So far in testing I have yet to miss having TS in my 75. Sin Collector and Lifebane Zombie have been much better for me since they exile the targets I want to get rid of. So far testing is going well with the list I am tuning up for SCG Knoxville. I'm also not running Ajani right now and the deck is still absolutely solid.
I went a Disappointing (to me at least) 5-4 at SCG Knoxville Open yesterday. I won't go into detail as after 9 rounds, for once, I don't remember much.
Round 1 vs American Control (2-0)
Now I do remember this one a little bit. Junk did it's thing and just played so smooth and my opponent was a good guy. Didn't once get frustrated. Didn't once do anything wrong what so ever. I won the match we were still talking and signed the slip and I turned it in. When time for round two came up I seen I had zero points. But some others were disputing their loss of points despite winning too. We got it all fixed my opponent was honest and told the judges I had won our match and they fixed the points.
Round 2 vs. Junk Hexproof (2-0)
My opponent was a player from our LGS. He's is a very quiet, reserved guy and our games were somewhat close, especially game two. Abrupt decay was excellent here.
Round 3 vs. The Mirror (2-0)
All I can say is Advent of the wurm does a lot of work in the mirror. At least in all my experience with the match.
Round 4 vs. Camden adkins(#12 on SCG player leader board) Esper Control (0-2)
His deck had every answer to what I had. It was control so that happens. I played as best as one should in this match( even the opinion of my opponent) and I started bricking on draws eventually and my opponent continued find answers. It happens. But Camden was a lot of fun to play against. Very Animated. Nice guy.
Round 5 vs. RW Burn (0-2)
The games weren't very fun. My opponent just pretty much ignored what I did and fished the match...(RW Burn, possibly the new boogey man???)
Round 6 vs. B/W Midrange (2-1)
This is a friend of mine. We only see each at events like Opens, PTQs IQs....but the guy is really cool and we get a long great. There was a point I tried to draw a card with Scry trigger on the stack and I thought I had Courser on the field( I had previously)and it was an honest mistake and we both weren't dead certain what should happen. We agreed it was best to call a judge. Game two he thoughtseized me and seen my hand was lands and removal for anything and everything. He thought he was the removal heavy deck. He got this game after we went into topdecking. Game 3 he kept a risky but solid hand if he drew one more white source. He drew it too late in typical MTG fashion.
Round 7 vs U/w Devotion (2-1)
I don't remember much here other than I realized again, after so long, How much I dislike Thassa when she is animated. I found a way around it all to take the match though.
So I'm feeling good here. I'm confident I can go without a loss the last two rounds. My deck is solid and I can do this. Magic had different plans.
Round 8 vs. American Control (0-2)
My opponent was extremely quiet. Didn't communicate well. Half the time I never knew he passed the turn back or anything. Aetherling was the linchpin in this match for him. Just resolve aetherling late. I can't interact. GGs.
Now, I am not raging here when I say this. In no way what so ever am I upset I lost or that my opponent won. No.. I am upset with WOTC. Why?
It seems after we had the highly skill intensive, arguably most powerful control deck in standard history, the dreaded Cawblade. WOTC decided to make control much easier to play, yet oppressive. This is coming from someone who is a Blue player at heart. It seems anybody can pick up a control deck now. Play verdict turn 4. Turn 5 at the latest if your opponent has a slow start. Follow up with Jace. Then Revelation. Play Elspeth. WIN! The control decks are SO easy to play now it's not even funny. The only time I ever lose with a control deck is if I keep the 3 lander with Verdict or the 4 lander with Jace, Dsphere and hoping for that Verdict. Enough of this rant. I am just sad about this because like I said, I am a control player at heart and when the deck because so linear to me and I find playing Midrange decks more intuitive and fulfilling it is saddening. For me atleast. Done.... Moving on....
Round 9 vs. Mono Blue Devotion (1-2)
Yes. It still exists. Game one he clobbered me. Game two was extremely close. Game 3. I controlled the board hard. Everything of his of relevance died. Then he plays Thassa. Begins scrying. Junk is slow. So he had a bit of time to catch up. Suddenly down comes a Tidebinder. Lock down your 5/5 wurm. Down comes NIghtveil. Thassa is alive! Attack!.
Then it was all about unblockable creatures after that. GGs though. Unlike those non-interactive burn decks.
