Junk decks are midrange decks that utilize the color combinations of green, white black. This gives them the tools to be the aggressive, midrange, or controlling deck depending on the matchup. It utilizes strong resilient creatures, and efficient removal. They tend to have a pretty solid late game as well.
:symw::symb::symg:Why Junk?:symw::symb::symg:
Junk Midrange offers a lot efficient creatures like Voice of Resurgence, Loxodon Smiter, and Scavenging Ooze that can pose as threats to any other matchup. We get the benefit of playing Elvish Mystic which helps enable a more proactive game plan, casting Loxodon Smiters on turn 2, and Advent of the Wurm on turn 3. Junk also has a very solid late game plan as well, playing cards like Archangel of Thune, Elspeth Suns Champion, and sometimes Blood Baron of Vizkopa. Creatures aren't the only thing Junk does well, it gets some of the best removal spells such as Putrefy, Abrupt Decay,and Heroes Downfall. All and all, Junk is a very flexible, and efficient deck that can either go aggressive on the control decks, control the aggro decks, and grind out midrange matchups.
Elvish Mystic:rate4.5:: Elvish Mystic is what enables Junk to actively put pressure on the opponent. Accelerating into cheap threats that the opponent has to deal with is very potent. He is pretty important to the deck.
Loxodon Smiter::rate4: This guy is also what allows us to go on the beat down plan so well. Played on turn 2 from an Elvish Mystic is very good against any decks out there. Even if you dont get him on turn 2 a turn 3 4/4 for 1:symw::symg: that cant be countered is very good.
Boon Satyr::rate3.5: Maybe not as good as Smiter due to his 2 toughness but a flash 4 power is nothing to sneeze at. Also in the midgame flashing him in for is Bestow cost can lead to major blowouts, and allows us to play around Supreme Verdict more efficiently. Voice of Resurgence: :rate5:This card is amazing. Hedges an advantage against control, and replaces himself against very aggressive decks, not to mention after a Supreme Verdict. I know its too early to call staples, but I am sure he will be one.
Scavenging Ooze::rate4: Now that Unburial Rites, and Snapcaster Mage is not a thing in Standard anymore I am not sure how good he will be. He is still a 2 drop threat that has lots of utility. Gives you that life cushion against the aggro decks, and becomes a real threat in the mid to late games versus control and midrange decks. I think 1-3 will be the most common number of this guy.
Archangel Of Thune::rate4: She is a major part of the midrange to late game plan. Everytime she connects its a Gavony Township for the team, not to mention the interaction with Scavenging Ooze, and cards you might have in the sideboared like Trostani, Selesnya's Voice.
Blood Baron of Vizopa::rate4.5: This guy is super solid! He is very hard to remove, and poses a huge threat. The fact that he dodges every removal spell besides Mizzium Mortars, and Turn/Burn is very good. The lifelink is just bonus.
Desecration Demon::rate3.5: This is a big man. I go back and forth on if I like Demon or not. He is a 6/6 flyer for 4, but giving the option of your opponent to tap him down is not my favorite. I don't want my opponent to be able to have those kind of choices. He is very good if youre ahead but less than okay if you're behind. Thats not something I am looking for in a deck that relies on resilience. I could be 100% wrong about it though.
Lifebane Zombie::rate3: I like Lifebane Zombie a lot, I am just not sure if he is main deck material. I could easily see him in the main of a Junk deck that is a lot more Black heavy, but I see it more a very good sideboard option.
Fleecemane Lion::rate3: Overall this card is very solid, and what most people would expect to see in a Junk deck, but the two drop slot is already so full from Voice, and Scavenging Ooze, and the fact that if we open with an Elvish Mystic we want to play a Smiter, or Boon Satyr turn 2. I just dont see him fitting in most lists.
Sin Collector::rate2.5: Not that amazing of a card. Getting information is always very good, but a 2/1 for three is not where we want to be most of the time. I could easily see him in the side to snipe Supreme Verdicts, and Sphinx's Revelations though.
Reaper of the Wilds::rate2: I think this card is pretty meh. four for a 4/5 is alright, and getting deathtouch for is fine as well, it just seems underwhelming. Its an essential 6 drop if you want to have mana up for the Hexproof ability, and the scry 1 isnt super relevant. I am interested to see what you guys this about him.
Spells:
Putrefy Putrefy is a very solid removal spell. Hitting everything its path. It gets a little outclassed by Heroes Downfall, but I think it is still an inclusion.
Selesnya Charm Very solid spell. It deals with all of the Gods, most threats, and is combat trick and a creature all in one. I would recommend playing some number of this card.
Abrupt Decay Pretty solid removal spell. Hitting all the aggressive creatures out there, and hitting troublesome enchantments like Detention Sphere is always a good thing.
