Some comments: Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius has been hit or miss. I've found him quite good in some aggro matchups to close out the game, but obviously kind of lackluster against control. It's arguable that against aggro, he's just a win-more card, but it hasn't always been the case. I may end up cutting him, but who doesn't like drawing cards off him?
As for my draw suite, I'm a huge fan of Thoughtflare despite the drawback. It digs as much as Opportunity for one less mana, but that could always be an argument just to play more Opportunitys considering the net card loss. I haven't tested an additional copy of Steam Augury over 1 Thoughtflare, so I can't comment on that. A fourth Inspiration might just round things out.
The removal package is pretty standard and obviously will be dependent on the metagame, as will the sideboard.
Testing has been great. Esper is a fine match pre-board and gets much better afterward. There hasn't been one dominant aggro deck that I've faced yet, but 14 removal spells along with counters has worked well so far in the general matchup. I'd love to come up with an equally suitable tap-out version running the solid planeswalkers available to Grixis, though, as I think those versions might have a better aggro matchup but a worse control one.
Specter is a bad card, but perfect mana fixing sounds okay to me. The interaction is interesting at least.
While running Grixis, I'm not sure why one would want to run more Inspiration than Steam Augury. In a tap-out build, Inspiration seems much worse.
In a dual colored deck, I can understand Inspiration, but for this shard we've already established that we need a lot of dig.
In my testing for UB, I've found that 4x Inspiration and 2x Opportunity is enough. It's not like we have access to a bunch of cheap cycling or draw that is any good. Grixis gives us Steam Augury but it's not like that lowers our draw curve. Acting like the block decks won't port and that we can have a avg mana cost of 10.5 or whatever is incorrect. The decks will be reasonably fast with little staying power outside of VoR, Rootborn Defenses, and Boros/Golgari Charm. So running 8 draw spells that cost 4 or more mana seems like a bad time. I'd rather just run a full set of Devour Flesh.
Magma Jet has been bleh in testing. It's fine against RDW but sucks against Selesnya and mono-green lists.
I feel that Mind Grind gives us more control since you can just count their lands. Psychic Spiral is a exhausting wait until you get to 25 cards in your graveyard and is dependent on you getting stuff in your gy whereas Mind Grind is dependent on you hitting land drops. Acting like tapping out is a big deal at that point in the game is kind of silly. Either they have the counter or the fattie or they don't. If you're worried about it, leave mana open for a counter. Having tested both, I don't think either Mind Grind or Psychic Spiral is very good. Their impact and the way I end up playing them is virtually the same (although one I can do EoT, big whoop I guess). If you lose a single game, your possibility of going to turns is very high. Nobody likes to play on turns. Neither is MD-able IMO unless you're full blown permission.
I feel that Mind Grind gives us more control since you can just count their lands. Psychic Spiral is a exhausting wait until you get to 25 cards in your graveyard and is dependent on you getting stuff in your gy whereas Mind Grind is dependent on you hitting land drops. Acting like tapping out is a big deal at that point in the game is kind of silly. Either they have the counter or the fattie or they don't. If you're worried about it, leave mana open for a counter. Having tested both, I don't think either Mind Grind or Psychic Spiral is very good. Their impact and the way I end up playing them is virtually the same (although one I can do EoT, big whoop I guess). If you lose a single game, your possibility of going to turns is very high. Nobody likes to play on turns. Neither is MD-able IMO unless you're full blown permission.
I find it interesting how the speed at which the two cards are cast is so heavily considered to be honest.
Generally, Spiral is played EOT at instant speed as kind of a "Hah! Caught you with your pants down" kind of play that can flex itself into dealing with other things first, such as countering an opponent's endgame or buying yourself time with removal.
Spiral is a spell you passively set yourself up for by simply playing your other spells.
Mind Grind is one you are kind of actively setting up by playing your land and feeling out (or securing) your opening.
You really have to play Mind Grind, kind of like you do Rakdos's Return, if you can manage to play to it's strengths and ensure it is doing what it needs to do, it pretty much wins in a single go.
Personally, with things like removal and counter helping me build up a powerful X, and cards like Thoughtseize and Rakdos's Return helping me execute, I find Mind Grind to be more powerful the cards naturally build up to a powerful Mind Grind without ever having to really ever try and force it, where Spiral, if you do not play enough spells, just does not do much at all.
Counting their land also helps me gauge where I am at and I can give myself a time frame in which the game can close, where I cannot really do that as well with Spiral.
I don't understand why Mind Grind is even on the table. Psychic Spiral is good because it fixes problems with Steam Augury and it's an instant way to close out games. Aetherling is a bomb that you can tap out for, that will beat up planeswalkers and dominate a board position. Why even consider Mind Grind, next to those two giants? What edge does it have? "My opponent might have no lands for a while and I might mill 15 for 7 mana?" Who cares about that? Spiral mills about the same as a Mind Grind, it does it for less mana, it does it at instant-speed, and it shuffles business back into your deck (which means it improves draws for the long run).
Yea, why are we talking about Mind Grind. Sure its fun but if your gonna play it at soc speed big Jace is just better.
He costs a flat 5 so you can have counter mana up
He has 4 loyaty so its and extra 4 life
He tells your opp deal with me or else
Already way better then Mind Grind
Have you guys consider izzet charm in the spiral build... back when RTR first came out I did a spiral grixis with 4 forbidden ,2-3 izzets and 2 lighthouses. We are basically replacing forbidden with Steam Augury
I don't much care for the Keyrunes tbh. Rakdos Keyrune lost a LOT of its lustre now that Thragtusk is gone. If you're really in the market for mana rocks I wouldn't look any further than Chromatic Lantern as it not only accelerates you but also works pretty well with your basics.
Maybe 8 UB duals, some Grotto's and some number of Lanterns would be a better fit?
I read this a while earlier, but I've had some time to do a little testing where I've drawn and used the Rakdos Keyrunes a few times. So now I think I can speak on it, at least as far as initial testing is concerned.
