I played in a small Standard tournament today. Here are my findings:
-Maindeck Basara Archer is good. It almost takes the place of Skylasher, with the additional bonus of being Hexproof. This card will help us fight Stormbreath Dragon for sure. Can't be removed easily when we start buffing it with Ajani or post sideboard
-Godsend is GOOD. It is PERFECT for this deck. I sideboarded one copy and saw it twice today. Both times it was very welcome. It makes combat very awkward for other people and it dovetails perfectly in our deck. They usually use up their spot removal early, making equipping Godsend not the tempo loss others have feared. Packing God's Willing helps protect when you equip as well, leading to super tempo loss for THEM. This + Archer means stormbreath dragon is useless as hell. This + anything with trample means damage is going to get through, period. This is the perfect catch all removal we were looking for.
-Brimaz is still the bomb - dodges Bile Blight, buffs Elemental tokens, stalls Desecration Demon like a champ
-Confluence is required
I feel we are very well positioned right now. We punish decks that are still being fine tuned and punish control, which everyone and their mother is playing right now. Glare of Heresy seems really good for sb right now because the gain one life ram can be an issue, along with Archangel of Thune. I did not play any Banishing Lights or Banisher Priests and I didn't miss them at all. Scavenging Ooze worked out well in the side against dredge wannabes and B/X aggro.
Ok, as played currently, I love Godsend. Try fitting it onto a Brimaz and see for yourself.
I've done 2 standard events so far and it's gone 4-0 with the current list.
FNM I played against Naya Hexproof, Selesnya Aggro and Selesnya Midrange, and last was a black white combo deck. The combo deck was tough, game one I was trumped because he slapped an enchantment on one of his dudes and kept recurring it over and over. Irritating. Pithing Needle went in and stopped the combo cold when I named Cartel Aristocrat and he couldn't combo out anymore to make millions of zombies.
Last night, G/R Monsters - Plummet trumps here. BUW deck which can be annoying, except Mutavaults were always on the field to take out my opponent. Mono Black... This was a very tough matchup, Game 1 went to me easy. Game 2, well, I kept a nut draw that quickly became pointless when he thoughtsiezed me twice and then killed everything else I could play. Third game, he mulled to 5 and still didn't draw a 2nd land until turn 5, by then it was over for him. Last round, I played against mono blue devotion and somehow won both games and swept him.
Sounds like Xathrid Necromancer and Cartel Aristocrat, sac humans to Aristocrat and make Zombies in the process with Necromancer. Maybe even an Athreos involved?
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Sounds like Xathrid Necromancer and Cartel Aristocrat, sac humans to Aristocrat and make Zombies in the process with Necromancer. Maybe even an Athreos involved?
Stupid enchantment did me in.
Here's the combo:
Gift of Immortality and Xanthrid Necromancer with Cartel Aristocrat. He does have Atheros, and I did see that Dictate of Erebos once at least. Altar's Reap is interesting when a single creature made 3 zombies. Or when he used the Undercity Informer because that was his other sac outlet I never saw coming except he pulled it off a single time. That guy hurts a lot.
I think ryansolid pretty much nailed it. GW was not viable this past season, so what does JOU bring that might change that.
Meta Shift: If Athreos enables a BW deck (or just a white weenie with Athreos, Confluence, and Godless Shrine), then GW midrange is probably quite solid against that deck, as Caryatid stalls/ramps and we can simply get much bigger than them, with Unflinching Courage giving us the win.
However, MonoB will still be a deck to beat, and is not a great MU, RG monsters, MUD, RW burn and Dredge will be the decks to keep in mind.
So, what changes for the deck?
-Mana Confluence is not at its best here, but makes it easier to run Brimaz and Courser and reliably cast t3.
-Caryatid+Confluence makes a splash fairly easy, but at cost of damage from your manabase.
-Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is very good, do not underestimate the counters ability, as it makes a huge difference against other midrange or against aggro, and vs control it digs for threats as well as allowing a single creature to be dangerous, reducing need to overextending into a sweeper. Keep in mind that most deck is will have 4 answers to it
-Deicide is solid, it has good targets in EVERY deck, because it hits many creatures in addition to gods (which is incredible vs MUD).
-Bassara Tower Archer is worth considering, buys time vs Demon, stops Nightveil and blue 1-drops, works well with Ajani
-Nyxfleece Ram means we never need to lose to burn again
Unfortunately, I don't think any of those do enough to make GW midrange good enough.
Something to consider might be Gideon.