Doom Blade Sadly Doom Blade just gets out classed by most other removal spells, and its restrictions are back breaking at times. I could see lists running a one of but no more than that.
Heroes Downfall : Very good removal spell if you mana base can handle it. Dealing with planewalkers is huge, and nailing every creature you want is awesome. Due to the mana I would suggest 1-2 copies in the main.
Advent of the Wurm This card is insane. A 5/5 trample for 4 at instant speed is very good. One of the threats that ties the deck together. I foresee it being very good in the upcoming format.
Golgari Charm This will be a sideboard staple I think. Dealing with enchantments in an enchantment heavy set seems pretty good, and the regeneration for a Supreme Verdict, for combat is very solid as well.
Whip of Erebos::rate3: Very solid card. Great against the aggro decks, and the grindy midrange matchups. I would be somewhat suprised to not see any of these in the 75 of a junk list.
Primeval Bounty:rate3.5:: Another superstar card. Basically the green planeswalker we are missing for this deck, except we can activate all three ability's in one turn. Another really good card for those Midrange decks, slightly worse in the control games but I could still see bringing it in from the sideboard.
Underworld Connections Great sideboard card, we need to take card advantage anywhere we can get it. Another way this deck can out grind the midrange mirrors is with this card. It will refill our hand against control, all and all a pretty good sideboard option.
Plansewalker:
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Very good card. Helps our late game tremendously, and stabilizes us like no ones business. Also an out to opposing Blood Barons is very good. I would suggest 2-3 in a given list.
Vraska, the Unseen Pretty solid walker, I see her more as SB materiel than main deck. Good in the midrange and control matchups for sure.
Garruk Caller of Beasts Unfortunately we cant take full advantage of Garruk, I wouldnt recommend any copies.
I talked earlier about how this deck can play a roll of aggressive, midrange, and controlly. Here we will break down exactly how you know what roll to play and against what matchups.
Against Aggro:
This analysis will be from the "sample list" posted above.
Against the Aggro matchup we want to be the control deck. We have such a solid late game and large creatures that we can finish the aggro decks fairly easily in the mid to late game. You want to kill off their early threats as soon as possible, with either removal or chump blocking. Dont be afraid to block.
In game one you have to realize that you are the control deck. Block when it good, and sometimes just block to conserve your life total until you can land an Elspeth, or Blood Baron. With cards like Loxodon Smiter, and Advent of the Wurm we should not have a hard time to outclass their creatures. For game two, I would take out 2 Elspeths, 1 Boon Satyr, and go +2 Whip of Erebos, +1 Obzedat Ghost Council. Same thing as game one except we have much better tools in Whip to help stabilize our life total. Also depending on what aggro deck it is, Lifebane Zombie could be an inclusion, due to sniping out Ghor Clan Rampagers, and other threats. If you do, you can take out more Boon Satyrs.
Against Midrange:
Against the midrange matchups we can either be aggressive or grind them out. Game one I like to be the aggressive deck because we have such efficiently cost creatures in Smiter, and Advent again. Try to beat down with early threats, and go over the top of them with Blood Baron (possibly suited up with a Boon Satyr), or an Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Control their threats! We have amazing removal, use it! Stabilize with cards like Scavenging Ooze, and Blood Baron. As for SB I would suggest +1 Primeval Bounty, +1 Obzedat Ghost Council, +2 Underworld Connections (Optional). -2 Boon Satyr, (probably) -2 Abrupt Decay. Also suggestions could be Lifebane Zombie snagging their big threats.
Against Control:
For the Control matchup we are the aggressive deck. We can slam in some high damage fast. Cards like Voice, Smiter, and Advent really carry us here. Play smart, dont over extend into Supreme Verdict, but put enough pressure on them that causes them to make subpar plays. Flash cards are key in this match up. Boon Satyr, and Advent of the Wurm are very good here. They both help us tremendously to play around Supreme Verdict, and counter spells. For the SB pretty much everything is good here, but mostly Underworld Connections, some number of Golgari Charm, and Sin Collector. I really like Primeval Bounty, Obzedat, and Vraska here as well. Whip of Erebos is pretty solid as well.
I think the interaction between Boon Satyr and Blood Baron Vizkopa would be great in this deck. An almost unkillable 8/6 lifelink is game over.
I agree that is a very good interaction, and would be very difficult for any deck to deal with. Even if he does get removed, we get a 4/2 Boon Satyr left behind. Seems pretty good.