While Thragtusk was a major reason to run the card, the absence of Thragtusk has nothing to do with its playability. A 3/1 first striker is good at beating a lot of smaller creatures in combat, including Mutavault and most 1-2 drops. It also trades with Reckoner (you take damage, but it's still a solution to a popular and annoying creature). In addition, a 3-powered clock can damage planeswalkers and potentially take them out. With first strike, it has something of evasion--do you chump block it and lose your guy for another turn with a walker (which might just get Hero's Demised), or do you let it through? It's no Creeping Tar Pit...but Creeping Tar Pit was never this good at defending against opposing creatures in combat, either.
I think it would be better to play this card than Chromatic Lantern because this card is more than just mana; it's also a relevant creature. It's not necessarily fantastic, and it does die to removal, but it's relevant. I think if the manabase is designed to consistently get turn 3 Dissolve mana, getting rainbow mana from a 3-drop rock is excessive, so I'd rather just let the card be a faux-manland and help fight mana flood by being a threat/defender sometimes.
I was thinking about something else, too: I don't know about you guys, but I really miss Snapcaster Mage. Having a random dude just to trade in combat and hit walkers...it's convenient. Obviously Rakdos Keyrune doesn't 2-for-1 and get bounced by Far+Away for mega-advantages, but it is a decent little creature that does another job, too. I know we've all really been testing with Ashiok and he's in a sizable number of lists...but I'm starting to find Ashiok lackluster in a large number of test games. The randomness factor is a big problem for that guy. Sometimes, all I really want is to just use my 3-drop to trade efficiently or to stabilize the board. Keyrune looks better than Ashiok, so far.
Interesting mana base, I-N-S. I'd been trying the full 12 shocks, but it definitely feels to costly.
I figure that if you were cool at this point with sharing your list, you probably already would have done so, but I had a couple Q's:
1) Are you running AoT?
2) Are you guys playing around with any creatures besides AEtherling (and of course now the Keyrune)?
3) Have you settled on a ratio of counters/draw and could you share it?
Non-MTG related, a scary injury to Shady McCoy on Thurs. I was glad to see the man come back in the game. I'm a Chiefs fan and I remember when Jamaal went down week 2 a couple years back with the ACL. Killed the Chiefs season for me and my fantasy squad in 5 secs.
26 hours and counting, no sleep. Midnight prerelease.
Lot's of fun, pulled foil Xenagos during sealed. Sponsored the first place player, top 8 chopped and I split a box with the guy, pulled foil AotG and Erebos, rest was 2 whips and meh.
Cavern is gone, let's take advantage of this fact and run counters. Lots of 'em. Essence Scatter is really good in the main, trumps Gods on the stack. Like INS mentioned, if I remember correctly. I'd rather run 3 AotG than a bunch of 1-for-1 removal that just ends up making me waste cards. Bestow is a thing so let's say trying to Doom Blade a creature that's getting bestowed on isn't favorable.
Interesting mana base, I-N-S. I'd been trying the full 12 shocks, but it definitely feels to costly.
I figure that if you were cool at this point with sharing your list, you probably already would have done so, but I had a couple Q's:
1) Are you running AoT?
2) Are you guys playing around with any creatures besides AEtherling (and of course now the Keyrune)?
3) Have you settled on a ratio of counters/draw and could you share it?
1. I'm not running AoT right now, but he's not a bad option. Mostly I'm trying to make the draw suite work with just instants, but if that fails then I'll probably use AoT.
2. I've steadily had ~3 Notion Thieves in my board, and I've tested with them in the main as well. I think they're a bit too narrow for the maindeck right now, but I was trying them just because I had some space and I wanted to try something proactive (but not sorcery-speed). I've also tested Omenspeaker pretty heavily, but that card is terrible. I don't really know if there are any other creatures I actually want to play...maybe Scavenging Ooze or the new mana tree in a UGx (probably BUG or BUGr) build.
3. The counter suite base I prefer is:
With that last slot being Psychic Strike or Cancel by default, but possibly Render Silent, Counterflux, Plasm Capture, or Mystic Genesis--depending on the splash color(s), the manabase stability/reliability, and the deck's overall gameplan. I think 15 counters is the prefered number, but you could probably go down to 13-14 if you really wanted. And if you play Thoughtflare, theoretically I could see a 4th Syncopate and/or more Essence Scatter/Negate/Izzet Charm, as all of those conditional counters get a lot better when you can throw them away later.
I think in the board, Gainsay is the best card for control mirrors. Dispel is good against those decks and also good against GW decks because it counters their Wurms and SCharms as well as Rootbound Defenses in key situations (depending on your removal suite; if you play 4 Far/Away then you just $#!% all over that stupid GW deck and you don't need Dispel at all). Annul is also a very, very good counterspell. That 4/2 flash green creature is going to see a lot of play just because it's an efficient body and it's a flash threat, even if it almost never gets bestowed onto another dude. Annul counters that, the gods (even though the B and W ones are the only relevant ones), Underworld Connections, and a few random other things.
As far as draw goes, right now I'm using:
4 Inspiration
4 Steam Augury
2 Opportunity
In that UBr shell with 4 scry lands and 4 Dissolve for extra filtering. I play 2 Spirals and 1 Aetherling right now, though I'm trying to cut that down.
Non-MTG related, a scary injury to Shady McCoy on Thurs. I was glad to see the man come back in the game. I'm a Chiefs fan and I remember when Jamaal went down week 2 a couple years back with the ACL. Killed the Chiefs season for me and my fantasy squad in 5 secs.
Yeah, me too. Shady McCoy is my favorite player on offense (my favorite player is Troy Polamalu), and I happen to have invested the first pick on him in both my fantasy leagues. I was having all kinds of heart palpitations halfway through that game....
Yeah, that Chiefs season a year or two ago...that was upsetting to watch. It wasn't just Charles, it was also like 9-10 starters gone, no quarterback, and Todd Haley ruining a good team. (Now that guy's screwing up my Steelers' offense!) That happens to a team or two each season, but usually not so much because of so many injuries...and it wasn't like they were in a rebuilding year or the Suck for Luck kind of situation.
26 hours and counting, no sleep. Midnight prerelease.
I know how that goes. I don't think there's a card tournament or event I've been to where I wasn't sleep-deprived.
Cavern is gone, let's take advantage of this fact and run counters. Lots of 'em. Essence Scatter is really good in the main, trumps Gods on the stack. Like INS mentioned, if I remember correctly. I'd rather run 3 AotG than a bunch of 1-for-1 removal that just ends up making me waste cards. Bestow is a thing so let's say trying to Doom Blade a creature that's getting bestowed on isn't favorable.
