I agree.. Reckoner would be awesome if we still had the consistent manabase pre-rotation.. but it is cause for concern.
I playtested the caryatids with reckoners and it did smoothe things out, but weighed the deck down quite a bit. I think the smart choice is actually the Loxodons at this point. They only require 1 of each mana source, are uncounterable, and a 4/4...
On a side note.. I know its way to early to tell, but how do you feel naya stacks up against selesnaya... The w/g deck is aweful fast...
I dont find the GW deck to be any faster than us and we have walkers that they have to deal with. And stormbreath Dragon blocks all their guys except the advent of the wurm.
I dont find the GW deck to be any faster than us and we have walkers that they have to deal with. And stormbreath Dragon blocks all their guys except the advent of the wurm.
Really? Have you built one yourself recently? Its quite a bit faster, it just lacks the flexability and removal Naya has.
Like you list Cabs, but i would think a playset of magma jets would be good. ping some blockers and scry for setups. 1 less boros, lion, and smiter perhaps
for the more planeswalker heavy lists, wouldn't elspeth work better with xenagos? with her ability to vomit 3 1/1 tokens on the field, he could ramp into lots of things reasonably quickly.
the more i think about it though, maybe it's probably better in a non domri build although we would be using a higher creature count than normal. hmmm i don't know really which would be best. with or without domri.
People have tried without domri but I think thats 100% wrong. Domri has been a card thats proven is wait in almost all matchups(aside from the blistering fast aggro matchups like blitz/bant auras). People will do some crazy things to get her off the field and if they dont domri takes over games.
Which all of our planeswalkers can do to a certain extent except the other 2 are more matchup dependent if they take over a game. This is what in my opinon every list should start with
I think that is the core to any Domri Naya deck. The 4-ofs listed are pretty critical to our strategy. We play a very Zooish style deck with a higher curve than most zoo decks of the past.
I would also play 4 mana dorks in the 60 as well. Up to you which ones you prefer. Ether it be Elvish Mystic or Caryatid is up to you.
Edit: I also have thought of cutting the mana dorks and play Experiment One and go on the aggro sick curve plan.
1. I'm not sure yet, but Mystic does power out a turn earlier Smiter, Boon Satyr, etc. and I think that is pretty valuable. He chumps block later too. I wouldnt run Dryad Militant ever, but Experiment One is consideration for that slot.
Why not ever? And I actually dropped my recokoners and mana dorks and instead run expirments ones and dryads to keep it fast and consistent. However a turn 2 loxodon does sound sweet.
2. Boros Charm first off has multiple modes, saving some value creatures with the indestructible mode, and the double strike mode can do upwards of 8-10 damage with combat tricks whichi s way more than any burn. The 4 damage is the least used mode but can be used as a finisher.
Thanks for pointing this out. I never really considered the charms, and may now sub them for some burn. They are versatile. If you had to use the or the Selesnya charms... which would you use?
3. I'm running 4 scry lands, and yeah they can be a little slow but honestly they make up for it by tucking excess lands later in the game.
Noted.
4. Boon Satyr is a card I wasn't confident about until I actually used it. It's amazing. It can be an early beater with 4 power if needed, it can be a flash-blocker at times, but most of all it can be a huge buff for any of the creatures that is also a flash combat trick. It's really useful.
Ok... i dont find him awesome.. at all. First he required 2 green in a 3 color deck with limited resources. Secondly, who really leaves 3 mana open for a possible block in an aggro deck? Thirdly, if you did use him to block he would most certainly die due to his 2 toughness, his bestow costs wayyy to much, and loxodon is a 4/4 uncounterable for the same cost, and reckoner.. is well reckoner
On Dryad Militant: Her ability is now useless with no real way to flash back cards, and a 2/1 for 1 mana is not really the type of beater that is useful. It can literally be blocked by anything. I would even consider Soldier of the Pantheon before her. Experiment One can get up to 4/4 or possibly 5/5 in the deck which makes him a very big consideration.
On Selesnya Charm: I use both the Boros Charms and the Selesnya Charms. They are both very useful. Selesnya Charm is more useful of a combat trick typically if your creature is blocked and Boros Charm if it goes unblocked, both of which happen in the game. Half the time I use them both and slam the opponent for 12 damage+.
On Boon Satyr: 2 Green is no problem at all, especially with Elvish Mystics. Smiter is always in the deck and leaving 3 mana open and casting him during the combat phase/end of turn is no different than using 3 mana to cast a Smiter or Reckoner on your own turn. I agree that Reckoner is better vs. aggro and often times Satyr is sideboarded out for Reckoner in that matchup, but I don't think Reckoner is mainboard material just because he is generally quite awful vs. control + midrange.
Don't underestimate the Bestow either. yes it costs 5 mana, but with mana dorks that's really 4 mana and it enables super awesome combat tricks in response to blocks or burn. Plus if that creature dies he still sticks around. Valuetown.
People have tried without domri but I think thats 100% wrong. Domri has been a card thats proven is wait in almost all matchups(aside from the blistering fast aggro matchups like blitz/bant auras). People will do some crazy things to get her off the field and if they dont domri takes over games.
Which all of our planeswalkers can do to a certain extent except the other 2 are more matchup dependent if they take over a game. This is what in my opinon every list should start with
I think that is the core to any Domri Naya deck. The 4-ofs listed are pretty critical to our strategy. We play a very Zooish style deck with a higher curve than most zoo decks of the past.