Junk midrange has it all: the best kill spells, thoughtseize, and diverse threats to help deal with aggro and provide a strong endgame. The card that really brings the deck together is Blood baron of vizkopa. I believe this card is going to be one of the best threat/stabilizers in theros standard. The protection is incredibly relevant to the black removal that will be running about, and he dodges all burn except mizzium mortars. Here's the list I'm going to be running (once I get all the cards after spending a zillion bucks x_x)
The deck loses quite a lot of life with 12 shocks, 3 thoughtseize, and 2 read the bones. That's why it's necessary to have a minimum of 8 sources of lifegain to make sure you don't kill yourself and can actually comeback from an aggro onslaught. The deck run's 8 kill spells, which might end up not being enough depending on how aggressive the format turns out to be. In reality it's closer to 11 ways to remove the opponents threats, since thoughtseize can preemptively remove one. I really like whip of erebos as most of my threat are pretty big so the lifegain is pretty significant. It also does a good job of imitating AoS without having to run 3+ copies of AoS. Of course both are good so I play both.
I like gyre sage over elvish mystic or sylvan caryatid, as it provides ramp while being a growing threat. Of course gyre sage requires a certain number of creatures to be effective. Loxodon smiter and desecration demon are natural inclusions as they will consistently be able to trigger evolve while also being efficient threats.
Scavenging ooze might seem counter-intuitive with 2 whip of erebos and 2 AoS, but enough creatures end up in the GY that the 3 coexist without any real discord.
Sb is really rough but it's a starting point. Suggestions would for that (and the deck in general) would be greatly appreciated (=
i want to get hero's downfall in this list somewhere as well. probably -1 doom blade and -1 putrefy for 2 of them but i'll test this list first and see where i need to go.
what do you think?
I would cut 2 putrefy before I cut a doom blade for 2 hero's demise, as you want to cut card with the same CMC. I also don't think archangel of thune is doing enough in your build. You're not going to have out more than 2 guys + archangel (unless you want to run into a sweeper), and you're guys are naturally pretty solid creatures on their own so the +1+1 counters don't add much. It's also doesn't do anything with sylvan caryatid. If you are set on playing archangel I would suggest playing 4 elvish mystic and 4 gyre sage, as sage has synergy with the counters and elvish mystic actually wants to be pumped up. I'd also suggest adding banisher 3 or so banisher priest, as that's a creature that has a sweet effect and would love to get +1+1 counters so it could actually tango in battle. Personally I'd rather run a full playset of bloodbaron of vizkopa before I ran any archangel.
Why no thoughtseize? It's one of the most powerful cards available to junk. I'd also shy away from baleful eidolon, as that card is very underpowered and should really only be played in limited. I'd suggest either more ramp or card draw (underworld connections/read the bones) or thoughtseize. I also really do recommend people play gyre sage over sylvan caryatid in junk builds with 20 or so creatures. The possible payoff of getting multiple mana from one dork and another huge threat just by playing threats is worth playing over caryatid imho.
I think this deck really wants both whip and ghost council in the main. They both psuedo-combo together and they help offshoot the life payments of shocks, t-seize, read the bones, underworld connections, etc.
i much prefer sylvan caryatid over gyre sage at the minute for two reasons. the first is that the caryatid can tap for mana straight away where as gyre sage has to evolve before it can. the second is that gyre sage will only tap for green mana where the caryatid will tap for whatever you need at the time. at least with the caryatid there's less chance for that desecration demon/blood baron of vizkopa/obzedat, ghost council to stay in your hand because you're short of white or black mana. if the deck had more of a green focus i'd say that gyre sage was clearly a better choice.
and Cryatid can't be doom bladed, or abupt decayed, or hero's downfall, etc.
I think if Junk Mid uses whip they should also do Lifebane Zombie. There is already a commitment to black to get the whip out. Whipping the zombie gets his effect, gains you 3 life (enough for thoughtsieze or a shockland or read the bones) and its an evasive 3 damage.
I think this deck really wants both whip and ghost council in the main. They both psuedo-combo together and they help offshoot the life payments of shocks, t-seize, read the bones, underworld connections, etc.
I fell like the biggest problem with Obzedat is the mana cost, I want to be able to rely on my threats as much as possible, and if I am worried about being able to cast him that could pose a problem. I do think Blood Baron would be very good though.
I think this deck really wants both whip and ghost council in the main. They both psuedo-combo together and they help offshoot the life payments of shocks, t-seize, read the bones, underworld connections, etc.
I'm pretty intrested in what list you have been testing
Been testing a similar list and blood barom is definitely better than the archangel. Not much time right now to post details but im very hopeful in what junk can do post rotation.
Been testing a similar list and blood barom is definitely better than the archangel. Not much time right now to post details but im very hopeful in what junk can do post rotation.
Yeah I agree and changed he sample deck to support this. I do feel like Archangel might have a place in the SB, or some other builds that are more life gain based with cards like Trostani. As for a general insane win con, I think Blood Baron is the best fit in Junk, especially with Boon Satyr. Their interaction is just insane. Cant wait to suit up a Blood Baron with that guy.