I'm with you: 15+ counters or bust. The only thing that would stop me from play a ton of counters is if there's some kind of combo deck...I go where the draw spells are.
Right now, I'm trying to make red a light splash and focus more on UB with Augury, but something on my list of stuff to test is Anger of the Gods+Quicken. I know a lot of people don't like Quicken because it's a little random when it shows up, and it does have downsides in that you have to choose when to cycle it. But I think Quicken might open up some things: instant 4-mana board wipe, instant versions of some sorcery draw spells (not stupid Divination, but perhaps Read the Bones or Uncovered Clues), and maybe something else that's relevant. There is also something to be said for having cantrips in a deck with scrylands.
The tough problem with Anger of the Gods is that it only works well with Dissolve when you are almost straight UR, if not completely devoid of a third color. But that means your spot removal spells are terrible. It's a mess.
Which comes to 26+3=29 mana sources. That's pretty mana-heavy on paper, but it feels about right, thus far. IDK if I'd go over that, though.
I haven't done as much testing with the Grotto base but from the look of it I like it. One thing about the Keyrune that I like though is that you can tapout for it with a Far/Away in hand and simply clear their board the turn after. I liked Mutavaults in my old list but that seems greedy to me at this stage. I do like that you only have 6 shocklands though.
Not generally, the idea is to run enough counters/removal that his +1 is not really needed. His mini Fact or Fiction is also kind of redundant with a draw suit of 10+ cards. I'm of the opinion that our permanent slot needs a little more testing though, you can certainly do worse than Jace.
2) Are you guys playing around with any creatures besides AEtherling (and of course now the Keyrune)?
The thing is, there really aren't any other creatures that are worth considering aside from Staticaster out of the board. I can see an argument being made for Stormbreath Dragon to combat W+ based control but Aetherling usually gets there if the Spiral doesn't. Other control lists will have a hard enough time as it is if you run twice the number of draw/counters as them and blank most if not all their removal.
3) Have you settled on a ratio of counters/draw and could you share it?
I'm at 11 draw and I think INS is currently at 10, I could be wrong though.
Currently I'm at 4 Inspiration/4 Augury/1 Thoughtflare and 2 Opportunity. I'd imagine he favors Opportunity more but I'm not going to put words in his mouth.
As for counters we generally agree on the full set of Dissolve and as for me I'd probably settle on that and 2/3 Psychic Strike, 2/3 Essence Scatter and some number of Syncopate.
Hence why I run some number of both, having a backup plan never hurt.
I'm currently on a 2/1 split with Spiral/Aetherling and have been pretty comfortable with that setup. Sure Aetherling seems clunky at times but sometimes you just have to beat people to death.
This. If you want to mill your opponent to death, just use Jace, Memory Adept.
I like him in some number out of the board against lists that are weak to Walkers or where you feel the Spiral might be a tad slow. I wouldn't run more than 2 though.
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
I am really between a rock and a hard place right now with Grixis, but more so control in general. Below is a very small portion of what I sent to INS this morning.
I don't THINK it is the manabase. I mean, besides Anger of the Gods, we are not really playing any mana intense cards really. Besides, we have the scry lands to help "fix" our colors in a sense. The same goes for Keyrunes.
To be honest, I am a bit frustrated with recent testing in general. I know that we both KNOW what and how to make a draw go deck. It is not like this is our first time, but it just does not feel like we are getting there...damn man.
I mean I know that the Scry lands PROBABLY benefit control the most, but it seems that something is still not there.
Lets not even mention the ****ty draw spells we have. Yeah the Steamer is solid for sure, even late game when we have no red, but I really don't like waiting till T6 or T7 for Opportunity. It just feels bad, and if you begin to flood or stumble a bit, you are in deep ****. Inspiration is good. I would not say great, but it is there, it is solid. It gets the job done.
Inspiration is the equivalent to Tom Brady at the moment, it puts the damn team on its back and tries its best to hold it together, but sometimes even that is not enough, hah.
My thought process is this. If we were to go 2 colors, it would fix our ****ty CIPT mana base problem. My question is, is the card pool deep enough to support that?
1. The draw package. Steam Augury is solid, this is for sure. The big question besides that is, what else do we have. Yeah Opportunity, sure, but is that REALLY what we want? I can't stand opening up and seeing one or two of those in my hand. It is pretty much like a mulligan to 6 or 5.
2. Vs. RDW/Rg. Most midrange matchups that I have tested have been pretty solid. We can dominate deck that start "playing" on turn 3+. That is when our counters all become live, and at that point we have had a few turns to "set up" whether it be scry lands or colors etc.
The problem arises when we are up against fast decks. We run somewhere between 13-15 counters, 3-4 finishers, 8-10 draw spells and 26 lands minimum. This leaves us with anywhere from 5-7 spots for spot removal. At times, an opening hand of
Land
Land
Land
Land
Steam Augury
Negate
Dissolve
looks okay, then you either get steam rolled or somehow are able to draw out of it, but then have no real way to gain the life back. Your life total is a resource and Grixis draw go is very rewarding towards players that truly comprehend this, as it has access to the best "removal" in the format. My problem has been even when I stabilize, surviving long enough through the Boros Charms, Searing Spears, Shocks, Haste Dragons etc. Long enough to resolve a lethal/semi lethal spiral or even getting to enough mana to cast and protect both Aetherling and myself.
This is typically what happens when a new format arises. Rx is considered the "best" deck for the first few weeks. Then people tune their lists and it dies.
We know that Wizards has been pushing creature based strats a LOT harder these last few season or so. Yes the power level on them has dropped a lot this set, but the big problem is that controls power level has dropped a lot as well. We no longer have the
Mana Leaks
Path to Exiles
Spell Snares
Cryptic Commands
Snapcaster Mages
of formats past. We have a Cancel that scrys for 1 (which is still solid) or a different version of Broken Ambitions (syncopate.) That, coupled with this being the first set of a new block, and rotation happening, leaves control with some glaring holes. It happens every format, but this time it is even worse than the last few.