My friend Jamie made it in to top 8 at 3rd place. I congratulate him many times and my night of Magic is over.
Looking ahead with the breakout deck, despite Burn winning it all, being Brave Naya. It may not be so bad to pack a couple of Drown in sorrow now. Just a thought.
Also, how has everyone else been faring against burn? In testing I was excellent. In Knoxville I was just incinerated!
I went a Disappointing (to me at least) 5-4 at SCG Knoxville Open yesterday. I won't go into detail as after 9 rounds, for once, I don't remember much.
Round 1 vs American Control (2-0)
Now I do remember this one a little bit. Junk did it's thing and just played so smooth and my opponent was a good guy. Didn't once get frustrated. Didn't once do anything wrong what so ever. I won the match we were still talking and signed the slip and I turned it in. When time for round two came up I seen I had zero points. But some others were disputing their loss of points despite winning too. We got it all fixed my opponent was honest and told the judges I had won our match and they fixed the points.
Round 2 vs. Junk Hexproof (2-0)
My opponent was a player from our LGS. He's is a very quiet, reserved guy and our games were somewhat close, especially game two. Abrupt decay was excellent here.
Round 3 vs. The Mirror (2-0)
All I can say is Advent of the wurm does a lot of work in the mirror. At least in all my experience with the match.
Round 4 vs. Camden adkins(#12 on SCG player leader board) Esper Control (0-2)
His deck had every answer to what I had. It was control so that happens. I played as best as one should in this match( even the opinion of my opponent) and I started bricking on draws eventually and my opponent continued find answers. It happens. But Camden was a lot of fun to play against. Very Animated. Nice guy.
Round 5 vs. RW Burn (0-2)
The games weren't very fun. My opponent just pretty much ignored what I did and fished the match...(RW Burn, possibly the new boogey man???)
Round 6 vs. B/W Midrange (2-1)
This is a friend of mine. We only see each at events like Opens, PTQs IQs....but the guy is really cool and we get a long great. There was a point I tried to draw a card with Scry trigger on the stack and I thought I had Courser on the field( I had previously)and it was an honest mistake and we both weren't dead certain what should happen. We agreed it was best to call a judge. Game two he thoughtseized me and seen my hand was lands and removal for anything and everything. He thought he was the removal heavy deck. He got this game after we went into topdecking. Game 3 he kept a risky but solid hand if he drew one more white source. He drew it too late in typical MTG fashion.
Round 7 vs U/w Devotion (2-1)
I don't remember much here other than I realized again, after so long, How much I dislike Thassa when she is animated. I found a way around it all to take the match though.
So I'm feeling good here. I'm confident I can go without a loss the last two rounds. My deck is solid and I can do this. Magic had different plans.
Round 8 vs. American Control (0-2)
My opponent was extremely quiet. Didn't communicate well. Half the time I never knew he passed the turn back or anything. Aetherling was the linchpin in this match for him. Just resolve aetherling late. I can't interact. GGs.
Now, I am not raging here when I say this. In no way what so ever am I upset I lost or that my opponent won. No.. I am upset with WOTC. Why?
It seems after we had the highly skill intensive, arguably most powerful control deck in standard history, the dreaded Cawblade. WOTC decided to make control much easier to play, yet oppressive. This is coming from someone who is a Blue player at heart. It seems anybody can pick up a control deck now. Play verdict turn 4. Turn 5 at the latest if your opponent has a slow start. Follow up with Jace. Then Revelation. Play Elspeth. WIN! The control decks are SO easy to play now it's not even funny. The only time I ever lose with a control deck is if I keep the 3 lander with Verdict or the 4 lander with Jace, Dsphere and hoping for that Verdict. Enough of this rant. I am just sad about this because like I said, I am a control player at heart and when the deck because so linear to me and I find playing Midrange decks more intuitive and fulfilling it is saddening. For me atleast. Done.... Moving on....
Round 9 vs. Mono Blue Devotion (1-2)
Yes. It still exists. Game one he clobbered me. Game two was extremely close. Game 3. I controlled the board hard. Everything of his of relevance died. Then he plays Thassa. Begins scrying. Junk is slow. So he had a bit of time to catch up. Suddenly down comes a Tidebinder. Lock down your 5/5 wurm. Down comes NIghtveil. Thassa is alive! Attack!.
Then it was all about unblockable creatures after that. GGs though. Unlike those non-interactive burn decks.
