Ran the B/r devo list this weekend but lost round 4 to the Grixis devo list, for those interested.
His list faired very well against the mid-range/control room. The pilot told me he had Rakdos's Returned for 3-4 wins up until round 4. However, burn and aggro were non-existent in the room (maybe 4 decks out of 36), which skewed everybody's results.
It's a good list -- especially when preying on mid-range and control lists. I'm almost certain, however, that aggro is not a good time.
Can't believe they didn't do a cheap draw spell or something like Preordain in a scry set..And annoying that the black wrath we finally got costs 6.
Yeah I don't think we got much. The land should be good as a 1-2 of, The god doesn't seem bad but he's basically a turn 5 do nothing. Magma Spray is pretty great, but we have Shock already and the exile isn't that relevant except vs VoR, which Anger of the Gods is already fine for.
Gild seems better than Silence the Believers, IMO. The board wipe is awful, and cost a ton of mana just to not even for sure kill everything they have (doesn't hit Enchantment creatures, which are sure to see more play with Journey). Sigiled Starfish may be okay, but I'm not sure we want to use a slot for it, and Nightmarish End is useless, since we never played Warped anyway.
So overall...I don't think we got much from that, which is really unfortunate.
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Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I'm wondering if Battlefield Thurmaturge could fit.
Thurmaturge is...awkward. It seems fine against the aggressive decks until you realize the cards best against them either:
1) Costs one mana, think Skock and Magma Spray
2) Kills your own Thurmaturge and doesn't target anything anyway, ( Drown in Sorrow/Anger of the Gods )
3) Could have been better utilized if you held mana open as opposed to dropping a creature that you obviously don't intent to trade with.
He seems good against the Midrange decks since most of them are slow enough that doing nothing on your second turn won't matter and generally they won't or can't interact with him. The problem then becomes Mono Black and UWx. Against Mono black he's...pretty terrible while against UWx he offers little if any usage other than being a bear and that just seems unacceptable to me. I could see him working in these colors if Mono B and UWx weren't a thing but honestly speaking he's probably just better in a Heroic deck as opposed to a Control based one.
Now Disciple of Deceit on the other hand...now there's a card I'm actually excited about.
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Edit: The idea I had tumbling around in my head was to combine Battlefield Thurmaturge, Curse of the Swine, and Bile Blight to get a 1-sided exhile all creatures. I guess it's too complicated now that I think about it, but I've not been happy with Anger of the Gods as our sweeper.
I will instead focus on the new Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix, which could be quite fun with 4 Notion Thief. Also, instead of Divination and/or Inspiration, Font of Fortunes seems like a better card, since in a desperate situation you can pop it on turn 3 (4) while still leaving up (1) 2 mana for a counter.
Pin to the Earth is a nice new semi-removal for mono-blue, and may be a way for us to play control while increasing devotion. It may be that we can actually use Gods instead of PWs in a control shell. I will certainly experiment in that direction.
Silence the Believers is better than Gild simply on account of being an instant. I can see it as a one-of in my deck.
In red, Dictate of the Twin Gods may be used if you are on the controlled burn path. It does make your Lightning Strike and Rakdos's Return that more painful. The down-side is of course that it works both ways. Magma Spray is obviously a much better Shock for us, which already saw play to shore up the aggro match-up, and Spite of Mogis could be quite powerful in a control deck.
Disciple of Deceit screams "build around me", but I am not quite sure how to most profitably and reliably tap/un-tap her. Keranos, God of Storms might see some play, but it is dangerous to tap out on turn 5, so only play-testing will tell how good it is. It is for sure the only God that has a planeswalker feeling to it. Stormchaser Chimera is laughably bad. Given the story-line, I don't see how they could fail so badly.
We're finally getting the UR land in Temple of Epiphany. We're also getting a decent multi-land in Mana Confluence. I would warn against using too many of them though, we are already taxed quite heavily on shock-lands.
In conclusion, I am unfortunately not too exited about Grixis. We've now had two blocks where our main axes have been lackluster. In Return to Ravnica, Dimir's role as the "mill your opponent" color hurt us a lot. In Theros, both UB and UR seems to be at a much lower overall power-level than the rest of the color combinations. There are no better control cards than Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict, and with Oblivion Ring 2.0, there is now no better color than white (and blue/white) for removal. If I had to rank targeted removal as a whole, I would rank it: Banishing Light > Detention Sphere > Chained to the Rocks > Hero's Downfall > Dreadbore.
So, with white as the best control color - I will most likely either turn to Esper or UWR (most likely splashing one extra color for Rakdos's Return).
The issues I've had so far are lifegain and draw that fits the pace of our deck.
Regarding card draw, I'm excited to at least try out Keranos, God of Storms. It is an indestructible CA engine that fits our deck well. True, I'm not thrilled about tapping out on t5, but with the threat of an extra card or 3 damage the next turn, I'm feeling fairly confident that we will have answers to what they drop.
Regarding lifegain, I started throwing an elixir or 2 in my brews. Anyone else see some solid options for our lifegain?
The rest of the deck is changeable, cuttable, tweekable...
Notes: Keranos - Seriously, I think this card is amazing. At worst case it's drawing you the land on top helping to keep dropping fuel for Returns/Rifts, but then you get an additional card after that. Best case it's a Lightning Bolt that can either kill a lot of Creatures or hit your opponent. In situations where your hand is emptied and you're in top deck mode, top deck a Keranos, play it, and it helps you to power back into games. I have very little intention or need to wake up Keranos, but it does/can happen any number of ways.