I would also play 4 mana dorks in the 60 as well. Up to you which ones you prefer. Ether it be Elvish Mystic or Caryatid is up to you.
Edit: I also have thought of cutting the mana dorks and play Experiment One and go on the aggro sick curve plan.
Voice is hardly "core" in my mind. We don't run enough removal protection to properly punish decks trying to deal with the token, nor do we purposely overextend our board in order to maximize the body of the token. He's sideboard material for naya, and I've seen a lot of people simply disregard ooze despite the fact that he's empirically better than voice against aggro and midrange.
Ghor-Clan is fine, I guess. I don't run him, as I want polukranos way more than I want a 4/4, and I think that his bloodrush ability is no longer relevant for a deck that's more often the control than the beatdown against the field of other decks.
Game 1 vs Red/Green Midrange 2-0. - This was simple and straight to the point. Experiment One is a MUST in this deck. Had two on the field at 4/4 doing work. Deck performed wonderfully.
Game 2 vs Izzet 2-0- Easily over took with Blood-rushed Reckoners. Domris card drawing capabilities really came in handy. Also mortars worked will against flying creatures.
Game 3 vs Selesnaya 2-0. I was worried about this game. Selesnaya performed very well and is a good match up versus this deck. At one point he had two worms, and kept rootborn defensing. However, with the boros, loxodons, and fleecemanes, I eventually overcame with some help from the charms. Also...in game 1 scavenging ooze was PIVOTAL. To be able to pump him up and gain life back really helped me out. Game two I was able to use domris ultimate with 5 creatures on the board for a win.
Game 4 versus Obezodot/Desecration demon deck 0-2.... Game one, got him down to 1 life even though he kept gaining life off the damn ghost council. Game two, got him down to 5 thanks to the rampagers...
To be honest.. i lost game 4 due to player error. First of all I would attack with loxodons, and then bloodrush him when he blocked with the desecration demons with a domri out, and i forgot to use his fight ability which would of effectively done 8 damage and killed him.... on both games... Do not forget about this ability.
Also, I didnt know i was going to play standard so i didnt have a sideboard. That being said... We really want to sideboard chained to the rocks and other removal in order to get ride of cards like obzedot and demon.. those are the only issues i had and i could of easily overcame with the right sideboard.
Now for the deck tech.. I originally had the Dryad Militants instead of oozes... They are a waste of time.. The only one drop that we should utilize are the experiment ones, and they do serious work. I replaced them with oozes and the oozes performed wonderfully and really brought alot of power to the deck.
Scry Lands: Only ran 3, and when i got one I had no issue at all. As a matter of fact.. even playing a boros every game I had absolutely no mana issues.
Charms... The 6 spells are a must... I really dont know what to sacrifice when i get my other domri and ooze... but they all were game-breaking and absolutely necessary.
Considering you have 6 Boris charms in that list, seems easy enough to drop 2 from the siedeboard, move 2 voices out of the main, and then you have room for the domri and dragon.
Again, the manabase is just making me cry. 5 forests in a deck with reckoners is just bad math, no other way to put it.
Hi Everyone. I figured I would throw my list out that I just started testing. I don't play standard often, but my local gaming store is putting up a from the vault 20 as a prize for the Theros gameday and I want to win it :). Here is the list so far:
From casual testing, it has done well. It went 2-0 against a pre-rotation trading post deck and 4-2 against a post-rotation American planeswalker control deck. I do want to emphasize how good I think Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is. He is amazing against both mid-range and control strategies. Whenever I cast him against those decks, the game is over. He should be considered in your builds if he's not already.
Here some of the stats breakdown for those interested:
Maindeck Curve
1. 4
2. 9
3. 11
4. 7
5. 3
6. 2
Maindeck mana symptoms (with boros reckoner counting as a half for each)
Green: 26
Red: 25.5
White: 16.5
Lands Mana Producing Symbols
Green: 15
Red: 14
White: 11
On paper I think my build is good, in general, against control and aggro strategies but other mid-range decks could be a problem. This is one of the reasons I have Tajic, Blade of the Legion in the maindeck and the four Banisher Priest and two Mizzium Mortars in the side. Pithing Needle is in the side as a catch all for various strategies including planeswalkers and Maze's End.
Any thoughts on the deck would be appreciated. I'm going to continue testing until gameday and seeing some of the early results from standard roll in.
Considering you have 6 Boris charms in that list, seems easy enough to drop 2 from the siedeboard, move 2 voices out of the main, and then you have room for the domri and dragon.
Again, the manabase is just making me cry. 5 forests in a deck with reckoners is just bad math, no other way to put it.
it doesnt matter how many sources i have. There are 16 green sources and only a single green one-drop. And then 19 sources that can cast reckoner...How is that bad math?
And if i could reiterate, I played 8 games with a reckoner played every game with 0 mana issues.
And the sideboard was obviously typo, so now there are not 6 boros charms lol. Moving voices out of the main is not even an option..
Ok so I edited my deck a little bit from fnm and a big local tournament.
-2 Chandra
+2 Mizzium Mortars which I was talkinga bout already.
+2 Scavenging Ooze in the board.
One thing I learned is that selesnya charm is a hell of a card.