My friend Jamie made it in to top 8 at 3rd place. I congratulate him many times and my night of Magic is over.
Looking ahead with the breakout deck, despite Burn winning it all, being Brave Naya. It may not be so bad to pack a couple of Drown in sorrow now. Just a thought.
Also, how has everyone else been faring against burn? In testing I was excellent. In Knoxville I was just incinerated!
Thats magic sometimes, everyone has to concede to the power of the top deck. In reguards to RW burn, junk is probably its hardest matchup. I know if i played a RW burn deck, i wouldnt want to play again a life gain deck. Courser, scooze, BB, archangel, ramp and ghost dad? Playing in the color of whips? Yea, even though you lost which just happens, you're still in a very different place than most other decks in that matchup.
Maybe I was just unlucky. When I played against Burn yesterday my opponent had skullcrack for every lifegain trigger I had. Wasn't my match to take. I am honestly more worried about this Brave Naya though. Deck looked fearsome.
Also I was considering putting thoughtseize back in the main, I played Hoogland's updated list yesterday. Now I am not so sure on TS since some of the winnning lists, which we know everyone will be playing the finalists decks, are just so fast that every bit of life we can preserve is important.
I totally agree about your argument against control. I just got back into Standard when DGM came out and figured id pick up UW since I have played UW before and there were alot of powerful cards. I cant stand playing it, it is just so boring to me. I have picked up almost every card and will be playing either JUNK or Monoblack.
I totally agree about your argument against control. I just got back into Standard when DGM came out and figured id pick up UW since I have played UW before and there were alot of powerful cards. I cant stand playing it, it is just so boring to me. I have picked up almost every card and will be playing either JUNK or Monoblack.
Well a midrange deck like Junk is an excellent option if you enjoy control but want to make skilled decisions. I have enjoyed playing midrange more since last year than I control deck.
What does everybody expect the meta to look like at States? Given the result of Knoxville this weekend I think it will see a lot more of a breakout from Naya and Burn. Control will likely squeeze in there still with some Mono Black. But the question is how to tune Junk?
I don't agree with TS main anymore with two fast decks like Naya and Burn in the format. Also all day when I brought TS in from the board vs. control I wished it was a Mistcutter Hydra. That wins games. I drew a TS vs Cam Adkins and had it been the Hydra I would've won. Right there I realized I needed Hydra. TS actually underperformed all day for me.
Has anyone else seen Kibler's version of this deck? He takes out the majority of the 5 drops and advent. Replaces advent with 2 Polukranos and 2 Reaper of the wilds. Adds a 2nd Elspeth and brings four TS back to the main deck. If anyone else has seen this, what are your thoughts on Kibler's approach?
With Mono-Blue Devotion apparently no longer a thing, I would be pretty reluctant to play Polly over Advent. Trample and Flash are better than a situational mana-sink ability against most other decks (the argument that the instant speed isn't useful unless you have other EOT options strikes me as off-base; aggro pilots are rarely going to refuse to attack into open mana, and you're winning if they do).
I played in Tennessee States yesterday hosted by SCG. I went 4-3. The only time I lost was when I just drew dead or missed land drops. Otherwise this deck did exactly what it was supposed to do. I had an opponent remark that my courser had to be the most spot on courser. Draw action. Land off the top. Trigger. Underworld another spell of the top. Repeat every turn.
My list Varies a bit from todays norm of what Junk typically looks like too. The changes I felt were for the better for yesterday. Well.....for the most part.
I think my changes going forward is going to be -2 Polukrano and -1 courser, + 3 advent of the wurm.
I also feel the mana base holds this deck back from time to time. We would be much better served reworking our mana with some more basics of shocks. I would rather not shock myself all the time if possible.
maybe a mana base like this?
??? I don't know. I just want to improve this deck as much as possible. There are a lot of people I've talked to that agree that while Hoogland's list is solid, it isn't as great as it could possibly be.
I play with sin collector maindeck like Hoogland's revised list and so far sin collector has always managed to exile something. Furthermore, the information gained helps a lot. This gives me a much better G1 against control. Even against aggro like white weenie, I've been consistently able to exile something, like Brave the Elements.
Played Hooglins list at states, biggest problem i found was that i couldnt beat control. although i did beat Cedric Philips round 1 =)
This is exactly how I feel too. I just can't seem to beat control unless I'm extremely lucky they don't draw an abundance of counter and Revelations. I am very frustrated with the deck lately. It seems that I get a good start vs control and then something happens and I just can't close a game.
