EDIT: It has been testing very well. It's a little slower than the deck I played at FNM, but its far more consistent. With the addition of Stormbreaths, it gives the deck an added boost in raw power too.
Any thoughts or opinions on Jeff Hoogland's 1st place Jund list from last weekend? Was in situationally good for a weekend or does it have lasting power? Definitely seems to have a nice arsenal of removal for creature heavy decks, probably an average set of cards for control.
Nightveil Spectre I guess seems like a bit of surprise. Haven't sleeved up the mana but seems like 3 B on turn 3 could be tough. Not sure playing 2 Mana Confluence is worth it?
The Nightveil Specter is the big thing that throws me for a loop, but maybe playing it on turn four is no big deal? He has twenty black sources. Nightveil should be be fine to cast. That's similar to what I've run in the past all but that. The four Devour Flesh in the board look weird as well. I am gonna be jamming this before Baltimore. I am intrigued.
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The Nightveil Specter is the big thing that throws me for a loop, but maybe playing it on turn four is no big deal? He has twenty black sources. Nightveil should be be fine to cast. That's similar to what I've run in the past all but that. The four Devour Flesh in the board look weird as well. I am gonna be jamming this before Baltimore. I am intrigued.
Answered all of the questions that I had by addressing the Devour Flesh. And he says add a fourth Nightveil, an Urborg, and a Liliana come this weekend. All things I was hoping to be doing with this deck. I love no Thoughtseize builds. The lack of Duress in the board, though... which might be addressed by the Nightveils. For the last few months, I had debated a mono-black build with a jund manabase and decided it was too inconsistent, but Hoogland seems to have figured it out. I want to test this so badly.
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This deck looks like something I tested about a month ago minus the Nightveils of course. I would have never thought of that. I did try jamming pack rat in mine though.
The Nightveil Specter is the big thing that throws me for a loop, but maybe playing it on turn four is no big deal? He has twenty black sources. Nightveil should be be fine to cast. That's similar to what I've run in the past all but that. The four Devour Flesh in the board look weird as well. I am gonna be jamming this before Baltimore. I am intrigued.
Answered all of the questions that I had by addressing the Devour Flesh. And he says add a fourth Nightveil, an Urborg, and a Liliana come this weekend. All things I was hoping to be doing with this deck. Unsure of what gets cut for the fourth Nightveil, maybe a Dragon or a Demon? I love no Thoughtseize builds. The lack of Duress in the board, though... which might be addressed by the Nightveils. For the last few months, I had debated a mono-black build with a jund manabase and decided it was too inconsistent, but Hoogland seems to have figured it out. I want to test this so badly.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
The Nightveil Specter is the big thing that throws me for a loop, but maybe playing it on turn four is no big deal? He has twenty black sources. Nightveil should be be fine to cast. That's similar to what I've run in the past all but that. The four Devour Flesh in the board look weird as well. I am gonna be jamming this before Baltimore. I am intrigued.
Answered all of the questions that I had by addressing the Devour Flesh. And he says add a fourth Nightveil, an Urborg, and a Liliana come this weekend. All things I was hoping to be doing with this deck. Unsure of what gets cut for the fourth Nightveil, maybe a Dragon or a Demon? I love no Thoughtseize builds. The lack of Duress in the board, though... which might be addressed by the Nightveils. For the last few months, I had debated a mono-black build with a jund manabase and decided it was too inconsistent, but Hoogland seems to have figured it out. I want to test this so badly.
I'm guessing Hoogland played 4 courser because he didn't have the 4th copy of SPecter. I built this just a few minutes ago. I am missing a couple lands at the moment but this is what I have done with the list with slight upgrades with M15.
I'm curious as to why he (and others), don't play any polukranos or oozes. I messaged him on twitter about it but didn't really get a clear answer. Those cards are really good in a shell like this.
I understand why Polukranos isn't seeing play in his list. His article was pretty clear about it. He said Lifebane Zombie doesn't effect his deck because of the lack of Polukranos. The Ooze on the otherhand I believe is because he feels that it isn't that important at the moment. I'm sure if Dredge becomes a force in standard the shell could be updated to prey on the deck by adding Ooze and other GY hate cards.