Xenagos was a little dissapointing today, but did fine at FNM. My lost today was
1. GW aggro
2. Jund Midrange
3. Monowhite Humans
Against GW he just had and ripped the sickness. nothing I could do. Game 1 against jund her had an answer for everything anda scooze that toke over the game. game 2 I mull to 6 keep a two lander and never draw a third.
Against Monowhite, We get into the late game and im just ripping lands gmes 2 and 3. Luck was most def not on my side.
I personally think we can go down to 23 lands. That how many I played pre-rotation and it was fine.
I played all of the games against a Junk midrange deck my friend built. I have a couple of observations:
1. After playing a good amount of games with the deck, the mana base does feel iffy. I'll echo the concern about playing Boros Reckoner in the deck. It's risky. Against his deck, the card was amazing, when I could actually cast it.
2. Stormbreath Dragon is the real deal and is very good against G/W midrange strategies.
3. Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a problem card against my build. Make sure you have some sort of answer to it in your sideboard.
4. Tajic, Blade of the Legion felt underwhelming against his deck, even though I initially included the card to be good against other midrange strategies. I'm probably going to take them out. I want to add a couple of copies of Mizzium Mortars main, but then my creature count gets below where I would like it for Domri.
Overall, not exactly sure, but I believe I went either 6-4 or 7-3 against his build. We kind of switched up between main deck or with sideboard. The Banisher Priest were very good against his build coming out of the sideboard.
I dropped the 1 drops because I was tired of mws screwing my mana over. This works pretty well. MD is geared against Blood Baron, with Kalonian Tuskers instead of Voice of Resurgences. 1 Xenagos probably belongs in the MD somewhere, but I can't figure where.
Just posting this here before I disappear for another rotation. Too much real life to do.
I played this exact 75 at FNM last night and I proceeded to go 4-0 and going first at my local game store. Here is a quick explanation of my card choices and then a review on my games:
Card Analysis:
(Manabase Overall): I was especially hesitant on playing to the temples because of my fear on falling too far behind because of them coming into play tapped. After a convincing argument from a fellow Domri Naya player, I decided to pick them up before it started and they were great. Scrying and having Domri is great and it really helps smooth out the deck alot with the drawback being alot smaller than I have originally intended so I'm happy with the land base.
Elvish Mystic: Relatively easy inclusion, I don't want to go all in aggro with Experiment One and having a turn 2 Domri Rade is a very real and powerful thing.
Voice of Resurgence: Another solid inclusion that has really gotten worse due to an increase in ways to deal with it in Last Breath and Anger of the Gods. Even Glare of Heresy is a solid answer so I can see a shift of the power level of Voice, but it is still a strong card in its own and deserves its spot in the deck.
Fleecemane Lion: Watchwolf with monstrosity, and a beautiful pair of locks to die for. Jokes aside, the monstrosity making it virtually undealable with is a great addition and more relevant than I thought. I'm a big fan of this card, but it can be a little underwhelming at times. Still, the strong body and relevant ability qualifies itself in the deck.
Boros Reckoner: Needs no introduction. Good card is good.
Loxodon Smiter: See Boros Reckoner. (I hope someone makes me discard this with thoughtseize)
Ghor-Clan Rampager: This guy is an absolute truck and helps us fight through Desecration demon and connect against Elspeth, Sun's Champion amongst other applications. Originally I thought this spot was going to be taken by Polukranos, World Eater but I like Ramapager alot more because of how useful it is at helping us fight through larger creatures at an efficient mana cost. This could be a good spot for Mr. World Eater, but as it is, I will keep the rampagers.
Stormbreath Dragon: Yea... This guy is nuts. He will be a pillar of the format, and he will kill many people to keep that title. At least wizards gave us Thundermaw Hellkite's cousin.
Scavenging Ooze: Great way to recover from a Supreme Verdict and just a great way to disrupt decks trying to use Whip of Erebos. Has been around and needs no introduction, he is a solid role player.
Mizzium Mortars: A card I have been somewhat disappointed with, its not bad by any means but perhaps its just personal experience. I don't have a great analysis of this card due to just how my games turned out, but I expect this to stay for awhile. Its great in the midrange match-ups and we need a strong answer to Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
Domri Rade: This is good. Carry on.
FNM REPORT: 9/28
Round 1: Unfortunately, I played against a kid with little experience and just started playing. He was playing a very casual pyromancer deck which I quickly overwhelmed. Not much to say here.
Round 2: I played against a friend trying out a mono-black deck consisting of Desecration demon, Lifebane Zombie, Liliana of the Dark Realms, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Alongside a Whip of Erebos he got off to a commanding start with Lifebane Zombie taking my Voice of Resurgence. Things started to calm after I was able to keep a Domri active after killing his Lifebane. He proceeded to get stuck on 4 mana and only had a demon. I was able to kill it with charm and my offensive soon overwhelmed him. Game 2 was much of the same, except he was forced to mull to 5 but still had a strong hand. He had lifebane, but it was truly his only gas. He stopped a fresh Stormbreath with Doom Blade, but he again struggled on mana and couldn't get to the Corrupt sitting in his hand to kill me off.