Thassa - It's cute synergy, that's all it is. Thassa's ability triggers in the Upkeep while Keranos' ability triggers in the Draw. These 2 combined creates some amazing things. Thassa is nice because it drops on Turn 3 to help smooth out your earlier turns, but by no means is she necessary. Thassa is easier to activate, and her ability if you for example snag good creatures from Ashiok or have Keranos activated making things unblockable for a powerful finish. I don't know how much I like Thassa or think it's needed, I didn't put it in the core list of cards though because it's really not needed, but it's pretty powerful when they both are going.
Claustrophobia - It's strange, I actually really like this utility... It maybe very bad, it may turn out to be decent tech. The UU does help to activate both Gods. I also like the idea of playing Claustrophobia on a Master of the Feast, all the advantage none of the pain.
AEtherling VS Niv-Mizzet - AEtherling hands down is the best right now! It's insanely hard to deal with, half the time you cast it leaving U sources up it garners a concede from your opponent. AEtherling is just a powerhouse and can quickly finish games. I've also tried this list simply replacing AEtherling with Niv and it's still be surprisingly effective. Niv synergizes more with either God, Keranos specifically and he's a nice draw engine on his own on top of the ability of dealing direct damage to things. AEtherling though is still overall a stronger option.
Cyclonic Rift + Rakdos's Return - This is starting to be a pretty potent and powerful combination. Grixis has issues dealing with some permanents, and Rift is just one of those limited ways we can deal with them. However; Rifting my Opponents board for Overload only to take my turn and then wipe their hand has proven to be a solid option.
Ashiok - Still love me some Ashiok. I think combined with Discard, Counters, the hate that Ashiok packs is understated. I've found Ashiok to be a valuable tool in all my matchups, used in different ways I admit depending upon the matchup, but very valuable tool. Even VS Control, milling is one thing but the fact the MILL 3 is Exiled I think is huge! With such hate cards now like Banishing Light and Deicide, people aren't going to be packing 4 of each of those on top of 4 Spheres. You'll see 1's and 2's here and there, so with Ashiok, milling/exiling away those specialized tools, or win conditions, while being able to Thoughtseize/Rakdos's Return/Counter away the ones that are drawn, I think this is a direction Grixis absolutely must go to help protect the plan.
Few Other Cards I've Toyed With: Chandra - Mostly for her +1, she makes a creature not able to block while pinging more damage to my opponent. Kills a lot of creatures, while her Synergy with Keranos is pretty good. Chandra + Keranos that tops a spell deals 4 Damage per turn to either a creature or player. Chandra's RR helps to get Keranos awaken while her +1 ping makes it so a creature can't block Keranos. There's a lot of synergy, but I opted to cut Chandra after awhile. I think she can be a strong player with Grixis Keranos though.
Ral Zarek - Another interesting option, but I felt it wasn't as good as Chandra. Again, does a lot of the things that Chandra does for Grixis Keranos, but Ral is a Down Tick instead of an up tick. But the ability to hit for 6 on some turns combined when Keranos tops a Spell is nice. I didn't find Zarek's tap ability to be all that useful and so he was one of the earlier cuts. It came in handy sometimes, tapping down my opponents creature to get through Keranos or other creatures that maybe Ashiok plucked away or something. Untapping one of my lands to give me 1 bigger Return or to hit Overloaded Rifts. It had it's moments, but for the most part Chandra was just better.
Few Other Cards I Still Might Try: Frostburn Weird - I could see this guy making a comeback to Grixis builds. He lends his casting cost to the Keranos Devotion while playing nice early defense for the planeswalker options. I am perfectly fine however running a God that I have little to no intention of waking up, to me waking up the God makes it more susceptible to hate cards. Keranos is definitely one of those Gods that is highly useful without ever waking him up. SO I don't know that I want to go the Frostburn Weird route.
Dictate of the Twin Gods - The red Dictate seems fun and interesting, but doubtful that it fits, way too cute.
It's still up in the air what direction I want to take Keranos Grixis Control, but I think at this point I've proven atleast to myself that it can be legit if I find the right combination.
If nothing else, maybe this is a deck that is a flash in the pain, it's a 1 hitta quitta... it'll surprise everyone for a few weeks, then get largely hated out and it'll be come a pile... I don't know the answer to that...
Personally I would drop Thassa and Claustrophobia and would would most likely beat Mana Confluence away with a stick. The idea to splash R isn't wrong but do remember that cutting off red like that drastically worsens your aggro MU.
As for Keranos, I'm still skeptical. Don't get me wrong I want to like him but all that I keep seeing being played over in my head is the following scenario:
And that is just too disgusting a play to even think about. I am making slightly of a bold but not baseless prediction that the meta moving forward will be initially comprised of UWx variants, Mono B Devotion, Mono Black Aggro, Wx/Bx Aggro. Theoretically Mana Confluence should make more dual and even tri colored archetypes viable but I simply cannot see decks such as GW, GR, Naya, or any other Gx based list taking off against a field that has been so hostile against them in the past months and I don't see it getting better for those colors either.
If it was me, and this is just preference, I would lean much harder on red than I have been up to now. Having access to 8 Shock effects on top of Anger of the Gods gives us a legitimate angle to attack the aggro decks of the format, while also opening up a unique way to combat Control via a more Couterflux/Counterburn route . I can see GRx Monsters declining and non Bx Midrange decks simply being too slow or easily hated out and if that's the case, I think we can be in a great place. Stormbreath Dragon is fantastic against the Wx lists while also actually just giving us a way to realistically close out games in a timely matter. Sure it's bad against Mono B...but that's about it. I'd keep an eye on this card most of all.
Ashiok is actually quite instrumental in the current Block format since barring Thoughtseize or a timely Downfall, Reanimator/Dredge and most of the creature based decks simply cannot beat that card when backed by removal. I might have been harsh on Ashiok this standard season but neither the environment or the deck has been ready for a card that has largely been as inconsistent as it has been irrelevant.