Testing has been very disappointing this last week or so, I am going to be honest. Yes we have Anger of the Gods to help with VoR and aggro. It is that I (we) are not losing to the same card every time. Aggro and Midrange just have strictly better tools at the moment, which makes it very hard to tune a control list, let alone a Draw Go list.
The right list is out there, I know it is. The list we had last time thrived off of Snapcaster Mage and Far/Away creating loads of card advantage. I sent off a Novel of information to INS and hopefully, we will be able to pull something from it. I was browsing the "control card list" that we made to include all of RtR and M14. I think there might be a few cards from both Theros and RtR/M14 that we might have overlooked a bit. Hopefully we will be able to find an answer!
** Sorry if this seemed a bit rantish. I wanted to inform everyone truthfully about how things have been going. Feel free to PM me or ask questions, I will be glad to answer!**
Well all the people here believe in this deck, and are making efforts for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
From Supernatural:
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
Yup, G/W Aggro or just White weenies is amazingly overwhelming for this deck. Not even Staticaster will handle it because of Soldier of the Pantheon. Not even ratchet bombs since some lists are actually running Pithing Needle to stop it. Simply nothing we can do.
I'd like to hear from you guys some statistics, what have you played most and what has been the outcome?
Smorgonoff: INS and I believe in this deck as well, which is the main reason I made the post. A few people had contacted me about thoughts on the deck and where our testing at the moment was, so I answered honestly. The right list is out there, we just have not found it yet!
JXX: To be honest, I have not had much trouble with the GW/Mono White matchup really.
Soldier of the Pantheon has not really been that big of a deal. Yes he has protection from Multicolor, but what multicolor spells do we really play that effect him? How has he been testing for you?
Anger of the Gods has been absolutely amazing against them. The fact that it exiles, makes it even happier whenever I am able to hit a voice with it! The current list I have is running 3 in the main, and one in the side. I would want 4 in the 75 somewhere 110%. \
I like the R bombs in the side, and if they are bringing in needle to stop them specifically, well I suppose we have to live with that. It seems pretty weak (bringing in needle) to be honest against us. I would imagine they would rather it be another threat, but eh, that's good for us I suppose.
A card that I am considering going up to three on is Essence Scatter. Nabbing a VoR or early threat in general has been great, and allows more room to breath and get ahead. Being able to stop gods is something INS realized once I mentioned liking the card, and hes right, it has been clutch against the red god.
I have gotten some testing in against BWR midrange (gerryT list), Jund, Junk reanimator and a few random aggro strats. To be honest, most of the midrange games are pretty simple. We really only care about Rakdos's Return and Obzedat/Blood Baron. We can kill Demon or Reckoner/early drops with ease, and out late game is so much better even with the subpar draw that we have.
Did not really have much trouble with Reanimator either. The games I DID lose was to a resolved whip of Erebos. The recursion and card advantage they are able to get with it is amazing. I tested some more against it, and was able to dispatch of the deck pretty easily, once I learned to not let whip hit.
Thanks for the write-up, Hayes. I figured that you and I-N-S were holed up in the virtual bunker over the last few weeks twisting and turning this thing on every angle.
I love the draw-go list, but its seems incredibly fragile from what I've seen so far. Smiter alone is just a son of a ***** to deal with when your only hope is Far/Away. Not to mention the Rakdos or Gruul aggro lists. If we're not on the play with Scatter in hand, it can feel like we've already lost.
One thing I've been tinkering with is a midrangey list for out of the gates that I'm hoping will rapidly evolve into a true control list once the meta inevitably slows down. I think Control is ultimately where we want to be with all these hypothetical midrange lists running around. As you said, if we're up against decks that aren't dropping stuff until turn 3, then we're in good shape.
My Grixis Midrange list looks something like this:
It's still a raw shell and there are some cuts to be made, but its hung in there against G/W and R/G aggro in testing. It can grind out wins against other midrange lists as well. Desecration Demon is just a bomb and plays perfectly with the removal theme of the deck.
The Cerberus is jank, I admit, but it dodges Doom Blade (how's that for a silver lining?) which moderately to mildly negates his MAJOR drawback. I try to hold back with him until their hand has been adequately picked clean and he can close out games quick even with a couple opposing fatties on the board. I get it though, the LAST thing we want to be doing is recurring opposing dead guys back to their owner's hands...unless you're sitting on the Rakdos's Return, of course
Back from Xmasland...Omenspeaker is just a speedbump for the Walkers, and I fooled around with Spike Jester here as well. The rest is standard Grixis fare, just with reduced numbers to fit in the fatties and try to run a spread offense out there.
I get that this list doesn't fit the thread, but I figured if we're all coming to the same conclusion that we're not fast enough as we stand in Draw-Go (where I ultimately want to be), then it might be worth kicking around an adaptation. Never though I'd say this, but I'd give my left nut for a Rewind into Inspiration right about now.
I get that this list doesn't fit the thread, but I figured if we're all coming to the same conclusion that we're not fast enough as we stand in Draw-Go (where I ultimately want to be), then it might be worth kicking around an adaptation. Never though I'd say this, but I'd give my left nut for a Rewind into Inspiration right about now.
Don't worry about conforming your list; just build what you think is best.
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
Underworld Cerebus would seem to be much worse than Master of Cruelties.
Running mill as a win-con is miserable. I'm doing it for UB because "no other good options other than Aetherling". But really, discussing Mind Grind because it's hilarious more than legitimate.
Hero's Downfall isn't great. The only advantage it has over Dreadbore is that you can EoT a planeswalker when the drop him on t3, so they only get 1 activation off. Dreadbore then pseudo taps you out (hope you weren't missing your land drops) but I don't notice a huge difference. Murder didn't see a ton of play in lists. I don't see this as much better.
Someone earlier said that Syncopate is the card to have in our decks. I hated Syncopate this summer. But now I think it's the bomb. I'm not sure why, but I always seem to be able to rip it off for something awesome starting with rotation testing.
Play Devour Flesh. Play more than one. It's good. It won't be obviously good. But work with it a lot and you'll start to see it. t2 Devour Flesh and t3 Away is nuts and you don't even have to worry about rogue monoblack decks. Also, you don't have to freak about Rootborn and Charms with Devour.
I'm considering Quicken for Grixis and it makes me sick.