Round 3: Here I played against my friend who was also on Domri Naya. This time I was at the disadvantage with a mull to 5 on the play. I kept Stormbreath, Loxodon Smiter, Mystic, and two lands. While I landed mystic and was able to follow it up with smiter, he just had a fleecemane and a mystic. I was able to draw some lands and a 2nd Stormbreath which meant I landed a dragon on turn 4 and bashed. He didn't have much action and only played land go. I cast the second dragon and he just shakes his head. I asked later what he kept and he said he had 2 Selesnya charms but wasn't drawing any business. Game 2, I rock the nut hand. With a turn 2 domri followed up with a reckoner and Stormbreath, things weren't good for my counterpart who was struggling to keep up after my Reckoner takes out 2 of his guys. He ultimately crumbles because I use the dragon to finish him off. Here, I think I got really fortunate game 1 because of how well positioned my hand was to take the game if I just hit my lands. Being mana screwed early on is a lot better than being flooded just due to probability. I got the better odds.
Round 4: Up against a well known player at my LGS, I was pretty nervous. He was playing an Esper Trading Post and it was chalk full of Supreme Verdict and surprisingly, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. I was happy to see her see play in such capable hands, but unhappy to have it cast against me. Game one was a strong start for me, I had a turn two voice and a turn three smiter which he had to respond to with a verdict. With him tapped out, I went for Domri and he couldn't effectively answer it. The game dragged on for awhile afterwards but I just had too much gas. Game two he cast a turn three ashiok, and I knew I was in trouble with my slow start. I only had a voice and a mystic which wasn't enough to stop his ashiok from ticking up. He stopped my offensive and was even able to monstrous my own fleecemane lion due to his prophetic prism! It was a pretty big blow-out. Game 3 turned out to be a much different story. He mulled to 6 and I had a strong start again with a voice on turn two followed by a reckoner on turn 3. He detention sphere'd my reckoner, but my pressure didn't relent. I had two stormbreath dragons ready to meet him head on and he couldn't find an answer for both.
Ashiok against an empty board is one of the scariest turn 3 plays an opponent can do to a lot of decks right now. Glad you had such success at the FNM, but I have a couple questions -
1. Did mystic end up being a difference maker in terms of aggression? Was it ever a liability in terms of being a topdeck?
2. I know you didn't play against any aggro, but was the light amount of removal mainboard ever an issue?
3. What did Chandra and ruric thar ever come in for?
@ Gangam Style. I pretty much place that exact decklist this Friday and went 3-1 with the inclusion of Experiment Ones and Boros Charms.
How do you feel about only having 4 removal spells? Do you feel the deck could benefit from having a pair of Boros Charms?
Also, I see you included the mystics over the experiments keeping your deck abit less aggro. Do you feel the extra mana really made that significant of a difference? I know in my experience at fnm the experiment ones were easily buffed at least once a turn, and the regeneration came in quite hand. As a matter of fact, they had a profound effect on each game I played.
I am considering dropping 4x Experiment Ones in order to add a 4th Smiter, Ooze, and 2 Boros Charms... ExpOne's are amazing, and they have never let me down.. but I really need to make room for the Boros Charm's and really don't know what else to consider.
ExpOnes require turn 1 green, which I only have 5 sources of... so to me its the only logical decision. Truth is, In order to play it on turn one it would cost me two life, and on turn two I would play a VoR, Ooze, or Lion over it anyday.
I could also remove them for 3x Boon Satyr, and 1x Ooze... But I am really trying to squeeze the Boros Charms in there.
My only lose was to a teammate and one of the better control players in my area. He also ripped a pretty sick sphinx's rev when he was at 4, I had boon satyr out, and he was in top deck mode.
Its also really weird sideboarding for any matchup with elspeth, because ghor-clan is pretty good against her but not the rest of the deck and can open yourself to getting 2 for 1'd too many times.
And last round I ID'd for top 8.
My wins were; Wescore GW Aggro, GRDW(RDW splashing green), Grixis Control
For the win-a-playset tournament I played the same list but -1 Chandra, +1 Stormbreath Dragon.
Sideboard all stars;
Mizzium Mortars
Glare of Heresey
Those were the two that did really good. Here is my sideboard for reference for the tournaments
Im def moving the mizzium mortars to the mainboard. I brought them in every matchup and they are rarely dead. Only against control they are truly dead. And even still game 1 you still have some targets.
I never really had mana problems but i am swapping out 1 Temple of Triumph for 1 Temple of Abadon.
All the cards did really well. Xenagos was the less impressive and usually got sideded out since I didnt play against any control, and thats really the main matchup he shines, maybe he will go as a 2-of to the board to fight against control. In his place I'd say 3 selesnya charms or boros charm would go. or maybe a 2/1 split.
Also trostani was AMAZING. She survives all the red based burn and Anger of the gods, and selesnya charm. I believe she warrants at least being talked about and tried.
Also trostani was AMAZING. She survives all the red based burn and Anger of the gods, and selesnya charm. I believe she warrants at least being talked about and tried.
What role did trostani play in your build? I was under the impression that she was mainly just used for her populate ability.
Also, how do you feel about your mystics? Do you still feel they should have a spot in your 75?
What role did trostani play in your build? I was under the impression that she was mainly just used for her populate ability.
Also, how do you feel about your mystics? Do you still feel they should have a spot in your 75?
Mystics are the reason you are able to get ahead in some matchups. There is times where I have drawn all 4 of my mystics, those are the best games. But the upside they give you def outweighs the downside. Turn 2 domri is back breaking against control. Turn 2 smiter against aggro decks are really good. Prtty much being able to play your entire curve a turn eariler than usual is amazing. and sometimes I go like temple garden turn 1, pay 2 elvish mystic and then play a turn 2 Voice and a Temple. No tempo lost fromt the temple at all.
