damage with just 1 dude / burn. Personal choice though, if someone has problem with slots, one may get cut. I personally am not going to do it.

    Quote from Saxman2112
    -The deck needs 2 copies (maaaaaaaaybe 3) of Whip of Erebos. We need the lifegain, plain and simple. The fact that we get a second crack (har har) at our ridiculous creatures out of the yard is just a bonus. Especially if you're playing Thoughtseize in the main...which may be a huge mistake at least for the first few weeks, as RDW and GW lists are sure to be around in huge numbers. Starting the game at 16 and seeing nothing but Ash Zealots and Rakdos Cacklers in their opener is bad enough, but not having a backup plan to restore our life total since Huntmaster and Thragtusk are gone is even more suicidal than we want to be.


    Disagree. I think Bow of Nylea is a superior option. It comes online a turn earlier, and for the whip for work we need creatures online. With Bow and Caryatid you can stall and block forever until you develop your board presence against super aggro decks like Gruul or RDW, since Caryatid blocks Ash Zealot, Burning-Tree Emissary, Rakdos Cackler and all the bears they might play and they can't even burn her away, while Bow gains us life. Kills or finishes fliers and in a war of attrition can make our creatures bigger, which matters specially in the mirror. Even making a Caryatid 1/4 will buy us a lot of time. Whip's reanimation is a bit flimsy since a one-shot swing isn't that good, specially with a Demon. We already have an array of creatures from Primeval Bounty and Xenagos for that to matter.

    Quote from Saxman2112
    -It's entirely possible that Sylvan Caryatid may not be a good choice in the end. It blocks the turn it comes down, and it ramps us into our fatties, but we have enough 2CC removal that more permanently solves our problems (Jet, Mortars, Decay, Doom Blade). We also have a solid 3CC slot too that we don't necessarily need to skip over (Putrefy, Hero's Downfall, Lifebane Zombie), or a backbreaking 4-5 combo that also gives us 27 life and 3-4 dudes for two cards that we absolutely need to get online ASAP anymore. My testing lists are currently not running it, but if there's a compelling argument as to why it's great (not just good), I'd love to hear it.


    Disagree here. Aggro has a lot of problems dealing with X/3, that's why they run Searing Spears. Being a 3 toughness with hexproof means this is a very problematic creature for them to deal with, and it can stall their board with the help of removal and bow the first few turns. Aside from that, late game she brings a beast out of Primeval and makes one more mana from Xenagos, so now that we lack lifegain, I think she alongside Rakdos Keyrune play a key role both in the form of ramp and defense.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    @Queklain

    I'm intrigued by Ruric Thar. How's it performing? With that much ramp it can even go into the mainboard: if he resolves he will be a great pain to deal with. Reach means it can block and kill an Angel of Serenity and Ashen Rider, and Vigilance means he has virtually no drawback. If he gets Azorius Charmed he deals his 6 damage anyway, and he's very, very punishing.

    Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig

    On Theros's power level:
    Quote from Tackman »
    It just doesn't feel like the decks in the RTR/THS Standard are unique and would be impossible in another Standard format, they look more like stronger limited decks than anything else...
  • #21
    Quote from Queklain
    So from what I get from this, you plan to pay nine mana to kill their dude with monsterous?...sounds...a little extreme.

    In any case here is the deck I've been tweaking:

    Cabz's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (15)
    3x Scavenging Ooze
    3x Desecration Demon
    2x Lifebane Zombie
    3x Reaper of the Wilds
    4x Sylvan Caryatid

    Spells (16)
    4x Thoughtseize
    3x Aprupt Decay
    3x Magma Jet
    2x Mizzium Mortars
    2x Hero's Downfall
    2x Fury of the gods

    Enchantment (1)
    1x Deadbridge Chant

    Planeswalkers (3)
    2x Chandra, Pyromaster
    1x Vraska, the unseen

    Lands (25)
    2x Swamp
    3x Forest
    4x Temple of Abaddon
    3x Stomping ground
    4x Blood Crypt
    4x Overgrown Tomb
    2x Rakdos Guildgate
    3x Golgari Guildgate



    As you can see, the mainboard has a lot of variation in it's removal suite, which allows for favorable removal of pretty much anything, while also running heavy disruption in the form of Thoughtseize/Lifebane Zombie. The rational behind the former is to be able to keep pace with the miriad of different aggro/midrange variants that pop up, and the latter is to keep their hand manageable, and to make sure that control heavy decks are made to go at our pace by losing their most relevant card in hand.


    Running Lifebane Zombie MB and Rakdos' Return SB seems like a bad idea.
    Find me on Cockatrice!
    Username: Cabz


    Taking a break from Commander.
  • #22
    Quote from Cabz
    Running Lifebane Zombie MB and Rakdos' Return SB seems like a bad idea.


    Not really. Return was always the first card taken out in aggro matchups. If we're expecting a heavy aggro meta, it makes sense to just make the swap before game 1 even happens. Besides, getting perfect information is never a bad thing.

    Edit: I've been toying around with the idea of Clan Defiance. If we go deep on Caryatid/Keyrune/Xenagos ramp, or maybe even if we don't, I'm still excited about potential 3-for-1's with huge damage.
  • #23
    Todd Anderson's Deck Test

    ajprokos's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (15)
    4 Desecration Demon
    2 Lifebane Zombie
    3 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Stormbreath Dragon
    4 Sylvan Caryatid

    Planeswalkers (8)
    4 Chandra, Pyromaster
    1 Vraska the Unseen
    3 Xenagos, the Reveler

    Lands (25)
    2 Forest
    2 Mountain
    3 Swamp
    4 Blood Crypt
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    2 Rakdos Guildgate
    4 Stomping Ground
    4 Temple of Abandon

    Spells (12)
    1 Doom Blade
    1 Hero's Downfall
    2 Putrefy
    1 Dreadbore
    3 Mizzium Mortars
    2 Rakdos's Return
    2 Thoughtseize


    Signature made by Inkfox Aesthetics
    Commander Decks:
    Sigarda, Host of Herons: Multiplayer Global Hate Enchantress green mana white mana
    Kaalia of the Vast: Traditional 1v1 white mana black mana red mana
    Oloro, Ageless Ascetic: Multiplayer Alt-Wincon white mana blue mana black mana
    Oloro, Ageless Ascetic: 1v1 Beatdown white mana blue mana black mana
    Quote from Phil »
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  • #24


    Hmm, interesting, it looks similar to my list, except he went with a 2-2 split of RR/thoughtseize as opposed to only one. I also disagree with the dragon since it seems inferior to thundermaw, which was only run as a 2 of most of the time.

    EDIT: also noticed that he didn't choose to run abrupt decay in his 75, which I also find a little questionable, but I guess this is just a test list.

    Epic Sig by: Myself
    Mindsplicer of [House Dimir]
    My Current EDH decks!

    Uril, the Miststalker WRG (Primary)

    (Secondary)
    Wrexial, the Risen Deep UB
    Olivia Voldaren BR
    Zedru, the Greathearted WUR
    Karador Ghost Chieftain WBG
  • #25
    My playgroup has been big on BG rock. Whats to make one play Jund over GB rock? I know you get an answer to BBV but is the manabase really worth it?


    Currently Playing

    Standard:BRB/R AggroBR
    Modern: WGDeath & TaxesWG
    Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
    EDH(Commander): WUGPhelddagrifWUG
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