Obviously I'd like to see how the format turns out initially but I'm carefully optimistic. That said the lack of a better variety of finishers and no lifegain might still be too big of a hurdle to realistically climb but we'll wait and see I guess.
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I love Keranos. But as The Other Guy said, Deicide is going to be very real, and rampant in SB, so I don't want to put too much stock in Gods right now. Playing him turn 5 only to have him get stripped from the whole deck for 2 mana is rough, and playing him turn 7 to keep up a Negate or something is also not that great. However, he seem ridiculously powerful if they don't have the removal. It may be worth keeping 2 in the main, but siding it out against any white decks, just as a precaution so we don't get blown out.
As said before, I think Font of Fortunes has some interesting applications. It's a decent turn 2 play, and since it can be used at instant speed, we can use it in more of a counter-heavy/draw-go shell. I definitely like it a lot better than Divination, since that card always felt really awkward in Grixis. But maybe Quicken is still just better, especially if we play Anger of the Gods or even Spite of Mogis.
I think Grixis got some interesting cards from Journey, though they aren't fantastic. However, building the deck very differently than we previously have (like emphasizing burn as said before) been could yield some interesting results.
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Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I think you guys might be over-hyping Deicide. Extraction isn't a huge deal unless you're seriously dependent on that one card to win, which control lists are not. It's not even card disadvantage unless you had another copy in your hand. Sure it's a pain knowing you won't be able to draw him anymore this game, but they could just as easily be on the bottom of your deck and you never draw them anyway.
That said, here's a list totally built around turning on Keranos. I should not upfront that I have not been playing Grixis and this is all theorycraft and not tested in any way. I have played both mono-black and a couple control variants, so I'm not coming in completely blind.
No creatures to blank all creature removal (Aetherling doesn't count). Very heavy on Gods and Walkers, both to turn on Gods and to heavily tax opponents' Downfalls and D-Spheres. Chandra is probably the worst of the walkers, but I'm going to give her a shot.
Izzet Charm ought to be good against some of the aggro decks that are going to come out based on the RW and BW gods; any of them should have lots of x/1s and x/2s. Mutavault as well.
I went with Quicken over Divination because of the possibility for draw step Thoughtseize shenanigans.
It may turn out that with so many permanents (and Chandra) that I can't really play counterspells, in which case I may go more aggressive with Rakdos Keyrunes and burn. Possibly even a 1-of Dictate of the Twin Gods
The problem with Deicide isn't the extraction effect (though that does give them a 2+ for one card anyway), it's the fact that we spend our whole turn dropping Keranos, and then they get to spend two mana to exile him, giving them the opportunity to A: see our hand, which is usually pretty bad for us, and B: see our deck, which is also really really bad for us. Giving away that information has always been a very powerful and undervalued effect of extraction cards. Based on all of that info, your opponent can then make a follow up play (since Deicide is only a 2 drop) that is going to be most effective due to knowing what you have in your hand and have access to.
Now all that being said, if we only run Keranos as a 2 of and no other Gods, there is a chance that they won't even bother bringing in Deicide since only having one God in our deck probably doesn't warrant such a narrow card, especially since we really don't run many other enchantments anyway. But it is worth considering all the factors that such a powerful card brings to the table.
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I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I love Keranos. But as The Other Guy said, Deicide is going to be very real, and rampant in SB, so I don't want to put too much stock in Gods right now. Playing him turn 5 only to have him get stripped from the whole deck for 2 mana is rough, and playing him turn 7 to keep up a Negate or something is also not that great. However, he seem ridiculously powerful if they don't have the removal. It may be worth keeping 2 in the main, but siding it out against any white decks, just as a precaution so we don't get blown out.
As said before, I think Font of Fortunes has some interesting applications. It's a decent turn 2 play, and since it can be used at instant speed, we can use it in more of a counter-heavy/draw-go shell. I definitely like it a lot better than Divination, since that card always felt really awkward in Grixis. But maybe Quicken is still just better, especially if we play Anger of the Gods or even Spite of Mogis.
I think Grixis got some interesting cards from Journey, though they aren't fantastic. However, building the deck very differently than we previously have (like emphasizing burn as said before) been could yield some interesting results.
I think you guys might be over-hyping Deicide. Extraction isn't a huge deal unless you're seriously dependent on that one card to win, which control lists are not. It's not even card disadvantage unless you had another copy in your hand. Sure it's a pain knowing you won't be able to draw him anymore this game, but they could just as easily be on the bottom of your deck and you never draw them anyway.
That said, here's a list totally built around turning on Keranos. I should not upfront that I have not been playing Grixis and this is all theorycraft and not tested in any way. I have played both mono-black and a couple control variants, so I'm not coming in completely blind.
No creatures to blank all creature removal (Aetherling doesn't count). Very heavy on Gods and Walkers, both to turn on Gods and to heavily tax opponents' Downfalls and D-Spheres. Chandra is probably the worst of the walkers, but I'm going to give her a shot.
Izzet Charm ought to be good against some of the aggro decks that are going to come out based on the RW and BW gods; any of them should have lots of x/1s and x/2s. Mutavault as well.
I went with Quicken over Divination because of the possibility for draw step Thoughtseize shenanigans.
It may turn out that with so many permanents (and Chandra) that I can't really play counterspells, in which case I may go more aggressive with Rakdos Keyrunes and burn. Possibly even a 1-of Dictate of the Twin Gods
Personally I would drop Thassa and Claustrophobia and would would most likely beat Mana Confluence away with a stick. The idea to splash R isn't wrong but do remember that cutting off red like that drastically worsens your aggro MU.