I feel like the list wants 3 Blood Baron, not sure though. I really like the sample list, I think I am going to use it for our list going forward. I may make some minor adjustments after a bit. I feel like the sample list is the strongest one on this thread at the moment.
Not really sure but can you guys please explain why Vraska is in the SB? I tried to run her a number of times before (last INN-RTR standard) but was almost always underwhelmed by her. In what matches do you think siding in Vraska will work?
I feel like the list wants 3 Blood Baron, not sure though. I really like the sample list, I think I am going to use it for our list going forward. I may make some minor adjustments after a bit. I feel like the sample list is the strongest one on this thread at the moment.
First off I would like to apologize for my little out burst on your Primer. It was a rough day, hopefully you can understand.
Anyway, thank you so much! I appreciate that a lot. As your testing goes I would be very interested to see what you have to say, and change to the list. I could probably get behind a 3rd Blood Baron, but I am not sure what we can trim. What do you think?
Not really sure but can you guys please explain why Vraska is in the SB? I tried to run her a number of times before (last INN-RTR standard) but was almost always underwhelmed by her. In what matches do you think siding in Vraska will work?
Honestly I like Vraska, for the Midrange matchups, and def Control. I could see her not being super amazing. She will need a lot more testing, and the right number in the board will probably 0-1. She is just another must answer threat for those decks. Another removal spell that stays on the field is very good as well.
I can't help but think that Lion/Smiter seem out of place here, both obviously very powerful cards but i'd much rather trade them out for more expensive and more deadly creatures. Polukranos at 4 and Obzedat at 5 seem very powerful. Never mind then throwing the Whip in then boosts the control match up (Obzewhipping) and basically stops Agro dead. How do they attack into Polukranos with the Whip out?
I can't help but think that Lion/Smiter seem out of place here, both obviously very powerful cards but i'd much rather trade them out for more expensive and more deadly creatures. Polukranos at 4 and Obzedat at 5 seem very powerful. Never mind then throwing the Whip in then boosts the control match up (Obzewhipping) and basically stops Agro dead. How do they attack into Polukranos with the Whip out?
I agree that Lion does not fit in these type of lists, but I disagree on Smiter. The major problem with your idea is mana. You want GG, BB, into BBWW. There is no way a mana base can support that. I wouldnt really want a 2GG, sharing my four drop slot with a 2BB, then trying to cast 1WWBB. Like I have said before this deck relies on constancy. With that kind of curve it just wouldnt happen. I do like Whip, and probably Obzedat in the SB though for sure.
My list, a lot different than OP's, but has been incredibly solid so far. I've built the MB to be very resistant to aggro(and thus the SB for control/mid) because that's typically where G1 is the hardest, and it can sneak out G1 wins against control a lot of the time, depending on how things go, but its focused around aggro.
I don't know why everyone is neglecting Centaur Healer all of the sudden. He's without a doubt one of the best creatures in the deck. This new standard is so shock-centric (and of course aggro) that that 3 life goes a long way to keeping us alive. Vs. Control + Midrange if we don't need the life it's an easy swap out for Lifebane Zombie, Sin Collector, or Ooze.
I don't really like Boon Satyr. The bestow onto BBV was always nice in testing, but generally without bestow it was just a crappy flash-blocker. The bestow is a bit overcosted to use, I'd rather see him in a full aggro list. Loxodon Smiter and Advent of the Wurm both out perform him, and I already discussed Centaur Healer.
Another card I don't like in this deck is Voice of Resurgence. He's just not doing enough vs. aggro, and they can play around him in control/midrange. 2-for-1 is nice but it keeps feeling like a crappy Strangleroot Geist.
Whip of Erebos is nice for the lifelink, surely, but I don't know if I have enough targets for it. I might try it back out again since my list has changed a lot since I last tried it.
Haven't tried out Elspeth that much, I just find it gets too hated out. Dropping it for 6 then it eating a counterspell or Hero's Downfall is super depressing.
My in-depthish guide can be found here for my version:
Has anyone tested Deadbridge Chant instead of Primeval Bounty? I was just curious since they play some what similar roles as a Card Advantage engine for us to out-pace or keep up with other mid-range and control decks.
I personally like Chant because it's like drawing an extra card each turn and if you're playing Scavenging Ooze, you can to an extent "fix" which card you get back. Also recycling cards is always great.
But I do see the benefit of Bounty of giving every card you play additional value and can start giving benefits straight away instead of having to wait a turn and potentially get blown out by enchantment hate.
Has anyone tested Deadbridge Chant instead of Primeval Bounty? I was just curious since they play some what similar roles as a Card Advantage engine for us to out-pace or keep up with other mid-range and control decks.