My big question is: Is this list well equipped enough to combat control? I have been playing Monsters since JOU Game Day and have a very positive record vs Control with the deck. I was to say yes this deck can do it. But the lack of Xenagos, the reveler leads me think it needs some Xenagos in the 75. Perhaps the board could handle a few copies. I have also considered Slaughter Games, Ruric Thar, Sire of Insanity, RR #4, Duress, Thoughtseize, and even Mistcutter Hydra or Erebos.
At least with my list, I have thoughtseize main along with dragon and some planeswalker removal. Then in the board I have access to slaughter games, rakdos's return and golgari charm. I'm not sure but I may try duress in place of slaughter games as well.
Haven't posted in this thread yet but after seeing yet another 4-0 by RIWBTU, I wanted opinions on this list. In the past two weeks hes put up 3 4-0 and 3 or 4 3-1 with the same exact list. I honestly can't even see how the list wins but the results speak for themselves....
I'm personally a fan of no TS in Hoogland's Midrange decks. A lot of times it just ins't needed. In this current format( and likely isn't going to change drastically next week) burn is a thing. With 4 Thoughtseize in the main we are not a favorite to even remotely win vs the burn deck.
I like slaughter games for the control matchup and I'm even considering it for my list. It is just narrow is the reason I have yet to include it. The only time I want it is for Sphinx's Revelation. So that is likely only one matchup. While there are some control decks out there in my area, its popularity is waning. I just like having a deck that is prepared to handle whatever is thrown at it.
My big question is: Is this list well equipped enough to combat control? I have been playing Monsters since JOU Game Day and have a very positive record vs Control with the deck. I was to say yes this deck can do it. But the lack of Xenagos, the reveler leads me think it needs some Xenagos in the 75. Perhaps the board could handle a few copies. I have also considered Slaughter Games, Ruric Thar, Sire of Insanity, RR #4, Duress, Thoughtseize, and even Mistcutter Hydra or Erebos.
I really don't know what Hoogland's deck does against control or burn. The burn matchup makes me hesistant to cut the fourth Courser. Devour Flesh and Pharika's Cure go a long way, but I'll have to test it. I also have no idea what the Putrefy in the board is up to. That might become a Ruric Thar or Sire.
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Putrefy is a solid removal spell that also hits artifacts like Whip and Bident.
I think the control matchup gets better with the inclusion of Liliana Vess. His article says a lot about the deck while also remaining slightly vague. I have been testing the deck and I just defeated Mono Black Devotion and lost to Mono Black aggro after a tight race but I drew lands for 5+ turns while he drew heat. SO if anything the only that hurt was variance. The deck is a lot of fun to play and aggro has a hell of a time.
Artifacts that all get hit by Golgari Charm, or even Vraska, which is lacking in his list and understandably so. I'm not convinced on Putrefy or even who I would side it in against.
I'm looking to test his 75 -1 Swamp -1 Doom Blade -1 Putrefy +1 Urborg +1 Liliana +1 Xenagos. The deck never had problems with aggro decks, barring Boss Sligh and White Weenie.
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Haven't posted in this thread yet but after seeing yet another 4-0 by RIWBTU, I wanted opinions on this list. In the past two weeks hes put up 3 4-0 and 3 or 4 3-1 with the same exact list. I honestly can't even see how the list wins but the results speak for themselves....
I've never been a fan of several vraska maindecked, but maybe I don't work toward her ultimate often enough. I am a big fan of xenagos and it seems to be one of his few win conditions. He is having some success online, so he must be doing something right.
Has anyone tested the new garruk in a jund list? I've been testing one copy and 2 Liliana and it feels really strong. (Liliana more so than garruk.) It is honestly a rock deck maining four demon and splashing red for 3 xenagos, 2 rakdos' return, and a dreadbore as well as slaughtergames out of the board. I'm currently trying two reaper over polukranos. It still dies to lifebane zombie, but it is harder to kill and with such a low creature count I want my creatures to stick around whenever possible.
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"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Haven't posted in this thread yet but after seeing yet another 4-0 by RIWBTU, I wanted opinions on this list. In the past two weeks hes put up 3 4-0 and 3 or 4 3-1 with the same exact list. I honestly can't even see how the list wins but the results speak for themselves....
Each is pretty distinct from the others. Owen's is more or less a Rock deck splash red for a few cards. Jeff's is some of a traditional Jund I guess. The Walkers deck is very different.