I've been testing him and he is actually really good, either eats a sphere/downfall for Ajani/Elspeth or is dominant. Vs weenie he is not great as they can often ignore him, but if you get some blockers he gets so big so fast that they can't ignore him (Swinging next turn as an 8/8). If they attack him then you just keep doing +1 and he absorbs a ridiculous amount of damage before they can kill him. Vs control he is just a 5/5 attacker who doesn't die to Verdict, which is worth playing. Vs MonoB he is a big attacker is usually bigger than a Demon, allowing you to try to race (unless they attack him, in which case he absorbed a lot of damage). Not great vs Rat, but no worse than anything else. The reason he has seen no play is because he wasn't good enough last year (neither was demon, Rat, or half of MUD), and since Theros there hasn't been a good GW deck. Most of the people testing GW ignore him because he hasn't seen play. Not saying he is an auto-include/4-of, but test him before you dismiss him.
Sounds like Xathrid Necromancer and Cartel Aristocrat, sac humans to Aristocrat and make Zombies in the process with Necromancer. Maybe even an Athreos involved?
Stupid enchantment did me in.
Here's the combo:
Gift of Immortality and Xanthrid Necromancer with Cartel Aristocrat. He does have Atheros, and I did see that Dictate of Erebos once at least. Altar's Reap is interesting when a single creature made 3 zombies. Or when he used the Undercity Informer because that was his other sac outlet I never saw coming except he pulled it off a single time. That guy hurts a lot.
Ahhh, I completely forgot about Gift. That sounds like a pretty fun deck to play, really.
Re: Midrange, there was actually a Junk midrange deck in third place at the last SCG open, but it was very heavy on black for stuff like Lifebane Zombie, Underworld Connections, Thoughtseize, and Downfall. Plus needing double green for Courser and Advent, and double white for Archangel of Thune and Obzedat. Pretty greedy in terms of mana but it got him there.
I really think this is the closest thing to GW midrange that would work. Straight GW just doesn't have enough utility, I feel. Splash Red and you're basically playing Monsters, splash blue and you might as well go all the way to Bant Control.
Re: Midrange, there was actually a Junk midrange deck in third place at the last SCG open, but it was very heavy on black for stuff like Lifebane Zombie, Underworld Connections, Thoughtseize, and Downfall. Plus needing double green for Courser and Advent, and double white for Archangel of Thune and Obzedat. Pretty greedy in terms of mana but it got him there.
I really think this is the closest thing to GW midrange that would work. Straight GW just doesn't have enough utility, I feel. Splash Red and you're basically playing Monsters, splash blue and you might as well go all the way to Bant Control.
I disagree. G/W is way more aggressive than the junk version. Junk run at least 7 more scry lands than G/W, and it's definitely a late midgame deck. G/W on the other hand can pressure really early with brimaz, king of oreskos (i run 3), and 2 polukranos, world eater on top of 4 advent of the wurm, as well as dropping cards earlier because there's way less scry lands.
I really think this is the closest thing to GW midrange that would work. Straight GW just doesn't have enough utility, I feel. Splash Red and you're basically playing Monsters, splash blue and you might as well go all the way to Bant Control.
GW midrange, maybe... But..
Round 1 - I played a RB deck that ran a horde of 1/1s, Desecration Demons, and Lifebane Zombie.
I didn't side out either time. Won 2-0.
Round 2 - Mono Black Devotion. First round was a gimme. With 4 banishing lights and 4 selesnya charms mainboard I proceded to stomp the ever living heck out of the player.
Game 2 went the same. I sided in 4 plummets, dropped 4 Coursers and now had 14 ways to remove stuff. Lifebane 1 got him an Experiment 1, Lifebane 2 got nothing. Thoughtsieze pulled an advent. I locked his fliers down, exiled his Erebos, and flew in with a 14 damage flying and doublestrike trample worm on turn 5.
Round 3 - mono black aggro. 2-1. First game, he lost very quickly. His creatures could never attack through a host of critters I played. I sided out 4 advents, put in 2 Unflinching Courage and 2 Skylashers. Second game, he beat me. I kept a 2 land hand and has a nut draw. Too bad I didn't get a third land to play anything. Game 3, I had a 3 land hand, Courser, Courser, Experiment One x2, and drew into Brimaz and Godsend. Guess who won?
Round 4 - GR Monsters. 2-1. I lost round 1 to Stormbreath. Round 2, 4 Plummets and 2 Unflinching Courage in, 4 Coursers out along with 2 Advents. I banished half his guys, plummeted 2 stormbreaths, killed his planeswalkers off, and killed him. Round 3, he mulls to 5, draws nothing but lands, and Experiment One with a godsend kills his dudes.