I personally like Chant because it's like drawing an extra card each turn and if you're playing Scavenging Ooze, you can to an extent "fix" which card you get back. Also recycling cards is always great.
But I do see the benefit of Bounty of giving every card you play additional value and can start giving benefits straight away instead of having to wait a turn and potentially get blown out by enchantment hate.
The reason I like Bounty over Chant is because you can get multiple triggers off it in one turn. Making even land drops more valuable in the grind, and race situations. Making your creatures bigger while killing one of theirs, and getting 2 creatures for one is awesome. I think it is just way better.
I agree that Lion does not fit in these type of lists, but I disagree on Smiter. The major problem with your idea is mana. You want GG, BB, into BBWW. There is no way a mana base can support that. I wouldnt really want a 2GG, sharing my four drop slot with a 2BB, then trying to cast 1WWBB. Like I have said before this deck relies on constancy. With that kind of curve it just wouldnt happen. I do like Whip, and probably Obzedat in the SB though for sure.
I see what you're saying re Obzedat/Whip, and whilst i wouldn't advocate playing 2/3 of each both as one of's they are both so good against certain decks that they have to be considered imo, Whip especially as its good in more than one match up
Lion is an amazing card. It is almost impossible for control to kill.
Ive been testing a junk list for the past 3 weeks and it has been very successful against old and new standard decks alike. Ill post a list eventually.
Seems pretty standard. I am liking it so far, both playing it and playing against it. There was input from the others team up and prep with and this was kind of where your list led us, not many changes at all which was pretty surprising. I expected it to be ripped apart by the others. There was a more Whip oriented list, but we turned it down, it was running Salvages and Whips and we just did not like it too much.
:symw::symb::symg:Introduction:symw::symb::symg:
Junk Midrange offers a lot efficient creatures like Voice of Resurgence, Loxodon Smiter, and Scavenging Ooze that can pose as threats to any other matchup. We get the benefit of playing Elvish Mystic which helps enable a more proactive game plan, casting Loxodon Smiters on turn 2, and Advent of the Wurm on turn 3. Junk also has a very solid late game plan as well, playing cards like Archangel of Thune, Elspeth Suns Champion, and sometimes Blood Baron of Vizkopa. Creatures aren't the only thing Junk does well, it gets some of the best removal spells such as Putrefy, Abrupt Decay,and Heroes Downfall. All and all, Junk is a very flexible, and efficient deck that can either go aggressive on the control decks, control the aggro decks, and grind out midrange matchups.
:symw::symb::symg:Card Choices/Options:symw::symb::symg:
Creatures:
Loxodon Smiter::rate4: This guy is also what allows us to go on the beat down plan so well. Played on turn 2 from an Elvish Mystic is very good against any decks out there. Even if you dont get him on turn 2 a turn 3 4/4 for 1:symw::symg: that cant be countered is very good.
Boon Satyr::rate3.5: Maybe not as good as Smiter due to his 2 toughness but a flash 4 power is nothing to sneeze at. Also in the midgame flashing him in for is Bestow cost can lead to major blowouts, and allows us to play around Supreme Verdict more efficiently.
Voice of Resurgence: :rate5:This card is amazing. Hedges an advantage against control, and replaces himself against very aggressive decks, not to mention after a Supreme Verdict. I know its too early to call staples, but I am sure he will be one.
Scavenging Ooze::rate4: Now that Unburial Rites, and Snapcaster Mage is not a thing in Standard anymore I am not sure how good he will be. He is still a 2 drop threat that has lots of utility. Gives you that life cushion against the aggro decks, and becomes a real threat in the mid to late games versus control and midrange decks. I think 1-3 will be the most common number of this guy.
Archangel Of Thune::rate4: She is a major part of the midrange to late game plan. Everytime she connects its a Gavony Township for the team, not to mention the interaction with Scavenging Ooze, and cards you might have in the sideboared like Trostani, Selesnya's Voice.
Blood Baron of Vizopa::rate4.5: This guy is super solid! He is very hard to remove, and poses a huge threat. The fact that he dodges every removal spell besides Mizzium Mortars, and Turn/Burn is very good. The lifelink is just bonus.
Desecration Demon::rate3.5: This is a big man. I go back and forth on if I like Demon or not. He is a 6/6 flyer for 4, but giving the option of your opponent to tap him down is not my favorite. I don't want my opponent to be able to have those kind of choices. He is very good if youre ahead but less than okay if you're behind. Thats not something I am looking for in a deck that relies on resilience. I could be 100% wrong about it though.
Lifebane Zombie::rate3: I like Lifebane Zombie a lot, I am just not sure if he is main deck material. I could easily see him in the main of a Junk deck that is a lot more Black heavy, but I see it more a very good sideboard option.