Trostani was oddly enough used mostly for her populate and being able to pull ahead in aggro mirrors. Every time I had a trostani out I had a voice elemental token out that Iw as populating. That may make me bias towards her and she was a last minute thing because I didnt have enough dragons. I think she warrants play in the 75 but if/when I get another dragon she is coming out without a doubt.
God, the Dega/Mythic midrange matchup is a beating... gonna need to develop a gameplan against them if the deck gets more popular. All of their dudes match up favorably against most of ours, and they have enough hard removal to keep us from maintaining aggression, so it's extremely hard to force them into situations where domri can actually act as removal.
Luckily it's not a very popular deck yet, but I may be altering my sideboard to include more glares of heresy and/or Celestial Flare, though flare is a nightmare on the manabase.
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I dont find the GW deck to be any faster than us and we have walkers that they have to deal with. And stormbreath Dragon blocks all their guys except the advent of the wurm.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Really? Have you built one yourself recently? Its quite a bit faster, it just lacks the flexability and removal Naya has.
What list exactly are you talking about?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Wecoes Selesnaya List:
4x Dryad Militant
4x Experiment One
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Judge's Familiar
3x Loxodon Smiter
9x Forest
9x Plains
4x Temple Garden
Spells
3x Rootborn Defenses
4x Selesnya Charm
4x Advent of the Wurm
4x Call of the Conclave
This list is hella fast and surprisingly versatile. The only thing i feel it lacks is removal.
Grand Arbiter
Omnath
Skittles
People have tried without domri but I think thats 100% wrong. Domri has been a card thats proven is wait in almost all matchups(aside from the blistering fast aggro matchups like blitz/bant auras). People will do some crazy things to get her off the field and if they dont domri takes over games.
Which all of our planeswalkers can do to a certain extent except the other 2 are more matchup dependent if they take over a game. This is what in my opinon every list should start with
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Voice of Resurrgence
I think that is the core to any Domri Naya deck. The 4-ofs listed are pretty critical to our strategy. We play a very Zooish style deck with a higher curve than most zoo decks of the past.
I would also play 4 mana dorks in the 60 as well. Up to you which ones you prefer. Ether it be Elvish Mystic or Caryatid is up to you.
Edit: I also have thought of cutting the mana dorks and play Experiment One and go on the aggro sick curve plan.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
On Dryad Militant: Her ability is now useless with no real way to flash back cards, and a 2/1 for 1 mana is not really the type of beater that is useful. It can literally be blocked by anything. I would even consider Soldier of the Pantheon before her. Experiment One can get up to 4/4 or possibly 5/5 in the deck which makes him a very big consideration.
On Selesnya Charm: I use both the Boros Charms and the Selesnya Charms. They are both very useful. Selesnya Charm is more useful of a combat trick typically if your creature is blocked and Boros Charm if it goes unblocked, both of which happen in the game. Half the time I use them both and slam the opponent for 12 damage+.
On Boon Satyr: 2 Green is no problem at all, especially with Elvish Mystics. Smiter is always in the deck and leaving 3 mana open and casting him during the combat phase/end of turn is no different than using 3 mana to cast a Smiter or Reckoner on your own turn. I agree that Reckoner is better vs. aggro and often times Satyr is sideboarded out for Reckoner in that matchup, but I don't think Reckoner is mainboard material just because he is generally quite awful vs. control + midrange.
Don't underestimate the Bestow either. yes it costs 5 mana, but with mana dorks that's really 4 mana and it enables super awesome combat tricks in response to blocks or burn. Plus if that creature dies he still sticks around. Valuetown.
Username: Cabz
Voice is hardly "core" in my mind. We don't run enough removal protection to properly punish decks trying to deal with the token, nor do we purposely overextend our board in order to maximize the body of the token. He's sideboard material for naya, and I've seen a lot of people simply disregard ooze despite the fact that he's empirically better than voice against aggro and midrange.
Ghor-Clan is fine, I guess. I don't run him, as I want polukranos way more than I want a 4/4, and I think that his bloodrush ability is no longer relevant for a deck that's more often the control than the beatdown against the field of other decks.
Went 3-1 and took 3rd of 16, literally playing the deck for the first time ever, with an unfinished decklist.....
3x Boros Reckoner
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Experiment One
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Loxodon Smiter
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Spells = 6
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Selesnya Charm
2x Boros Charm
3x Domri Rade
5x Forest
4x Plains
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple Garden
3x Temple of Abandon
4x Stomping Ground
2x Boros Charm
4x Chained to the Rocks
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Selesnya Charm
Game 1 vs Red/Green Midrange 2-0. - This was simple and straight to the point. Experiment One is a MUST in this deck. Had two on the field at 4/4 doing work. Deck performed wonderfully.
Game 2 vs Izzet 2-0- Easily over took with Blood-rushed Reckoners. Domris card drawing capabilities really came in handy. Also mortars worked will against flying creatures.
Game 3 vs Selesnaya 2-0. I was worried about this game. Selesnaya performed very well and is a good match up versus this deck. At one point he had two worms, and kept rootborn defensing. However, with the boros, loxodons, and fleecemanes, I eventually overcame with some help from the charms. Also...in game 1 scavenging ooze was PIVOTAL. To be able to pump him up and gain life back really helped me out. Game two I was able to use domris ultimate with 5 creatures on the board for a win.