As for Keranos, I'm still skeptical. Don't get me wrong I want to like him but all that I keep seeing being played over in my head is the following scenario:
And that is just too disgusting a play to even think about. I am making slightly of a bold but not baseless prediction that the meta moving forward will be initially comprised of UWx variants, Mono B Devotion, Mono Black Aggro, Wx/Bx Aggro. Theoretically Mana Confluence should make more dual and even tri colored archetypes viable but I simply cannot see decks such as GW, GR, Naya, or any other Gx based list taking off against a field that has been so hostile against them in the past months and I don't see it getting better for those colors either.
If it was me, and this is just preference, I would lean much harder on red than I have been up to now. Having access to 8 Shock effects on top of Anger of the Gods gives us a legitimate angle to attack the aggro decks of the format, while also opening up a unique way to combat Control via a more Couterflux/Counterburn route . I can see GRx Monsters declining and non Bx Midrange decks simply being too slow or easily hated out and if that's the case, I think we can be in a great place. Stormbreath Dragon is fantastic against the Wx lists while also actually just giving us a way to realistically close out games in a timely matter. Sure it's bad against Mono B...but that's about it. I'd keep an eye on this card most of all.
Ashiok is actually quite instrumental in the current Block format since barring Thoughtseize or a timely Downfall, Reanimator/Dredge and most of the creature based decks simply cannot beat that card when backed by removal. I might have been harsh on Ashiok this standard season but neither the environment or the deck has been ready for a card that has largely been as inconsistent as it has been irrelevant.
Obviously I'd like to see how the format turns out initially but I'm carefully optimistic. That said the lack of a better variety of finishers and no lifegain might still be too big of a hurdle to realistically climb but we'll wait and see I guess.
The problem with Deicide isn't the extraction effect (though that does give them a 2+ for one card anyway), it's the fact that we spend our whole turn dropping Keranos, and then they get to spend two mana to exile him, giving them the opportunity to A: see our hand, which is usually pretty bad for us, and B: see our deck, which is also really really bad for us. Giving away that information has always been a very powerful and undervalued effect of extraction cards. Based on all of that info, your opponent can then make a follow up play (since Deicide is only a 2 drop) that is going to be most effective due to knowing what you have in your hand and have access to.
Now all that being said, if we only run Keranos as a 2 of and no other Gods, there is a chance that they won't even bother bringing in Deicide since only having one God in our deck probably doesn't warrant such a narrow card, especially since we really don't run many other enchantments anyway. But it is worth considering all the factors that such a powerful card brings to the table.
I think you all are over thinking the Deicide problem...
First:
My list wasn't built around Keranos. Keranos is just yet another way to finish games and win, and also break up stalled games. I have little intention to activating the God and attacking with him; I say little because at times it does happen and it does make for powerful finishes when it does.
Second:
A lot can be said with the early game... Thoughtseize, Counterspells, and playing Rakdos's Return. Not to mention Ashiok. I've already been play testing against other test decks, ones running 4 Deicide and that's a bit overkill. Most decks will be running 2 to 3 Deicide, doubtful that you'll see 4 in there along with D.Sphere, Revoke, Banishing Light (New ORING). You'll see decks with onesies and twosies here and there. So Ashiok puts in early work pulling answers out of the game, while Thoughtseize, Duress, Rakdos's Return, Counterspells clean up the rest. At the end of the day, they have to have Deicide to play it against you...
Third:
Keranos is really the real deal... I play tested against UW Control /w Journey, I played against Esper last week. Each about 10 to 15 games. The only one that gave me problems was Esper as they have their own Disruption. Even then the games were still pretty favorable. There was a few games where we both stripped each others hands, and as soon as I drop Keranos if it lasted 1 Turn which generally it did when my opponent was in Top Deck mode; it quickly got me back in games. The Thassa + Keranos is insanely quick to get you back in games that have stalled out and become a top deck game.
Now with all this being said, I've been playtesting this deck and variations ever since Keranos was spoiled. So for a few weeks... The win % is encouraging; enough so that I'm going to keep rolling with this.
And who knows, maybe I'm saying Keranos is only good with the support backing it up: Ashiok, Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return.... All of which are cards I would be running anyways, so whats the difference?
Also, by no means is my list a final list... it was merely a test deck that has shown to be effective so far. It'll change a bit here and there.
The problem with Deicide isn't the extraction effect (though that does give them a 2+ for one card anyway), it's the fact that we spend our whole turn dropping Keranos, and then they get to spend two mana to exile him, giving them the opportunity to A: see our hand, which is usually pretty bad for us, and B: see our deck, which is also really really bad for us. Giving away that information has always been a very powerful and undervalued effect of extraction cards. Based on all of that info, your opponent can then make a follow up play (since Deicide is only a 2 drop) that is going to be most effective due to knowing what you have in your hand and have access to.
Now all that being said, if we only run Keranos as a 2 of and no other Gods, there is a chance that they won't even bother bringing in Deicide since only having one God in our deck probably doesn't warrant such a narrow card, especially since we really don't run many other enchantments anyway. But it is worth considering all the factors that such a powerful card brings to the table.
That's a fair point, but Revoke Existence was already available. All the same arguments applied there, Deicide only upgrades it to instant (which makes Dispel more relevant for us incidentally). I think the majority of control decks are Esper as well, meaning they have Thoughtseize for the information. And most good opponents would be able to guess 85%+ of your deck by the fifth turn, even as a somewhat rogue deck; so looking through the exact list, while bad, is not the huge disadvantage you make it out to be.