Fleecemane Lion::rate3: Overall this card is very solid, and what most people would expect to see in a Junk deck, but the two drop slot is already so full from Voice, and Scavenging Ooze, and the fact that if we open with an Elvish Mystic we want to play a Smiter, or Boon Satyr turn 2. I just dont see him fitting in most lists.
Sin Collector::rate2.5: Not that amazing of a card. Getting information is always very good, but a 2/1 for three is not where we want to be most of the time. I could easily see him in the side to snipe Supreme Verdicts, and Sphinx's Revelations though.
Reaper of the Wilds::rate2: I think this card is pretty meh. four for a 4/5 is alright, and getting deathtouch for is fine as well, it just seems underwhelming. Its an essential 6 drop if you want to have mana up for the Hexproof ability, and the scry 1 isnt super relevant. I am interested to see what you guys this about him.
Spells:
Selesnya Charm Very solid spell. It deals with all of the Gods, most threats, and is combat trick and a creature all in one. I would recommend playing some number of this card.
Abrupt Decay Pretty solid removal spell. Hitting all the aggressive creatures out there, and hitting troublesome enchantments like Detention Sphere is always a good thing.
Doom Blade Sadly Doom Blade just gets out classed by most other removal spells, and its restrictions are back breaking at times. I could see lists running a one of but no more than that.
Heroes Downfall : Very good removal spell if you mana base can handle it. Dealing with planewalkers is huge, and nailing every creature you want is awesome. Due to the mana I would suggest 1-2 copies in the main.
Advent of the Wurm This card is insane. A 5/5 trample for 4 at instant speed is very good. One of the threats that ties the deck together. I foresee it being very good in the upcoming format.
Golgari Charm This will be a sideboard staple I think. Dealing with enchantments in an enchantment heavy set seems pretty good, and the regeneration for a Supreme Verdict, for combat is very solid as well.
Ultimate Price Has the same problems as Doom Blade.
Whip of Erebos::rate3: Very solid card. Great against the aggro decks, and the grindy midrange matchups. I would be somewhat suprised to not see any of these in the 75 of a junk list.
Primeval Bounty:rate3.5:: Another superstar card. Basically the green planeswalker we are missing for this deck, except we can activate all three ability's in one turn. Another really good card for those Midrange decks, slightly worse in the control games but I could still see bringing it in from the sideboard.
Underworld Connections Great sideboard card, we need to take card advantage anywhere we can get it. Another way this deck can out grind the midrange mirrors is with this card. It will refill our hand against control, all and all a pretty good sideboard option.
Plansewalker:
Vraska, the Unseen Pretty solid walker, I see her more as SB materiel than main deck. Good in the midrange and control matchups for sure.
Garruk Caller of Beasts Unfortunately we cant take full advantage of Garruk, I wouldnt recommend any copies.
Sample Decklist!
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Boon Satyr
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Spells:
2 Putrefy
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Selesnya Charm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Heroes Downfall
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Lands:
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
2 Temple of Silence
1 Selesnya Guildgate
5 Forest
4 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Golgari Charm
2 Vraska, the Unseen
2 Sin Collector
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Obzedat Ghost Council
2 Underworld Connections
Strategy & Matchups
I talked earlier about how this deck can play a roll of aggressive, midrange, and controlly. Here we will break down exactly how you know what roll to play and against what matchups.
Against Aggro:
Against the Aggro matchup we want to be the control deck. We have such a solid late game and large creatures that we can finish the aggro decks fairly easily in the mid to late game. You want to kill off their early threats as soon as possible, with either removal or chump blocking. Dont be afraid to block.
In game one you have to realize that you are the control deck. Block when it good, and sometimes just block to conserve your life total until you can land an Elspeth, or Blood Baron. With cards like Loxodon Smiter, and Advent of the Wurm we should not have a hard time to outclass their creatures. For game two, I would take out 2 Elspeths, 1 Boon Satyr, and go +2 Whip of Erebos, +1 Obzedat Ghost Council. Same thing as game one except we have much better tools in Whip to help stabilize our life total. Also depending on what aggro deck it is, Lifebane Zombie could be an inclusion, due to sniping out Ghor Clan Rampagers, and other threats. If you do, you can take out more Boon Satyrs.
Against Midrange:
Against Control:
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sin Collector
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
5 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Silence
3 Advent of the Wurm
2 Doom Blade
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Shadowborn Demon
1 Sin Collector
2 Underworld Connections
3 Unflinching Courage
1 Doom Blade
2 Golgari Charm
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
Upddates to the sample list:
-2 Archangel of Thune
+2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
For the SB
-3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
-2 Unflinching Courage
+1 Vraska, the Unseen
+2 Whip of Erebos
+2 Underworld Connections
I agree that is a very good interaction, and would be very difficult for any deck to deal with. Even if he does get removed, we get a 4/2 Boon Satyr left behind. Seems pretty good.