Core cards across all 3 variants for Sylvan Caryatid, Courser of Kruphix, and Abrupt Decay (aside from land). It's hard to pick one at the moment.
By the way, does Courser ever get boarded out? Maybe against control so they don't see your next card?
Each is pretty distinct from the others. Owen's is more or less a Rock deck splash red for a few cards. Jeff's is some of a traditional Jund I guess. The Walkers deck is very different.
Core cards across all 3 variants for Sylvan Caryatid, Courser of Kruphix, and Abrupt Decay (aside from land). It's hard to pick one at the moment.
By the way, does Courser ever get boarded out? Maybe against control so they don't see your next card?
There's also Tom Ross' from the Atlanta Open. Honestly, Hoogland's is the only tested and successful version. Turtenwald is never taking Jund to a Grand Prix and the online meta isn't as tried as nine rounds of an IQ, I imagine but maybe I'm wrong. I played some games with Hoogland's list today and really liked it. Flipping Lifebanes, Rats, Downfalls off of Specter against BW Midrange is really good.
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I am very interested in the Walker one. Rotation may be hard since a lot of the cards it relies on leave, but cards like Stain the Mind look absolutely awesome in it consider how many tokens it makes. Cord of calling could be sick in it as well.
I am curious to see if Garruk fits in here. I think as a one of to replace a Vraska might be good. I don't like Nissa though, or maybe not until Verdict rotates out. Too hard to protect your land.
Not exactly the newest thing on the block, but still reasonable, serviceable, and highly able to be tuned for the newer format.
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Nocturnal God of Chaos of The Æsir Probably the most random person you will ever meet. Trust me on this one. Well, I'm off to poop.
Oh, my username is the same on Xbox and Cockatrice, add me!
"For some of us, easier Magic is good Magic, but if you are one of those 'intelligent types,' feel free to play your Hive Mind mirrors. The rest of us are here for the fireworks." - Kent Ketter
Playing in Type 2...BGRJundHearted
(246-174-26)
Played this to a 3-1-1 finish. 3rd place out of 17.
Rd 1 - BW Control (0-2) L
Rd 2 - BG Dredge (0-0-1) D
Rd 3 - BYE
Rd 4 - Izzet jank (2-0) W
Rd 5 - Jund Monsters (2-1) W
If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them later.
(246-174-26)
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Dreadbore
1 Golgari Charm
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
2 Underworld Connections
2 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Malice
4 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Golgari Charm
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Slaughter Games
EDIT: It has been testing very well. It's a little slower than the deck I played at FNM, but its far more consistent. With the addition of Stormbreaths, it gives the deck an added boost in raw power too.
(246-174-26)
Nightveil Spectre I guess seems like a bit of surprise. Haven't sleeved up the mana but seems like 3 B on turn 3 could be tough. Not sure playing 2 Mana Confluence is worth it?
No Slaughter Games and no Sire of Insanity...
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69951
Has anyone played a similar list? I was sleeving up Junk Midrange and now I'm not sure which one I like better?
http://themeadery.org/articles/dragons-and-demons-in-standard
Answered all of the questions that I had by addressing the Devour Flesh. And he says add a fourth Nightveil, an Urborg, and a Liliana come this weekend. All things I was hoping to be doing with this deck. I love no Thoughtseize builds. The lack of Duress in the board, though... which might be addressed by the Nightveils. For the last few months, I had debated a mono-black build with a jund manabase and decided it was too inconsistent, but Hoogland seems to have figured it out. I want to test this so badly.
http://themeadery.org/articles/dragons-and-demons-in-standard
Answered all of the questions that I had by addressing the Devour Flesh. And he says add a fourth Nightveil, an Urborg, and a Liliana come this weekend. All things I was hoping to be doing with this deck. Unsure of what gets cut for the fourth Nightveil, maybe a Dragon or a Demon? I love no Thoughtseize builds. The lack of Duress in the board, though... which might be addressed by the Nightveils. For the last few months, I had debated a mono-black build with a jund manabase and decided it was too inconsistent, but Hoogland seems to have figured it out. I want to test this so badly.
I'm guessing Hoogland played 4 courser because he didn't have the 4th copy of SPecter. I built this just a few minutes ago. I am missing a couple lands at the moment but this is what I have done with the list with slight upgrades with M15.