I just don't consider "dies to removal" as an argument that a card is bad because everything dies to some kind of removal. Any other threat you would run in that spot dies to D-Sphere just as easily, or Hero's Downfall if it's a creature or planeswalker. Or still Deicide if it's an enchantment.
Don't get me wrong, in excited by the implications of Keranos. He seems like a great card. But I'm cautiously optimistic since I think the meta is going to shift to a lot of W/x decks, which will probably push the density of Gods out of play. That's actually really good for us, since gods are hard for our colors to deal with anyway. Once that meta shift happens, it will quickly self correct and Deicide won't be played as much and then Gods will creep into relevance again. It's a pretty common trend whenever 'hate' cards have been printed. Seeing these meta shifts are going to dictate whether Keranos should be played or not. I think he's great, I just don't like getting blown out by one card, especially since we have such a small yet premium selection of win cons anyway.
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I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
@MrRotten can you post a current list and general ideas behind certain picks? I have been in and out of Grixis because of placement of the deck maybe now it might be in a better place than before. I been using white/ blue aggro mid range deck it's been very strong so far 2 Fnm's undefeated the deck's posted in epharra aggro. Anyway I've always liked grixis colors and I'd like to see your current list so I can test it at my local store Wed, and Thursday im hoping to bring back test results for everyone before Friday so we can have a tier 1 rogue deck because right now I believe the flavor of the month is b/W,Mud,Mbd,u/w control and aggro types, Esper, and a few junk decks. Our deck can be the rogue that steals top spot.
So after some testing, I think I'm going to try mainboarding 4x Pin to the Earth as a main form of pseudo-removal.
Pros:
It's 2 CMC
It hits most relevant threats in the game - all low CMC dudes, Desecration Demon, will help turn Master of the Feast into pure advantage (if he catches on), etc.
@Outcryqq, I think instead of "pseudo-removal", you can just, you know, run removal.
@Rotten
We can agree to disagree then. I'm not disagreeing with your card choices because I think they are bad, merely because I think they are bad for me, both from a play style and a meta viewpoint. My local meta and most state tournaments I've been too have simply been too focused on streamlined aggro decks and the usual Mono Black, Mono blue and UWx affair. Additionally I'm of the opinion that Banishing Light is absolutely huge and than anyone not expecting an uptick of Wx based/splashed strategies, control AND aggro alike, is in for a big surprise. Again, if that works for you then all the best to you, but I simply cannot justify running a list that soft to aggro myself, especially considering the hostile metagame I'm expecting.
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@TheOtherGuy: guess I was trying to think of a cheap way to deal with creatures that isn't situational. You know, like doom blade, devour flesh, ultimate price, all burn.
Dreadbore isn't situational, is in our colors, hits the same targets + walkers at the same speed and is only a little more difficult to cast. Pin to the Earth is interesting but Dreadbore just beats it out if you want non situational removal at sorcery speed.
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I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Blood Baron is still a real thing to consider. I think you do want to have some kind of non-black removal. I'm not saying Pin to the Earth is the right one, but someone might as well try it. Personally I would probably go with Mortars, but there are things it isn't enough for.
I still like far//away but I also like silence the believers. Anger has not been performing for me lately. Although maybe there will be more agro at least in the beginning.
I like keranos as a threat. I saw a list that pat Chapin posted under the premium scg content.
What is the general consensus on staying control vs midrange. It looks like small changes to the previous hard times.
are we going to have to side in cremates because of the UW god?
I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty bummed we didn't get anything huge for grixis...
If anyone does a lot of playtesting with Keranos, please post it. I'll always be checking in on the grixis thread hoping something will spark my interest to build another grixis deck, but for now I will be messing around with my BUG Duskmantle Seer deck that has been pretty fun to play so far.
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His list faired very well against the mid-range/control room. The pilot told me he had Rakdos's Returned for 3-4 wins up until round 4. However, burn and aggro were non-existent in the room (maybe 4 decks out of 36), which skewed everybody's results.
It's a good list -- especially when preying on mid-range and control lists. I'm almost certain, however, that aggro is not a good time.
Sigiled Starfish: ???
Extinguish All Hope: We finally have a wrath, even if it's not great, at least it's something. I'm sure they could have printed it at 4 CMC though >_<
Nightmarish End: A second Warped Physique that costs more.
Silence the Believers: Might be relevant, but does cost a lot of mana.
Magma Spray: Should be good for us.
Keranos, God of Storms: Will never be active, but drawing a card or a Lightning Bolt each turn doesn't sound too bad.
Mana Confluence: More mana fixing.
Temple of Epiphany: We now have all 3 of our scry lands.
Can't believe they didn't do a cheap draw spell or something like Preordain in a scry set..And annoying that the black wrath we finally got costs 6.
Yeah I don't think we got much. The land should be good as a 1-2 of, The god doesn't seem bad but he's basically a turn 5 do nothing. Magma Spray is pretty great, but we have Shock already and the exile isn't that relevant except vs VoR, which Anger of the Gods is already fine for.
Gild seems better than Silence the Believers, IMO. The board wipe is awful, and cost a ton of mana just to not even for sure kill everything they have (doesn't hit Enchantment creatures, which are sure to see more play with Journey). Sigiled Starfish may be okay, but I'm not sure we want to use a slot for it, and Nightmarish End is useless, since we never played Warped anyway.
So overall...I don't think we got much from that, which is really unfortunate.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThurmaturge is...awkward. It seems fine against the aggressive decks until you realize the cards best against them either:
1) Costs one mana, think Skock and Magma Spray
2) Kills your own Thurmaturge and doesn't target anything anyway, ( Drown in Sorrow/Anger of the Gods )
3) Could have been better utilized if you held mana open as opposed to dropping a creature that you obviously don't intent to trade with.