I've been toying with the idea of 2x Golgari Charm main deck. Could be a good early sweeper against weenie and monoU, destroys enchantments, is very relevant against control. It even acts as removal against enchantment critters that are cropping up left and right.
Thoughts?
Edit: Thinking about going 0x Thoughtseize MD and 4x side, here's my current 75 for reference:
For people who run Vraska, is she really worth it? I have run a second Blood Baron or a second Elspeth, either of which can be great. Vraska, however, I have been confused by. Anyone care to explain?
hi all i'm playing Hoogland newer list and i did cut Vraska and sin to put the 2 Golgari Charm in the main and now run 3 sins and a Athreos in the side. i just want to know what people think
I advocate replacing 1 or 2 Caryatids with Gyre Sage mainboard. Not Gyre sage as a sideboard.
For a midrange deck to beat Esper Control, you need to start chipping away at the opponent's life total as soon as possible so that when your finally manage to resolve a big creature like Wurm/Obzedat, the opponent has a 2 turn clock and not a 4 turn clock.
Early pressure also maximises the benefits of an early thoughtseize and sin collector. No point stripping his hand if he's allowed time to rebuild.
Why not just try Loxodon Smiter or Fleecemane Lion for early pressure then?
The Gyre sage could perform the secondary function of providing mana in case you miss the 5th land drop if you're playing the list with loads of 5 drops (and Elspeth).
For lists that drop Ajani MOH (I don't have Ajani MOH so I play without it) and have a lower curve, that's a very valid question - why not play with 3 or fewer Caryatids and you can put in a Voice/Lion (tho' both can't block Soldier of Pantheon).
Gyre Sage and Blinking Obzedat is a fun combo for FNM....
Loss one: Brave Naya 1-2 (on the play)
G1: On the play means I try to stabilise at 11 life by playing Elspeth on turn 6, but turn 7, brave the elements+Rampaged +4/+4 and the team sweeps over.
G2: On the play, I get to play a courser and he needs a selesnya charm +2/+2 mode on his creature to kill it. Game goes longer, I pull out a Ooze that gains life and grows big and he doesn't draw another charm to kill it in time and my Angel resolves.
G3: On the draw, unbeatable Brave Naya draw with 2 voice of resurgence (If I was playing Esper with detention sphere the 2 voices would be d.sphered....) and 2 gore-clan rampager and Boros charm. Killing a rampaged voice on his turn means 2 elemental tokens. Can't win.
Loss 2: Mono Black 0-2 (On the draw) [Quarterfinals]
G1: Pack rat into demon, could not remove both
G2: I duressed him on turn 1, and he was holding 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Lifebane. Sigh. He removed my removal, Lifebaned my Obzedat and resolved a pack rat on turn 5 with 3 mana open. I think he also had a demon which made my 5/5 wurm look insignificant.
I wonder if the Junk List can support 1 x packrat? After all, there is Underworld Connections and Courser for lifegain/card advantage.....
Could you post the updated list from Jeff Hoogland?
I would like to know, how his updated version looks like.
Hooglands updated list just switches out the one of Lifebane Zombie for a sin collector main deck. Otherwise the deck hasn't changed and also Hoogland has jumped to Brave Naya because he said in his recent article that he got tired of stumbling at SCG Knoxville.
I'll be taking this to an IQ likely next Saturday. So far, this style has been very strong against Jund Monsters and control. It was pretty weak before against G/W decks (my only loss in swiss and loss in semifinals), which is why I switched up some of the removal suite and moved Lifebane Zombies into the maindeck, as well as Thoughtseize to the board. I don't really know how the mono-black devotion matchup will go, but I've also made adjustments to make sure that matchup is better, as I was worried about their Lifebane Zombies hitting everything and wanted to be certain that I could still pressure them through that. The changes I made to the removal suite were also intended to provide more answers for Polukranos and Stormbreath Dragon, even though I swept all the Jund Monsters players I've played against, those cards caused the most problems and it was awkward to have so little removal for them.