Quicken is a terrible waste of space. It makes you sick for a reason, you considering it to the point where it makes you sick, makes me sick and it is not because sick people make me sick.
Inspiration is powerful, I don't know why so many people are overlooking it. Inspiration + Steam Augury is the best draw package you are going to get in my opinion.
However, I have been working with the suggested UB base with Grotto lands and fitting in a Revelation's or two does not seem incredibly out of the question to me.
Quicken is a terrible waste of space. It makes you sick for a reason, you considering it to the point where it makes you sick, makes me sick and it is not because sick people make me sick.
Inspiration is powerful, I don't know why so many people are overlooking it. Inspiration + Steam Augury is the best draw package you are going to get in my opinion.
However, I have been working with the suggested UB base with Grotto lands and fitting in a Revelation's or two does not seem incredibly out of the question to me.
If you end up splashing revelation, what would you be using red for?
If you end up splashing revelation, what would you be using red for?
It is a UBx deck, not a UBrw... Augury and Revelations are the two most powerful ways to boost a hand, I am pretty confused by why people want dirt cheap draw when it is not really all that necessary in a format as slow as this one seems to be thus far.
I like the idea of a rainbow tech third color for dumb splashes to silver bullet things idk. Really just theory crafting right now.
2 Aetherling
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Instants (26)
3 Doom Blade
3 Magma Jet
3 Far // Away
2 Essence Scatter
2 Psychic Strike
3 Syncopate
3 Inspiration
2 Opportunity
2 Steam Augury
2 Thoughtflare
Sorceries (5)
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos's Return
Land (26)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
2 Izzet Guildgate
3 Island
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Far//Away
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Magma Jet
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos's Return
3 Thoughtseize
Some comments: Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius has been hit or miss. I've found him quite good in some aggro matchups to close out the game, but obviously kind of lackluster against control. It's arguable that against aggro, he's just a win-more card, but it hasn't always been the case. I may end up cutting him, but who doesn't like drawing cards off him?
As for my draw suite, I'm a huge fan of Thoughtflare despite the drawback. It digs as much as Opportunity for one less mana, but that could always be an argument just to play more Opportunitys considering the net card loss. I haven't tested an additional copy of Steam Augury over 1 Thoughtflare, so I can't comment on that. A fourth Inspiration might just round things out.
The removal package is pretty standard and obviously will be dependent on the metagame, as will the sideboard.
Testing has been great. Esper is a fine match pre-board and gets much better afterward. There hasn't been one dominant aggro deck that I've faced yet, but 14 removal spells along with counters has worked well so far in the general matchup. I'd love to come up with an equally suitable tap-out version running the solid planeswalkers available to Grixis, though, as I think those versions might have a better aggro matchup but a worse control one.
Specter is a bad card, but perfect mana fixing sounds okay to me. The interaction is interesting at least.
While running Grixis, I'm not sure why one would want to run more Inspiration than Steam Augury. In a tap-out build, Inspiration seems much worse.
In a dual colored deck, I can understand Inspiration, but for this shard we've already established that we need a lot of dig.
In my testing for UB, I've found that 4x Inspiration and 2x Opportunity is enough. It's not like we have access to a bunch of cheap cycling or draw that is any good. Grixis gives us Steam Augury but it's not like that lowers our draw curve. Acting like the block decks won't port and that we can have a avg mana cost of 10.5 or whatever is incorrect. The decks will be reasonably fast with little staying power outside of VoR, Rootborn Defenses, and Boros/Golgari Charm. So running 8 draw spells that cost 4 or more mana seems like a bad time. I'd rather just run a full set of Devour Flesh.
Magma Jet has been bleh in testing. It's fine against RDW but sucks against Selesnya and mono-green lists.
I feel that Mind Grind gives us more control since you can just count their lands. Psychic Spiral is a exhausting wait until you get to 25 cards in your graveyard and is dependent on you getting stuff in your gy whereas Mind Grind is dependent on you hitting land drops. Acting like tapping out is a big deal at that point in the game is kind of silly. Either they have the counter or the fattie or they don't. If you're worried about it, leave mana open for a counter. Having tested both, I don't think either Mind Grind or Psychic Spiral is very good. Their impact and the way I end up playing them is virtually the same (although one I can do EoT, big whoop I guess). If you lose a single game, your possibility of going to turns is very high. Nobody likes to play on turns. Neither is MD-able IMO unless you're full blown permission.
I find it interesting how the speed at which the two cards are cast is so heavily considered to be honest.
Generally, Spiral is played EOT at instant speed as kind of a "Hah! Caught you with your pants down" kind of play that can flex itself into dealing with other things first, such as countering an opponent's endgame or buying yourself time with removal.
Spiral is a spell you passively set yourself up for by simply playing your other spells.
Mind Grind is one you are kind of actively setting up by playing your land and feeling out (or securing) your opening.
You really have to play Mind Grind, kind of like you do Rakdos's Return, if you can manage to play to it's strengths and ensure it is doing what it needs to do, it pretty much wins in a single go.
Personally, with things like removal and counter helping me build up a powerful X, and cards like Thoughtseize and Rakdos's Return helping me execute, I find Mind Grind to be more powerful the cards naturally build up to a powerful Mind Grind without ever having to really ever try and force it, where Spiral, if you do not play enough spells, just does not do much at all.
Counting their land also helps me gauge where I am at and I can give myself a time frame in which the game can close, where I cannot really do that as well with Spiral.
He costs a flat 5 so you can have counter mana up
He has 4 loyaty so its and extra 4 life
He tells your opp deal with me or else
Already way better then Mind Grind
Have you guys consider izzet charm in the spiral build... back when RTR first came out I did a spiral grixis with 4 forbidden ,2-3 izzets and 2 lighthouses. We are basically replacing forbidden with Steam Augury
UR Spiral would be viable all by itself but I simply value black removal higher than the versitility offered by red.
I read this a while earlier, but I've had some time to do a little testing where I've drawn and used the Rakdos Keyrunes a few times. So now I think I can speak on it, at least as far as initial testing is concerned.