He seems good against the Midrange decks since most of them are slow enough that doing nothing on your second turn won't matter and generally they won't or can't interact with him. The problem then becomes Mono Black and UWx. Against Mono black he's...pretty terrible while against UWx he offers little if any usage other than being a bear and that just seems unacceptable to me. I could see him working in these colors if Mono B and UWx weren't a thing but honestly speaking he's probably just better in a Heroic deck as opposed to a Control based one.
Now Disciple of Deceit on the other hand...now there's a card I'm actually excited about.
Edit: The idea I had tumbling around in my head was to combine Battlefield Thurmaturge, Curse of the Swine, and Bile Blight to get a 1-sided exhile all creatures. I guess it's too complicated now that I think about it, but I've not been happy with Anger of the Gods as our sweeper.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI will instead focus on the new Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix, which could be quite fun with 4 Notion Thief. Also, instead of Divination and/or Inspiration, Font of Fortunes seems like a better card, since in a desperate situation you can pop it on turn 3 (4) while still leaving up (1) 2 mana for a counter.
Pin to the Earth is a nice new semi-removal for mono-blue, and may be a way for us to play control while increasing devotion. It may be that we can actually use Gods instead of PWs in a control shell. I will certainly experiment in that direction.
Silence the Believers is better than Gild simply on account of being an instant. I can see it as a one-of in my deck.
In red, Dictate of the Twin Gods may be used if you are on the controlled burn path. It does make your Lightning Strike and Rakdos's Return that more painful. The down-side is of course that it works both ways. Magma Spray is obviously a much better Shock for us, which already saw play to shore up the aggro match-up, and Spite of Mogis could be quite powerful in a control deck.
Disciple of Deceit screams "build around me", but I am not quite sure how to most profitably and reliably tap/un-tap her. Keranos, God of Storms might see some play, but it is dangerous to tap out on turn 5, so only play-testing will tell how good it is. It is for sure the only God that has a planeswalker feeling to it. Stormchaser Chimera is laughably bad. Given the story-line, I don't see how they could fail so badly.
We're finally getting the UR land in Temple of Epiphany. We're also getting a decent multi-land in Mana Confluence. I would warn against using too many of them though, we are already taxed quite heavily on shock-lands.
In conclusion, I am unfortunately not too exited about Grixis. We've now had two blocks where our main axes have been lackluster. In Return to Ravnica, Dimir's role as the "mill your opponent" color hurt us a lot. In Theros, both UB and UR seems to be at a much lower overall power-level than the rest of the color combinations. There are no better control cards than Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict, and with Oblivion Ring 2.0, there is now no better color than white (and blue/white) for removal. If I had to rank targeted removal as a whole, I would rank it: Banishing Light > Detention Sphere > Chained to the Rocks > Hero's Downfall > Dreadbore.
So, with white as the best control color - I will most likely either turn to Esper or UWR (most likely splashing one extra color for Rakdos's Return).
Even though I don't like it much, Anger of the Gods is still a strong sweeper. Our targeted removal is great (Far, Turn, Doom Blade). We have access to countermagic. Our hand disruption is fantastic (Rakdos's Return, Thoughtseize).
The issues I've had so far are lifegain and draw that fits the pace of our deck.
Regarding card draw, I'm excited to at least try out Keranos, God of Storms. It is an indestructible CA engine that fits our deck well. True, I'm not thrilled about tapping out on t5, but with the threat of an extra card or 3 damage the next turn, I'm feeling fairly confident that we will have answers to what they drop.
Regarding lifegain, I started throwing an elixir or 2 in my brews. Anyone else see some solid options for our lifegain?
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsIt's a very good card!!!
I know the concerns, tapping out on Turn 5 for it, but it doesn't have to be looked at as that.
It catches up immediately once you've had a turn like that.
I still don't have the answers for the perfect list, or the perfect removal package, and how many sweepers we need... what the format will look like.
I've played with Keranos and I assure you, it's a very good card!
Here's the list I've been play testing and so far the only decks I've had some trouble against is Boros.
I've play tested Black Devotion, Blue Devotion, BR Midrange, BW Midrange, among other various aggro decks. I have an insane win % against them all.
Granted, none of those decks ran any Journey yet, I was running Journey, so the matches could be deemed a bit skewed.
However; I think the high win % against these decks proves that Keranos can work if nothing else.
2 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 AEtherling
Spells: 20
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Dreadbore
3 Devour Flesh
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Dissolve
2 Opportunity
2 Claustrophobia
1 Elixir of Immortality
Planeswalkers: 7
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Lands: 26
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Epiphany
1 Mana Confluence
4 Island
4 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Far//Away
2 Turn//Burn
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
4 Negate
1 Slaughter Games
2 Duress
This whole deck, including the sideboard is just a TEST DECK.
By no means is most of this deck or card choices final.
The only pieces that I know I absolutely want is:
The rest of the deck is changeable, cuttable, tweekable...
Notes:
Keranos - Seriously, I think this card is amazing. At worst case it's drawing you the land on top helping to keep dropping fuel for Returns/Rifts, but then you get an additional card after that. Best case it's a Lightning Bolt that can either kill a lot of Creatures or hit your opponent. In situations where your hand is emptied and you're in top deck mode, top deck a Keranos, play it, and it helps you to power back into games. I have very little intention or need to wake up Keranos, but it does/can happen any number of ways.