Game 4 versus Obezodot/Desecration demon deck 0-2.... Game one, got him down to 1 life even though he kept gaining life off the damn ghost council. Game two, got him down to 5 thanks to the rampagers...
To be honest.. i lost game 4 due to player error. First of all I would attack with loxodons, and then bloodrush him when he blocked with the desecration demons with a domri out, and i forgot to use his fight ability which would of effectively done 8 damage and killed him.... on both games... Do not forget about this ability.
Also, I didnt know i was going to play standard so i didnt have a sideboard. That being said... We really want to sideboard chained to the rocks and other removal in order to get ride of cards like obzedot and demon.. those are the only issues i had and i could of easily overcame with the right sideboard.
Now for the deck tech.. I originally had the Dryad Militants instead of oozes... They are a waste of time.. The only one drop that we should utilize are the experiment ones, and they do serious work. I replaced them with oozes and the oozes performed wonderfully and really brought alot of power to the deck.
Scry Lands: Only ran 3, and when i got one I had no issue at all. As a matter of fact.. even playing a boros every game I had absolutely no mana issues.
Charms... The 6 spells are a must... I really dont know what to sacrifice when i get my other domri and ooze... but they all were game-breaking and absolutely necessary.
If you have any questions.. feel free to ask.
Again, the manabase is just making me cry. 5 forests in a deck with reckoners is just bad math, no other way to put it.
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
4 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
Creatures (29)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4 Domri Rade
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
Instants (2)
2 Boros Charm
4 Banisher Priest
4 Wear/Tear
2 Boros Charm
3 Pithing Needle
2 Mizzium Mortars
From casual testing, it has done well. It went 2-0 against a pre-rotation trading post deck and 4-2 against a post-rotation American planeswalker control deck. I do want to emphasize how good I think Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is. He is amazing against both mid-range and control strategies. Whenever I cast him against those decks, the game is over. He should be considered in your builds if he's not already.
Here some of the stats breakdown for those interested:
Maindeck Curve
1. 4
2. 9
3. 11
4. 7
5. 3
6. 2
Maindeck mana symptoms (with boros reckoner counting as a half for each)
Green: 26
Red: 25.5
White: 16.5
Lands Mana Producing Symbols
Green: 15
Red: 14
White: 11
On paper I think my build is good, in general, against control and aggro strategies but other mid-range decks could be a problem. This is one of the reasons I have Tajic, Blade of the Legion in the maindeck and the four Banisher Priest and two Mizzium Mortars in the side. Pithing Needle is in the side as a catch all for various strategies including planeswalkers and Maze's End.
Any thoughts on the deck would be appreciated. I'm going to continue testing until gameday and seeing some of the early results from standard roll in.
it doesnt matter how many sources i have. There are 16 green sources and only a single green one-drop. And then 19 sources that can cast reckoner...How is that bad math?
And if i could reiterate, I played 8 games with a reckoner played every game with 0 mana issues.
And the sideboard was obviously typo, so now there are not 6 boros charms lol. Moving voices out of the main is not even an option..
-2 Chandra
+2 Mizzium Mortars which I was talkinga bout already.
+2 Scavenging Ooze in the board.
One thing I learned is that selesnya charm is a hell of a card.
Xenagos was a little dissapointing today, but did fine at FNM. My lost today was
1. GW aggro
2. Jund Midrange
3. Monowhite Humans
Against GW he just had and ripped the sickness. nothing I could do. Game 1 against jund her had an answer for everything anda scooze that toke over the game. game 2 I mull to 6 keep a two lander and never draw a third.
Against Monowhite, We get into the late game and im just ripping lands gmes 2 and 3. Luck was most def not on my side.
I personally think we can go down to 23 lands. That how many I played pre-rotation and it was fine.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
4 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
Creatures (29)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4 Domri Rade
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
Instants (2)
2 Boros Charm
4 Banisher Priest
4 Wear/Tear
2 Boros Charm
3 Pithing Needle
2 Mizzium Mortars
I played all of the games against a Junk midrange deck my friend built. I have a couple of observations:
1. After playing a good amount of games with the deck, the mana base does feel iffy. I'll echo the concern about playing Boros Reckoner in the deck. It's risky. Against his deck, the card was amazing, when I could actually cast it.
2. Stormbreath Dragon is the real deal and is very good against G/W midrange strategies.
3. Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a problem card against my build. Make sure you have some sort of answer to it in your sideboard.
4. Tajic, Blade of the Legion felt underwhelming against his deck, even though I initially included the card to be good against other midrange strategies. I'm probably going to take them out. I want to add a couple of copies of Mizzium Mortars main, but then my creature count gets below where I would like it for Domri.
Overall, not exactly sure, but I believe I went either 6-4 or 7-3 against his build. We kind of switched up between main deck or with sideboard. The Banisher Priest were very good against his build coming out of the sideboard.
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Temple of Triumph
8 Forest
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Boon Satyr
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Advent of the Wurm
1 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Pithing Needle
2 Voice of Resurgence
4 Unflinching Courage
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Assemble the Legion
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I dropped the 1 drops because I was tired of mws screwing my mana over. This works pretty well. MD is geared against Blood Baron, with Kalonian Tuskers instead of Voice of Resurgences. 1 Xenagos probably belongs in the MD somewhere, but I can't figure where.