4 overgrown tomb
4 temple garden
4 godless shrine
4 temple of silence
4 forest
3 swamps
2 mutavault
Creatures: 20
2 scavenging ooze
4 gyre sage
4 loxodon smiter
4 desecration demon
4 blood baron of vizkopa
2 angel of serenity
3 thoughtseize
2 read the bones
2 abrupt decay
1 doom blade
2 devour flesh
2 hero's downfall
1 putrefy
Enchantments: 2
2 whip of erberos
1 thoughtseize
2 duress
2 underworld connections
4 voice of resurgence
2 doom blade
2 golgari charm
1 angel of serenity
1 vraska, the unseen
The deck loses quite a lot of life with 12 shocks, 3 thoughtseize, and 2 read the bones. That's why it's necessary to have a minimum of 8 sources of lifegain to make sure you don't kill yourself and can actually comeback from an aggro onslaught. The deck run's 8 kill spells, which might end up not being enough depending on how aggressive the format turns out to be. In reality it's closer to 11 ways to remove the opponents threats, since thoughtseize can preemptively remove one. I really like whip of erebos as most of my threat are pretty big so the lifegain is pretty significant. It also does a good job of imitating AoS without having to run 3+ copies of AoS. Of course both are good so I play both.
I like gyre sage over elvish mystic or sylvan caryatid, as it provides ramp while being a growing threat. Of course gyre sage requires a certain number of creatures to be effective. Loxodon smiter and desecration demon are natural inclusions as they will consistently be able to trigger evolve while also being efficient threats.
Scavenging ooze might seem counter-intuitive with 2 whip of erebos and 2 AoS, but enough creatures end up in the GY that the 3 coexist without any real discord.
Sb is really rough but it's a starting point. Suggestions would for that (and the deck in general) would be greatly appreciated (=
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Silence
2x Seleysna Guildgate
2x Golgari Guildgate
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
3x Sylvan Cryatid
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Fleecemane Lion
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Baleful Eidolon
2x Abhorrent Overlord
2x Whip of Erebos
Spells
2x Putrefy
4x Advent of the Wurn
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Seleysna Charm
1x Hero's Downfall
I would cut 2 putrefy before I cut a doom blade for 2 hero's demise, as you want to cut card with the same CMC. I also don't think archangel of thune is doing enough in your build. You're not going to have out more than 2 guys + archangel (unless you want to run into a sweeper), and you're guys are naturally pretty solid creatures on their own so the +1+1 counters don't add much. It's also doesn't do anything with sylvan caryatid. If you are set on playing archangel I would suggest playing 4 elvish mystic and 4 gyre sage, as sage has synergy with the counters and elvish mystic actually wants to be pumped up. I'd also suggest adding banisher 3 or so banisher priest, as that's a creature that has a sweet effect and would love to get +1+1 counters so it could actually tango in battle. Personally I'd rather run a full playset of bloodbaron of vizkopa before I ran any archangel.
Why no thoughtseize? It's one of the most powerful cards available to junk. I'd also shy away from baleful eidolon, as that card is very underpowered and should really only be played in limited. I'd suggest either more ramp or card draw (underworld connections/read the bones) or thoughtseize. I also really do recommend people play gyre sage over sylvan caryatid in junk builds with 20 or so creatures. The possible payoff of getting multiple mana from one dork and another huge threat just by playing threats is worth playing over caryatid imho.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
Updated 11/01/13
-->Standard:
:symwg::symwg::symwg: Aggressive Midrange
:symu::symu::symu: Devotion
-->Modern:
:symwg::symrg::symug: Kiki-Jiki Pod
:0mana::symur::0mana: Affinity
and Cryatid can't be doom bladed, or abupt decayed, or hero's downfall, etc.
I think if Junk Mid uses whip they should also do Lifebane Zombie. There is already a commitment to black to get the whip out. Whipping the zombie gets his effect, gains you 3 life (enough for thoughtsieze or a shockland or read the bones) and its an evasive 3 damage.
I fell like the biggest problem with Obzedat is the mana cost, I want to be able to rely on my threats as much as possible, and if I am worried about being able to cast him that could pose a problem. I do think Blood Baron would be very good though.
I'm pretty intrested in what list you have been testing
Yeah I agree and changed he sample deck to support this. I do feel like Archangel might have a place in the SB, or some other builds that are more life gain based with cards like Trostani. As for a general insane win con, I think Blood Baron is the best fit in Junk, especially with Boon Satyr. Their interaction is just insane. Cant wait to suit up a Blood Baron with that guy.