4 desecration demon
4 nightveil specter
3 courser of kruphix
4 sylvan caryatid
2 abrupt decay
2 golgari charm
3 dreadbore
3 hero's downfall
2 mizzium mortars
2 underworld connections
2 rakdos's return
1 forest
2 mana confluence
2 swamp
3 stomping ground
4 overgrown tomb
1 temple of abandon
3 temple of malice
3 temple of malady
1 golgari guildgate
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
(246-174-26)
My big question is: Is this list well equipped enough to combat control? I have been playing Monsters since JOU Game Day and have a very positive record vs Control with the deck. I was to say yes this deck can do it. But the lack of Xenagos, the reveler leads me think it needs some Xenagos in the 75. Perhaps the board could handle a few copies. I have also considered Slaughter Games, Ruric Thar, Sire of Insanity, RR #4, Duress, Thoughtseize, and even Mistcutter Hydra or Erebos.
(246-174-26)
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/RIWBTU
I like slaughter games for the control matchup and I'm even considering it for my list. It is just narrow is the reason I have yet to include it. The only time I want it is for Sphinx's Revelation. So that is likely only one matchup. While there are some control decks out there in my area, its popularity is waning. I just like having a deck that is prepared to handle whatever is thrown at it.
My current Sideboard
3 devour flesh
2 drown in sorrow
1 putrefy
1 pharika's cure
1 golgari charm
2 lifebane zombie
1 liliana vess
1 erebos, god of the dead
1 underworld connections
1 rakdos's return
I think the control matchup gets better with the inclusion of Liliana Vess. His article says a lot about the deck while also remaining slightly vague. I have been testing the deck and I just defeated Mono Black Devotion and lost to Mono Black aggro after a tight race but I drew lands for 5+ turns while he drew heat. SO if anything the only that hurt was variance. The deck is a lot of fun to play and aggro has a hell of a time.
I'm looking to test his 75 -1 Swamp -1 Doom Blade -1 Putrefy +1 Urborg +1 Liliana +1 Xenagos. The deck never had problems with aggro decks, barring Boss Sligh and White Weenie.
I've never been a fan of several vraska maindecked, but maybe I don't work toward her ultimate often enough. I am a big fan of xenagos and it seems to be one of his few win conditions. He is having some success online, so he must be doing something right.
Has anyone tested the new garruk in a jund list? I've been testing one copy and 2 Liliana and it feels really strong. (Liliana more so than garruk.) It is honestly a rock deck maining four demon and splashing red for 3 xenagos, 2 rakdos' return, and a dreadbore as well as slaughtergames out of the board. I'm currently trying two reaper over polukranos. It still dies to lifebane zombie, but it is harder to kill and with such a low creature count I want my creatures to stick around whenever possible.
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Deck is getting some looks. Today's SCG article hits along the same deck design... http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28912_Daily-Digest-Jund-Superfriends.html
Edit: It is the same deck, just noticed the name under the deck name.
- Owen Turtenwald Jund http://www.channelfireball.com/home/owens-a-win-jund-and-why-golgari-charm-is-so-great/
- Jeff Hoogland Jund http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69951
- RIWBTU Jund Walkers http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/RIWBTU
Each is pretty distinct from the others. Owen's is more or less a Rock deck splash red for a few cards. Jeff's is some of a traditional Jund I guess. The Walkers deck is very different.
Core cards across all 3 variants for Sylvan Caryatid, Courser of Kruphix, and Abrupt Decay (aside from land). It's hard to pick one at the moment.
By the way, does Courser ever get boarded out? Maybe against control so they don't see your next card?
I am curious to see if Garruk fits in here. I think as a one of to replace a Vraska might be good. I don't like Nissa though, or maybe not until Verdict rotates out. Too hard to protect your land.
4 Stomping Ground
4 Blood Crypt
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Malice
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Mutavault
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Desecration Demon
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Underworld Connections
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Liliana Vess
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Pithing Needle
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
3 Golgari Charm
1 Unravel the AEther
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Slaughter Games
1 Gaze of Granite
Not exactly the newest thing on the block, but still reasonable, serviceable, and highly able to be tuned for the newer format.
Oh, my username is the same on Xbox and Cockatrice, add me!
"For some of us, easier Magic is good Magic, but if you are one of those 'intelligent types,' feel free to play your Hive Mind mirrors. The rest of us are here for the fireworks." - Kent Ketter
Playing in Type 2...BGRJundHearted