What I'm having trouble deciding, is if I should pull the two Glares for 2 Setessan Tactics. Thoughts? I'm going to be testing out that idea tonight. Might place them mainboard in place of two rootborns.
I've been working on a midrange version of the deck, and while it performs well against most decks (excluding Esper when they draw really well), I have had trouble with hexproof. They often beat themselves, but when they draw effectively there is no way for me to beat them without running Celestial Flare. I'm expecting a lot of hexproof tonight and am running 3 between main and side, as well as 4 Banishing Light and 2 Deicide, so I should have no trouble tonight, but I hate the need to run Flare just for a single deck, and I don't think doing so is viable for a larger event. Any alternatives to Flare for beating an average hexproof draw (not trying to beat their god draws, as that would be nearly impossible. Just trying to be able to consistently win 2-1)
-Maindeck Basara Archer is good. It almost takes the place of Skylasher, with the additional bonus of being Hexproof. This card will help us fight Stormbreath Dragon for sure. Can't be removed easily when we start buffing it with Ajani or post sideboard
-Godsend is GOOD. It is PERFECT for this deck. I sideboarded one copy and saw it twice today. Both times it was very welcome. It makes combat very awkward for other people and it dovetails perfectly in our deck. They usually use up their spot removal early, making equipping Godsend not the tempo loss others have feared. Packing God's Willing helps protect when you equip as well, leading to super tempo loss for THEM. This + Archer means stormbreath dragon is useless as hell. This + anything with trample means damage is going to get through, period. This is the perfect catch all removal we were looking for.
-Brimaz is still the bomb - dodges Bile Blight, buffs Elemental tokens, stalls Desecration Demon like a champ
-Confluence is required
I feel we are very well positioned right now. We punish decks that are still being fine tuned and punish control, which everyone and their mother is playing right now. Glare of Heresy seems really good for sb right now because the gain one life ram can be an issue, along with Archangel of Thune. I did not play any Banishing Lights or Banisher Priests and I didn't miss them at all. Scavenging Ooze worked out well in the side against dredge wannabes and B/X aggro.
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Mutavault
4 Mana Confluence
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Plenty
Creatures: (26)
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
3 Experiment One
3 Fleecemane Lion
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Advent of the Wurm
2 Skylasher
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Rootborn Defenses
4 Banishing Light
2 Godsend
4 Plummet
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Pithing Needle
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Skylasher
Ok, as played currently, I love Godsend. Try fitting it onto a Brimaz and see for yourself.
I've done 2 standard events so far and it's gone 4-0 with the current list.
FNM I played against Naya Hexproof, Selesnya Aggro and Selesnya Midrange, and last was a black white combo deck. The combo deck was tough, game one I was trumped because he slapped an enchantment on one of his dudes and kept recurring it over and over. Irritating. Pithing Needle went in and stopped the combo cold when I named Cartel Aristocrat and he couldn't combo out anymore to make millions of zombies.
Last night, G/R Monsters - Plummet trumps here. BUW deck which can be annoying, except Mutavaults were always on the field to take out my opponent. Mono Black... This was a very tough matchup, Game 1 went to me easy. Game 2, well, I kept a nut draw that quickly became pointless when he thoughtsiezed me twice and then killed everything else I could play. Third game, he mulled to 5 and still didn't draw a 2nd land until turn 5, by then it was over for him. Last round, I played against mono blue devotion and somehow won both games and swept him.
Sounds like Xathrid Necromancer and Cartel Aristocrat, sac humans to Aristocrat and make Zombies in the process with Necromancer. Maybe even an Athreos involved?
Stupid enchantment did me in.
Here's the combo:
Gift of Immortality and Xanthrid Necromancer with Cartel Aristocrat. He does have Atheros, and I did see that Dictate of Erebos once at least. Altar's Reap is interesting when a single creature made 3 zombies. Or when he used the Undercity Informer because that was his other sac outlet I never saw coming except he pulled it off a single time. That guy hurts a lot.
Meta Shift: If Athreos enables a BW deck (or just a white weenie with Athreos, Confluence, and Godless Shrine), then GW midrange is probably quite solid against that deck, as Caryatid stalls/ramps and we can simply get much bigger than them, with Unflinching Courage giving us the win.
However, MonoB will still be a deck to beat, and is not a great MU, RG monsters, MUD, RW burn and Dredge will be the decks to keep in mind.
So, what changes for the deck?
-Mana Confluence is not at its best here, but makes it easier to run Brimaz and Courser and reliably cast t3.
-Caryatid+Confluence makes a splash fairly easy, but at cost of damage from your manabase.
-Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is very good, do not underestimate the counters ability, as it makes a huge difference against other midrange or against aggro, and vs control it digs for threats as well as allowing a single creature to be dangerous, reducing need to overextending into a sweeper. Keep in mind that most deck is will have 4 answers to it
-Deicide is solid, it has good targets in EVERY deck, because it hits many creatures in addition to gods (which is incredible vs MUD).
-Bassara Tower Archer is worth considering, buys time vs Demon, stops Nightveil and blue 1-drops, works well with Ajani
-Nyxfleece Ram means we never need to lose to burn again
Unfortunately, I don't think any of those do enough to make GW midrange good enough.
Something to consider might be Gideon.
I've been testing him and he is actually really good, either eats a sphere/downfall for Ajani/Elspeth or is dominant. Vs weenie he is not great as they can often ignore him, but if you get some blockers he gets so big so fast that they can't ignore him (Swinging next turn as an 8/8). If they attack him then you just keep doing +1 and he absorbs a ridiculous amount of damage before they can kill him. Vs control he is just a 5/5 attacker who doesn't die to Verdict, which is worth playing. Vs MonoB he is a big attacker is usually bigger than a Demon, allowing you to try to race (unless they attack him, in which case he absorbed a lot of damage). Not great vs Rat, but no worse than anything else. The reason he has seen no play is because he wasn't good enough last year (neither was demon, Rat, or half of MUD), and since Theros there hasn't been a good GW deck. Most of the people testing GW ignore him because he hasn't seen play. Not saying he is an auto-include/4-of, but test him before you dismiss him.
Ahhh, I completely forgot about Gift. That sounds like a pretty fun deck to play, really.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66903
I really think this is the closest thing to GW midrange that would work. Straight GW just doesn't have enough utility, I feel. Splash Red and you're basically playing Monsters, splash blue and you might as well go all the way to Bant Control.
I disagree. G/W is way more aggressive than the junk version. Junk run at least 7 more scry lands than G/W, and it's definitely a late midgame deck. G/W on the other hand can pressure really early with brimaz, king of oreskos (i run 3), and 2 polukranos, world eater on top of 4 advent of the wurm, as well as dropping cards earlier because there's way less scry lands.
Obviously we don't have hero's downfall and abrupt decay, but to make up for it we have
Also, this isn't to say one is better than the other, I'm just saying G/W is definitely viable, and they are just simply different play styles.
GW midrange, maybe... But..
Round 1 - I played a RB deck that ran a horde of 1/1s, Desecration Demons, and Lifebane Zombie.
I didn't side out either time. Won 2-0.
Round 2 - Mono Black Devotion. First round was a gimme. With 4 banishing lights and 4 selesnya charms mainboard I proceded to stomp the ever living heck out of the player.
Game 2 went the same. I sided in 4 plummets, dropped 4 Coursers and now had 14 ways to remove stuff. Lifebane 1 got him an Experiment 1, Lifebane 2 got nothing. Thoughtsieze pulled an advent. I locked his fliers down, exiled his Erebos, and flew in with a 14 damage flying and doublestrike trample worm on turn 5.
Round 3 - mono black aggro. 2-1. First game, he lost very quickly. His creatures could never attack through a host of critters I played. I sided out 4 advents, put in 2 Unflinching Courage and 2 Skylashers. Second game, he beat me. I kept a 2 land hand and has a nut draw. Too bad I didn't get a third land to play anything. Game 3, I had a 3 land hand, Courser, Courser, Experiment One x2, and drew into Brimaz and Godsend. Guess who won?
Round 4 - GR Monsters. 2-1. I lost round 1 to Stormbreath. Round 2, 4 Plummets and 2 Unflinching Courage in, 4 Coursers out along with 2 Advents. I banished half his guys, plummeted 2 stormbreaths, killed his planeswalkers off, and killed him. Round 3, he mulls to 5, draws nothing but lands, and Experiment One with a godsend kills his dudes.
this hurts me to read a little
Advent's so good! Why do you side it out?
mono black aggro can be fast. Very fast. I need more speed and lower cost drops to win.
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Mutavault
4 Mana Confluence
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Plenty
Creatures: (24)
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Experiment One
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Advent of the Wurm
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Rootborn Defenses
4 Banishing Light
2 Godsend
4 Plummet
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Pithing Needle
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Skylasher
2 Unflinching Courage
What I'm having trouble deciding, is if I should pull the two Glares for 2 Setessan Tactics. Thoughts? I'm going to be testing out that idea tonight. Might place them mainboard in place of two rootborns.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/established-standard/557417-primer-selesnya-gw-aggro-midrange