While Thragtusk was a major reason to run the card, the absence of Thragtusk has nothing to do with its playability. A 3/1 first striker is good at beating a lot of smaller creatures in combat, including Mutavault and most 1-2 drops. It also trades with Reckoner (you take damage, but it's still a solution to a popular and annoying creature). In addition, a 3-powered clock can damage planeswalkers and potentially take them out. With first strike, it has something of evasion--do you chump block it and lose your guy for another turn with a walker (which might just get Hero's Demised), or do you let it through? It's no Creeping Tar Pit...but Creeping Tar Pit was never this good at defending against opposing creatures in combat, either.
I think it would be better to play this card than Chromatic Lantern because this card is more than just mana; it's also a relevant creature. It's not necessarily fantastic, and it does die to removal, but it's relevant. I think if the manabase is designed to consistently get turn 3 Dissolve mana, getting rainbow mana from a 3-drop rock is excessive, so I'd rather just let the card be a faux-manland and help fight mana flood by being a threat/defender sometimes.
I was thinking about something else, too: I don't know about you guys, but I really miss Snapcaster Mage. Having a random dude just to trade in combat and hit walkers...it's convenient. Obviously Rakdos Keyrune doesn't 2-for-1 and get bounced by Far+Away for mega-advantages, but it is a decent little creature that does another job, too. I know we've all really been testing with Ashiok and he's in a sizable number of lists...but I'm starting to find Ashiok lackluster in a large number of test games. The randomness factor is a big problem for that guy. Sometimes, all I really want is to just use my 3-drop to trade efficiently or to stabilize the board. Keyrune looks better than Ashiok, so far.
For reference, my current manabase is:
4 Watery Grave
7 Island
1 Steam Vents
4 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Shimmering Grotto
1 Unkown Shores
3 Rakdos Keyrune
Which comes to 26+3=29 mana sources. That's pretty mana-heavy on paper, but it feels about right, thus far. IDK if I'd go over that, though.
This is because with Steam Augury, unlike Inspiration, you can end up discarding your win conditions (Aetherlings) if you're not playing the Psychic Spiral version of the deck.
This. If you want to mill your opponent to death, just use Jace, Memory Adept.
I figure that if you were cool at this point with sharing your list, you probably already would have done so, but I had a couple Q's:
1) Are you running AoT?
2) Are you guys playing around with any creatures besides AEtherling (and of course now the Keyrune)?
3) Have you settled on a ratio of counters/draw and could you share it?
Non-MTG related, a scary injury to Shady McCoy on Thurs. I was glad to see the man come back in the game. I'm a Chiefs fan and I remember when Jamaal went down week 2 a couple years back with the ACL. Killed the Chiefs season for me and my fantasy squad in 5 secs.
Lot's of fun, pulled foil Xenagos during sealed. Sponsored the first place player, top 8 chopped and I split a box with the guy, pulled foil AotG and Erebos, rest was 2 whips and meh.
As for T2 Grixis, slowly abandoning a lot of red cards in Main, just gonna splash it for Anger of the Gods and Rakdos's Return, also Steam Augury, with Izzet Staticaster in the side.
Cavern is gone, let's take advantage of this fact and run counters. Lots of 'em. Essence Scatter is really good in the main, trumps Gods on the stack. Like INS mentioned, if I remember correctly. I'd rather run 3 AotG than a bunch of 1-for-1 removal that just ends up making me waste cards. Bestow is a thing so let's say trying to Doom Blade a creature that's getting bestowed on isn't favorable.
Enough rambling, sleep, need.
1. I'm not running AoT right now, but he's not a bad option. Mostly I'm trying to make the draw suite work with just instants, but if that fails then I'll probably use AoT.
2. I've steadily had ~3 Notion Thieves in my board, and I've tested with them in the main as well. I think they're a bit too narrow for the maindeck right now, but I was trying them just because I had some space and I wanted to try something proactive (but not sorcery-speed). I've also tested Omenspeaker pretty heavily, but that card is terrible. I don't really know if there are any other creatures I actually want to play...maybe Scavenging Ooze or the new mana tree in a UGx (probably BUG or BUGr) build.
3. The counter suite base I prefer is:
3 Syncopate
2 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Dissolve
4 (Other all-purpose hard counter)
With that last slot being Psychic Strike or Cancel by default, but possibly Render Silent, Counterflux, Plasm Capture, or Mystic Genesis--depending on the splash color(s), the manabase stability/reliability, and the deck's overall gameplan. I think 15 counters is the prefered number, but you could probably go down to 13-14 if you really wanted. And if you play Thoughtflare, theoretically I could see a 4th Syncopate and/or more Essence Scatter/Negate/Izzet Charm, as all of those conditional counters get a lot better when you can throw them away later.
I think in the board, Gainsay is the best card for control mirrors. Dispel is good against those decks and also good against GW decks because it counters their Wurms and SCharms as well as Rootbound Defenses in key situations (depending on your removal suite; if you play 4 Far/Away then you just $#!% all over that stupid GW deck and you don't need Dispel at all). Annul is also a very, very good counterspell. That 4/2 flash green creature is going to see a lot of play just because it's an efficient body and it's a flash threat, even if it almost never gets bestowed onto another dude. Annul counters that, the gods (even though the B and W ones are the only relevant ones), Underworld Connections, and a few random other things.
As far as draw goes, right now I'm using:
4 Inspiration
4 Steam Augury
2 Opportunity
In that UBr shell with 4 scry lands and 4 Dissolve for extra filtering. I play 2 Spirals and 1 Aetherling right now, though I'm trying to cut that down.
Yeah, me too. Shady McCoy is my favorite player on offense (my favorite player is Troy Polamalu), and I happen to have invested the first pick on him in both my fantasy leagues. I was having all kinds of heart palpitations halfway through that game....
Yeah, that Chiefs season a year or two ago...that was upsetting to watch. It wasn't just Charles, it was also like 9-10 starters gone, no quarterback, and Todd Haley ruining a good team. (Now that guy's screwing up my Steelers' offense!) That happens to a team or two each season, but usually not so much because of so many injuries...and it wasn't like they were in a rebuilding year or the Suck for Luck kind of situation.
I know how that goes. I don't think there's a card tournament or event I've been to where I wasn't sleep-deprived.
I'm with you: 15+ counters or bust. The only thing that would stop me from play a ton of counters is if there's some kind of combo deck...I go where the draw spells are.