Thassa - It's cute synergy, that's all it is. Thassa's ability triggers in the Upkeep while Keranos' ability triggers in the Draw. These 2 combined creates some amazing things. Thassa is nice because it drops on Turn 3 to help smooth out your earlier turns, but by no means is she necessary. Thassa is easier to activate, and her ability if you for example snag good creatures from Ashiok or have Keranos activated making things unblockable for a powerful finish. I don't know how much I like Thassa or think it's needed, I didn't put it in the core list of cards though because it's really not needed, but it's pretty powerful when they both are going.
Claustrophobia - It's strange, I actually really like this utility... It maybe very bad, it may turn out to be decent tech. The UU does help to activate both Gods. I also like the idea of playing Claustrophobia on a Master of the Feast, all the advantage none of the pain.
AEtherling VS Niv-Mizzet - AEtherling hands down is the best right now! It's insanely hard to deal with, half the time you cast it leaving U sources up it garners a concede from your opponent. AEtherling is just a powerhouse and can quickly finish games. I've also tried this list simply replacing AEtherling with Niv and it's still be surprisingly effective. Niv synergizes more with either God, Keranos specifically and he's a nice draw engine on his own on top of the ability of dealing direct damage to things. AEtherling though is still overall a stronger option.
Cyclonic Rift + Rakdos's Return - This is starting to be a pretty potent and powerful combination. Grixis has issues dealing with some permanents, and Rift is just one of those limited ways we can deal with them. However; Rifting my Opponents board for Overload only to take my turn and then wipe their hand has proven to be a solid option.
Ashiok - Still love me some Ashiok. I think combined with Discard, Counters, the hate that Ashiok packs is understated. I've found Ashiok to be a valuable tool in all my matchups, used in different ways I admit depending upon the matchup, but very valuable tool. Even VS Control, milling is one thing but the fact the MILL 3 is Exiled I think is huge! With such hate cards now like Banishing Light and Deicide, people aren't going to be packing 4 of each of those on top of 4 Spheres. You'll see 1's and 2's here and there, so with Ashiok, milling/exiling away those specialized tools, or win conditions, while being able to Thoughtseize/Rakdos's Return/Counter away the ones that are drawn, I think this is a direction Grixis absolutely must go to help protect the plan.
Few Other Cards I've Toyed With:
Chandra - Mostly for her +1, she makes a creature not able to block while pinging more damage to my opponent. Kills a lot of creatures, while her Synergy with Keranos is pretty good. Chandra + Keranos that tops a spell deals 4 Damage per turn to either a creature or player. Chandra's RR helps to get Keranos awaken while her +1 ping makes it so a creature can't block Keranos. There's a lot of synergy, but I opted to cut Chandra after awhile. I think she can be a strong player with Grixis Keranos though.
Ral Zarek - Another interesting option, but I felt it wasn't as good as Chandra. Again, does a lot of the things that Chandra does for Grixis Keranos, but Ral is a Down Tick instead of an up tick. But the ability to hit for 6 on some turns combined when Keranos tops a Spell is nice. I didn't find Zarek's tap ability to be all that useful and so he was one of the earlier cuts. It came in handy sometimes, tapping down my opponents creature to get through Keranos or other creatures that maybe Ashiok plucked away or something. Untapping one of my lands to give me 1 bigger Return or to hit Overloaded Rifts. It had it's moments, but for the most part Chandra was just better.
Few Other Cards I Still Might Try:
Frostburn Weird - I could see this guy making a comeback to Grixis builds. He lends his casting cost to the Keranos Devotion while playing nice early defense for the planeswalker options. I am perfectly fine however running a God that I have little to no intention of waking up, to me waking up the God makes it more susceptible to hate cards. Keranos is definitely one of those Gods that is highly useful without ever waking him up. SO I don't know that I want to go the Frostburn Weird route.
Dictate of the Twin Gods - The red Dictate seems fun and interesting, but doubtful that it fits, way too cute.
It's still up in the air what direction I want to take Keranos Grixis Control, but I think at this point I've proven atleast to myself that it can be legit if I find the right combination.
If nothing else, maybe this is a deck that is a flash in the pain, it's a 1 hitta quitta... it'll surprise everyone for a few weeks, then get largely hated out and it'll be come a pile... I don't know the answer to that...
But Keranos feels like the real deal!
As for Keranos, I'm still skeptical. Don't get me wrong I want to like him but all that I keep seeing being played over in my head is the following scenario:
Keranos < Deicide
And that is just too disgusting a play to even think about. I am making slightly of a bold but not baseless prediction that the meta moving forward will be initially comprised of UWx variants, Mono B Devotion, Mono Black Aggro, Wx/Bx Aggro. Theoretically Mana Confluence should make more dual and even tri colored archetypes viable but I simply cannot see decks such as GW, GR, Naya, or any other Gx based list taking off against a field that has been so hostile against them in the past months and I don't see it getting better for those colors either.
If it was me, and this is just preference, I would lean much harder on red than I have been up to now. Having access to 8 Shock effects on top of Anger of the Gods gives us a legitimate angle to attack the aggro decks of the format, while also opening up a unique way to combat Control via a more Couterflux/Counterburn route . I can see GRx Monsters declining and non Bx Midrange decks simply being too slow or easily hated out and if that's the case, I think we can be in a great place. Stormbreath Dragon is fantastic against the Wx lists while also actually just giving us a way to realistically close out games in a timely matter. Sure it's bad against Mono B...but that's about it. I'd keep an eye on this card most of all.
Ashiok is actually quite instrumental in the current Block format since barring Thoughtseize or a timely Downfall, Reanimator/Dredge and most of the creature based decks simply cannot beat that card when backed by removal. I might have been harsh on Ashiok this standard season but neither the environment or the deck has been ready for a card that has largely been as inconsistent as it has been irrelevant.
Obviously I'd like to see how the format turns out initially but I'm carefully optimistic. That said the lack of a better variety of finishers and no lifegain might still be too big of a hurdle to realistically climb but we'll wait and see I guess.