Just posting this here before I disappear for another rotation. Too much real life to do.
Cheers!
Modern SplinterTwin
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Triumph
4x Temple of Abandon
2x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Boros Reckoner
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Mizzium Mortars
4x Domri Rade
3x Glare of Heresy
2x Wear/Tear
2x Ruric Thar
1x Selesnya Charm
2x Chandra Pyromaster
1x Stormbreath Dragon
I played this exact 75 at FNM last night and I proceeded to go 4-0 and going first at my local game store. Here is a quick explanation of my card choices and then a review on my games:
Card Analysis:
(Manabase Overall): I was especially hesitant on playing to the temples because of my fear on falling too far behind because of them coming into play tapped. After a convincing argument from a fellow Domri Naya player, I decided to pick them up before it started and they were great. Scrying and having Domri is great and it really helps smooth out the deck alot with the drawback being alot smaller than I have originally intended so I'm happy with the land base.
Elvish Mystic: Relatively easy inclusion, I don't want to go all in aggro with Experiment One and having a turn 2 Domri Rade is a very real and powerful thing.
Voice of Resurgence: Another solid inclusion that has really gotten worse due to an increase in ways to deal with it in Last Breath and Anger of the Gods. Even Glare of Heresy is a solid answer so I can see a shift of the power level of Voice, but it is still a strong card in its own and deserves its spot in the deck.
Fleecemane Lion: Watchwolf with monstrosity, and a beautiful pair of locks to die for. Jokes aside, the monstrosity making it virtually undealable with is a great addition and more relevant than I thought. I'm a big fan of this card, but it can be a little underwhelming at times. Still, the strong body and relevant ability qualifies itself in the deck.
Boros Reckoner: Needs no introduction. Good card is good.
Loxodon Smiter: See Boros Reckoner. (I hope someone makes me discard this with thoughtseize)
Ghor-Clan Rampager: This guy is an absolute truck and helps us fight through Desecration demon and connect against Elspeth, Sun's Champion amongst other applications. Originally I thought this spot was going to be taken by Polukranos, World Eater but I like Ramapager alot more because of how useful it is at helping us fight through larger creatures at an efficient mana cost. This could be a good spot for Mr. World Eater, but as it is, I will keep the rampagers.
Stormbreath Dragon: Yea... This guy is nuts. He will be a pillar of the format, and he will kill many people to keep that title. At least wizards gave us Thundermaw Hellkite's cousin.
Scavenging Ooze: Great way to recover from a Supreme Verdict and just a great way to disrupt decks trying to use Whip of Erebos. Has been around and needs no introduction, he is a solid role player.
Selesnya Charm: The more I use this card, the more I fall in love with it. Every ability is incredibly relevant, and killing almost every fatty that gets in our way is just what we need. Be aware: Obzedat, Ghost Council, Desecration Demon, Polukranos, World Eater, Purphoros, God of the Forge, and other duders will start to spring up in the meta-game.
Mizzium Mortars: A card I have been somewhat disappointed with, its not bad by any means but perhaps its just personal experience. I don't have a great analysis of this card due to just how my games turned out, but I expect this to stay for awhile. Its great in the midrange match-ups and we need a strong answer to Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
Domri Rade: This is good. Carry on.
FNM REPORT: 9/28
Round 1: Unfortunately, I played against a kid with little experience and just started playing. He was playing a very casual pyromancer deck which I quickly overwhelmed. Not much to say here.
Round 2: I played against a friend trying out a mono-black deck consisting of Desecration demon, Lifebane Zombie, Liliana of the Dark Realms, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Alongside a Whip of Erebos he got off to a commanding start with Lifebane Zombie taking my Voice of Resurgence. Things started to calm after I was able to keep a Domri active after killing his Lifebane. He proceeded to get stuck on 4 mana and only had a demon. I was able to kill it with charm and my offensive soon overwhelmed him. Game 2 was much of the same, except he was forced to mull to 5 but still had a strong hand. He had lifebane, but it was truly his only gas. He stopped a fresh Stormbreath with Doom Blade, but he again struggled on mana and couldn't get to the Corrupt sitting in his hand to kill me off.
Round 3: Here I played against my friend who was also on Domri Naya. This time I was at the disadvantage with a mull to 5 on the play. I kept Stormbreath, Loxodon Smiter, Mystic, and two lands. While I landed mystic and was able to follow it up with smiter, he just had a fleecemane and a mystic. I was able to draw some lands and a 2nd Stormbreath which meant I landed a dragon on turn 4 and bashed. He didn't have much action and only played land go. I cast the second dragon and he just shakes his head. I asked later what he kept and he said he had 2 Selesnya charms but wasn't drawing any business. Game 2, I rock the nut hand. With a turn 2 domri followed up with a reckoner and Stormbreath, things weren't good for my counterpart who was struggling to keep up after my Reckoner takes out 2 of his guys. He ultimately crumbles because I use the dragon to finish him off. Here, I think I got really fortunate game 1 because of how well positioned my hand was to take the game if I just hit my lands. Being mana screwed early on is a lot better than being flooded just due to probability. I got the better odds.