Right now, I'm trying to make red a light splash and focus more on UB with Augury, but something on my list of stuff to test is Anger of the Gods+Quicken. I know a lot of people don't like Quicken because it's a little random when it shows up, and it does have downsides in that you have to choose when to cycle it. But I think Quicken might open up some things: instant 4-mana board wipe, instant versions of some sorcery draw spells (not stupid Divination, but perhaps Read the Bones or Uncovered Clues), and maybe something else that's relevant. There is also something to be said for having cantrips in a deck with scrylands.
The tough problem with Anger of the Gods is that it only works well with Dissolve when you are almost straight UR, if not completely devoid of a third color. But that means your spot removal spells are terrible. It's a mess.
My comment was mostly in context of our mana though, if you can reliably activate him with your mana setup then he is straight up better the Lantern.
I haven't done as much testing with the Grotto base but from the look of it I like it. One thing about the Keyrune that I like though is that you can tapout for it with a Far/Away in hand and simply clear their board the turn after. I liked Mutavaults in my old list but that seems greedy to me at this stage. I do like that you only have 6 shocklands though.
Not generally, the idea is to run enough counters/removal that his +1 is not really needed. His mini Fact or Fiction is also kind of redundant with a draw suit of 10+ cards. I'm of the opinion that our permanent slot needs a little more testing though, you can certainly do worse than Jace.
The thing is, there really aren't any other creatures that are worth considering aside from Staticaster out of the board. I can see an argument being made for Stormbreath Dragon to combat W+ based control but Aetherling usually gets there if the Spiral doesn't. Other control lists will have a hard enough time as it is if you run twice the number of draw/counters as them and blank most if not all their removal.
I'm at 11 draw and I think INS is currently at 10, I could be wrong though.
Currently I'm at 4 Inspiration/4 Augury/1 Thoughtflare and 2 Opportunity. I'd imagine he favors Opportunity more but I'm not going to put words in his mouth.
As for counters we generally agree on the full set of Dissolve and as for me I'd probably settle on that and 2/3 Psychic Strike, 2/3 Essence Scatter and some number of Syncopate.
Hence why I run some number of both, having a backup plan never hurt.
I'm currently on a 2/1 split with Spiral/Aetherling and have been pretty comfortable with that setup. Sure Aetherling seems clunky at times but sometimes you just have to beat people to death.
I like him in some number out of the board against lists that are weak to Walkers or where you feel the Spiral might be a tad slow. I wouldn't run more than 2 though.
edit: ^nathed
4 Watery Grave
7 Island
1 Steam Vents
4 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Shimmering Grotto
1 Unkown Shores
3 Syncopate
2 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Dissolve
4 (Other all-purpose hard counter)
4 Inspiration
4 Steam Augury
2 Opportunity
2 Psychic spyral
3 far//away
2 things
1) truth be told i'm aggro player inside, so i see risky only 2 creatures as finishers.
2) what other counter are available in standard?
3) will the lack of mass removal be felt(Anger of the goose)?
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
As for Curse of Bacon...its a pretty sub par card, Id advise against it.
I am really between a rock and a hard place right now with Grixis, but more so control in general. Below is a very small portion of what I sent to INS this morning.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I don't THINK it is the manabase. I mean, besides Anger of the Gods, we are not really playing any mana intense cards really. Besides, we have the scry lands to help "fix" our colors in a sense. The same goes for Keyrunes.
To be honest, I am a bit frustrated with recent testing in general. I know that we both KNOW what and how to make a draw go deck. It is not like this is our first time, but it just does not feel like we are getting there...damn man.
I mean I know that the Scry lands PROBABLY benefit control the most, but it seems that something is still not there.
Lets not even mention the ****ty draw spells we have. Yeah the Steamer is solid for sure, even late game when we have no red, but I really don't like waiting till T6 or T7 for Opportunity. It just feels bad, and if you begin to flood or stumble a bit, you are in deep ****. Inspiration is good. I would not say great, but it is there, it is solid. It gets the job done.
Inspiration is the equivalent to Tom Brady at the moment, it puts the damn team on its back and tries its best to hold it together, but sometimes even that is not enough, hah.
My thought process is this. If we were to go 2 colors, it would fix our ****ty CIPT mana base problem. My question is, is the card pool deep enough to support that?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Here are my concerns with Grixis at the moment.
1. The draw package. Steam Augury is solid, this is for sure. The big question besides that is, what else do we have. Yeah Opportunity, sure, but is that REALLY what we want? I can't stand opening up and seeing one or two of those in my hand. It is pretty much like a mulligan to 6 or 5.
2. Vs. RDW/Rg. Most midrange matchups that I have tested have been pretty solid. We can dominate deck that start "playing" on turn 3+. That is when our counters all become live, and at that point we have had a few turns to "set up" whether it be scry lands or colors etc.
The problem arises when we are up against fast decks. We run somewhere between 13-15 counters, 3-4 finishers, 8-10 draw spells and 26 lands minimum. This leaves us with anywhere from 5-7 spots for spot removal. At times, an opening hand of
Land
Land
Land
Land
Steam Augury
Negate
Dissolve
looks okay, then you either get steam rolled or somehow are able to draw out of it, but then have no real way to gain the life back. Your life total is a resource and Grixis draw go is very rewarding towards players that truly comprehend this, as it has access to the best "removal" in the format. My problem has been even when I stabilize, surviving long enough through the Boros Charms, Searing Spears, Shocks, Haste Dragons etc. Long enough to resolve a lethal/semi lethal spiral or even getting to enough mana to cast and protect both Aetherling and myself.
This is typically what happens when a new format arises. Rx is considered the "best" deck for the first few weeks. Then people tune their lists and it dies.
We know that Wizards has been pushing creature based strats a LOT harder these last few season or so. Yes the power level on them has dropped a lot this set, but the big problem is that controls power level has dropped a lot as well. We no longer have the
Mana Leaks
Path to Exiles
Spell Snares
Cryptic Commands
Snapcaster Mages
of formats past. We have a Cancel that scrys for 1 (which is still solid) or a different version of Broken Ambitions (syncopate.) That, coupled with this being the first set of a new block, and rotation happening, leaves control with some glaring holes. It happens every format, but this time it is even worse than the last few.