As said before, I think Font of Fortunes has some interesting applications. It's a decent turn 2 play, and since it can be used at instant speed, we can use it in more of a counter-heavy/draw-go shell. I definitely like it a lot better than Divination, since that card always felt really awkward in Grixis. But maybe Quicken is still just better, especially if we play Anger of the Gods or even Spite of Mogis.
I think Grixis got some interesting cards from Journey, though they aren't fantastic. However, building the deck very differently than we previously have (like emphasizing burn as said before) been could yield some interesting results.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
That said, here's a list totally built around turning on Keranos. I should not upfront that I have not been playing Grixis and this is all theorycraft and not tested in any way. I have played both mono-black and a couple control variants, so I'm not coming in completely blind.
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Ral Zarek
1 Chandra Pyromaster
1 Aetherling
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Izzet Charm
3 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Quicken
1 Rakdos's Return
No creatures to blank all creature removal (Aetherling doesn't count). Very heavy on Gods and Walkers, both to turn on Gods and to heavily tax opponents' Downfalls and D-Spheres. Chandra is probably the worst of the walkers, but I'm going to give her a shot.
Izzet Charm ought to be good against some of the aggro decks that are going to come out based on the RW and BW gods; any of them should have lots of x/1s and x/2s. Mutavault as well.
I went with Quicken over Divination because of the possibility for draw step Thoughtseize shenanigans.
It may turn out that with so many permanents (and Chandra) that I can't really play counterspells, in which case I may go more aggressive with Rakdos Keyrunes and burn. Possibly even a 1-of Dictate of the Twin Gods
Now all that being said, if we only run Keranos as a 2 of and no other Gods, there is a chance that they won't even bother bringing in Deicide since only having one God in our deck probably doesn't warrant such a narrow card, especially since we really don't run many other enchantments anyway. But it is worth considering all the factors that such a powerful card brings to the table.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I think you all are over thinking the Deicide problem...
First:
My list wasn't built around Keranos. Keranos is just yet another way to finish games and win, and also break up stalled games. I have little intention to activating the God and attacking with him; I say little because at times it does happen and it does make for powerful finishes when it does.
Second:
A lot can be said with the early game... Thoughtseize, Counterspells, and playing Rakdos's Return. Not to mention Ashiok. I've already been play testing against other test decks, ones running 4 Deicide and that's a bit overkill. Most decks will be running 2 to 3 Deicide, doubtful that you'll see 4 in there along with D.Sphere, Revoke, Banishing Light (New ORING). You'll see decks with onesies and twosies here and there. So Ashiok puts in early work pulling answers out of the game, while Thoughtseize, Duress, Rakdos's Return, Counterspells clean up the rest. At the end of the day, they have to have Deicide to play it against you...
Third:
Keranos is really the real deal... I play tested against UW Control /w Journey, I played against Esper last week. Each about 10 to 15 games. The only one that gave me problems was Esper as they have their own Disruption. Even then the games were still pretty favorable. There was a few games where we both stripped each others hands, and as soon as I drop Keranos if it lasted 1 Turn which generally it did when my opponent was in Top Deck mode; it quickly got me back in games. The Thassa + Keranos is insanely quick to get you back in games that have stalled out and become a top deck game.
Now with all this being said, I've been playtesting this deck and variations ever since Keranos was spoiled. So for a few weeks... The win % is encouraging; enough so that I'm going to keep rolling with this.
And who knows, maybe I'm saying Keranos is only good with the support backing it up: Ashiok, Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return.... All of which are cards I would be running anyways, so whats the difference?
Also, by no means is my list a final list... it was merely a test deck that has shown to be effective so far. It'll change a bit here and there.
That's a fair point, but Revoke Existence was already available. All the same arguments applied there, Deicide only upgrades it to instant (which makes Dispel more relevant for us incidentally). I think the majority of control decks are Esper as well, meaning they have Thoughtseize for the information. And most good opponents would be able to guess 85%+ of your deck by the fifth turn, even as a somewhat rogue deck; so looking through the exact list, while bad, is not the huge disadvantage you make it out to be.
I just don't consider "dies to removal" as an argument that a card is bad because everything dies to some kind of removal. Any other threat you would run in that spot dies to D-Sphere just as easily, or Hero's Downfall if it's a creature or planeswalker. Or still Deicide if it's an enchantment.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Pros:
What do you guys/gals think?
Edit: Grammar
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears@Rotten
We can agree to disagree then. I'm not disagreeing with your card choices because I think they are bad, merely because I think they are bad for me, both from a play style and a meta viewpoint. My local meta and most state tournaments I've been too have simply been too focused on streamlined aggro decks and the usual Mono Black, Mono blue and UWx affair. Additionally I'm of the opinion that Banishing Light is absolutely huge and than anyone not expecting an uptick of Wx based/splashed strategies, control AND aggro alike, is in for a big surprise. Again, if that works for you then all the best to you, but I simply cannot justify running a list that soft to aggro myself, especially considering the hostile metagame I'm expecting.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsSorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I still like far//away but I also like silence the believers. Anger has not been performing for me lately. Although maybe there will be more agro at least in the beginning.
I like keranos as a threat. I saw a list that pat Chapin posted under the premium scg content.
What is the general consensus on staying control vs midrange. It looks like small changes to the previous hard times.
are we going to have to side in cremates because of the UW god?
If anyone does a lot of playtesting with Keranos, please post it. I'll always be checking in on the grixis thread hoping something will spark my interest to build another grixis deck, but for now I will be messing around with my BUG Duskmantle Seer deck that has been pretty fun to play so far.