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Spells:18
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Underworld Connections
2 Advent of the Wurm
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Forest
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
3 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Silence
2 Thoughtseize
2 Bile Blight
2 Golgari Charm
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Sin Collector
1 Underworld Connections
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
Round 1 vs American Control (2-0)
Now I do remember this one a little bit. Junk did it's thing and just played so smooth and my opponent was a good guy. Didn't once get frustrated. Didn't once do anything wrong what so ever. I won the match we were still talking and signed the slip and I turned it in. When time for round two came up I seen I had zero points. But some others were disputing their loss of points despite winning too. We got it all fixed my opponent was honest and told the judges I had won our match and they fixed the points.
Round 2 vs. Junk Hexproof (2-0)
My opponent was a player from our LGS. He's is a very quiet, reserved guy and our games were somewhat close, especially game two. Abrupt decay was excellent here.
Round 3 vs. The Mirror (2-0)
All I can say is Advent of the wurm does a lot of work in the mirror. At least in all my experience with the match.
Round 4 vs. Camden adkins(#12 on SCG player leader board) Esper Control (0-2)
His deck had every answer to what I had. It was control so that happens. I played as best as one should in this match( even the opinion of my opponent) and I started bricking on draws eventually and my opponent continued find answers. It happens. But Camden was a lot of fun to play against. Very Animated. Nice guy.
Round 5 vs. RW Burn (0-2)
The games weren't very fun. My opponent just pretty much ignored what I did and fished the match...(RW Burn, possibly the new boogey man???)
Round 6 vs. B/W Midrange (2-1)
This is a friend of mine. We only see each at events like Opens, PTQs IQs....but the guy is really cool and we get a long great. There was a point I tried to draw a card with Scry trigger on the stack and I thought I had Courser on the field( I had previously)and it was an honest mistake and we both weren't dead certain what should happen. We agreed it was best to call a judge. Game two he thoughtseized me and seen my hand was lands and removal for anything and everything. He thought he was the removal heavy deck. He got this game after we went into topdecking. Game 3 he kept a risky but solid hand if he drew one more white source. He drew it too late in typical MTG fashion.
Round 7 vs U/w Devotion (2-1)
I don't remember much here other than I realized again, after so long, How much I dislike Thassa when she is animated. I found a way around it all to take the match though.
So I'm feeling good here. I'm confident I can go without a loss the last two rounds. My deck is solid and I can do this. Magic had different plans.
Round 8 vs. American Control (0-2)
My opponent was extremely quiet. Didn't communicate well. Half the time I never knew he passed the turn back or anything. Aetherling was the linchpin in this match for him. Just resolve aetherling late. I can't interact. GGs.
Now, I am not raging here when I say this. In no way what so ever am I upset I lost or that my opponent won. No.. I am upset with WOTC. Why?
It seems after we had the highly skill intensive, arguably most powerful control deck in standard history, the dreaded Cawblade. WOTC decided to make control much easier to play, yet oppressive. This is coming from someone who is a Blue player at heart. It seems anybody can pick up a control deck now. Play verdict turn 4. Turn 5 at the latest if your opponent has a slow start. Follow up with Jace. Then Revelation. Play Elspeth. WIN! The control decks are SO easy to play now it's not even funny. The only time I ever lose with a control deck is if I keep the 3 lander with Verdict or the 4 lander with Jace, Dsphere and hoping for that Verdict. Enough of this rant. I am just sad about this because like I said, I am a control player at heart and when the deck because so linear to me and I find playing Midrange decks more intuitive and fulfilling it is saddening. For me atleast. Done.... Moving on....
Round 9 vs. Mono Blue Devotion (1-2)
Yes. It still exists. Game one he clobbered me. Game two was extremely close. Game 3. I controlled the board hard. Everything of his of relevance died. Then he plays Thassa. Begins scrying. Junk is slow. So he had a bit of time to catch up. Suddenly down comes a Tidebinder. Lock down your 5/5 wurm. Down comes NIghtveil. Thassa is alive! Attack!.
Then it was all about unblockable creatures after that. GGs though. Unlike those non-interactive burn decks.
My friend Jamie made it in to top 8 at 3rd place. I congratulate him many times and my night of Magic is over.
Looking ahead with the breakout deck, despite Burn winning it all, being Brave Naya. It may not be so bad to pack a couple of Drown in sorrow now. Just a thought.
Also, how has everyone else been faring against burn? In testing I was excellent. In Knoxville I was just incinerated!
Also I was considering putting thoughtseize back in the main, I played Hoogland's updated list yesterday. Now I am not so sure on TS since some of the winnning lists, which we know everyone will be playing the finalists decks, are just so fast that every bit of life we can preserve is important.