Round 4: Up against a well known player at my LGS, I was pretty nervous. He was playing an Esper Trading Post and it was chalk full of Supreme Verdict and surprisingly, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. I was happy to see her see play in such capable hands, but unhappy to have it cast against me. Game one was a strong start for me, I had a turn two voice and a turn three smiter which he had to respond to with a verdict. With him tapped out, I went for Domri and he couldn't effectively answer it. The game dragged on for awhile afterwards but I just had too much gas. Game two he cast a turn three ashiok, and I knew I was in trouble with my slow start. I only had a voice and a mystic which wasn't enough to stop his ashiok from ticking up. He stopped my offensive and was even able to monstrous my own fleecemane lion due to his prophetic prism! It was a pretty big blow-out. Game 3 turned out to be a much different story. He mulled to 6 and I had a strong start again with a voice on turn two followed by a reckoner on turn 3. He detention sphere'd my reckoner, but my pressure didn't relent. I had two stormbreath dragons ready to meet him head on and he couldn't find an answer for both.
4-0!
1. Did mystic end up being a difference maker in terms of aggression? Was it ever a liability in terms of being a topdeck?
2. I know you didn't play against any aggro, but was the light amount of removal mainboard ever an issue?
3. What did Chandra and ruric thar ever come in for?
How do you feel about only having 4 removal spells? Do you feel the deck could benefit from having a pair of Boros Charms?
Also, I see you included the mystics over the experiments keeping your deck abit less aggro. Do you feel the extra mana really made that significant of a difference? I know in my experience at fnm the experiment ones were easily buffed at least once a turn, and the regeneration came in quite hand. As a matter of fact, they had a profound effect on each game I played.
But a turn 2 Smiter/Domri is hard to ignore.....
How often did you have problems with a turn one elf? It looks like you only have 8 ways to make green mana on turn one in a 75 card deck.
Good catch. So in all reality, if he was lucky and got a shock land, he would of had to pay two life to cast it...
ExpOnes require turn 1 green, which I only have 5 sources of... so to me its the only logical decision. Truth is, In order to play it on turn one it would cost me two life, and on turn two I would play a VoR, Ooze, or Lion over it anyday.
I could also remove them for 3x Boon Satyr, and 1x Ooze... But I am really trying to squeeze the Boros Charms in there.
I would really appreciate some insight on this.
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Boros Reckoner
4x Experiment One
4x Fleecemane Lion
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Loxodon Smiter
3x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Selesnya Charm
Land
5x Forest
4x Plains
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple Garden
3x Temple of Abandon
4x Domri Rade
2x Boros Charm
4x Chained to the Rocks
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Selesnya Charm
1x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Unflinching Courage
4 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Grounds
4 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Boon Satyr
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Voice of Resurengce
1 Trostani
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Xenagos, the Revealer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
I went 3-1-1
My only lose was to a teammate and one of the better control players in my area. He also ripped a pretty sick sphinx's rev when he was at 4, I had boon satyr out, and he was in top deck mode.
Its also really weird sideboarding for any matchup with elspeth, because ghor-clan is pretty good against her but not the rest of the deck and can open yourself to getting 2 for 1'd too many times.
And last round I ID'd for top 8.
My wins were; Wescore GW Aggro, GRDW(RDW splashing green), Grixis Control
For the win-a-playset tournament I played the same list but -1 Chandra, +1 Stormbreath Dragon.
Sideboard all stars;
Mizzium Mortars
Glare of Heresey
Those were the two that did really good. Here is my sideboard for reference for the tournaments
2 centaur healers
2 glare of heresey
2 destructive reverlry
3 unflinching courage
2 selesnya charm
2 boros charm
Im def moving the mizzium mortars to the mainboard. I brought them in every matchup and they are rarely dead. Only against control they are truly dead. And even still game 1 you still have some targets.
I never really had mana problems but i am swapping out 1 Temple of Triumph for 1 Temple of Abadon.
All the cards did really well. Xenagos was the less impressive and usually got sideded out since I didnt play against any control, and thats really the main matchup he shines, maybe he will go as a 2-of to the board to fight against control. In his place I'd say 3 selesnya charms or boros charm would go. or maybe a 2/1 split.
Also trostani was AMAZING. She survives all the red based burn and Anger of the gods, and selesnya charm. I believe she warrants at least being talked about and tried.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
What role did trostani play in your build? I was under the impression that she was mainly just used for her populate ability.
Also, how do you feel about your mystics? Do you still feel they should have a spot in your 75?
Mystics are the reason you are able to get ahead in some matchups. There is times where I have drawn all 4 of my mystics, those are the best games. But the upside they give you def outweighs the downside. Turn 2 domri is back breaking against control. Turn 2 smiter against aggro decks are really good. Prtty much being able to play your entire curve a turn eariler than usual is amazing. and sometimes I go like temple garden turn 1, pay 2 elvish mystic and then play a turn 2 Voice and a Temple. No tempo lost fromt the temple at all.
Trostani was oddly enough used mostly for her populate and being able to pull ahead in aggro mirrors. Every time I had a trostani out I had a voice elemental token out that Iw as populating. That may make me bias towards her and she was a last minute thing because I didnt have enough dragons. I think she warrants play in the 75 but if/when I get another dragon she is coming out without a doubt.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Luckily it's not a very popular deck yet, but I may be altering my sideboard to include more glares of heresy and/or Celestial Flare, though flare is a nightmare on the manabase.