Testing has been very disappointing this last week or so, I am going to be honest. Yes we have Anger of the Gods to help with VoR and aggro. It is that I (we) are not losing to the same card every time. Aggro and Midrange just have strictly better tools at the moment, which makes it very hard to tune a control list, let alone a Draw Go list.
The right list is out there, I know it is. The list we had last time thrived off of Snapcaster Mage and Far/Away creating loads of card advantage. I sent off a Novel of information to INS and hopefully, we will be able to pull something from it. I was browsing the "control card list" that we made to include all of RtR and M14. I think there might be a few cards from both Theros and RtR/M14 that we might have overlooked a bit. Hopefully we will be able to find an answer!
** Sorry if this seemed a bit rantish. I wanted to inform everyone truthfully about how things have been going. Feel free to PM me or ask questions, I will be glad to answer!**
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
I'd like to hear from you guys some statistics, what have you played most and what has been the outcome?
JXX: To be honest, I have not had much trouble with the GW/Mono White matchup really.
Soldier of the Pantheon has not really been that big of a deal. Yes he has protection from Multicolor, but what multicolor spells do we really play that effect him? How has he been testing for you?
Anger of the Gods has been absolutely amazing against them. The fact that it exiles, makes it even happier whenever I am able to hit a voice with it! The current list I have is running 3 in the main, and one in the side. I would want 4 in the 75 somewhere 110%. \
I like the R bombs in the side, and if they are bringing in needle to stop them specifically, well I suppose we have to live with that. It seems pretty weak (bringing in needle) to be honest against us. I would imagine they would rather it be another threat, but eh, that's good for us I suppose.
A card that I am considering going up to three on is Essence Scatter. Nabbing a VoR or early threat in general has been great, and allows more room to breath and get ahead. Being able to stop gods is something INS realized once I mentioned liking the card, and hes right, it has been clutch against the red god.
I have gotten some testing in against BWR midrange (gerryT list), Jund, Junk reanimator and a few random aggro strats. To be honest, most of the midrange games are pretty simple. We really only care about Rakdos's Return and Obzedat/Blood Baron. We can kill Demon or Reckoner/early drops with ease, and out late game is so much better even with the subpar draw that we have.
Did not really have much trouble with Reanimator either. The games I DID lose was to a resolved whip of Erebos. The recursion and card advantage they are able to get with it is amazing. I tested some more against it, and was able to dispatch of the deck pretty easily, once I learned to not let whip hit.
I love the draw-go list, but its seems incredibly fragile from what I've seen so far. Smiter alone is just a son of a ***** to deal with when your only hope is Far/Away. Not to mention the Rakdos or Gruul aggro lists. If we're not on the play with Scatter in hand, it can feel like we've already lost.
One thing I've been tinkering with is a midrangey list for out of the gates that I'm hoping will rapidly evolve into a true control list once the meta inevitably slows down. I think Control is ultimately where we want to be with all these hypothetical midrange lists running around. As you said, if we're up against decks that aren't dropping stuff until turn 3, then we're in good shape.
My Grixis Midrange list looks something like this:
4x Desecration demon
4x omenspeaker
2x underworld Cerberus
Removal/Sweepers:
3x anger of the gods
1x devour flesh
3x Doom blade
2x far //away
2x hero's downfall
2x ashiok, nightmare weaver
2x jace, architect of thought
Counters/Draw:
3x Steam Augury
2x Dissolve
2x Syncopate
2x Rakdos's return
2x thoughtseize
It's still a raw shell and there are some cuts to be made, but its hung in there against G/W and R/G aggro in testing. It can grind out wins against other midrange lists as well. Desecration Demon is just a bomb and plays perfectly with the removal theme of the deck.
The Cerberus is jank, I admit, but it dodges Doom Blade (how's that for a silver lining?) which moderately to mildly negates his MAJOR drawback. I try to hold back with him until their hand has been adequately picked clean and he can close out games quick even with a couple opposing fatties on the board. I get it though, the LAST thing we want to be doing is recurring opposing dead guys back to their owner's hands...unless you're sitting on the Rakdos's Return, of course
Back from Xmasland...Omenspeaker is just a speedbump for the Walkers, and I fooled around with Spike Jester here as well. The rest is standard Grixis fare, just with reduced numbers to fit in the fatties and try to run a spread offense out there.
I get that this list doesn't fit the thread, but I figured if we're all coming to the same conclusion that we're not fast enough as we stand in Draw-Go (where I ultimately want to be), then it might be worth kicking around an adaptation. Never though I'd say this, but I'd give my left nut for a Rewind into Inspiration right about now.
Don't worry about conforming your list; just build what you think is best.
PS: thank for being absent lightning mauler, we miss you our beloved snapcaster mage
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
Running mill as a win-con is miserable. I'm doing it for UB because "no other good options other than Aetherling". But really, discussing Mind Grind because it's hilarious more than legitimate.
Hero's Downfall isn't great. The only advantage it has over Dreadbore is that you can EoT a planeswalker when the drop him on t3, so they only get 1 activation off. Dreadbore then pseudo taps you out (hope you weren't missing your land drops) but I don't notice a huge difference. Murder didn't see a ton of play in lists. I don't see this as much better.
Someone earlier said that Syncopate is the card to have in our decks. I hated Syncopate this summer. But now I think it's the bomb. I'm not sure why, but I always seem to be able to rip it off for something awesome starting with rotation testing.
Play Devour Flesh. Play more than one. It's good. It won't be obviously good. But work with it a lot and you'll start to see it. t2 Devour Flesh and t3 Away is nuts and you don't even have to worry about rogue monoblack decks. Also, you don't have to freak about Rootborn and Charms with Devour.
I'm considering Quicken for Grixis and it makes me sick.
Inspiration is powerful, I don't know why so many people are overlooking it. Inspiration + Steam Augury is the best draw package you are going to get in my opinion.
However, I have been working with the suggested UB base with Grotto lands and fitting in a Revelation's or two does not seem incredibly out of the question to me.
If you end up splashing revelation, what would you be using red for?
It is a UBx deck, not a UBrw... Augury and Revelations are the two most powerful ways to boost a hand, I am pretty confused by why people want dirt cheap draw when it is not really all that necessary in a format as slow as this one seems to be thus far.
I like the idea of a rainbow tech third color for dumb splashes to silver bullet things idk. Really just theory crafting right now.