Cash? Credit? Gold? or Jace?
Well a midrange deck like Junk is an excellent option if you enjoy control but want to make skilled decisions. I have enjoyed playing midrange more since last year than I control deck.
What does everybody expect the meta to look like at States? Given the result of Knoxville this weekend I think it will see a lot more of a breakout from Naya and Burn. Control will likely squeeze in there still with some Mono Black. But the question is how to tune Junk?
I don't agree with TS main anymore with two fast decks like Naya and Burn in the format. Also all day when I brought TS in from the board vs. control I wished it was a Mistcutter Hydra. That wins games. I drew a TS vs Cam Adkins and had it been the Hydra I would've won. Right there I realized I needed Hydra. TS actually underperformed all day for me.
Has anyone else seen Kibler's version of this deck? He takes out the majority of the 5 drops and advent. Replaces advent with 2 Polukranos and 2 Reaper of the wilds. Adds a 2nd Elspeth and brings four TS back to the main deck. If anyone else has seen this, what are your thoughts on Kibler's approach?
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Silence
2 Underworld Connections
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Sin Collector
1 Underworld Connections
2 Bile Blight
2 Golgari Charm
2 Putrefy
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
What are the thoughts on a list like this?
With Mono-Blue Devotion apparently no longer a thing, I would be pretty reluctant to play Polly over Advent. Trample and Flash are better than a situational mana-sink ability against most other decks (the argument that the instant speed isn't useful unless you have other EOT options strikes me as off-base; aggro pilots are rarely going to refuse to attack into open mana, and you're winning if they do).
My list Varies a bit from todays norm of what Junk typically looks like too. The changes I felt were for the better for yesterday. Well.....for the most part.
2 obzedat, ghost council
4 sylvan caryatid
3 scavenging ooze
2 polukranos, world eater
4 courser of kruphix
2 elspeth, sun's champion
2 ajani, mentor of heroes
3 abrupt decay
4 hero's downfall
2 banishing light
2 underworld connection
3 thoughtseize
1 swamp
4 overgrown tomb
3 temple garden
3 godless shrine
1 mana confluence
4 temple of plenty
3 temple of malady
4 temple of silence
2 bile blight
1 doom blade
1 banishing light
1 vraska the unseen
2 sin collector
2 lifebane zombie
2 blood baron of vizkopa
2 golgari charm
1 erebos, god of the dead
1 underworld connection
I think my changes going forward is going to be -2 Polukrano and -1 courser, + 3 advent of the wurm.
I also feel the mana base holds this deck back from time to time. We would be much better served reworking our mana with some more basics of shocks. I would rather not shock myself all the time if possible.
maybe a mana base like this?
3 swamp
4 overgrown tomb
3 temple garden
3 godless shrine
1 mana confluence
1 temple of malady
4 temple of plenty
4 temple of silence
??? I don't know. I just want to improve this deck as much as possible. There are a lot of people I've talked to that agree that while Hoogland's list is solid, it isn't as great as it could possibly be.
This is exactly how I feel too. I just can't seem to beat control unless I'm extremely lucky they don't draw an abundance of counter and Revelations. I am very frustrated with the deck lately. It seems that I get a good start vs control and then something happens and I just can't close a game.
Thoughts?
Edit: Thinking about going 0x Thoughtseize MD and 4x side, here's my current 75 for reference:
2 Forest
4 Godless Shrine
1 Mana Confluence
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
// Creatures
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Advent of the Wurm
4 Hero's Downfall
// Sorceries
2 Thoughtseize
// Enchantments
2 Banishing Light
2 Underworld Connections
// Planeswalkers
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Banishing Light
2 Bile Blight
1 Drown in Sorrow
2 Golgari Charm
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
1 Putrefy
2 Sin Collector
2 Thoughtseize
Standard: Monoblack Devotion - BG Constellation
Modern: RG Tron - Melira Pod
Legacy: Bug Delver - Esper Deathblade
Gyre Sages can be evolved by Oozes, Coursers, Caryatids, not to mention the bigger 4-5 drops.
If straight W/U is relying on Celestial Flare. I want to attack them with Gyre Sage and Obzedat.
For a midrange deck to beat Esper Control, you need to start chipping away at the opponent's life total as soon as possible so that when your finally manage to resolve a big creature like Wurm/Obzedat, the opponent has a 2 turn clock and not a 4 turn clock.