First off I would like to apologize for my little out burst on your Primer. It was a rough day, hopefully you can understand.
Anyway, thank you so much! I appreciate that a lot. As your testing goes I would be very interested to see what you have to say, and change to the list. I could probably get behind a 3rd Blood Baron, but I am not sure what we can trim. What do you think?
Honestly I like Vraska, for the Midrange matchups, and def Control. I could see her not being super amazing. She will need a lot more testing, and the right number in the board will probably 0-1. She is just another must answer threat for those decks. Another removal spell that stays on the field is very good as well.
I agree that Lion does not fit in these type of lists, but I disagree on Smiter. The major problem with your idea is mana. You want GG, BB, into BBWW. There is no way a mana base can support that. I wouldnt really want a 2GG, sharing my four drop slot with a 2BB, then trying to cast 1WWBB. Like I have said before this deck relies on constancy. With that kind of curve it just wouldnt happen. I do like Whip, and probably Obzedat in the SB though for sure.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Centaur Healer
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Elvish Mystic
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Instant
3 Advent of the Wurm
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
3 Read the Bones
Enchantment
1 Primeval Bounty
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sin Collector
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Underworld Connections
1 Hero's Downfall
My list, a lot different than OP's, but has been incredibly solid so far. I've built the MB to be very resistant to aggro(and thus the SB for control/mid) because that's typically where G1 is the hardest, and it can sneak out G1 wins against control a lot of the time, depending on how things go, but its focused around aggro.
I don't know why everyone is neglecting Centaur Healer all of the sudden. He's without a doubt one of the best creatures in the deck. This new standard is so shock-centric (and of course aggro) that that 3 life goes a long way to keeping us alive. Vs. Control + Midrange if we don't need the life it's an easy swap out for Lifebane Zombie, Sin Collector, or Ooze.
I don't really like Boon Satyr. The bestow onto BBV was always nice in testing, but generally without bestow it was just a crappy flash-blocker. The bestow is a bit overcosted to use, I'd rather see him in a full aggro list. Loxodon Smiter and Advent of the Wurm both out perform him, and I already discussed Centaur Healer.
Another card I don't like in this deck is Voice of Resurgence. He's just not doing enough vs. aggro, and they can play around him in control/midrange. 2-for-1 is nice but it keeps feeling like a crappy Strangleroot Geist.
Whip of Erebos is nice for the lifelink, surely, but I don't know if I have enough targets for it. I might try it back out again since my list has changed a lot since I last tried it.
Haven't tried out Elspeth that much, I just find it gets too hated out. Dropping it for 6 then it eating a counterspell or Hero's Downfall is super depressing.
My in-depthish guide can be found here for my version:
Username: Cabz
I personally like Chant because it's like drawing an extra card each turn and if you're playing Scavenging Ooze, you can to an extent "fix" which card you get back. Also recycling cards is always great.
But I do see the benefit of Bounty of giving every card you play additional value and can start giving benefits straight away instead of having to wait a turn and potentially get blown out by enchantment hate.
T2
Commander
WGCaptain SisayWG
The reason I like Bounty over Chant is because you can get multiple triggers off it in one turn. Making even land drops more valuable in the grind, and race situations. Making your creatures bigger while killing one of theirs, and getting 2 creatures for one is awesome. I think it is just way better.
I see what you're saying re Obzedat/Whip, and whilst i wouldn't advocate playing 2/3 of each both as one of's they are both so good against certain decks that they have to be considered imo, Whip especially as its good in more than one match up
Ive been testing a junk list for the past 3 weeks and it has been very successful against old and new standard decks alike. Ill post a list eventually.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Boon Satyr
4 Desecration Demon
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Planeswalker (2)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Instant (7)
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Putrefy
1 Hero's Downfall
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Godless Shrin
2 Temple of Silence
1 Selesnya Guildgate
5 Forest
3 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Primeval Bounty
2 Underworld Connections
3 Golgari Charm
2 Vraska the Unseen
3 Thoughtseize
Seems pretty standard. I am liking it so far, both playing it and playing against it. There was input from the others team up and prep with and this was kind of where your list led us, not many changes at all which was pretty surprising. I expected it to be ripped apart by the others. There was a more Whip oriented list, but we turned it down, it was running Salvages and Whips and we just did not like it too much.
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Desecration Demon
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
//Instant (11)
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Devour Flesh
1 Doom Blade
1 Golgari Charm
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Putrefy
1 Ultimate Price
2 Whip of Erebos
//Sorcery (5)
1 Duress
1 Read the Bones
3 Thoughtseize
//Land (25)
4 Forest
4 Godless Shrine
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Rogue's Passage
7 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
The trick is to have a answer to almost everything.