Early pressure also maximises the benefits of an early thoughtseize and sin collector. No point stripping his hand if he's allowed time to rebuild.
The Gyre sage could perform the secondary function of providing mana in case you miss the 5th land drop if you're playing the list with loads of 5 drops (and Elspeth).
For lists that drop Ajani MOH (I don't have Ajani MOH so I play without it) and have a lower curve, that's a very valid question - why not play with 3 or fewer Caryatids and you can put in a Voice/Lion (tho' both can't block Soldier of Pantheon).
Gyre Sage and Blinking Obzedat is a fun combo for FNM....
4 courser of kruphix
3 polukranos, world eater
1 obzedat, ghost council
1 blood baron of vizkopa
2 archangel of thune
2 scavenging ooze
2 ajani, mentor of heroes
2 elspeth, sun's champion
3 abrupt decay
4 hero's downfall
2 banishing light
2 underworld connections
1 whip of erebos
2 thoughtseize
2 swamp
4 overgrown tomb
3 temple garden
3 godless shrine
1 mana confluence
1 temple of malady
4 temple of silence
4 temple of plenty
2 duress
1 thoughtseize
2 mistcutter hydra
2 lifebane zombie
1 golgari charm
1 pithing needle
1 blood baron of vizkopa
1 underworld connection
2 bile blight
1 banishing light
1 putrefy
Loss one: Brave Naya 1-2 (on the play)
G1: On the play means I try to stabilise at 11 life by playing Elspeth on turn 6, but turn 7, brave the elements+Rampaged +4/+4 and the team sweeps over.
G2: On the play, I get to play a courser and he needs a selesnya charm +2/+2 mode on his creature to kill it. Game goes longer, I pull out a Ooze that gains life and grows big and he doesn't draw another charm to kill it in time and my Angel resolves.
G3: On the draw, unbeatable Brave Naya draw with 2 voice of resurgence (If I was playing Esper with detention sphere the 2 voices would be d.sphered....) and 2 gore-clan rampager and Boros charm. Killing a rampaged voice on his turn means 2 elemental tokens. Can't win.
Loss 2: Mono Black 0-2 (On the draw) [Quarterfinals]
G1: Pack rat into demon, could not remove both
G2: I duressed him on turn 1, and he was holding 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Lifebane. Sigh. He removed my removal, Lifebaned my Obzedat and resolved a pack rat on turn 5 with 3 mana open. I think he also had a demon which made my 5/5 wurm look insignificant.
I wonder if the Junk List can support 1 x packrat? After all, there is Underworld Connections and Courser for lifegain/card advantage.....
Hooglands updated list just switches out the one of Lifebane Zombie for a sin collector main deck. Otherwise the deck hasn't changed and also Hoogland has jumped to Brave Naya because he said in his recent article that he got tired of stumbling at SCG Knoxville.
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Desecration Demon
Spells:17
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Devour Flesh
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Underworld Connections
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
3 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
5 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Duress
2 Doom Blade
2 Golgari Charm
2 Underworld Connections
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69279
I've adjusted it to the following:
2x Godless Shrine
2x Mana Confluence
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Plains
1x Swamp
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Malady
3x Temple of Silence
4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Boon Satyr
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Fleecemane Lion
3x Lifebane Zombie
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
3x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Voice of Resurgence
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Golgari Charm
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Ultimate Price
2x Bile Blight
1x Dark Betrayal
1x Deicide
2x Doom Blade
3x Mistcutter Hydra
1x Nylea's Disciple
2x Sin Collector
3x Thoughtseize
I'll be taking this to an IQ likely next Saturday. So far, this style has been very strong against Jund Monsters and control. It was pretty weak before against G/W decks (my only loss in swiss and loss in semifinals), which is why I switched up some of the removal suite and moved Lifebane Zombies into the maindeck, as well as Thoughtseize to the board. I don't really know how the mono-black devotion matchup will go, but I've also made adjustments to make sure that matchup is better, as I was worried about their Lifebane Zombies hitting everything and wanted to be certain that I could still pressure them through that. The changes I made to the removal suite were also intended to provide more answers for Polukranos and Stormbreath Dragon, even though I swept all the Jund Monsters players I've played against, those cards caused the most problems and it was awkward to have so little removal for them.